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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Jackson Death Investigation; Diprivan Up Close; Afghanistan Commander Wants More Troops, Equipment; American Jihadists?; Roeder's Ex-Wife Discusses Their Life; The Dangers of Texting while Driving
Aired July 28, 2009 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Tonight, breaking news. Dramatic new developments in the Michael Jackson case and the battle for his money. We've just now learned that the toxicology and coroner reports will come out, but next week. The coroner's office all along saying they were on track to deliver them this week, but tonight that has changed.
Also, police today raiding the Las Vegas home and office of his personal doctor Conrad Murray, and as they did, CNN was uncovering new details of Jackson's final moments. Today we learned how long paramedics worked on his apparently lifeless body before taking him to the hospital.
We're also learning about a fight now brewing over the Jackson estate. The family versus AEG, the concert promoter, and what AEG is after.
Randi Kaye has got details of the coroner's report, the battle to keep Jackson alive, and the money battle in Los Angeles. But we begin with the raids on Dr. Murray and Ted Rowlands in Las Vegas -- Ted.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, two separate search warrants were served in Las Vegas, one at Murray's home in a gated community, the other one here at Murray's Las Vegas clinic.
The first one or the one at the house only took three hours to serve. They went in. Murray greeted them. He was in the house at that time. They took out one computer hard drive and some cell phones.
Here, a much different story. They were here for a total of eight hours going through medical evidence. They came out with what they called document evidence. They came out with a number of different things that were in briefcases and other smaller items, not the big items that we saw in Houston. More smaller -- more targeted it seems, but it took them a long time to get them.
COOPER: So Ted, where is Dr. Murray right now? Do we know? Is he in Las Vegas?
ROWLANDS: He is in Las Vegas. And according to a neighbor, he has been in Las Vegas for much of the period of the last few weeks. His attorney has said that his life has been virtually miserable.
He hasn't left his home because every time he goes out he is encountered by people. And he is -- he has to deal with the public on a level which he has never felt before and that is why he has stayed at home. But neighbors say he has been in his home and in Las Vegas for much of this period while all this investigation has been circulating.
COOPER: All right, Ted thanks on that.
Now for the new details Randi Kaye has been covering about the growing money battle over Jackson's estate. The coroner's report and new information about what happened when paramedics first arrived at Jackson's home after that 911 call.
Randi -- first the breaking news.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, we do have breaking news to tell you about. As you know, sources all along telling us that the toxicology report and the coroner's report and the autopsy results would be made public by the end of this week. Well, now tonight I can tell you, as you heard as well, that the final results and the report will not be made public until sometime next week.
I spoke with a source with knowledge of the autopsy. And he told me that the finishing touches are still being done, still being put on that report. And we can't expect it until some time next week.
So Anderson, yet another delay.
COOPER: All right, Randi, you've been working your sources who some new information tonight regarding the timeline and the scene when paramedics actually arrived at the house after that 911 call. What did they find?
KAYE: Well, this is some new information. I spoke with Captain Steve Ruda from the L.A. Fire Department. And he told me that Jackson was not breathing and had no pulse when paramedics arrived at the scene of his rented mansion. He said he was in, quote, "dire need of help."
Now, let me set the scene for you at the house and put some things in perspective here and show you a little bit of the time line of how this all occurred. We know that the 911 call came in at 12:22 in the afternoon on June 25th. Apparently it was not mentioned -- Michael Jackson was not mentioned that he was the victim there.
The call, we now know, lasted 32 seconds. it took paramedics four of them in all -- three minutes and 17 seconds to get to his house. Captain Ruda with the fire department told me that Mr. Jackson got what he called "the hallelujah package," which means he really got the works in this case. And at the house, Anderson, paramedics worked on Michael Jackson for 42 minutes.
COOPER: I've never heard that term, "the hallelujah package." Why did they work on him at the house for those 42 minutes? Why not just take him to the hospital right away? Was he not stable he couldn't be moved? KAYE: I wanted to know that same thing, actually, and he called it a scoop-and-run. That's when they pick up and transport right away. That did not happen in this case for a number of reasons, Anderson.
First of all, I'm told that Dr. Conrad Murray, Michael Jackson's personal physician -- who we just heard a little bit more about from Ted there in Vegas -- he took responsibility at the scene, this fire captain told me. He was in charge. He was calling the shots. He decided and determined that it was best to work on him there for those 42 minutes and try and get him breathing at the scene.
Captain Ruda told me that when a patient is pulse-less and not breathing, there are many things of course that paramedics can do to try and get the heart beat again. They gave him oxygen, they gave him medicines that he would not name; nothing seemed to work.
But again, this is treatment that was prescribed at the scene, and that's why he wasn't transported. And in those 42 minutes, that's actually part of the "golden hour," I'm told. That's what paramedics call it. It's all the time they have to jump-start the blood pressure and get the heart going again.
The fire captain I've spoke with told me that if a patient is just too far gone, obviously, no matter how long they work on him, nothing is going to help.
COOPER: And how much time has to pass before a patient is simply too far gone?
