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New Madeleine McCann Mystery; O'Reilly and Race

Aired September 26, 2007 - 20:00   ET


RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Bill O'Reilly orders me not to talk about him on the air. But we will bring his controversy OUT IN THE OPEN.

SANCHEZ (voice-over): Little Madeleine McCann, is this her?

Fact-checking Bill O'Reilly. He talks about the dark side, about CNN, about us, this show. We shed light on what he really said when we talked.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He can keep his (INAUDIBLE) to himself.

SANCHEZ: I will take you to Sylvia's restaurant, talk to patrons and owners. How is this affecting them?

Also, from the left and right, two points of view on what some call subtle racism in America.

Republicans skipping tomorrow's debate at a black college. Smart move? We will talk to the moderator.

A blast, a real blast, at least for these wasps.

Police don't usually show pictures of little girls abused. This is an exception. We will tell you why.

And anorexia, a warning, a graphic warning, with real live models to boot.



SANCHEZ: And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez.

Two important points as we begin this newscast tonight related to somebody else's program. Bill O'Reilly spent a lot of time last night talking about us, about this newscast, something about the dark side, something about talking to me, something about a racist angle this newscast, by the way, did not take.

We will dedicate a good portion of this newscast to that topic in just a couple of minutes, but, first, news about a little girl many all over the world have been wondering about. Her name is Madeleine McCann. Let me take you over to the big wall. I'm going to try and set this up for you, so we can all kind of come to grips with the story that people have been really genuinely interested in. She's been in the headlines now for months. She's 3 years old, disappeared while on a trip to Portugal. There she is, gorgeous little girl.

Portuguese police named Madeleine's parents -- there they are -- as suspects, which began this brouhaha, suspects in their own daughter's disappearance. They deny any involvement. It's important to say that. Then a British newspaper is now running this picture. See if you can take a look at the picture. It's a picture that was taken by a tourist in Morocco. You see the little girl over there on the right? It's coming out of the shoulder of the mom.

As a matter of fact, it's very similar to Madeleine. They are trying to figure out, could that possibly be her? Could somebody have abducted her.

Let's do this. Let's take the picture. Chris (ph), go ahead. Take the picture full now, and you see two pictures, right? You're looking at Madeleine there on the left. All right. That picture that you see, these are two Morocco pictures, pictures that have been taken by apparently the Portuguese. Now we're trying to figure out as we look at these pictures how they are different.

And to do this we have brought in somebody who is probably as smart as anybody in New York. Larry Kobilinsky, he's a professor of forensic science. He's at John Jay College here, in Criminal Justice, here in New York. And he's good enough to join us.

Take us, first of all, what you do. Somebody comes to you with a photograph and says, Professor, I think this is the little girl that's missing. What do you do? How do you break it down?

DR. LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, PROFESSOR OF FORENSIC SCIENCE, JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE: Well, I think, Rick, we have to look at the quality of the photograph, is it blurry, does it need any kind of contrast enhancement, so that we can really clarify the picture and then do other procedures.

SANCHEZ: Now, these are both -- Jeff, help me in my ear if you can because I'm a little bit confused as I look at these pictures. Which one is the one that was taken by the journalist? OK.

The one on the left, this one right here. Let's break it down for the viewer. Come back to me if you can, Chris. All right, Larry, you can help us out with this, right? This is the one, and I'm circling it for you right now, is the one that was taken apparently by a journalist who went there and said I took this picture of a little girl. She is not the same little girl who is in this picture which was taken of a tourist.

How can you take a look at these pictures and -- I understand there's something called biometrics.

(CROSSTALK) KOBILINSKY: That's correct. Biometrics is a field that started at the turn of the last century and basically one looks at certain points of focus on the face.

For example, what you would be especially interested in is to be able to measure the distance between the pupils of the eyes. Those are fixed points. Obviously, you need some kind of scale so that you can make an accurate determination.

SANCHEZ: So, you actually would go in there, right?


KOBILINSKY: That's correct.

SANCHEZ: I'm going to clear the screen to help the viewer. You actually would be able to -- let me try that one more time. You would draw a line between the eyes and measure the distance in between there, right?

KOBILINSKY: That's correct.

The interpupillary distance, it's referred to. And then there are other things will not change, the tip of the nose, for example, and, again, the distance from each pupil. So there are measurements that can be made, and I think the issue is can she be ruled out as Madeleine McCann? That's the issue.

SANCHEZ: So the question here is, is it possible that that person is living out here, has this little girl, or is it just an amazing resemblance? And it's up to police to go out there and figure it out. And right now a journalist is saying I don't think it's her, but the police haven't confirmed that.

KOBILINSKY: Well, I think the latter.

I think this calls for good police investigation. They have got to go there and find this child and then determine definitively if it's her or not. The resemblance is truly amazing, but that is not good enough to say this is the child. I think the biometric approach will tell whether she can be eliminated or not.

