Return to Transcripts main page


Investigation Into Michael Jackson's Death Continues

Aired June 29, 2009 - 22:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, the latest on the death of Michael Jackson -- new details and new pictures of his final days, and new questions about the doctor who was at his dying side, and new evidence gathered from the Jackson home, and the first steps in what could be a long legal battle over Jackson's children and his money, a court awarding temporary guardianship to the grandmother, Katherine Jackson, not clear what, if any, role two of the children's biological mother, Debbie Rowe, may want.

Also tonight, for the first time in prime time, a sample of a new song Michael Jackson was working on -- We will play that for you in this live two-hour version of 360.

Now, take a look at these, the photos taken during rehearsals for his London concerts that would have been both a comeback and a last hurrah. They appear to show a healthy, active Michael Jackson.

We will be hearing shortly from his trainer, Lou Ferrigno. Also, his doctor's lawyer, Joe -- also, his doctor's lawyer will be here, and Joe Jackson on the children, and Jackson's friend, Deepak Chopra, on the hidden medical condition he says Michael Jackson suffered from.

First, though, the latest on the investigation, cops back on the scene, and Drew Griffin.


DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Detectives from the Los Angeles police and coroner's office returned to the home today where Michael Jackson was found near death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What made you come back (OFF-MIKE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Information that was obtained by the Los Angeles Police Department.

GRIFFIN: And acting on what Assistant Chief Coroner Ed Winter said was information involving medications, detectives left carrying a few bags of possible evidence, saying they are still weeks away from announcing a possible cause of death.

Meanwhile, the mystery of the 50-year-old singer's sudden death became even more curious with the release of these photos taken of an apparently healthy Michael Jackson during a rehearsal last Tuesday night, just two days before he died.

But, according to the attorney for Dr. Conrad Murray, Jackson was feeling ill Wednesday and asked the doctor to spend the night in his rented mansion. The next morning, it was the doctor who found Jackson with a weak pulse and not breathing.

Attorney Ed Chernoff said what followed was panic, as at cardiologist tried to resuscitate Jackson. There was apparently no landline phone in the bedroom. The doctor had a cell phone, but the attorney says the doctor was unsure of the home's address. He describes Dr. Conrad Murray performing CPR and yelling for help.


EDWARD CHERNOFF, ATTORNEY FOR DR. CONRAD MURRAY: He's a cardiologist. He knows that, if a person -- if a person is not breathing, he knows what to do. And he -- he -- he did what he needed to do to try to resuscitate Michael Jackson.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: How long did he actually perform CPR on Mr. Jackson before he realized he needed to make a phone call?

CHERNOFF: Well, it would have been five minutes, maybe, 10 minutes. But -- but the phone call then was delayed, because, like I say, there was no phone -- phone service. He called security to ask for somebody to come up to help. There was no call -- there was no answer when he called.

He then ran downstairs at some point, yelled for help, got the chef, who was in the kitchen, to get security up there. By the time security got up there, then the call was made immediately. This entire time, with the exception of him running downstairs, he was performing CPR on Michael Jackson.


GRIFFIN: It took 30 minutes, Chernoff says, before security finally made the 911 call.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he's not breathing, sir.


GRIFFIN: Jackson never recovered.

The attorney is denying his client gave Jackson any medications that could have caused death, and says his client is not a suspect and is fully cooperating with police.

The Jackson family has been publicly skeptical of the doctor they didn't know. Dr. Conrad Murray, a trained cardiologist was chosen by Jackson to be his personal physician during the upcoming concert tour.

It appears Jackson only knew the doctor from a chance encounter in Las Vegas in 2006, when the doctor treated one of Jackson's children. They remained friends. And, in May, Dr. Murray suspended his practices in Las Vegas and Houston to accept Jackson's offer to accompany him on tour as his personal physician, the job that was to pay $150,000 a month.

Jackson's father has confirmed the family has hired its own forensic expert to conduct a second autopsy. Patriarch Joe Jackson says, he remains concerned about what happened, but is withholding judgment.

JOE JACKSON, FATHER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: I want to see how this autopsy is coming out, you know, the second autopsy that they're doing right now. And I'm expecting to hear about it, from it real soon.

GRIFFIN: The coroner's office has said official toxicology reports will take weeks. The private autopsy, which doesn't involve as many sophisticated tests, could be done in a matter of days.

Drew Griffin, CNN, Atlanta.


COOPER: You saw Reverend Sharpton standing next to Joe Jackson earlier today. He will be on the program just shortly. We will talk to him.

You also heard a bit from Dr. Murray's attorney, Ed Chernoff, in that piece about the moments leading up to Michael Jackson's death and the role his client played until the paramedics arrived, the difficulty in finding a working phone call. A lot of questions about that, questions from the Jackson family about Dr. Murray himself, some of which may be settled when complete autopsy results are finally known.

In the meantime, we're joined by attorney Ed Chernoff to hear directly from him.

Mr. Chernoff, thanks for being with us.

I want to start with the question I guess everyone wants to know. Did Dr. Murray at any time administer or prescribe Michael Jackson either Demerol or OxyContin?


