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Balloon Boy Hoax; Women in the Workplace; H1N1 Fears and Facts

Aired October 19, 2009 - 23:00   ET



ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Tonight, the hoax. That's what it smelled like on Thursday and Friday. That's what authorities are calling it tonight. The balloon family's 15 minutes of fame are over. The parents' day in court could be coming.

Child Welfare authorities are involved. New allegations, new evidence, the dad, mom and possibly others fabricated the Colorado balloon scare out of a cloth and helium. New questions now about what happens to the kids in "Crime and Punishment" tonight.

Also, flu fears: With the virus spreading, the vaccine scarce and all sorts of bogus treatments and bad advice going around. We have the facts, facts you need to keep your kids healthy and your family safe. Plus, answers to your questions.

And later, look around you: women are about to outnumber men in the workplace. "Digging Deeper" tonight into their growing power in the economy but also the challenges that remain, Suze Orman joins us tonight.

First up, "Crime & Punishment," the alleged balloon hoax and the very real chance that Richard and Mayumi Heene could go to jail for it. They're now facing possible felony charges though the local sheriff says they may not be coming until next week. That's how long it may take authorities to sift through evidence found at the Heene home in Ft. Collins, Colorado and make sense of all the stories that seem to be emerging.

As the sheriff said today on the bizarre meter this globally- televised helium-powered morning show barfing saga rates a 10. But even as the going gets weird, it's also getting serious. Some are concerned about the safety of Mrs. Heene and the welfare of the three young boys. A lot has been happening.

First up, the latest developments: Dan Simon in Ft. Collins, Dan, the Heene's could be facing some pretty serious charges.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They're looking at about three felonies here, Anderson, and I'll just read them off real quick. We're looking at conspiracy contributing to the delinquency of a minor and attempting to influence a public servant. That last charge could carry a prison term of up to six years and a $500,000 fine.

We can tell you that the Heene family is at home tonight doing something that they don't normally do. They're keeping a low profile waiting for the charges to be filed. And we're told that they could be filed perhaps by the end of the week or sometime early next week -- Anderson.

COOPER: And what about -- there's all the stories about prior incidents involving the Heenes. What do we know?

SIMON: We've done some research on this and we found a couple things. We discovered that 1997, Mr. Heene had a minor conviction. This was a vandalism conviction back in Los Angeles. He served a couple days in jail; not a huge deal.

But there was a more serious incident back in February of this year. There was a 911 call that came from the home. It was a quick hang-up. But the police came out to the home anyway. And they heard some yelling as they approached the house.

So when they got to the home, they saw Mrs. Heene and she appeared to have had a mark on her cheek and a broken blood vessel in her eye. And the thinking was perhaps there was domestic violence going on in the house.

But Mrs. Heene said there was just a problem with her contact lens. And Richard Heene said, no, no problem at all. And that the yelling was to put the children to sleep.

But we can tell you that authorities are concerned that Mr. Heene might have a bit of a temper. They advised his wife to actually seek -- go to a safe shelter over the weekend. She declined to do that.

We can also tell that you Child Protective Services also involved now, looking at the family, looking to see if the children might be in a dangerous situation.

COOPER: So when you say Child Protective Services have been looking at it, have they what -- have they interviewed the family? Do we know?

SIMON: Well, we know that they're going to start an investigation. We don't think it's begun yet. But they just want to take a look, actually come to the home and maybe do some interviews and see what the living situation is like.

COOPER: (AUDIO GAP) have been pitching reality show TV companies in the past about getting on again? I mean, I guess, they're on "Wife Swap" twice already. I guess -- you have it on the blogs.

SIMON: Well, according to the sheriff, clearly the motive behind this alleged hoax was to better market themselves for a reality TV show. I mean, you look at the father; he seems to have a forceful personality. They clearly have an interesting family. But the pitches weren't getting through to the production company.

So according to the sheriff, that's when they cooked up this whole scheme. I don't know a whole lot about their financial situation quite frankly. We know that Mr. Heene, according to neighbors, was some sort of a contractor or carpenter. We did some digging. He does not have a contractor's license, and the wife doesn't seem to hold a job.

COOPER: So we don't really know how they make money.

SIMON: Well, they've clearly made some money from doing those "Wife Swap" appearances. And he does do some carpenter work according to the neighbors.


SIMON: So perhaps that's where the income is coming from.

COOPER: All right, Dan, thanks for that.

As we mentioned, investigators have already singled out the Heenes' appearance on CNN as evidence that this whole story was a fake. And that's not the only on air moment that led a lot of people to believe they were acting.

So let's look at the signs. Beginning with the "got you" moment on Thursday night when Wolf Blitzer, filling in for Larry King, asked 6-year-old Falcon Heene why he didn't come out from hiding when his parents were calling for him.

Watch the response. This is how it all began.


FALCON HEENE: Um, he said that we did this for a show.


COOPER: Now, that reaction certainly caught a lot of your attention, a lot of people in the newsroom's attention, and so did dad's reaction when Wolf Blitzer brought it back up later on.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: What did he mean, "We did this for the show"?