SANCHEZ: And we are going to have to go there and find out, and we will certainly find out when we hear from the police department out there.


SANCHEZ: Thanks so much, professor Lawrence Kobilinsky.

KOBILINSKY: Thanks, Rick.

SANCHEZ: Always a pleasure to talk to you.

I want to bring somebody else into this conversation now who knows what it's like to go through something like this. Ed Smart's daughter Elizabeth was 14 when she was abducted in Utah and held for nine months before she was finally found alive. He, too, was suspected at some time. So, he understands the McCann situation.

Have you spoken to the McCanns?


You know, I know that this is what they always hope for, is that somebody will remember or somebody will, you know, say, well, I think I took a picture and this sort of thing will come up. And it does put you on an incredible roller coaster. Your hopes get so high that you're going to really come to an end of this nightmare, and then, you know, unfortunately, in so many cases they are just dashed to pieces.

SANCHEZ: What I'm hearing you say is, this is a good thing. When people start taking pictures, when people start saying, hey, I don't know if it's her but there's a possibility that there's a little girl who looks like her out there, you're saying, please, folks, continue to doing that, right?

SMART: Please, absolutely. That is the -- that is the hope, that she will be found, because pictures -- there's nothing like a picture to find a child, nothing like one.

SANCHEZ: How are the McCanns doing, Ed?

SMART: You know, the last time I spoke with Gerry, they were anxious to get out of the spotlight, and they were being focused on and supposedly charges were going to be coming up on them. But they were anxious to get refocused on finding Madeleine, because that is the whole key.

SANCHEZ: Tough question. Do you think that they could be capable of having something to do with the disappearance of their daughter?

SMART: I do not believe they could have anything to do with their daughter's disappearance.

SANCHEZ: Have you asked them about it? Have you quizzed them about it?

SMART: You know, in talking with Gerry, we have talked about so many things. And I relate so well with all of the things that we have talked about, from, you know, how the family survives, to these ups and downs, to getting focused on what needs to be focused.

And, you know, it's difficult. It's very difficult, and I know that it was very, very difficult for them to leave Portugal. They were there for four months trying to find her.

SANCHEZ: And you went through this, too, didn't you?

SMART: We did.

SANCHEZ: Didn't you feel at times when people were kind of looking at you somewhat suspiciously? How did you deal with that, Ed?

SMART: It got to the point where you said look at me all you want, but hurry and do it, so that we can get this over with and move on to what's important, because it really distracts from finding Madeleine. And I know that that's what their focus -- what they want to focus on.

SANCHEZ: Ed Smart, thanks so much for being with us, sir.

SMART: Thank you.


SANCHEZ: As we look at some of the best pictures that we viewed throughout the day, I want to share something with you now which really has evolved from yesterday to today.

First, Myanmar. This used to be called Burma, by the way. Thousands of Buddhist monks are there. This looks like a peaceful protest, right? They are protesting, by the way, against the military regime that runs the country. Everyone has been waiting for a crackdown. And guess what?

Go ahead and put in the new pictures, if you would, Chris, because today there was a crackdown. Look at this. Finally the military moved in, and you can see the cloud of gas here and the tear gas in that area right in there. Security forces also opened fire on some of the demonstrators. Witnesses say that police beat and dragged away dozens of monks. The government says that one person was killed, but dissident groups say eight people have died thus far. We will keep an eye on it.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it shows his ignorance and his bigotry.


SANCHEZ: We are going to go back to Sylvia's, the restaurant in Harlem, to see what they are saying now about Bill O'Reilly after he visited there.

And then Al Sharpton on O'Reilly. He was on the show. I'm going to try and see if he can come here and talk to us. We have been talking to him throughout the day.

Also, what is with the Navy barracks? You notice a funny shape there? Was that by mistake or not? We're going to try and get to the bottom of this one as well.

Stay with us. We are going to be right back OUT IN THE OPEN.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back to OUT IN THE OPEN. I'm Rick Sanchez. Tonight, more on Bill O'Reilly's comments that people have described to us as everything from subtle racism to ignorance to a whole lot about nothing. We know this matters to Bill O'Reilly because he spent a significant portion of his newscast last night and tonight talking about us, about this newscast.

He said that we took the racist angle. By the way, we checked our transcripts. There was no racist angle that was taken during that newscast. He said he talked to me before the show. No, he screamed at me before the show, ordering me not to do this story.

Tonight, his story, in his words, as he described it to his radio audience that has made some people very upset.

And a program note here: We're going to let you hear more of it, so it gives the story full context.


BILL O'REILLY, HOST: The band was excellent. But they were dressed in tuxedos.

And this is what white America doesn't know, particularly people who don't have a lot of interaction with black Americans. They think that the culture is dominated by Twista, Ludacris, and Snoop Dogg.

