Return to Transcripts main page
ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Deadly California Wildfires Rage; Jaycee Dugard's Secret Life
Aired August 31, 2009 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Two breaking stories to tell you about: the massive fire outside Los Angeles, the flames now threatening thousands of homes and the mountaintop where most of L.A.'s TV and radio stations broadcast. Look at the images. We're live on the front lines throughout the hour.
But we begin with breaking news in the case of Jaycee Dugard, whom, we ought to point out, has yet to be seen since her 18-year captivity ended. Tonight, we're learning more about how she spent those years, outwardly normal at some points to some people. More chilling than that, the possibility there were others, girls who vanished and have never been found -- police now trying to connect at least two other cases to alleged captor Phillip Garrido.
Dan Simon has all the breaking news -- Dan.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, a couple of significant things to report to you tonight.
The first thing is that authorities announced that cadaver dogs found a bone fragment on the property next to the Garrido house. Authorities say that Garrido at one time lived on that property, lived in the backyard in a shed.
The finding that there is a bone fragment could be significant, because authorities say that they're investigating Garrido as a -- possibly being involved in a string of murders that took place in the 1990s. But, at this point, they don't know if that bone fragment belongs to a human or an animal.
The second thing we want to report to you tonight is that local police say they're investigating Garrido as a possible suspect in the abduction of two young girls who lived in this area.
Both of those abductions took place about 20 years ago. The first girl, 13-year-old Ilene Misheloff, she was abducted while going to an ice-skating lesson. That was in 1989. The second case involving 9-year-old Michaela Garecht, she was thrown in a car outside of a supermarket, that taking place in 1988.
That case in particular is significant, because authorities say that Michaela Garecht bore a striking resemblance to Jaycee Dugard. In addition, the composite sketch of the suspect involved in that abduction bore a striking resemblance to Phillip Garrido.
So, you have those two things. Meanwhile, we want to switch gears now and we want to show what you the conditions looked like for Jaycee Dugard as she lived there at that house. Take a look.
SIMON (voice-over): This was Jaycee Dugard's home for nearly two decades, a maze of filthy, cluttered tents. The photos obtained by CNN showed the extreme outdoor conditions in which Jaycee lived with her two daughters, fathered by Phillip Garrido.
This metal cage could be covered with a blue tarp, next to it, a shed with metal clasps, suggesting it could only be opened from the outside. It's not clear what either was used for. The tents are filled up with beat-up furniture -- along the way, reminders that children are involved, teddy bears and a children's lamp found on top of a dresser.
There are books including, one titled "Self-Esteem: A Family Affair," also a picture containing an empty computer printer box. Printing is how Garrido tried to scrape out a living. And CNN has learned it was Jaycee who did much of the work. J.P. Miller, who owns a hauling business, recalls the first time he met Garrido and hired him to do some work.
(on camera): What doe she tell you about who does what?
J.P. MILLER, CONDUCTED BUSINESS WITH VICTIM: He said that his daughter Alyssa does the -- most of the graphic design and the -- the computer work, and that he handles the printing portion of it.
SIMON (voice-over): As authorities revealed, Alyssa was the name given to Jaycee.
Ben Daughdrill also communicated with Alyssa by e-mail and by phone. He says she came across as intelligent and articulate. On at least two occasions, he says he met with her to pick up orders.
(on camera): And what was she like then?
BEN DAUGHDRILL, CONDUCTED BUSINESS WITH VICTIM: Same way, just professional and -- and, you know, came across as just a genuine, nice person, and didn't -- didn't see anything that was weird or like she was looking over her shoulder or nothing. Just, she seemed -- normal person.
SIMON: Investigators continue to pore over the house, saying they're looking for evidence that Garrido may have been involved in other crimes. Cadaver dogs have been canvassing the property and the home next door where they found a bone fragment. Police say Garrido had access to that property.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, we're taking that bone back for further examination. We don't know if it's human or animal.
SIMON: Authorities, meanwhile, are still trying to sort out the conditions in which Jaycee was held captive. But, as these pictures show, it was a primitive existence.
COOPER: Have we learned anything more about Jaycee? I mean, do we know of her whereabouts now?
SIMON: Well, we can tell that you she started out at a motel in the area. But she has moved to what has now been described as an undisclosed location to keep her whereabouts from becoming known.
Her -- her stepdad says that still in the early stages of getting reacquainted with her mother, but he says they're in good hands. She's surrounded by a team of psychologists.
And -- and one more thing, Anderson, before we let you go. We can tell that you authorities have just announced that they're now through searching Garrido's home, as well as the neighbor's house. They're entirely done with it. So, the investigation, at least here in this neighborhood, is now complete -- back to you.
COOPER: Dan, you know, it's hard to get a sense of this backyard. I mean, how close are other people's homes to the backyard?
SIMON: Well, you know, people can see in that backyard. I mean, you had one neighbor who was just simply able to peer over the fence and see the tents, see people living in the backyard.
It is -- it is remarkable that, over the course of 18 years, you only had one 911 call. But, you know, as we have heard from some neighbors, they had some sort of a friendship with Phillip Garrido. So, perhaps that explains why you didn't have more people alerting authorities in terms of what they may have seen.