RICHARD HEENE, BALLOON BOY'S FATHER: Let me interrupt this real quick, because I think I can see the direction you guys are hedging on this because earlier you had asked the police officers the questions. The media out front, we weren't even going to do this interview. And I'm kind of appalled after all of the feelings that I went through up and down that you guys are trying to suggest something else.


COOPER: Does the lady protest too much? We call that exhibit A and B.

Next on the "Today" show, Friday exhibit C. Richard Heene is asked whether this was all a stunt. And while that's happening, Falcon throws up.


R. HEENE: So that's what he was referring to. That's what he was referring to when -- when he made that statement.

MEREDITH VIERA, NBC HOST: And I know I want to point out that the sheriff's office said last night that they believed your account of what happened. But they do want to question you a little bit more.


COOPER: That's great TV. Is that from a stomach virus or maybe the stress of covering up the truth? And I loved that how Meredith Vieira just keeps on trucking ahead.

So that is exhibit C.

Next, the 911 phone call released on Friday that has Mayumi Heene's - Heene's frantic voice saying her son and their homemade balloon are missing. Listen.


911 DISPACTCHER: They've both been missing for about 20 minutes?



M. HEENE: Oh my God, oh my God, my son.


COOPER: So to the sheriff, that was all theatrics from a woman who met her husband in a Hollywood acting school. And remember, that call was only made after the call was made to the FAA by the Heenes and a local TV station.

So next: the family video of the balloon floating away from the family's backyard. Let's take a look.


F. HEENE: Wow.

R. HEENE: Oh, my God. OK, are you in? Get it -- (EXPLETIVE DELETED)


COOPER: Yes, it was the kicking that ruined it for me, frankly.

Now perhaps the most damaging bits of evidence. Part of that video given to "Inside Edition" from the family -- we don't know if they sold it -- but they didn't release it to everyone, just the tabloid TV shows.

It shows the moments the balloon took-off. It also shows Falcon and looking into the camera and saying he's going to sneak into the balloon. Although, I don't know if you're a child and you're afraid of your dad's anger why you would then say to the camera you're going to sneak into the balloon. Anyway, take a look.


F. HEENE: I'm going to sneak inside.


COOPER: And that's it. Even less plausible to many, here's dad's response. Take a look.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dad, Falcon's in there.

R. HEENE: Where?


R. HEENE: He is there -- I think he was just here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, he's in there, dad Falcon is in there.

R. HEENE: Where?


COOPER: So there it is in a nutshell. Make of it what you will.

The questions now, if this were all a hoax, should the parents be charged with serious felonies that carry years behind bars? And then, what about the kids? Is it in their best interest to be removed from the home and placed in protective custody?

With us now our legal analysts, Jeffrey Toobin and Lisa Bloom. Jeff, I've just got to start it off with you. Because when you call it right, you deserve to be praised for it. And you were way ahead of the curve on this one you called it like you see it. Let's take a look what you said on Friday night.


COOPER: Very briefly, balloon boy, hoax or not?


COOPER: Really? You don't think it's a hoax?

TOOBIN: No hoax. I am -- I believe that...

COOPER: You believe the balloon boy? TOOBIN: I believe in the Heene...

COOPER: Heene.

TOOBIN: Heene family. I think they're OK.

COOPER: OK. All right.

TOOBIN: Put me down.



TOOBIN: Can I just say in my defense, whatever.

BLOOM: That is harsh, I object on behalf of my client.

TOOBIN: I believe in the essential goodness of reality show contestants. All right? So sue me, all right? That's just who I am.

BLOOM: Do you have my clips on Friday night, by the way?

COOPER: So now are you still of that opinion? Or have you...

TOOBIN: It's not looking too good. It's not looking too good for the Heenes -- as I now know how to pronounce the name correctly. Yes. The circle is tightening it seems, but I also do think in the spirit -- I think we need to not get carried away.

I mean, fundamentally what happened here is there was a false police report made; that's a misdemeanor. To turn it into a conspiracy and taking the kids away, I think we really need to be very careful before we're throwing people in jail for a ridiculous but still mostly comic stunt.

BLOOM: Well, but there're two sets of charges, right? There was the filing of a false police reports/hoax set of charges.

And then, there's a whole different set of issues relating to the children. I mean, getting the children to lie to the police and to the media. Potentially, endangering the children by taking them storm chasing, engaging in this crazy behavior. That's why they're being looked at by CPS, I think not so much into the hoax.

COOPER: We've got to take a quick break

TOOBIN: Oh yes.

COOPER: But hold that thought...

TOOBIN: I assume we're going to do the whole hour?

COOPER: No we're not. Just one more segment to cover this.

TOOBIN: Sadly only more segment. (CROSS TALK)

BLOOM: And we're going to have you make more predictions.


COOPER: ... as Lisa mentioned, there are very serious questions underpinning this absurd story, questions about Mr. Heene's temper and Mrs. Heene's safety. And what happens to the kids if mom and dad face felony charges?

Let us know what you think. Join the live chat right now at

We just want to congratulate Jeff also on his prescience.

