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THE SITUATION ROOM

Oil Claims Overseer Visits Gulf; Why President Obama Needs to be in Canada

Aired June 25, 2010 - 5:00 p.m.   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Great Rick, happening now a new wild card in the Gulf oil disaster. And cleanup and recovery crews are planning for the worst. Also, senators with a secret. Lawmakers are anonymously blocking dozens of administration nominees. Now there is a new move to change the rules and end the mystery.

And he is key to the U.S. soccer team's extraordinary win in the World Cup. Now on the eve of the next critical match, we're going to have a rare interview with the team's goalkeeper Tim Howard. Wolf Blitzer is on assignment. I'm Suzanne Malveaux and you're in "The Situation Room."

A new weather warning has residents of the oil stricken Gulf Coast on edge. There is now an 80 percent chance now of tropical depression in the western Caribbean in the next two days. Now that could mean heavy rain or even worse in the Gulf of Mexico starting next week.

The impact on the disaster zone will depend on which way the winds blow. It could push the oil back out to sea or wash more crude on to the coast. Vice President Joe Biden now plans to travel to the region Tuesday to get a first-hand look at the oil relief efforts.

And BP says it is closer to pinpointing the location of its first relief well in relation to the source of the gushing oil. Now that is key to connecting the two wells in hopes of permanently stopping the spill.

Now the man who is overseeing BP's $20 billion claims fund is meeting with Gulf Coast residents today. The oil giant now reports that almost 74,000 claims have been filed and more than 39,000 payments have been made totaling almost $126 million.

Our CNN's Chris Lawrence, he's following Ken Feinberg's talks in Louisiana and Chris, obviously a lot of anxious people. They want to know what can BP pay them? What is Ken Feinberg telling them?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Suzanne, a major development today that potentially could affect tens of thousands of people who do support work in support of the jobs being done on those oil rigs. We've now confirmed they will definitely be covered under the $200 billion fund that BP set up to pay damages. BP initially had indicated they might not agree to do this because they did not impose this moratorium on drilling. That was President Obama and his administration. But what this means is now, you don't just have to be say a fisherman whose waters are now polluted. You could run a supply boat that would be taking tools out to those rigs if the drilling was still we going on. Will you be handling any claims at all for people whose businesses have been affected by the moratorium?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KENNETH FEINBERG, OIL CLAIMS ADMINISTRATOR: Yes. I now have discovered, I didn't realize this until yesterday, but the moratorium claims will fall under my jurisdiction.

LAWRENCE: That's a huge development. We didn't know that before.

FEINBERG: I didn't either. I just learned yesterday that the administration and BP have agreed that the moratorium claims will fall under my jurisdiction.

LAWRENCE: So again, all of those support workers who had been very, very upset with this moratorium now may have some recourse in going to this $200 billion fund to get some relief for their damages as well.

MALVEAUX: Chris, we know that was certainly a point of negotiation and debate between the White House and BP, what was going to happen because of that moratorium and the complaints that people were going to have. When you talk to the folks down there, are there any complaints about how this claims process is being carried out, how it's being played out now? Is it too soon to tell?

LAWRENCE: No, two complaints really jump out more than others. One, people feel like they have to keep going back over and over again refile a paperwork even though they can document lost wages all the way through the end of the summer already.

The second thing is that the BP adjustors they've been dealing with just don't understand enough about their business -- fishing, running a charter boat operation, so they miss certain expenses and people feel they are not being paid what they're owed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, I have immaculate records but it seems for not matter. BP just decides that, you know, and then you have to wonder --

LAWRENCE: What do you mean?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I guess they decide what you're going to get and that's not fair. They say if you don't agree you can come back and file another claim. That's obviously Assanine. I just filed a claim. Why don't you pay me what you owe me?

LAWRENCE: It sounds like BP is going to pay for the last month and then you file another claim and get the next month.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the problem. I don't need them to treat me like I'm a teenage other than allowance.

LAWRENCE: Some folks have complained to us they are forced to file their claims every single month. They feel they are being treated like children handed an allowance.

