Return to Transcripts main page
ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Arrested for Teaching Sex Ed?; United TEA Party?; Rainy Season Danger in Haiti; Not Failing Students
Aired April 8, 2010 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Tonight, "Keeping Them Honest." A district attorney tells teachers if they use a new government-approved Sex Ed course, they could be arrested for promoting the sexual abuse of kids and end up in jail.
Also tonight, TEA Partiers unite. They say they're forming a national federation and Sarah Palin could play a crucial role; "Raw Politics" ahead.
Plus, saving Haiti, time running out to move tens of thousands of people to safety before the worst of the rains arrive. And why is it taking so long? We'll talk to Sean Penn on the ground in Port-au- Prince.
First up, though, "Keeping Them Honest." Should teaching Sex Ed be a crime? Now, this is not a hypothetical question. In Wisconsin a district attorney has warned teachers that if they use a new state government mandated Sex Ed course, they could be committing a crime and serve up to six years in prison.
Now, this is the letter the district attorney sent out to five school districts. And he's going to be on the program in a minute to defend the letter. But I just want to show you what the Sex Ed course is -- that he's opposed to is actually designed to teach.
It was approved by the state government. No Republicans support it, I should point out, but Democrats passed it. The D.A. is Republican, by the way.
The course is designed to be age appropriate, and it's described as an instructional program in human growth and development for students from kindergarten to 12th grade.
So what exactly does it teach? I want to show you just some of the specifics. Take a look at this. This is wording from the -- from the actual law passed -- passed in Wisconsin. It teaches the benefits and reasons for abstaining from sexual activity. That's one of the things. It also teaches the health benefits, side effects and proper use of contraceptives. It will also teach how alcohol and drug use affect responsible decision-making. And it will also help students identify counseling, medical and legal resources for survivors of sexual abuse and assault.
Now, the schools can decide not to teach the course at all. They're not forced to teach it. And parents can take their kids out of the class. Still, the prosecutor says this course teaches kids how to have sex and will lead to sexual abuse of children and to teachers who teach it, they could wind up in jail.
Let's talk to the district attorney. His name is Scott Southworth. And coincidentally, he was actually a "CNN Hero" in 2007 after he adopted a child from Iraq.
COOPER: So Scott, you wrote this letter and sent it out to districts in your area. And a lot of your critics say that essentially this was a threat to get them not to obey the law, and not to decide to teach these Sex Education classes. Why did you send the letter?
SCOTT SOUTHWORTH, D.A. JUNEAU COUNTY, WISCONSIN: Well, first of all, it certainly wasn't a threat. I love the teachers in my district. My child goes to school in the Juneau County. And what I really wanted to do is protect them and protect students.
Unfortunately, this new mandate that the state has imposed takes us from Sex Education instruction, which I support, involving human reproduction, human physiology and crosses the line and goes way too far into instructing children effectively how to engage in recreational sex.
COOPER: But kids are obviously having sex. I mean, as the -- I mean, from all generations, kids have always had sex in high school. You don't prosecute kids for having sex.
SOUTHWORTH: Actually we do, because it's against the law. And I get referrals frequently on children who are having sexual intercourse and sexual contact. It's against the law in Wisconsin. And what I want to make sure is that we don't, A, have more victims because they believe that the teachers implicitly or explicitly encouraging them to go out and have sex, and B, we don't put our teachers in a position where someone files a complaint against that teacher for encouraging those kids to have sex. I want to protect the kids and the teachers until we can repeal or amend this particular law.
COOPER: But you say in the letter that even if the teachers have a thought that somebody is having sex and teaches class that basically that they can be -- they can be punished because of that. I mean, are you -- should teachers, then, if they know that two of their students are have -- if two 16-year-olds are having sex with each other, should they report those students to the authorities?
SOUTHWORTH: They're required to report sexual assault of children. And in the state of Wisconsin, because it's illegal, children also cannot give consent. There is no such thing as consensual sex with a child or by children. COOPER: To your critics, though, they say look, that this goes beyond -- way beyond legal opinion. That it offers personal opinion and political opinion. In the letter, you write, quote, "These new mandates will make my job much more difficult by converting objective human growth and development programming into a radical program that sexualizes our children as early as kindergarten."
I mean, that sounds like a political statement much more than a legal one, that this is a radical program to sexualize kids.
SOUTHWORTH: Well, I believe it is a radical program to sexualize kids. And if it's viewed as political, I mean, let's make it clear. I'm an elected political leader. But I did everything I could to be, you know, honorable and act with great integrity. And I worked very hard to ensure that I was giving a legal opinion on this particular act and not my personal opinion.
