Return to Transcripts main page

ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

New York Shooting Rampage Leaves 14 Dead; Iowa Court Rules in Favor of Gay Marriage; Setback for Madonna's New Adoption; Michelle Obama Meets Carla Sarkozy

Aired April 3, 2009 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: We have breaking news on many fronts, serious news.

Right now, we are monitoring developments in North Korea, where the launch window just opened for test-firing a long-range missile capable of hitting parts of the United States. The North Koreans are calling it a satellite launch. If the rocket goes up, we will let you know as soon as we do.

But the other major story still unfolding at this minute, the nightmare in Binghamton, New York, 13 people killed at a center for helping immigrants and global refugees, some of them fleeing random violence and terror in their own countries, only to find violence right here at home.

The gunman, who also apparently killed himself, has now been identified as Jiverly Voong. From Binghamton's mayor tonight, we're learning the man had recently lost his job and had told his family he really didn't like his life.

Police tonight searching his home. A vigil under way not far from the crime scene. People in Binghamton and across the country searching for comfort and for answers. In a moment, we will have the daughter of one of the women who escaped death by hiding in the boiler room.

But, first Randi Kaye with how the horror unfolded.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 10:30 a.m., Upstate New York in the small city of Binghamton, pure horror erupts. A man opens fire at the American Civic Association in a room full of people taking a citizenship class.

Police say the shooter had blocked the backdoor exit with his car before he enters the front. The man has two handguns. He shoots two receptionists. One dies. The other pretends to be dead and calls 911.

JOSEPH ZIKUSKI, BINGHAMTON, NEW YORK, POLICE CHIEF: He went into a room off the reception area, shot several people. And as he exited, he went down the hallway in the building, she crawled underneath a desk and some time after that she called us. KAYE: Up to 60 people are trapped inside. Dozens huddle quietly in the boiler room, hiding throughout the ordeal. Hostage negotiators arrive. So does the FBI. SWAT sharpshooters take positions around the building, looking for a shot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got Army Reserve down there. There's SWAT teams in the back. They're sighted on. You have snipers on the roof. This is the real deal here.

KAYE: Then word comes four are dead, and the gunman is still inside. Instant-message boards are on fire online. Some have loved ones inside.

LISA BEHR, EYEWITNESS: About 11:30, some hostages being released. About 15 people, mostly women at that time, came out. The hey were crying.

KAYE: The neighborhood is evacuated, Binghamton High School locked down.

(on camera): Here's why. We will start out of New York. Going to take you right down to Binghamton, fly you in on our Google Earth map, so, you can take a look at where this all happened today.

It all went down at the American Civic Association building, which we're going to show you. That's it right there, OK? So, that's where everything happened. Now, let me show you the neighborhood in this area. Here's the building. If we take you over this way from the ground view, you can see there's a church there on the corner. There are many homes, small businesses.

So, you can see why this area would have been evacuated. It's just a few blocks from the main downtown area of Binghamton. So, if a gunman left this building, he would have ended up in a very busy, densely populated area of Binghamton.

(voice-over): By earlier afternoon, at least 12 dead. Then comes word the gunman is dead. Police say the suspect took his own life. He was Jiverly Voong, a local man in his early 40s.

ZIKUSKI: Among the dead, there's a male victim that has a satchel around his neck or arms. And there is ammunition in there.

KAYE: Only four hours had lapsed before it finally ended. Thirty-seven hostages are released. Four others, critically wounded, are taken to the hospital -- 13 victims dead. And the one man who could tell us what anger, what rage triggered this awful rampage, the gunman himself, is gone.

Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, tonight, any clue as to why this happened are going to -- is going to have to come from the gunman's home, what he might have said to acquaintances, and what, if anything, his actions inside the immigrant center may reveal.

Joining us now is Anay Osorio, who is very lucky. Her mother, Maria (ph), survived the assault. Maria and other members of her English class fled to the building's boiler room, where she was in constant contact with her daughter, Anay, by cell phone.

Anay, when did your mom know that there was danger?

ANAY OSORIO, DAUGHTER OF SHOOTING HOSTAGE: Around 10:30 in the morning.

COOPER: What did she -- she heard shots?

OSORIO: Yes, she called me and she said she heard some shots and she's trying to ask me to find out where they come from, if I hear anything on the news.

COOPER: Did she see the gunman?

OSORIO: No.

COOPER: So, what happened after she heard the shots?

OSORIO: They were moved from one room, where she was taking the class, to next -- to another room next to where she was. And they locked the door, and they stayed there all the time.

COOPER: How many people were in that room? It was the boiler room. How many people were inside?

OSORIO: I believe she told me it was 26 people.

COOPER: And I understand it was a pretty small room, so it was a pretty uncomfortable situation. Everyone must have been incredibly frightened.

OSORIO: Yes, yes.

COOPER: How often was she talking to you on the phone?