Dr. Murray never prescribed those medicines. He never prescribed or administered them during the period of time that he was attending to Michael Jackson when he was his personal physician during that period of time. He never saw him use those substances either, Anderson.

So, the -- this rumor that is going around that he -- that he was addicted to these things and he was using these things would be a mystery to -- to Dr. Murray.

COOPER: Because we have had Dr. Deepak Chopra, who told CNN that, several years ago, Michael Jackson did ask him for a prescription for Democrat and for OxyContin. To your -- does -- does Dr. Murray have any knowledge of -- of -- he has no knowledge of any prescription painkillers that -- that Michael Jackson is taking, or just Demerol and OxyContin?

CHERNOFF: Yes. I -- I saw that interview with -- with Dr. Chopra. And -- and I understand it's been years ago that that -- that request was made of him by Michael Jackson.

But keep in mind that Dr. Murray was -- has been Michael Jackson's doctor for only two months. And...

COOPER: How did they meet?

CHERNOFF: Well, they -- they met in 2006 in Las Vegas. Michael Jackson was there. He was visiting Las Vegas. Dr. Murray has a practice there.

Somebody on the security detail recommended a friend who knew Dr. Murray, because Michael Jackson's -- Michael Jackson's children was sick. So, on short notice, late at night, Dr. Murray came out and attended to his child. And that's how they met, and they became friends after that.

COOPER: To your knowledge, did Dr. Murray, at any time, ask Michael Jackson if he was using prescription painkillers?

CHERNOFF: I'm sure that, during the -- during the analysis of -- of what to -- what to do to -- to keep him healthy during his rehearsals, that -- those questions were asked.

And -- and Michael Jackson never revealed any of that, painkiller, Demerol or OxyContin, or anything of that nature. That's important, because Dr. Murray needed to know that. If he was going to prescribe at any time, he needed to know what medications shouldn't be prescribed together. So, I'm sure he asked that question.

COOPER: Would Dr. Murray characterize Michael Jackson as being a healthy person?

CHERNOFF: He's -- he's thin. Michael Jackson's thin.

And -- and -- and he has -- certainly, he has troubles with stress and anxiety. But, all in all, yes, he was healthy. He -- he was able to do the things he needed to do preparing for his -- his tour in Europe. And it was Dr. Murray's opinion that he was capable of doing that tour, of doing the necessary work that it would require, which would have been very rigorous.

COOPER: The 911 call was made. The first thing -- or one of the first things that the operator says is to get the -- the patient on a flat surface on the floor.

CPR was being administered apparently, reportedly, by Dr. Murray on the bed. That seems to be against general practice on CPR.

CHERNOFF: Well, remember, Dr. Murray is a cardiologist. He's a cardiologist by trade and by practice...


COOPER: But he's not board-certified. Is that correct?

CHERNOFF: No, he's not -- no, he's not board-certified.

But that doesn't mean that he can't -- can't be a good doctor and know what to do in those circumstances. And, for 20 years, he's been handling people with -- with heart conditions. So, he knows how to gives CPR and he knows what's necessary to do to -- to keep the blood flowing during the CPR process.

He did that. He kept the blood flowing. The pulse remained in Michael Jackson until emergency personnel got there. So, it was -- it was performed properly, by -- by that definition.

COOPER: Dr. Murray accompanied Michael Jackson to the hospital. Was he there when Michael Jackson's children were informed of their father's death?


Dr. Murray, like I said, he was very close to Michael Jackson. I have reported that. They were very close friends. And he knew the children very well. And, at some point, the children had to be told that their father had died. Dr. Murray spoke with the personnel about that at the hospital. And he and the manager went and spoke to the children.

COOPER: You have also said that they requested to see their father. Did they?

CHERNOFF: They did. They did.

COOPER: Attorney Ed Chernoff, we appreciate your -- your time tonight, counsel for Dr. Conrad. Thank you.

CHERNOFF: Thank you, Anderson.

COOPER: Well, let us know what you think. You can join the live chat happening now at -- a lot of people weighing in.

Up next: grandfather Joe Jackson. Grandmother Katherine has got guardianship, but he's doing all the talking, last night and today, a lot of it about his record company, not exactly what's happening with the family.



JOE JACKSON, FATHER OF MICHAEL JACKSON: But I want to make this statement. This is a real good statement here. Marshall and I have -- we own a record company.


COOPER: That was Joe Jackson last night at the BET Awards. He again talked about the record company today. We will talk to Reverend Sharpton about why he's doing that.

And, later, never-before-seen photos of the Jackson kids, and what a court ruled today about where they're going to be living, at least temporarily, who will be looking out for their interests and their inheritance -- all that. Only on 360, you will hear one of the latest songs Michael Jackson was working on.

We will be right back.





COOPER: That was Jamie Foxx at the BET Awards over the weekend -- not easy moonwalking -- which really turned into a celebration of all things Michael Jackson, of course.