KAYE: A patient, I'm told by this fire captain, can go without oxygen for about four to six minutes before severe brain damage sets in followed by death. I asked him if that's what happened in the case of Michael Jackson and the Captain Ruda told me, quote, "based on what paramedics saw at the scene, they tried every technique known in the field. Still, we know, he could not be saved."
In the end they loaded him into the ambulance at his rented mansion in Beverly Hills. It was about a two-mile drive or so from there to the UCLA Emergency Room. It took a little over four minutes and as we know now, that is where he died.
KAYE: All right, Randi.
Another hearing to help settle Michael Jackson's estate is coming up Monday. There's now reports of more infighting today between the family and the executors. What have you learned on what's going on?
KAYE: This seems never-ending. As you've mentioned the court hearing coming up; well, in advance of that court documents filed today, Katherine Jackson, his -- Jackson's mother, demanding a pile of financial documents in advance of this August 3rd hearing.
And those documents would include contracts that her son had with record labels, concert officials, promoters, even a contract they had with his father, apparently. Now, I do know she lost temporary custody of the estate when Jackson named the executors in the will of his and the judge granted control of the estate to these executors.
Katherine Jackson apparently suggesting that she has not received the documents in advance of the hearing that she wants. She says the executors are keeping her in the dark. Her request being viewed by the estate as, quote, "voluminous, burdensome and invasive."
Now, the lawyer for the executives released a statement to us tonight and it reads "The special administrators have and will continue to provide timely information to Mrs. Jackson's counsel regarding potential business opportunities for the estate. Any inference that we have not been forthcoming in providing information to Katharine Jackson's attorneys is not accurate."
That is the quote. Now it does go on to say that Mrs. Jackson's lawyers have refused the requested terms for a confidentiality agreement which is between a third party and the Jackson estate, and that is why they have not received this one document, which is apparently what this is all about.
Why does all this matter? Probably a lot of folks asking. Well, as you know, hundreds of millions of dollars are at stake here, including record royalties and Jackson's share, of course, of the well-known Beatles catalog -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Randi Kaye covering a lot. Randi thanks so much. And Ted Rowlands in Las Vegas as well, thanks.
Let's "Dig Deeper" now on all the legal angles and most notably on the criminal side of things, CNN's own legal team: Jeffrey Toobin and Lisa Bloom join us now.
So Jeff, yesterday you said you didn't think -- it was too early to talk about manslaughter in connection to Dr. Murray. Now they've raided his Las Vegas office and his home. What do you think?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, they are obviously engaged in a very serious criminal investigation of him. He is a target. I don't know if he is a target in the legal sense, but certainly in the sense you or I would use. He is a target of a criminal investigation.
Law enforcement officials do not behave this way unless they think they are going to charge someone. Now, whether they ultimately do and what information -- what evidence they have, we don't know.
The key fact here is that the affidavit in support of the search warrant, the reasons that the investigators gave to the judge to grant the search warrant, that's still under seal. So we don't know that, but obviously, they think they have a case on Murray.
COOPER: Yes Lisa, why wouldn't authorities, though, have done this sooner if they raided his office in Texas last week? If Dr. Murray had something to hide -- and I'm not saying he does. We have no idea. But he certainly would have had a lot of time to hide it if he was so inclined. LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I can give you my educated hunch, Anderson and that is that I would suspect that law enforcement has preliminary toxicology results. And remember, Dr. Murray voluntarily spoke to police twice at the beginning, about a month ago.
So, you put together what he told them. You put together that they probably have preliminary toxicology results because that's the way these things usually work. And now they're going to go back and see if they can connect the dots between the medications listed in those tox results and Dr. Murray.
Do they have, for example, shipping invoices, medical order forms, prescription records, or the actual medications themselves, because, keep in mind Propofol, which is at the center of this investigation, is not a prescription.
It's something that he may simply have had on hand. It may have been in Michael Jackson's rented home and it may have been in one of the locations that have been searched in connection with Dr. Murray.
BLOOM: Either his office or his clinic.
COOPR: Lisa, stick around, and Jeff Bloom (sic) as well. We'll have more shortly.
The chat is underway at AC360.com. I've just logged on. Let us know what you think of all this.
Also 360 MD Sanjay Gupta takes a look at that drug in question, Diprivan. And what does it actually look like when someone is put under with Diprivan, put under properly? You'll see for yourself in action literally second by second.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. RAPHAEL GERSHON, CHIEF OF ANESTHESIOLOGY, GRADY MEMORIAL HOSPITAL: He stopped breathing. So, this is -- watch him get (INAUDIBLE) CO2, and he is not breathing anymore. And my wonderful nurse is going to help him breathe.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Let's take a look over here. All the breathing right now is taking place with this bag and this mask.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The patient under Diprivan.
Later, authorities said they plotted violent jihad, a group of men in rural North Carolina. New information tonight on the arrest, another suspect still at large and our own Peter Bergen on how much of a threat or how little home grown violent Jihad is becoming in the United States.
COOPER: All right, so we've just learned from Randi Kaye that the coroner's report of Michael Jackson's death, which we thought was going to be released at the end of this week, including all that toxicology information, is now going to be made public next week. Not this week, as we've been previously led to believe.
Now, meantime, police searching the Las Vegas home and office of Jackson's Dr. Conrad Murray, investigators including Federal Drug Enforcement agents quote, "looking for a lot of things" unquote.
