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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Should Donald Rumsfeld Resign?; Barry Bonds to Face Perjury Charges?
Aired April 13, 2006 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone.
Donald Rumsfeld, the point man for the president and the war in Iraq -- tonight a target, under fire from the same generals who fought the war.
ANNOUNCER: Friendly-fire -- another general weighs in against his old box. Is a rebellion brewing in the ranges?
Mass murder -- six bodies where no one saw it coming. What drove somebody to wipe out two generations of a family?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's in the back of this building laughing at us all.
ANNOUNCER: But there is nothing to laugh about. Trapped inside a wall for nearly two weeks, neighbors fight to keep curiosity from killing Molly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I think they should knock the house down. It would be wonderful if they did something really miraculous and saved this little cat.
ANNOUNCER: Across the country and around the world, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, here's Anderson cooper.
COOPER: Thanks for joining us.
We begin with breaking news tonight and a stunning question: Could one of the greatest sluggers in baseball history wind up in jail? We are talking about San Francisco's Barry Bonds.
In an exclusive report, CNN has learned, a grand jury is considering whether to indict him for perjury. This comes after his testimony in connection with a steroids investigation.
CNN's Ted Rowlands is working his sources. And we are going to check in with him later in the hour for this developing story. But Secretary Rumsfeld begins our program tonight. Today, two more retired generals called for his resignation. Now, remember, military commanders are very careful about speaking out against their civilian bosses, even after they retire, especially during wartime.
That's what makes the growing criticism of Defense Secretary Rumsfeld so remarkable -- six retired generals now and counting.
All angles tonight -- an exclusive interview with the latest general to speak out, Charles Swannack -- also tonight, civilian critics, Republican critics, weighing in against Secretary Rumsfeld. Does it have more to do with presidential politics than military policy?
We begin, however, with a man the White House once again defended today and Barbara Starr's exclusive with the general who says, it is time for him to go.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Major General Charles Swannack retired last year, after commanding the 82nd Airborne Division in Iraq. He's the second combat commander from Iraq calling for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to step down.
MAJOR GENERAL CHARLES SWANNACK (RET.), U.S. ARMY: I feel that he has micromanaged the generals who are leading our forces there to achieve our strategic objective.
I really believe that we need a new secretary of defense.
STARR: Swannack, along with Major General John Riggs, both speaking for the first time today, makes six retired generals who have called for resignation. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff says, generals should speak in private while they still on active duty.
GENERAL PETER PACE, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: We had then and had now every opportunity to speak our minds. And, if we do not, shame on us, because the opportunity is there.
STARR: But generals who want to keep their jobs and get promoted keep quiet. If you don't like the policy, you retire.
SWANNACK: I don't think our generals feel comfortable providing Secretary Rumsfeld their honest beliefs. I think it almost boils down to, explain the party line and stay loyal to me, or you might end up as General Shinseki did, at odds with Secretary Rumsfeld.
STARR: Right before the war, then Army Chief of Staff Eric Shinseki was questioned by senators about troop levels.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, FEBRUARY 25, 2003)
GENERAL ERIC SHINSEKI, U.S. ARMY CHIEF OF STAFF: Something on the order of several hundred thousand soldiers are -- are -- are probably, you know, a figure that would be required.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: Rumsfeld was, by all accounts, furious. The plan was to keep troop levels at a minimum, just 125,000 inside Iraq.
Several current and retired generals say, Rumsfeld's anger at the well-liked Shinseki began the era of bad feelings. After the insurgency erupted, the question never went away: Should the U.S. have sent more troops?
GENERAL ANTHONY ZINNI (RET.), FORMER CENTCOM COMMANDER: I think the biggest mistake was throwing away 10 years worth of planning, plans that had taken into account what we would face in an occupation of Iraq. And it had to be an occupation. We couldn't do it on the cheap, with too few troops.
STARR: Retired General Mike DeLong insists, the war plan was solid, and the secretary's style is tough, but fair.
LIEUTENANT GENERAL MICHAEL DELONG (RET.), FORMER CENTCOM DEPUTY COMMANDER: Dealing with Secretary Rumsfeld is like dealing with a CEO. When -- when you walk in to him, you have got to be prepared. You have got to know what you're talking about. If you don't, you're summarily dismissed.
STARR: Those who call for change see it very differently.
MAJOR GENERAL JOHN BATISTE (RET.), U.S. ARMY: But when decisions are made without taking into account sound military recommendations, sound military decision-making, sound planning, then, we're bound to make mistakes.
STARR: Rumsfeld's predecessor, William Cohen, says there is really just one judgment that counts, for now.