COOPER: So I mean, is it really your responsibility to then send out this letter to schools? Isn't it kind of injecting yourself into this? And again, it raises the question of, you know, you are an elected official. You are a Republican. Is this just about politics to appeal to your base?
SOUTHWORTH: Well, no. I'm not up for re-election. I'm not running for anything at this point in time. And I've never sent a letter to my school districts in the five-plus years that I've been district attorney about Sex Education. And in my letter it doesn't say how they should teach or not teach. That's an issue that the school boards are going to have to deal with.
The legislature has put a mandate on the schools on what they have to teach if they choose to teach human growth and development. My job ethically, was to say this is a change in the law, and here's the dichotomy in the law that teachers and our school boards now face. And I wanted them to know what the -- the law states, where I think some of the problems are, and what I recommend them to do until the legislature in the next legislative cycle can address it either to amend or repeal.
COOPER: Scott Southworth, I appreciate you being on. Thank you.
COOPER: We'd like to get different viewpoints on this program. I want to bring in now our legal analyst Lisa Bloom. Lisa, is there a legal basis for this?
LISA BLOOM, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely not, Anderson. And if this district attorney doesn't understand the difference between teaching Sex Ed in schools and encouraging the sexual abuse of children, frankly, he is not fit to hold public office.
He doesn't understand what every other district attorney in this country understands, which is giving children factual information about human anatomy and about sex and about birth control is a far cry from contributing to the delinquency of a minor. I'm absolutely shocked.
And although he tries to backpedal and say, "I'm not threatening anyone," why is he sending this letter to schools as a district attorney? Obviously, he is threatening teachers.
COOPER: Well, he's saying it's a warning to teachers about what they -- that they could be liable for this in a civil case or even criminally.
BLOOM: It's an absolute abuse of his power as a district attorney. My goodness, has he caught all the murders and rapists in his jurisdiction? He's got nothing left to do except going after hardworking, underpaid teachers? Are you kidding me?
Look, the legislature of Wisconsin passed a law enabling schools to teach Sex Ed. And you outlined it at the beginning of this segment. There's nothing in there about teaching kids how to have sex. In fact, one of the very worthy parts of this program is teaching kids what to do if they are sexually abused.
COOPER: Well, I mean, his -- his point, though, I think, and his biggest problem is with the idea of actually teaching how to use contraceptives. He feels that's like, you know, doing a class on -- on alcoholism and teaching kids how to mix drinks. That's how he puts it.
BLOOM: Well, you know, children are entitled to factual information about the world, and children don't need to be taught how to have sex. What they need to be taught are the facts about sex, about human anatomy, reproduction and the consequences of having sex and how to protect themselves.
It's not unlawful for two 16-year-olds to have sex with each other or two 17-year-olds. When there's a difference in age, then it is unlawful. It is not unlawful for children to use contraceptives --
COOPER: I did find it interesting --
BLOOM: -- and it's certainly important --
COOPER: I did find it interesting --
BLOOM: Go ahead.
COOPER: -- that that this bill does allow parents to pull their kids out of the class if they want if they object to it, and it also encourages kids to talk to members of their family.
But to the D.A.'s point, he says it doesn't say only talk to your parents, it encourages them -- encourages them to basically shop around to any member of the family who might kind of be approving of them having sex.
BLOOM: Right. The legislature said that families can opt out of Sex Ed. And that's fine. But look, if you use this district attorney's reasoning, a parent talking to a child about sex is contributing to the delinquency of a minor.
Two kids talking about condoms or birth control or the morning- after pill could be prosecuted by him under the same reasoning. They're talking about sex. They're contributing to the delinquency of a minor. I mean, it's absolutely breathtaking the scope of what he's proposing.
COOPER: Do you think it's -- its political? I mean, he is Republican. No Republicans voted for this. It was passed by Democrats and it clearly goes against his personal and in some cases religious beliefs.
BLOOM: Well, it clearly does. And he's entitled as a citizen to speak out and try to get the laws changed through the legislature. What he's not allowed to do is to abuse his position as a district attorney which is not a political position.
He doesn't get to pick and choose the laws that he's going to enforce. He doesn't get to try to actively oppose a law that was just passed by the legislature.
COOPER: But he is an elected official.
BLOOM: He tried to threaten teachers with his office.
COOPER: He is an elected official, though. So though, I mean, that's why his critics say politics are at play. That he's appealing to his base, essentially, which he denies.
BLOOM: But he's elected as district attorney.
BLOOM: He's elected to enforce the laws of the county, and the laws are passed by the legislature. That's Civics 101. That's the way it works.