Back with the panel, "Digging Deep" with Lisa Bloom and Jeffrey Toobin.
So we know from court documents filed last week that when Murray's Houston office was raided, it was possibly for a case of manslaughter. That's what -- his own attorney used the term -- it was an investigation of manslaughter.
Are you any closer to saying that this could be a -- that this is a manslaughter case?
TOOBIN: Well, it is a manslaughter investigation. Whether they will actually bring charges and whether Murray is guilty, I'm not ready to say.
COOPER: It would be a hard thing to prove given Michael Jackson's, you know -- the allegations that have already been made about his drug use for years and years and years.
TOOBIN: And it seems to be a very difficult case. Obviously, the key fact that we don't know is what are the results of the autopsy? Because if there is a single drug in his system and a single obvious cause of death, maybe the case gets a little easier, but if there are other drugs in his system, if he has a history of use of other drugs, which seems clearly to be the case, if other doctors were involved in treating him, if he had independent access to drugs without Dr. Murray, it does seem like a very hard case to prove.
COOPER: And Lisa, that would be a question, whether Dr. Murray knew of any other drug use from Michael Jackson.
The strength of the defense case, if this does turn into a trial, would be causation. Can the prosecution prove that the medication given by Dr. Murray, if any, is what caused Jackson's death? And if there are a lot of other medications in Jackson's system, it makes it more and more difficult for the prosecution to link this to Dr. Murray.
The strength of the prosecution's case is Propofol. If that's what was in Michael Jackson's system, if Dr. Murray can be proven to have given him Propofol in a home which is clearly against all reasonable medical thinking -- it's supposed to be in a hospital, there's supposed to be artificial ventilation and the patient should monitored at all times then he really, I think, is in some legal jeopardy because that's just beyond the pale of anything that any medical professional would recommend.
TOOBIN: Manslaughter calls -- you have to prove recklessness. And it is possible that use of Propofol could be considered reckless. But remember, this is not a crime where anybody says Murray tried to kill Michael Jackson, so...
BLOOM: Of course not.
TOOBIN: So he could say, look, I was doing my best. I was given these sets of instructions. He had this history.
So I think intent is...
COOPER: And I'm just one in a line of doctors who had given him this over the years.
TOOBIN: That's the idea.
BLOOM: Yes, but that's not a defense, Anderson. It's not a defense that Michael Jackson wanted it or even begged for it. It's not a defense that other doctors may have done it over the years.
The question is was it medically reckless to give this medication knowing what this doctor knew or should have known and which apparently...
BLOOM: ... nearly all other doctors on the planet know. What's written on the directions, printed on the forms for Propofol is that it has to be in a hospital and there have to be these safety precautions...
BLOOM: ... which clearly were not there in Jackson's home.
COOPER: All right, Lisa and Jeff, thanks very much. Lisa Bloom and Jeff Toobin.
COOPER: Up next we're actually going to show you how Diprivan works. You'll see it in use in the only safe place to use it, a hospital OR.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: And that's what it looks like.
Later, you'd hardly know he is charged with walking up to a doctor, putting a gun to his head and pulling the trigger. Gripping testimony today against the alleged killer of a Kansas abortion- provider; you'll hear his plea.
And Gary Tuchman's exclusive interview with his ex-wife: talking about the man she married and how he compares to the man sitting in the courtroom today.
COOPER: So we've been talking about Michael Jackson's final moments and the drug Diprivan or Propofol. We've heard a lot about that over the last couple weeks. That's what Michael Jackson had apparently been using on and off for years.
It is the drug Dr. Conrad Murray allegedly administered before Jackson died. The drug that every doctor we've asked says would incredibly dangerous to give outside of a hospital setting.
You're about to see why.
We're going to show you in real-time exactly how Diprivan works and you'll see for yourself all the equipment and expertise needed to make sure a patient to go under safely and come back up.
360 MD Sanjay Gupta takes us "Up Close."
GUPTA: Well Anderson, there has been a lot of discussion regarding Propofol. How exactly to use it, and is it considered safe in any setting except a hospital or a medical setting.
So, I decided pictures are worth a thousand words. I'm going to take you inside my operating room to show you firsthand what really happens. Come on in.
So, we are here inside the operating room with Dr. Gershon. He's the Chief of Anesthesiology here. Propofol is a medication he uses all the time.
So, is this it right over here?
GUPTA: It looks like -- milk of amnesia, they call it.
GERSHON: Milk of amnesia. Vincent, you OK?
You have to monitor his EKG. We have to monitor his (INAUDIBLE) CO2. We have to make sure that he is breathing. You've got to see his saturation. You've got to make sure he is ventilated.
GUPTA: So these are all -- that's all typical stuff...
GERSHON: That's standard of care. Yes.
GUPTA: Ok. So the Propofol...
GERSHON: We are going to start infusing this. You are going to get a little sleepy, Vincent. OK? Give me some good, deep breaths.
GUPTA: Watch this go in. Take a look at his eyes, how quickly this...
GERSHON: Deep breath, Vincent. Doing great, you may feel a little burning. OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deep breath.
GUPTA: Ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one.