WILLIAM COHEN, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: It's really not a question of how many generals come out and express dissatisfaction. It's a question of whether Secretary Rumsfeld himself feels he can be effective and whether President Bush feels he can be effective.
STARR: Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
COOPER: Well, so far, the answer to that is, the president does think he can be effective.
Donald Rumsfeld came to the job with bold ideas for reshaping the armed forces and a take-no-prisoners attitude. Both have caused a lot of friction. The second just may cost him his job.
More on that now from CNN's Tom Foreman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, the honorable secretary of defense, Donald H. Rumsfeld.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Friends and foes all know Donald Rumsfeld does not easily bend. So, here are some reasons they suggest why he's unlikely to bow under the current battering. Number one, it is not the Rumsfeld way. Rumsfeld takes his critics head on.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Do you think I'm going to stand around reading your books and disputing things in them or validating or not validating?
RUMSFELD: I've got a real daytime job.
RUMSFELD: I mean, you would do nothing else but that, if you did that.
FOREMAN: His political life was built on toughness. Richard Nixon saw it 30 years ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, MARCH 9, 1971)
RICHARD NIXON, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: At least Rummy is tough enough. He's a ruthless little bastard. You can be sure of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOREMAN: Rumsfeld sees it, too.
RUMSFELD: You know, if you do something, somebody is not going to like it. Therefore, you have got a choice. You can go do nothing, or you can go do something, and live with the fact that somebody's not going to like it.
FOREMAN: Number two, the impact on the military. The future of Iraq is uncertain. Osama bin Laden is still free, and Iran is rattling its saber. Some military analysts say Rumsfeld bears some blame. But others say, letting the defense secretary be forced out would send a dangerous signal of weakness to enemies.
Number three, politics -- through Afghanistan and Iraq, Rumsfeld has led this administration's signature initiative, the battle against global terrorism. The White House stands by him and expects the same in return.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president believes Secretary Rumsfeld is doing a very fine job during a challenging period in our nation's history.
FOREMAN: Number four, the opposition -- critics want Rumsfeld out.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: It would energize American forces. It would energize the political environment. Yes, he should step down.
FOREMAN: Political analysts say, attacks on the White House will grow bolder if Rumsfeld blinks.
And number five, personal conviction.
(on camera): Rumsfeld has said many times, this war is difficult, it will take a long time, but it is going well.
(voice-over): He sees newsmakers and news reporters who focus on the negative as mistaken and defeatist.
RUMSFELD: Much of the reporting in the U.S. and abroad has exaggerated the situation. The number of Iraqi deaths had been exaggerated, that is to say, nothing of the apparently inaccurate and harmful reports of U.S. military conduct.
FOREMAN: Simply put, Don Rumsfeld has lost political battles, but it is not his nature to ever go down without a fight.
Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
COOPER: Well, whatever comes of this, the fact that it has come so far is, frankly, staggering.
Generals, some of them fresh from combat in Iraq, speaking out about the man that they served. We thought it deserved some perspective.
Retired General John Batiste commanded the Army's 1st Infantry Division in Iraq. He said he felt Rumsfeld should go for the first time just a couple days ago. General Dan Christman served in Southeast Asia. And CNN's military analyst General David Grange is a veteran of the Army special forces. We spoke to all three of them earlier tonight.
COOPER: General Batiste, we just heard General Peter Pace say that generals had every opportunity to speak their minds. Why do you feel -- I mean, do you feel that was the case? Is that really how it is in the Pentagon?
MAJOR GENERAL JOHN BATISTE (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Anderson, I respect General Pace immensely. And he's right. We do speak our mind, within our culture and within our chain of command.
We speak it. Oftentimes, we're not heard. Oftentimes, we're dismissed. Oftentimes, a senior commander will say, no, it's not going to be that way. At that point, we have two options. We either salute and execute or choose to get out.
In my case, over the past three years, I have been commanding the 1st Infantry Division, hard at work in Kosovo, Turkey, and Iraq. And I stayed with my soldiers.
COOPER: And -- and why come out now and -- and -- and call for the secretary to step down?
BATISTE: I have thought a lot about it. This goes back five years, for me personally, to the day that General Shinseki retired, and the secretary did not attend his retirement ceremony.
COOPER: And -- and you took that as a sign of, what, disrespect?
You know, respect is a two-way street. And I think we deserve a secretary of defense, leadership at the highest level. And civilian control is absolutely paramount. It's important. But we need leadership that understands teamwork, just like we do in the uniformed services, and leadership that doesn't use intimidation and arrogance to accomplish what he's trying to do.
COOPER: General Christman, you're a student of history. Looking back at all of the secretary of defenses who have served...
