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Clinton and Obama in Statistical Dead Heat; Can McCain Keep His Promise Not to Raise Taxes?; Princess Diana's Butler Confesses; Interview With Illinois Campus Killer's Girlfriend

Aired February 18, 2008 - 23:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Can he do any better? We're keeping them honest.
And later a 360 exclusive, the Illinois campus killer. Tonight his long time girlfriend is speaking out to us, talking for the first time ever about the man she knew and the eerie signs that only make sense to her now.

We begin though with politics, high stakes, high pressure, down to the wire primary politics. Things that wouldn't matter a month ago now mean almost everything.

Allegations of plagiarism against Barack Obama and his answer, "I was borrowing from a friend." Reports and denials of Bill Clinton flying off the handle again, attacks on Michelle Obama's patriotism; how much is substance and how much noise? That is highly debatable. We'll hear that debate tonight.

None of it would matter if the Democratic race weren't so close. New CNN/opinion research polling shows the race in Texas now 50-48, Clinton Obama. That is a statistical tie and a big game for Senator Obama.

In Wisconsin, on the other hand, a new poll from the American research group has Hillary Clinton ahead, 49-43. Those are the numbers for what they're worth.

Now CNN's Candy Crowley with all the rest.


CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): she has won fewer pledged delegates, fewer states, and lags in the total popular vote of primaries so far. Politics 101; changing those stats means being more aggressive.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's a difference between speeches and solutions; between talk and action.

CROWLEY: It's the "where's the beef" campaign, the 2008 version. Clinton advisers believe she can win on points, if she can slow his momentum and puncture his high-flying campaign.

H. CLINTON: Workers' incomes are down, our economy is losing jobs. The housing crisis is spreading. I have solutions to these economic challenges. The question today is, does Senator Obama? Because --


CROWLEY: They pass out 13-page pamphlets on her economic plans and she paints him as all rally and rhetoric.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you've got a political candidate that people actually believe in, then there's something suspicious about that.

CROWLEY: She says his economic plans are copies of hers, and today, new fodder. A YouTube clip showing that a portion of his prose is somebody else's, ripped off from a 2006 speech given by now- Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick, who also faced an opponent accusing him of being all words.

DEVAL PATRICK, GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS: I hear it a lot from her staff is that all I have to offer is words; just words. We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal. Just words. Just words. We have nothing to fear but fear itself. Just words.

B. OBAMA: Don't tell me words don't matter. I have a dream, just words. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, just words. We have nothing to fear but fear itself, just words.

CROWLEY: Governor Patrick says he doesn't care that the two have talked in the past about using the rhetoric, that he and Obama are buds. But in an hour-long call with reporters, the Clinton campaign argued that Obama's use of Patrick's words without attribution, quote, calls into question the premise of his candidacy.

OBAMA: Deval and I do trade ideas and he's occasionally used lines of mine. I would add that I know that and Senator Clinton on occasion has used words of mine as well.


COOPER: Candy joins us now. Any sign that this kind of accusation on the eve of this primary tomorrow is going to have an impact?

CROWLEY: well, this is not the sort of thing, if you're the Obama campaign, that you want to have us talking about on the eve of the primary in Wisconsin. Whether or not it actually moves any voters, you would have to look at the undecideds.

Is this something that feeds into a preconceived notion of Obama? Does someone think he might be all rhetoric? Does this prove that he, as the Clinton campaign is saying, doesn't even have original rhetoric?

So it might feed into some of the worries of some of those undecideds, but again, it's more about the conversation right now, tonight, that's never a good thing. COOPER: Candy thanks very much. Our political poohbahs, David Gergen, CNN senior analyst and former adviser to presidents from Nixon to Clinton; CNN contributor and former Mitt Romney adviser Bay Buchanan; also Keith Boykin, he edits the online site the "Daily Voice." He's the host of "My Two Cents" on the BET network, BET-J network and served in the White House as special assistant to Bill Clinton.

Appreciate all of you joining us.

David, what's your impression of Clinton's accusation that Obama is lifting rhetoric from Governor Patrick?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think he made a mistake. One of the few in his campaign, but it was a dumb mistake it is not plagiarism. You have people suggesting to you things to say in a campaign speech all the time, and people pick that up, but I think he should have given attribution.

His biggest problem with all of this, I think he can rationalize it. She has picked up stuff from him, after all. But the biggest problem, as Candy says, is dominating the conversation on the night before Wisconsin.

So if that's suppresses the vote, if that poll you just had coming out of Wisconsin which showed her ahead, if that turns out to be accurate and she were to pull an upset tomorrow, and it would be an upset if she wins, then that's going to change the dynamic of this race some. It will help her enormously in Ohio, and especially in Texas.

COOPER: Keith, you work for -- worked for President Clinton, you also went to law school with Barack Obama. Should the media be talking about this on the eve before the --

KEITH BOYKIN: Well, I think you have no choice but to talk about it. The truth is, it's really not a big issue. What Barack Obama did is nothing different from what Hillary Clinton did when she took the fired up-ready to go language.

The problem here is that when people look at these issues, they're not looking at them in terms of how we should be focusing on them, but they're looking at it from terms of what the presidential candidates are doing. And the presidential candidates are doing this the right way now.