GERSHON: There's a reason for his heart rate increasing. You can see his eyes are closed.
GUPTA: His eyes close, and what else are you looking for?
GERSHON: Now, we look up here. He stopped breathing, so this is watching his (INAUDIBLE) CO2 and he is not breathing anymore, and my wonderful nurse (ph) is going to help him breathe.
GUPTA: Well, take a look over here; all of the breathing right now is taking place with this bag and this mask. With that medication he wouldn't be able to breathe on his own without those things.
So there you can see part of the problem. Just with that much Propofol there, he stopped breathing and he's going to need a breathing tube.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Easy.
GUPTA: What's so attractive about this medication?
GERSHON: Well, (INAUDIBLE) that's really been in the advent in the last ten years, or so or even more 15 years, and it's just basically a quick on, quick off. And that may answer why people may think that this is something they could do at home, because if it gets out of hand, it goes away quickly.
But the problem is if it gets out of hand and there's nobody there to resuscitate you then nobody could bring you back.
GUPTA: That was pretty quick. You just gave some of the medication...
GERSHON: Five, ten minutes.
GUPTA: Five, ten minutes. He's gone from being completely awake to completely asleep.
GERSHON: He's not breathing. I'm breathing for him.
GUPTA: The one thing that's worth pointing out is that this is a hospital that uses this medication thousands and thousands of times a year. But they do use this medication in non-hospital settings, like outpatient clinics.
The doctors here will tell you they've never heard of it being used in a home.
Anderson -- back to you.
COOPER: Sanjay thanks.
Fascinating how quickly he stopped breathing after quickly getting that Propofol.
One footnote in case you're wondering, the patient you saw going under during in the piece is doing just fine. He's awake and has had no complications, we're told.
So believe it or not, as far as the federal government is concerned Diprivan is not a controlled substance. It seems like nobody ever imagined someone using it in the way Michael Jackson allegedly did. So should it be more tightly regulated? Go to AC360.com to read one opinion about the dangers of Diprivan addiction.
And let's get the latest from the other stories we're following right now.
Erica Hill has a "360 Bulletin" -- Erica.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, a senior military official tells CNN the top commander in Afghanistan will ask President Obama for more troops and more equipment there. General Stanley McChrystal took over in Afghanistan last month. He is expected to make that request in the coming weeks.
President Obama reaching out to seniors today at a town hall teleconference hosted by the AARP; it's all part of Mr. Obama's aggressive push to get a health care reform bill signed this year. The President says his plan will maintain Medicare benefits and allow people to keep the coverage and doctors they now have. Republican opponents say the math just doesn't add up.
A close relative of the common food dye that makes blue M&Ms so blue might also be a much-needed treatment for spinal cord injuries. Get this -- when rats received an IV dose of the dye it helped to block inflammation that continues to damage an injured spine.
HILL: And as you can see there... COOPER: It turned blue.
HILL: ... it also temporarily turns the rats blue, the apparently -- the only notable side effect. Researchers say it's important to remember tests in humans are still years away.
I think it's also important to remember that if all rats in New York City were that cute, we wouldn't have a problem.
COOPER: Yes, that's not a New York City rat at all.
HILL: It's not.
But I have some, so if you just want to try and make sure there's no inflammation in your spine.
COOPER: Oh yes, sure.
HILL: Apparently I think in Gatorade, too, it's the same kind of blue.
COOPER: If the New York City rats turn blue, I'm all for it. It'll be nice to have blue rats running around.
HILL: I'll just scatter M&Ms on the subway tomorrow.
All right, just ahead the $6 million question. That's what researchers spent on a major study on the dangers of texting while driving. The results may scare you enough to keep both hands on the wheel.
Also ahead, born and raised in the USA and accused of plotting violent Jihad overseas: how big is the threat from home grown terrorists?
Plus, exclusive details about the arrest in North Carolina; the wife of one of the suspects speaking out only on 360.
COOPER: In "Crime and Punishment" tonight a "360 Exclusive." We've been digging deep on yesterday's terrorism related arrest in North Carolina. Seven men -- most of them young, in their 20s -- have been charged with plotting terror attacks abroad.
You're looking at mug shots of four of the suspects. The feds say all seven took part in weapons training and military tactics in North Carolina to prepare for violent jihad overseas. Authorities are searching for an eighth suspect still at large at this hour. Now, one of the men in custody is 39-year-old Daniel Boyd. His two sons were also arrested. Boyd was born and raised here in America and until recently -- or until yesterday led a very low-key life as a drywall contractor. Not a much different picture.
Now a much different picture is emerging. David Mattingly joins with details. David, what do we know about this guy, Daniel Patrick Boyd?
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, what people are telling me tonight was that he was a good neighbor, he was a good father. He was the son of a Marine officer, a marine veteran of Vietnam.
They say that there was nothing about him that was suspicious. He seemed like a good friend, someone that you could count on, someone who wouldn't ever be in trouble.
You're looking at his mug shot right now.
Listen, though, to what is in the indictment and you hear what federal officials are saying, that this is possibly a face of home grown terrorism; this light-haired, strapping man who does have this deep Americana background.