COOPER: Lisa, stick around for a minute because Bristol Palin, Sarah Palin's daughter has taped an ad about teen pregnancy, sort of relates to what we're talking about.
I want to get your take on it, even has her baby Tripp in it. Let's take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRISTOL PALIN, SARAH PALIN'S DAUGHTER: What if I didn't come from a famous family? What if I didn't have all their support?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: We'll show you the complete ad in just a moment. Also ahead, a plan for TEA Party Movements across the country to unite, forming a national federation with Sarah Palin perhaps playing a role. Details on that ahead.
COOPER: Before the break we heard from a Wisconsin prosecutor who says that teachers in his state could be committing a crime if they do what a new law tells them to do, teach a newly-mandated Sex Ed course. It's a crime for minors to have sex in Wisconsin even with other minors. It obviously still happens, though, which brings us to Bristol Palin's new public service announcement.
Sarah Palin's daughter has been campaigning against teen pregnancy using herself as a poster child of sorts. Here's the new ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALIN: What if I didn't come from a famous family? What if I didn't have all their support? What if I didn't have all these opportunities? Believe me, it wouldn't be pretty.
Pause before you play.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That's the -- her new message about teen sex. Lisa Bloom joins me again. Lisa, do you think it's effective?
BLOOM: A bit. I salute Bristol for using her celebrity to get an important message out there. But I don't think it goes far enough. To tell teens to pause isn't really giving them the information that they need.
You know, Bristol grew up in Alaska that's been criticized by Planned Parenthood for not having comprehensive Sex Ed.
I wonder if she had gotten information about for example the morning-after pill which is available over the counter to people over the age of 17 and kids under that age, if they get it by prescription. It would have made a difference in her life.
I wonder if she got information about condoms, birth control pills, the patch. Whether it might have made a difference so I think more specific information is needed to get kids to avoid --
COOPER: In her defense, though, I mean, she is saying is that pause in the ad may -- it could mean pause, go get a condom. It could mean pause, think about your life; pause, decide to wait until you're married. And she is -- I mean, she's promoting abstinence.
BLOOM: It could mean a lot of things, but that's the problem. Look as a mother of two teens generally telling my kids to pause doesn't have a big effect. Teens are impulsive. They don't understand the consequences of their actions. And I think giving them vague information is generally not all that helpful.
COOPER: But you've got to give her credit I mean, for doing this. I mean and you know --
COOPER: -- she could easily have not done it.
COOPER: Although, it's interesting, though, some people have criticized her for -- that that basically it sends a message like if you're rich and you have support, its fine. But if you don't, then don't get pregnant.
BLOOM: No, I saw a lot of humility in that ad. What she's saying is because I come from a famous family, you know, I have all of these privileges. I can wear the cute jacket and get my hair done and do a photo shoot. But for most people it's not like that. I thought that was a good message in the ad, actually.
COOPER: All right. Lisa Bloom, I appreciate it. Lisa thanks very much.
COOPER: A lot more ahead. Still ahead, the TEA Partiers unite. They plan to form a federation, a national federation. We'll have -- to take a look at that.
We're also at the leadership conference in New Orleans. We'll talk to Candy Crowley, David Gergen and John Avlon about the "Raw Politics" of what the TEA Party is doing.
Plus the latest from Haiti; more than million people are living in tent cities, the rainy season is bearing down. And why is it taking so long to move people to safety? We'll talk to Sean Penn on the ground in Port-au-Prince.
COOPER: In ""Raw Politics" tonight, a new development for the TEA Party Movement. More than 20 TEA Party groups announced today that they're forming a national federation to promote their message.
And meantime in New Orleans, the Southern Republican Leadership Conference kicked off. It's the most prominent gathering of Republicans outside their presidential nominating convention. So here's what Newt Gingrich said just a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: What the left wants to do, I mean, they know they can't win a fight when they're honest about who they are, so they want to be dishonest about who we are. What the left wants to do is say we're the party of no. And so here's what I want to ask you to encourage, every candidate you know, every incumbent you know, every staff person you know, every consultant you know, I think we should decide we're going to be the party of yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: All right. Let's get to the "Raw Politics" with senior political analyst David Gergen, Candy Crowley and CNN contributor John Avlon. David, how significant is this idea of forming a national grouping of TEA Party groups?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's an important evolution, Anderson, and a history of this; we'll see where it goes. But in the minds of many Americans, the TEA Party folks seem to be a fringe group. I think they're becoming -- it's becoming apparent this is more and more a nationwide protest in many ways.