OSORIO: Between my husband and myself, we was trying to tell her to make contact with us every five minutes, just to make sure that she was OK, that she's still alive, and nothing else was happening over there.

COOPER: And what sorts of things was she saying to you during this time?

OSORIO: Not much. We were trying to tell her to be calm and just to lock the door and to be there and be quiet.

Her phone was on silent. And all what she was doing sometimes was just calling us. And we can see from the caller I.D. that it was her, but she wasn't talking too much.

COOPER: And I think, at some point, she asked you to watch TV to try to get some information, because they didn't really know what was going on, right? What were able to tell her?

OSORIO: Exactly, yes.

COOPER: In the beginning, I didn't say anything to her. I was trying to be calm and make sure she was calm, too, as well, because I know she was worried about it, what was going on over there. So, to be a daughter, I was just trying to be calm and not worry her about it.

COOPER: Well, I'm so glad that she and the others are OK who were in that room.

Anay, I appreciate you being with us. Thank you very much. Give your mom our best.

OSORIO: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: A lot of people online already talking about the shooting.

Let us know what you think about it. Join the live chat happening now at AC360.com. And check out Erica Hill's live Webcasts during the break.

There's a lot of important stories tonight. We're going to have more in a moment on the shooter, a forensic psychologist and a former top FBI negotiator on what makes these gunmen -- and, yes, it is always almost men -- almost always men -- what makes them tick and explode.

Also, tonight, history made in the heartland -- an Iowa court rules that gay and lesbians have a constitutionally protected right to marry -- the latest on the stunning decision and why it's not likely to be overturned by a vote anytime soon.

And, later, what happens when two superstar first ladies meet -- Michelle Obama and Carla Bruni Sarkozy sharing the global spotlight tonight on 360.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Breaking news tonight in the wake of today's brutality in Binghamton, New York -- police searching gunman Jiverly Voong's home, that as stories are emerging from the immigration aid center where he shot 13 people dead, critically wounded four others, then, according to authorities, shot himself.

Survivors describing no screams, just shooting, silence, and then more shooting. Neighbors describing Mr. Voong as a quiet man. How many times have we heard that, though?

Joining me now, forensic psychologist Kris Mohandie, and former senior FBI hostage negotiator Byron Sage. Chris, from what we know of the crime, Jiverly Voong leaving a car blocking the backdoor, barricades himself inside, then ultimately kills himself, what do you make of his actions?

KRIS MOHANDIE, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Very similar to what we see with other mass murderers.

Cho actually barricaded one of the doors to prevent people from escaping. It's part of his agenda to...

COOPER: In Virginia Tech.

MOHANDIE: ... part of his agenda to hurt as many people as he can.

On top of it, you know, committing suicide is the usual outcome here. So, we have a man who was bent on killing as many people as he could. Fortunately, many people were able to keep themselves safe from him. And, ultimately, he does what they typically do at the end, kill -- kill himself.

COOPER: Byron, how do negotiators work with others on the scene, like we saw today? You have got SWAT, police, FBI. What is the first thing you try to do in a situation with hostages?

BYRON SAGE, FORMER FBI HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Try to establish that link, that communication. Try to derail him from that -- that plan that Kris had talked about. It can be quite challenging.

COOPER: It's got to be especially challenging, Byron, with someone who's willing to kill themselves or -- and/or may be planning that all along.

SAGE: That's -- it's -- part of the negotiator's role is to try to give this individual a glimpse of hope that it's not a hopeless, helpless type situation.

Oftentimes, an individual has had a recent major life stressor. I just heard in your preparation for this piece that he had just lost his job. As they dig deeper, we will probably find that he had some other difficulties as well. He didn't just drive up to this place and say, I think I will go in and kill some people.

COOPER: And, Kris, you don't think it was an accident that he chose to block one of the exits with -- with his car. I mean, do -- how planned out are these kinds of shootings?

MOHANDIE: These shootings are all pre-planned, often, you know, well in advance, you know, to bring multiple weapons, to secure buildings, to prevent people from escaping.

These people have taken the anger and the animosity that they have had for, oftentimes, years, and channeled it into a plan that is part of why they're so described often as cool, calm, and collected.

It is a fantasy of violence that they believe will restore that -- that sense of having been wronged. And it will be the solution to their hopelessness and powerlessness by making other people suffer and being remembered.

COOPER: So, Byron, was this just a hostage situation, or was it -- was it a massacre?

SAGE: I don't know enough about the facts. We probably won't for a number of days.

But, given what we do know, it seems that he had this planned out pretty succinctly. It would have been difficult to try to interrupt that plan, to try to get him sidetracked, talking to the negotiator, instead of inflicting injury on the -- on the hostages.

COOPER: And, Kris, in a killing spree like this, is -- I mean, is there always a -- kind of a clear-cut motive? Is there -- is there always a clear path?

