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Interview With George Clooney; Total of U.S. Soldiers Wounded in Iraq Reaches 20,000

Aired September 14, 2006 - 22:00   ET


JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening again, everyone. I'm John Roberts.
Another grim milestone in Iraq, another grim day -- tonight, how that day looked through the eyes of the people trying to save lives in one of the deadliest spots on Earth.


ANNOUNCER: Twenty thousand wounded, another day of bombings -- on the front lines at the busiest combat hospital in Iraq.

Mr. Clooney goes to the U.N. and sits down with us.

GEORGE CLOONEY, ACTOR: Of course it's complex, but, when you see entire villages raped and killed, all complexities disappear, and it comes down to simply right and wrong.

ANNOUNCER: Using star power to try and stop a genocide -- our extended interview with George Clooney and his dad.

Also, he called himself the angel of death -- from the dark and gory corners of the Internet, a picture emerges of fatality666, AKA, the young man accused of turning a school into a shooting gallery.


ANNOUNCER: Across the country and around the world, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360 -- sitting in tonight for Anderson and reporting from the CNN studios in New York, here is John Roberts.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: And thanks for joining us.

We begin tonight with Iraq and the "Raw Data," because, from time to time -- and this is one of those times -- the Iraq story becomes all about the "Raw Data." So, here it is.

The total number of American troops wounded in Iraq has now reached 20,000. That's right, 20,000. And, of that 20,000, more than 9,000 have sustained injuries serious enough to prevent their returning to active duty or even returning to life as they once knew it.

In addition, 2,678 American service men and women have been killed, nearly all since the president declared major combat over more than three years ago. That's the "Raw Data." Now CNN's Cal Perry with the brave and talented and tired heroes who see it nearly every moment of every day.


CAL PERRY, CNN PRODUCER (voice-over): A mass casualty situation, many wounded on the way. We had gone to the busiest combat hospital in Iraq with a plan to cover the U.S. military's grim milestone.

We had been at the hospital only about an hour. Bloodied and screaming, U.S. soldiers stream into the combat hospital, 25 in total, many fighting for their lives. It had been a truck bomb attack on a 4th Infantry Division fixed position in Baghdad. The U.S. soldiers had apparently been caught off guard. Some of the wounded arrived wearing sneakers, rather than their usual combat gear.

Even as the casualties were still coming, Major General James Thurman slips in. He's the commander of the 4th Infantry Division, here to comfort and console his men.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's going to be fine, sir. He's got...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's going to be fine, sir.

PERRY: In this war, it's a question: Is he or she going to be OK? That has been asked nearly 23,000 times. The answers have not always been what families wanted to hear, close to 2,700 U.S. soldiers killed, 20,000 wounded, with more than 9,000 unable to return to duty.

Many of those unable to return to their units head home, with devastating injuries.

(on camera): Without the quick medical response already in place by the U.S. military, the death toll would be far higher. This landing zone at the 10th CSH in Baghdad, on any given day, is literally buzzing with activity.

(voice-over): All over Iraq, from Baghdad to Ramadi, Fallujah to the Triangle of Death, these three years prove, the U.S. is in the grips of a bloody fight.

Of the 25 casualties brought in from the attack on the 4th Infantry Division, one later succumbed to his wounds. Another soldier died at the scene of the attack -- through the day, a tense struggle to keep the death toll from growing higher, many soldiers sent to surgery to get them stable enough to fly out to hospitals in Germany, and then to the U.S.

(on camera): It's all in the hands of these doctors, medics and nurses, to ensure that more U.S. soldiers return home to their families than those that die here in Iraq.

Cal Perry, CNN, Baghdad. (END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTS: Also in Baghdad, CNN's Michael Ware, who has been face to face with an awful lot of heartache, too, over the last three years.

Michael, more troops were brought into Baghdad. They're still not stopping the violence out in Anbar Province and Ramadi, where you were embedded with U.S. forces. There's not enough troops to quell the insurgency. What's going on there?

MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, I mean, all of these things are bringing to head a point that has been very, very clear here on the ground for quite some time.

I mean, it's what a lot of American officers will say in their private moments. There simply are not enough troops in Iraq to do the job. I mean, we saw the American Marine general who controls al-Anbar Province admit that he does not have enough troops right now, American or Iraqi, to defeat the al Qaeda-led insurgency in that province.

We have seen this massive operation under way in Baghdad, the battle of Baghdad, Operation Together Forward. It's now striking into new regions, touching on the power base of anti-American rebel cleric Muqtada la-Sadr. Yet, in the last three days, we have still seen over 100 bodies of the executed and tortured show up in the capital streets.