FEINBERG: I am sympathetic to that complaint. Senator Landrieu suggested to me to consider the idea of an emergency lump sum payment maybe over three to six months rather than one month and I think that I'll give that serious consideration. I'm inclined to do it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE: All right. That sounds very good. It's something we're going to have to keep our eye on to make sure that is actually implemented would sure like to give their paperwork over and be done with it for three to six months and then come back not every 30 days -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Chris, it sounds like Ken Feinberg is being responsive. It's good to see him there with the people actually addressing some of those issues. Thanks again, Chris.

LAWRENCE: You got a great response out there today I have to say.

MALVEAUX: OK, well, President Obama is in Canada right now for a series of high stakes economic meetings with other world leaders. As the gulf oil disaster plays out, some are wondering if it's a bad time for the president to be out of the country even if he's not that far away.

Our White House correspondent Dan Lothian is with President Obama in Toronto. These are some important summits for the president to attend. Obviously the big question, Dan, you're tackling is whether or not it's worth it. Whether or not these kinds of meetings are effective for the American people. What can you tell them?

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. That's a question a lot of people are asking and these meetings at the G-8 today Playing out at a countryside resort about a two and a half hour drive away from Toronto where I am standing.

The big focus is making sure the global economic recovery is sustained and President Obama believes that one way to do that is ensure federal spending continues, that stimulus but some world leaders are pushing back over concern for their bulging deficits. The talks are continuing and these working sessions and bilateral meetings. All very expensive but White House aides say it's worth it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN (voice-over): In the "Austin Powers" movies Dr. Evil learns money isn't what it used to be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One billion ka jillon -- LOTHIAN: It's that kind of money at least a billion dollars that is projected to be the price tag for the G-8, G-20 summits in Canada. Are the meetings worth it?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: The G-20 meeting is expensive, but has already paid for itself.

LOTHIAN: David Gergen who worked for five former presidents and has taken part in past summits says the return on a billion dollars came when China announced it would strengthen its currency.

GERGEN: China only announced it was going to revalue its currency upward because the G-20 was going to occur.

LOTHIAN: That move would help boost Chinese buying power for American goods even if imports from there might cost more. The summits also offer something money can't buy. Gergen says they helped polish President Ronald Reagan's global cowboy image.

GERGEN: Made an enormously positive impression and thereafter President Reagan had gained much more respect from other heads of state, but as well as from the public around the world.

DAN PRICE, FORMER ADVISER TO PRESIDENT BUSH: Face to face there is a greater realization that we are all in this together and you can't replicate that by video conference.

LOTHIAN: Dan Price was an adviser to George W. Bush and the administration's point man at the Summits. Is it more than just a photo op, more than just these world leaders getting together to meet face to face and shake hands?

PRICE: They're not meeting for a photo op. They gather to provide political impetus to regulatory reform.

LOTHIAN: Price says during the global financial meltdown in the fall of 2008 the summits helped build confidence and unity.

PRICE: President Bush decided that I would be important to gather leaders to not only agree on principles for financial reform but, also to chart the course for reform of international financial institutions.

LOTHIAN: Now back to that billion dollar question. What would you do with all of that cash?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd go to Disney World.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Build houses for homeless people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN: Now, on Saturday President Obama will take part in a half dozen bilateral meetings including with the leaders of the United Kingdom and Canada and then he wraps up Sunday evening with a press conference. MALVEAUX: Dan, I know you'll be very busy over the next couple days but obviously lawmakers hammered out this financial regulatory reform. A very big development obviously for the Obama administration. Is that going to be helpful when he meets with the world leaders to say, look, we've got tougher regulations on Wall Street?

LOTHIAN: It really is because, you know, the president has been pushing this notion that on a global scale there needs to be financial reform and so the president can sit down with these leaders and say here is the evidence.

I've been getting tough on Wall Street. Now you need to do the same thing to prevent another global catastrophe like we had beginning two years ago from occurring again.

MALVEAUX: All right. Thanks, Dan. Have a great weekend.

Well, you could say that the hundred men and women in the U.S. Senate have a super power. They can hide their identity but there is a new push to end the secrecy and unblock dozens of Obama administration nominations.