I was struck by two polls recently: a Rasmussen Poll, that find that more Americans believe that the TEA Party is aligned with their values on policies than believe that President Obama is aligned with them. That's pretty interesting.
There was a Gallup poll out now that's saying about 28 percent of Americans believe that they, you know, they're basically within the TEA Party overall effort, that they agree with the -- what the TEA Party is trying to do.
So we're seeing a group that is trying to become mainstream; that's making strides in that direction. And the federation also reflects their frustration at what they feel has been a media misrepresentation over a long period of time.
COOPER: And fair enough on that, I include myself on that probably early on.
John Avlon, though, as they define themselves, do they risk perhaps losing some of that -- that growing support? As they start to endorse particular candidates, define themselves on social issues, on financial issues?
JOHN AVLON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, that is a line -- that is a line you walk. What's interesting about this federation, it is an evolutionary step. It's a combination of grassroots groups and some more foundational conservative movement groups that are all coming together.
Still loose, still really a press release federation, but you're right. As they try to get more involved and play in Republican primaries, backing conservative candidates, already you can see with this declaration they're trying to focus exclusively on fiscal issues because that's the foundation.
At its foundation, the TEA Party Movement is about --
COOPER: Right. AVLON: --anger at spending.
But the social issues are still part of their coalition. So they use language like "Constitutionally-limited government" as a way of creating a big tent for that issue without addressing it directly.
COOPER: Now, Candy, you're down in New Orleans at the Southern Republican Leadership Conference. What are you hearing? I mean, is this the year of Sarah Palin and the TEA Party Movement or is there resistance to that among -- among more establishment, you know, party candidates?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN HOST, "STATE OF THE UNION": None that I can find here. I have to tell you, you heard Newt Gingrich tonight, while they didn't talk about Sarah Palin who will be talking down here, they didn't talk about her from the podium around in this group. She still remains a very electric candidate.
The TEA Party is something that Republicans simply know that they have to deal with. And what they're trying to do is embrace the ideals of the TEA Party, embrace the passion of the TEA Party members without being linked to the excesses that are sometimes linked to the TEA Party and not necessarily true.
So, you know, it is a fine line at times, but Republicans understand that a lot of the passion in politics right now is from the people who call themselves members of the TEA Party.
COOPER: And David, how do you see Sarah Palin -- I mean, you know, she had a crowd of what, was it 10,000 yesterday with Michele Bachmann? There are a few other Republican candidates who can get that kind of a crowd.
GERGEN: Well, that's absolutely right. And she's -- she is making tons of money on the election circuit, Anderson. You know, she gets heavily paid for these speeches. She's got a bunch of them scheduled this year. I continue to believe she's not going to be a candidate but will be a force in Republican politics.
And one aspect of the TEA Party --
COOPER: Well, David, let me just jump in there. Why wouldn't she be a candidate? I mean, I know it would obviously take away some of the earning power early on, but at least by kind of staying in the mix, it sort of allows her to, you know, I mean, continue to kick up energy.
GERGEN: Well, you know, Anderson, when somebody resigns as governor before the term is -- long before the term is out, it does suggest, you know, they don't like governing all that much. And she's having a whale of a good time out there now. She's got a major voice. You know, she's sold a ton of books.
COOPER: Why mess it up with actually --
GERGEN: Well, what's the latest number on that? COOPER: No, I think say why mess it up with actually running?
GERGEN: Well, that's right and you know all the polls suggest she'd have a very hard time winning.
But what I do think -- and Candy and John can speak to this -- to what degree do the TEA Party folks and Sarah Palin pulling the other candidates to the right, the other Republicans?
COOPER: And John, you actually think she will be a candidate.
AVLON: I do think Sarah Palin will be a candidate. I think she's given herself a long runway, in effect, towards a 2012 run. It's important to understand she's no longer just the most polarizing figure in American politics. At this point some of the polls show her national approval ratings at around 26 percent.
But her approval rating among conservatives and Republicans is astronomical. How much her supporters love her at this point should not be underestimated. And it might be enough to win the nomination or at least make a nomination competitive. But certainly when you get in the general election, it becomes a serious, serious deficit.
So that's one of the tangents that the Republican Party has got to work out.
COOPER: And Candy to David's question about the impact of Sarah Palin and the TEA Party Movement on some of these other candidates, Mitt Romney, Tim Pawlenty, Mike Huckabee, I mean, is it pulling them in a direction?
CROWLEY: Yes. I mean, we've already seen this happen. With Tim Pawlenty pretty much considered to be a moderate, not always in line with some of the things that Palin says. Certainly not seen as a conservative on the -- you know, outer right wing of the party. He's out there. They need to embrace her.