Here's the problem. I worked with Bill Clinton and I know that David Kusnet, who was Bill Clinton's White House speech writer, I spoke with him earlier tonight. David Kusnet said this is not something different. All candidates steal from other candidates all the time. It's not unusual. I think we've made a big to-do about something that really should not be a big issue.

COOPER: Bay Buchanan, Bill Clinton was caught on camera confronting a heckler over the issue of abortion. I want to play some of it for our viewers. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We disagree with you. You want to penalize women and their doctors and we disagree. We won't criminalize women and their doctors.


COOPER: Do these -- you worked on the Romney campaign. Do these kind of moments impact the Clinton campaign, impact the message?

BAY BUCHANAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it can, it depends on how you handle it. If it really throws you off it becomes the big story of the evening, it sure can change the dynamics a little bit. But I don't think it happened in that particular case, to be quite honest.

But you know, I want to get back to what the -- you know, the Clintons have now accused Barack Obama of plagiarism. I don't know how many times I've heard her say, "We've got to take back America." That's Pat's words, my brother Pat Buchanan, from his '96 convention speech, of which, by the way, he was mightily criticized by liberals.

But she's allowed to take that language. Barack did not plagiarize. All he did was kind of take and use another kind of means, a similar means that's someone else did to handle an attack. And I see nothing wrong with what he did, to be quite honest.

COOPER: David, in terms of Wisconsin, for Senator Clinton, how important is it, in terms of snapping Obama's winning streak?

GERGEN: This has gotten to be hugely important for her, because of the kind of momentum. They aside the controversy about tonight, and I agree, it's not plagiarism, but I think it was a dumb mistake.

If he can win tomorrow in Wisconsin and pull that out, then the kind of momentum we're seeing and you just reflected in Texas, the fact that she was up at least 10 just a few days ago and was up more than 20 before this in Texas, the fact is that a 2-point raise in Texas means he's really got some surge still going.

And there's a new Gallup poll out tonight nationwide that shows head on head on head among Democrats, he's up 7. That's the biggest lead by far we've ever seen for Obama. So with the voters, the surge continues.

Now, if this should stop him tomorrow, then I think, as I say, it changes the dynamics. But if he beats her tomorrow, he's going to have a lot of momentum coming out of this. And I think this story about -- these quotes and so forth, I think that will probably disappear.

COOPER: We're going to have more from David, and Keith and Bay Buchanan coming up later on in the program. We'll have a lot more.

You can join the conversation also online right now, we're live- blogging during the program. Tell me about what you think about the debate you're hearing tonight. Go to and follow the links there.

Speaking of debates, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are going to go head to head in a debate in Austin, Texas. You can watch it live on CNN, Thursday night at 8:00 Eastern.

We'll have more from the campaign trail and our panel ahead, a big endorsement for John McCain and a big promise not to raise taxes. Can he keep it? That's next.


COOPER: Republicans and taxes. Then --


COOPER: And now.


COOPER: Can he keep that promise? We're keeping them honest.

And later, they could end up picking the Democratic nominee. Meet a superdelegate who's younger than most voters tonight on 360.


COOPER: Former President George Bush there endorsing John McCain earlier today in Houston. Mr. Bush calling questions about Senator McCain's conservatism, quote, "absurd." One pillar of modern conservatism is tax cutting, or at the very least promising to.

The first President Bush did, but he had a tough time sticking to it. Now senator McCain is talking the same talk. We wanted to know can voters reasonably expect him to walk the walk?

"Keeping them Honest" tonight CNN's Tom Foreman.


TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the presidential horse race, it is an attractive and risky gamble and John McCain is placing his bet.

MCCAIN: No new taxes.

FOREMAN: But keeping them honest, can he keep that promise? Some economists say not likely.

ROBERT GREENSTEIN, CENTER ON BUDGET AND POLICY PRIORITIES: The problems in the future are so large that it's pretty unthinkable we could close those deficits either by just cutting programs or just raising taxes. We're going to have to do both sooner or later.

FOREMAN: Among costs hammering the budget, the war, a half trillion dollars so far, by some estimates. That economic stimulus plan, $168 billion. Soaring entitlements for baby boomers, interest on the national debt, all that with no new taxes? Democrats say, get real.

PETER FENN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: That would take an act of magic, not an act of Congress. He cannot do it unless he does something very radical, like cut social security, cut Medicare. And he's not going to do that.

FOREMAN: Last year McCain was attacked because he would not sign a pledge against higher taxes.

And some conservatives are uncertain about his beliefs even now. Since McCain opposed the Bush tax cuts in 2001 and 2003. McCain says he did so because he wanted reductions in spending too.

He still thinks spending cuts should lead the way to a balanced budget, but now he also wants to make the Bush cuts permanent. Republicans like that.

RICH GALEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I not only think that it's possible to keep taxes low, but I think it's desirable, and even in the face of a Democrat-controlled house and senate, a president who is devoted to cutting unnecessary spending really does have a lot of tools in his tool kit.

FOREMAN: Still, 20 years ago, George H.W. Bush accepted his party's nomination with these words.

G.H.W. BUSH: Read my lips. No new taxes.

FOREMAN: Read the record. He broke that promise. Now he's endorsing McCain, and Republicans hope this time they can keep their man honest. And he'll keep his word.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.