Later, flu fears and facts of the virus spreading faster than the vaccine to stop it. We've got a doctor joining us. You can send your questions right now by going to, again, Tweet them to @Anderson Cooper or post them at We'll be right back.


COOPER: Oh balloon boy, while this was happening, it seemed possible that the 6-year-old boy was inside that balloon.

But now, of course, we know he never was. And police are saying it was a hoax. Police have the balloon in their possession -- which I must admit is a sentence I never thought I would find myself uttering -- but the balloon is in police possession.

And CNN's Jim Spellman got an up close look at the contraption.


JIM SPELLMAN, CNN PRODUCER: From a distance, from the helicopter cameras, it looked like a really kind of a sophisticated weather balloon.

But if you look up close here, it's -- it looks like aluminum foil. You can see scotch tape holding it together. Here is a little duct tape.

It looks like it's a thin frame of thin wood here. As you come around on the inside here, you can see some of these wires here. And inside you see three nine volt batteries.


COOPER: How a little kid would have sat up that balloon, I have no idea. Nine volt batteries and tape and a tale the police just do not believe.

I want to bring back our legal analysts: Jeffrey Toobin and Lisa Bloom. Before we get back to you guys, I just want to show you kind of an undiscovered moment that actually wasn't aired from the Heene interview when Wolf Blitzer is saying hello to them before the interview began.

Let's watch that.


R. HEENE: There is Wolf.


BLITZER: Hi, guys.

F. HEENE: Who the hell is Wolf?


COOPER: Oh, Falcon; Falcon Heene. That was Falcon Heene saying, "Who the hell is Wolf?"

BLOOM: He's not a fan.

COOPER: I'm going to play that for years, by the way.

BLOOM: Falcon doesn't know the Wolf. There's something very poetic in that?

COOPER: Yes, so seriously though, what kind of charges could they face?

BLOOM: Well, they face, as you say, potentially felony charges. I agree with Jeffrey though that it's very unlikely they're going to serve any time behind bars. This is a misdemeanor.

What the sheriff apparently is looking for -- and I think the sheriff is taking this a little personally, by the way -- is restitution, paying the money back.

But these guys apparently don't two nickels to rub together. So I don't know how he's going to get the restitution and ultimately it could be ordered maybe the wages could be garnished to Richard Heene. But that's about it.

COOPER: But it's also not clear at this point what his real source of employment is. Dan Simon is saying he is known for doing some...

BLOOM: Tile work, tile work.

TOOBIN: When you don't know how someone supports themselves, they usually don't.

COOPER: Right.

TOOBIN: I mean there is usually not some secret pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. I think restitution is a reasonable order to give here. But we -- it is a bad thing that he did. But it is important to keep in mind that no one was hurt. He doesn't appear to have taken any money. As a result of it -- it was a career-building, apparently, endeavor that didn't work.

But, I mean, you know, I think it's important to keep it in perspective.

COOPER: In the history of reality TV and oh, what a history it's been, I mean this is sort of the perfect -- I don't know. I don't know if it's a tipping point. But this is sort of the perfect culmination of years of people obsessing about being on a reality TV show to actually have somebody kind of go to this extent.

BLOOM: Well, look at octomom. I mean, she wanted to get a reality show. She only got a British company ultimately could do it.

COOPER: Do you think these people can actually get a reality TV show now?

TOOBIN: Well, that's the scary thought now...

BLOOM: Absolutely I do.

TOOBING: ... is that they are a heck of a lot - they are a heck of a lot more famous now...

BLOOM: That's right.

TOOBIN: ... than they were at the beginning.

COOPER: Right. But the level of public anger and outrage that people wasted two hours of their lives watching this ridiculous stuff on television and worrying about this kid...

TOOBIN: No, think how much hatred was projected on to the octomom.

COOPER: Yes but I mean, she's had some show...

BLOOM: She's got a deal with a British company now for a reality show.

TOOBIN: But she made some money and...

BLOOM: And she's made a lot of money. The only way she's made money since the children have been born is by selling stories and selling pictures.

TOOBIN: I have enough of low faith in the American people...

BLOOM: That's right.

TOOBIN: ... and in the broadcast industry that I think there will be a small deal somewhere for these folks.

BLOOM: Yes. COOPER: I don't think they'll get a deal.

TOOBIN: You think not?

COOPER: I don't believe so.

TOOBIN: See, I got in trouble for not being cynical enough.

BLOOM: You know, and by the way I also think we who make a living on television have to be a little careful about criticizing people who want to be on television. I mean this is a family...

COOPER: I don't know what you're talking about.

BLOOM: Because we're always saying oh, these people, they want to be on TV, how low can you go.

TOOBIN: Well and also there's the critics...


BLOOM: These are ordinary folks who want to get a reality show.

COOPER: We who work in TV know how low it's been though.

TOOBIN: Well, but also the criticism of them for putting their children out for interviews, you know, we beg them for interviews.

BLOOM: That's right.

TOOBIN: We try very hard.

COOPER: I do think it was amusing though, during the Larry King interview when the guy says -- when Richard Heene says like, we weren't even going to do this interview. We thought if we did this interview we wouldn't have to do any other interviews.

BLOOM: Right.

