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Defense Rests in Warren Jeffs Case; O.J. Simpson Released on Bail

Aired September 19, 2007 - 22:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: O.J. Simpson heading home to Miami right now. He left Las Vegas after posting bail today. His bail hearing didn't last long. Simpson appeared somber and subdued, you might say, as the charges were read against him.
There was no dream team and a packed courtroom this time. There were some familiar faces in the crowd. Today brought another bizarre twist in the story, another arrest, this time a key witness in the case, Alfred Beardsley, one of the two sports memorabilia collectors who claimed they were robbed. We will have more on that coming up.

Plus, tonight, the trial that is unfolding east of Las Vegas in Utah, where polygamist leader Warren Jeffs is facing the possibility of life behind bars. The defense has rested, but has the prosecution really proved its case? We will look at that tonight.

Let's start with the latest from Vegas, O.J. Simpson a free man tonight, posting bond shortly after today's bail hearing through a company called You Ring We Spring Bail Bonds.


COOPER: Then he drove away in a -- that's Jeff Toobin laughing.


COOPER: Then he drove away in a gray Dodge sedan.

During his court appearance, his first since his arrest, Simpson appeared tense when the charges against him were read. At times, he frowned. Take a look.


JUDGE JOE BONAVENTURE, CLARK COUNTY DISTRICT COURT: This charges you with the crimes of conspiracy to commit a crime, a gross misdemeanor offense; conspiracy to commit kidnapping, a felony offense; conspiracy to commit robbery, a felony offense; burglary while in possession of deadly weapon, a felony offense; two counts of first-degree kidnapping, with use of a deadly weapon, both felony offenses; two counts of robbery with use of a deadly weapon, both felony offenses; two counts of assault with use of a deadly weapon, both felony offenses; and coercion with use of a deadly weapon, a felony offense.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: Well, asked questions, Simpson was polite, but answered in a low voice and sounded hoarse.


BONAVENTURE: Mr. Simpson, do you understand the charges against you?


BONAVENTURE: Where do you live, Mr. Simpson?

O.J. SIMPSON: I live in Miami, Florida.

BONAVENTURE: Do you understand everything?

O.J. SIMPSON: I do, sir.


COOPER: Well, as we mentioned, Miami is where O.J. Simpson is headed tonight. He's due to arrive close to midnight. And, no doubt, the media will be waiting for him there as well.

CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joins us again tonight, along and Court TV's Jami Floyd.

Good to have you on, Jami.

First, Jeff, your reaction to what happened today in the court.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I mean, again, we're going to have to figure out who the victim is here, and who the good guys are, who the bad guys are.

COOPER: It's not clear at this point?

TOOBIN: It's -- it's -- really, it's not clear. And, again, I have to be fair to the government. They have not laid out their case.

But, if you look at the story here, it's very unclear who owns this stuff. You know, Beardsley is now apparently wanted by the law. And Fromong, the other guy, had the heart attack, and he was on with Larry King a few minutes ago, and very vague in terms of how he got ahold of this and whether he was helping Simpson engage in illegal activities.

You have Riccio getting immunity and not being charged with anything, when he seems like the instigator of the whole thing. It's a big mess.

COOPER: Jami, does it seem -- it's no longer so cut and dry as it may have been...



COOPER: ... couple days ago.

FLOYD: No. There's a question as to whether there even is a victim. And only in America does somebody call Larry King from the ICU.


FLOYD: This is what we're dealing with, people. This is what we're dealing with.

I'm with Jeffrey on this one. We don't always agree, but we agree here. This is a murky, murky situation. And I think the fact that they let him out on the $125,000 suggests that they know that they may have some problems in the case.

COOPER: Ted, you were in the courtroom today. What was it like?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it was odd to see O.J. Simpson in the blue prison garb and in handcuffs there. He was very subdued, although, in the video, you could see him grimace when the charges were read.

You wonder if he hadn't been told exactly what he was facing, in terms of charges, or if he was just reacting as the judge laid it out. But, in the courtroom, you know, it was very strange to see it all go down again, if you will, and then to see him come out.

It was a madhouse here, choppers flying overhead and cameras from around the world here getting -- trying to get a glimpse of him, people following him to the airport, just amazing. You really have to see it to believe it.

COOPER: Yes, certainly that.

The Web site TMZ has obtained another audiotape, this one reportedly taken about an hour after the -- the incident took place, a conversation between Beardsley and Fromong.

Let's listen to some of that tape.


ALFRED BEARDSLEY, ALLEGED VICTIM: No, what we're going to do is press charges. He's going to prison, man. O.J. is going to prison. There's no doubt about it.

BRUCE FROMONG, ALLEGED VICTIM: Somebody set me up, and I want to know who. I have already called the press.


FROMONG: I have already called "Inside Edition." I'm trying to get Lydia's number.

I told you we shouldn't have brought this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in. I told you, public place.

BEARDSLEY: Bruce, Bruce, do you know how much money you're going to make off this?



COOPER: Jeff, what do -- what do you make of that?


TOOBIN: I mean, you know, the -- the problem with the government's case is that there doesn't appear to be a consistent narrative of what happened here.

A lot of evidence has come out. All these people have talked a great deal. The tape is out. And the issue of who initiated this, who owned the property is just -- is just not at all clear. And these -- the checkered past of all the other participants have only begun to be explored.


FLOYD: And even if you can get that narrative down, which, I agree with you, isn't there yet, you have got some credibility problems with the folks who might tell it to a jury or even to a judge.