But what his neighbors do not know about him is that at the age of 19, 20 years ago, he had converted to Islam as a teenager and that he went to Pakistan, where he got involved with the resistance, the rebels who were fighting against the Afghanistan government that had been set up by the Soviets. He aided and assisted them in their fight against that government.
Now the government is calling that that he has experience with terrorist training camps, even though at the time he was part of something that the United States was supporting to some degree. But now they're saying that he received terrorist training. And now they're painting a very different picture of Daniel Boyd.
COOPER: So, what exactly is he being accused of? Because, I mean, if his terrorist training, according to the government, was back when he was fighting for what the U.S. government was considering Mujahedeen who they were supporting, is that the only thing he's been accused of?
MATTINGLY: Well, he and these other men are accused of providing support and facilitating help to terrorist activities overseas, with the idea of doing harm to people abroad, not here on U.S. soil.
But in terms of just looking at the indictment, there were some specific things about Boyd that he solicited money to fund the travels of individuals overseas to engage in violent Jihad. That he showed one of the defendants how to use an AK-47, this demonstration happened in Boyd's own living room there in North Carolina.
And that from November 2008 to April of this year Boyd purchased ten weapons -- most of them rifles. And part of the indictment saying that these men that he was involved with were involved in gathering weapons, providing material and financial support to people who were doing these terrorist activities overseas.
COOPER: So you had an exclusive interview with Boyd's wife. What did she have to say?
MATTINGLY: Well, she was very upset. Not only was her husband arrested yesterday, but also two of her sons. And she says they are all innocent.
She says they have had some difficulties because of their Islamic beliefs in the United States after coming back from Pakistan all those years ago. But she says they have done nothing illegal. And one of the things that her husband was accused of in the indictment -- it was spelled out how he went to the Middle East with the purposes allegedly of engaging in some kind of violent Jihad activity.
She said that was not the case at all. In fact, one of the times he went over there was to take one of their sons over there for a graduation gift and then to pray for one of their sons who had recently lost his life in a car accident. Listen to her words here right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SABRINA BOYD, DANIEL BOYD'S WIFE: We all had agreed that -- to go to the Holy Land and pray for our son would be a positive action -- excuse me. It would be a positive action and it would help console us and it would be in a place where felt Islamically we could do the most good for our departed beloved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: And that was Sabrina Boyd, Anderson. She's wearing the traditional Islamic clothing. She wears that any time she leaves the house. This is a very conservative Islamic household.
She said they continue to worship at mosques around in the area, but that her husband was never engaged in any sort of violent activity. And she said he is a good man. She maintains that he and her sons are innocent.
COOPER: I just want to make sure. The things in the indictment aren't all about what happened back when Afghanis, Mujahedeen were fighting with the Soviets. According to the indictment, he and others left the U.S. for Israel in 2007, according to the government, to engage in what the government said was violent Jihad, but ultimately returning to America after failing in their efforts, right?
MATTINGLY: This indictment based on activities just in recent years. That was just apparently his first taste of Jihad when he went at 19 to assist the rebel efforts in Afghanistan.
COOPER: All right David. Appreciate that. Thanks very much.
Just how big is this potential home grown terror threat, or is it? For perspective, let's bring in national security analyst Peter Bergen.
Peter, essentially, we've seen a couple of cases recently of American citizens being radicalized here in America and not just talking about violent Jihad, but actually engaging in it. There were young kids in Minneapolis, Somalis who ended up going back to Somalia, and now this group.
What's going on here?
PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I think there's this sort of mini-wavelet of these home grown radicals, American citizens, something that I was skeptical would ever happen because American Muslims tend to be well-integrated into American society, relative to say European Muslims.
But whether it's a Somali case of the Minneapolis kids or some kids from Seattle going over and one of conducting a suicide attack in Somalia or in this case in North Carolina where a number of them not only went to Israel, but also to Jordan and even Kosovo according to the government allegations to try and engage in some kind of violent Jihad.
We also saw a kid from Long Island just showing up in an al Qaeda training camp in Pakistan just in the last several weeks. That case coming public. And Anderson, I'm sure you recall the attack at Little Rock, Arkansas, where an African-American convert to Islam killed an American soldier in recent weeks.
So, you know, taken together, this suggests something of a little bit of a shift from what we've seen previously.
COOPER: Other than the case of the man accused of shooting two U.S. soldiers at that recruiting center, all of these activities have been focused on violence or potential violence overseas. I guess the government's contention is it's not a big leap in logic to believe once you have that training, you could use it here at home?
BERGEN: Yes, and many of these cases revolve around material support for terrorist organizations. And one way you materially support a terrorist organization is providing yourself as a trainee, as, for instance, this kid from Long Island did in an al Qaeda training camp.
He not only volunteered for a suicide operation. He actually took part in an operation in Afghanistan against the American base.
COOPER: Right. You're talking about Bryant Neil Vinas, I believe, this guy from Long Island.
COOPER: What stuns me about that case is -- he was arrested in Pakistan back in 2008, I think, was released -- just how easy it was apparently for an American to join al Qaeda. In 2008, the guy just shows up and gets into al Qaeda. BERGEN: He just showed up and he was instantly taken in, according to reports, and he went into Afghanistan. It raises an interesting question, Anderson which is if this guy can do that -- essentially waltz into an al Qaeda training camp in Pakistan -- why is it that apparently our intelligence agencies for which we spend tens of billions of dollars a year don't seem to have been able to do the same thing?