LIEUTENANT GENERAL DAN CHRISTMAN (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Right.
COOPER: ... have you ever seen a situation like this, where you have so many generals coming forward and saying, it's time for this man to go?
The Office of the Secretary of Defense was created, Anderson, in 1947. There have been 21 SecDefs. I have served under many of them, read the history since the founding the National Security Act there in '47. I cannot ever recall having read or observed personally the kind of depth, and really breadth as well, of criticism of a SecDef. There have been a few here and there, obviously, with Secretary Aspin and some others in the '50s, but this is really very, very broad-based, and, I think, very deep as well.
COOPER: General Grange, there's some in the military concerned about public dissension, especially at a time of war.
Can this be harmful? Can it be a distraction to -- to military leadership, to the civilian leadership at the Pentagon or even the morale of troops?
BRIGADIER GENERAL DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, it can be.
I mean, I just came from a military media conference at one of our installations. And, you know, the -- the younger officers are talking about this, obviously. It does -- it is a distraction. And it has to be fixed, because what this will do, then, is influence the public, the American people, and it will destroy their will to want to continue and accomplish this -- this -- this fight, this war, this victory in Iraq.
And, if we lose the will, we will lose. And, so, these communications, these trust, these loyalty issues have to be resolved in order for us to be successful.
COOPER: General Batiste, you know, we have heard for years now from Secretary Rumsfeld, and also from this administration, that, you know, they go -- they take their cues from military commanders on the ground in Iraq, in terms of truth strength -- truth -- troop strength, what the troops need.
Has that been your experience? Because, I mean, I -- I got to tell you, I read "Cobra II," and -- and it -- it sounds an awful lot like it is coming from the top down. You know, military -- Tommy Franks would suggest a figure, and then Rumsfeld would be like, well, let's talk about half that figure.
BATISTE: Anderson, to talk about where we are today, you got to go back in time and look at the plan that was produced for Iraq, a planning process that ignored what the Central Command had done for 10 years, a planning process that, frankly, ignored the principles of war, which are terribly important.
And the minute we don't pay attention to that, we do it at our own peril.
COOPER: General Batiste, there are probably going to be some who -- who will see this and say, well, look, this is just sort of politics, you know, people in the military griping. They didn't like the downsizing of the Pentagon, or the Army, or the Marines, and -- and sort of they're getting caught up in the -- in this political battle against Rumsfeld.
When you hear that, what do you think?
BATISTE: I would tell you, this has nothing to do with politics. I have been a Republican all my life and voted for President Bush twice.
This is all about taking care of soldiers. This is all about being successful in Iraq. We have no options. We must succeed to give the Iraqi people the conditions to be self-reliant.
COOPER: Can we succeed with -- with the current strategy, with the current leadership?
BATISTE: We need to get a clean slate.
The military is incredibly resilient. One person can go, and another person can come in, whether that be the leader or the lowest private, and things will happen. We need fresh blood, new leadership, to take us forward.
COOPER: General Christman, when you hear people say, well, look, maybe this is just all about politics, what do you think?
CHRISTMAN: It -- it's really not.
There is a professional conflict here. You heard this from the -- from the two generals, from -- from Dave and John, an enormous professional conflict.
On the one hand, Anderson, this is not "Seven Days in May." This is not Burt Lancaster of the JCS intending to overthrow the president. But it is a deep-seated professional concern, even distrust. And I -- I would use that word about the secretary of defense.
And this classic work that was done by Colonel H.R. McMaster, "Dereliction of Duty," published about seven years ago, and it focused on the JCS reaction during the Vietnam War, when the JCS were, by and large, silent.
And one of those chiefs, General Harold K. Johnson, the chief of staff of the Army, went to his grave disappointed in himself that he didn't speak up at the right time. And the tragedy for that haunts him and his family to this day. And, so, that's a book that's very important also to understand the cultural ethos of this professional military.
COOPER: It -- it has been a really fascinating discussion.
General Christman, appreciate it.
General Grange, as well.
And -- and, General Batiste, thank you very much.
CHRISTMAN: Thank you, Anderson.
GRANGE: Thank you.
COOPER: Well, in Washington, this may take on the qualities of a guessing game. But, remember, it is no game. We are reminded every single day of the ultimate sacrifices that Americans are making in Iraq.
Here's the raw data. Since the war began, 2,367 U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq. Among coalition troops, there has been 207 fatalities. And, according to the Defense Department, the number of American forces wounded in action now stands at 17,549.
We don't take sides on 360. We like to look at all the angles. Tomorrow night, I will talk to a staunch support of Donald Rumsfeld, retired General John Jumper. He was the chief of staff for the Air Force. Find out why he believes the defense secretary is doing all the right things in Iraq.