So, it really brings into question the whole strategy. The strategy has been economy of force, just enough American troops to hold the line, while they build up the Iraqi security forces. What now comes into question is, what's the price of that policy? How long will it take to develop these Iraqi security forces? How many will die in the meantime, American and Iraqi? How close will this country come to civil war? And how much stronger will al Qaeda get in that time? -- John.

ROBERTS: It's an interesting juxtaposition, Michael, that President Bush says, this is the central front in the war on terror; it is so important to win this battle; and, yet, as you said, there don't appear to be enough troops to do it.

How -- how important is this cap -- or this capture of the top aide to al-Masri, the al Qaeda leader there in Iraq, in terms of how it might affect the violence in Baghdad, because he was a big operative in the Baghdad area, wasn't he?

WARE: Well, that's according to U.S. military intelligence.

I mean, this is one of the things about al Qaeda in Iraq. They are a very, very shadowy organization. Their operational security, or their secrecy, is very strong. It's hard to penetrate them publicly. It's very hard to know exactly who's who.

Now, this organization, this al Qaeda organization, when it's had big losses, it's quite often come out and admitted that. So, we have not heard the response from them yet. We don't know exactly who this man is.

One thing we do know, John, this al Qaeda organization is one that is built for loss. We saw, with the death of its leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, they barely skipped a beat. This is a -- this is a structure that is ready to replace and soon as it loses people -- John.

ROBERTS: All right. It's making the battle very, very difficult.

Michael Ware, in Baghdad, thanks very much.

Moving on, I was talking With George Clooney today.

Got your attention? George Clooney would be happy to hear that, happy, even though it reaffirms a somewhat sad fact of human nature, that celebrity trumps, if not all, than much -- happy, because there is an upside. Celebrities can sometimes trump indifference. It certainly does goes a long way.

In this case, it goes all the way to Darfur in Sudan, where government-backed militias have slaughtered more than 250,000 people, perhaps a whole lot more than that. It's difficult to count. It goes all the way to a special session of the United Nations Security Council, where, today, George Clooney pleaded with members to send more peacekeepers and step up the pressure on Sudan's ruler.


CLOONEY: This genocide will be on your watch. How you deal with it will be your legacy, your Rwanda, your Cambodia, your Auschwitz.

We were brought up to believe that the U.N. was formed to ensure that the Holocaust could never happen again. We believe in you so strongly. We need you so badly. We have come so far. We're -- we're one yes away from ending this. And, if not the U.N., then who?


ROBERTS: George Clooney and his father, journalist Nick Clooney, have seen the suffering firsthand in a trip to the region last spring.

I sat down with them earlier today.


ROBERTS: You were here on April 28, or at least you were out in public on April 28, after your experiences in Sudan and -- and Darfur. You were urging the world to take action. Here you are before the United Nations, four months later. Nothing has happened since the last time you came out, substantially, at least, in -- in the area.

Is it frustrating?

G. CLOONEY: Well, I think that a lot happened. I mean, I really think a lot happened. The problem is that a lot happened happening, without finishing it, feels like nothing happened. There were an awful lot of movement. There was an awful lot of movement. The government of Sudan actually agreed to a peace agreement. There is a -- there is a -- there is a great opening here to do it. The problem is that it wasn't completed.

ROBERTS: How is it that it cannot be a high-priority story, when you have got that many people dying, that many people at risk of dying?

G. CLOONEY: Well, there's a couple of reasons.

I mean, one of them, they're -- they are very smart, which happens in almost every -- certainly in every genocide, but almost every time there is a pretty terrible police action, is, you get rid of all the newsmen. You get out all the information as quickly as possible.

There's a pretty -- it's very difficult to get any news from out of there. You just had a reporter from "The Chicago Tribune" arrested, and Governor Richardson had to get him released. So, the first thing you do is, you shut down the -- the resources, so that people can't see it and hear it.

ROBERTS: The United Nations has authorized a U.N. peacekeeping force to go in. Omar Hassan Bashir, the president of Sudan, has said no.

What do you want the U.N. to do?

NICK CLOONEY, JOURNALIST: Oh, he can be rolled. He has been before, back in the 1990s.

When the pressure is applied -- and, usually, it's economic pressure -- and if it can be personal economic pressure, if you can start thinking in terms of doing sanctions on individuals within that country, when they want to travel out to their beautiful places at Cap Antibes, and suddenly find out that they have no account, I think we would all be surprised.


G. CLOONEY: ... maybe the ICC picking him up along the way. There's a lot of things you can do.

I think that, also, the -- the one issue, the one thing that sort of is the elephant in the room that no one really talks about is that we can't really do anything about sanctions with a government that we have already decided we have no trade with, because they are a terrorist organization. We have said we won't.