COOPER: That's certainly the question that's raised.
Peter, I appreciate your expertise. Thanks Peter.
You can also join the live chat right now. Let us know what you think about this case at AC360.com. A lot to talk about ahead.
Up next, an accused killer in court: Scott Roeder charged with murdering abortion provider, Dr. George Tiller. Tonight, Roeder's ex- wife speaking to us on their marriage, his rage, and the disturbing letter she received from him in jail. Exclusive interview ahead.
And later, Colin Powell speaking out about the arrest of Henry Louis Gates Jr.; was the professor a victim of racial profiling. Hear what Powell has to say about that and his own experiences of being racially profiled.
COOPER: Emotional testimony today at the preliminary hearing of the accused killer of a Kansas abortion provider. Wearing a jacket and tie, the defendant, Scott Roeder, sat and listened as witnesses described the shooting death of Dr. George Tiller, who as you know was gunned down in his Wichita church back in May.
Now, one man says he was with Tiller at a snack table when Roeder allegedly opened fire. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY HOEPNER, WITNESS: I was talking to Dr. Tiller and making kind of small talk when I noticed the door, that door that would be on the left there, open up.
The gentleman that had exited the door had walked over and put a gun right up to George's head and shot it. And I -- I wasn't for sure, because it wasn't a loud -- it was a pop, a loud pop, but I wasn't sure if it was a cap gun or what.
I mean, George fell, and I said in my mind, you know, "Oh, my God." I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It was surreal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Surreal and violent. Roeder pleaded not guilty today to murder.
While he was in the courtroom, his ex-wife was with 360's Gary Tuchman, watching the proceedings and talking about the man she married. And now in the exclusive interview you'll only see here, she describes her life with Roeder. She also shares with us the letter he wrote to her from jail.
With the "360 Follow," here's Gary's report.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lindsey Roeder married Scott Roeder 23 years ago. They're now divorced but had a child together, so their lives have remained intertwined. But the man she married has long scared her.
(on camera) Did you think in years gone by that your ex-husband was capable of murdering a doctor who provided abortions?
LINDSEY ROEDER, EX-WIFE OF SCOTT ROEDER: Yes.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Lindsey Roeder says on the day she got married she never could have imagined the downward spiral her life would take.
(on camera) Were you in love when you got married?
TUCHMAN: Do you still love him?
ROEDER: I love the Scott I married.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): This is the man she divorced, in court today, pleading not guilty to murdering abortion provider Dr. George Tiller. Lindsey did not want to see her ex-husband in person in Wichita. So she watched his preliminary hearing on the Internet with me in the Kansas City area where she lives.
ROEDER: Not a nightmare. It's life. It's true.
TUCHMAN: Over the years Lindsey said she saw her once stable husband become increasingly unglued, fanatical about religion and abortion. She filed for divorce after ten years. They stayed in touch because of their son Nicholas, who is now 22.
Just over a decade ago, when Roeder was stopped with explosives in his car, Lindsey says she warned investigators he was dangerous. So she was horrified but not shocked when her ex-husband was arrested for the murder of Dr. George Tiller.
ROEDER: My heart goes out to the Tiller family.
TUCHMAN: Two weeks after the murder, Lindsey Roeder, received this letter from her ex-husband in jail.
ROEDER: "My guess is that I'll never hear back from you, because that would keep in character with being the grown-up spoiled brat that you are. But my true concern is with our son, Nicholas. I'm afraid he's becoming or already become a spoiled brat such as yourself. If you're an adult, you'll respond. If you're a spoiled brat, you won't."
TUCHMAN: Lindsey, who says she was emotionally abused for years by Scott Roeder, did not respond.
(on camera): There's a good chance that Scott will see this story or hear about this story. What would you say to him?
ROEDER: Scott, you had no right to take another person's life. You're not God. You're not a judge. You're not a jury. You say that you are protecting the unborn, that you did it for the children, that you were justified.
If you did it for the children, why did I have to fight for years to get child support to care for Nicholas? If you did it for the children -- if you did it for the children, why wouldn't you pay for a dentist for Nicholas?
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Hopes and dreams demolished so completely.
COOPER: Interesting that he didn't even provide for his own child. Does she have any plans to attend his trial?
TUCHMAN: Anderson, she really is very frightened. She doesn't want to see him in person, but she may have to. She found out today from prosecutors that she and her son, Nicholas, are both on the prosecution witness list, so it's very possible they will be called to testify. They will be compelled to testify.
But she says she knows that's her duty. She knows it's her son's duty, and they will testify.
TUCHMAN: And I will tell you, Anderson, Kansas moves very quickly. Trial date was set today; less than two months away. Trial begins September 21.
COOPER: All right. We'll be following. Gary thanks.
You just heard some of Scott Roeder's words to his ex-wife. You can read his entire jailhouse letter on -- on AC360.com.
Coming up next, texting a message and risking your life. New numbers reveal the growing danger. And we'll take you on a ride that reveals the risk of texting on the road.