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Oh, and it's just so awful. It's just so awful because, I mean, it's literally the sewer come to the surface, and now people take it that the sewer is the whole story.

O'REILLY: That's right. That's right. There wasn't one person in Sylvia's who was screaming, "M-Fer, I want more iced tea."



O'REILLY: You know, I mean, everybody was -- it was like going into an Italian restaurant in an all-white suburb, in the sense of people were sitting there, and they were ordering and having fun. And there wasn't any kind of craziness at all.


SANCHEZ: So, I decided to go to Sylvia's today. And I had an opportunity to talk with a lot of people that have been touched by the O'Reilly affair, including Sylvia's own granddaughter.


SANCHEZ: One of the first things that you're struck by when you walk into Sylvia's is that this is a New York institution, a family- owned restaurant. And, of course, the first thing you see is a portrait of Sylvia.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The restaurant was bought on a loan that Sylvia received from her mom taking out a second mortgage on the family farm. All of the money that she made, she gave back to her mom so that she can pay the loan back to the bank.

SANCHEZ: She's not the only one on the wall, though.

As a matter of fact, come with me and you will get a sense of some of the famous people who have dined at this historic restaurant, people like James Brown, for example, and Muhammad Ali.

Mr. O'Reilly, when he got here, he was very kind, very nice?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. We got positive feedback from the staff and from Al Sharpton himself, from Reverend Sharpton. Everything was great.

SANCHEZ: Then he goes on his radio show and describes his experience here, but he uses these words: "I couldn't get over the fact that there was no difference between Sylvia's restaurant and any other restaurant in New York City. I mean, it was the same, even though it was run by blacks."

When you heard those words, how did it strike you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's Bill O'Reilly, so I was not at all shocked or surprised. I'm offended.

SANCHEZ: You find those words offensive?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Of course. Anyone would.

SANCHEZ: He was trying to compliment you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Backhanded compliment.

SANCHEZ: Doesn't work for you?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We stand on a rich heritage, a rich African-American heritage. This is the definition of Sylvia's. And this is the definition of African-Americans as a whole.


SANCHEZ: Cool lady.

Next, I am going to talk with Al Sharpton. He's fresh from an appearance tonight on O'Reilly's show. What does he have to say about O'Reilly's controversial remarks?

And then later, the missing Republicans. Why are the front- runners skipping tomorrow's debate at a historically black college? We will have that for you right here.


SANCHEZ: And I welcome you back.

Just before the break, we took a look inside Sylvia's restaurant in Harlem. Bill O'Reilly had dinner there recently with the Reverend Al Sharpton. And that's where the story really begins.

It was after that dinner that O'Reilly made some remarks on his radio show about race in America and about African-Americans. Now those comments have raised an awful lot of controversy.

We want you to hear what O'Reilly said on his show last week and understand, as you listen to it, the context of his comments.

Here it is.


O'REILLY: I don't think there's a black American who hasn't had a personal insult that they have had to deal with because of the color of their skin. I don't think there's one in the country. So you have got to accept that as being the truth. People deal with that stuff in a variety of ways. Some get bitter. Some say, "You call me that, I'm going to be more successful."

OK? It depends on the personality.

So, it's there. It's there. And I think it's getting better. I think black Americans are starting to think more and more for themselves. They're getting away from the Sharptons and the Jacksons and the people trying to lead them into a race-based culture. They're just trying to figure it out, "Look, I can make it."


SANCHEZ: By the way, here's what Bill O'Reilly said tonight.


O'REILLY: ... is that there is no longer an honest press in America. The CNN people didn't listen to "The Radio Factor." They tried to get cheap ratings. And it backfired.

"The New York Daily News..."


SANCHEZ: All right.

We have heard from Reverend Al Sharpton, by the way, and from Sylvia's granddaughter. But what do people in Harlem think, the ones who go and they eat at the restaurant regularly? I went there today to get their reaction.


SANCHEZ: So, here's what he says, after coming and eating here. This is Mr. O'Reilly. He says: "I couldn't get over the fact that there was no difference between Sylvia's restaurant and any other restaurant in New York City. I mean, it was exactly the same, even though it was run by blacks."

And then he goes on to say: "There wasn't one person in Sylvia's who was screaming, 'M-Fer,' you know, I want more iced tea."

What do you make of that comment?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it shows his ignorance and his bigotry.

SANCHEZ: Is it possible that African-Americans are overly sensitive on issues like this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His comments come off as racist to me, because he's assuming that he's going to find, in an African-American restaurant, what's in his mind has been there for 20 or 30 years ago, which is not today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You would think the man is visiting from Mars.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People take things out of context, and, you know, make a big story out of something, when he was really trying to say that this is a great place. It is a great place.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His intent may not have been racist, but it reads as racist. It felt racist to me. But I think it's just an example of a lack of understanding about black culture.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This -- to me, I don't really feel like he's being rude, or -- I don't take offense to it. But, then again, I'm coming from a conservative household and everything, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of times, people have preconceived ideas about what's going on, but when they come and find out, everything is everything.