On the other point that you're talking about, I talked to someone tonight, Anderson, who said I don't think she'll run for president. I don't think she wants to be king. I think she wants to be a kingmaker.
And when you can draw those sorts of crowds, 10,000 people in April before a November election, that pretty much does help make you a kingmaker.
She, meanwhile, can be raking in all this money with TV shows and books. And it's a safe place for her to be because she doesn't have to be out there doing the interviews and talking policy. She can say what she wants without being challenged --
CROWLEY: -- in most of the positions she is in and yet draw in all those forces. COOPER: John, you were talking about the TEA Party Movement and social issues. They have been now competing today against Congressman Bart Stupak for his vote, his switched vote on health care reform. I want to play something from what we heard today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you guys hear about that retirement party we had for Harry Reid last week?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We think Bart Stupak should join him. And we invited Congressman Stupak to our TEA Party rallies over the next couple days, and he has not RSVP'd to us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know, is he here? Bart, Bart.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bart, are you here, Bart? Bart? No, he's not here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So you do see on social issues like abortion, they're clearly some group at least that is bringing that up.
AVLON: Sure. I mean, you know, if Stupak had actually ultimately not voted for it, he was going back and forth, well of course, he'd be a hero to these folks. And the issue for him was the abortion provision in the health care bill.
But the overall anger at the health care bill was not about that provision. It was about stopping what those folks see as a big government -- big government scheme.
But the fissures here are significant. They're trying to take a big step back and say look, this is primarily about fiscal issues. But the danger is, you know, whenever that dose of Obama derangement syndrome sneaks in or whenever -- whenever some of the more rhetoric gets really excessive, that ends up being really a negative and alienates the independent voters that the TEA Party needs to really become a broader movement.
COOPER: Interesting. John Avlon, David Gergen and Candy Crowley thanks. I appreciate it.
Next, an update on the breaking news we brought you last night. The passenger joking his threat to blow up a plane; the joke he told led to chaos. And what were the consequences of that? Details ahead.
And three of the teens charged of bullying Phoebe Prince, the young girl who ended up taking her own life, hanging herself on a stairwell, well, their lawyers were in court today. We'll tell you what happened in court. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Coming up, a "360 Follow-Up." She was just 15 years old when she committed suicide. Prosecutors say Phoebe Prince took her life because of a gang of bullies, harassment that went on for more than three months. Six teens are charged in the case. Today new courtroom action; we'll have the details on that ahead.
But first, Randi Kaye joins us with a "360 News & Business Bulletin" -- Randi.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, President Obama and his Russian counterpart signed a major arms control agreement in the Czech Republic today. It cuts the number of nuclear weapons held by both countries by about a third. The Senate and Russia's legislature must still ratify that treaty.
Mohammed al-Modadi, a diplomat from the Persian Gulf country of Qatar, is a free man tonight, just one day after setting off a terrorism scare. Al-Modadi apparently lit a cigarette in the bathroom of a plane bound for Denver Wednesday night. He jokingly told an air marshal that he was trying to set his shoes on fire. But no explosives were found.
On the job front, the number of Americans filing for unemployment insurance for the first time jumped last week, up 18,000 claims to 460,000.
And take a look at this. These bones found in South Africa are the remains of a previously unknown species of man, nearly 2 million years old in fact. Scientists say they walked upright and could easily climb trees.
COOPER: That's cool.
KAYE: And Anderson, apparently, they were about four feet tall or so with very long arms. They think they might have been part human, maybe a little bit -- a little bit apelike, as well.
COOPER: Wow, that's cool.
COOPER: Neat to see.
All right. Coming up next, Sean Penn joins us from Haiti.
It's now the rainy season, but the earthquake survivors remain in, well, not even tent cities really. They're more like tarp cities that could be washed away.
So what's the delay in moving them? We'll talk to Sean about that.
And later Tiger's return playing the Masters and trying to put the scandal behind him. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Saving Haiti.
Well, they survived the catastrophic earthquake. Now more than a million people in Haiti face another kind of potential disaster. We've been telling you about it, really, about the threat for weeks now.
It's the rainy season. It's putting families in not even tent cities -- tarp cities is what we're talking about -- in grave danger. Torrential rains could flood makeshift shelters. We've heard about the plans and the promises to relocate those at risk and to move them to new settlements. For months they were talking about that.
We're told now that the first wave of people to be moved will start this weekend. But will the sites be ready? That's the question we wanted to know. And are the people willing to go?
We'll talk live to Sean Penn about the situation in a moment.