And later, "The Shot;" it is a silly one. So it will make you laugh before going to bed tonight. A bunny that maybe walks kind of like -- I don't know -- a person or -- I don't know what sort of animal. Anyway, we'll let you be the judge.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Well, if you think drinking and driving is dangerous, wait until you hear about texting and driving. We're seeing it more and more. Millions of Americans are sending text messages from behind the wheel.
Among them, the city bus driver in San Antonio, whose distraction ended in, yes, that highway collision right there. He lost his job. Lucky, no one was killed in that.
A new study reveals the scope of the threat. According to the Virginia Tech Transportation Institute, truck drivers who are texting are 23 more times more likely to get involved in a crash.
Despite the odds and the risk, a lot of people continue to text on the road. You see it every day. We want to show you how they are playing with fire. We're "Keeping Them Honest." The demonstration that may just make you think twice about doing it again.
Tom Foreman joins us now -- Tom.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Anderson. You know, point of reference here. You talked about the number of times they're more likely to have an accident. The federal government recently said certain people who are drinking may only be four times as likely to have an accident. So you get a sense of how serious this problem is.
But let's get to this thing by Virginia Tech. This is some of their actual road test video where they were checking people who were texting, this sort of thing. And I talked to them earlier today, and they give us a sense of just how badly texting distracts from driving, more than virtually anything else commonly done out on the road.
So we went out to a parking lot in Maryland to test out their findings. First, let's take a look at this; a relatively low-impact activity, loading a CD. The researchers found that people doing this normally look away from the road for about a second and a half.
So I drove this SUV right here up to about 25 miles an hour and right here I spent about a second half quickly loading a CD. Then I looked up and put on the brakes as quickly as I could, and this is where I wound up stopping. So now we have a point of reference. This is a second and a half up until this point, Anderson, to be able to stop that vehicle for loading a CD.
Not too bad, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. So then what about a more intense activity like dialing a cell phone or something?
FOREMAN: That's where it does get a little more tricky. So we do the same experiment. The Virginia Tech researchers found in actual driving circumstances -- and they've been measuring real drivers in real traffic for years -- dialing a cell phone can make you glance away from the road for about three seconds at a time. You may do it several times in a row, but only about three seconds at a time. So same test. Once again, here we go, 25 miles an hour away. I hit here. I pick up my cell phone. I start dialing. We do it for about three seconds, and then I look up and I step on the brake.
I want you to notice what happened here. When I stopped here, this was the mark where I stopped previously, and look how I kept going. That's just the difference in loading a CD and the cell phone. So you can see I'm covering a fair amount of turf now before I manage to get stopped, Anderson; about twice as far.
COOPER: All right. So what about texting?
FOREMAN: And texting. This is where it really becomes a mess.
And it's because of the number six, Anderson. These researchers have found that the six seconds before an accident is a critical time in which you might be able to avoid it, but texting requires so much thought and action it takes up almost all of that time. That's why this is a problem.
Researchers say people who are texting routinely take their eyes off of the road for nearly five seconds. And that's not to complete it. That's just at a time. So watch what happens.
Once again, here we go, 25 miles an hour. Right here I start texting. I do it for 4.6 seconds, and by the time I hit on the brake, look where I wind up.
FOREMAN: And I effectively drove this entire way blind, Anderson. Look at this. There's the mark from where I was talking on the cell phone, trying to dial the cell phone. Back here is where I got past the one. Here's where we started. And right along here is where I passed the one for loading the CD. So you get a sense of just how terribly far you can go with this, and that's traveling at 25 miles an hour.
COOPER: Yes. I mean, that is the interesting thing. You're only driving 25 miles an hour. Obviously, on the highway, you'd be going much faster.
FOREMAN: Oh, yes. At highway speeds, in five seconds, if you take your eyes off the road -- I want you to look at this, because it's just mind-blowing. If you take your eyes off of the road at highway speeds because you are texting -- look, here I'm waving down at the end down here -- and you keep going, in the five seconds that you're not looking at the road, you could drive the entire length of a football field and both end zones. And, again, you are essentially driving blind the entire time.
Think of how much can happen in that space.
COOPER: Five seconds, that's incredible.
FOREMAN: Yes, it is unbelievable. And that's why these researchers that have been at Virginia Tech are making some very strong recommendations. We have it right in the window of our truck here.
They think that there should be a ban on all texting at all times for all drivers. More than a dozen states have already started to do this. And they believe cell phone use should be banned for all newly- licensed teens.
And I'll tell you this, Anderson. This was a simple test, but it really made a believer out of me. Because I thought before I could get away with flicking my eyes up. They said everyone believes that, but the statistics prove that we all think we're better at it than we really are.
COOPER: I will say I have done it, as well. I've texted while driving. I will not do it anymore, based on your thing.
Tom, appreciate it. Thanks very much. Hope other people out there take a listen, as well.
Coming up next, Colin Powell on race: speaking out on Professor Gates' arrest and his own experience, he says, with racial profiling.
Also, a major loss for Michael Phelps. His world record broken; and the controversy sparked over what his competition was wearing.
COOPER: "Raw Politics" tonight. Thursday evening, the professor and the policeman involved in that racially-charged arrest in Cambridge will meet with President Obama at the White House for a beer and, we bet, some frank talk about the incident, or maybe a polite photo op. We're not sure.