COOPER: And then, American pointing out the other day, you turn on the TV on a Friday morning, they're on every morning network.

TOOBIN: They are on the next -- they are everywhere.


BLOOM: But wait a second, these are unsophisticated people who aren't familiar with morning show...

TOOBIN: Oh no, wait a minute, wait a minute.

COOPER: I'm not sure.

BLOOM: Yes, they are, they've been on "Wife Swap" that doesn't make them sophisticated.

COOPER: They've never been on "Wife Swap" twice but...


BLOOM: OK, but they have never been on a morning show before; they've never been on Larry King or CNN before.

TOOBIN: You don't have to be that sophisticated to say no.

COOPER: Right.

TOOBIN: ... to say, I don't want...

BLOOM: Yes, but why should they say no? I mean this is their moment.

TOOBIN: Why shouldn't they say now because he, because he apparently was committing a crime here, why should he go on TV broadcasting everything?

BLOOM: Well, that's a different story. By the way, where is the arrest of these people? We have the sheriff going out and making a big statement.

COOPER: Now it's interesting their attorney has come forward....

BLOOM: Nobody's been arrested yet.

COOPER: ... and said it would be the lowest point of -- you know, lower than low to arrest these people in public. Does that make sense to you?

BLOOM: Right -- to do the -- have them do the perp walk.


TOOBIN: Well, you know, if you have people who are not going anywhere, who are not a risk of flight, it is customary for the police to call their lawyers and say surrender at such and such a time. The police don't have to do that.

But if the lawyer volunteers to surrender the -- his clients or whoever may be arrested, and by the way, it's not at all clear that the wife is also involved in this. I don't know...

BLOOM: Well, she's the one that called 911. And she's there on the video and setting the whole thing up.

TOOBIN: Well, but I mean, it's not a crime to call 911. I mean, you don't know whether...

BLOOM: No, she's participating in making a false report.

TOOBIN: Well, if she is, I mean, we don't know.

BLOOM: Right, but all I want to say is that the sheriff, I think, is taking this a little bit personally. He's gotten out in front of the story now before the arrest has been made. He lied to all of us on Friday, which he now admits. And he said he did it to get the family's cooperation.

Jeffrey apparently even believed it on Friday.

COOPER: But he'll believe anything.

BLOOM: These are great people.

So I just think we have to keep in mind these are regular folks with no money who apparently did something stupid and the sheriff and the media are all over them. And I'd like to see the facts.

COOPER: We will - we'll see what happens.

TOOBIN: Get to the bottom of it.

COOPER: Lisa Bloom, appreciate it.

TOOBIN: Absolutely.

COOPER: Jeff "Rube" Toobin, I appreciate it.

TOOBIN: That's me.

COOPER: Up ahead tonight: no hoax, no jokes. Swine flu, the CDC said they would have 40 million doses of the vaccine available by the end of October. Then they said there would be only 28 million. So where is all the vaccine? And why are there only just about 11 million doses right now?

Tonight the delay, the concerns, and what you need to know to keep your kids safe. We'll be taking your questions. You can go to to get your answers by a doctor who'll be joining us shortly.

And later, women in the workplace, soon they will be outnumbering men. We'll have the ground breaking impact and a reaction from Suze Orman and Arianna Huffington, and Faye Wattleton.

We'll be right back.


COOPER: Just ahead a big shift in "Strategy" in the pot wars: the Justice Department's new policy for medical marijuana users.

First, some of the other important stories we're following. Erica Hill has a "360 News and Business Bulletin" -- Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, a college football player stabbed to death, that death now ruled a homicide. The medical examiner said today, Jasper Howard died of a stab wound to the abdomen. The U-Conn cornerback was injured when a fight broke out after a student dance on Saturday night. Police say they do not believe it was a random act. A "360 Follow": Prosecutors clearing a Chicago teenager of first-degree murder charge in the beating death of a 16-year-old honor student Derrion Albert. Eighteen-year-old Eugene Bailey was released from custody; three other teens are still facing charges. That beating of course was videotaped that led President Obama to send two top Cabinet members to Chicago to address the ongoing violence.

And another hoax by the Yes Men. If you don't know them, it's a group of activists known for posing as corporate execs and this time they pretended to be the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. Sent out a fake press release announcing a dramatic shift in the business lobby's position on climate change, even hosted a fake news conference at the National Press Club.

Well, the whole thing came to a head in front of a room full of reporters -- and we should point out CNN was not there -- this handout video shows what happens when a real chamber official confronted the imposter.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any questions? You are welcome to direct them to me or the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who are you really, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And do you have a business card? Are you with the U.S. Chamber?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do. We can discuss it afterwards.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I see your business card?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you here representing the U.S. Chamber of Commerce?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I work there and you do not look familiar to me at all. Can I see your business card?


HILL: And there you have it.

COOPER: Bizarre.