MOHANDIE: Usually, there will be a clear-cut motive that will emerge. It is either a real or perceived grievance, real for somebody that may have, you know, had an issue with the center.

Or, alternatively, he may have perceived that, you know, they represented something that cost him his job, if that becomes the reason. It could be delusional. But, invariably, there is a reason, sometimes based in reality, sometimes not. More often than not, with adults, it's not based in reality, but paranoia.

COOPER: It's -- it's just a horrific event.

And -- and, Kris, I mean, you dealt with a lot of stuff like this. Do you ever get used to seeing this?

MOHANDIE: You know, you can never really get used to seeing it, because you know what the ripple effect is going to be in all the people that are going to be impacted by this event, both the people that have lost loved ones in the incident and those that have been touched forever by this catastrophe, by surviving it, and then the people that -- you know, the victims' families.

You know, it is the sort of thing that that -- that that pain and that agony and that trauma, you never -- you never get used to it. You -- you understand it, but you -- you don't get used to it.

COOPER: Yes, even those who survive, their lives in some cases, will be forever changed.

Kris Mohandie, appreciate it.

MOHANDIE: Thank you.

COOPER: And, Byron Sage, thank you for your expertise.

SAGE: Thank you.

COOPER: We're going to have a live report from Binghamton in a little bit.

But we want to tell you about the interesting developments with President Obama in France today, his blunt talk at a town hall meeting in Strasbourg about American arrogance and European anti-Americanism. He is calling for everyone to put all of that stuff behind us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We must renew this relationship for a new generation, in a new century. We must hold firm to our common values, hold firm to our faith in one another. Together, I'm confident that we can achieve the promise of a new day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: As mentioned at the top of the hour this breaking news, we're also continuing to monitor developments out of North Korea for signs of a long-range missile test -- they say it's a test -- that the president has warned will be met by a swift, stern global answer. We will tell you any developments as warranted.

And, later, a judge crushes Madonna's hopes to adopt another child from Malawi. But there are new developments to tell you about -- coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: President Obama is now in France.

In a few hours, the NATO summit begins, the 60th anniversary of the NATO alliance. But it's not just a photo (AUDIO GAP) get European countries to commit more (AUDIO GAP) troops to fight in Afghanistan. So far, many of them are unwilling to do.

The president and Michelle Obama -- you see it there -- they arrived in Strasbourg, France, today. They were greeted warmly by French President -- President Nicolas Sarkozy and first lady Carla Bruni Sarkozy, hugs and kisses all around. They kiss twice on the cheek there.

President Obama also held a campaign-style town hall meeting, surprising not just for the blunt talk, in which the president said that the U.S. had been arrogant in the past and that Europeans have been too eager to engage in anti-Americanism, but also for the candor that he shared with thousands of young people.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: So I have come to Europe this week to renew our partnership, one in which America listens and learns from our friends and allies, but where our friends and allies bear their share of the burden.

And as we restore our common prosperity, we must stand up for our common security.

The United States of America did not choose to fight a war in Afghanistan. We were attacked by an al Qaeda network that killed thousands on American soil, including French and Germans. Along the border of Afghanistan and Pakistan, those terrorists are still plotting today.

And they're -- if there is another al Qaeda attack, it is just as likely, if not more, that it will be here in Europe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want to know what do you expect from the French and the European countries regarding the war on terror?

OBAMA: After the initial NATO engagement in Afghanistan, we got sidetracked by Iraq.

And we have not fully recovered that initial insight that we have a mutual interest in ensuring that organizations like al Qaeda cannot operate.

And -- and I think that it is important for Europe to understand that, even though I'm now president, and George Bush is no longer president, al Qaeda is still a threat, and that we cannot pretend somehow that because Barack Hussein Obama got elected as president, suddenly everything is going to be okay.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And, first of all, I wanted to tell you that your name in Hungarian means "peach," if you -- you...

OBAMA: Peach?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

OBAMA: Oh, okay. Well, how about that? I did not know that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Now you know it.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We wanted to know if you -- did you ever regret to have run for presidency until now?

OBAMA: You know, there are -- there have been times, certainly, during the campaign, and there have been times over the last several months where you feel a lot of weight on your shoulders.

You also lose privacy and autonomy -- or anonymity.

But, having said all that, I truly believe that there's nothing more noble than public service.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: In that town hall meeting, President Obama said he would seek a world without nuclear weapons. But, again and again, the emphasis was summed by his saying, America is changing, but it can -- cannot be America alone that changes.

Senior political analyst David Gergen joins us now.

David, it's an interesting line that President Obama is trying to straddle. On the one hand, he's basically saying, yes, I'm here, and there -- there are going to be changes in America. But, on the other hand, he's saying, not everything is going to be different from the Bush administration, and you have to change. Europe, you have to change as well.