On the red carpet outside the ceremony, a lot of people were talking about, well, what some are calling Joe Jackson's bizarre statements. Then, today, he stepped in front of the microphone and kind of made more confusing statements.

Here he is on Michael's charity work.


JOE JACKSON: I have seen Michael help so many people. And, sometimes, he would go and cry about it because he felt sorry for the people that he was helping.

So -- and, you know, I was very proud of my son. And the legacy of Michael will still go on. I promise you that.


COOPER: You're going to notice the Reverend Al Sharpton standing there with Mr. Jackson. We will talk to Mr. Sharpton in a second, to the reverend.

But, first, Don Lemon on the many twists and turns of the Jackson family.


DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): The red carpet, the last place anyone expected to see Michael Jackson's father just three days after his son's death.

(on camera): How is the family holding up?

JOE JACKSON: My family is doing pretty good.


JOE JACKSON: Yes, they are.

LEMON (voice-over): The 80-year-old patriarch appeared unexpectedly at the BET Awards show, hastily rearranged to pay tribute to the icon. Joe Jackson says the celebration should have come a long time ago.

JOE JACKSON: I wish the world had recognized him when he were living, because, you know -- but, right now, he's bigger than ever now. But I wish he was here to see all this, to hear all this, yes.

LEMON: Then his behavior took a bizarre turn, with Jackson promoting his record company.

(on camera): What about Janet and the rest of the family, the daughters and everything?

JACKSON: They're all doing fine.

But I want to make this statement. This is a real good statement here. Marshall and I, we own a record company called -- tell him.


LEMON (voice-over): Promoting his record company and raising eyebrows. Joe Jackson's comments came shortly before his daughter, Janet, spoke at the BET Awards.

JANET JACKSON, MUSICIAN: I would just like to say that, to you, Michael is an icon. To us, Michael is family. And he will forever live in all of our hearts.

LEMON: A tearful tribute from a sister and, today, a father's press conference to explain his controversial remarks.

JOE JACKSON: I just wish he could have been here alive to see this happening...

LEMON (on camera): Right.

JACKSON: ... and not to wait until he's passed and then the recognition.

LEMON: Joe Jackson's relationship with his famous son has been discussed and dissected for decades. The Jackson children were fueled by their immense talent. But, at the same time, even family members admit that they were pushed by their father's relentless drive to succeed.


LEMON (voice-over): On camera, Michael radiated joy. At home, he says he was abused.

This is what he said to Oprah Winfrey.

OPRAH WINFREY, HOST, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW": Would he -- did he ever beat you?




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that was difficult to take, getting beaten and going on stage and performing?

M. JACKSON: Yes. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And why would he beat you?

M. JACKSON: Because he -- he saw me -- he wanted me to -- I guess -- maybe I don't know if I was a golden child, or whatever.

LEMON: Joe Jackson said he never beat Michael, although, in a 2003 interview with the BBC, he did say he whipped him with a switch and a belt.

Outside the Jackson family home, his father ended our interview by describing how he is grieving.

JOE JACKSON: At least I suffer, I cry on the inside. A lot of people will see tears coming on the outside down the face. Not me. I -- I take it in here. But I'm strong.

LEMON: Don Lemon, CNN, Encino, California.



COOPER: No doubt Joe Jackson has suffered a devastating loss. And, yet, the more he tries to explain himself, as he did today, the more eyebrows he seems to raise.

Longtime family friend the Reverend Al Sharpton appeared with Mr. Jackson today at the press conference. He joins us now.

Reverend Sharpton, we have been getting a lot of -- of angry e- mails from people responding to Joe Jackson's appearances on CNN yesterday, the BET Awards, and also today, people complaining that he seems to be plugging this new business venture of his more than -- than mourning the loss of his son.

When you hear that, what do you think?

AL SHARPTON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: I think that he addressed that today. He said, when he arrived at the awards last night, that he only went because he wanted to thank the fans around the world for really rallying around the family, that he was asked about what he was going to continue doing, and that he was responding to it. And he really said that he want...

COOPER: But -- but that actually wasn't true. He -- he actually wasn't. I mean, Don Lemon asked him -- was asking him about the family. And he very pointedly moved the conversation to introduce this guy he's with who he has this business venture with. We -- we looked back at the tape.

SHARPTON: No, I understand, though, that he -- no, I understand. I don't know what happened in that particular interview. You know how the red carpet line goes. He said he had been doing several interviews, and that that had been the question. So, that's what was on his mind.

But his -- his point was, as he explained it, as I understand it, is that he wants to make it clear that he and the family were going to continue trying to deal with music and trying to continue in the things that the Jacksons have always done.

COOPER: Part of this terrible story that we learned today, Katherine Jackson has been awarded temporary custody of -- of Michael Jackson's three kids. She and Joe Jackson don't live together. He lives in Las Vegas, is my understanding. She lives in California.

Will -- will the kids be in California with her; do we know?

SHARPTON: I have no idea. That -- that -- I hadn't have that discussion.