So, we need the people who do have trade with them, Russia, and particularly China, to take the lead in the negotiating with him, to say, we will actually use sanctions against you.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ROBERTS: And, so far, China is resisting that call.

Some might say what is happening in Darfur is unspeakable. But the danger, many others warn, is in not speaking about it.

Coming up: what Nicholas Kristof of "The New York Times" calls one of the most shocking things he witnessed in Darfur, and how the crisis got to where it is.

Plus, this:


G. CLOONEY: You do it because you are part of the human race and because, you know, if you had the opportunity, I think anyone who has the opportunity would do it. I'm terrified of not actually contributing, when I'm in the position to contribute.


ROBERTS: More of my interview with George Clooney and his life- changing journey from Hollywood to Darfur -- when 360 continues.



ROBERTS: Your stances on certain issues have made you a -- a lovely punching bag for people on the right.


ROBERTS: They have gone so far a to say that you're -- you are hypocritical for wanting the United Nations to intervene in Sudan, whereas, at the same time, you're against the Iraq war, when Saddam Hussein was guilty of some of the same crimes against humanity that the Sudanese government is being accused of now.

G. CLOONEY: Mmm-hmm.

ROBERTS: How do you respond to that criticism?

G. CLOONEY: Well, I mean, I'm -- I'm an American citizen, first of all. And I can make my own decisions on what I think are right or wrong. And I will either -- I will let history sort of judge them.

You know, I feel as if this is an overwhelming group of international community. It's not just America and London -- and England and Poland that are saying, OK, let's go in.

This is an entire group of people saying, there's things we should do. And, by the way, again, I'm not saying send in the U.N. I think that that's the -- I -- I can't tell you how far down the road I think that should be, because, I think, no matter what happens, just trying to get -- they're trying to get a troop -- troops together for Lebanon, and they are having trouble. It's not going to -- it's not going to be an easy process to get people to go in there. And, certainly, they can't be American troops, because it would cause more problems than ever.

However, I do believe that sanctions are the way to go. And I think that we need -- that's why we really need the U.N.


ROBERTS: Complicated issue. The rest of my interview with George Clooney continues in just a moment.

It's not sheer chance that Clooney was at the United Nations today. The crisis in Darfur is about to hit a deadline. Right now, 7,000 peacekeepers from the African Union are on the ground in Sudan. But their mission expires on September the 30th. The U.N. Security Council has voted to send more than 20,000 U.N. peacekeeping troops to replace them.

Sudan's president, though, is doing everything he can to keep the U.N. peacekeepers out, even warning that his army would fight them. The crisis in Darfur is as complicated as it is deadly.

Here's Anderson Cooper with some background.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Though there's been fighting in Sudan for many years, the battle in Darfur is relatively young. It started in 2003, a fight between black Africans and an Arab militia group known as the janjaweed, recruited, many believe, by the Arab-Sudanese government -- although the government denies it.

It is, in part, a fight for resources, access to land and water, control of the region's rich oil reserves, but it's already being called the world's worst humanitarian crisis and labeled a genocide by the U.S. government.

If the conflict is new, it's also been incredibly deadly. Depending on the source, between 180,000 and 300,000 people have died, many from starvation and disease; the rest from horrific and relentlessly violent attacks. The main weapons of the janjaweed, slaughter and rape.

This woman told CNN that, like many in her camp, she's been repeatedly raped, simply because she's black.

She says, "Sometimes, if you go to collect grass or firewood, you'll be beaten or chased away, or, sometimes, they'll just take turns raping you, leaving you for dead."

NICHOLAS KRISTOF, REPORTER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": When you ask these people in these refugee camps, why do the women go out, when they know that they're vulnerable to being raped?

COOPER (on camera): Right.

KRISTOF: And they say, look, when the women go out, they're raped and beaten up. But, when the men go out, they're killed.

COOPER (voice-over): "New York Times" Reporter Nicholas Kristof has made several visits to the region and talked to many who have witnessed the horror firsthand.

KRISTOF: One of the stories that just I think affected me the most was talking to this woman called Fatnah (ph), who was in a village that I visited.

And, early one morning, the janjaweed came. She heard the gunfire. She ran out of her hut with her youngest child, a 2-year-old daughter, on her back. The janjaweed grabbed the baby from her back, threw it to the ground, and beat it to death in front of her.

COOPER: Darfur is a region in western Sudan. It's more than half the size of Texas. But the people caught up in the conflict say the Sudanese government's support for the janjaweed leaves them helpless to fight back. And, so, they're forced to flee.

Anderson Cooper, CNN.