FLOYD: They have got real problems with these -- with these guys.

COOPER: We're going to look at that very closely coming up.

But -- but, you know, these tapes which keep kind of coming out in drips and drabs, as, I guess, these characters sell them in piecemeal to TMZ, there's clearly more tapes out there. I mean, this guy, Tom Riccio, who has been on "LARRY KING" last night, saying that -- that he recorded -- or intimating that he recorded the conversations when he and O.J. were setting this whole thing up.

TOOBIN: Which raises the question, why?

FLOYD: Right.

TOOBIN: Why is he tape-recording all this stuff? Was he planning on selling it to TMZ or the -- or an equivalent from the beginning, which -- which, again, calls his motives into question.

If he wasn't planning on selling it, what else -- what other reason would you have to sell it?

FLOYD: And when was the deal made? When did the money change hands, assuming there are paid-for tapes, which I think is a fair assumption? We will have Harvey address that at some point, but...

COOPER: Harvey Levin refusing to talk about how they procured the tapes.

FLOYD: Refusing to talk about that, our old friend Harvey.

But the bottom line is, there are real questions about who set this up, when, and why.


TOOBIN: If this was O.J. Smith there...


TOOBIN: ... it is very hard for me to imagine that this case would be brought at all, and it would seem to be a big problem.

The tremendous advantage the government has is that's one of the most despised people in America, for good reason, as I see it, and, you know, 80 percent of the people think he killed his ex-wife and Ron Goldman. But, if that coloring was not in this case, boy, it's hard to think it would have been brought.

COOPER: Is -- is it possible this thing will never even see the inside of a courtroom, that it won't even get that far, that the charges could be dropped?

FLOYD: I think it's very possible that it may not see the inside of a courtroom. In fact, I'm surprised we have gotten this far, although, as Jeffrey says, because we have got O.J. Simpson in the mix, I think there's a lot of pressure on law enforcement to pursue it.

There's a real question, though, about whether or not you actually get to trial. And, if you go to trial, are you in front of a jury or a judge? I wouldn't be surprised if it somehow devolves, rather than evolves.

TOOBIN: At -- at the bail hearing today, I thought Yale Galanter, O.J.'s lawyer, was very solicitous of the government, very courteous.


TOOBIN: And even afterwards, at his press conference, saying, responsible prosecutors.

He is obviously setting up a strategy of going in there and saying, hey, guys, let's get rid of this thing right now.


TOOBIN: Let's not turn you into Marcia Clark and Chris Darden, another embarrassed prosecutor. Let's -- and -- and this is the stage at which that would happen, before the preliminary hearing or grand jury, depending on how the prosecution decides to approach it.

That -- this would be the time to say to them, let's drop it. But, you know, they're not dropping it. They have added charges. They added kidnapping charges.

FLOYD: Well, and...

COOPER: And the pictures we're looking at right now is O.J. Simpson at the airport, I guess, going to -- or -- or leaving his hotel -- I'm not sure -- but going toward his flight. He's going to land in Miami around midnight.

FLOYD: Headed -- headed to home sweet home.

Look, 99 percent of cases are resolved without ever going to trial, but, when O.J. Simpson is in the mix, the -- the pressure is quite a bit different on prosecutors...


COOPER: Does it seem, though, as if the -- the government has filed these charges without really knowing all the -- I mean, do you think the government has a clear sense of what's going on, or is this thing moving every day?

TOOBIN: Well, I -- I wouldn't -- I wouldn't presume that they don't know. I mean, these are responsible prosecutors, and they don't do things that they -- they don't -- are not confident they can bring.

COOPER: But, the other day, you were saying you were surprised at how quickly that he was arrested.

TOOBIN: Well, yes.

As a matter of strategy, it does not seem smart to me to have done this. I mean, remember, this alleged crime took place on Thursday. O.J. was arrested on Friday. We're now at Wednesday. It's only six days later. O.J. Simpson was not going anywhere. He's not going to disappear from the face of the Earth.

He's an easily found person. Why not take two weeks, interview everybody, get everybody's story on tape, recorded, and then decide whether you have a case, rather than, you know, arrest everybody right away and have the stories come apart, if that's what they're doing, you know, after you have filed charges?

FLOYD: Roger -- Roger has a reputation as a very good and responsible prosecutor. Even defense attorneys like him.

But I -- I think that there was a lot of pressure placed on law enforcement here. The press conference happened sooner than it should have last week. And I think the prosecution has started sooner than it should have started in this case.

COOPER: We are going to have more with Jami and Jeff coming up. Marcia Clark was actually covering O.J. Simpson's bail hearing today for "Entertainment Tonight," as if this thing does not get any more surreal. Everyone involved, from the alleged victims to the suspects, has a backstory. And what we have learned so far has all the makings of what is a very bad Hollywood movie.

Here's CNN's Randi Kaye.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're ordered to surrender your passport.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If he did it, staged that less-than-daring raid on memorabilia dealers in Vegas last Thursday, O.J. Simpson didn't do it alone. He was surrounded by a middle-aged posse.

But, hey, in a pinch, who you going to call? Well, these-not-so- wise guys, apparently.

Co-defendant number one, Walter Alexander. He's a 46-year-old Simpson golfing buddy, in Vegas for the wedding of a mutual friend. Alexander has no known criminal record.


WALTER ALEXANDER CO-DEFENDANT: Unfortunately, I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.


KAYE: Co-defendant number two, Clarence Stewart. He's 54, lives in Vegas, and -- you guessed it -- is another Simpson golfing buddy.