There's also mystery surrounding those under water plumes in the gulf. A scientist helps us understand why they're so hard to find and so hard to fight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Jack Cafferty is here with "The Cafferty File." Good to see you again.

JACK CAFFERTY: Well, it's better than a Friday in "The Situation Room" I ask you?

MALVEAUX: Nothing.

CAFFERTY: That's the right answer. Elena Kagan's confirmation hearings to be the nation's next Supreme Court justice begin on Monday, but the number of people who think she belongs on the high court is declining. A new CNN opinion research corporation poll shows 44 percent of Americans want the Senate to confirm Kagan, that's down 10 points since May.

Thirty nine percent oppose Kagan's confirmation up three points and 17 percent say they're not sure or undecided up from 11 percent in May. It's not surprising I suppose since people probably don't know a whole lot about her. Opinion on Kagan has changed the most among women and Democrats.

These are people who initially supported her nomination because Kagan is a woman or because Mr. Obama chose her. But now that they're getting some information on her views they're not so sure. It'll be interesting to see how much information the Senators can get out of Kagan with law makers complaining in recent years about how difficult it is to get substantive answers out of Supreme Court nominees.

Fifteen years ago, Kagan herself complained about Senate confirmation hearings calling them a hollow charade and a ritual dance. One issue that will likely dominate her hearings is Kagan's banning of military recruiters from Harvard law school due to the pentagon's don't ask don't tell policy and another hot topic could be Kagan's lack of judicial experience. She has none.

Meanwhile, a group of nearly 900 orthodox rabbis are opposing Kagan's nomination. They say she's not kosher and unfit to serve on the high court. The rabbis take issue with Kagan's views on homosexuality and abortion.

Here's the question. Why has support been declining for Elena Kagan to be the next Supreme Court justice? Go to cnn.com/cafferty file and post a comment on my blog. Look forward to those hearings next week. Hope they can be something to spice up the summer doldrums a little bit.

MALVEAUX: Absolutely, Jack. We'll see how that goes. Looking forward to seeing those hearings.

Imagine someone blocking you from getting a job and you don't know who or why. Now, that is what's happening here in Washington right now and the culprits are members of the U.S. Senate who have the power to put secret holds on nominations.

Well, that could soon change. Our senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash has been looking into this. I guess this is something that's kind of hard for people to understand that this could still happen but it happens here in Washington quite frequently.

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Sure does. Actually the practice of putting a nomination on hold started back before planes, trains, and automobiles. But senators needed time back then to get back to Washington in order to decide.

In modern times though senators have used this power to block a nominee so much and do it anonymously there is a huge backlog and in many cases it's a mystery why they're waiting.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH (voice-over): Winslow Lorenzo Sergeant, nominee for the small business administration, held up for nine months and counting. Rafael Bores Under Secretary for Homeland Security nominee blocked for eight months now. Who's holding up these and some 60 other Obama nominees? Who knows? They're victims of secret Senate holds.

SENATOR CLAIRE MCCASKILL, (D) MISSOURI: For a senator to be able to anonymously hold someone's nomination from consideration that seems un-American to. It's not what our democracy is about. If you want to hold someone and you're in the United States senate you ought to be big enough to own it.

BASH: Senator Claire McCaskill wants to change Senate rules and eliminate secret holds and now has enough support to do that. Secret holds are often used as leverage for an unrelated beef nothing to do with the nominee. We found reluctance to give up the secret weapon even from senators who have been on the other end.

SENATOR LAMAR ALEXANDER, (R) TENNESSEE: When I was nominated for the U.S. secretary of education, Senator held me up for three months in a secret hold so this is nothing new.

BASH: Can I ask you a quick question on your way in? Some told us slowing things with secret holds isn't the problem. Moving too fast is.

SENATOR JIM DEMINT, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: Over 90 percent of the bills in the Senate and the nominees pass with no debate and no vote. And that's much more of a problem.

BASH: This isn't the first attempt at stopping secret holds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bill as amended is passed.

BASH: An ethics law passed four years ago requires senators to come forward after holding up a nominee for six days, but it's routinely ignored. Senators pass a law that they say that they are going to abide by and they don't.

MCCASKILL: Correct.