ROBERTS: One of the world's most famous actors talks about his most important role yet -- George Clooney's public and personal mission to help stop the genocide in Darfur -- part two of my interview with Clooney and his father is next.

And later on: clues to a shooting spree, the Internet postings and pictures of a college gunman. That's coming up on 360.


ROBERTS: More of my revealing interview with George Clooney in his fight to save thousands of lives -- next on 360.

Stay with us.



G. CLOONEY: ... Ambassador Bolton and all of you for inviting us here today, and taking the time to talk with us.

I will make you two promises. The first is that I will be brief. And the second is that I won't try to educate you on the issues of Darfur and the regions around it. There is nothing I can say that you don't already know. You know the numbers. You know the urgency.


ROBERTS: George Clooney addressing the United Nations Security Council today on the horror and the shame of Darfur. He is urging the world to stop the genocide in Sudan, before hundreds of thousands more innocent lives are lost.

I sat down with George Clooney and his father, Nick, earlier. Here is the second part of my interview.


ROBERTS: Can you, as a well-known figure worldwide, really do anything?

G. CLOONEY: Mmm-hmm.

ROBERTS: Can you really make a difference?

G. CLOONEY: Well, here's the difference. And, no, I can't make a difference, because I'm not a policy-maker, and I have been elected to no office, and I'm not in -- I'm not a politician.

What I can do is -- you know, Kofi Annan got up and gave a great speech, and nobody saw it. And, if I stand next to him, the cameras follow. So, if that's what I can do to help move that along, I will do it as often as possible.

ROBERTS: Nick, are we reaching crunch time here with the situation in Darfur?


N. CLOONEY: We're on the clock.

We're down to the 30th of September. That's when the A.U. goes. You know, that's when the African Union gets out of there, or at least are scheduled to do so far. And, if that happens, they are twisting in the wind on a gossamer thread, and they're -- Jan Egeland has said they will lose 100,000 people a month if the non-governmental organizations get out of there because of lack of security, which, of course, they would do.

ROBERTS: Mmm-hmm.

Has President Bush done enough on this, George?

G. CLOONEY: Here's what I feel like with President Bush. He has certainly taken the lead on this, and he has -- much more so than most members of the Security Council done that.

There is a lot more you can do. You can start by naming an envoy, a big one, and go get Colin Powell or -- I don't know -- Al Gore, whoever it is, that can go in there and have some real heft to sit down with Bashir and have the conversation.

ROBERTS: How was your first experience at the Security Council?

G. CLOONEY: Really fun.


G. CLOONEY: I say do it every day.

ROBERTS: Is it frustrating when you sit down in that room and it kind of keeps going around and around in circles?

G. CLOONEY: It is, because we have stood in -- we have stood on the border of Darfur, and we have stood in Oure Cassoni and Abeche and in south Sudan in towns like Jacques (ph), and seen people laying there dead, and seen absolutely no reason at all for it to happen.

And then to have a bunch of people sitting in a room saying, we understand it's bad, that we will get back to you, and you go, no, getting back to us isn't an option.

ROBERTS: George, you have said before -- you said when you came back that you were kind of late coming to this particular issue.


ROBERTS: But, when you reflect back on your -- on the trip that you made to Sudan and to Chad to see the refugee camps, how were you struck by what you saw?

G. CLOONEY: I think everybody gets the idea of us saying, it's the most horrific thing that a human being could do to another human being, for very -- for absolutely no reason at all.

Having said that, if you see it yourself, it is -- it's -- I mean, it takes your breath away, that kind of cruelty. I have never seen anything like it.

ROBERTS: What were you struck most by, Nick?

N. CLOONEY: They are the loneliest people I ever saw, John. They are all alone. They got no government, got no money, got no property, got no cattle, got no goats, got no donkeys -- got no children, in some cases. They are the loneliest folks. They're all by themselves.

All they got is us.

ROBERTS: Not particularly speaking to this issue, but why do you take up causes? Angelina Jolie told us in a recent interview -- she said that, I get paid a silly amount of money for what I do.


ROBERTS: I would like to give something back.

What is it for you?

G. CLOONEY: I like getting paid a lot of money, as well.

No, you know, I -- you do it because you are part of the human race and because, you know, if you had the opportunity -- I think anyone who has the opportunity would do it. So, I'm in the position to do it. And I think I don't know would be -- I think I would be a real failure as a human being if I don't. You know, I'm terrified of not actually contributing, when I'm in the position to contribute.

ROBERTS: And you contribute not only through charities, but also in some of the work that you have done on pieces like "Syriana," "Good Night, and Good Luck." What give you more satisfaction, doing a film that or -- or doing, you know, the "Ocean's" films, other stuff like that?