Co-defendant number three, Michael McClinton, 49, described by Las Vegas police as a key player in the alleged robbery. No word if he ever played golf with Simpson, though.

And, tonight, another arrest, co-defendant number four, Charles Cashmore. Las Vegas Police say they are looking for one more man.

If you think the suspects are not very interesting, wait until you meet the alleged victims, the dealers who all say they are or were Simpson's friends, too.

Bruce Fromong is a 53-year-old Vegas-based sports memorabilia collector who came to the Palace Station Hotel to do a deal on some Simpson collectibles, footballs, photographs, a Hall of Fame certificate. Fromong even testified for Simpson at his wrongful death civil trial.

And, as this tape posted on the Web site shows, he didn't take the events of last Thursday well.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) FROMONG: Nobody puts a gun in my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) face. I stood up for that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in -- while he was in jail. I stood up for him in the press. I stood up for him on the -- on the stand.


KAYE: On Monday, Fromong suffered a massive heart attack. He's in fair condition in a Los Angeles hospital.

Then there's the other dealer, Alfred Beardsley, also a longtime Simpson supporter and collector of Simpson souvenirs. At first, he told tales to the press of Simpson and company storming the hotel room.

BEARDSLEY: I was directed at gunpoint to pack the items up in the condition they were brought in.

KAYE: Then, well, he changed his tune.

BEARDSLEY: At no time did Mr. Simpson hold any kind of firearm at all.

KAYE: Now Alfred Beardsley has a few legal issues of his own. It turns out this Simpson fan was also a fugitive with a warrant for his arrest in California. Today, Nevada's Fugitive Task Force placed him under arrest, and he's sitting in a Clark County jail cell.

Finally, there's the snitch, Thomas Riccio, an ex-convict who says he called O.J. Simpson and told him people at the Palace Station Hotel -- quote -- "have a lot of your stuff, and they don't want anyone to know they are selling it."

What Riccio didn't tell Simpson was that he, too, was armed with a cell phone, ready to record and sell the sounds of the confrontation...


O.J. SIMPSON: Don't let anybody out of this room.

Think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and sell it?


KAYE: ... perhaps disproving, once again, the old adage about honor and thieves.

Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.


COOPER: OK, so those are the key players. They all tell different stories about what they were doing in the Vegas hotel room.

So, what really happened inside that room, Room 1203 at the Palace Station Hotel and Casino?


COOPER (voice-over): They all admit they were there.


THOMAS RICCIO, RECORDED SIMPSON'S ALLEGED CRIME: The original plan was, O.J. was going to come to my hotel room, identify the stuff, and then he would give them the option of turning the stuff over or calling the police.

COOPER: If that's true, and this recording is authentic, the plan went terribly wrong.


O.J. SIMPSON: Don't let nobody out of here.


You mother (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?


COOPER: Just ahead, the raw facts about how the alleged heist unfolded.

Also ahead: Her testimony could put polygamist leader Warren Jeffs behind bars for the rest of his life.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was sobbing, and my whole entire body was just shaking, because I was so, so scared.

COOPER: But has the prosecution proved its case against the man who calls himself a prophet? The latest on Jeffs' trial -- next on 360.



911 OPERATOR: 911 emergency.

NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, O.J. SIMPSON'S WIFE: Could you get someone over here now to 325 Gretna Green? He's back. Please!

911 OPERATOR: OK. What does he look like?

NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: He's O.J. Simpson. I think you know his record. Could you just send somebody over here?

911 OPERATOR: OK. What is he doing there?

NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: He just drove up again! 911 OPERATOR: He just drove up?


NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: Could you just send somebody over?

911 OPERATOR: OK. Wait a minute. What kind of car is he in?

NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: He's in a white Bronco. But, first of all, he broke the back door down to get in.

911 OPERATOR: OK. Wait a minute. What's your name?


911 OPERATOR: OK. Is he the sportscaster or whatever?


911 OPERATOR: OK. Wait a minute. We're sending the police.

What is he doing? Is he threatening you?



COOPER: That was a recording there of the 911 call placed by Nicole Broken Simpson less than a year before she was killed.

As we all know, O.J. Simpson was acquitted in her murder, but now he's facing new charges stemming from an alleged burglary. Now, the case for and against Simpson is full of shady characters and questionable motives. Just today, one of the alleged victims was himself arrested.

If there is a trial, the jury will have to decide who's lying and who is not. So, before they get their hands on it, we will let you take a shot. Here's the way they said it went down that night in Las Vegas.


COOPER (voice-over): What happened at the Palace Station Hotel and Casino depends on whom you ask. And just about everyone who was inside Room 1203 is talking.

Let's start with one of the alleged victims, Bruce Fromong, a former salesman for Simpson. He says he owns a valuable collection of O.J. Simpson memorabilia and was approached by a business acquaintance, Alfred Beardsley, about a potential buyer at the casino.

FROMONG: He asked that we meet there, and so we took the stuff there to meet him. And we're talking about a deal that, approximately, could have been as much as $75,000 to $100,000 worth of stuff on the retail market. COOPER: Beardsley, arrested today on a California fugitive warrant, told CNN the man who arranged the meeting was Thomas Riccio, the auction house owner and ex-con.

Riccio said he had a buyer, but he also had a secret. He told us the collection was stolen from Simpson and was going to surprise them with O.J. himself.

RICCIO: But the original plan was, O.J. was going to come to my hotel room, identify the stuff, and then he would give them the option of turning the stuff over or calling the police.