BASH: So how do senators expect the average American to abide by the laws that you all pass?

MCCASKILL: Well, what they have said is we're going to pass a law and try to make it look good, but we've got a loophole that we can use and we're going to use it.

BASH: Experts are skeptical this time will be different.

MCCASKILL: At the margins we might see improvement but it is very hard to see how do you get senators to give up this practice they really use to their advantage?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: And the thing to keep in mind is if and when the Senate does formally vote to change the rules, senators would still be able to hold up a presidential nominee for an unlimited amount of time.

They just won't be able to block nominees anonymously. Senators McCaskill and others who are pushing for this change say it would at least bring transparency and accountability to a long-time shadowy tradition that is secret senate holds.

MALVEAUX: I hear it happens a lot with the judges, the nominations for judges. Is it any more prevalent now, Dana, than say in past administrations? Is it worse off now?

BASH: It has been. As of Monday, there were 138 nominees on hold in the Obama administration. That dwarfs what we saw for example this time in the Bush administration. There was some wheeling and dealing this week and in a snap 60 nominees plus were just approved by voice vote. So when they want to do it they can do it.

MALVEAUX: There seems to be a lot of pressure to make them more transparent now.

BASH: We'll see what happens. A lot of skepticism.

MALVEAUX: Thanks.

Well, they are crunchy and sweet but if they have an odd taste dump out the bowl. Millions of boxes of popular children's cereals are being recalled.

And on the anniversary of Michael Jackson's death, family and fans pay respect but the legal wrangling is far from over.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Fredricka Whitfield is monitoring the other top stories coming into "The Situation Room" right now. What are you working on?

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello everyone. It took until the wee hours but congressional negotiators came away with a final compromise. Wall Street reform bill this morning. The grueling 20-hour session ended with a standing ovation.

The bill seeks to strengthen consumer protection, shine light on complex financial projects, namely derivatives, and create a new process for taking down failing big banks.

And the Senate has confirmed John Pistol as the head of the Transportation Security Administration. Pistol's nomination was approved by unanimous consent ending a lengthy search process. Pistol has served as deputy FBI director since October, 2004. He is President Obama's third nominee to the TSA post. Two previous contenders withdrew their nominations.

Kellogg's is issuing a voluntary recall of millions of boxes of cereal. It's recalling apple jacks, corn pops, fruit loops, and honey smacks because it detected a substance in the package liner that is causing a waxy smell and taste. Kellogg's says consumers should not eat them and may contact the company for replacement coupons.

And Michael Jackson's father Joe is expected to file a wrongful death suit against Dr. Conrad Murray, who was charged with involuntary manslaughter in the pop singer's death after Jackson died of an overdose. It was one year ago today the entertainer Michael Jackson died. His family and fans are marking the anniversary and in many ways they're playing his music, looking at videos, including this ever so popular one "Thriller."

Yes, we've talked before about the moves and how everybody including you and me know all the moves to the song but we're going to spare everyone. I'm not going to dance or sing today. MALVEAUX: Come on, Fred. I dare you. I'll pay you dinner. I think America has seen enough.

WHITFIELD: They've seen enough.

MALVEAUX: That was an amazing time though. I remember this very well, very clearly. We had our whole gym class. I think we might have had middle school or high school.

WHITFIELD: Right.

MALVEAUX: We learned the whole thing. We had hundreds of students doing this all at the same time. I think they do this in a prison in Asia, too. But the prisoners do this.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

MALVEAUX: We had our whole gym class doing this. It was just an incredible time, the video, too. This is when they first came out with these epic videos. You wonder whatever happened to the girlfriend. You know?

WHITFIELD: I know. I don't know what happened to her but, you know, a lot of, I guess, videos that would soon follow the release of this one, everyone tried to match it by having clubs and parties and a big release of video but nothing matched "Thriller."

MALVEAUX: Absolutely not. Thanks. We have to leave it there.

For all the shocking things that we've seen in the oil disaster what we can't see may wind up being, doing a lot more damage. Why there is so much mystery surrounding under water oil plumes.