But first, Gary Tuchman reports tonight from Haiti.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On this golf course in the hills above Port-au-Prince, there are no more greens or fairways. Instead, there are up to 60,000 displaced people in a place that regularly floods during rainy season. And it is now rainy season.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): We don't like living here. But that's the way it is.
TUCHMAN: Any time now it could start raining for days on end. Because this camp is on a steep hillside, people could end up getting washed away.
That's why, for many weeks, there has been talk of getting these and hundreds of thousands of other people in unsafe places out of Port-au-Prince to a safer place.
And this is that safer place. It's an area called Corail (ph) where this weekend Haitian families are expected to be bussed in to start new lives.
(on camera): This area is only about 45 minutes away from downtown Port-au-Prince. But for the mostly desperately poor, displaced people who don't own vehicles, and therefore never leave their densely-populated city, this could feel like being on the moon.
(voice-over): Back at the golf course, Selena Destina knows that she and her children are not safe here, but she's never spent any time out of Port-au-Prince.
SELENA DESTINA, EARTHQUAKE SURVIVOR (through translator): I would like to go, but I don't know the area. I have to find out more about it.
TUCHMAN: Actor Sean Penn started an aide organization to help earthquake victims. His organization oversees the golf course camp. He's trying to explain to people here that it's imperative they go someplace safer.
(on camera): So basically when the rains start coming, this creek starts overflowing and it's dark. I mean, children could just drown and be carried away in the rapids.
SEAN PENN, JP HAITIAN RELIEF ORGANIZATION: Absolutely. And you see these areas here. This all becomes very slick mud. And they're right -- they were right on the edge of that, all the way up and down this ditch, because they come out of their tents to see what's happening and they could slip right down into it. And they'd be carried away in the dark at this point.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Everyone agrees people who can't go back to their homes need to be in safer places. But why is it taking so long? It's been talked about since the days after the quake, almost three months ago.
"Keeping Them Honest", we asked a member of the Haitian presidential commission for reconstruction what took so long to declare eminent domain and buy these tracts of private land.
ABY BRUN, HAITIAN PRESIDENTIAL COMMISSION ON RECONSTRUCTION: It could have been done faster. But you have to coordinate it with the U.S. Army, the Corps of Engineers, with the U.N. people, with the European (ph) community, with the Oxfam, all bunch of actors, none of them working together.
FOREMAN: But it was a bureaucratic nightmare.
BRUN: That is rough. I've been involved with the task force, you know. We presented the government in the process of trying to sort out and making some planning for it. At the beginning -- now it's rolling. It's going to go faster.
FOREMAN (voice-over): When people arrive here, they will be given tents, but ultimately, will have simple homes built for them. There will be food halls, medical care and opportunities to make money doing jobs in this new community.
But has the word gotten out? Does the U.N. really believe thousands of people will leave Port-au-Prince for a place they know nothing about?
(on camera): You expect -- you expect next week at this time that there will be thousands of people sleeping here, living here where we're standing right now?
GIOVANNI CASSANI, INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR MIGRATION: Yes. It's going to happen.
TUCHMAN: Sunday is the target day for the new beginning. Gary Tuchman, CNN, Port-au-Prince, Haiti.
COOPER: Joining us now for the "Big 360 Interview," Sean Penn, who you just saw in Gary's report.
So Sean, your camp needs to move thousands of people. Today you all performed, I guess, a test run for the first relocation of about 100 families. How did it go?
PENN: Well, in any case, this is going to be at this stage some level of organized chaos. You know, I find it bewildering that so many of the aid organizations are so overextended and that the completion of one project is -- is difficult to task.
And we've got a couple of days to get things together, but in either case, the way that we're looking at it is the way that we struggle to focus people on, which is that this is very likely going to be a catastrophe if we don't make these relocations happen.
You get people to safer ground. There's a lot of complicated mechanics to it and a lot of very skilled people, but in a circumstance where experience would be an arrogance. It's not something that anyone here has ever had to deal with in the complicated way that this disaster has played itself out in such a poverty-stricken zone.
COOPER: And I mean you go to these meetings at the U.N. I'm sure you spent many hours in these meetings. What are they like? I mean, how -- how big a problem is this bureaucracy?
PENN: Well, it's a problem of bureaucracy, and it's also a problem of breaking through the glass in front of our own face and seeing just how real this concern is.
There's -- there's always a balance between the arguments for the perfect plan versus a decisiveness. And I think that you could find me clearly on the side of decisiveness, that as long as we make all efforts to -- certainly to be very honest with the people, to let them know what their option is.