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

All along, in this trip, Anderson, the changes have been in tone, not -- more than in substance. I think, tonally, he has done very well on this trip. He obviously has a good ear for the European audience. He has sent a message of conciliation and reconciliation between America and Europe.

But, substantive -- substantively, he has achieved less than he had hoped or that the American side would have wanted, say, at the -- at the G-20 meeting. He didn't get the stimulus package. He's -- on the NATO meeting tomorrow, he's not going to get more troops from France and probably not many from other countries as well as he had once hoped.

But, tonally and politically, it's been a -- it's been a really good trip for him. And I think that, by going and presenting himself to that audience today, in the same way that he presented himself to so many campaign audiences before the election, that was obviously a -- that tough-love kind of message was a winner in the United States in the elections. And I think it's going to go down well in Europe.

COOPER: It's interesting, though, because, clearly, a lot of these world leaders want to be seen with him. Nicolas Sarkozy today was, you know, touching his back. And they were clearly very affectionate with one another.

And, yet, as you said, when behind closed doors, they're not going to give more troops to Afghanistan. They're -- they may give some more police instructors, but only in areas that have been pacified, not boots on the ground in the really, you know, death zone.

GERGEN: Well, I that that's -- that's his problem, isn't it, as leader? You know, leadership is about more than about making nice, you know, handshakes and a lot of smiles. It's actually about changing what people do, your constituents or your followers.

And he has had a hard time so far doing that. But, you know, for a first trip, this has been a big, big plus for him. And he's -- it's his international debut. You have been there. You have seen it. You have seen how positive the response has been from the crowds, from the press. He has won enormous plaudits for -- partly for not being George Bush, and, you know, representing a departure, but partly because he has this winsome personality. But I think, still, for him, with these unemployment numbers that have come out today that Ali Velshi will be talking about a little later in the show, you know, he's got tough, tough problems still to solve. He's got to persuade people to do things that they haven't yet been willing to do.

And he has not, I think, yet, Anderson, demonstrated that -- a toughness that, if you oppose me, I'm going to force you to do that.

He hasn't really done that in this trip, and nor has he done it very often with the Congress.

COOPER: I was also interested to hear him say in that clip his full name, Barack Hussein Obama. It's not something that we...

GERGEN: Wasn't that interesting?

COOPER: ... heard much during the -- the campaign. But it's something he's very comfortable saying now, as president, and especially to this crowd. I mean, it's -- it's something he uses in moments.

GERGEN: Yes, exactly. And he's very -- he's very deft about this. This again goes back to his ear.

But my sense, Anderson, is that this trip will also be a big confidence booster for him as a president, that he's now sort of -- people have had the chance to take his measure internationally. And he's been well-received. It's been in all sorts of ways, even though there wasn't much substantive progress.

That's the kind of thing that bolsters a president's inner confidence to go back home now with a bit of a halo from the trip, but also just a different sense of who you are: Yes, I have -- you know, I can play in the big leagues. I can hit big league pitching.

And that's a big, big plus for -- internally, for a president.

COOPER: It's been a fascinating couple days, continues for the next several days, as well, in Europe.

David Gergen, thanks a lot.

Coming up at the top of this hour, a special edition of 360 devoted entirely to the president's trip and some of the more remarkable moments so far in spotlight, also behind closed doors. President Obama, the new world promise, 360, that's at the top of this next hour.

Well, coming up next on this program, if you are gay or lesbian in Iowa, the top court in the state says you have the right to marry -- the historic ruling from the heartland, its impacts, and why overturning it, like they did in California, is not going to be easy. Also, are we seeing glimmers of light at the end of tunnel on the economy? Good news about the economy coming up, and something that hasn't happened in nearly 80 years.

And, lady -- and, later, the ladies, first lady-style. Watch Michelle Obama and Carla Bruni Sarkozy meet in France that the fashion world was certainly watching -- their comments ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: In Iowa tonight, history was made, a major ruling on same-sex marriage.

The State Supreme Court said gay and lesbian can get married, and it's protected by the Constitution.

Here, you see some of the reaction after the unanimous decision. The court said -- quote -- "We are firmly convinced the exclusion of gay and lesbian people from the institution of civil marriage does not substantially further any important governmental objective."

Iowa is now the third state to legalize same-sex marriages.

Ben Smith is senior political reporter for Politico. He joins us now.

Ben, I think a lot of people are going to be surprised to hear this came out of Iowa.

BEN SMITH, SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER, POLITICO.COM: Yes.

This is -- you know, the previous same-sex rulings were on the -- were on the coasts, were basically liberal states, California, New York, Connecticut. This is right in the heartland. This is in a state that kind of casts itself as, you know, really the kind of absolutely ordinary American -- central American place.

COOPER: You know, a lot of people on -- who are against gay marriage when it happened in California were saying, well, it's those -- those liberal activist judges in California. You can't really say that about this court in Iowa, though, can you?