And they usually rescue raccoons and deer but now wildlife saving volunteers are looking for birds to protect.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: There are plenty of eye-popping statistics about the oil disaster zone, but this one really stands out. More than 65,000 pounds of tar balls and oily material were collected in just one Florida county above the surface. Now, below there is uncertainty about what is happening with those oil plumes. Our Mary Snow has more on that and is it a mystery or do we have a better sense of what we are dealing with here?

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're getting a better sense because a government report came out this week confirming that under water plumes of oil in the gulf are coming from BP's well. But what's unclear is their size and scope. When we found out from one scientist that it's a constant chase for an elusive target.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW (voice-over): Unlike the globs of oil visible in the gulf, it's oil that can't be seen that's keeping Larry Mayer up at night. Mayer is a scientist at the University of New Hampshire, which partners with NOAA and he spends his waking hours trying to find under water plumes of oil in the gulf.

(on camera): Is it almost like chasing a ghost?

LARRY MAYER, UNIVERSITY OF NEW HAMPSHIRE: Yes, it is. It's a moving target. We're sitting 4,000 feet above this phantom plume and we have no idea where it is and we're trying to sample it by sending a bucket in essence over the side and bringing it back.

SNOW: That bucket is a sophisticated one that collects water samples. Mayer relied on it along with acoustic technology and sonars during a recent research trip to the gulf. At one point, Mayer thought he found what he was looking for, a concentration of oil below the surface less than a half mile wide.

MAYER: Came back 30 hours later and it wasn't there. That doesn't mean it wasn't there originally. It was. It's either moved or dissipated. Something has happened.

SNOW: And there lies the difficulty for scientists like Mayer. Besides chasing a moving target Mayer says the effects of dispersants being used to break up the oil are unknown. He doesn't envision thick globs of oil but tiny particles dispersed.

MAYER: It keeps me up at night because it's terribly worrisome to think of the implications and ramifications.

SNOW: One thing he is working on is creating 3-d images of what the plumes would look like. He took us to his lab to show us how scientists are using this kind of data. Take these 3-d images of whales. They were tagged and data was transformed to look like this. Then there is this image from the waters off California.

MAYER: This is methane gas coming up almost a mile high off Mendocino, California.

SNOW: But Mayer says it's more difficult to see oil. He is currently working to visualize the oil lurking under the surface. He is taking data and mapping it. Despite the uncertainties there is one thing he is sure of. The answers won't come quickly.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: Larry Mayer says it could be months before there are definitive answers about underwater oil plumes. The big concern of course about them is their effect on oxygen levels in the gulf and what it will mean for marine life.

MALVEAUX: Thank you, Mary.

Every day we see grim examples of how the oil spill is endangering birds and other creatures. But there may be a long-term benefit for wildlife. Our CNN's Tom Foreman joins us to explain.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey Suzanne, when you travel the gulf coast these days one thing you hear from so many people is this deep seeded frustration that they can't do anything to help the wildlife in the midst of the spill which is certainly being hurt. But some people have redirected that frustration to say what can we do for wildlife where we are? And that is producing results.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN: For every living creature at the Florida Wild Mammal Association the oil catastrophe has changed the world. And the woman in charge, Chris Beatty, says oddly it's for the better.

CHRIS BEATTY, FLORIDA WILD MAMMAL ASSN.: We received over a thousand e-mails in the last four weeks and the phone just rings off the hook with all sorts of questions from volunteers.

FOREMAN: Because they want to help the wildlife of this state.

BEATTY: Yes, they do. If there is -- this is their home, their community, their environment.

FOREMAN: The center takes in a thousand animals a year, mostly injured or orphaned, most to be treated and released. Sea gulls, possums, raccoons.

BEATTY: Here we go. Oh, good girl. It's baby season if you couldn't tell.

FOREMAN: Dozens of deer like this fawn whose mother was hit by a car and flocks of little birds.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And every 15 minutes feed them with a syringe. Unless they're really little and then it's every ten minutes.

FOREMAN: But lately they've also been taking in lots of donations from people intent on building this place up in case the oil keeps coming. One recent Saturday the center was given almost $19,000 in cash, supplies, and free labor from 80 volunteers, including Clutch Sims.