COOPER: It still just boggles the mind.
Dan, appreciate the reporting.
New evidence tonight on how profoundly strange Jaycee's alleged captor is. You got a taste of it in his rambling jailhouse interview that we played for you the day he was arrested.
Cheyvonne Molino owns an auto salvage yard, knew Phillip Garrido as a customer and a friend. Over the weekend, she told "The Sacramento Bee" that Garrido was struggling with his sexual desires and detailed the struggle in a four-page manifesto he gave one of her employees. She also knew Jaycee and the two girls, seen here at a sweet 16 party just a couple weeks ago for Molino's daughter.
Cheyvonne Molino joins us now.
Cheyvonne, thanks for being with us.
Her daughters, Angel and Starlet, attended your daughter's 16th birthday party a couple weeks ago. What were they like?
CHEYVONNE MOLINO, GARRIDO'S BUSINESS ASSOCIATE: The girls were fine. They're being portrayed in the media like they were little girls that lived -- little jungle Janes that lived in a dungeon. The one thing the authorities have not allowed us to know is, what were the living conditions of that 4,000-square-foot house?
COOPER: So, you think they spent a lot of time inside the house?
MOLINO: I saw them three or four times a week. They were clean. Their hair was clean. If they were living in those type of conditions, they would have had a little bit of dirt on them. I -- I'm a cosmetology instructor. Their hair was never dirty. They always looked nice.
COOPER: All right. Cheyvonne, stay right there. We want to talk to you after this short break.
You can also join the live chat right now at AC360.com. Let us know what you think about this. Let us know the questions you have about it. There are a lot of questions to have.
Also ahead tonight, live from the fire lines -- thousands of homes in jeopardy, the blaze raging, firefighters scrambling to get ahold of the walls of flame.
And, later, swine flu reappearing, but the vaccine is running late. Who is going to get it first? And is it even safe? 360 M.D. Sanjay Gupta is here answering your questions.
COOPER: More on our breaking story: investigators looking into the disappearance of at least two other girls in connection with convicted sex offender Phillip Garrido. He's in jail. So is his wife, Nancy. The search of their home and backyard compound just wrapping up a few moments ago tonight.
On "LARRY KING LIVE," in the last hour, the woman he went to prison for kidnapping and raping 30 years ago spoke out about her ordeal, which began when Garrido talked his way into her car.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "LARRY KING LIVE")
KATHERINE CALLAWAY HALL, RAPE VICTIM OF PHILLIP GARRIDO: I just turned around the corner and pulled over. And he slammed my head into the steering wheel and pulled out handcuffs. He took my keys out, threw them on the floor, and pulled out handcuffs, and handcuffed me, and -- and said: "I just want a piece of ass. If you be good, you won't get hurt."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: We're back now with Cheyvonne Molino, a friend of Phillip Garrido and his -- quote, unquote -- "family."
Cheyvonne, appreciate you being with us again.
You had interaction also...
MOLINO: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: ... with Jaycee, who you knew as Alyssa. What was she like?
MOLINO: She was just your normal teenager. She was aspiring to do modeling. Her picture was all over his business cards for the last 10 years.
COOPER: Her picture were on his -- on his business cards?
About 10 years ago, when he started printing our cards, and he was looking for business, he would leave your cards with his cards and her picture, blonde hair, blue eyes, beautiful young lady. She was on everyone's card.
COOPER: And what's he like? I mean, you know, we see pictures of him now, and, knowing what we know, you look at him and say, OK, he looks like a crazy child molester. But, I mean, you knew him for 10 years. What was he like?
MOLINO: He -- he had eccentric -- somewhat of an eccentric attitude. But he was a good businessman.
He was a caring man. I mean, it was 102 degrees in this past summer. He came by almost every day just dropping off water. His children were always nice and polite. And I understand that he has admitted to doing these horrible things. And there's no forgiveness in what has been done.
But we still have to look at the recovery process for the girls. And everyone wants them to be like they were just locked up in a dungeon until, just by chance, by luck, he was released. I saw him after he left U.C. Berkeley. Those girls were in T-shirts and shorts. They were fine. They -- they weren't like that.
They -- I don't know how abnormal their life was at home, but they gave the perception that everything was fine. He gave us a...
COOPER: But -- but...
MOLINO: I'm sorry.
COOPER: But, clearly, he was, you know, you say eccentric. I mean, he wrote about schizophrenia. He went to the U.C. Berkeley campus. Police within a few minutes realized there was something up with him. He told one neighbor he had a box that could listen to another dimension.
I mean, did he seem crazy to you? MOLINO: He did have a device. And I don't think it's being it's being explained -- it's being played out in the media. It's not being explained properly.
He did have an amplified listening device that could explain how schizophrenia worked in his mind. The manifesto that he gave out, he only released on Monday. And he said, "I'm putting together a packet."
On Tuesday, he came to U.C. Berkeley campus, filled out an application, so that he could then pass out his paperwork. And then, on Wednesday, he walked in by his own free will to that police station, and he told them what was going on.
And all these years, he's been talking about, "I have a phenomenon that, once I tell the world what has been going on with me, I will get the world's attention."