SMITH: No, it's a court made up heavily of Republican appointees. It was a unanimous decision and a really kind of sweeping, total decision.

You know, it ruled that a -- not only was the ban on gay marriage unconstitutional, but -- but there was -- civil unions were unacceptable, and they have got to -- and they have got to fix it. And the legislature has no choice. They just have to institute same- sex marriage within three weeks. That was the ruling.

COOPER: So, with -- so, within three weeks, gay couples in -- in Iowa can start getting married?

SMITH: Yes, that's right. And the -- and the court was -- you know, just very firm about kind of articling that there was no excuse for not -- for not letting same-sex couples marry. It really stressed that -- that these couples were absolutely ordinary, said, you know, they were a bank examiner, a stay-at-home parent, listed all their occupations, said, these -- you know, there's no difference between these couples and straight couples.

COOPER: Is this going to get overturned by -- by voters?

SMITH: It's very hard to do that in Iowa, party because the state legislature, which is Democratic, has already signaled they're not -- they're not going to touch it this cycle.

And the way it works in Iowa means that if the Republicans were to win in the next legislature, they would have to pass it in that legislature, then pass it in the next one. It seems like that the first time this could conceivably come up is 2013.

COOPER: Wow. So at least two or three years away. Politically, do you think this is going to have a big impact? I mean, you know, election season, though, it feels like it just ended. It's not too far away from the next presidential election. And Iowa, you know, is a starting off point.

SMITH: Mike Huckabee and Mitt Romney and Mark Stanford, all the guys who are looking at running for president on the Republican line have statements out very fast. It's probably good news for Mike Huckabee, who -- you know, who won in Iowa last time, is a real religious conservative. Firm opponent of same-sex marriage and agrees that this is a big issue there. Presumably, it would help him.

COOPER: Where do you think the gay marriage issue itself is heading next?

SMITH: Well, I mean, you know, there's just -- there's legislatures in more liberal states like Vermont, for instance, which are current debating. You know, not going through the courts but just passing it into law in a straightforward way, same-sex marriage.

At the same time, lawsuits all over the place on different issues are popping up. I mean, like there's a lawsuit in Massachusetts now saying that married couples there should have access to lots of federal benefits that are barred by the Defense of Marriage Act.

So I think -- and I think this -- this ruling is going to empower gay couples in a lot of more conservative states to think about suing.

COOPER: It's certainly caught a lot of people, probably, by surprise who haven't been following this as closely. Ben Smith from Politico. Appreciate it, Ben. Thanks.

SMITH: You bet.

COOPER: Coming up, Madonna's adoption plans: the controversy and criticism spark a surprising setback, but what's next for her? We'll find out.

First, Erica Hill with a "360 News & Business Bulletin" -- Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson, good news on Wall Street, as stocks gained for a fourth straight week. In fact it's the best four- week run in nearly 80 years.

Despite a dismal March jobs report, the Dow added 40 points today. The NASDAQ is up 19. The S&P showed a slight gain of eight points.

In an effort to pare down the Pentagon's 2010 budget, Defense Secretary Robert Gates expected to announce the cancellation of several high-profile weapons programs on Monday, and those cuts could, of course, mean the loss of thousands of jobs.

More bailout bonuses, and this time they're coming courtesy of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The embattled mortgage giants paying an estimated $210 million in retention awards, including payments of at least $1 million each to four top executives. Since last fall, Fannie and Freddie have received a combined $60 million in bailout funds.

And actress and Twitter devotee Demi Moore receiving a scare today when an unknown woman sent her a message threatening suicide. Twitter followers tracked the message to a home in San Jose. But police found the woman was unharmed but in need of help, Anderson.

Talk about scary.

COOPER: Wow. Yes. That's strange.

Saturday, Erica, marks the 41st anniversary, of course, of Martin Luther King Jr.'s death. This weekend, Soledad O'Brien reconstructs the evidence and the story and brings you a first-hand eyewitness report of that tragic ending.

Don't miss "Eyewitness to Murder: The King Assassination," Saturday and Sunday nights at 8 p.m. Eastern. An important documentary.

Coming up next on 360, countdown to a dangerous launch. Window's open now. At any moment North Korea could test-fire a long-range missile, defying President Obama's stern warning. We're watching the developments. We'll bring you the latest if it happens.

Also another breaking story we're following: the massacre in upstate New York. We're still learning new details about the gunman, about the shooting rampage that left more than a dozen dead. We have a live report from the scene coming up.

And then Madonna's defeat. We know she can't adopt a second child from Malawi, but what did she have to say about it today? Her words, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Want to update you on the breaking news from Binghamton where a gunman killed 13 people before taking his own life. Police say he blocked the back exit of an immigration center with his car, then entered from the front, began shooting people.

Twenty-six people survived the massacre. They hid in a basement boiler room.