CLUTCH SIMS: Can't depend a whole lot on our government so we got to do it ourselves, take care of our own business.

FOREMAN: So they are rebuilding pelican pens, hawk and owl enclosures, fox habitats. They don't know if they'll get any oiled animals but --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We feel it's better to be prepared than to wait until it actually happens.

FOREMAN: Close by the U.S. fish and wildlife service is preparing too, surveying the eastern gulf coast ahead of the advancing oil.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're trying to get real specific information on wildlife. We're comparing the situation now with what might occur.

FOREMAN: So at least you know what you're up against if that happens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's correct.

FOREMAN: Fishing, hunting, eco tourism. Wildlife of Florida is really an important part of what makes the state attractive to people.

BEATTY: I think it's beyond that. The whole panhandle is a rural area. That's what our livelihoods depend on. Without wildlife we'd be very damaged.

FOREMAN: As it is, the tragedy is bringing attention that could help Florida's wildlife for many years.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN: They don't know at the center if they're going to be able to do anything for any oiled animals should they show up in their area because they don't know if they'll be permitted to. That is a frustration you hear from many people but they do know if they can get ready for it and help animals overall the efforts of these volunteers will go to good.

MALVEAUX: Thanks, Tom.

So much for the old adage that lightning doesn't strike twice. We'll show you where it did.

She's young enough to play with toys but she can't get her name off the no fly list.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Fredricka Whitfield is monitoring the other top stories that are coming in right now to THE SITUATION ROOM. Fred, what are you working on?

WHITFIELD: Hello again Suzanne. Hello, everyone. Well, the European Space Agency says conditions favorable to light may have once existed all over Mars. The agency says its Mars express and NASA's Mars reconnaissance orbiter have discovered minerals in the northern lowlands that indicate water once flowed there. Until now evidence of the presence of liquid water had been found only in the southern hemisphere.

And what are the odds? In March lightning started a fire in an apartment complex in Plain Township, Ohio. Families were moved to a newer building four miles away. Yesterday fire broke out in that building. Plain Township's fire chief says he is sure it was caused by lightning. What's more, both buildings were called building "b."

Alissa Thomas's parents are trying to figure out why their 6- year-old is on the government's no fly list. They discovered it while flying from Cleveland to Minneapolis and when they got home they tried to have it reversed but the government says nothing will be changed. Alissa is not worried saying her biggest concerns are her Barbies, magic mirror, and of course jumping on the bed. All the things that 6-year-olds are supposed to be worried about.

MALVEAUX: Certainly not being on the no fly list. Okay. Thank you, Fred.

WHITFIELD: That's right.

MALVEAUX: Health care reform, check. Financial reform, check. President Obama makes headway on campaign promises. Strategy session is coming up.

And he could have had the big box but he's just scraping by instead. What if Apple's third founder hadn't sold out?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: Hours after Apple rolled out its latest iPhone, it was answering complaints that holding the phone by its edges disrupts reception. Now, the iPhone 4 has sold by the thousands just in a day. But that might irk one Nevada man who let go of his early stake in Apple. Our CNN's Dan Simon joins me. Dan has a story to tell us about what happened to the man who let go of that stock.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RON WAYNE, THIRD APPLE FOUNDER: These are from Germany.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: His net worth is mostly tied up in his coin and stamp collection.

WAYNE: I play penny machines, mostly poker machines.

SIMON: A few days a week he drives himself to a casino hoping one day he'll hit the Jackpot. He's 76, retired, and lives in this modest home outside of Las Vegas. He gets by off his monthly social security check.

WAYNE: I'll put it real simple. I've never been rich.

SIMON: A lot of people face similar challenges except how many can honestly say they could have been a billionaire more than 20 times over? If only he could have seen it. You know that when people hear your story they say to themselves, my gosh. $22 billion. He could have had it.

WAYNE: What can I say? I mean, you make a decision based upon your understanding of the circumstances. And you live with it. That's the best you can do. There is nothing you can do about yesterday.

SIMON: Ron Wayne is the third founder of Apple. He designed the company's first logo and the first operating manual. With these signatures right here, Apple Computer was formed.

WAYNE: Yes.