SANCHEZ: Everything is everything.

Now let's bring in Mychal Massie, chairman of Project 21, a national leadership network of black conservatives. Also with us from Syracuse University, professor Boyce Watkins, founder of

Let's start off with a question. And then I want you guys to debate it amongst yourselves. It's your show, so here we go.

Mychal, I am going to begin with you.

Boyce, you respond to what he says.

And we will start it with this question. Did Bill O'Reilly engage in subtle racism by seemingly implying that he was surprised by the African-Americans' civility, their civil behavior, when he visited that restaurant?

Mychal, take it away.

MYCHAL MASSIE, PROJECT 21: Let me try and answer that very quickly, and if I can finish, please.

I do not think so. I said that last night and I say it again. Let me cite very quickly two things. When I was in third grade, one of my classmates said to me that his father had told him that black people carried switchblades and will cut you. And he says we sat there inside on a rainy day. He said, but you don't carry switchblade and you won't hurt me. You're my friend.

That little guy had had an epiphany based on the relationship we had becoming friends in classroom. It happens. Black people, white people, we have -- there are misperceptions about one another based on a lack of association and involvement for any number of different reasons.

The fact matter is -- and if I can very quickly say -- as I said last night, black community has -- it has an image problem. And that image problem is both here and around the world. Unfortunately, what needs to be done to correct that is not being done. And with O'Reilly's comments, we have a classic example.


BOYCE WATKINS, PROFESSOR, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY: I'm going to stop you here, Mr. Massie. You're off base with this, because this idea of this image problem is kind of ridiculous.

The fact of the matter is, if you judge any culture on the black apples -- or, excuse me -- on the bad apples -- then you're going to see a bad image. That's like me judging the entire white culture based on what I see on "Jerry Springer."

An intelligence person is going to understand that there's a heterogeneity of black culture. We have the Ludacrises and the Ice Cubes. But we also have the Martin Luther Kings, and the Jesse Jacksons, and the Dr. Ben Carsons.

So, the fact that Bill O'Reilly is unintelligent enough to be able to understand this heterogeneity is not my problem. You must consider the context and the character of the commentator. When I have talked to Bill O'Reilly, he has never once at any point ever said anything to me that was favorable about African-Americans.

So I don't know where in the world you can conclude that his comment was meant to be favorable.


MASSIE: First of all, Boyce, let me respond to you. Let me respond to you and your comments.

WATKINS: Be quick. Be quick, because you take too long, man. Come on now.

MASSIE: You're my coach now?

First of all...


WATKINS: Hurry up now.

MASSIE: Let me say that there is a misperception. And it is patently disingenuous to suggest that Bill O'Reilly is any less fair or informed about the black community than you and I both have heard, if you are to be honest, black people speak of white people. We cannot have it both ways.

Black people speak very disparagingly about the white community. And that is...


SANCHEZ: Boyce, let him finish real quick.

WATKINS: But I'm not going to into a white house and say, I just can't get over the fact that they were not in there lynching each other and that they weren't behaving like people on "The Jerry Springer Show."


WATKINS: The thing is that, if I congratulated your mother for being clean, that means I expected your mother to be dirty.

MASSIE: Boyce, Boyce, I would be justified now in saying that you were rude for speaking over me.

And I'm glad you made the comment about your mother -- my mother being dirty.


MASSIE: If I may finish, Boyce, if I may finish.


WATKINS: You are wrong. Go ahead and finish, but you have got to be quick.

MASSIE: If I may finish.

You speak about my mother being clean means that she was dirty. Well, where is the outcry when Joe Biden made his comments about Barack Obama as being intelligent and well-spoken and so forth?


WATKINS: I was part of that outcry, absolutely. When he congratulated Obama for being articulate and clean, that was a racist statement.


SANCHEZ: Let me just step in here for a minute.


SANCHEZ: Gentlemen, let me just step in here for a minute, because that was covered extensively here on CNN and on this program.

WATKINS: Yes, it was.

SANCHEZ: And Biden apologized for it, very different from the tact that Mr. O'Reilly is taking, just to throw that in as a program note here.

Back to you, Boyce.


You're absolutely right. And the fact of the matter is that, when Bill O'Reilly gets Juan Williams, the eternal happy Negro, on his show to congratulate him on his racism, that's like Hugh Hefner getting a stripper to come on the show and tell him that he's not a sexist.


WATKINS: The fact is that Bill O'Reilly has consistently degraded, demeaned and devalued every aspect of black culture, and he can't get away from that.


WATKINS: So, he can come in and he can say, I think black people are great, but you know that it's a backhanded comment whenever Bill O'Reilly makes that statement.