All right, still ahead, women in the workplace: no longer a minority; soon, a majority -- a major shift that's affecting virtually every family. We'll "Dig Deeper" on what it means for all of us with our panel: Suze Orman, Arianna Huffington, and Faye Wattleton, just ahead. Later, answers to your question about swine flu and the H1N1 vaccine. We'll have a doctor on hand to separate fact from fiction go. Send your questions by going to our Web site, or Twitter us @Anderson Cooper or go to


COOPER: Tonight, we're taking a close look at woman, work and a milestone. By the end of this year, for the first time more than half of American workers will be women. Forty years ago they made up just a third of all workers and that shift from minority to majority is transforming more than the workplace.

It is the focus of a special issue of the "Time" magazine, "The State of the American Woman." "Time" teamed up with the Rockefeller Center to find out how women and men are reacting to their changing roles at work and at home.

Excuse me - as "Time" puts it women's buying power has never been greater and their choices never harder. Last February first lady, Michelle Obama put it this way.


MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: This issue is something that I have dealt with my whole life, trying to figure out how to juggle work-family balance in the process of getting an education. There isn't a day that goes by, particularly after having kids, that I don't wonder or worry about whether I'm doing the right thing for myself, for my family, for my girls.


COOPER: Well, the struggle that Michelle Obama describes is not likely to go away. But when it comes to how society views working mothers and working women without kids, there have been some important shifts.

"Time" isn't the only one looking at this. The Center for American Progress has issued the Shriver Report which examines the same issues. Erica Hill joins us now - Erica.

HILL: Well, Anderson, as you pointed out, women are increasingly an important part of the U.S. workforce, a reality that many American families are living firsthand. 40 percent of women it turns out are now the primary earner in their home.

And here's one indication of why. Three quarters of the jobs lost as the recession began nearly two years ago were held by men. In a lot of families, more women had to go back to work. Good news for many of those families, though, 89 percent of men and women in this Time/Rockefeller Foundation poll say they're comfortable with the notion of a woman earning more.

It's interesting, though, when you start to break things down a little bit though why -- the jobs that women actually hold today. The Shriver Report seems to suggest not much has changed for women since they started entering the workforce, when you look at those jobs.

Among the top jobs for women in 2008: secretary or administrative assistant, nurse, and teacher ranking the top three. Those positions, of course, traditionally held by women really since they first entered the workforce and even since more women began receiving college degrees.

Now we should point out here as does the study, women are branching out. Despite though now making up half of the workforce, the Shriver Report found many industries continue to be highly segregated, Anderson, based on sex.

COOPER: You talk about the growing acceptance. But if you dig deeper, Erica, there is still unease over women in the workforce in some areas.

HILL: There is some. And it's really fascinating when you break it down further. The responses, frankly, more telling. Less than a third of children these days grow up with a stay at home parent. And many believe this has had a negative infect on society; about 65 percent. Of course, most families though need two incomes these days.

When asked, though, who should stay home if that is an option, the majority of respondents were clear even though they're ok with women working, they contribute wealth to society in that role if, one parent can stay home, it should be mom respondents said. Dad should be the one out there working.

COOPER: Well, you know, "Time" also found in poll after poll that women were more anxious than men about their family's financial security. In 2008 women's earnings fell 2 percent, twice as much as men's.

Let's dig deeper now with personal finance expert Suze Orman; also Arianna Huffington, editor-in-chief of the Huffington Post; and Faye Wattleton, president and co-founder of the Center for the Advancement of Women.

Suze, 89 percent of both men and women said that they were comfortable with women earning more than men. You take issue with that finding though.

SUZE ORMAN, PERSONAL FINANCE EXPERT: Yes, I don't believe it. I think men very often will say, "It's fine, no problem. I don't care if my wife earns more than me."

I talk to them personally. And when you really talk to them, Anderson, they do have a problem with it. But they don't like to admit it.

Women, if you ask them, would rather earn less than their husbands so their husband would feel better. Men, if you ask them, would really want to earn more than their wife, but if their wife happens to be earning more, they say OK, but deep down inside I do not believe they feel it's OK. COOPER: Arianna, it's interesting. Forty percent of women are the primary breadwinner in the homes but women still earn 78 cents on the dollar compared to men. I mean how far really have women come then?

ARIANNA HUFFINGTON, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "THE HUFFINGTON POST": Well, obviously we've come a long way, Anderson. But I think Suze is right. There are many sort of psychological responses that men have had through thousands of years of evolution and it's really hard to change them. And that's why the result a lot of the additional stress put on women is because they have to do everything they're doing and at the same time do it in a way that is less threatening so that as Marlo Thomas said all those years ago, "For a man to be called ruthless, you have to be Joe McCarthy. For a woman to be called ruthless, you have to put somebody on hold."

So there are still these different expectations about how women behave in the workplace, how women behave as bosses. And the guilt throughout the juggling act that Michelle Obama talks about is enormous, especially when you become a mother.

COOPER: It's also, Faye, for African-American women, there is a longer history of being the breadwinner outside in the workforce.

FAYE WATTLETON, CO-FOUNDER, CENTER FOR ADVANCEMENT OF WOMEN: That's correct because our history is replete with family disruption in this current -- in the current time of the 21st century. Many African-American men are incarcerated and so African-American women do carry an enormous burden. And traditionally have carried a greater burden than perhaps their white counterpart.