Now, you may think this anti-Rumsfeld talk is just politics. Well, he has been getting hints to step aside now from top-tier Republicans, some of whom may have their own presidential ambitions, of course -- that side of the story coming up.
Also, CNN has learned that baseball superstar Barry Bonds could be facing indictment for perjury -- an exclusive report ahead on this developing story.
And a rescue effort in a New York City neighborhood -- a cat trapped in a building for 13 days now. It's getting an awful lot of attention. Can it be rescued in time? We will show you how it's affecting this city -- when 360 continues.
COOPER: Well, a handful of notable Republicans think that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has failed the president. But so far, it seems, George W. Bush is not one of them.
And one thing the president's supporters have long admired about him is his loyalty to those in his inner circle. So, how likely is it that Rumsfeld will be forced out by Republicans?
CNN's Candy Crowley takes a look at that.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president cannot be fired. So, as the war began to sour, Democrats got as close as they could.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: As I have previously, I call for the resignation of the secretary of defense...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
KERRY: ... for failure to do what he should have done.
CROWLEY: Mostly, it has been Democrats calling for Rumsfeld's head. A few Republicans have done all but.
SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: I think that Don Rumsfeld, this administration, the civilian leadership in the Pentagon, have to be held responsible for not having the kind of armor that we need to support our troops.
CROWLEY: For Republicans, some of whom want to be president, some of whom believe the Cabinet is the president's business, this is tricky.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: It's well known, because I was asked a direct question about my confidence in Secretary Rumsfeld, that I do not have confidence. But that does not mean that I'm calling for his removal, because that's what the president of the United States' job is.
CROWLEY: Freed by his ouster as Republican leader, Senator Trent Lott came closest to a direct hit. "I am not a fan of Secretary Rumsfeld," he said 18 months ago. "I would like to see a change in that slot in the next year or so."
Six retired generals adding their names to the resignation roster offered credentials for Democrats to lean on, and cover for Republicans who otherwise might not speak up. The secretary is not without Republican support, particularly among conservatives on the Hill, who greeted him with open arms during a February retreat.
At the moment, there is no detectable surge for Rumsfeld to go. "I wouldn't shed a tear if he went," said one Republican, "but there's no push I have seen."
Still, the calendar is beginning to collide with the polls. An election is coming, and the war is the ball and chain that threatens to pull under the Republican majority. "We need to turn the page in Iraq," said a senior Republican aide. "We can't do it with Rumsfeld still there."
COOPER: Well, Candy Crowley joins us now. So does CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux.
Candy, would the replacement of Rumsfeld actually help the GOP politically, especially as these elections are coming?
CROWLEY: Well, hard to see how.
Voters are not sitting out there thinking, boy, if -- if the president would replace Rumsfeld, all would go right with Iraq.
It's the president's policy. And Donald Rumsfeld carries it out. What is worrying voters is not who sits at the Pentagon, but what's going on, on the ground in Iraq.
COOPER: Well, Suzanne, I mean, does it worry the White House that you have all -- all these generals, some of whom, I mean, were recently serving in Iraq and serving in very important spots, coming out, calling for his -- his removal?
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's really interesting, Anderson, because the thinking at White House is -- is that Rumsfeld offered his resignation twice during the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. President Bush did not accept it then.
He has not come forward since. And the thinking here is, if Rumsfeld goes, it essentially acknowledges defeat here, that, somehow, there was a big mistake that was being made. The president doesn't believe that. Rumsfeld doesn't believe that.
And, like Candy said, they don't believe it really solves the problem. Americans want the troops to come home. They want the casualties to stop. They believe that, if Rumsfeld goes, it simply gives his critics red meat, and the real thing to do is just to stick with the strategy, that is, to offer and say, look, we're learning from our mistakes, we're making tactical changes, but that changing Rumsfeld and the chain of command would not actually solve the problem.
COOPER: Didn't they actually even give him a medal?
CROWLEY: Well, yes. Yes. Rumsfeld has been awarded several medals.
COOPER: All right. Interesting.
Candy, the -- the criticism -- I mean, you talked about how -- how most people out there aren't really sitting around thinking, oh, well, if Rumsfeld goes, every -- everything else will be fine.
But, as these generals are coming forward -- and -- and -- and, again, I mean, what -- what I think is so startling is, some of the generals, I mean, were in very top positions, commanding large units in Iraq. As they come forward -- and -- and the public starts to question, I mean, it -- it has got to raise questions in the public -- public mind. I guess, the fear -- is there any fear among GOPers that -- that that then ends up in the polls?