G. CLOONEY: The "Ocean's" films pay me. I got paid $1 for the other films. So, the "Ocean" films pay very nicely. And, then, those make you feel good. So, you know, you sort of -- although I -- I like doing the "Ocean's" films a lot, too.

But, you know, what makes you feel good is that all of them make -- put me in the position that I can somehow, for some reason, get in front of the National Security Council and ask them to do whatever they can to help people.

ROBERTS: Good luck with your work, gentlemen. Good to talk with you.


G. CLOONEY: We really appreciate it.


ROBERTS: If would you like to donate food, money or contribute in any other way to the humanitarian efforts in Sudan, contact the United Nations high commissioner for refugees. The Web site is That's dot-org -- O-R-G.

Links to that Web site and other agencies can be found on our blog at

A diary of hate for a college gunman -- police searching for a motive behind his rampage and finding plenty of evidence on the Internet. That's coming up.

And later: Are they split-second decisions or cold-blooded plans? We will take you inside the mind of a spree killer -- when 360 continues.


ROBERTS: A couple of breaking stories right now, the first out of Washington.

CNN has learned that Bob Ney, a six-term Republican congressman from Ohio, will become the first lawmaker to admit to criminal wrongdoing in connection with the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal. The specifics could be disclosed as soon as tomorrow. But the charges are expected to include conspiracy and making false statements. Jack Abramoff, you will recall, pleaded guilty earlier this year to conspiring to corrupt members of Congress and other public officials.

Another developing story tonight, the Food and Drug is Administration advising people to stop eating all types of fresh bagged spinach because of an E. Coli bacteria outbreak linked to it. At least 50 people in nine states have become sick.

Wisconsin has reported the most cases, including one death. The other states affected include Connecticut, Idaho, Indiana, Michigan, New Mexico, Washington and Utah. The victims have been as young as 9 years old and as old as 78. The majority have been women over the age of 20. No specific brand or manufacturer has been implicated.

Live short, died young, that is reportedly one of the Web postings from the gunman who went on a deadly rampage at a college in Montreal yesterday. Tonight, we're learning more about his dark life, and the details are coming from his very own words and pictures.

CNN's Allan Chernoff reports.


ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was this man, police say, Kimveer Gill, a 25-year-old from a Montreal suburb, who went on a shooting spree at Dawson College Wednesday that ended with him taking his own life.

As students ran for their lives, witnesses say Gill, dressed in black, his hair in a Mohawk, appeared emotionless.

DANIEL MIGHTLEY, DAWSON COLLEGE STUDENT: The look on his face is what I see over and over again. It's the look of he didn't -- it was like no care in his face. There's no emotion in his face at all.

CHERNOFF (on camera): Blank stare?

MIGHTLEY: Pretty much, more or less.

CHERNOFF (voice-over): But cyber investigators at Quebec police headquarters say Gill expressed strong feelings on his profile at, a page filled with Goth images. He's found under the screen name Fatality666 and says, "Anger and hatred simmers within me." His dislikes: "the world and everything."

(on camera) One item on his web page that perhaps foreshadows what happened is his answer to the question, how do you want to die? "Like Romeo and Juliet or in a hail of gunfire."

(voice-over) As disturbing as the web page is, investigators say it's not all that unusual and in no way could have predicted the attack.

JOCELYN APRIL, INVESTIGATOR, QUEBEC PROVINCIAL POLICE: If you look at all the profiles that you get on there, you always see the same thing or similar. There's nothing really that stands out.

CHERNOFF: As police Thursday combed Gill's house in Laval, north of Montreal, neighbors said he pretty much stayed to himself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was very odd, you know. Very odd, I guess. But I didn't think of anything.

CHERNOFF: Kimveer Gill had no criminal record, investigators say, and no apparent connection to Dawson College. Never studied there.

(on camera) Do you think this could be just entirely random? He just happened to show up at a college, he resented the fact that these young students were educating themselves?

FRANCOIS DORE, QUEBEC PROVINCIAL POLICE: This is what we believe. It was an isolated incident.

CHERNOFF (voice-over): So far police say they have no motive for the shooting spree that left one woman dead and 19 injured, but they continue searching for an answer to the question of why.

Allan Chernoff, CNN, Montreal, Quebec.


ROBERTS: Another deadly shooting spree, the so-called zombie rave killings early this year in Seattle, seven people killed including the gunman. What turned 28-year-old quiet pizza delivery man into a cold-blooded killer? We take you inside the investigation. 360 next.


ROBERTS: The shooting spree this week at a college in Montreal left many people asking how could anyone simply open fire in a murderous rage?