COOPER: Before we dig deeper into reading lips and raising taxes, a new polling on the Republican side in Texas, it's McCain, 55 percent, Mike Huckabee 32, Ron Paul, 11. That's in tonight's new CNN poll. And in Wisconsin, the new ARG poll has McCain, 46, Huckabee, 42, Ron Paul with 4.

Back now to taxes and our panel, David Gergen, Bay Buchanan and Keith Boykin.

With so many budgetary problems facing the next president, do you think McCain can realistically keep that pledge?

BUCHANAN: First of all, Anderson, he's got to become president of the United States. And so he wants to make certain he puts out the word to conservatives that there's a reason for them to come vote for him. This is it. This is how you bring a lot of conservatives home. You tell them there's going to be no new taxes. He didn't say he's going to cut taxes, he said there's going to be no increase in taxes, if you like. And I think he can absolutely keep that, if he chooses to. He may not be able to solve the deficit problem as quickly as he'd like, but he certainly can keep that promise.

COOPER: Keith, you worked for former President Clinton. Do you believe this is a responsible pledge?

BOYKIN: Absolutely irresponsible. It's a shocker to me, because John McCain was the guy who voted against the tax cuts for president bush. John McCain is the guy who is a straight talk express man, and now John McCain is the guy who's encouraging no tax cuts? It just doesn't make any sense.

I think John McCain, of all people, should know better. It's inconsistent with his own past, inconsistent with his rhetoric. I would hope that he'd be a more responsible candidate than this.

COOPER: David, in our new CNN poll both Republicans and Democrats say economy is the number one issue. How does McCain at this point convince Americans that he's the guy to manage the economy?

GERGEN: I think he's going to have a hard time with that, because he's admitted a couple of times in the past he doesn't know much about it. I think it would help to have a vice presidential candidate or someone by his side very soon in his campaign who is a heavy weight in terms of economic policy.

But I do think -- I do agree that it's -- I'm surprised that he's taken this pledge, because it was a trap for George H.W. Bush when he said, "Read my lips," and I think this will become a trap for John McCain should he become president.

The Chamber of Commerce, a very conservative leading organization, has said that taxes will go up under the next president simply to pay for bridges, roads and infrastructure. John McCain himself has promised on environment he's supporting something called cap and trade.

The cap and trade system is one which puts higher prices on corporations that pollute and they will pass that on to consumers. Many people would think that's a tax.

I do not know how he will get a full extension of the full Bush tax cuts through the next Congress, which is likely to be more Democratic, and so taxes are likely to go up on some portions on the population over that fight.

That doesn't even get to health care and other aspects of the environment. So it does seem to me -- maybe it will help win some votes. Ronald Reagan never tried to make that pledge. Reagan said I will fight against higher taxes and make tax increases the last resort, but he never trapped himself this way. I'm surprised John McCain has.

BUCHANAN: David, if you remember, Ronald Reagan ran on cutting taxes 30 percent. That was his major thing.

GERGEN: He did?

BUCHANAN: He ended up cutting them 25 percent. What McCain is saying here is that there will be no new taxes, and he can guarantee that, because he's got a veto pen. He can make certain that doesn't happen.

GERGEN: Bay, you and I know that Ronald Reagan did fight to lower taxes and he was very, very successful at it. But years after that, there were seven different times in which he raised taxes.

BOYKIN: Exactly. Exactly. I think the problem is that the Republican Party has to convince the American people he has some sort of credibility with the economic issue and the people in the country are struggling. They're struggling with the subprime mortgage crisis. They're struggling with not just the housing issue but with health care. And they don't get a sense that the Republican party get it's.

John McCain's pledge is just a sense that he's really irrelevant and not really paying attention to what the American people care about.

BUCHANAN: So much nonsense what John McCain said to middle America and those hard working Americans having trouble with their mortgages is there will be no new taxes on you. At least you will know that much. We'll do what we can on other areas.

In addition to that, he shows much more responsibility than the Democrats over there. What's Barack Obama know about the economy? What is his experience? John McCain can match him any day. What was he, a community activist for heaven's sake? No question the Republicans have the corner on this one.

BOYKIN: How do you pay for an economy, though, where you have no new taxes, no way to continue to support what we need to do with the war in Iraq, with the war on terror, with the health care crisis, with the 47 million people who don't have health insurance, with the increase in poverty, with the infrastructure that David Gergen talked about?

We have a lot of problems. You can't just say we're never going to raise taxes again. To see George Bush there today with John McCain is an indication of where John McCain's campaign is going to be. It's a campaign about the past, not about the future, and the American people care about the future.

BUCHANAN: Yes, they also care about their taxes and they want them cut. Not only do they not want new ones, they want them cut. That's exactly how we pulled out of this last recession when George Bush cut those taxes.

John McCain has seen the enormous benefits of that, and he knows very well that the last answer in these troubled times is to raise taxes on working men and women.

COOPER: David, a final thought from you. Talk about that Bush endorsement today, how important was it particularly with the base?

GERGEN: I think it was symbolically important for America and for rallying some Republicans. It does not do much for him with the base. It helps him going into Texas, and he wanted to do that. He needs to put away Huckabee now with some very, very big victories.

It was a rallying round, but I think Bay would be the first to say, George H.W. Bush does not really speak for the conservative base.

BUCHANAN: Absolutely not especially when he said conservatives shouldn't be treating this poor man this way. He's not one to speak for conservative.