COOPER: So, on September 13, Beardsley, Fromong, and Riccio were in Room 1203, and items for sale were on the bed. Then Riccio left to get what they believed was his client.

FROMONG: Yes, the gentleman that set up us on this thing -- and I use that term loosely -- said that, my buyer is here. Let me go get him.

About a minute later, the door burst open. Guys came rushing in, one after another. The second one had a gun drawn.

COOPER: Fromong told police that Simpson and five to four other men burst into the room, two of them holding guns. Riccio says he recorded what happened next on his cell phone.


O.J. SIMPSON: Don't let nobody out this room. (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

Think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and sell it?


O.J. SIMPSON: Don't let nobody out of here.


You mother (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you! Mind your own business!


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get over there!

O.J. SIMPSON: You think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Backs to the wall!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was trying to get past you!



COOPER: It was over in minutes. Beardsley says it was terrifying.

BEARDSLEY: When you're a victim of a violent setting like this, you just -- it's like somebody telling you that somebody in your family passed away. You know how you get the cold chill through your body? I mean, it was scary.

COOPER: Riccio knew Simpson would enter the room, but claims he had no idea there would be guns.


KING: Did you know he would be coming with other people to get that merchandise back?

RICCIO: I knew he would be coming with a couple other people, yes.

KING: Did you think he would be coming with people who would be armed?

RICCIO: I never knew it was going to be that many people and definitely didn't know that it was going to be armed.


COOPER: But one co-defendant points the finger at Riccio, saying, Simpson was tricked.


ALEXANDER: I believe he was a set up. I believe the whole thing was a setup. You see it was taped. You know, I believe that it was a setup. It's very obvious that Thomas Riccio, you know, had intentions to set O.J. up. And -- and that's what happened.


COOPER: But Simpson says it was not an armed robbery and no guns were involved. He says he was conducting a sting operation to retrieve items he claims were stolen from him.

One room, one night, too many stories to count. Who's telling the truth in yet another Simpson criminal case? It may be impossible to know for sure.


COOPER: Well, coming up next on the program, some of those people who believe O.J. Simpson got away with murder are probably hoping he will go away for life, but will it actually happen? Jeffrey Toobin, Jami Floyd are back with some of the odder details of this case.

Plus, Dan Rather says CBS News made him a scapegoat, so he's suing. Wait until you hear for how much.

That's ahead on 360.



BONAVENTURE: You're to not use any means to contact these individuals. Don't use e-mail, telephone, mail, passenger pigeon, no whatsoever contact.


COOPER: No passenger pigeons, a little courtroom humor there by the judge, as he was trying to hammer down a point. O.J. Simpson cannot talk with any of the alleged victims, any of the witnesses, or his alleged accomplices in the case.

Joining me once again, CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin and Court TV anchor Jami Floyd.

A couple of interesting things have come out of these new tapes which have been put on, which were taken, I guess, about -- allegedly about an hour after this whole incident took place in this -- in the s hotel room in Vegas.

Let's just play one of these, a conversation between Bruce Fromong and Alfred Beardsley.


FROMONG: Nobody puts a gun in my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) face. I stood up for that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in -- while he was in jail. I stood up for him in the press. I stood up for him on the -- on the stand. I helped him set up his (EXPLETIVE DELETED) offshore accounts. Don't (EXPLETIVE DELETED) with me.


COOPER: All right. Obviously, he's upset. He's ranting.

But -- but mentioning the offshore accounts, that will certainly be of interest to the -- the Goldman family.

TOOBIN: The Goldmans -- the Goldmans' lawyers, because he has got -- the Goldman family got this $33 million judgment in the civil case. They have only received, I think Kim Goldman said on "A.C. 360" about $6,000, $7,000...

COOPER: Right.

TOOBIN: ... I mean, a pathetic amount of money. And they had always suspected offshore accounts. They have never been able to prove it. This is suggesting that there was -- there is some. But, I mean, in this case, you can never assume even that is the truth.

COOPER: Right. It could be a guy just kind of...

TOOBIN: Venting.

COOPER: I mean, to me, it sounds like a guy talking in a bar, like, oh, yes, I helped him set up his offshore accounts.



TOOBIN: Right.


FLOYD: Well, that particular line is so specific. The rest of it, maybe.

Look, what it says to me is, we're dealing with someone who's maybe missing a little bulb up top. If you're going to say something with the tape rolling, don't say anything that might get you into trouble.

TOOBIN: But the other thing about that tape that's worth noting is that there's no way that's admissible against O.J. That's after the alleged crime took place. That's simply a witness describing what he wants to have happen. You know, he should go to jail. That's another thing he says. That is completely inadmissible in a...

COOPER: But even though the fact that they talk about, at another point of that tape, making a lot of money off this, that doesn't go to their motive?

TOOBIN: Well, that would be cross-examination material, perhaps.

FLOYD: Impeach...


TOOBIN: But the government couldn't -- couldn't put that in to show that they're victims.

COOPER: And, as you mentioned earlier, Bruce Fromong has now called in to "LARRY KING" in the last hour.

FLOYD: Yes, from the ICU, apparently.

COOPER: This thing just gets weirder and weirder, frankly.



COOPER: I have got to admit, I have about had my fill.


COOPER: I'm -- I'm about done. I'm doped up on...

FLOYD: Fatigue is setting in.

TOOBIN: I devoted years of my life to this subject.

COOPER: I know. I know you did.



COOPER: I know you did.

I'm doped up on TheraFlu...



COOPER: ... which is helping me get through it all, quite frankly.