MASSIE: Boyce, that sounds good in some circles.

Let me just say that, again, if we're to be honest, we need -- there is an image problem in the black community. Like it or not, fair or not, there is an image problem.

WATKINS: No. We have knuckleheads in the black community, absolutely. But we have black -- we have African-Americans that are doing amazing things, so you cannot...


SANCHEZ: Boyce, let him finish.


MASSIE: May I finish, Boyce?


SANCHEZ: Boyce, hold on and let him finish.


MASSIE: We also have people in the black community that are disrespectful, impolite, and don't know how to let others speak. I'm not mentioning any names.


WATKINS: And there are white people who are disrespectful, too. But we don't judge the entire white community based on what the bad apples do.

MASSIE: I was speaking of you.

WATKINS: There is heterogeneity, my friend. You must represent the heterogeneity. Don't worry about what the bad people are doing. There are good people doing good things. And you need to understand that that's part of the image as well.


MASSIE: Boyce, is it my turn?

WATKINS: Stop saying my name. You need to get serious, man. Say what you go to say.


BLITZER: Boyce, let him finish.

WATKINS: Go ahead, Mychal. We're waiting.

MASSIE: Thank you, sir.

I have a friend from India that heard, while he was in India, that all black people did drugs and carried guns. Is that fair? How did that -- how did that negative stereotype get there? How did it get there? There is an image problem. And the image problem...


WATKINS: When did you hit -- how often do you hit the blunt?

The fact of the matter is that that's his ignorance. That's not your responsibility. The fact is...


MASSIE: But the fact of the matter is, is that the negative image is out there. And...


WATKINS: That is not the holistic picture.

MASSIE: Boyce, will you please be quiet?

SANCHEZ: Gentlemen, we will have to leave it there.

Mychal Massie, Boyce Watkins.

Obviously, the African-American community is not monolithic.

WATKINS: Thank you.

SANCHEZ: Thanks once again.

MASSIE: Thank you. Bye, Boyce.

SANCHEZ: All right, here's one we found that I said we just have to show you, because, sometimes, today, the only way of really seeing something is from Google Earth.

And Google Earth discovered this. These are Navy barracks, but look at the shape. You see that? What is that? It's a swastika at a Navy base in Coronado, California. This building looks just like the Nazi swastika, and no one had noticed it, until, finally, they took a look on Google Earth.

And now the Navy is going to pay $600,000 to fix it by rearranging the hallways, adding some landscaping and some camouflage, and changing all the solar cells on the roof to make sure it doesn't look like this from the sky.

Here's another one, by the way, also having to do with swastikas. This is amazing, because some people are saying maybe this is a hate crime, others are saying, no free expression even if people don't like it. This is a cornfield in Trenton, New Jersey. See the image, as well? See it right there, it's the swastika, as well. Police say they are investigating. It's in the same area where a similar swastikas were found cut into the fields nearly 10 years ago.

Next, it's a drastic decision by detectives. We're going to tell you why they've taken the unusual step of releasing a picture of a little girl that was abused.

Also, how could anyone survive a crash like that? We're going to show you the whole thing and we're working the phones to try and get reaction from the Reverend Al Sharpton. We'll have it for you.


SANCHEZ: Welcome back to OUT IN THE OPEN, I'm Rick Sanchez. At the top of the program we talked about the little Madeleine McCann mystery. It's a girl who vanished on vacation with her parents in Portugal. Well, now we've got another mystery, almost similar, but really more horrific. It involves horrible abuse against a young girl.

Police in Nevada, this week, released still frames from videotape showing what appears to be a four or 5-year-old girl being sexually abused on the tape. I know it sounds horrible, but there's a reason for police doing this, by the way. Also in the picture there's a man seen abusing her. This is an actual take from the shot or from the tape, I should say, a still is the word I was looking for. The crime is appalling, obviously, and the release of the pictures is also getting a lot of controversy.

Well, here's what we know at this point. Police say that a local man told them that he found this tape in the desert, but he waited five months to report it to the police so he is now facing child porn charges himself. He's also a suspect in the case. But the guy on the tape, the guy seen apparently having the situation with the little girl has not been found, nor has the little girl.

With me now on the phone is Sheriff Tony De Meo of Nye County in Nevada.

Let's talk about this guy who gave you the tape, first of all. I'm very interested in knowing what he has to say, Sheriff. Do you suspect that he may have had something to do with the abuse of this little girl?

SHERIFF TONY DE MEO, NYE COUNTY, NV: Hi Rick, thank you so much. No, we don't believe at this time that he is has any culpability in the production of the tape or distribution. We believe that he came across the tape somehow and that's up for speculation. We charged him with the two counts of child pornography and exhibiting child pornography.

SANCHEZ: You mean he was showing it to his friends? Wasn't he?