We all thought he was talking about, you know, the heavens opening up, not that he had a deep dark secret that he was ready to reveal. And the police agencies that are in our small town, they had many opportunities to investigate him. And, because of the sources of complaint, they chose not to do so.
Now they're going to blame every single unsolved mystery on him as a way to: Now we're going to do the hard work.
I have done business with them. I'm a victim of their lackadaisical practices.
COOPER: But let -- let me ask you...
MOLINO: And that's why I'm trying out -- I'm sorry.
MOLINO: ... I'm trying to reach out to America that we need to get the truth from them. They need to share with us what their actual inside living conditions are. And then people might not think he's as much of a monster.
Granted, he did some horrible things.
COOPER: Wait a minute. But wait -- wait -- wait -- wait just one -- one second.
COOPER: I mean, this is a man who allegedly kidnapped an 11- year-old girl, repeatedly raped her for 18 years, and fathered two kids with her. So, I -- I wouldn't go too far down the road of defending this guy.
MOLINO: Yes. No, no, no. No, no, no. Please, please... COOPER: I -- I understand you had a personal connection to him.
MOLINO: No, no, no. I -- no, I'm not defending him. He's wrong. I'm talking about the recovery of the girls.
COOPER: OK. You...
MOLINO: I'm just talking about the girls.
COOPER: OK. You...
MOLINO: I don't want to speak on -- on defending him in no way.
You told "The London Telegraph"...
MOLINO: He deserves whatever the law goes.
COOPER: You told "The London Telegraph" that his wife, Nancy, is the real monster. Explain that.
MOLINO: I said she was equally as responsible in this.
COOPER: What was she like?
MOLINO: She was just -- she didn't talk much. She was, you know, a little standoffish. She didn't say very much.
I just say that they owe equal responsibility to the both of them. They don't ever need to see the light of day, in my opinion. But let's help these girls on a recovery.
COOPER: No doubt about...
MOLINO: That's what I'm speaking about.
COOPER: OK. No doubt about that.
MOLINO: No, the -- the authorities still will not allow us...
COOPER: I mean, they certainly -- they have a long...
MOLINO: ... us to know what the house looked like.
Well, certainly, I mean, the authorities clearly, not only have they admitted mistakes. They have probably -- there seems to be many more mistakes they haven't even copped to at this point. And there is going to be a lot to focus on in the weeks ahead about all the missed opportunities. And there are many of them.
We're going to talk about that in a moment on this program. I appreciate you coming on...
MOLINO: Thank you.
COOPER: ... and talking about what you know and -- and what you saw. It's got to be a surreal situation for you, knowing these people, and now suddenly discovering this whole other side to them that you didn't know about.
We appreciate your time, Cheyvonne. Thank you very much.
MOLINO: Thank you very much, Mr. Cooper, for your time.
COOPER: All right.
You can find much more online at AC360.com, including an up-close look at the full criminal filing against Phillip Garrido and a closer look inside Jaycee Dugard's backyard prison.
Digging deeper next, as we said, into Jaycee Dugard's stolen childhood -- how kidnappers reshape the minds of their victims and erase their old identities.
Also, did the British government let a terrorist go for oil? Hard to forget the hero's welcome he got in Libya -- tonight, new evidence that has a lot of people outraged. We're "Keeping Them Honest."
And the videotape that seems to show Michael Jackson alive -- Have you seen this videotape online? -- getting out of a coroner's van? It's caused a lot of conspiracy talk online. We have the facts behind the footage.
COOPER: Digging deeper in a story that gets harder to fathom and tougher to stomach with each new layer.
By now, you have seen the backyard living conditions, the squalor, the primitive sanitation, the soundproof shed. The Garridos' house, not much better, declared off-limits today, unsafe.
Yet, you have also heard that Jaycee Dugard, answering to the name Alyssa, was the creative force behind Phillip Garrido's business, printing business. To customers, she was his grown daughter. As her stepfather said: We had her 11 years. They had her 18.
Here to explain what can happen over 18 years, or 18 months, or sometimes even 18 weeks, Steve Hassan, mind control expert and former member of the Reverend Sun Myung Moon's Unification Church, also clinical psychologist Juliet Francis, who works with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, and CNN legal analyst Lisa Bloom. Juliet, what do you think is going through Jaycee Dugard's mind and that of her daughters? I mean, they have been with this family now for 18 years, Jaycee has. What -- she clearly -- I mean, it is Stockholm syndrome? Or what -- what do you think is happening?
JULIET FRANCIS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: A big part of what is going on, Anderson, has to do with, there must be some difficulties in terms of her separating from being in, even though it was a restricted and, for us looking in, pretty deplorable and distressing environment, but, for her, that's all she's known for the past 18 years. So, that's normal to her.
And, so, therefore, it's going to be difficult in separating from someone like a Phillip and returning home to more normalcy.
COOPER: So, Steve, how does someone, I mean, who has been kidnapped or who joins a cult or -- or any kind of organization, how does someone -- against their will, how does someone then turn to -- to the point where they, you know, even if they have an opportunity to leave, no longer want to?