Whether it relates to aid incentives or in terms of the danger, the risk that they are at by staying where they are, that at that point it is their option, that our prerogative is to provide an area where people may very well die if the rains get heavy. They have an opportunity to live and then a lot more organization will have to go into that to get to the future.
But I -- you know, this is a disaster period where decisive action has to be taken.
And this is a country that had minimal health care to begin with. And hospitals are being allowed to close, despite all the enormous funds that internationally and in the United States that people have put forward. And I think it's time that they demand of the agencies to whom they've given the money, that they release those monies and spend them decisively. It's a six-month period. It has to be looked at as an emergency.
COOPER: Why are hospitals closing now? I mean, you have all these people who underwent amputations, who need follow-on care. Why has that happened?
PENN: Well, it's not only those that -- the follow-up care; it's also the care for the impending issues that are coming.
The reason that they're closing is because, in general, when you have these kinds of funds, the organizations themselves will contract and spend money on evaluators. That takes time. The negotiations take time.
And hospitals close while those negotiations go on before evaluations are ever made. And the hospitals run out of money after having not been able to pay staff that have been working 12- and more hour shifts for all of these months and months before the earthquake happened.
And all of these agencies are aware of it, and they let it happen. They let it close. And if people die, the blood is on their hands.
COOPER: You know, what's the difference? I mean, you used to watch this stuff on TV and see this stuff in Katrina, that's what motivated you to go down there. You saw this in Haiti; that's what motivated you to go down there. You spent weeks and weeks there, longer probably than, certainly, any other well-known person, and you're running a camp of some 60,000 people.
What is different -- I mean, what have you learned about, you know -- a lot of people look at the stuff, see it on TV -- over the last couple months, what have you learned about doing this, about how this -- how this actually works on the ground?
PENN: I think that in disaster over-caution kills people is the likely lesson. And I hope that we don't learn it factually.
COOPER: Sean Penn, I appreciate you being with us tonight, again. Thank you very much. We'll check in with you again.
Up next a look at a high school that others should follow; one where every senior is headed for college. Part of our news series, "Perry's Principles." Education contributor, Steve Perry, has the story right after this.
COOPER: Tonight, we continue our weekly series "Perry's Principles", a look at solutions to some of America's most pressing education problems. Urban Prep Academy in Illinois opened its doors in 2006 as the country's first public charter high school. Back then only 4 percent of this year's senior class read at grade level, now all 107 of them are going to college. It's a school that does not fail its students.
So how did they do it?
Here's CNN education contributor, Steve Perry, with the school's headmaster, Tim King.
STEVE PERRY, CNN EDUCATION CONTRIBUTOR: We're here at Inglewood section of Chicago, one of Chicago's roughest neighborhoods. This is Urban Prep having its first graduating class and they're going to send 70 African-American, young men to college.
It's the Holy Grail in academia. I'm going to go inside and talk to these folks. I'm excited.
Now, Mr. King, I know when you say that you send 100 percent of your kids to college, a lot of people don't believe it.
TIM KING, HEADMASTER, URBAN PREP ACADEMY: Right. Right.
PERRY: So sometimes for their purposes, you have to introduce them to the wall.
KING: They need to see some proof.
PERRY: This is a lot of proof here. Tell me what we're looking at.
KING: So on this wall, every time a student is admitted to college what we do is we take their admission letter, we copy it and we put it up on the wall in the school.
PERRY: People see results. They're going to say, 100 percent of your seniors going on to college. You must pick the kids. You can't be a public school.
KING: Yes. We get that a lot. People tell us all the time, oh, you're a selective enrollment school. That's some private school. But we're not. We're a public school. We're a charter school which means we're independently operated but we're publicly funded and we don't select our students based on any criteria.
PERRY: Mr. Beck --
TYLER BECK, STUDENT, URBAN PREP ACADEMY: Sir?
PERRY: -- you have a striped tie on. What does that mean?
BECK: Sir this means that I've been accepted into a four-year college and or university.
PERRY: Which schools have you been accepted to?
BECK: I've been accepted to 13.
Tell me about Inglewood. This here is a tough community.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You hear that, people? It's critical that we have more schools like Urban Prep.
Beck: I was born and raised in West Inglewood. And I don't know if you've been hearing over the news the past few days there have been people getting shot, you know, gang violence.
PERRY: Just outside here.
BECK: Just outside of Inglewood. And I'm like, ok, this is ridiculous. This should not be going on within our communities.
You know, I'm sitting at home, you know, with family and you hear gunshots or you hear ambulance.
PERRY: This is in your house.