SIMON: This 1976 legal agreement shows his name alongside the well known founders Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs. Wayne, an engineer by trade, had befriended Jobs who he says wanted his help in forming the company.

This is the contract right here.

WAYNE: Yes.

SIMON: It says Ron Wayne gets 10 percent of the business.

WAYNE: Mm-hmm.

SIMON: And you were happy with that.

WAYNE: Of course. I had no investment in it. It was a fascinating thing.

SIMON: But only 11 days after Apple came into existence Wayne had second thoughts.

WAYNE: I felt very honestly that the way these guys were going they were going to bull doze their way through anything to make this company succeed but it was going to be a very rough ride and if I wasn't careful I'd wind up the richest man in the cemetery.

SIMON: He says he was worried about being on the hook for debts the company would occur. At the time Wayne's 10 percent stake netted him just $800.

WAYNE: As far as I was concerned it was found money and I didn't want to get in anybody's way and why would I possibly do that anyhow?

SIMON: At the time you were pleased to take it.

WAYNE: Absolutely.

SIMON: Throughout the years Wayne has held various jobs as an engineer. He has never had a particular fascination with computers. How many Apple products have you bought over the years?

WAYNE: In round numbers? About as round a number as you can get. I've never owned an Apple product.

SIMON: Wayne says he's not jealous of Steve Jobs or Apple's success and says it's useless to waste time wondering what if. He last spoke to Jobs ten years ago.

WAYNE: I don't think anybody could have imagined the success that Apple did become but I knew that it would be a successful enterprise because the people who were driving it were skilled and capable and dynamic and focused.

SIMON: Wayne is hoping to finally cash in on his Apple connection with a forthcoming book, the title "Adventures of an Apple Founder."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIMON: As for Ron Wayne never owning an Apple product the truth is he says he never had a need for computers but he just got one. You might ask what kind. Turns out he got a Dell. He is a PC loyalist. Back you to.

MALVEAUX: I guess he's not getting the iPhone 4. All right. Dan, thank you.

We are tracking a weather system that could cause more misery along the gulf coast and disaster officials say they don't have a plan for it. We'll talk to the goalkeeper of the U.S. soccer team, Tim Howard, just hours before a do or die game for the world cup.

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MALVEAUX: Health reform is in the can. Wall Street reform is on its way back to the house and Senate for approval. President Obama is checking two of his major campaign promises off the list. Well, who gets the credit for all this? Joining me for is Republican strategist Ed Rollins and CNN senior political analyst Gloria Borger and thank you for joining us here. Obviously, this is 2 of 3 items that he said that he was going the push through, and the third one being energy policy. It looks like they will at least use the oil spill disaster to push that forward in the fall. How do you think that he is holding up here, the record here? Does it help the Democrats?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, if you look at the bucket list you know of all of the things that he wants to do, he has had a long list. He started out with the stimulus package, you know. He's maybe going to get some form of energy reform and health care, and et cetera, but the problem that Barack Obama has is that the economy however and jobs is still a huge problem for him. And so the American public, a, is not giving him a lot of credit for all of these things, and b, they are not sure they like all of the things he has passed and c, the Republican narrative that he is a big spending big government Democrat is beginning to stick. So he passes these things, but his public approval rating is going in the different direction.

MALVEAUX: Ed, what do you think about this? because on the one hand the Democrats can argue, we have the to-do party and we have all of the things on the list and check them off and maybe it is a big target for the Republicans to go after in the midterm election.

ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I'm sorry, but they certainly can argue that this is what they promised to do. I am not sure it is going to turn around any of the targeted seats, and it is not going to make Harry Reid's race any easier in Nevada. I think that at the end of the day, the president deserves a lot of credit and I hope that some of the Democrat supporters would give it to him, but he has two wars going on. He's got an economy struggling. He still has high unemployment. He is still spending a lot of money. These are complicated bills both with the health care and the this bill that we won't have any idea what they fully do until the lawyers sort of unravel it, and we see whether it is good for the economy or bad for the economy and that is the test. But this election, it is going to be about leadership and right today, the president is not dropping as dramatically as Gloria said. Historically, since 1910, if the president's numbers drop below 50 percent, he is going to have modern polling is different that earlier stuff but if his numbers drop below 50 percent, which they are, it is a bad day for the party.