I think that it is absolutely befitting that they grow up around Mrs. Jackson and Mr. Jackson and the family, that they can give them an understanding of who their father was and the stability. Again, these young children are going to grow up as Michael Jackson's children in a world that people familiar with that, that understands that, that can explain and interpret to them who their father really was, not all of this bizarre media stuff.

And I think that's healthy for the children, healthy for the environment. And God knows the matriarch that Katherine Jackson has been through all the ups and down for decades. No one can question her ability to do that.

COOPER: The lawyer for Dr. Conrad Murray, who was Michael Jackson's personal physician at the time of death, and, as you know, who was there, said that Dr. Murray did not give Michael Democrat or OxyContin.

Do you have concerns -- you talked to the family today -- do they have concerns? And, if so, what are the concerns they have about the -- the -- the moments in the days and moments before Michael Jackson's death? SHARPTON: The family's position, as I heard it today, is, they are going to wait and see as the facts come out. They have not taken a position. They're waiting to see what facts come out.

You have one newspaper in England saying this. You have people saying that. They want the facts to come out. And they will deal with the facts once they come out, is what they communicated when I was there. And I think that's the reasonable thing to do.

Again, Anderson, they are still very much grieving. They have not even completed making funeral plans. They have not buried their son, their brother. They want the facts, but they are also dealing with grief, and they're dealing with how they protect the legacy of the greatest entertainer of our time.

COOPER: Is the family, in your opinion, I mean, are they speaking with one voice? Because now we have heard twice from Joe Jackson. Obviously, Katherine Jackson hasn't spoken. Very understandable why she wouldn't. But, in your opinion, is the family speaking with one voice at this time?

SHARPTON: You know, I think the family has, like most families, a bond that only people in families understand.

And I think that, not only do they have one voice; I think they have an understanding of how they do things, how they get things together. And they will do that. They have been able to do that through the years with their family tours.

I think, because they're so public, anything is exaggerated. But this, if there's a strong family, the world has seen, and has been able to stand by the ups and the downs, it has been this family. And I know this family will come through, and they will come through for Michael and for those three children. I'm absolutely confident of that.

COOPER: Well, been a long day, no doubt, for you, many long days to come.

Reverend Sharpton...

SHARPTON: Thank you.

COOPER: ... appreciate your time. Thank you.


COOPER: Well, a lot more to talk about tonight. Deepak Chopra joins us to talk about Michael's past requests for drugs to him and the new song they were working on together. You will hear that tonight.

We're on live for the next two hours.

More also from Joe Jackson and the court about what becomes of Jackson's kids. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE JACKSON: They're happy, though. But they're -- they're happy with the kids that they're around. They was never around other kids. But they -- they're -- they're happy.



COOPER: Still ahead: new music from Michael Jackson. Plus, the Jackson kids, the legal battles may have just begin.

Erica Hill is going to bring us the latest. But, first, she joins us with a 360 bulletin -- Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And, Anderson, we begin in Iraq, where crowds celebrating in the streets today, as Iraqi forces formally took control of Baghdad on what the government declared national sovereignty day. Midnight tonight is actually the deadline for U.S. combat troops to withdraw from Iraqi towns and cities. The final exit from Iraq will come at the end of 2011.

Iran's election authority today upholding that landslide victory for President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad after a partial recount. They rejected allegations of fraud. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton questions the recount, citing Iran's -- quote -- "huge credibility gap with their own people."

The Supreme Court today ruling in favor of white firefighters who claimed they were denied promotions because of their race. In a split 5-4 vote, justices found, officials in New Haven, Connecticut, improperly threw out results from promotion exams that left too few minorities qualified.

Supreme Court nomination Sonia Sotomayor sided with the city when she heard that case in a lower court. CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin will join us a little bit later in the hour with more on the case.

And the mistress of South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford speaking out. Forty-one-year old Maria Belen Chapur has confirmed both the affair and that widely publicized love letter from the governor, the ones which were hacked from her personal e-mail account. Governor Sanford, meantime, announcing he has no intention of resigning -- Anderson.

COOPER: Well, we're also going to talk to Michael Ware later on, on 360 about the deadline in Iraq.

Coming up, though, next: three kids and a lot of complications. Maybe you have only seen them behind veils, but now the veils are lifting -- a never-before-seen look at the Jackson children, the possible legal battles ahead, and the life that they have to look forward to. Also, you know he was rehearsing for his comeback concert. Chances are, you have never heard the new song he was composing. We will have the work in progress. And the man he was composing it with, Dr. Deepak Chopra, joins us -- next on 360.


COOPER: Tonight, we're learning new details about what his children wanted to do after Michael Jackson's death.

First, these are new photographs of the kids with their famous father. They were posted today on the Web site TMZ. These are candid pictures taken of the family.

And, tonight, the kids are without their famous father, of course. And, today, Ed Chernoff, the attorney for Dr. Conrad Murray, says that Jackson's three kids asked to see their father's body in the emergency room.

Chernoff says he asked a psychologist for advice, and believes they did, in fact, see their father's body. What was -- what about their future? That's the question tonight. Where will they go?

Today, we started to get some answers.