COOPER: Bay Buchanan, Keith Boykin, David Gergen, thank you, all.

GERGEN: Thank you.

BUCHANAN: Thank you, Anderson.

COOPER: Still to come - giving cash to the superdelegates, it's been done for years. No one ever really talked much about it, until now. Is it fair? We're "Keeping Them Honest."

First, let's check in with Erica Hill for our 360 bulletin.

What's up, Erica?

ERICA HILL, HEADLINE NEWS CORRESPONDENT: All right, we're going to start off in Pakistan tonight, Anderson, where partial returns from today's elections are now showing opposition parties have won at least 39 seats in parliament. If either of two main opposition parties do win a two-thirds majority in the parliament, they could then take steps to impeach President Pervez Musharraf.

A warning on this next story: The video is graphic and you may find it disturbing. In fact, it was enough to cause the largest beef recall ever in U.S. history, 143 million pounds. The undercover video from a California slaughterhouse shows sick animals being mistreated, shoved with forklifts and other equipment. There was some concern that the meat could actually make people ill. No cases, though, have been reported.

And a 360 follow for you - the Florida sheriff's deputy caught on tape dumping a paraplegic man out of his wheelchair -- tough to forget this video -- well, she turned herself in. She is charged with felony abuse of a disabled person.

And, Anderson, I know you just saw her a couple of weeks ago, former first lady Nancy Reagan spending a second night in a Santa Monica hospital after falling at her home. Doctors say she did not break her hip, though, and that she should be released tomorrow Anderson.

COOPER: Wow. Well, her son was just on "LARRY KING."


COOPER: Ron Reagan was there, and said that her spirits are good. So, we certainly wish her well and -- and hope she's doing OK.

Up next, Erica, what are they thinking? A confession from Princess Diana's butler. This guy is always in the news for some reason. What he is saying that has people talking. The royal drama is apparently far from over. And no doubt this guy is going to be able to squeeze yet another book about Diana out of it.

Also tonight - paying superdelegates, Obama, Clinton both giving these people money, or at least their campaigns. It has been happening for an awfully long time, Erica. The question is, is it fair?

We're "Keeping Them Honest" when 360 continues.


COOPER: All right, Erica, time for our segment "What Were They Thinking?"

We take you across the pond for a stunning confession from Princess Diana's former butler.

HILL: Again.

COOPER: Yes. Yet again, we're hearing from Paul Burrell.

According to London's newspaper "The Sun," Paul Burrell has admitted he lied to the Princess Diana inquest and now could face arrest for perjury.


COOPER: The paper says -- yes.

The paper says it's uncovered a video of Burrell confessing he withheld details of a conversation he had with the queen months after Diana's death in a Paris car crash back in '97. Now, on the video, Burrell also boasts of raking in millions of dollars on his royal connections.


HILL: Uh-huh.

COOPER: He rambles on and on and acknowledges he could be facing a hard time.

Here's some of the tape.


PAUL BURRELL, FORMER ROYAL BUTLER: Perjury is not a very nice thing to have to consider. I told the truth as far as I could. But I didn't tell the whole truth.

It was very naughty. And it led to a couple of red herrings. And I couldn't -- I couldn't help do it. And I know you shouldn't play with justice. And I know it's illegal. I do realize -- I realize how serious it is.


HILL: Naughty and illegal.

COOPER: Yes, naughty. Yes.

HILL: But, hey, who cares?

COOPER: I did add some red herrings.

This is a guy, by the way, who has made -- he has written four books. We checked on this on Amazon, four books, two of them about Diana and working for her, and then two of them are entertaining. One was, like, entertaining in the style of Princess Diana.

HILL: What?

COOPER: Yes. And the other was -- so, no doubt, there's yet another book. He always seems to come up with like new details and mysterious letters and...

HILL: He does, and the things that he just happens to remember.

But you know what was interesting? One of the things I loved is, in the tape he said, really, he went to testify at the inquiry because his marketing people and his merchandising people said he really should go. Otherwise, it would look bad.

But he goes on to say, hey, I'm not making money off of Diana.

No, no, no, no, no.


HILL: Uh-huh.


I have always avoided interviewing him, frankly, like, because it seems like playing into it.

HILL: Yes.

COOPER: Any way, I won't go on.

HILL: Slimy.

COOPER: Up next - those mysterious superdelegates. Senators Obama and Clinton gave lots of campaigns to their -- or lots of cash to their campaigns -- maybe even some campaigns to their cash. And now they may decide the election.

Coming up, we're "Keeping Them Honest" about the cash that ended up in the campaigns of superdelegates.

And one of the youngest superdelegates around will join us. We will see if he has gotten any cash so far. Last time we talked, he hadn't.

And cue the cheesy music. That's right. Here's tonight's "Beat 360."

President Bush speaks to women in Tanzania who are waiting to receive vouchers for mosquito nets to combat malaria. There's the picture.

Here's the caption from our staff winner, Sean (ph). "Is it just a coincidence that you all sat to the left of me?"

Yes, I know.

COOPER: Think you can do better, go to Send us your submission. We will announce the winner at the end of the program.

And, of course, we're live blogging.

Erica, have you started live blogging yet?

HILL: I thought you were supposed to start, Anderson.