The same question is asked at most crime scenes, like the one on March 25 of this year in a quiet Seattle neighborhood. Seven people were killed, including the gunman. It was Seattle's worse mass killing in more than 20 years.

Even though the gunman was dead, Seattle's police chief didn't let the case rest. He wanted answers. He wanted to know why the gunman snapped.

CNN's Randi Kaye reports on the search to understand a gruesome crime.


RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Even at 6'5", 280 pounds Kyle Huff was often described as invisible, but on a cool Seattle morning in March, this unassuming, unremarkable, unemployed pizza deliver guy opened fire on a house full of party goers, shooting them one after another with a shotgun at point blank range.

(on camera) Is it possible that Kyle Huff just snapped?

JAMES ALAN FOX, CRIMINOLOGIST: No. People don't just snap and go berserk and they just happen to have three AK-47s and 5,000 rounds of ammunition in the car just for such an occasion. No. These are well-planned executions.

The challenge from the very beginning was to try to understand what was Kyle Huff thinking? What issues was he dealing with?

KAYE (voice-over): It is mystery renowned criminologist James Alan Fox was hired to solve. Marc Verebely and his housemates had invited Huff back to their home following a rave. Raves are popular in Seattle and sometimes associated with drugs like Ecstasy, which can lead to open sex.

These pictures are from the rave that night. There was a zombie theme. "Undead" they called it. All except Kyle Huff were dressed as ghouls. They wore fake blood which, after the shooting, would only add to the confusion.

Huff didn't know anyone. So Marc and his friends invited the awkward stranger to join them.

(on camera) What was it like on the inside when he was firing?

MARC VEREBELY, WITNESS: Oh, it was really mechanical, I guess. It just didn't seem like he was processing what was going on, kind of like, you know, target, target, target, sort of thing.

KAYE: Some time after 6:30 in the morning Kyle Huff quietly snuck outside to go to his pickup truck, where he had guns and ammunition. On his way back, he stopped, and on the sidewalk three times using spray paint wrote the word "Now."

Then he began to climb the stairs to the front porch, and on the front porch was Jeremy Martin, the young musician who had invited Huff to the party. He was outside smoking a cigarette. By the time Huff reached him, he was right here at the front door. Huff aimed his shotgun at Jeremy Martin's chest and fired, killing him.

Then Huff went inside.

(voice-over) Huff killed again, then came at Marc, armed with a 12 gauge pistol grip shotgun and .40 caliber semiautomatic pistol.

VEREBELY: I'd just seen him shoot two people at pretty close range and kill them. So when he started to move towards me and point the gun at me, I jumped off of the couch and pushed his arm towards the wall and then, you know, ran past him.

KAYE: As Marc ran out, Huff cranked up the music, then continued the rampage.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are people that are shot here please. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma'am, you told me these are fireworks. Are these fireworks or gunshots?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think they're gunshots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you see anyone injured, ma'am, or...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And is the person who did the shootings still there?




KAYE: The caller didn't know Kyle Huff was still inside the home, making his way upstairs. Investigators say he fired at a locked bathroom door where a couple was hiding. Then he moved, firing from room to room.

By the time it was over, six were dead. So much blood, the floor boards would need replacing.

When Seattle police officer Steve Leonard arrived, Huff was on the front porch.

FOX: Leonard told him to "Drop your gun immediately." Huff, even before (UNINTELLIGIBLE) took his shotgun, put it in his mouth and pulled the trigger.

KAYE: For 25 years Fox has studied mass murderers. He knows what drives them. He's known as the dean of death. That's why Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske called him.

(on camera) Your suspect was dead, so why not close the books on this case?

GIL KERLIKOWSKE, SEATTLE POLICE CHIEF: Well, I think that's the common thing, is to close the books and try to move on and help the community move on. But I'm not so sure in some of these situations that it isn't almost a scab over a wound and that the wound never really heals until you look deeply enough.

KAYE (voice-over): So the chief hired Fox to provide an explanation to the victim's families. Since March, James Fox has made three trips to Seattle, one to Whitefish, Montana, where Huff grew up. He's interviewed dozens of witnesses, family members and friends to try to get inside the mind of a killer.


ROBERTS: So what has criminologist James Fox uncovered? Coming up, he shares his case file on Kyle Huff. What made the 28-year-old open fire, killing six others on that fateful night? Find out when 36o continues.


ROBERTS: Before the break we told you about the shooting spree in Seattle earlier this year, the so-called zombie rave killings. What led a 28-year-old to open fire on a crowd of party goers?

Seattle's police chief hired a criminologist to find out the killer's motive. He traveled hundreds of miles seeking answers. In the end, what he found in a trash bin just miles from the crime scene offered the most clues.

Again, here's CNN's Randi Kaye.