Henry Louis Gates Jr., shown here in handcuffs, said he was the victim of racial profiling. Sergeant James Crowley, who arrested the scholar at his house, adamantly denies that charge. A lot of people, from the president down, have weighed in.
Tonight Colin Powell gave his opinion of what happened. The former Secretary of State sat down with Larry King earlier. Powell's remarks about the Gates arrest and his own experiences with the police were quite candid. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: A teaching point for young people, especially -- not for Dr. Gates -- but for young people, especially, is when the police are looking into something, and if you're involved in it in one way or another, cooperate. Don't make the situation more difficult. And I think in this case, the situation was made more difficult.
On the part of the Cambridge Police Department, once they felt they had to bring Dr. Gates out of the house and to handcuff him, I would have thought at that point some adult supervision would have stepped in and said, "OK, look, it is his house. Come on. Let's -- let's not take this any further. Take the handcuffs off. Good night, Dr. Gates."
LARRY KING, CNN HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Were you ever racially profiled?
POWELL: Yes. Many times.
KING: And didn't you ever bring anger to it?
POWELL: Of course. But you know anger is best controlled. And sure I got mad. I got mad when I, as a national security officer for the President of the United States, I went down to meet somebody at Reagan National Airport. And nobody recognized -- nobody thought I could possibly be the national security adviser to the president. I was just a black guy at Reagan National Airport.
And it was only when I went up to the counter and said, "Is my guest here who's waiting for me," did somebody say, "Oh, you're General Powell." It was inconceivable to him that a black guy could be the national security adviser.
KING: How do you deal with things like that?
POWELL: You just suck it -- what are you going to do? It was a teaching point for him. Yes, I'm the national security adviser. I'm black. And watch; I can do the job.
So, you have this kind of -- there is no African-American in this country who's not been exposed to this kind of situation. Do you get angry? Yes. Do you manifest that anger? You protest. You try to get things fixed. But it's kind of a better course of action to take it easy and don't let your anger make the current situation worse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Colin Powell tonight.
Here are some of tonight's other stories we're following. Erica Hill gives us a "360 Bulletin" -- Erica.
HILL: Anderson, freedom in Iran. The Iranian government says it has released 140 prisoners arrested during a protest over last month's presidential election. Now, hundreds of people were detained. Officials claim only the organizers of the conflict are still behind bars.
On Capitol Hill, the Senate Judiciary Committee has approved Judge Sonia Sotomayor's Supreme Court nomination. South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham was the only Republican to vote for Sotomayor. The full Senate will pick up the nomination next week.
At the world swimming championships in Rome, a stunning loss for 14-time Olympic gold medalist Michael Phelps; his first individual defeat in four years. German, Paul Biedermann beating Phelps in the 200-meter freestyle and taking his world record as well. His advantage was apparently a high-tech swim suit which is set to be banned sometime next year.
And a first look at billionaire Sir Richard Branson's mothership. It's a plane designed to launch every-day earthlings into space. Known as the White Knight II, it debuted at an air show in Wisconsin.
There's no word on when the first flight into space will be. But we hear 300 seats have already sold for some $200,000 a piece. Those on board will get five minutes of weightlessness and a view of earth. Take off to landing expected to take about 2 1/2 hours.
And that aircraft, by the way, is not the actual aircraft that takes you sort of up close to space. It launches the spacecraft. It takes you to a certain point in the atmosphere, lets that craft go. You get to experience the weightlessness, and then you come back down.
COOPER: Would you do that?
HILL: I might. I don't know. There's some intense training prior.
COOPER: Is there?
HILL: I don't know that I could survive it.
COOPER: Yes. I'm not that interested. I don't know why.
COOPER: Yes. I don't know. No. Look, I guess I'd do it.
HILL: Might be fun.
COOPER: Might be.
HILL: OK, I'll go instead.
COOPER: All right.
HILL: I'll tell you all about it.
COOPER: Talk about fun, take a look at this bunny. We're going to show you a rabbit with skills. It's "The Shot of the Day," because it is.
COOPER: All right, Erica. Tonight's "Shot" is the reason why they invented the Internet in the first place. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the amazing bunny who walks like a person.
COOPER: Well, not really. Walks like a bunny walking like a bunny on his hind legs. It is our "Dramatic Animal Video" for the night.
Behold the awe-inspiring wonder.
HILL: Here comes Peter Cottontail.
A bunny on two legs.
COOPER: Yes. It's a bunny on two legs.
HILL: Wow. I thought bunnies could only hop on two legs. This bunny can walk. It is amazing.
COOPER: I know. Yes.
HILL: Just like a dog, huh? Do anything for a treat.
COOPER: That bunny's now been signed up by CAA. There's big competition between various agencies...
HILL: A little battle brewing there?
COOPER: I think so, yes.
COOPER: All right. There you go. That's it. There's the bunny.
HILL: The bunny's going to take over our job. Just you wait. After it goes to space.
COOPER: Right. Soon it's going to anchor.
You can see all the "Shots" at AC360.com. Join us there. That does it for 360. Thanks for watching.
"LARRY KING" starts now.