CROWLEY: Well, again, it's -- it's hard -- if it shows up in the polls, it's going to show up in, you know, "How well do you think the president's doing in the war in Iraq?"
I mean, certainly, there's -- there's this -- it -- it goes into the atmosphere. We have been talking about it. Other people have been talking about it. So, yes, it goes into the public consciousness. And, insofar as it makes a difference, it either solidifies opposition to the president's policy, or it -- it pushes more people into that column.
But the sheer fact of Rumsfeld's staying or going is not something that really is tops on -- on the public's mind.
Candy Crowley, Suzanne Malveaux, thanks.
We are going to have more of this in our next hour -- a CNN special report on the intelligence failures leading up to the war. It's called "Dead Wrong."
First, Sophia Choi from Headline News joins us with some of the other stories we are following -- Sophia.
SOPHIA CHOI, HEADLINE NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Anderson.
al Qaeda member Zacarias Moussaoui told jurors today that he had no regret over the September 11 terrorist attacks. He said he would like to see similar attacks every day. The jurors have to decide whether Moussaoui should be executed for his role in September 11. His lawyers say, their client is mentally ill and wants to become a martyr.
A woman who claims she was gang-raped by member of the Duke University lacrosse team was described by one of the first police officers to see her that night as -- quote -- "just passed-out drunk." The black woman, a stripper and college student, says three white men raped her around midnight. The police officer who called after she refused to get out of someone else's car in a grocery store parking lot saw her at 1:30 a.m.
And increased port security has had an unexpected bonus for the owner of a classic Yamaha motorcycle. The bike, which was stolen 34 years ago, was found as it was being shipped out of the Port of Los Angeles on its way to Finland. Customs agents yesterday returned the bike to its delighted and surprised owner.
CHOI: ... kind of like that '68 Corvette they found a few months ago, remember?
Thanks very much, Sophia.
COOPER: Shocking news from the world of sports: One of baseball's biggest and most controversial stars, Barry Bonds, could be facing perjury charges, following a grand jury investigation -- exclusive details on that coming up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two weeks later, he started showing worse signs of neurological disorder. And he started twitching really bad. And, then, I took him in. And the doctor said, we need to put him to sleep.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Just when you thought you had heard it all about what's being smuggled into the United States from Mexico, puppies brought to this country illegally, often sick, being sold to American families. We will take you inside the word of puppy smuggling -- when 360 continues.
COOPER: Well, we return to our breaking news right now.
CNN has learned that San Francisco Giant slugger Barry Bonds may be indicted for perjury. The grand jury is hearing testimony. The development follows testimony, of course, by Bonds in connection with an investigation into steroids use. CNN's Ted Rowlands broke the exclusive story. He joins us now from L.A.
Ted, what is going on?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, this is a huge development in this steroids scandal, which has been going on for more than two years.
Barry Bonds now is facing the real possibility of possible criminal prosecution.
ROWLANDS (voice-over): On December 4, 2003, Barry Bonds testified in front of a federal grand jury in San Francisco. Prosecutors asked the baseball superstar whether he had used steroids.
MICHAEL RAINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR BARRY BONDS: Barry testified truthfully to the grand jury. Barry Bonds is clean.
ROWLANDS: But it now appears, federal prosecutors are pursuing a case of perjury against Barry Bonds. Multiple sources tell CNN that, for more than a month, a different federal grand jury has been hearing testimony over whether Bonds lied when he testified in 2003.
If the grand jury indicts Barry Bonds, an eventual trial could land him in jail.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: This is extremely bad news for Barry Bonds, because a federal prosecutor doesn't start looking into perjury unless he has a pretty good idea that he's going to find perjury at the end of the day.
ROWLANDS: Barry Bonds was one of several athletes forced to testify in 2003 as part of the Balco case which centered around a San Francisco area lab, its founder Victor Conte and Greg Anderson, a longtime friend of Barry Bonds. Conte eventually spent four months in jail after pleading guilty to distributing illegal steroids. Anderson was sentenced to three months on the same charges. At the time, Bonds and other athletes were given immunity from the Federal prosecutors. The deal, which is common was simple, tell the truth and nothing will happen. Lie, and we can come after you for perjury. Barry Bonds' attorney Michael Rains has long maintained that the Federal government has it in for his client.
MICHAEL RAINS, BARRY BONDS' ATTORNEY: We think this is always been the case of the Barry Bonds show. It hasn't been U.S. versus Conte, U.S. versus Anderson. It's been U.S. versus Bonds.
ROWLANDS: At this press conference in December of 2004, Rains accused prosecutors of intentionally trying to set up Bonds in front of the grand jury so they could later pursue a perjury case against a famous baseball player.