KAYE (voice-over): By the time the sun came up March 25, seven people had died inside the Seattle home. But why? The murderer, Kyle Huff, would never tell, because he had also killed himself.

KERLIKOWSKE: I've been in this business now 34 years. I've gone to a lot of crime scenes, and this was clearly one of the most horrific.

KAYE: Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske wanted to know why this shy, quiet guy ended up as one of Seattle's worst mass murderers. So did the grieving families.

Police knew Huff shared an apartment with his identical twin brother, Kane.

REGINA GRAY, MANAGER, TOWN & COUNTRY APARTMENTS: I had a nickname for them, the Teddy Bear Twins. That's kind of how I see him, helpful. They helped everyone. They did everything they could for anybody. They carried groceries up. They fixed flat tires.

KAYE: Hardly the image of a mass murderer. So Seattle P.D. hired long-time criminologist James Alan Fox to retrace the roots of Huff's rage.

FOX: It wasn't because of a tumor, or it wasn't because of the drug. It wasn't because of the video games. It wasn't because of lyrics in some song that drove him to kill. It was an individual who was a failure, who was a loser, lonely and isolated.

KAYE: That isolation, Fox says, caused Huff to deteriorate. He had moved from his hometown, Whitefish, Montana, to Seattle to be with his brother. That meant he lost his circle of friends, a big loss says Fox, that left him too much time to obsess on his despair.

He'd never been more than a career pizza delivery guy.

(on camera) There are a lot of people in life that don't have a network that feel that they don't belong, that are lonely, that don't have friends and don't go out and shoot up a house full of people.

FOX: Well, maybe they don't have a sense of the enemy. Kyle Huff did have the sense that there's an enemy. Enemy of the people.

KAYE (voice-over): An enemy. Remember, Kyle Huff was at a rave party just hours before the killings.

FOX: It wasn't a random spot. It wouldn't have happened at a shopping mall or it wouldn't have happened at a supermarket. It would happen at some event where ravers were present.

KAYE: Fox says Huff had grown obsessed with ravers, had parked his truck to watch them in the dark.

FOX: Frequently mass killers will take their own life because life so is miserable, but to them it's important that they do something first.

KAYE: A grand statement with his own exit. Computer forensics show Huff researched rave parties and the drug Ecstasy online. What he found, Fox says, would eventually enrage him.

(on camera) What was it about the rave community that bugged him so much?

FOX: Part of it was the promiscuity, the sexuality that he saw. Kyle Huff was a guy who didn't have a lot of girlfriends. In fact, he never really had a longterm relationship with a woman.

And in the rave community he saw the affection and the hugging and the kissing and the touching, and he was disgusted by it.

KAYE (voice-over): But was that really enough to drive someone to kill? Validation of Fox's suspicion soon came from the most unlikely witness, the murderer himself.

(on camera) A month after the shooting a letter was found crumpled up inside this dumpster about a mile from where Huff lived. The letter was dated March 23, just two days before the shooting.

Crime lab officials determined it is highly probable Huff wrote the note, which included both a good-bye to his twin brother and a rant against the rave community.

(voice-over) The letter was addressed to Kane, his brother, from Kyle. It read, "I hate leaving you by yourself, but this is something I feel I have to do. I can't let them get away with what they're doing. I hate this world of sex that they are striving to make. This is a revolution, brother. The things they say and do are just too disturbing to me to just ignore and try to live my life with."

It's signed, "Bye, Kane. I love you."

FOX: As he was obsessing and going deeper and deeper into his depression and isolation, he truly believed he was a revolutionary and he had to take one small step for society, at thwarting this evil that he saw approaching.

KAYE: Huff had never harmed anyone before. His life, until his death, had been totally unremarkable. In high school, the two brothers were voted "least spirited."

(on camera) Does Kyle Huff fit the profile of a mass murderer?

FOX: Yes, in many ways he does.

KAYE: How so?

FOX: Well, he has a long history of frustration, didn't do well in school, never really had a job that gave him any success or satisfaction. He was someone who tended to externalize blame.

KAYE: If there was something more, we'll never know. Huff's self-inflicted shot to the head prevented an autopsy. Any signs of mental illness were obliterated.

FOX: Those sorts of answers are permanently hidden and permanently buried.

KAYE: So it's a conclusion of sorts. Perhaps the best we'll ever have of what destroyed Kyle Huff and those he took with him.

Randi Kaye, CNN, Seattle.


ROBERTS: Intriguing and tragic story.

In a moment our "Shot of the Day" but first, Erica Hill from Headline News joins us now with a 360 bulletin.

Hi, Erica.