COOPER: But -- but -- so, now, Bruce Fromong has called in, as you pointed out, from the ICU in the hospital to Larry King's show.

I want to play some of what he said just a little bit earlier.


FROMONG: I hope O.J. gets help. Does he -- you know, what he did was wrong, absolutely, no doubt about it.

But the person that's killing me that's getting away with it right now is this Tom character. He's the perpetrator. He set everybody and everything up.


COOPER: It seems there is little doubt this guy Tom Riccio set the whole -- set the whole event in motion.



COOPER: I mean, by his own admission...

FLOYD: Yes. That's right. He's the catalyst, seemingly.


COOPER: Right. TOOBIN: And -- and, last night, on the supreme court of Larry King...


TOOBIN: ... the witness was...

COOPER: It is fascinating, by the way...


COOPER: ... how Larry King's show has become, like, the epicenter for all of this.

TOOBIN: Absolutely. Absolutely.


TOOBIN: It is -- it's basically...


COOPER: As he should be.

TOOBIN: Yes, exactly, as we all agree.

COOPER: After 50 years in the business...

TOOBIN: That's right.

COOPER: ... he deserves it.


TOOBIN: But Riccio said last night that he had immunity.

COOPER: Right.

TOOBIN: It's like, why does he get immunity?

FLOYD: If that's true.

TOOBIN: Right.


FLOYD: But that is what he said.

TOOBIN: I mean, I don't know why you would lie about whether you have a immunity. That is a -- that is a fact in the world.


FLOYD: And I know Larry King's bookers aren't going to like it when I say this, but shut up, people. What are you doing on national television? You're now all embroiled in a major criminal case. You don't start talking.

What's happened to people?

COOPER: Well, Tom Riccio on "LARRY KING" last night...

FLOYD: Do they have no common sense when the bookers come calling?


COOPER: The first thing he said to Larry King was, like, I just want to you know I'm a big fan.


TOOBIN: That's right.


FLOYD: Well, and the first thing the cops said on Friday, when they had the presser last week is, is everybody rolling?

COOPER: Right. Right.

FLOYD: The very first words out of the police officer's mouth, before he started speaking, is everybody rolling?


COOPER: But some of the things that...

FLOYD: What is this thing being tried for?

COOPER: ... that this guy Tom Riccio said on "LARRY KING LIVE" last night were actually pretty important. I mean, he -- he intimated that, basically, O.J. Simpson wanted to bring the media along on this.

TOOBIN: Initially, which I think goes favorably to O.J.'s criminal intent.


TOOBIN: I mean, if -- if he thought he was doing...

FLOYD: And lack thereof.

TOOBIN: Right, lack thereof.

If he thought he was doing something terrible and wrong, he certainly wouldn't have had the idea of bringing the press along.

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean he later didn't decide to -- to use illegal tactics. But it certainly suggests a mind-set that was not criminal, at least at one point.

FLOYD: Yes. And it's interesting to me, in listening to -- to the folks on "LARRY KING," the way people are backing away now. Even the alleged victims seem to be backing away. I hope O.J. gets some help, that after we heard him cursing and screaming there on TMZ.

So, it seems like it's a bunch of hotheads. It got out of control. Now we're in a criminal courtroom with 10 felony counts. I don't know that anybody really wants to be there.

COOPER: I mean, Jeff, you did -- you wrote probably the definitive book on -- on the O.J. Simpson case, devoted a long time to this, as you yourself point out.



COOPER: What do you think of fascination with this is? I mean, we have been inundated with e-mails by people saying: Look, stop doing this. We're sick of this. We don't want to watch this.

And, yet...


COOPER: ... so many people are watching. The ratings are through the roof...


COOPER: ... on all the -- any program that does this. So, there's this bifurcation. People say: I'm not interested. I resent you doing it.

And, yet, people are watching.


TOOBIN: With the original Simpson case, you had a combination of everything that obsesses the American people.

You had sex. You had race. You had violence. You had Hollywood. You had sports. And the only eyewitness was a dog. So, I mean, it was an absolute perfect combination.

This is -- I mean, it's just the same cast of characters. Again, I think the crime, fortunately, is not as horrible, and it's not as significant.

But, you know, 80 percent, according to a CNN poll, of Americans believe that he got away with murder.

COOPER: Right.

TOOBIN: Now there's a chance to get him again.

COOPER: Jami, do you think this will be seen differently along racial lines? This latest incident?

FLOYD: I don't think if it goes forward it will be seen differently. I think that we'll fall back into those same horrible patterns that we saw in the first case.

COOPER: But do you think there will be divisions?

FLOYD: I think there will be divisions.

COOPER: African-American will see it one way...

FLOYD: If it goes forward, there will be division. I don't think we're there yet. I do think...

TOOBIN: I agree.

FLOYD: I do think, though, as I said on my program today, a lot of black folks are just sick and tired of O.J. of his bad behavior. Lay low, O.J. Lay low. We're tired of it and tired of defending him.

COOPER: But I've got to say, on this one, it's hard not to see it as some sort of a setup, given all of this stuff.

TOOBIN: That's right. I mean, why is Riccio given a walk and O.J. being prosecuted? That's the question a lot of people are going to ask.

COOPER: We've got to leave it there. Jami Floyd, from Court TV, appreciate it. Thank you.

Jeff Toobin, as well. Thanks very much.

We'll have a little bit more on O.J. Simpson, just like -- it's actually Jeanne Moos's take on it, a look at the courthouse antics, big crowds making a lot of noise.