We were the ones who were working as domestics before this tremendous invasion into the workplace of all women. So it is -- it has been a long tradition of carrying the burden of the family alone.

COOPER: Suze, men have lost majority jobs since the recession began. Are women easier to employ because companies can pay them less?

ORMAN: I personally think that's the truth, Anderson. Think about it. Women have a very hard time going in and asking for a raise. You know, a study that was done said when women go to ask for a raise, it's almost as if it's like going to a dentist. They can't stand it. When a man goes to ask for a raise, he considers it going to battle, like going to war. He enjoys it.

So I think a lot of men were let go because they were higher paid. Women are in there, they make less money and they demand less and therefore corporations make more.

COOPER: Do you buy that, Faye?

WATTLETON: Yes, I would agree with that. Other studies have shown that women don't value the work that they contribute in the workplace. That they do not themselves place the same value on their work and their contribution that men place on theirs, so that, therefore they're somewhat timid about asking for more compensation.

And this old pattern of whether a woman needs a certain level of compensation is still very much with us. We don't break these patterns very easily. And very often it is considered well she's a second breadwinner, so we don't have to pay her.

But we know that the gap in wages opens right after college. Women are going to college in unprecedented numbers. But the wage gap opens right after college and it doesn't close throughout the career lifetime of a woman.

COOPER: Arianna, that term battle of the sexes used to be such a common term. You sort of hear it a lot on television. Is the notion that a woman's rise somehow comes at a man's expense a thing of the past?

HUFFINGTON: I don't think so. And unfortunately, Anderson, what we see is in hard economic times like right now when so many couples have to make very hard choices, we see an increase in domestic violence. And we see an increase in -- even when there's no violence -- in major tensions between the couples. So, no, these are issues that I'm very glad tat we're discussing them. Because very often the polls do not tell us the truth because people say what they think the pollster and the community want to hear.

COOPER: We're going to take a short break and we're going to have more with Suze, Faye, and Arianna. Stay right there.

We'll back in just a moment with a new study on a related subject, bullying in the office. Are men the biggest adversaries for women at work? We've got some surprising results ahead.

And taking the federal heat off the states where medical marijuana is legal; a big change coming up when we continue.


COOPER: We're talking about women's growing presence in the workplace; by the end of the year, women will make up more than half of American workers. That milestone doesn't mean that women have achieved equality in every profession or certainly even in pay. But it does mean that more women work with and for other women than they used to.

We asked Tom Foreman to look at that angle of the story.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Anderson. You know, we posed a question on our blog, who hurts working women more, men or women? Well, we'll get to the results in just a bit.

But first, look at this: a survey of the Zogby Polling Organization for a group that works against bullying on the job. It found that while men are more likely to be bullies, their victims are pretty well evenly divided between the sexes. But when women are bullies, they found that 71 percent of the time, the people they target are other women, interfering with promotions, spreading rumors and humiliating them in front of co-workers.

COOPER: I know some people fear this is basically just kind of a deep-seated stereotype; that people give that answer on a survey because that image of women is reinforced a lot of times. Did blog readers, what did they have to say?

FOREMAN: You know that's a very valid question, Anderson. And it's one we ask ourselves this morning saying what would normal people out there say? We threw this out here and the response was absolutely overwhelming.

Many people said they share that concern. Many women answering our blog, but then they said things like this, overwhelmingly, "I'd rather work for a man anytime. Women are more backstabby and catty." That was Melissa who said that.

If we look at what Joy had to say, "The glass ceiling may not have been created by women but sure is maintained by them."

And then if we look over here at what Heather said, "There are so few positions of leadership for women that I think women in those positions are afraid if they do mentor someone that they can steal their job. Especially in this economy, it is every woman for herself."

We saw this over and over and over again, Anderson. There were a few people who said otherwise. But by and large, there were lots of women were saying, "I don't want to say it, I don't want to admit it, I don't want it to be had way but this is the reality."

I'm dying to hear what your panel says about this, Anderson.

COOPER: And we should point out, Tom, obviously blog posts are not in any way a scientific survey. Let's dig deep with our panel: joining me again -- Suze Orman and Arianna Huffington and Faye Wattleton.

Suze what do you think of that?

ORMAN: Anderson, I was hoping you weren't going to come to me first. However, I have to say -- go to Arianna -- and I'll just follow whatever she says. In this particular case, I'm so sorry to say that I happen to agree with a lot of the polls in that...

COOPER: Really?

ORMAN: Yes, and I don't want to. Insecure women can really back stab and be horrific to work with and work for. Secure women who know their own value actually are wonderful to work with, help lift other women. So it's just not women are like this. It's what kind of women, insecure women, it's horrific to work for. Secure women, will help others.

COOPER: Why do you think this is, to Arianna, why do you think this is like this? Is it that women believe there is only a certain number of slots for them and, therefore, competition is, you know, that they have to compete against another woman in order to get that predetermined slot?

HUFFINGTON: Yes. Absolutely. I think insecurity is the key. The sense of scarcity, that there are only so few jobs and that you're competing with another woman. There are only so few men and you are competing another woman.