A Senate panel approved terror detainee legislation that President Bush has vowed to block. The proposal does not include provisions Mr. Bush is pressing for, including one to withhold evidence from detainees in terror trials.

Four Republicans voted for the less restrictive Senate bill, deepening the rift among Republicans just weeks before the midterm elections. And adding to the backlash today, former Secretary of State Colin Powell publicly criticized his former boss, saying it would hurt the country and put our troops at risk.

Ford Motor Company is offering buyout or early retirement to 75,000 union workers, part of an effort for the company to slash costs and to rein in growing losses. The troubled No. 2 auto maker is under intense pressure from Wall Street. Ford's new CEO, Alan Mulally is expected to unveil details of its previously announced turnaround plan tomorrow.

And a farm in Wisconsin is celebrating the birth of its third white buffalo. Now the white buffalo are extremely rare. They're considered sacred by many native American tribes. Over the weekend, dozens of American Indians held a drum ceremony to honor the calf, which has yet to be named. The odds of a buffalo being white, by the way, at least one in a million, John.

ROBERTS: What a cute little buffalo. You don't often get a chance to say that either.

HILL: No, you don't.

ROBERTS: Hey, Erica, stick around. It's time for our "Shot of the Day", and this one is just for you. Move over, firefighters. Calendar cops are here.

HILL: Oh, my.

ROBERTS: These officers are New Jersey's finest, and they don't look like they've been eating many donuts, either.

HILL: I don't think so.

ROBERTS: All we can say about a couple of fellows are "nice guns", and that's also quite a weapon you've got there, as well. Twelve cops posed for the project. They were chosen out of 60 applicants, which seems to suggest these guys aren't really shy about showing off their walkie-talkies.

HILL: You know, they don't look so shy, do they? Not half bad.

ROBERTS: I wonder -- I wonder how many of our female viewers out there just said, "Arrest me, please."

HILL: I'm on my way to Bergen County. Yes.

ROBERTS: Erica, thanks.

HILL: Thanks, John.

ROBERTS: See you next hour. Bye.

We began the night in Iraq. Coming up, Afghanistan. Anderson Cooper on the state of play in the country, still very much up for grabs. Afghanistan, the unfinished war, a 360 special report, coming up next.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): It all started with a homesick kindergartner. Four years ago Kristi Thomas doodled and scribbled inspirational messages on her daughter's lunch back to get her through the school day.

MADISON THOMAS, STUDENT: It was like she was there, because it sometimes says, "I'll see you at 3. Make it a great day."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When Madison's classmates started digging the home decorated bags out of the trash, Thomas realized she might be on to something. Today, the former child psychologist's creations are sold online and at 250 stores nationwide.

KRISTI THOMAS, FOUNDER & PRESIDENT: Lunchology manufactures educational, entertaining and inspirational lunch bags. We have 1,000 theme sets, from foreign languages to every kind of sport genre imaginable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want this one.

K. THOMAS: Lunchology lunch bags are for children and for adults. Adults, they're buying themes such as TV trivia, blast from the past, which they love, because it connects them to their childhood.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lunchology sales are expected to reach $150,000 this year. But the icing on the cake is the support Thomas gets from her family.

M. THOMAS: Some people thought this company's going to go nowhere, but me and my dad believed in her, and this company has just taken off in stores.



ROBERTS: Five years after 9/11, here in Afghanistan, America's war on terror is far from over. Five years later, Osama bin Laden is still out there, and to make matters worse, here in Afghanistan, attacks by the Taliban and al Qaeda are on the rise.


ANNOUNCER: This is what led America to war in Afghanistan. Terror on the home front: 2,749 people killed on September 11, 2001. And the mastermind of it all, Osama bin Laden, is still out there.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Realizing bin Laden has more than gone underground; he's slipped off the radar.

ANNOUNCER: Tonight an exclusive look at the manhunt and bin Laden's last known home.

Dying to kill. A terror tape titled "The American Inferno in Afghanistan".

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (speaking foreign language)

GRAPHIC: I pray to Allah that this operation will be vengeance upon the American pigs and their apostate collaborator dogs.

ANNOUNCER: But is it propaganda for troops?

Plus, clash of culture, Afghan style. From music to prostitution in a modern shopping mall, once banned under the Taliban, now thriving. But the vice and virtue cops may strike again.

This is a special edition of ANDERSON COOPER 360, "Afghanistan: The Unfinished War". Here's Anderson Cooper.


COOPER: Thanks for joining us on this special edition of 360. Five years after the 9/11 attacks, the war here in Eastern Afghanistan is raging. Al Qaeda fighters, Taliban militants and common criminals linked to a growing drug trade are threatening the stability of the Karzai government and threatening U.S. forces on a daily basis.


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