RAINS: Look no further than Martha Stewart. The trap is perjury. The trap is, as they did with Martha, get them in there. You offer them immunity, then can ask them the questions and then you get them for 18 USC 1001, lying to Federal officers, exactly what they got Martha for, that's the trap and that was the trap that was being laid.
TOOBIN: Prosecutors are supposed to go after big fish. It's those kind of prosecutions that tell everyone that it's not OK to lie to prosecutors or to the grand jury.
COOPER: So, Ted, do we know if Barry Bonds actually, has he been informed about this? Does he know?
ROWLANDS: Well, maybe not. We talked to a representative from the legal firm that's representing Barry Bonds this afternoon and they had not been informed which is typical, it's a secretive process and defense attorneys and the target of a grand jury is typically not informed that the process is going on. Bonds played a doubleheader today in San Francisco with the Giants and presumably he does not know that he is the target of an investigation. But you heard Michael Rains talking earlier. This is something that they feared directly after he testified 2003 this was a real possibility. Nothing has happened but it seems to be now happening two plus years late.
COOPER: If he's watching CNN, he now knows. Ted, thanks very much.
Coming up now, a family massacre in Pennsylvania. Six people found dead and the search for the excused killer led police to one of the victim's grandsons all of this happening in Amish Country. We'll have the latest.
Also, ahead tonight, dealing dogs across the border. They smuggle drugs and they smuggle just about everything else I guess, puppy smuggling and why so many of them are ending up dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN SEAN ADAMS, DISCOVERED BODIES: I've been down a little bit. I've seen a baby down in there laying on his face. That's all I need see. I ran out and I told the police that they was all down there, dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Tonight, rural Lancaster County, Pennsylvania has become the backdrop for a horrific crime. Six relatives found murdered in a basement. Police say the killer was a family member. CNN's Christopher King has the latest in tonight's justice served.
CHRISTOPHER KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The crime, according to the local coroner is beyond belief. Who could ever fathom they'd find six members of a family dead in a home in eastern Pennsylvania?
Twenty one-year-old Jesse Wise (ph) was silent as he walked into a Lancaster County courthouse. Prosecutors accuse him in the beating and strangling deaths of his grandmother, two aunts and three cousins. It all happened here at 81 East Main Street in the mall town of Leola, about 75 miles west of Philadelphia. A next door neighbor says hi nephew was friends within one of the victims.
ROBERT LOPEZ, WISE FAMILY NEIGHBOR: We shocked right now. They were friends. It's shocking to the whole neighborhood.
KING: All the victims shared the same last name. Police say Wise admitted he beat his two aunts, 45-year-old Wanda and 43-year-old Agnes and a cousin 19-year-old Skyler. They say Wise also admitted to strangling his own grandmother, 64-year-old Emily, along with another cousin, 17-year-old Jesse James who police say was stabbed as well. And they say Wise told them he even choked to death his little cousin, five-year-old Chaz (ph) but won't say why he did it. Police say Wise did admit to placing all their bodies in the basement.
CHIEF JOHN BOWMAN, EAST LAMPITER TOWNSHIP POLICE: It's something that's not an everyday occurrence even for the county here. So I hope that I think that this will put the community at ease that we do have a person in custody and the charges that followed with that.
KING: Authorities say the home is owned by Jesse Wise Sr., the 60-year-old grandfather of the suspect. According to authorities, the elder Jesse Wise was in New York. The family was supposed to have met him there. But, they say, he hadn't heard from his loved ones since last Friday. So, authorities say, Wise asked a neighbor to check on the family. The neighbor called police. When he and police arrived at the home they say, he went down to the basement but ran back up, shouting everyone is dead.
ADAMS: And when I seen the baby he was facing me. And it felt like somebody hit me in the chest with a bag of sand. That's how it felt. I ran back up the stars called the police officer.
KING: Police say they found blood splattered on the walls and ceilings along with hair and bone fragments in three upstairs bedrooms. They also say they found a hammer. Bloodstains they say were all over the basement.
COOPER: It is so horrific. Christopher, is there any clue as to motive, why he did this?
KING: Well, Anderson, no word yet on a motive. But 21-year-old Jesse Wise is currently being held at Lancaster County prison. He's charged with six counts of criminal homicide. His next day in court will be next Thursday. Now I want to show you something. Take a look at this over here. This is the home where this all happened. Of course you can see there's been a vigil outside here. People came by. They brought flowers. They lit candles. They put up signs. They left stuffed animals. So of course it's been just a tremendous outpouring of emotion for the Wise family. Anderson.