DE MEO: Well, he was showing it to his friends. We had information that the tape was -- he had the tape in his possession as far back as May 2007. The tape was finally turned into us by Tuck after an acquaintance of his, you know, persuaded him to basically turn the tape in, and even though we're charging him the only redeeming factor I can see right now for Mr. Tuck is the fact that he turned the tape in. He didn't discard it, so at least we can start an investigation to identify this young victim.

SANCHEZ: So you have in your hands a piece of videotape where a little girl is horribly abused by this monster, and you have no idea who this guy is and you have no idea who this little girl is, and you desperately want to find out who both of them are. That's pretty much your situation, isn't it?

DE MEO: That's correct. We're able to identify, actually a tip I got from North Carolina, the dress we're able to identify the dress as being a Laura Dare collection, they call it Leopard Rose, and that particular dress was out for sale in the Spring of 2003. The TV set that we have seen and the DVR in this tape, it actually goes back to 2003 and 2004, so it's really recent.

She's still a young girl, even if it occurred when those items were purchased, so we're trying to release that and the only reason we released this -- we have controversy is because the only picture we have there -- have of clarity is of the young victim -- and even the news, I know that your station by policy does not release pictures of people involved in these types of crimes and we don't have anything to go on and we really appreciate the effort that the media has given to this story in order for us to identify this young girl, rescue her. We're trying to rescue this young girl...

SANCHEZ: Hey Sheriff, is there anything you can help us with so we can give viewers our information, any particular place they should be looking, any particular thing they should be looking for? How can we help you, because, I mean, this guy real needs to be tried for this?

DE MEO: Well, the one picture does show him with a mole on his right chest. The suspect definitely has -- is in custody of this girl either by blood or by relationship, and you know, so we have that. We just released the picture of another girl who he was videotaping, it looked like a voyeur or peeping tom type incident and in one incident when she's being videotaped, looks to the direction where the guy is and the videotape goes off and then that's about it.

SANCHEZ: That's amazing.

DE MEO: Here's a promise I'll make to you. We'll keep showing pictures of him and with your permission if you want us, to we'll show pictures of her as often as we can to try to see if we can find this guy because I know this is the kind of guy who obviously needs to be behind bars considering what you've told us that you saw on that tape. Sheriff Tony De Meo, thanks so much for being with us, sir.

All right, this is one they are talking about in the racing world having to do with the Force Team. We'll take you to a drag strip near Dallas. Watch this thing. The car over here, all right, is going to go into the other guy's lane. Now, watch him as it happens. He suddenly veers over there and then they careen into the barricade or retaining wall there on the side and then flipping over. This is a very bad accident. The driver of the second car, John Force, took a beating. He was rescued from the wreck and finally treated for broken bones and lacerations, but managed to finally get on his feet. There they are trying to extricate now him from the wreckage. So, they finally were able to take him to the hospital.

Still ahead, a story that a lot of folks are talking about, none of the Republican front-runners are going to be there tomorrow for a forum at a Black college. Are they ignoring minority voters to their own peril?

Also, a stark, graphic warning about anorexia right in the face of the fashion industry.


SANCHEZ: Larry King of LARRY KING LIVE fame is coming up in just a couple of minutes. He's joining us now to let us know what he's got tonight -- Larry.

LARRY KING, LARRY KING LIVE: You know, Rick, that would be an appropriate name for the host of the show.

SANCHEZ: Isn't that perfect? I don't know who thought of that.

KING: You know, they timed it so well.

SANCHEZ: There's some smart people working at this network, I'll tell you.

KING: Boy one of the suits got it. Unbelievable. We've got an emotional hour coming up with Jenny McCarthy it's on her fight to help her son diagnosed with autism. How her boyfriend Jim Carey is helping her, too. We'll also meet the woman Jenny says put her on a new life mission, that's actress Holly Robinson Peete whose own son has autism, as well. We'll have a famed doctor with us as well.

That's the whole hour on autism at the top of the hour on LARRY KING LIVE -- Rick.

SANCHEZ: Sounds like great, important stuff, Larry King of LARRY KING LIVE. Thanks so much.

Controversy now from fashion week. When we saw this we just figured we had to share it with you because I want you to look at something. Look at this billboard. You know, they usually show beautiful models in billboards, right? Well, get a load of this. This is about a very serious situation. It's anorexia, and this is an anti-anorexia campaign aimed at the fashion industry.

That's a real photo of a real French actress who admits that she became anorexic and was willing to share her pictures and her situations with the rest of the world. She weighed 68 pounds and writes about her eating disorders now on her blog. Wow.


TAVIS SMILEY, PBS: Would you say no to every Black and Brown request that you receive, you've got a scheduling problem or is that a pattern?


SANCHEZ: My next guest is speaking Tavis Smiley on why so many so many Republicans are refusing to show up for his presidential debates. We'll talk about that.