BORGER: Well, the voters say Ed, and I don't know if you agree, but they want change, but they don't want it all at the same time. There is this sense among the voters a little anxiety not only in the economy, but, oh, my god, we have done all of the big things all at once, and I'm not sure I understand everything that we have done.

MALVEAUX: And Gloria, talk to us about the numbers, too, because in spite of the facts that he is getting the big things done, what are the numbers looking like, because the approval ratings have dipped.

BORGER: Well, they have dipped and in the recent "Wall Street Journal" poll they have dipped below 50 percent, but he has been essentially at 50 percent for the last six to nine months, and he is not getting credit, and his numbers are not going up, but they are going in the wrong direction for him, and so, you'd think that with somebody who had achieved so much, the public would say, yeah, that is what he promised and look he's going down the list and checking it twice, but that is not happening.

MALVEAUX: Ed, is there anything that the president can say, that hey, my life has dramatically changed because of the president's policies whether it is the health care reform and the cost or anything tangible to hold on to?

ROLLINS: Well, there are 31 million people who have health insurance who didn't in the beginning of the administration, but nobody understands what is going to happen on the other side of this. I would argue at this point in time, this maybe good stuff and maybe not, and they are so big and so complicated and the bill that was passed last night in the middle of the night is a 2,000-page bill and the health care bill is over 1500 pages. People won't know the full ramifications of this, and I think that is part of the process that people haven't particularly liked. I keep saying that this is not going to be a good year for Democrats, and I think that I will be proved out come November.

MALVEAUX: Gloria, is part of the president's problem, he is reaching too high. Does he need to actually have some sort of achievables like small nuggets that people can hold on to and say, hey, you did a great job handling this?

BORGER: Well, if you talk to the white house, they would argue, that is exactly what he has done, except that the problems are so large that he has had to deal with large problems. He might like to go back to Bill Clinton and the school uniforms for kids and all of the rest, except he has an economic calamity on his hands and the oil spill and two wars. So, you need big solutions for these kinds of big problems.

MALVEAUX: All right. Thank you. Gloria and Ed, appreciate the time. All right.

Jack Cafferty is up next and the article that got General Stanley McChrystal fired. Were some of the quotes supposed to be off of the record?

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MALVEAUX: Jack joining us again with the Cafferty file. Hey, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Hello, Suzanne. The question this hour is why has support been declining for Elena Kagan to be the next Supreme Court justice?

Mark writes from New Jersey, "The support has been declining for the same reasons that there was opposition to the health care bill and why it wound up so toothless. For the same reason there is any question that BP was massively negligent in the gulf oil disaster or for that matter why Sarah Palin is qualified to be anything but a greedy housewife. Unrelenting and hugely pundit campaigns of misinformation orchestrated talking points and weapons of mass destruction."

Ken says, "People are learning more and more about her. As they find out she is one to speaks her mind and it's not always what they want to hear, then they begin not to like her. Once people find out you don't agree with their every position, they begin to think less of you. There's also the fact that she is President Obama's choice, and no is the agreed upon response to anything he wants."

Steve in Virginia Beach, "I don't know, but I hope it is because we have finally woken up to the importance of learning something about people before supporting them in positions of public trust."

James in Florida, "The dilemma of the Supreme Court nomination is easy solved by bringing the court, itself into the modern era. Nine justices were probably fine in 1820, but this is 2010 and the Congress has the power to expand the number of justices, and" -- that is not what we are talking about. I won't finish that.

Al in New Jersey writes, "The public is losing faith in the Obama administration primarily because of the deepwater horizon catastrophe and the failure to help Americans along the gulf coast. Kagan's chief credential is administration support. So as the administration goes, so goes public support for Kagan." A bit of a reach but whatever. Her confirmation hearings, by the way, get under way on Monday.

If you want to read more on this, you will find a bunch of e- mails on my blog CNN.com/Caffertyfile. Back to you Ms. Malveaux.

MALVEAUX: Okay. Mr. Cafferty, we will keep a close eye on you.

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