Tonight mourning the victims, praying for the injured. This was a scene at an emotional church vigil. We're also getting some new details that are emerging about the shooting spree. Susan Candiotti is in Binghamton live. She joins us with the very latest.

Susan, what are we learning now?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, it is a cold and rainy night here in Binghamton as investigators, of course, try to piece together what could have led to this tragedy.

Tonight we have learned that the police have finished interviewing the parents of Jiverly Voong. He is said to be in his early 40s, and he is someone that lived with his parents and his sister in a nearby Johnson City, New York.

Now, we can tell you that they finished interviewing him, but we're still trying to find out more about this man. We are told that he didn't speak English very well. And that he had the name of Jiverly -- or Jiv-erly Voong, but he also used one other alias. And he also recently lost his job at a local vacuum cleaner company.

Here's what one of the neighbors had to say about him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK MONNELL, WONG'S NEIGHBOR: He was quiet, very quiet, stayed to himself quite a bit. I don't think he spoke real good English, so he kind of shied away from you when you were talking to him. So he was just -- just a quiet man. Never expected anything like that, though.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CANDIOTTI: Well, what led Voong to begin this shooting rampage? It started about mid morning when the police got a call from 911 from a receptionist, and it's this private immigration reception center. And the receptionist reported that she was shot in the stomach. Police immediately got to the scene and, eventually, according to the police, it was shortly thereafter that Voong began shooting everyone attending a citizenship class of some kind at the center. That's where all of his victims were shot, in one classroom.

They surrounded the building, and then the rest of the people were let out of the building. Again, 14 people dead, including the shooter, self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. And beyond that, again, they're trying to find out what was his motive?

Anderson, back to you.

COOPER: Any idea where the weapons came from?

CANDIOTTI: Well, so far, they are telling us that he's had a New York state valid permit for these two handguns. One was a 9 millimeter, and one was a 45 caliber semi-automatic hand gun.

And again, we heard that he entered that reception center, the immigration center with a satchel filled with ammunition, but they didn't find anything significant at the house. No computers, nothing of any consequence. So again, still a mystery, Anderson.

COOPER: Yes. Just terrible. Susan, thank you.

Still to come, President Obama's European tour. We'll have the most dramatic and talked about moments of his trip.

But first Madonna's attempt to adopt a little girl from Malawi. A judge rules against the star today, but was the decision fair? We'll let you decide and hear from Madonna herself in our 360 follow- up.

And Michelle Obama and Carl Bruni-Sarkozy, the first ladies of fashion, meeting face to face and getting an awful lot of attention about it when 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Tonight, new developments in the Madonna adoption case. The music star faces a surprising setback in Malawi today, when a judge rejected her bid, siding with local protestors. The judge ruled she just couldn't bend the country's strict residency rules even for a wealthy celebrity.

But now, new signs that Madonna does not intend to take no for the answer. Joe Johns has the 360 follow.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It may take more than money, fame and fortune to make Madonna a mother of four.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Madonna, are you at peace today with the court ruling?

JOHNS: The Malawian judge ruling Madonna does not meet residency requirements. Malawi law requires prospective adoptive parents to live in the country under observation with the child for at least 18 months. She'd only been here since Sunday, arriving on a private jet, soon peppered with questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you understand people's reservations about it, seriously?

MADONNA, SINGER: No, it's none of their business. JOHNS: Malawi bent the adoption rules once before when Madonna adopted her son David, letting her take him home before the adoption was complete. But now the court says bending the rules of adoption could open the door to endangerment of other children.

A journalist read the judge's opinion Friday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By removing the very safeguards that are supposed to protect our children, the courts by their pronouncement would actually put children at risk by some unscrupulous individuals who would take advantage of the weakness of the law of the land.

JOHNS: The judge ruled against Madonna but was still sympathetic, praising her charity work in the country, which started after she traveled there to do a documentary on AIDS.

And when Madonna tried this time to adopt a 4-year-old girl named Chifundo James, whose name means "Mercy," even the country's welfare minister came out in support.

But some outside groups wondered whether Madonna was using her celebrity to try to speed up the process. Others argued it's better for children like Mercy to stay in their own cultures, even if it means turning down a life of privilege.

JANE MAYO, ACTION AID: We don't doubt Madonna's good intentions. This is not going to make much of a difference to child poverty. And as an aid agency, Action Aid is concerned with the millions of children who are living in poverty.

JOHNS: Madonna's attorney says he will appeal the decision.

Joe Johns, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Let us know what you think at the AC360.com Web site, the live chat happening now.

Coming up next, the most anticipated fashion moment of the year, at least according to one producer on our staff, who shall remain nameless. Michelle Obama and Carla Bruni Sarkozy stepping out in trend-setting styles. The world was watching. So whose look was better? I'm not even going to touch that one. We'll let you decide.