Erica Hill takes us "Up Close."


HILL (voice-over): Michael Jackson's three children will stay with their grandparents -- at least for now -- Katherine Jackson's petition for temporary guardianship filed this morning, and quickly granted.

RANDY KESSLER, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: When there are emergency situations, the best thing the court can do is maintain the status quo. So, by maintaining the status quo, you're going to keep stability for the children. And the secondary benefit is that you give a little test tube period for the judge to be able to look at it later and say, OK, that temporary arrangement, it seems to be working, or it doesn't seem to be working.

HILL: The children, seen here in happier times with their father in photos obtained by, are doing well, according to grandfather Joe Jackson, and enjoy being around so many other children their own age.

JOE JACKSON: They're happy with -- with the kids that they're around. You know, they was never around other kids. But they -- they're -- they're happy.

HILL: In her petition, Mrs. Jackson said the children have a long-established relationship with her and are comfortable in her care. The petition also claims the oldest children, 12-year-old Michael and 11-year-old Paris, have -- quote -- "no relationship with their biological mother." JOE JACKSON: Debbie Rowe has nothing to do with what we doing.

HILL: But what if Debbie Rowe decides she does want custody of her children? Rowe will be invited to next Monday's custody hearing. Family law attorney Randy Kessler represents a number of celebrity clients.

KESSLER: Biological parents are always first in line. In this case, the kids are not already with the biological parent. So, you don't have that issue. If the biological parent does step forward, then there might be a fight. But, so far, you know, good news for the Jackson family. When you abandon children, you know, you obviously are not interested in being a parent.

It's going to be very hard for you to come in now and say, "Well, now I just decided I want to be a parent," especially when there are all these financial incentives.

HILL: Seven-year-old Prince Michael, delivered via surrogate, has no other biological parent listed in Monday's court filing.

(on camera) All three children do reportedly have a very close relationship with their long-time nanny, Grace Rwaramba. Joe Jackson calls her a good friend of the family.

But according to her friend, Mallika Chopra, Rwaramba has no intention of seeking custody. In fact, Chopra writes on her blog, the caregiver, quote, "firmly hopes the Jackson family is granted custody of all three children and says she'll be there for them whenever they need or want her.

(voice-over) Chopra writes on her blog, the caregiver, quote, "firmly hopes" the Jackson family is granted custody of all three children and will be there for them whenever they need or want her.

RANDY KESSLER, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: You know, unless somebody contests it's opened and shut. If you have children that are wanted and loved and cared for and financially secure, this should be about the easiest case that comes before this judge.

HILL: An ironically simple ending to a chapter many expected to be as complicated as the man these children called "Dad."

Erica Hill, CNN, New York.


COOPER: More now on the investigation to Michael Jackson's death. Earlier you heard the lawyer for Dr. Conrad Murray denying that his client gave Jackson any medicine that could have caused his death.

Now, we talk to Dr. Deepak Chopra, a close friend of Michael Jackson's for many, many years.

Deepak, I don't want to talk too much about Michael Jackson's children, because I think they deserve privacy. They're little kids. What -- you know the family. It's clear that anyone who had contact with Michael how much he cared for those children. Do you believe they're in good hands?

DEEPAK CHOPRA, FRIEND OF MICHAEL JACKSON: Yes, I do. They're in excellent hands, particularly with their grandmother.

COOPER: And Michael's former nanny, Grace, who is a close friend of yours. I read in your daughter's blog, she even calls you "Papa." You actually introduced her, I believe, to Michael Jackson. She wants -- she says the kids should be with the family. Do you think she should have a role? It seems that they have a very close relationship with her.

CHOPRA: Well, they are very fond of her, and she's very fond of them. And they're very happy to see her right now. And she's with them, along with Michael's mother, Katherine. And the children are having a relatively good time with Grace, as well as Katherine and their cousins. And so everything seems to be in place at the moment.

Grace has no intentions of doing anything other than what's good for the children and what Katherine wants.

COOPER: You've been friends, I think, with Michael Jackson for more than 20 years. I know you told "People" magazine recently that he had lupus. And when Michael -- when did you know -- that hadn't been disclosed before. Do you know when Michael Jackson was diagnosed with that?

CHOPRA: He had positive antibodies a long time ago, and he also had lucaderma or vitiligo, the disfiguration of the skin, which is also an auto immune disease.

And he was very ashamed for some reason about his body image. He had a lot of self loathing about his body image. And he had a compulsion for cosmetic surgery, which is a form of self-mutilation, which now, apparently, is in hindsight, a part of the whole picture. You know, stress during childhood, some form of physical and verbal abuse.

And now, the data that was published in a journal called "Psychosomatic Medicine," where there seems to be some relationship between childhood trauma and auto immune system. The immune system doesn't know who is friend and who is foe and starts to attack its own body.

So Michael had a lot of problems. When you understand the full context of his insecurities, his poor self-esteem, his self loathing, then many of his behaviors are easy to understand.

But the main thing is, he was a lovable character. He was a compassionate, caring, beautiful person. And he was the most extraordinary musician, dancer, entertainer of all time. He had the ability to put you in an excited state. I loved Michael.