Also, watch out. These guys are angry. Video you've got to see to believe. We'll break it down for you.


SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back, I'm Rick Sanchez. Debate season in full swing even though we still have four months to go before the first primary and more than a year before we vote for president -- for the candidates. This is a race for face time with voters and special interest groups by candidates. So far Democrats have been accepting many more invitations to debate some of the issues than the Republicans have.

Here's a couple of examples we've got for you. Go ahead, Jeff, show them this. This is a PBS debate. You remember that one. Dems go to Howard University for the debate that moderated by Tavis Smiley, issues concerning African-Americans. And let's go to August now.

This is that logo debate that you probably heard about. Tough questions on gay issues from Melissa Etheridge on the gay network logo. Earlier this month, by the way, the Dems debate issues important to Spanish-Americans like immigration on Spanish network television, Univision. We've done a lot of stories on that, as a result.

By the way, everybody says on the Republican side that they're not going to go to this one. They're still trying to pull it off, but it doesn't look good because McCain, at this point, is the only one who says he will show up.

Let's come back a little bit, because I want to show you what the situation is right now. This is a new situation that's just developed. Change the shots, if you can. All right. There's all the Republican candidates, right. There you have them. Got them, Jeff? All right, there's all the Republican candidates. Now take out ones on the bottom because those are the guys who say, OK, they're willing to go to this next debate. This is tomorrow night. What you have left are the four candidates who say they will not go.

Well, these are the top-tier guys, right? Romney and McCain and Thompson and Giuliani, top-tier guys. This is the one organized as a forum by Black talk show host Tavis Smiley highlighting minority issues and all 10 Republican candidates were invited, but they say no, we're not going to go. Problem for Tavis Smiley? He joins us to talk about it.


Tavis, let's go through the numbers. Thompson, Giuliani, Romney and McCain, it doesn't appear that they are going to make this forum or debate. You make what have that?

SMILEY: One, it's a missed opportunity. No. 2, I've said all along I hope they reconsider their decision and so we have left on stage their podia just in case they change their minds. But finally, I want to be clear about this, Rick, from my standpoint, no one, Black, White, Brown, male or female, Republican or Democrat ought to be elected president in 2008 if they think along the way they can ignore or otherwise disrespect voters of color. It's that simple for me.

SANCHEZ: Is it possible that they have a legitimate reason for not showing up?

SMILEY: Well, what they said is almost every person is scheduling. The problem with that is this though, that when you say no to every Black request you receive to Black organizations, to Black media -- when you say no to every Hispanic invitation you receive to organizations and to Univision and other Hispanic media -- when you say no to every Black and Brown request you receive is that a scheduling problem or is that a pattern?

They're trying to go, these front-runners, these Republican front-runners, trying to go through this entire primary process and never have to address voters of color and never be quarried by journalistic of color. And I think in the most multi-cultural, multi- racial, multi-ethnic America every, that quite frankly, is unacceptable.

SANCHEZ: Is it possible that they're think maybe they just don't want to go through the hassle of getting beaten up. After all, they agenda has certainly been one that, in many ways, mirrors George Bush's agenda. George Bush is not exactly doing very well in the polls right now with African-Americans and they're thinking that's an awful lot of effort for people who aren't going to vote for us anyway?

SMILEY: I think they are doing a great deal of disservice and serving up some disrespect to Black and Brown Americans who happen to be Republican. I don't believe that you make America better by running away from opportunities to state your case.

If you believe that you have a better way to advance the discussion in America, if you believe that you have a better way of making America a better place to live and work, and can I only assume that you do, that's why you're running for president, you stand up and you make that case. To do otherwise is to disrespect these people of color.

SANCHEZ: We'll be watching. Tavis Smiley, thanks for being with us and good luck.

SMILEY: Thank you, Rick. I appreciate the opportunity.


SANCHEZ: So, why would the Republicans be snubbing the African- American audience and the Hispanic audience? Well, here's what former congressman and super bona fide conservative Republican, Jack Kemp had to say about this to the "Washington Post." Let's put it up for you.

"We sound like we don't want immigration; we sound like we don't want Black people to vote for us. What are we going to do -- meet in a country club in the suburbs one day? If we're going to be competitive with people of color, we've got to ask them for their votes."

That's Jack Kemp. Let's go to the panel. With us now, Star Parker, founder of CUR, Coalition on Urban Renewal and Education. She's in Irvine, California. And then from Chicago, CNN contributor Roland Martin is good enough to join us once again.

Star, let's start with you. Does Jack Kemp have a point here?

STAR PARKER, COALITION ON URBAN RENEWAL: I don't believe that Jack Kemp has a point. Now, listen, I was not going to get into this discussion until Tavis Smiley dragged Black conservatives into it by lashing out at us when the top-tier candidates decided not to go to his debate.