COOPER: I have started already.

HILL: It's your show. I have got to follow your lead.

COOPER: Yes, you have got to get on there.

COOPER: All right.

We will be right back.


COOPER: So, by now, we all know that superdelegates may end up choosing the Democratic presidential nominee.

Now, tonight, we're on the money trail that is becoming part of the story. Senators Clinton and Obama have both thrown cash -- and a lot of it -- into the campaign chests of fellow Democrats who also just happen to be superdelegates.

So, tonight, we're wondering, could all that cash tip the scales at the Democratic Convention?

"Keeping Them Honest," here's CNN's David Mattingly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Over the last three years, Senators Clinton and Obama gave at least $890,000 combined to Democratic candidates, says the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics.

Many of these former candidates are now superdelegates, the very people who could end up picking the next nominee.

(on camera): Is it fair to say that these candidates were trying to buy these delegates?

MASSIE RITSCH, CENTER FOR RESPONSIVE POLITICS: I don't think it's fair to say that, no. I think what is happening is that these candidates were building relationships. They were doing what all politicians do.

MATTINGLY: Since 2005, the center says that Senator Clinton contributed more than $200,000 to superdelegates and that Senator Obama handed out almost $700,000.

"Keeping Them Honest," we asked the campaigns if they're concerned that voters might view this as buying superdelegate votes. Clinton spokesman Jay Carson said, "Senator Clinton has contributed to the races of some strong candidates, who also happen to be superdelegates."

Obama's spokesman, Bill Burden, said, "The assertion is ridiculous. Obama has been a supporter of Democrats all over the country and will continue to be as president."

(voice-over) We asked superdelegates the same question. Senator Claire McCaskill's campaign in Missouri got $10,000 from Obama in 2006.

SEN. CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D), MISSOURI: I don't think that has anything to do with it. I think Barack Obama is the strongest candidate to bring us all together. That's why I'm supporting him.

MATTINGLY: A similar reply from the office of Ohio Governor Ted Strickland, who received $10,000 from Hillary Clinton in 2006 and endorses her in this critical primary.

His spokeswoman said, "She's the best qualified candidate to turn around Ohio's economy and lead the nation from her first day in office."

But if you want to find a pattern in this sea of dollar signs, the Center for Responsive Politics says look at the dozens of superdelegates who got money from both.

MASSIE RITSCH, CENTER FOR RESPONSIVE POLITICS: The candidate who gave the superdelegate the most money almost always won the endorsement.

MATTINGLY (on camera): And what does that tell you? RITSCH: That suggests there's a correlation. It doesn't necessarily mean that there's a causation. But it is a measurement of friendship. And if we're trying to predict who these superdelegates will side with going into the convention, money might be a pretty good predictor.

MATTINGLY: As good a predicator as any in a race that so far has defied predictions.


COOPER: So who's getting more bang for the buck here? Do we know?

MATTINGLY: When you look at Obama, he managed to build a lot of bridges. But when you look at these contributions, it's more than just money at work here. This is networking in action.

And Democrats tell us this came at a time when there were a lot of Democrats helping other Democrats in a critical election cycle. Hillary Clinton herself was running for re-election in 2006. Guess who contributed to her campaign? Barack Obama, a total of $4,200.

COOPER: Interesting stuff. David Mattingly, appreciate it. Thanks. "Keeping Them Honest" tonight.

Up next, you're going to meet a young superdelegate, perhaps a super young superdelegate. There he is. He hadn't gotten any cash when last we met, but for sure he's gotten to meet a lot of potential presidents. We'll talk to him in just a moment.


COOPER (voice-over): They could end up picking the Democratic nominee. Meet a superdelegate who's younger than most voters.

Also tonight, only on 360.

JESSICA BATY, GIRLFRIEND OF STEVEN KAZMIERCZAK: I don't know how he could have had a double life. I was in his life.

COOPER: The campus killer she loved; the warning signs and the chilling revelations that tragically only make sense after the fact. The 360 exclusive tonight.



COOPER: That's a picture of 21-year-old Jason Rae with Michelle Obama. Also have a picture of him with Chelsea Clinton. Both campaigns are lobbying him hard.

Rae is a junior at Marquette University in Wisconsin. He's also one of the youngest members of the Democratic National Committee and a superdelegate. When we talked with him last week, he was undecided. And unlike other superdelegates, he hadn't really gotten any cash yet. He joins us again tonight on the eve of the Wisconsin primary.

Got to ask you again, have you gotten any cash yet, Jason, from any of the campaigns?

JASON RAE, DEMOCRATIC SUPERDELEGATE: I haven't gotten anything from them. I'm OK with that.

COOPER: All right. I think it's a good thing if you don't.

Have you made up your mind?

RAE: I'll be honest with you, I have not. I'm actually kind of getting nervous about heading into the polling booth tomorrow and, you know, having to put that checkmark somewhere. I think we've got two qualified candidates. And I -- as I said last time, I'd be happy to go either way.

COOPER: So now name all the folks you've met with. We see a picture of you there with Senator Clinton, Senator Obama. You also met with -- who? -- Michelle Obama.