COOPER: I know he recently sent you a demo of a song that he wanted your help with. And I want to play a little bit of that music if we can play that now.




COOPER: You were going to collaborate on lyrics for this song. Have you done that before? Tell us about this.

CHOPRA: Actually, my son got them, and I have done this before with him: putting together words, creating a theme for the song. Michael used to compose the music, and then he would sit with various people, actually, for different songs to put the lyrics together. But he knew what he wanted.

In this case, for example, he wanted a heart-rending, evocative theme, where you look at the environment as your own body, where the earth is your physical body, with rivers and water are your own blood and circulation, the air is your breath. He wanted people to feel that they had a personal body, a universal body, and they were both equally ours. It was going to be, he said, his most important contribution to the environment.

COOPER: You clearly loved Michael Jackson as a friend. How difficult was it to be his friend? I mean, if you're friends with someone who you see they're in pain. You see they are, you know, disfiguring themselves over the course of many years. You see them under such enormous pressure. You see them come to you, as you have said in the past, for OxyContin and Demerol. You get the sense that he has other doctors who he's asked, as well.

It's got to be hard to still -- how do you deal with that? What was it like being friends with Michael Jackson?

CHOPRA: It was very hard. It was very hard. I always told him the truth. But he would look at me, and he would say, "You don't understand. You don't understand the pain I'm in. You don't understand the emotional pain I'm in."

And frequently he would say, "Other people do and you don't, and you're my friend." And then he would make himself unavailable. So it was very difficult.

You know, he made himself unavailable frequently to people who really cared about him, including his own family, which really cared about him. And then he would make himself available to enablers.

But that's very characteristic of this disease. You know, I don't really blame Michael for anything. He was the victim of circumstances. He was the victim of his own body image. He was the victim of the media frenzy around him. And he was the victim of enablers.

COOPER: Deepak Chopra, I appreciate you speaking so honestly over the last several days about him. I know it's got to be tough for you, and I appreciate your writings and those of your kids, as well. Thank you very much.

CHOPRA: Thank you. Thank you.

COOPER: There's a lot more at tonight, including a posting from Deepak's daughter about what it was like growing up with Michael Jackson.

Many of you are sharing your thoughts about Jackson. You can join the live chat right now at We're on through this hour as well as into the next hour until 12 midnight East Coast Time.

Just ahead, we'll look at the looming legal battles. Who should get permanent custody of Michael Jackson's kids?

Also, Tom Mesereau, Michael Jackson's former defense attorney, joins us. He spent months defending the singer. A brilliant attorney. We'll ask him about all that is going on right now.

Also, new pictures tonight of Jackson, taken in May during rehearsals for his comeback concerts. We'll talk to his personal trainer, the actor and bodyguard Lou Ferrigno -- body builder, I should say -- about his take on Jackson's condition. Be right back.


LOU FERRIGNO, BODY BUILDER: He looked lean to me. He looked fit. He never showed any sign of any difficulty, and he was the best I've seen him.



COOPER: Today we got a taste of some of the legal battles that may be ahead for Michael Jackson's family and his children. Tom Mesereau defended Michael Jackson against charges of child molestation successfully. Jackson was acquitted on all counts. Mr. Mesereau joins me now.

As you have seen what has gone on the last several days since Michael Jackson's death, what goes through your mind?

TOM MESEREAU, FORMER JACKSON DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I was shocked when I heard he had passed. I was in the middle of a trial in downtown Los Angeles. I came out at 5:30 that afternoon, and when I heard it, I was hoping it one of the many, you know, rumors that often circulated around Michael. And unfortunately, it was not. I'm devastated by it. We've lost a very kind, gentle, wonderful person.

COOPER: You successfully defended him, as we were talking about right before the break. You spent 12 hours a day with him for many months on end. What was he like? I mean, the trial must have taken an awful lot out of him?

MESEREAU: You know, he was a very creative, gentle spirit. He was kind; he was considerate. He really thought he could change the world with music, with art, with kindness, with generosity. He was not built to go through a criminal trial like that.

He sat there facing these horrific charges: people claiming that he had masterminded a conspiracy to abduct children, to falsely imprison a family, to commit extortion, to abuse children. It was a horrifying nightmare for him. And I don't know if he ever fully recovered from it.

COOPER: Do -- I mean, we saw -- we were looking now. We're seeing pictures of him on some of the many days he came to court. There was the day he came wearing what seemed like pajama pants.

There were obviously a lot of allegations. Deepak Chopra had said in past years, Michael Jackson said he came to him asking for prescriptions for OxyContin and Demerol. To your knowledge, was Michael Jackson taking many prescription pills? Did he have a drug problem?

MESEREAU: Well, I heard rumors about this all the time. But I never saw him take any prescription drug or any other type of drug. And during the five-month-long trial, which was five days a week, he was always coherent articulate, cooperative with me. So I'm not a witness to any of this. I did hear the stories, though, repeatedly.