First, we want to check of some of the day's other headlines. For that, let's check in with Erica Hill.


ERICA HILL, HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Anderson, we begin in Beirut, Lebanon, where a massive bomb has killed an anti-Syrian lawmaker and at least four others. A fellow member of parliament called the killing a bloody message, since it cuts the parliament majority just days before lawmakers are to meet to select a new president.

Ghanem is the eighth prominent anti-Syrian official to be assassinated since 2005. Syria has denied any involvement in this killings.

In Los Angeles, the judge in the Phil Spector murder trial will not allow the deadlocked jury to consider a lesser charge of involuntary manslaughter. The music producer is charged with second- degree murder in the death of Lana Clarkson in his home in 2003. And former CBS anchor Dan Rather suing the network for $70 million along with Viacom, CBS's parent company, and three of Rather's former bosses that he charges the network and its executives have made him a scapegoat for the discredited story about President Bush's National Guard service.

CBS says the lawsuit is without merit.

Dan Rather will talk about that lawsuit with CNN's Larry King tomorrow night at 9 Eastern, Anderson.

COOPER: Strange twist there.

HILL: Indeed, it is.

A strange twist, too, in another legal matter which has many asking tonight, "What Were They Thinking?" After a 70-year-old great- grandmother in Orem, Utah, was arrested for not watering her lawn and resisting arrest, both of which are misdemeanors.

Turns out during the struggle with police, Betty Perry injured her nose. She ended up spending more than an hour behind bars. The mayor and the city council have apologized, but the city attorney, Anderson, still pressing charges.

Perry pleaded guilty -- not guilty, pardon me, to those charges. She's due back in court next month.


HILL: Kind of crazy. Apparently the issue was, he wanted to cite her for the lawn, and she said, "I want to go inside. I'm not going to give you my name." And then he arrested her.

COOPER: And mayhem ensued.

HILL: Indeed.

COOPER: Oh, well. Erica, thanks.


COOPER: Here's Kiran Chetry with what's coming up tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING".



Tomorrow we bring you the most news in the morning include a crisis for some families here in the U.S. They're looking to have blonde, blue-eyed babies, using sperm from men in Nordic countries. The problem is the FDA now bans it, and sperm banks are running out of it.

We're going to find out why tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING". It all begins at 6 a.m. Eastern.

Anderson, back to you.


COOPER: Just ahead, we'll have a little bit more on the O.J. case, including the media circus soaking it all up.

Plus, which U.S. presidential candidate hops across the pond to polish his resume? Find out.

Also this.


COOPER (voice-over): Her testimony could put polygamist leader Warren Jeffs behind bars for the rest of his life.

JANE DOE, VICTIM: I was sobbing, and my whole entire body was just shaking because I was so, so scared.

COOPER: But has the prosecution proved its case against the man who calls himself a prophet? The latest on Jeffs' trial, next on 360.



BECK: With all the talk of O.J. this week, you can almost forget that we're in the middle of a marathon presidential race. Almost. The candidates are still fighting for the spotlight, mostly by fighting each other. Though one candidate is making news by leaving the country.

Here's CNN's Tom Foreman with all the "Raw Politics."


TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the man who would be king of American politics, Rudy Giuliani, is off to London to see the queen.

(on camera) Not quite, but look at the fun he's having while he chats up Prime Minister Gordon Brown and the like. The "Raw" read, this trip is intended to prop up Sir Rudy's international credentials, and it lets him raise money from the big American financial crowd overseas.

RUDY GIULIANI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES: Given the expense of American presidential elections, every fund-raising opportunity is important. You've got to take advantage of it.

FOREMAN: Back in the colonies, his honor is jousting at the liberal group

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is Move On attacking Rudy Giuliani? Because he's their worst nightmare.

FOREMAN: Move On is skewering him from leaving his position with the Iraq Study Group.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yet when Giuliani had the chance to actually do something about the war, he went AWOL.

FOREMAN: The ad wars are roaring right now. Democrat Barack Obama going at Hillary Clinton, suggesting her health care plan is too favorable to the finances of the health industry.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D-IL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES: I've taken on the drug and insurance companies and won.

FOREMAN: Mitt Romney punching his own party, too.

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If we're going to change Washington, Republicans have to put our own house in order.

FOREMAN: Says Republicans should cut spending, secure the border, get serious about ethics.

And Democrat Bill Richardson is making a promise. He says you ought to know exactly who you are getting when you pick a president.

(on camera) So, he is saying out on the trail, and he told us right here at CNN, right down the hall, that he will name his entire cabinet before the election. No one has ever done that before. Interesting idea. We'll see if he gets that far -- Anderson.


COOPER: We shall see.

If you thought it was dramatic inside the Vegas courtroom during O.J. Simpson's hearing, wait until you see what happened outside. We're going to show you the circus, coming up.

Also ahead, drama of a far different kind in Utah, the trial of self-proclaimed polygamist prophet Warren Jeffs. We'll take you inside the courtroom for both sides of this bizarre case, next on 360.


COOPER: It took months to find that man, Warren Jeffs. It took his defense team under a day and a half to make its case and only three days for the prosecution.

The trial is almost over. Closing arguments are on Friday. Some of the most riveting and crucial testimony came from the prosecution's star witness, a woman who says she was ordered by Jeffs to become a child bride, who claims she was raped by her husband.

Mike Watkiss from our affiliate KVTK in Phoenix reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DOE: I had quickly taken my dress off and thrown my pajamas on over my clothes.