And at the same time, I want to stress that there are so many other examples of the opposite. I mean the sense of solidarity among women, there's nothing better than that; the sense of belonging to a tribe that supports each other. I mean that has been something that throughout my life I have treasured more than anything. And I see that more and more.

Maybe it's anecdotal. But there is no question that as women become more secure, more established, it's going to change.

WATTLETON: Well, I think that it will change. But I think we sometimes blame the victims. And the kind of behavior that you have described probably has to do more with the nature of the workplace and the fact that while women have entered the workplace in unprecedented numbers we're not at the top of the food chain. We're not in the most powerful position.

And so the people who are most vulnerable are likely to turn not on the people who are more powerful, but those that are least vulnerable. And, you know, we don't have very many Fortune 500 CEOs. There are fewer women in those positions this is year than there were last year.

COOPER: It's...

WATTLETON: You know, we have a very long way to go to really penetrate the power structure. Until that happens, you will not see stability among the workforce, among women -- in the workforce among women. And there is certainly likely to be that competitive ahead.

COOPER: As women though have gained -- you look at a number of surveys, Suze or any of you, as women have gained more freedom, more economic power, they're actually less happy in surveys. Why do you think that is? I mean what do you make of that?

ORMAN: I think they feel guilty, I'm sorry to say. Go on. But I personally just think that they feel guilty. Listen, just because women are making more money -- and I've said this to you many times when I've been on the show -- they're still, in my opinion, not making more out of the money they make.

They actually are using it to help others versus to help themselves. So they aren't gaining their true economic power with the money they make. And when you're truly powerful, that's when you're really happy. And women still aren't truly powerful over their money.


WATTLETON: The deal is that women have entered the workforce but they have not been relieved of the domestic responsibilities. There has been the add-on. Our research has demonstrated the women say that, yes, I am in the workforce and I want to have a successful career. But I'm not relieved of the traditional role that I have in the home.

That's changing. But it hasn't changed in the proportion to the demands outside the home.

HUFFINGTON: I think there is another reason which is that women who are mothers or have to keep the household going and have a job have a much harder time bringing balance into their lives. And there's a sense of perpetual exhaustion.

Sometimes there's nothing more important than getting some sleep. You know? That's the essential for me in bringing balance to your life. And I talk to more sleep-deprived friends among women than among men.


HUFFINGTON: So that's part of what we need to change. And we need to be pioneers there. Because we need to sort of lead the way in terms of how to be successful without having a heart attack or an ulcer in your 50s.

COOPER: On this program, we don't recommend anyone sleep before midnight. So I'm going to have to edit that part out, Arianna.

But Arianna, I appreciate you being on; Suze Orman and Faye Wattleton, as well. Thank you very much. Good discussion.

Some raw data now: in keeping with this week's special series, "LATINO IN AMERICA" more new numbers from "Time" magazine. Eighty- four percent of Latinos say more women in the workplace is positive for society. Thirty-seven percent of Latino women believe a woman can have a fulfilling life without marriage. Fifty-four percent of Latinos of both genders strongly agree that in households where both partners have jobs, women take on more responsibilities for the home and family than their male partners do.

And a quick reminder, you can catch "LATINO IN AMERICA" this week Wednesday and Thursday nights at 8 Eastern Time right here on CNN. Actually, it's 9 Eastern Time on Wednesday night and 9 Eastern Time on Thursday night.

Tomorrow, my interview with Eva Longoria; she joins me to talk about "LATINO IN AMERICA," the groundbreaking special. She also tells us about the role of Latinos in Hollywood. That's tomorrow night on the program.

Next, your swine flu fears addressed. Where is the vaccine? How can you get it? Why are some hospitals turning people away? Please send us your questions on our Web site, Twitter us @AndersonCooper or go to Facebook/AndersonCooper360. The doctor's here to answer them.

Also, legalizing marijuana; not quite. But law enforcement will be more laid back when it comes to prosecuting some pot smokers. Details ahead.


COOPER: Two potentially scary facts tonight about the H1N1 swine flu. It's nearly everywhere, but the vaccine against it is not. And according to CDC, H1N1 is widespread in at least 41 states right now. Yet, due to production difficulties, the 40 million doses of vaccine expected this month have been trimmed down to about 28 million with only just over 11 million doses out there right now.

Hospitals preparing for possible traffic jams in the ICU. Some have barred children from visiting sick relatives to limit the H1N1 spread. And people have a lot of questions.

Here with some answers is internist Jorge Rodriguez.

Doctor, appreciate you being with us. Why is it taking the CDC longer to create the vaccine than planned? And where are the doses that are available already?

DR. JORGE RODRIGUEZ, INTERNIST: Well, it's a good question, Anderson. First of all, the CDC isn't making the vaccine. It's being made by four different manufacturers. So basically, they're at the mercy of the manufacturers.

Eleven million vaccines have already been made. Six million have been distributed. And I think that this vaccine is becoming a little bit more finicky and difficult to make than first expected.

So we're expecting another 18 million vaccines -- actually CNN spoke with the CDC tonight -- another 18 million by the end of the month. They said that actually, those figures might have to be revised, because the production is not going as quickly as planned.