RAE: I've met with, you know, almost anyone, everyone you can think of by this point in the race. I've met with, you know -- talked to President Clinton. I've talked to Chelsea Clinton, met with her, talked to Madeleine Albright, met with Michelle Obama, talked to Senator John Kerry, talked to Wisconsin's lieutenant governor, talked to Congresswoman Tammy Baldwin. I've talked to the mayor of Milwaukee. I've talked to -- you know, everyone and anyone is trying to court my vote.

COOPER: What have you learned just talking to these folks? I mean, this is a unique perspective. You're 21 years old. Most people -- I've never gotten a call from Madeleine Albright or, you know, Bill Clinton or anyone. What -- what do you learn from them? I mean, what's it like being on the receiving end of this pressure?

RAE: You know, I've learned a great deal about how the campaign is actually operating. One of the nice things about these calls is they're able to provide me with insight into what's happening on the ground.

Unfortunately, as much as I would love to travel all over the country and see what's happening at rallies and events throughout, you know, the U.S., I'm stuck here in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, you know, attending classes and things.

So they're -- these surrogates are able to give me, you know, an up-close and personal look at how many people are standing in line and attending a rally, how many people are waiting at a polling booth all day and what the general idea of support is out there around the country.

COOPER: You know, there are a lot of folks who are listening to this who think, "Look, you seem like a nice guy, but you should not have more of a say in this process than anyone else."

I want to read you something that Wisconsin Representative Ron Kind said recently. He said -- I quote -- "The superdelegate system smacks the average person as elitist and antidemocratic, and I don't think it belongs in our elective process. No person's vote should count more than anyone else's."

Do you agree with that?

RAE: You know, Ron Kind is a great member of Congress. He was my own for a couple of years until we redistricted.

COOPER: You sound like a politician right there.

RAE: I -- Ron's great. However, I do completely disagree with him. I think that the first thing I'd like to point out about superdelegates is we were all elected ourselves from our respective groups.

For myself, I was elected by the Democratic Party of Wisconsin. And I held that election back in June of 2004, you know, they were able to trust my judgment. I mean, I've had to take key votes as a member of the DNC for the past four years on things from electing a new chairman to, you know, setting a primary calendar. And they've been able to respect my judgment then.

I think one of the important things to note is that, you know, superdelegates, you know, should be given the opportunity to decide for themselves.

COOPER: Do you think they -- do you think they should vote with who carries the popular vote in their congressional district, or their state or for the party's best candidate?

RAE: I think they should vote for the party's best candidate. I think that superdelegates, you know, have had a unique opportunity, much like the voters do, to interact with the candidates on a one-on- one basis or with representatives from their campaign. And I think that superdelegates are charged specifically with, you know, trying to decide what's in the best interest of the party.

Superdelegates are, you know, average people, just like myself. Yes, there are members of Congress who are superdelegates, but there's also, you know, a group of 440-some of us who are members of the DNC who are just regular people out there volunteering, and we're representing the average people.

COOPER: You're 21. You're a junior -- is that right -- at Marquette?

RAE: I am, yes.

COOPER: Are you going to run for office?

RAE: Some day I'd love to run for office. I mean, I remember back in kindergarten -- I know that this is something that got Senator Obama in trouble for a while, but I always said that some day I wanted to run for president myself.

COOPER: Yes, well, I think it may happen. Who knows? If you do run for president, give us the first interview.

RAE: I will give you guys the exclusive interview, Anderson. No problem.

COOPER: We'll hold you to that. Jason, thanks very much.

Erica, 21 years old. This guy is a superdelegate.

ERICA HILL, HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: How about that. He actually told me last week that when he was in kindergarten, he knew he wanted to be president then.


HILL: At 5.

COOPER: Yes. Amazing.

Now, you know, I was trying to think back to what I was doing when I was 21. I actually have no memory of, like, the years between the ages of 11 and, like, 24.

HILL: Yes.

COOPER: But I did find a picture of you at 21.

HILL: Yes.

COOPER: Do we have that?

HILL: It's a classic. Isn't it?

COOPER: Anyone?

HILL: It was a good look.

COOPER: There it was. That was you at 21.

HILL: It's funny, because when I was 21, I had a really hard time, you know, getting into bars...


HILL: ... because I had such a young face.

COOPER: A young face, yes, but the mullet worked wonders.

HILL: The hair is so grown up.

COOPER: All you had to do is just point to the mullet.

HILL: And they said, "Come on in." Yes. How about that?

COOPER: That's right.

HILL: I think we actually have a picture of you, though, from maybe -- a little before 11.

COOPER: Oh, yes?

HILL: Perhaps in the archives somewhere? There it is.


HILL: It's not quite a mullet, but it was a really nice hat.

COOPER: Yes, I had purple hair. Yes.

HILL: I think it's going to be 32 or something here in New York tomorrow, so maybe you should pull that out.

COOPER: Yes, I was 9 years old then. So no, I was 9. That's from "To Tell the Truth," in case you're wondering.

HILL: It was a good look. I liked it.

COOPER: Yes. Erica, thanks.

Up next -- also, you can check in to our blog. We're live blogging all during the program. I don't know that Erica's actually begun to live blog.

HILL: I have blogged, my friend.

COOPER: All right.

HILL: Indeed I have.

COOPER: I wait with baited breath to read Erica's blog.; we're live blogging.

Up next, the campus killer; a 360 exclusive. She said she knew the Northern Illinois University killer better than anyone, and she's only talking to CNN. The interview with the killer's girlfriend you haven't seen when 360 continues.