STEVE HASSAN, MIND CONTROL EXPERT: Yes.
Well, I have been helping people for 30 -- over 30 years, Anderson. And I can tell that you -- if you can control someone's behavior, their information, their thoughts, and their emotions, and including controlling their sleep, controlling their food, using rewards and punishments, using hypnosis and indoctrination, you can create an alternate identity -- in the case of Jaycee, it's Alyssa -- that is completely dependent and obedient on the -- the controller.
And we call this brainwashing.
COOPER: How long does that process take?
HASSAN: It typically can take weeks and sometimes months. In this case, it's literally years. But the good news is, the human spirit wants to be free, wants to be happy, wants real love.
COOPER: And, Juliet, I guess, with an 11-year-old child, it is all the easier to indoctrinate them, to brainwash them.
FRANCIS: So much easier, because kids are so malleable. And, so, therefore, it's so much easier to tell her anything, to say anything to her.
And, as Steve was saying, it's the reward and punishment that gets put in place that really kind of enforce -- you know, reinforce that kind of bonding that took place.
COOPER: Lisa, what is so -- I mean, there are many outrageous things about this situation, but just on the legal side and on the police side, so many missed opportunities, I mean, not just this opportunity three years ago, when -- when an officer responded to a 911 call from a neighbor who said there were kids living in the backyard of this sex offender, and -- and the officer went and never actually went into the yard.
And it's not just the fact that the parole officer never noticed the girls in the house either. I mean, this guy, when he was just released is when he -- he kidnapped Jaycee, allegedly. You would think authorities, as soon as she...
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right.
COOPER: ... disappeared, would look at like the -- the recently released sex offenders in the area.
BLOOM: Anderson, the heartbreaking thing about this case is that all the tough laws were in place. He was on lifetime parole. He had to wear a GPS anklet. He was subjected to random visits at his home from his parole officer.
The neighbor called and said: There are children in the backyard of my neighbor, a sex offender.
And, yet, the breathless incompetence of this police officer who didn't check the backyard after the neighbor made that call -- the word child and sex offender in the same sentence should have set off alarm bells at that local police department. It just didn't.
COOPER: Juliet, you know, you see the pictures. They lived in squalor in the backyard. By all accounts, Jaycee and her daughter seemed normal.
I mean, we -- we have had people on the program who said, you know, they looked like normal kids. They had them at -- at their birthday parties. Could they actually come across so well-adjusted? Or do you think more people should have noticed something? I mean, do people in general just kind of see what they want to see?
FRANCIS: I think people see what they want to see.
But part of what you're also seeing is what they have been accustomed to, how they have adjusted and accepted the lifestyle, that they were kind of -- it was almost kind of forced compliance, because of the kind of -- how they were enslaved.
And, so, it made it very difficult for them to act any differently. And, so, it would seem like normal to them, but may have seemed not normal to the outsider.
COOPER: So, how do you get deprogrammed? I mean, how does someone get out of the brainwashing?
HASSAN: It's basically an educational process and counseling.
It helps to understand what -- for example, communist Chinese brainwashing techniques. Apparently, Dugard was claiming he could read people's minds. And that Robert Jay Lifton, when he was studying Chinese communist brainwashing in the '50s, described as mystical manipulation as a technique of -- of indoctrination, of thought reform. And, so, to sit down, and I would work first with -- with Jaycee's real family, and then Jaycee, to educate them about what is mind control, what is hypnosis, what is indoctrination and brainwashing.
COOPER: Lisa, does it surprise you that -- that more people didn't notice something was wrong? I mean, I spoke to the campus police officers, the -- both the police officers who noticed something wasn't right, right away with this guy Garrido and noticed something odd about the two little girls with him, who, of course, now we know, turned out to be his daughters with -- with Jaycee.
BLOOM: Mm-hmm. And hats off to that police officer, who, by the way, didn't know he was a sex offender until she did the background check.
That just -- all's it takes is one police officer to think something's a little wrong, do a background check, and crack a case like this. But, as for the neighbors, I mean, there was a neighbor who complained. All the neighbors thought he was creepy.
But this guy was so crafty and careful in building this bizarre compound in his backyard, it doesn't surprise me the neighbors didn't suspect. Who would suspect such a thing, except law enforcement, who knew the details of his background, that he's previously convicted of kidnapping and raping another woman, set up a bizarre makeshift situation in a warehouse when he committed that crime?
Law enforcement had that information, but the neighbors didn't.
COOPER: We have got to leave it there.
Juliet Francis, Steve Hassan, Lisa Bloom, we appreciate it. Thank you.
FRANCIS: Thank you.
COOPER: We have a new way to help you stay on top of stories like this, one for your cell phone. Just text the word alert to AC360 or 22360, and we will send you the latest. As always, standard rates apply.
As always, you can go online right now at AC360.com and join the live chat happening now. I have been logging on myself. So has Erica Hill.
Up next, our other breaking story: the fires destroying Southern California, the crews fighting them, and the frantic effort to save thousands of homes. We're live with the latest.