What Tavis is failing to recognize is that every issue with people of color is not racism. This is a primary season. These candidates are having enough time reaching their party. They're having enough time making their case to the registered Republicans. If there's any debate that they should have attended it was couple of weeks ago when the value voters came together and allowed them the opportunity to come before them. That is the base of their party.

When you think about the African-American vote, less than 10 percent of Blacks are registered Republicans. When you have limited resources, this is not the time to scatter yourself. You know, this is a family debate, right now. We are trying to find our candidate, and they need to make their case with registered Republicans before they go out into the general marketplace and try to stake out a claim. If anyone should be sending flowers -- if these candidates should send flowers, they should send them to Phyllis Laffley and not to Tavis Smiley.

SANCHEZ: OK, let's bring in Roland Martin on this.

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: First of all Rick, it's utter nonsense. Today on my radio show, WBON in Chicago, I had former mayor and lieutenant governor, Michael Steele who said it makes no sense, former speaker of the House, Newt Gingrich, he's saying it's baloney when it comes to scheduling.

The reality is the only way you're going to reach Black voters is if you talk to Black voters. Part of the Republican Party's problem is they are afraid to have a conversation. They are afraid to lay out the issues. And let me tell you something, Rick, when you bring up immigration on my show and I talk to African-Americans, guess what, hot issue. When you bring up education, when you bring up healthcare, when you bring up some of these hot-button issues they do respond, but it's a self-fulfilling prophecy if you say we can't get Black votes, if you don't chat with them, if you don't converse with them.

SANCHEZ: Let me add one thing you left out Roland Martin, social issues.

MARTIN: Absolutely.

SANCHEZ: African-Americans are very religious by numbers and they're very conservative on social issues you would think...

MARTIN: Yes, indeed.

SANCHEZ: ...that the Republican agenda would suit them well. Why don't they go to them on that route -- Star.

PARKER: May I comment on that? They absolutely should in a general election. In fact, you're absolutely right. Twenty-five percent of African-Americans are polling consistent with Pew and with Gallop that they are not only Evangelical, but they are conservative. But right now what's going on in the Republican Party is a great debate. We have not decided that we are the party of traditional values and limited government. Our little family is split into three circles, right now. It's not time to go down the street to the distant cousins and ask for their opinion. We have the religious right, we've got the libertarian left and we've got the moderate middle who don't like to be called extreme or mean-spirited.

MARTIN: Hey Rick...

SANCHEZ: Sounds like a problem.

PARKER: Until we solve apathy, we don't need to go -- it is a big problem and this is not the time to say well maybe we should go out and talk to others and ask for their...

SANCHEZ: So Roland, the argument she poses, there's no time to go to the Blacks right now because we've got our own problems within our own party. How do you respond to that?

MARTIN: That is absolutely absurd. What Star is basically saying is, hey, let's go talk with to the good White folks and we'll get the Hispanics and Negroes later. I mean, that's what it boils down to.

PARKER: That's not fair to interject race every time people want to talk about -- this is no about race.


MARTIN: Star, one second -- Star, one second -- Star, if you dance -- excuse me, Star. Star, excuse me Star, you danced all around it. The point is this. There are multiple debates. This debate, they approached Ken Mehlman, the head of the RNC last year in February of 2006. The invitations went out in March. Are you trying to tell me that six months prior to this debate they couldn't have a 90-minute conversation?

SANCHEZ: Let's let her respond and then we got to go.

PARKER: I am trying to tell you that they have their own issues within their party, and it is Republican voters who will decide who our candidate will be, not Blacks who are registered Democrats.

SANCHEZ: And we'll leave it there.

MARTIN: Well, some Black Republicans would love to hear from them, Star.

SANCHEZ: Star Parker, Roland Martin, thanks to the both of you for being with us tonight.

MARTIN: Thanks, Rick.

SANCHEZ: This is amazing video, almost freakish. Watch what happens. There's an explosion where they're trying to clear a highway, then something even more bizarre happens. Watch the explosion. Go ahead, Chris. There's the explosion. Now watch what they didn't know where they have the camera. There's these wasps that suddenly -- you're starting seeing them right there. They're coming around the screen one after another the other and suddenly they start overtaking the entire area. Look at size of these things, almost like a scene out of "The Birds," following the explosion and it's a huge swarm of them and they just get bigger and bigger. In fact, I'll let you hear the buzz.

It's incredible. Officials say they didn't know they were there and they were amazed when they finally went and retrieved the camera and looked at the pictures.


SANCHEZ: Time for one more piece of wild video. This is something that happened today. You saw it on all the cable outlets and all the news channels, probably on your local channels. It's near Fort Worth. FedEx truck goes out of control and there is stuff spread for acres. We leave you with that.

Hey, thanks so much for being with us everybody, I'm Rick Sanchez. Larry King starts right now. Hasta Manana.