Love on the Brooklyn Bridge also gone wrong. wait until you hear what sent this guy dodging through traffic. It's our "Shot of the Day," coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: It might have been the most highly-anticipated meeting of the Obamas' European tour: a so-called fashion face-off between the world's most glamorous first ladies.

As former super model turned French first lady, Carla Bruni- Sarkozy welcomed Michelle Obama in Strasbourg today. Fans and fashionistas around the globe were buzzing about what they wore, who wore it best and all that.

Erica Hill takes us up close.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HILL (voice-over): Meeting the queen may have been a highlight for Mrs. Obama. But the climax for style watchers came early this morning in France, when America's first lady and her French counterpart finally met.

TINA BROWN, CO-FOUNDER, DAILYBEAST.COM: They certainly were the dueling divas of fashion today. I must say, it was wonderful to see these two very different, very stylish women meeting for the first time and both of them wearing these big pussycat bows, which I thought was rather funny.

HILL: Mrs. Obama's bow, and the rest of her ensemble, created by Thakoon, a young American designer who has quickly become one of the first lady's favorites. Carla Bruni Sarkozy opted for her now traditional Dior in a much more muted gray, choices that say a lot about who these first ladies of fashion are.

JOANNA COLES, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, MARIE CLAIRE: I think Michelle Obama feels very comfortable with who she is, and she will dress exactly how she wants to dress. Carla Bruni is very interesting, because she's really playing a role. I mean, one gets a sense that she was a supermodel and then she was a rock star and now she's first lady. And when {resident Sarkozy moves on or gets voted out, she will also move on to something else.

HILL: With their every move documented and picked apart almost instantly, it's no surprise the clothes that Mrs. Obama and Madam Sarkozy choose become message in themselves.

CINDY LEIVE, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "GLAMOUR": It's very symbolic at this particular moment we're having this global economic meltdown, that the first lady of the United States is wearing J. Crew to No. 10 Downing Street. That's not a coincidence. That says this is not about American excess; this is not about lack of restraint.

HILL: As for France's first lady, while Christian Dior and Chanel may be as French as baguettes, they're not exactly accessible, especially in the middle of a recession.

COLES: She may think twice about wearing such a luxurious, gorgeous line and go to something a little cheaper.

HILL: One problem: J. Crew isn't available in France.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: That could make it a little tougher.

By the way, Anderson, I just had to tell you this. On the Huffington Post today -- you may have seen this -- Oscar de la Renta really just kind of railing against Mrs. Obama, saying, quote, "You don't go to Buckingham Palace in a sweater" and noting that the American fashion industry is struggling and that, while he doesn't object to J. Crew, it's wrong to go in one direction only. Ouch.

COOPER: Wow, tough words.

Well, Erica, the British newspaper, "The Guardian," put the first lady meeting, really, in epic terms, calling it a sartorial battle between two fashion titans.

Erica, thanks for that report.

Richard Quest joins us now.

You've been looking at the papers. They are all over the paper.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This had every potential for being a broigus.

COOPER: A broigus?

QUEST: A real broigus.

COOPER: What's a broigus?

QUEST: Well, I'll tell you. On the front page of "The Times" newspaper. Never mind the political aspects of it. "Europe: No We Can't". There's the first lady, and there's the first lady of -- of France, as well.

But, when we put this into this paper, look at this. Now we've got -- now we've got a little bit of hanky panky and as well as your father (ph). Look at this: from President Sarkozy to Mrs. Obama, a kiss. But no kiss from the president to Mrs. Bruni.

COOPER: No.

QUEST: So the view seems to be -- again, once again, these are all the British papers, by the way. They're absolutely obsessed.

COOPER: By the Obamas.

QUEST: Unfortunately, there's one newspaper that, if I open it, is deeply offensive, the cartoon, which we won't read.

COOPER: Yes.

So what do you think it is about this particular meeting? Just that they're two style icons, I guess?

QUEST: Well, look, first of all, Carla Bruni, the sort of woman, as one newspaper says, no other woman would want to be sitting next to. Just think about it. I mean, yes. It's just -- you wouldn't want to.

COOPER: Right.

QUEST: So you end up with another woman who has to be next to her, and she manages to pull it off.

COOPER: Yes.

QUEST: Whether it's with J. Crew or with a bit of a designer.

COOPER: They also could not be two different -- two more different people.

QUEST: The beauty of Michelle Obama is she is -- I've been trying to define her. I think every single person is trying to define her. But I think it's because she's abnormally normal. It's as simple as that. Whatever she chooses to pop on, she manages to pull it off.

COOPER: So you're not buying the whole Oscar de la Renta criticism of what she was wearing?

QUEST: Well, there's a criticism in the newspaper about what she wore with Sarah Brown. Frumpy, middle-aged and rather dowdy is what they're describing it. But then, we're not quite sure which one they're talking about.

COOPER: Ouch.

QUEST: Quite.

When it comes to pulling it off on the big day, she successfully did it.