And you have got questions about the new swine flu vaccine? 360 M.D. Sanjay Gupta has answers -- both when we continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Back to our breaking news out of Southern California: That massive, destructive, deadly wildfire continues to rage out of control. It is also moving closer to Los Angeles, the flames reaching heights of some 80 feet. It's known as the Station fire. It destroyed more than 100,000 acres, is threatening thousands of homes and businesses. There are mandatory evacuations under way.
These two heroes died fighting the inferno. Fire Captain Tedmund "Ted" Hall and Firefighter Specialist Arnaldo "Arnie" Quinones were killed yesterday when their truck plunged down an embankment.
Unlike other wildfires in the region, this one is not being fueled by high winds, and only 5 percent of it is contained.
Meteorologist Reynolds Wolf is close to the front lines. He joins us now from Lake View Terrace.
Where exactly is this fire burning? And where -- what is the path?
REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, right now, Anderson, the worst of the fire is being fought right behind me in the San Gabriel Mountains, where you have got conditions that, throughout the day, the wind has not been that strong, but you have had intense heat.
We're talking temperatures, Anderson, that have been in the 90s, even the low 100's. And with the very low humidity, we have seen the fires just -- just spread in -- in all directions. The -- the -- it seems like the place that is really the most, I would say, threatened right now would be the town of Acton, which is actually north of Los Angeles County, at this time.
As you can see on this video, they have been attacking this fire with people on the ground, obviously, from aloft. You have had all kinds of aircraft, fixed-wing aircraft, helicopters, been coming in. They have been attacking the fires the best they possibly can with water and with flame retardant.
And -- and the thing that is really amazing about this, how the weather is not cooperating, just in terms of the heat, but, rather, the lack of wind. And what is interesting about that, Anderson, is that, when you have the Santa Ana winds that many of us really relate to these fires in Southern California, it does tend to spread the flames very quickly.
But when you have Santa Ana winds, you kind of have a better idea where the fire is going. This situation, the Santa Anas are not playing a part at all. You have got very little wind, so the flames are just going in many directions, building a lot of smoke, lowering the visibility for crews to really get in and attack this thing really well from the skies above, and, of course, on the ground.
WOLF: Back to you, Anderson. COOPER: It's a mandatory evacuation, but some people have chosen to stay behind. What happens when someone stays behind with their property?
WOLF: Anderson, they're at the mercy of the fire. They really are.
And the one thing that -- that I can tell that you Cal Fire and a lot of the firefighters here would love people to understand is that, when you choose to stay behind, what you're doing is not only putting your own lives in danger, but you're putting the lives of firefighters who -- who would have to come back and try to save you in danger as well.
You mentioned at the top of the broadcast we have got two firefighters that are never going to see their families again. They're gone. They'll never be forgotten. We don't want to add more to that by people making decisions to stay in harm's way and pulling others in that direction to try to save them.
COOPER: Yes. Reynolds, appreciate the reporting. Thanks.
Still ahead tonight, new fears of swine flu as millions of students head back to school. Will deadly outbreaks follow? How you can keep your kids safe. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is answering all your questions.
First, Erica Hill has a "360 News and Business Bulletin" -- Erica.
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson, Mexico's Baja Peninsula is bracing for impact tonight as Hurricane Jimena approaches Category 5 status. The winds are near 155 miles an hour and strengthening. The forecasters warned Jimena could hit the resort-studded region by Tuesday evening.
Police in Brunswick, Georgia, are offering a $25,000 award for information in the brutal weekend attack that left eight people dead, one -- one in critical condition.
In a 911 tape released today, 22-year-old Guy Heinze Jr. described the horrific scene at his family's mobile home early Saturday morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUY HEINZE JR., FAMILY MURDERED: My whole family is dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Tell me what's going on, sir. What...
HEINZE: I just got home from -- I was out last night. I got home just now. Everybody's dead. I -- my dad's dead. All the people are dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many people are there?
HEINZE: Six. My whole family is dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Heinz was later arrested for evidence tampering and making false statements to police but has not been made a suspect.
The Walt Disney Company is buying Marvel Entertainment for an estimated $4 billion. If that deal's approved, it would give Disney access to some 5,000 characters, including comic classics like Spider- Man and the Incredible Hulk.
And three Texas fishermen lost at sea now reunited with their families. And what a story they have. The men survived eight days on little more than chips, crackers and a small amount of fresh water.
They were found on Saturday, atop their capsized boat, some 180 miles from a Texas coast. And they were found just one day after the Coast Guard had called off the search. The men said their faith also helped to sustain them, Anderson. They even saw helicopters going by, but they just couldn't see them, apparently, in the water. They tried to make themselves seen.
COOPER: Incredible story. Hard to imagine.
Up next on the program, the bomber and the alleged business deal. This thing just stinks. Claims that the freed Libyan terrorist who blew up Pan Am Flight 103 was released as part of a trade deal. Is it true? We're "Keeping Them Honest" ahead.
Also ahead, swine flu. The vaccine's not going to be ready when they said it was going to be. How do we know it's even safe? Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us with a reality check on a virus that is continuing to spread.
COOPER: Tonight stunning new accusations Scotland release of the Pan Am Flight 103 bomber. The allegation that Britain brokered the killer's freedom as part of a secret trade deal with Libya.