COOPER: A picture of Jessica Baty and Steven Kazmierczak. He killed five people on Thursday on the campus of Northern Illinois University before killing himself.

And Jessica thought her boyfriend was actually coming home to her for Valentine's Day after visiting his sick godfather. We know now, of course, that is not what he was doing. Tonight, she speaks to us for the first time.

Abbie Boudreau of CNN Special Investigations Unit Went up close with Jessica Baty and joins us now from Chicago -- Abbie.

ABBIE BOUDREAU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, Jessica Baty was extremely emotional. Sometimes she just broke down and cried. She didn't want to believe that the person she was closest to was a monster. Looking back, she sees her memories in a whole new light.


BATY: What's going on, puppy?

BOUDREAU (voice-over): It was less than a year ago. Jessica Baty recalls that she and her boyfriend were talking about the shooting rampage at Virginia Tech.

BATY: He was never like, "Look at how cool that is." He never said anything like that.

BOUDREAU (on camera): What did he say?

BATY: He was just like, "Look at what's happening." It was -- we were in shock.

BOUDREAU (voice-over): Now that boyfriend, Steven Kazmierczak, is dead after committing a similar mass murder, using several guns, killing five students and wounding 16 others before turning one of the guns on himself.

BATY: He was friendly and talkative and always went to class, always did his homework. He did homework before it was even due. He was an overachiever.

BOUDREAU: They were a couple for two years, and Baty says she knew Steven better than anyone.

(on camera) Listening to you talk, it's almost like he had a double life.

BATY: I -- I don't know how he could have had a double life. I was -- I was in his life all the time. I don't...

BOUDREAU (voice-over): They lived together and went to grad school. She is studying to be a social worker. He studied criminology and planned to go to law school.

(on camera) Looking back, are there any warning signs?

BATY: I was with him all the time. How could I have not seen this coming? And I feel partly responsible, because maybe I should have seen something. I...

BOUDREAU (voice-over): Baty knew Kazmierczak kept two guns in the home they shared. He liked having them for protection and enjoyed going to the shooting range.

Baty says she had no idea Kazmierczak bought two more guns only weeks before the shooting, and those guns would provide another eerie link to Virginia Tech.


COOPER: Up next, Abbie joins us with more on the eerie connection between what happened at Northern Illinois University and Virginia Tech, that and how Jessica now feels about her boyfriend- turned killer.

Also tonight, a Major League Baseball star apologizes for taking human growth hormone, HGH.


COOPER: You're seeing video of police rushing to the scene last Thursday following the deadly shootings at Northern Illinois University. More on that now from CNN's Abbie Boudreau and her exclusive interview with the killer's girlfriend, Jessica Baty.



BOUDREAU (voice-over): Jessica Baty says her boyfriend Steven Kazmierczak was horrified by the killings at Virginia Tech. But at some point, and we'll probably never know when, he decided to replicate that crime.

And, in a chilling twist, Kazmierczak bought ammunition and a holster from the same Internet gun dealer that sold one of the guns used at Virginia Tech.

BATY: Oh, my God. He did this while I was at work. Like...

BOUDREAU: Baty says Kazmierczak was battling anxiety and had obsessive-compulsive tendencies. She says he stopped taking his anti- depressants three weeks before the shooting but seemed fine.

BATY: He had taken medications before when he was at the group home, and he just -- he wanted to deal with his problems and not have to use medication.

BOUDREAU: Since the shooting, few clues about why he suddenly acted.

BATY: FBI and detectives -- I don't even know. They went through my apartment and all of our stuff, and they were pulling out all these books. And I'm like, those are textbooks. Those aren't -- how to shoot people.

BOUDREAU (on camera): Any specific books that you can think of?

BATY: They took "The Encyclopedia of Serial Killers."

BOUDREAU (voice-over): Baty says Kazmierczak also mailed her some books, a purse, a cell phone, some cash, and a holster and ammunition. She's at a loss to make sense of it all. (on camera) And do you still love him?

BATY: Yes. I do still love him.

BOUDREAU: Is it hard to love him, though?

BATY: No, it's not. Because I know who the real Steve, and that person that went to NIU was not the real Steven.


COOPER: It is so hard for any family member of someone who's struggling with a mental illness.

What did police ask her about?

BOUDREAU: Well, they did talk to her. They wanted to find out exactly what she knew, and she insisted she didn't know anything.

Now, as a matter of fact, when they brought her to the police station, she didn't even know why she was there until police officers actually mentioned that it had something to do with the NIU shooting. And of course, she thinks, "Oh, my boyfriend was a victim." She didn't think, "My boyfriend was the gunman."

COOPER: You know, they always say these gunmen are loners, but this guy was living with Jessica. I mean is there a sense of how close they were?

BOUDREAU: Well, from everything that she told us, they were extremely close. They were together for two years. They'd been living together for one year.

And this is really interesting, Anderson. The Tuesday before the shooting, he asked her what her ring size was. So she's thinking all along, "We're going to get married. We're going to be married. We're going to be happy and be a normal couple."

COOPER: Just horrible. Abbie, appreciate the reporting. Thanks. Abbie Boudreau.

Coming up on 360, an extraordinary rescue at sea off the coast of New Zealand. You will not want to miss these pictures. It is our "Shot" tonight.