COOPER: It's interesting, because prior to this trip, there's been a lot of comparisons to Jacqueline Onassis, Jacqueline Kennedy coming.

QUEST: Yes.

COOPER: It's completely different. Kind of, obviously, first lady.

QUEST: What is she?

COOPER: She's completely different.

QUEST: Different ladies, different times. Different ladies, different times. Remember, Michelle Obama said at the school, there's nothing more chic than being smart. OK?

Now, what I want to know is do you know what kitten heels are?

COOPER: Are those -- are those -- are one of them wearing kitten heels? No, I don't.

QUEST: Look, for goodness sake, it's like giving a lesson here. You don't know which one's wearing the kitten heels in this photo, in this picture?

COOPER: What are kitten heels?

QUEST: Well, not kittens really. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Well, one of them is wearing kitten heels.

COOPER: Is that a British thing? Or is that -- I've never heard of that.

All right, we're going to leave it there. I appreciate your -- your educating me.

I don't understand what he's talking about.

Up next, he tries to pop the question -- have you seen this video of this guy? -- and it turns all to chaos on the Brooklyn Bridge. It was a regular broigus. Why the mad sprint, the hurly-burly, the hustle, the bustle, the middle of the traffic, the fisticuffs, the -- what? The argy-bargy. The wild video, and "The Shot" is coming up next.

And of course, at the top of the hour, President Obama's historic trip through Europe: the hits, the misses, what's next on his agenda. It's a whole new 360 special. Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Erica, I'm being inundated with e-mails from viewers and from friends about what kitten heels are. So I now am fully aware that they are small heels.

HILL: Let's be honest, if you look at the picture, one is wearing flat shoes, one has a slight heel. You couldn't tell which one was in kitten heels?

COOPER: I could tell -- I couldn't tell -- I didn't see the heel of -- of the first lady of France.

HILL: Anderson.

COOPER: Also, Richard Quest had wanted to -- for me to plug his Twitter site, so he Twitter address is Richard Quest. And he wants to get as many Tweets as possible.

HILL: And we plugged it on the blog last night, too. So he...

COOPER: I know. He's got thousand of them, and he's very appreciative. He's trying to be Rick Sanchez. That's secretly what he wants. So, you know. We'll try to bring him closer to that.

Coming up, tonight's "Shot" shows you how far some folks go to get love. A guy surprised his girlfriend by proposing to her on the Brooklyn Bridge, very romantic.

HILL: Very. COOPER: Didn't exactly work out so much. The diamond ring apparently fell out of the box, plunged onto the bridge roadway below, and Don Juan wasn't apparently giving up. He climbed down the bridge...

HILL: Oh, my.

COOPER: ... ran along speeding cars. Drivers screamed at him. A police suicide prevention van arrived, told them don't panic.

HILL: No, no. Don't worry.

COOPER: He explained the situation. Exactly. And with the cops' help, the diamond ring was back. Then he marched back up, got down on one knee and proposed. She said yes. They embraced, they kissed. Very sweet, an engagement to remember.

HILL: Not bad.

COOPER: And they'll be getting married later this month.

HILL: And we have the video because her family was there.

COOPER: I was going to say, to be honest, when I first saw this, I didn't believe it. It just seemed too, like -- that it was, you know. But I believe it now.

HILL: I think I'm buying it. You know, just as -- as a lady who was once given an engagement ring, the look on that poor girl's face when she thought, "It's gone." Not that it's about the ring, but in that moment, you're thinking...

COOPER: Tell us about your moment you got your engagement ring. We have time.

HILL: It was fantastic. My husband proposed to me on the beach. It was lovely.

COOPER: That's very nice. You know, I guess you could lose the ring in the sand, but thankfully that didn't happen.

HILL: But he didn't.

COOPER: All right. Let's take a look at our "Beat 360" winners, our daily challenge to viewers to come up with a better caption than the one that we could come up for a photo that we put on the blog every day.

Tonight's picture: president and first lady Michelle Obama, pictured with the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy and the first lady of France during today's NATO summit arrival. We've shown you the video already.

So the staff winner tonight is Eliza. Her caption: "Well, Barack and I, I guess we both know who wears the pants in the family."

(SOUND EFFECT: "Oooh!")

COOPER: I don't get that one. Yes.

Our viewer winner is Sean from Windsor, Connecticut. His caption: "So let me get this straight. Your mother-in-law moved into the White House, and it was your idea?"

(SOUND EFFECT: DRUM BEAT)

COOPER: Sean, congratulations.

HILL: Not bad.

COOPER: That was a good one, yes.

All right. Coming up at the top of the hour, a special hour focusing on the trip that President Obama is making, his debut on the global stage. What it's accomplished, what it hasn't. His one on one with world leaders and also everyday people who are greeting him like -- like a rock star.

I guess that's the cliche. That's next on 360.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)