As that shocking charge surfaces, so does new video of the man responsible for killing 270 people, including 179 Americans. These images of Abdel Basset al-Megrahi show him in a hospital bed in Tripoli. You can see he's wearing an oxygen mask. Officials there say he is, quote, "a dying man."
Al-Megrahi is said to have terminal prostate cancer. But was his health a reason for his release? Or was the mass murder, who received a hero's welcome in Libya, let go because of money?
"Keeping Them Honest," here's Tom Foreman.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Maybe it was all about oil. Maybe the man convicted of killing 270 people, mostly Americans, was set free for business. That's the dirty accusation swirling around the release of the Lockerbie bomber, Abdel Basset al-Megrahi.
The latest, the "Times of London" says that late in 2007 British Justice Secretary Jack Straw sent a letter to the Scottish minister who would later approve Megrahi's release. Straw said "wider negotiations with the Libyans are reaching a critical stage." And Megrahi should be eligible to return home. The government will release that letter tomorrow, but Secretary Straw says...
JACK STRAW, BRITISH JUSTICE SECRETARY: Some "Times" headline suggesting that the Lockerbie bomber, al-Megrahi, was released as a result of a deal for oil is wholly untrue. There was no deal over the release of Mr. Megrahi.
FOREMAN: That Scottish official, Kenny McAskill, has said all along Megrahi is dying of cancer and was freed out of compassion.
KENNY MACASKILL, SCOTTISH JUSTICE SECRETARY: It was not based on political, diplomatic or economic considerations.
FOREMAN: So "Keeping Them Honest," why does anyone believe this was a swap, a prisoner for oil? Because the Libyans said so.
Within hours of Megrahi's release, the son of Libyan leader Muammar Gadhafi said the prisoner was always in the mix as Libya discussed and signed lucrative oil and gas leases with British oil giant BP in recent years. Octavia Nasr monitors the Middle East for CNN.
OCTAVIA NASR, CNN: He did say that this is a deal. He said that Megrahi was part of a trade deal that Libya struck with the United Kingdom. This is how this whole story started.
FOREMAN: The younger Gadhafi and other Libyan officials are now denying any collusion. But there is still the timing. Megrahi's release came right before Ramadan and a celebration of Muammar Gadhafi's 40 years in power, right before his upcoming trip to United Nations headquarters. And less than two months after he met with British Prime Minister Gordon Brown.
Nile Gardiner is with the conservative Heritage Foundation. He used to advise Margaret Thatcher.
NILE GARDINER, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION: So certainly the government is looking increasingly embarrassed over the whole affair. We're likely to see two parliamentary commissions of inquiry investigating the matter. This story simply will not go away for the prime minister.
FOREMAN (on camera): And that's the crux of the problem. The White House has called the release deeply regrettable. The FBI has called it a mockery of justice. But the problem for the British government is that just too many people are calling it suspicious -- Anderson.
COOPER: We'll continue to follow it. Tom, thanks.
Next, swine flu striking college campuses. How come all the vaccine won't be ready when they said it would? And is it really safe? Dr. Sanjay Gupta answers your questions ahead.
Then the video that has online conspiracy theorists going nuts. Have you seen this? Purports to show Michael Jackson alive, popping out of a coroner's van. We'll show you this tape and what possible explanation there is for it.
COOPER: Back to school week for millions of students. And there are new fears, of course, about swine flu, also known as the H1N1 virus.
Now we told you about a presidential advisory board warning that possibly half the American population could be infected in the upcoming months. Up to 90,000 people could die, they say. Now there's concern that classrooms and lecture halls across the country are going to be breeding grounds for the virus. Some colleges are already reporting outbreaks.
Oklahoma state university has recorded at least 84 suspected cases. Thankfully so far the cases seem to be mild. At the University of Kansas, similar scene. Hundreds of its students have fallen sick.
And with the school year barely under way, campus life has changed dramatically. Medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen reports.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Swine flu seems to like college campuses. And especially the University of Kansas, where there are nearly 350 suspected cases. Freshman Ariel Spiradigliosi (ph) is one of them. When she first got swine flu...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was like, "Oh, my God. Am I going to die?"
COHEN: Ariel, of course, didn't die. But she was pretty sick. Her temperature climbed to 101 degrees.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everything hurt. You're just laying in bed and you're aching and like you're coughing and your, like, chest is burning.
COHEN: Cold comfort but Ariel wasn't alone. Her roommate Caitlyn (ph) Perry contracted the virus, too. So they were ordered into isolation together in their dorm room.
(on camera) We decided to go in and talk to them to see how they're feeling. But before we go into their room, we decided we'd better make a call to the CDC.
Hi, Dr. Jernigan (ph). How are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm fine.
COHEN (voice-over): The doctor at the CDC tells me two things: one, I don't have to wear a mask, but the sick students do.
Two, I should stay at least six feet away from them at all times. I joined the dorm staff, who were delivering food to the sick young ladies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
COHEN (on camera): What's it like being cooped up in here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Boring.