BECK: This is within my community. This is within my community.
PERRY: So you're doing home work while gunshots are going off.
PERRY: And then you have to come to school the next day.
PERRY: Suited up.
PERRY: How do you make the transition through the neighborhoods?
BECK: It's one of those things where, like, if you're noticing all those things within a neighborhood and you're, like, ok, this is why I need to go to school. This is why I need to get a four-year degree because I don't want to end up like this.
Or better yet, I can do something to help change all of this.
PERRY: What is the reason that you're able to be successful in a city, in a neighborhood where other schools cannot?
KING: Well, I think that we have worked really hard to create an environment in which students feel welcomed and feel supported and feel like they are part of something special, and are ready and willing to work hard.
PERRY: This is Urban Prep. And Urban Prep is an oasis, an opportunity for children to believe in themselves and dream beyond their circumstances. Create an opportunity where there didn't seem to be one and go on to a four-year college at a rate of 100 percent. We know how to run successful schools. The question now is will we?
COOPER: Steve, what challenge did you seek out by going to Urban Prep?
PERRY: The challenge that they've overcome is the achievement gap. Very often we talk about African-American males not performing on the same level that students who are white and female and what we find -- white and/or female -- and what we find is that Urban Prep has created a school much like many other successful schools where they have an extended day. They have an extended year.
They also have higher expectations of every single child. But what's most important is they have extremely high expectations of every single faculty member. What they decide is -- they decide to hire someone based upon whether or not that person believes that every single child can go to college.
COOPER: How easy was it for the principal, for Mr. King to open the charter school?
PERRY: Oh, well actually, he tried three times. The first time he was told "no" by the city. The second time he was told "no" and he was about to walk away. But their motto is, "We Believe." So he felt that if he really believed in his motto he had to feel it.
COOPER: All right. Fascinating.
Steve Perry, appreciate it. Thanks, Steve.
PERRY: Thank you.
Next, the latest on the case of the Massachusetts high school student accused of bullying a 15-year-old classmate who killed herself.
Plus the game show shocker. One "Family Feud" contestant tells us why Ellen DeGeneres is famous. You won't believe his answer. We'll show you the tape. It's tonight's "Shot."
COOPER: Following a number of other stories to tell you about. Randi Kaye has a "360 Bulletin" -- Randi.
KAYE: Anderson, in West Virginia the search for four missing miners could resume if the air quality in the Upper Big Branch Mine continues to improve. Rescuers entered the mine this morning but were pulled out when gas levels became just too high. Officials are taking air samples every 15 minutes and say the levels are decreasing.
A "360 Follow" now. 15-year-old Phoebe Prince hanged herself last January, after months of harassment at a Massachusetts high school. Well, today lawyers entered "not guilty" pleas for three 16- year-old girls accused of bullying her. Three other teenagers have already pled "not guilty" to a long list of charges.
Tiger Woods today shot a four under par 68 in Augusta, Georgia, that's his best opening round score of Masters career and his first tournament since the car accident last Thanksgiving led to sexual revelations and a more than four-month hiatus from the game of golf.
And two Canadian brothers adopted by different families spent years trying to find each other. They both contacted a post-adoption services agency that told them -- get this -- they were neighbors living just yards apart.
KAYE: Yes, for the past two years.
COOPER: That's crazy.
KAYE: They actually lived across the street from each other. From what I understand, one of them who found out that this was the case waited for the other one to get home from work one night, walked over and introduced himself.
COOPER: That is crazy. That's incredible.
KAYE: Isn't that amazing.
COOPER: I mean unbelievable.
Ok. I don't know if you've seen the "Shot": Ellen DeGeneres and "The Family Feud." This clip is on YouTube. She was one of the topics on the game show. The family was being asked to name something that everyone knows about her. Check out one of these responses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone knows about Ellen DeGeneres.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know this one. She has a talk show.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A talk show? Show me the talk show.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The next thing that everyone knows about Ellen DeGeneres?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She loves to dance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Loves to dance. She loves to dance. A chance now to sweep the board. One answer remains. Give it to me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say that she doesn't like our country very well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doesn't like the country. (END VIDEO CLIP)
KAYE: Doesn't like our country?
COOPER: Why would this guy say that she doesn't like America? It's so bizarre. What I find odder is the audience is like, oh, yes -- no.
KAYE: Cheering him on with that answer. What does that even mean?
COOPER: She doesn't like our country? Who is this guy? Where does he get this idea? She's a very nice person.
KAYE: Yes. Clearly confused.
COOPER: Hey, That's it for 360. Thanks for watching.
"LARRY KING" starts now.