COOPER: And it's so, so, horrific. Christopher, thanks.
Along the border with Mexico a different crime, puppy smuggling, of all things. Sounds bizarre, but a new bust by the Feds. Coming up, we take you inside this little known sinister trade.
And, well, different kind of animal story. A cat of all things trapped. But for 13 days inside the wall of a shop in New York. An unusual rescue attempt is under way that an entire neighborhood is rooting for.
And the intelligence failures that led us into Iraq. Dead wrong, a "360" special report coming up.
COOPER: Puppies. Along the U.S. border with Mexico, not only is human smuggling big business and drug smuggling so is the puppy trade of all thing. Earlier this week more than two dozen puppies were found no more than six weeks olds were found under the front seat of a minivan at San Diego's (INAUDIBLE) mesa border crossing. Authorities say many of the puppies were from Mexico. They were terribly ill. The driver who investigators say is a U.S. citizen, faces animal cruelty charges. Sadly, he's not alone. This is an active trade, hiding in plain sight. CNN's Gary Tuchman investigates.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the U.S.- Mexican border, amid the smuggling of human beings and drugs, another type of smuggling is taking place. These are sick, under aged puppies. All 26 of them found stuffed in two small burlap bags in the car of a puppy smuggler. Official says they would have been sold through want ads, on street corners in the U.S. Now, they're fighting for their lives, too ill and too young.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their faces don't look much bigger than hamsters.
TUCHMAN: Under California law, dogs can't be sold if they're under eight weeks old or sick. And the vets at the shelter say these dogs are no older than five weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't go too far. You're going to fall.
TUCHMAN: And under aged dogs like these are sold to unsuspecting families all the time for prices well under the more than $1,000 that is often paid in a pet store. Monica Westfall (ph) bought two tiny dogs for her children this past November. They both died within days.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're now in March but it still hurt. It was two puppies.
TUCHMAN: For the conscience challenged puppy smuggler, the business model is irresistible. Go into Mexico and you can buy purebred puppies for as little as $20 a piece. Gamble that you successfully across this border and then sell them in the United States for a 1,000 percent markup. That is a typical scenario.
We went into Tijuana, Mexico and asked where we could buy puppies. Using hidden cameras, my photographer and I found tiny puppies being sold out of a car.
Schnauzer, miniature schnauzer. (speaking Spanish) It is not illegal to sell dogs younger than eight weeks in Mexico. But because the people selling them know their puppies could end up in California, they may not have told us the following if they knew we had a camera. (speaking Spanish) seven weeks.
TUCHMAN: Seven weeks. This dog is seven weeks old, he says. We say good-bye to these puppy peddlers and make our way to this shanty where puppies are for sale in the yard. Here we show the camera and they show us puppies in a basket. They're only four weeks old and not much bigger than large rodents. Do you like dogs? She says she loves her dogs and wants them to be taken care of properly but puppies like these are prime candidates to be smuggled across the boarder. James Heinz is the director of the San Sidro (ph) California border crossing, the busiest in the U.S. where they have confiscated hundreds of puppies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They could be in a basket with a blanket over them. They could be in baggage. They could be in the trunk. They could be you know, they could have tape. They could be taped up. You never know what you're going to see out here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to go ahead and serve the warrant.
TUCHMAN: So in southern California, different agencies have gotten together to try to deal with the puppy smuggling problem. With our hidden camera, we shoot a sting operation, an undercover officer with the southeast area animal control authority answered this classified ad from a woman allegedly to have sold many under aged puppies in the past. The transaction takes place and the officer signals. That's when this Los Angeles woman gets the surprise of her life. Guns and handcuffs spring out and she's placed under arrest and charged with selling a dog that is too young and sick. She's with her small son and police try to comfort him as they count up $1700 in her wallet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've received previous complaints about her. We actually think she's a big fish.
TUCHMAN: Do you know why you were arrested?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I don't. I mean -- they said for selling under aged dogs. But they're not.
TUCHMAN: The authorities disagree, after a vet looked at the dogs that he said were full of worms.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're estimating their age to be six to seven weeks. TUCHMAN: Police say puppy smuggling is increasingly popular because small dogs are very trendy. Monica Smith though says she just wanted a dog for her children to love. What happened to your doggy?
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: He died.
TUCHMAN: And so have countless others, smuggled across the border by people not at all consumed about the heartache they are causing. Gary Tuchman, CNN, Tijuana, Mexico.
COOPER: It is so sad. There's another animal that is in distress tonight. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH SCHERMER, VOLUNTEER: We saw Molly. We saw the perfect outline of two eyes, a, you know, curving down nose the way those do and mike, who's from animal control saw whiskers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Somewhere inside the walls of a New York building is a cat. She has been holed up there for nearly two weeks now. The entire neighborhood wants to get her out.