COOPER: I talked to some people who were involved with him in various capacities over the years, who said that at times when they talked to him, it was like talking to somebody on a satellite delay. That he appeared drugged. That did not happen to you?

MESEREAU: Never with me. He was always very lucid, very conscious, very articulate, very intelligent. And it was a pleasure to work with him and a great honor to defend him.

COOPER: What do you think -- I mean, as you look back on this, it's a question I've asked a lot of people, and I don't know that there is an answer. But what do you think happened to Michael Jackson? I mean, you look at those pictures of that young boy, so enthusiastic on stage. You know, the incredible talent he had. The incredible talent we saw in the '80s and even into the '90s. What happened?

MESEREAU: You know, when you're a sensitive artistic genius like he was, you see and feel other movements in the universe that others don't notice.

And when you're compassionate and giving as he was, and you really believe you have a gift that can change the world and make people happier and better, that clashes with the fact that you're wealthy and a celebrity and every shark on the planet wants to get to you because they see you as vulnerable.

And he ended up, I think, very skeptical about people's motives. He couldn't trust people. But at the same time he wanted to heal the universe. And I'll not sure he ever fully resolved that conflict. It was very sad.

COOPER: I talked to one person who was briefly involved with him for only, I think, a few months, who said that Michael Jackson would go days without talking to adults or having real conversations with people. That he had people around him who might, you know, ask to do something. But he didn't really have conversations or contact with a lot of people.

Was that your impression? It's a cliche to say he was incredibly lonely. What was his inner circle like? Were people looking out for his best interests?

MESEREAU: That was the problem. Michael was very distrusting of a lot of people and for good reason. And he often chose the worst people to be around him. Shallow, manipulative, not having his interests in mind. But he needed people so he often would pick people assuming they would do something to him. It was a very sad problem he had. He wanted to reach out and give. He wanted to be kind. And, yet, he was always let done down.

And it made him isolated; it made him a little bit lonely. And it shouldn't have happened to this wonderful person. But this was his burden. Success can bring tremendous burdens, and it did with Michael Jackson.

COOPER: and the news today that Katherine Jackson has been awarded temporary custody, I assume you had interactions with her. How do you feel about that?

MESEREAU: She attended every day of the trial. She's a wonderful, spiritual, giving, kind person. She was Michael's rock during that trial. I was, you know not only would see her in court every day but during breaks, very often I would be in a room with just Michael and her.

And it was very clear how much he loved her, how much she loved him. He trusted her completely. And seeing her with those children just brings a smile to me. I mean, I think it's wonderful that she's going to be taking care of these beautiful children.

COOPER: Well, he was lucky to have you as his defense attorney through the trial, and I appreciate you -- you being on the program tonight.

MESEREAU: Well, thank you for inviting me.

COOPER: Tom Mesereau, thanks very much.

MESEREAU: Coming up next, Bernie Madoff is being called the most hated man in America today. In our "Crime & Punishment" segment tonight, the maximum sentence he gets and his wife, Ruth Madoff, breaks her silence. Why she is saying she's, quote, "embarrassed ashamed." We'll hear her comments, ahead. Senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin weighs in on that.

And the Michael Jackson tribute we've all been waiting for from those Philippine prisoners. Our "Shot of the Day." We'll be right back.

And we go live into the next hour, as well. Stick around.


COOPER: The Wall Street fraud who masterminded the largest Ponzi scheme in history is going to spend the rest of his life behind bars.

Bernie Madoff sentenced to 150 years in prison today. That's the maximum for his crime. The 71-year-old swindler apologized to the people he stole from. Madoff also said he will live with the shame of what he did until the day he dies.

His crime, of course, destroyed families, wiped out bank accounts around the world. And now he's paying for it.

Senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joins is with more of Madoff's sentencing. The lawyer in the case was asking for 12 years. He gets 150 years instead. Is this -- it's not really surprising the judge was so tough.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's not surprising, because the most surprising thing about what Judge Denny Chin said was, "You can apologize all you want, Mr. Bernie Madoff, but you didn't do two things. You didn't cooperate with the government and say who else was involved with your crime. And you didn't help find the money."

So he can talk about how sorry he was for what he calls his mistake. It's some mistake that's lasted for 30 years.

COOPER: He really hasn't explained why he did this, has he?

TOOBIN: Well, implicit in what he's saying is that he tried to do a little bit to sort of keep his head above water, and it just spiraled out of control. But come on, how can something spiral out of control for 30 years? Why he did it is he made millions of dollars doing it.

COOPER: The government seizes all his property, including I guess, millions of dollars from his wife. I think she gets to keep, like, 2.5 million.

TOOBIN: Two point five million, which is a heck of a lot more than a lot of his victims are getting.

COOPER: She's given up, like 60 million.

TOOBIN: She's given up about that much, yes.

COOPER: Why is she allowed to keep any money?

TOOBIN: Well, the idea would be some of the money comes from his legitimate business. That would be the theory. And the government gets the certainty of recovering all the money now, as opposed to having it litigated for years.