MIKE WATKISS, KVTK CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): While we can't show her face, the most intimate details of her life laid bare in a St. George courthouse. The young woman known only as Jane Doe testifying about her wedding night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you sleep that night?

DOE: I didn't. I did everything I could to pretend I was asleep, but I didn't sleep.

WATKISS: That was the first of many nights the then 14-year-old girl, who says she knew nothing about sex, would have to share intimate moments with a man who was not only her first cousin, but now also her assigned husband. She said he later tried to undress her, saying that's what he was supposed to do.

DOE: This is what married people did. And after rejecting, he said, "Well, don't you ever want to have babies?"

And I said, "not with you."

WATKISS: Despite her protests, she says, within days, the marriage was consummated.

DOE: And I was sobbing. And my whole entire body was just shaking because I was so, so scared. I didn't say anything. He just laid me on the bed. And had sex.

WATKISS: Later that night, she says she hid in the bathroom so hurt, confused and betrayed that she swallowed two bottles of painkillers.

TARA ISAACSON, WARREN JEFFS' ATTORNEY: You never told your mother that you were being raped?

DOE: That is true.

ISAACSON: You didn't tell your friends, "I'm being raped." Is that right?

DOE: Who likes to tell anyone they're being raped?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were taught that if a woman had a concern or a disagreement, she was to get on her knees and pray.

WATKISS: This woman is Jane Doe's sister. The court is protecting her identity, too. Like other former members of the sect, she testified women are told to stay sweet, always, no matter what.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To be sweet is to suffer silently, regardless of what concerns you may have.

WATKISS: Among the sister's concerns, regrets that she did not prevent Jane Doe's wedding for fear of losing her own standing in the polygamist sect.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's very offensive for women to stand up to the priesthood and say, "I'm sorry, this is not OK." That is very inappropriate.

WATKISS: Mike Watkiss for CNN, reporting from St. George, Utah.


COOPER: CNN's Gary Tuchman was in the courtroom today and joins us now from St. George, Utah.

Gary, you got a very different story in court today. Can you tell us about it?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right. The defense called its star witness today, and that was the man who was married to Jane Doe. His name is Allen Steed.

Allen Steed admits he married a 14-year-old girl but says he did it because the man he loved, the prophet Warren Jeffs told him to, and that word comes from God.

Allen Steed says, contrary to what Jane Doe testified to, that he totally behaved himself, that if she ever said stop, he did not do anything. And he said that Jane Doe actually instigated their first sexual encounter.

Now, he did get some pointed questions from prosecutors during cross-examination. We'll show that you in a minute, but I want to explain that you won't be able to see his face while he's talking, because he stood up at the witness stand, and the courthouse-operated camera couldn't figure out how to shoot his face.


CRAIG BARLOW, PROSECUTOR: It didn't occur to you that marrying a 14-year-old was illegal?

ALLEN STEED, WAS MARRIED TO JANE DOE: Not according to God's law.

BARLOW: I'm not asking about God's law. I'm talking about legal, according to the laws of the government. Did you recognize the government's laws?

STEED: I don't know the government's laws that well, no.


TUCHMAN: We've spent a lot of time in these communities here, and you can be sure that most of Warren Jeffs' followers don't care much about government laws.

They are very insulated. They're told never to talk to outsiders, so they're extremely naive, including Allen Steed. Allen Steed says, since Jane Doe left him in 2004, he hasn't been with another girl. And he was asked, prior to his honeymoon, what kind of experience he had.


BARLOW: So did you sleep in the same room with (NAME DELETED) that night?

STEED: Yes, sir.

BARLOW: And was that awkward?


BARLOW: Can you tell me -- tell us why that was awkward, sir?

STEED: Well, I had definitely never slept with a girl in my life before. And hardly even slept with my brothers.


TUCHMAN: Now, I'm wary of saying this, but a lot of the followers do often sound like robots. They really do. They're kind of trained and programmed to say certain things, and they say it.

Now, it's important to keep in mind, this particular case in this courthouse is about one particular marriage, one 14-year-old girl, who happens to be 21 now. But the reason that Warren Jeffs was on the FBI ten most-wanted list is allegedly he's done this many, many times with many other girls under the age of 18 -- Anderson.

COOPER: If Warren Jeffs was charged as an accomplice to rape, why hasn't Mr. Steed been criminally charged, as well?

TUCHMAN: Very good question. He hasn't been charged in the case, but sources are telling us to not be surprised if, indeed, he is charged soon. The reason they say he hasn't been charged before is because they felt it would complicate the Warren Jeffs case, and Warren Jeffs is the big fish.

COOPER: All right. Gary Tuchman reporting, thanks, Gary.

Just ahead, back to Vegas and the latest in the O.J. Simpson saga. A serious story, of course, but all the suspects are facing a string of felony charges. But also there is a circus behind the scenes and along the fringes.

O.J., the sequel, is shaping up to be a serious case of deja vu when it comes to characters inside and outside the courtroom. Jeanne Moos takes a look next on 360.


COOPER: Various pictures of O.J. Simpson leaving Las Vegas after posting $125,000 bail. His time in jail may be over, but the case is just beginning. It is already turning into a media circus, with clowns and all.

CNN's Jeanne Moos reports.


JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A judge with a ponytail. O.J.'s girlfriend with sunglasses and a funny guy blowing bubble gum bubbles...


MOOS: ... crashing a press conference. This is some of what you missed if you weren't glued to the tube for O.J., the sequel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Simpson, do you understand the charges against you?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Free the Juice. Free the Juice.