COHEN: Is it scary for the first time in your life on your own and you get sick?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Because you're like, what about like mom and dad are going to come in and wake you up every three hours to take your medicine or make, like, sure you're taking that Advil so your fever doesn't raise. Like you're on your own. And what happens if you don't wake up? Or like, what happens if you, like, sleep through your alarm clock?
But I mean I know I've been checking on Caitlyn (ph), and she's checking on me. So we're doing all right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're doing better.
COHEN: College campuses, students living with each other 24/7, often in close quarters, are breeding grounds for swine flu. So far, 19 campuses across the country have reported cases.
The university is following the CDC's guidelines that say, if infected students are without a fever for 24 hours, they can leave isolation. So with fingers crossed, Katy and Ariel will take their temperatures.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ninety-eight seven. I don't have a fever.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ninety-eight point two. Yes! No fever!
COHEN: Hours later, Caitlyn (ph) and Ariel are free from their confinement, able to leave their dorm room and finally begin life at college.
Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Lawrence, Kansas.
COOPER: One of the scary things about the H1N1 virus is that the number of doses of the vaccine that was supposed to be ready by mid- October won't be. Production is going much slower than expected. And there are a lot of questions about who's going to get the early doses and are those doses even safe?
For that we turn to 360 M.D., Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
Sanjay, we got a lot of questions on the blog about the H1N1 vaccine. Tony Allen wants to know, "When exactly will the vaccine be fully tested and distributed to clinics? And how much is it going to cost?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we're hearing is probably mid-October before you're starting to see some of the first shipments actually being made available.
What's happening right now is sort of in this process, something known as finish and fill. All the safety testing has not been done yet. But they're still filling the bottles, and they're shipping them to the various centers so that as soon as those safety tests come back, they can start administering those doses. They think 45 million doses available mid-October and about 20 million a week after that.
So, you know, maybe a little bit slower than expected. But that's about the way the seasonal flu vaccine works, as well, Anderson.
COOPER: But it's a lot slower. They had talked about 120-some million vaccines by mid-October. Now you're saying just 45 million. There's a lot of people who are not -- who should be getting it who won't be able to get it right away, especially if school is starting. Why is it taking so long to get this thing tested and developed?
GUPTA: The mechanism by which it produces vaccines is still a pretty ancient mechanism. They literally still use unfertilized eggs to make vaccines. It is a slow process. There's been a lot of research being done to expedite that process. But that's sort of about how long they anticipate it taking now.
But again 45 million mid-October, 20 million a week after that.
COOPER: All right. Here's a question from Melanie. "I'm pregnant, due march 2010. Is the H1N1 vaccine safe for my unborn child?"
GUPTA: Well, the right answer to that question is we're not sure yet. But here's what I can tell you. Again, after doing some homework on this particular issue, is that the same way that they make the H1N1 vaccine is the way that they make the seasonal flu vaccine. And the reason that's relevant is we know the seasonal flu vaccine is safe for pregnant women. And they anticipate the H1N1 vaccine will be safe, as well.
So pregnant women, incidentally, are a big target group here. Based on what they've seen in the southern hemisphere, Anderson, pregnant women seem to be at greater risk, especially in the later stage of pregnancy.
Anderson, on your blog a lot of questions about the flu vaccine back in '76 when the last time it was a concern about a pandemic. There was this uptick in something known as Guillain-Barre Syndrome. It's sort of a neurological disorder that seemed to increase in people who have the flu vaccine at that time.
I have asked specifically about this. Is there a concern that something like that could happen again? What I'm being told is, look, millions of doses of flu vaccines of all sorts have been given since then. They don't anticipate that. The process has been greatly refined.
But, you know, when we looked at your blog, this was an issue for a lot of people.
COOPER: The government, though, indemnified -- is protecting basically the companies that are making this vaccine from any potential lawsuits, right?
GUPTA: Yes. And that's the way it works. Part of the reason that happens is because, if you talk to the flu manufacturers, they'll say, look this is not a -- this is not a money-making business. In fact, the flu vaccine will be given for free to people who want it. And so this is part of the way that government gets these flu manufacturers to go ahead and make the flu vaccine. They offer some indemnity.
But again, you know, the clinical trial's going on right now. They think so far it's looking like it's safe.
COOPER: Question from Vicki Karr. She says, "I'm an elementary schoolteacher. I'm concerned about being sick. Will they offer us the first opportunity for getting the vaccination?" She works with kids.
GUPTA: Vicki is not going to be right at the top of the list. Rather, it's going to be the students that she teaches. And really, 6 months of age to 24 years old. Again, pregnant women, that I mentioned, people with some sort of underlying medical problem.
But here's the thing. Schools may take this on a case-by-case basis. So, for example, Vicki, in your school, if you're starting to see lots of kids who have the infection, getting the H1N1 infection, you may become eligible as a result. If they are getting the vaccine, you may also be able to get the vaccine at that time.
COOPER: A lot of trips to the doctor's office. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, appreciate it. Thanks, Sanjay.
GUPTA: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: Well, how bad is swine flu in your city? You can go to AC360.com right now far a link to the CDC's information on H1N1, including maps of affected areas.