COOPER: And finally, she made some statement, which I find amazing she hasn't made some sort of a statement before this. Maybe there's a legal reason for it. I'll ask you about it.

And here's her statement. She says, "I'm embarrassed and ashamed. Like everyone else, I feel betrayed and confused. The man who committed this horrible fraud is not the man whom I have known for all these years."

Do you buy that?

TOOBIN: He couldn't have done this alone. That's the question that everyone wants to know the answer. And the government is actively investigating Ruth Madoff, his brother who was involved in the business, his two sons.

Now in his statement today, Bernie Madoff exonerated all his family members, said they didn't know anything. You know, we'll see.

COOPER: Let's turn to the Supreme Court case. They overturned ruling that Judge Sotomayor had ruled on. Caucasian firefighters in New Haven saying they were the victims of reverse discrimination. What did it come down to for the Supreme Court?

TOOBIN: This is a big fight going on in the Supreme Court in this case and other issues. The issue is, can the government use race to help African-Americans in employment, in college admissions, in promotions?

The cases go back and forth, 5-4 on all of these. In this case, the conservatives won. They said this was a matter of reverse discrimination. When it came to university admissions, the University of Michigan five years ago, the liberals won. The court is very easily divided. Sotomayor voted the same way as David Souter did but Suitor lost.

COOPER: Verifying with Michael Jackson, his mom saying, in applying for custody of his kids, that Michael Jackson does not have a will. Other reports seem to be contrary. We frankly don't know at this hour whether or not he had a will. If he didn't have a will, what does that mean?

TOOBIN: If he doesn't have a will, that guarantees total chaos in the situation for years. It's going to be close to chaos anyway, eve if he does have a will. But if there is no indication of how he wanted his property disposed of, it's just going to be chaos.

COOPER: All right. Jeff Toobin, appreciate it.

Next on 360, the sudden death of the most popular pitchman in America, Billy Mays. God knows you've seen his ads or heard them. Maybe you have some of the products yourself. He died just hours after hitting his head during a rough jet landing. Was that actually a factor? Tonight, preliminary answers from the autopsy.

Also ahead, mourning Michael Jackson. The moving tribute from the dancing prisoners in the Philippines. Even Jeff Toobin is sticking around for that one.

And we are live all through the next hour, as well. We'll be right back.


COOPER: Just ahead, a tribute to Michael Jackson performed behind bars in a prison yard. But first, Erica Hill joins us with another "360 Bulletin" -- Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson, TV pitchman Billy Mays, famous for his high-energy commercials and infomercials, likely died of a heart attack in his sleep, not from a bump on his head during a rough jet landing. That is according to the medical examiner, who also said more tests are needed to confirm the exact cause of death.

Mays was 50 years old. He did suffer from heart disease.

President Obama today condemning the military coup in Honduras as troops fired tear gas at protesters outside the presidential palace. President Jose Manuel Zelaya was forced to leave the country yesterday wearing just his pajamas. He was ousted after pushing the constitution to stay in office.

AT the White House, President Obama hosted hundreds of leaders from the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community to mark the 40th anniversary of the launch of the gay rights movement. Also an exercise for the president in fence mending. Mr. Obama, of course, taking plenty of heat for not keeping campaign promises to the LGBT community.

And a major upset at the world's most ugliest dog contest. You know, we've covered this every year for you. Pabst, there he is. He's a blue ribbon kind of dog. A 4-year-old boxer mix nailed the title. He beat out Miss Ellie, a 15-year-old purebred Chinese crested. She's blind, too.

Now, keep in mind, it's normally the Chinese crested that wins this thing. I think she -- I think she won, like, some sort of a pure breed competition.

COOPER: Yes. All right. Miss Ellie.

HILL: A face only a mother could love.

COOPER: Apparently so.

Coming up next, Michael Jackson honored as only our favorite prisoners can. Our Shot of the Day next.

Also, in our next hour, live, new photos taken just days before Michael Jackson's death. And new details about his final moments. We'll have the latest. We'll be right back.


COOPER: For tonight's "Shot," the ultimate tribute from the dancing inmates in the Philippines. They are, of course, a huge YouTube sensation with their moves to Michael Jackson's music and his videos. Here's one of our favorites.




HILL: And by one of our favorites, do you mean just one of those dances is the favorite, don't we?

COOPER: That guy right there, yes.

HILL: Is it a guy?

COOPER: I don't know. I don't even know, in the Philippines. It's a prison. I don't know what's going on.

Over the weekend the prisoners got together to honor their hero. Take a look.


(MUSIC: "I'll Be There")


COOPER: The amount of choreography they put into that is -- how did they have the time?

HILL: It's rally impressive. I'm sure they're so busy in prison all day, folding laundry.

COOPER: Well, I mean, it's -- that's got to be...

HILL: Do they make license plates in the Philippines?

COOPER: They put that together in five days.

HILL: It's impressive. I agree.

COOPER: Now, I'm told the person that we saw at the beginning of the clip with the long hair also appeared today. I haven't seen this clip. Let's take a look. No? Maybe.

HILL: Oh, yes.