First Erica Hill joins us with the "360 Bulletin." Erica.

HILL: And Anderson, the U.S. now recognizing Kosovo as an independent and sovereign state. That move comes just one day after the Balkan territory declared its independence from Serbia, sparking celebration in the streets.

President Bush promised Kosovo, quote, "Washington will be your partner and friend." Serbia now says it will withdraw its ambassador to Washington. The U.S. Navy tells CNN it will likely try on Thursday to shoot down that U.S. spy satellite filled with toxic fuel before the satellite enters Earth's atmosphere. The satellite hasn't been functioning properly since it was launched 14 months ago.

And New York Yankees pitcher Andy Pettitte apologizing to his fans as well as current and former teammates today for using human growth hormone twice during his career. Pettitte says he was just trying to help heal his elbow injuries, Anderson.

COOPER: Thanks. All right, Erica.

Cue the cheesy music. Crank it up. It's time for tonight's "Beat 360." In case you haven't heard, here's how it works. We put a picture on the 360 blog and ask you to come up with a caption for it that's better than one of ours.

That's the picture there, President Bush speaking to women in Tanzania, who are waiting to receive vouchers for mosquito netting to combat malaria. Our staff winner was Sean. Her entry was, "Is it just a coincidence that you all sat to the left of me?"

Tonight's viewer winner is Christiane from Antwerp, Belgium. Her caption, "I almost wore the same thing today. How awkward would that have been, huh?"

That was pretty good. I kind of like that. I think that's our first international winner. So congratulations there.

HILL: Very nice.

COOPER: Check out the other ideas - 360. And, of course, feel free to pay [SIC] along. Or play along.

HILL: Whatever works.


HILL: It's a Monday.

COOPER: It is. It's been a long weekend.

Just ahead, "The Shot," a dramatic rescue off the coast of New Zealand, where a racing yacht capsizes -- have you seen this, Erica -- tossing ten sailors into the sea.

HILL: Crazy.

COOPER: Yes. Their story is next on 360. We'll be right back.


COOPER: I know you all have been waiting for our next Voice of 360? Did you notice I said y'all? I said y'all.

HILL: I'm not saying y'all. COOPER: I was in New Orleans, and I think I picked up a y'all.

HILL: Great word.

COOPER: I'm not from there, so I shouldn't be saying y'all. Anyway...

HILL: That's all right.

COOPER: Well...

HILL: You've got southern roots.

COOPER: My dad's from Mississippi.

HILL: See?

COOPER: So it's sort of OK.

HILL: I'm from Connecticut, and I'm saying it.

COOPER: I'm a politician that's suddenly, you know, changing how I speak to various audiences.

If you've been waiting for our next Voice of 360, you're going to have to wait just a little bit longer. We debut our next candidate Wednesday night. We thought it was going to be tonight, but we're a little short on time. So I promise it will be worth the wait.

In the meantime, you can check out the others at

Now, "The Shot," a dramatic rescue at sea off the coast of New Zealand. Take a look. Ten French sailors whose racing yacht capsized today off the coast there. They were whisked to safety by a helicopter.

They were competing in a round-the-world race, and their yacht apparently overturned shortly after it passed the halfway mark. They made it halfway. They sent out a distress signal, and they waited for help.

Luckily, there was no injuries, just some major disappointment.

The sailors left the English Channel 24 days ago. They were actually on track to beat the record for the grueling race when they capsized. So, bad news for them.

HILL: Isn't it amazing that they made it that far in 24 days?

COOPER: I know. It's crazy. The crew was lucky. I mean, today was the closest they'd actually been to land since the start of the race. If they'd capsized yesterday, they might have been in the middle of the Indian Ocean.

The record for the race, by the way, 50 days, 16 hours, 20 minutes and 4 seconds. If you see some crews capsizing or remarkable videos, tell us about it - While you're there, you can check out -- well, there's everything there, really, Erica.

HILL: Pretty much everything you want.

COOPER: Yes. Segments from other programs...

HILL: Except for pictures of Anderson with a mullet.

COOPER: But we do have the picture of Erica with the mullet. I hope we have that up there.

Up next, 21-year-old superdelegate Jason Rae. We talked with him earlier tonight. He's being courted by campaigns. It's what's on the radar when 360 continues.


COOPER: On the radar, the presidential race - the hot topic in our blog as it often is.

Shawn from Pennsylvania wrote this about Jason Rae, the 21-year- old Democratic superdelegate who was on the show again tonight. "This is great for you and Jason and great for America. The best hope for us in the years to come is that younger generations get infused into the process and turn U.S. politics into the modern era.

I think this election is the start of that trend and you are a part of it. Pay not attention to those who dismiss your youth and enthusiasm as a liability, instead act on it, be proud of yourself and live it up, dude!"

Linda of Boulder, Colorado had this note of caution, "I got so excited about 'Rock the Vote' last time around, and expected a big turn out, in the general election, when it never really happened. Hope a wide range of citizens vote this year - all ages, races, gender, classes.

We always welcome your comments, of course, and your feedback. Go to and link to the blog. We also did a live-blogging during the show. Join us in on that tomorrow night.

For our international viewers, CNN Today is next. Here in America, Larry King is coming up.

Thanks for watching. And I'll see you tomorrow night.