Coming up next, Chris Brown breaking his silence. He talks about the day he beat up Rihanna. You wouldn't believe what he says about her. That's coming up.
And the beauty queen that will not go away. Carrie Prejean now taking legal action. We'll tell you why.
COOPER: Still ahead, the YouTube post heard around the world. The unbelievable video proving Michael Jackson is still alive, and we do mean unbelievable. It's tonight's "Shot." We'll explain what the video is.
First, Erica Hill has a "360 Bulletin" -- Erica.
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson, the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan says success there is achievable if the United States revises its strategy. General Stanley McChrystal that statement while delivering a long-awaited report to the Pentagon. This as two U.S. troops were killed today in Afghanistan. That raises the August death toll now to 48, making it the deadliest month of the 8-year war.
The White House says former vice president, Dick Cheney, has his facts wrong. In a weekend interview, Mr. Cheney called the Justice Department's decision to investigate CIA interrogation techniques, quote, "politically motivated."
Administration officials fired back today, insisting the attorney general made the decision independently based on, quote, "the facts and the law."
R&B singer Chris Brown breaking his silence. In his first TV interview since his arrest and conviction of the assault of former girlfriend Rihanna, Brown tells Larry king he doesn't remember leaving her bloodied and bruised.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, CNN ANCHOR: When you hear about all the things that the police and the reports say you did, how do you react to that?
CHRIS BROWN, SINGER: I don't -- I just look at it like, wow, like I'm in shock. Because first of all, that's not who I am as a person. That's not who I pride myself on being. So I just -- I look at the police reports and I hear about the police reports, I don't know. I don't know what to think. I just don't know what to think. This is like wow.
KING: Do you remember doing it?
KING: Don't remember doing it?
BROWN: I don't -- it's like -- it's crazy to me. I'm like, wow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: Chris Brown joins Larry king for an exclusive hour-long interview this Wednesday at 9 p.m. And former beauty queen Carrie Prejean is now suing the Miss California USA pageant. The 22-year-old was stripped of her title in June, following a string of controversies over topless photos, missed appearances, and statements against same-sex marriage. Well, according to her attorney, Prejean will prove she was dethroned solely for her support of traditional marriage. He also says she suffered from religions discrimination, on same sex marriage. They haven't filed that suit yet, but they are planning to, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Next on the program, a new video some say shows Michael Jackson alive. Take a look. Shows somebody that looks like the singer walking out of a coroner's van. Tonight we know the truth about the footage ahead.
COOPER: In tonight's "Shot," two new videos involving Michael Jackson, but only one of them is real.
First, the dance off from a prison in the Philippines to this, a huge thriller get-together in Mexico. Told more than 12,000 people lined up to perform the moves to the music video. Apparently, it's a record.
COOPER: Yes. Took place over the weekend on Saturday, which would have been Jackson's 51st birthday.
HILL: Apparently, they can actually take some lessons from the prisoners. I mean, the costumes and all are fantastic, and I applaud the effort. But frankly, they're not nearly as coordinated.
COOPER: A lot of those red jackets, though. A lot of people must have had that in their closets and then pulled it out.
HILL: They knew it would come back in style one day.
COOPER: Apparently so. I like the little kid there in the front row.
All right. The other video, not legitimate at all. You may have seen this creepy clip pop up on YouTube. It's alleged to show a coroner van entering a garage and then what appears to be Jackson himself ushered out of the vehicle and through a door.
So conspiracy theorists jumped on the chance, thinking it was Jackson alive. Today we learned it was all a hoax.
COOPER: Yes. Staged for the camera by a German television station. He thought it would be an experiment to show how rumors are spread.
HILL: Yes. And you're saying then that it was not Elvis. It's still Michael Jackson.
COOPER: It was not Elvis, no. So I'm sure there are folks out there not convinced. But apparently, it is a hoax.
HILL: All we can do is give them the truth, Anderson.
COOPER: That's all we can do. You're so right, Erica Hill.
You can see all the most recent "Shots" on our Web site, AC360.com.
Coming up at the top of the hour, it is tough to even think about. Breaking news. Investigators now asking if Jaycee Dugard's alleged captor may also be responsible for the disappearance of at least two other girls. The breaking news, ahead.
COOPER: Two breaking stories to tell you about tonight. The massive fire outside Los Angeles. The flames now threatening thousands of homes and the mountain top where most of L.A.'s TV and radio stations broadcast. Look at those images. We're live on the front lines throughout the hour.
But we begin with breaking news in the case of Jaycee Dugard, who we ought to point out has yet to be seen since her 18-year captivity ended. Tonight we're learning more about how she spent those years, outwardly normal at some points to some people.
More chilling than that, the possibility there were others. Girls who vanished and have never been found. Police now trying to connect at least two other cases to alleged captor Phillip Garrido.
Dam Simon has all the breaking news -- Dan.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, a couple significant things to report you to tonight.
The first thing is that authorities announced that cadaver dogs found a bone fragment on the property next to the Garrido house. Authorities say that Garrido at one time lived on that property, lived in the back yard in a shed. The finding that there is a bone fragment could be significant because authorities say that they're investigating Garrido as possibly being involved in a string of murders that took place in the 1990s.