And in the run-up to the war, how did so many people, so many governments, so many officials and intelligence agencies get the intelligence so wrong, dead wrong? "360" special coming up.
COOPER: Tonight an animal rescue story that we hope has a happy ending. A familiar face disappeared from its New York neighborhood 13 days ago. But just because she vanished doesn't mean she has been silenced and that is a very good thing CNN's Randi Kaye explains.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She was last seen at this delicatessen in New York City. Her name is Molly. She's 11 months old with bright green eyes.
PETER MYERS, MOLLIE'S OWNER: I'm told that a dog chased Molly into a gap between two buildings.
KAYE: Peter Myers is not Molly's father. He is her owner. Molly is a black cat. She was on mouse patrol inside Myers' deli when she slipped through a crack in the wall. Thirteen days have passed since. A massive effort is under way to save her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Molly, we hear you. Everybody wants you come out. We're not going to hurt you. Molly, please.
KAYE: Molly's still meowing. We heard it through the wall for ourselves late Thursday night. The landmark building was built in 1849. So tearing down a wall to reach her could weaken it. Are you concerned at all about the cat's condition?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah we're concerned about dehydration at this point. I still think he's in fairly decent shape. But we're starting to get into a critical time.
KAYE: They tried cat food, cages, still nothing. To catch a cat, you have to get creative. So animal control brought in a handful of kittens like this one. This is Kissy and she's just about five weeks old. They put them all inside one of the holes in the building hoping that the cat Molly would hear their cries and come to them. But after 35 minutes, still no Molly. A tiny video camera attached to a plumber's snake gave rescuers a glimpse of Molly Wednesday.
SCHERMER: When we saw Molly, we saw the perfect outline of two eyes, a, you know, curving down nose the way those do and Mike, who is from animal control saw whiskers.
KAYE: But just how far should the city go to save Molly?
PETER FOGES, ONLOOKER: Well I think they should knock the house down. And I think it would be wonderful if they did something really miraculous and saved this little cat.
KAYE: Molly's owner is convinced she's enjoying the spotlight.
MYERS: I'm beginning to think that she's enjoying this and she's -- she's in the back of his building loving it is all.
KAYE: Still, Myers, who has seen the return of mice to his shop since his faithful feline disappeared hopes Molly is home soon. Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.
COOPER: Well, coming up animal calisthenics you will not want to miss. But first, Sophia Choi from HEADLINE NEWS joins us with some business news we're following tonight. Sophia?
CHOI: Oh, Anderson, Molly's story just breaks your heart, huh? Hope they get her out.
All right, well, bad news for the housing market. Thirty-year mortgages are at their highest point in nearly four years. Freddie Mac says fixed rate loans average 6.49 percent this week, the highest since the summer of 2002.
Ford says it's shutting two assembly plants, one in Virginia and the other in Minnesota within two years. The closures will affect more than 4,000 workers. The company said in January that it plans to close 14 plants in the next six years at a cost of up to 30,000 jobs.
Well, Canadian officials are investigating a suspected case of mad cow disease in British Columbia and they say the cow did not enter the food chain. The case has U.S. cattle markets worried though because the animal, a six-year-old Holstein was born after the 1997 feed ban designed to stop the disease. Anderson?
COOPER: Sophia, thanks very much.
Tomorrow on "American Morning" you probably know the deadline for filing your taxes is a few day as way. If you don't know that you're already in deeper trouble than we can tell you, but you may not know about the latest scam by people who are trying to get your refund. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About a month ago I was checking my e-mail at my desk, my government office, and I saw an e-mail from an outfit called tax refunds at irs.gov.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is an example of the message Andrew Aristoff (ph) received complete with the right logos and language.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All I needed to do was to give them my credit card information and my Social Security number so I'd verify my identity and I'd get my refund.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: To avoid losing your refund tomorrow on "American Morning" with Miles O'Brien and Soledad O'Brien. That's at 6:00 a.m. Eastern time. Also kicking off a new segment tonight, the best picture or video that we've seen today. Doesn't matter what it is, doesn't matter where it's from as long as it won't scare the kids. We're calling it the shot and the shot tonight, well, well, it's -- it's a Japanese walrus doing sit-ups. Take a look.
Yeah. It's good, isn't it? I've been watching it all day actually. That's Rocky the walrus, by the way. Serious stuff though when we come back. Serious questions about intelligence failures, leading up to the war. How did so many people from the White House on down and many different administrations get things dead wrong? A "360" special report coming up.
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