COOPER: We've got a question from Ashley wanted to know, "What are the side effects of the H1N1 vaccine? Are any of them fatal?"

RODRIGUEZ: Well, the -- first of all, this is a very safe vaccine, as safe as any other flu vaccine. The most common side effect is a localized inflammation in the area that you got the vaccine, redness, a little bit of fever. If anybody has anything other than that, a life-threatening side effect could happen within the first 24 to 48 hours.

Again, none has been found in all the trials of this vaccine. But people need to be on the lookout for, example, paralysis or things that happen within a few days of getting the vaccine.

COOPER: We've got a Facebook question from Cathy. She wonders, "Why is the H1N1 nasal spray not approved for people over 49?" She's 51.

RODRIGUEZ: Well, the nasal spray is an inactivated vaccine. This actually is a live virus that has been made a little bit impotent. It isn't recommended for people that are immune- compromised. It isn't recommended for older people that have more of a suppressed immune system. I know I don't want to consider 51 old, but statistically, it is. So people that are over 51 need to be vaccinated, though.

COOPER: Another question from Laura wonders, "If the flu is peaking early this year (I have heard October versus February) will the vaccine even be of value by the time we get the two required doses into our kids?"

And before you answer, I just want to show our viewers that what Laura is talking about, that first line -- let's put that graphic up -- the first line shows flu visits to doctors' offices from the last flu season. The second line shows flu visits most recently. And look at the difference. We're already above peak levels that are usually seen in February.

RODRIGUEZ: Yes. That's a very dramatic graph. And if you notice, the visits are up six times what they are at this time of the year. I think where she's a little, maybe, misunderstanding, is that this may not be peaking now. That's our concern, that that line that you saw may just continue going.

So optimistically, yes, hopefully, it will peak within the next month. But I don't think so. So it isn't that it's peaking; it's just that it's revving up a lot earlier than usual.

COOPER: I appreciate you being on the program, Dr. Rodriguez. Thanks a lot.

RODRIGUEZ: Thank you, Anderson.

COOPER: You can get a state-by-state map of the flu activity on our Web site at

Coming up next, medical marijuana reversal; we'll tell you what the new pot policy means for your state.

Also fighting back: an interracial couple denied a marriage license; we told you this story Friday. We led the broadcast with it; denied a marriage license because of race.

The justice of the peace is now speaking out for the first time. Hear how he defends what he did. Yes, that's right, he's still defending himself.

We'll be right back.


COOPER: All right. Let's get caught up on some of the other stories we're following. Erica Hill has the "360 Bulletin" -- Erica.

HILL: Anderson, a big shift. When it comes to pot, a new Justice Department memo says -- it tells federal prosecutors not to target people who use or distribute marijuana for medical use as long as they are in compliance with state laws. The memo says agents have more important things to do. Those guidelines reverse a Bush administration crackdown. Currently, 14 states have some laws linked to medical marijuana.

A 360 Follow, Beth and Terence McKay, the interracial Louisiana couple denied a marriage license from a justice of the peace, now have a lawyer. They said today they are in the process of making sure Keith Bardwell loses his job.

Bardwell, however, doesn't believe he's done anything wrong.


KEITH BARDWELL, JUSTICE OF THE PEACE: I have one problem with marrying mixed-race marriages, and that is the offspring.

Absolutely not. My definition of racists is they hate black people or treat black people different than anybody else.


HILL: And the Beverly Hills doctor who gave fertility treatments to the so-called octomom, Nadya Suleman, has now been kicked out of the American Society for Reproductive Medicine. A spokesman for the group says Dr. Michael Kamrava repeatedly violated standards. But this doesn't mean he isn't practicing. He can still practice, because his association, Anderson, with the group was voluntary.

COOPER: And he'll get his own reality show.

Time now for "The Shot," Erica: the question that absolutely nobody but nobody should have to ask, nobody over age 6, that is. Play that, please.




FALCON HEENE, BALLOON BOY: Who the hell is Wolf?

R. HEENE: I told you not to cuss.


COOPER: Who the hell is Wolf?

HILL: I like the language, too.

COOPER: Oh, out of the mouths of babes.

HILL: And that -- that's tame from what we heard on YouTube, those kids. Whew.

COOPER: There's only a certain amount of time one has to run with some clips that you have, you know, that some of our favorite clips like...

HILL: Use it while you got it.

COOPER: So I think this is probably the last time we can get away with showing this.


R. HEENE: That's what he was referring to.

That's what he was referring to when...


COOPER: Just keep going, Meredith. Keep going, Richard.


MEREDITH VIEIRA, NBC HOST: I want to point out that the sheriff said last night that...


HILL: I'd like to make a prediction. Anderson Cooper will find a way to work that back in.

COOPER: Do you think I will?

HILL: This will not be the last time you see that clip.

COOPER: I think maybe you're right, Erica Hill.

HILL: It's true.

COOPER: Darn you, you're good.

HILL: I'm the wise one.

COOPER: That does it for 360. Thanks for watching.

"LARRY KING" starts right now.

I'll see you tomorrow night at 10:00 p.m.