MOOS: An O.J. supporter was outside handing out free Juice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't suck up the Juice. I'm tell you, suck up the truth.

MOOS: Competing truth sucked up to the TV cameras. "Not This Time, O.J.", read the sign paraded around by a guy in a chicken suit.

Not laughing was O.J.'s daughter from his first marriage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No cell phone cameras, please.

MOOS: She was sitting between O.J.'s sister and O.J.'s girlfriend, both aware of the glare of the courtroom camera which, for a while, stayed fixed on the ever-changing face of Christie Prody. She seemed about to cry, then smiled, then raised her eyebrows, brows that one gossip blog called eyebrows from the demon world. While another blog referred to her keeping company with a lady-killer.

(on camera) And outside the courtroom, celebrity news and comedy collide.

(voice-over) Collided during a press conference by O.J.'s defense attorney.

GALANTER: We expect Mr. Simpson to be processed and released.


MOOS: The loudmouth was on every cable news network.

GALANTER: In securing Mr. Simpson's release.

BARBIERI: Nice work, dude. Up high.

GALANTER: Thank you.

BARBIERI: Nice work, dude. Up high.

MOOS: His hat read, "I love famous people."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is your client innocent or not guilty?

GALANTER: I'm not sure there's a difference in the eyes of the law.

BARBIERI: He's both, dude. He's innocent and not guilty. Thank you.

MOOS: Eventually, O.J.'s defense attorney took offense.

GALANTER: Excuse me. Excuse me.

MOOS: Expect to see this press conference crasher on Jimmy Kimmel's late-night show, where he's billed as Jake Byrd, celebrity avenger.

Anthony Barbieri is a comedian who you may remember from other media events featuring celebs like Paris Hilton.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... serves the remainder of her sentence at the century regional detention center.

BARBIERI: No! No! No! No! No!



MOOS: It's how 24-hour news calls in the story.

GALANTER: I can't talk right now. I can't talk right now.

MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.


COOPER: The "Shot of the Day" is coming up, a different kind of look at the O.J. case, the images you don't always catch by just watching video. Plus another look at a familiar face you may not have expected to see at this hearing.

First, Erica Hill from Headline News has a "360 News and Business Bulletin" -- Erica.


HILL: Anderson, another defeat for Democrats trying to limit troop deployments in Iraq. Tonight, the Senate defeated a measure that would have required the Pentagon to give troops serving in Iraq stateside leave equal to the time spent in the battle zone. The Democrats were just four votes shy of passing a proposed amendment to a defense authorization bill. They failed to pass a similar measure back in July.

Thousands are expected to rally in Jena, Louisiana, tomorrow to protest what they call a racial injustice. Many say six black students accused of brutally beating a white student were treated more harshly than a group of white students who hung nooses from a high school tree. The black students face criminal charges while the white students received school discipline.

On Wall Street, investors are still feeling good about yesterday's half-point interest rate cut, as stocks continue to rise, the Dow gaining 76 points to end the session at 13,815. The NASDAQ finished up 14 points, while the S&P rose 9.

And remember those dry cleaners who lost a pair of pants and were sued for $67 million? They actually sold the shop in the middle of the dispute. Even though the Chung family won the case and did have their legal fees covered by fundraisers, they say the lawsuit hurt their business so bad that they had to close two of their three stores, Anderson.

COOPER: That's too bad.

HILL: Yes.

COOPER: Time for "The Shot of the Day". Tonight shot comes from the story of the week, of course, the O.J. Simpson burglary case. We're seeing a lot of video, but a different perspective from the photographs taken from the case.

Here's one of Simpson entering the courtroom. You can see somewhat of a smile on his face, or a smirk. This was -- this one was shot after Simpson was seated, showing him pursing his lips as the judge was talking about the case.

And there's this shot, a familiar face from the first O.J. Simpson trial.

HILL: Oh, yes.

COOPER: Former prosecutor Marcia Clark. I said a familiar face, but frankly...

HILL: It's not familiar, is it?

COOPER: ... it's not familiar at all.

HILL: She looks totally different.

COOPER: Yes, complete makeover of some sort.

HILL: Her skin is very tight, by the way, on her face. Is that just me?

COOPER: Yes. Well, and the hair is different. And...

HILL: The blouse is kind of low cut, too. I'll say it.

COOPER: Well, you know, I think when you get a job on "Entertainment Tonight", which is what she is now, she's a reporter or a special correspondent or something, I think you get, like, a whole package makeover.

HILL: A whole makeover?


HILL: It's a very Hollywood looking kind of thing.

COOPER: Like, I think if I was on "Entertainment Tonight", like I don't think I would have lines anymore.

HILL: Really? And you would have blonde hair and boobs. I just wanted to clarify here. I just want to make sure that's what the package entails.

COOPER: Probably so. I hadn't thought of that, but that would probably be specified in my contract.

HILL: All right. Good. Well, let me know.

COOPER: Erica, thanks.


COOPER: As always, send us your "Shot" ideas. Go to Who knows? We might put some of the suggestions on the air.

Man, imagine that -- what that would look like.

Up next on the program, he left Las Vegas, but O.J. Simpson's legal troubles are not behind him. Will he go to prison for life? Can he possibly get a fair trial? Our legal experts weigh in next.


COOPER: O.J. Simpson heading home to Miami right now. He left Las Vegas after posting bail today. His bail hearing didn't last long. Simpson appeared somber and subdued, you might say, as the charges were read against him.

There was no dream team in the packed courtroom this time. There were some familiar faces in the crowd.