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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Another Syrian Boy Allegedly Tortured; Sarah Palin's Emails Released; Duct Tape at Issue in Casey Anthony Trial; WikiWars: the Mission of Julian Assange; Scavengers to Scholars
Aired June 10, 2011 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Good evening, everyone.
Tonight "Keeping Them Honest". A regime that doesn't just torture and murder its own people doesn't just shoot them down in the streets. Tonight a regime that continues to arrest its children, torturing them and murdering them. The regime of Bashar Al Assad in Syria.
They try to hide their crimes by keeping reporters out, but the videos continue to emerge. This is what Syrian soldiers do to helpless handcuffed prisoners.
This is what Syrian soldiers do to a helpless elderly man.
This is what the regime does to its people who are protesting. A video from today from a Damascus suburb, right now Syrian soldiers and government thugs are on the brink of exacting bloody retribution on an entire city. And their leader, Bashar Al Assad is according to the prime minister of neighboring Turkey taking all of this, in his words, very lightly.
So tonight for whatever it's worth and for whoever can do something about it, we want to show you the truth of what is happening in Syria. The pictures are hard to look at, I know, but people are risking their lives to take these images. They are dying so that you and I may know the truth.
This is exclusive video, new video of a recent protest. A peaceful protest in northern Syria, photographed by a dissident who managed to escape to Turkey, thousands of unarmed men, and then gunfire, chaos, and carnage.
The massacre neither the first nor the last. They appear to be escalating. In fact, today not far from where this happened reports of helicopter gunships firing on protesters.
Now, we can't independently confirm this, but you can clearly hear machine gun fire coming from the helicopter and reaction from someone on the ground.
And not far from there, the Syrian military has launched an operation on the border city of Jisr al Shughour (ph). The regime has been promising punishment on the city after 120 security forces were killed there several days ago, it says, by armed thugs. Refugees refute that. Saying some of the troops rebelled after refusing to fire on civilians.
In any case, Syrian forces have been marching toward the town, reported burning fields and firing on anything and anyone in their path. We have no video of it yet, because the Syrian government is keeping the media out.
But we do have new video tonight of the swelling refugee camps over the Turkish border. That's what you're looking at right now. And these unfortunate Syrians may in fact be the lucky ones. A western correspondent near the camp says refugees are telling her that the Syrian regime tried to stop them from leaving, holding its own people captive and worse, much worse.
This is the body of Tamir Al Sahari (ph), returned to his family after a month in captivity. Like all amateur video, we can't independently verify it, in part because Syria won't allow us in. Tamir's body is missing an eye and several teeth, we're told. His family says his leg and neck was broken. He was kneecapped as well, shot not to kill but to inflict excruciating pain. Tamir was just 15 years old.
He was reportedly arrested on the same rally attended by Hamza Al Khateeb. This is Hamza's body. Hamza showed signs of beatings and gunshot -- and gunshot wounds, cigarette burns over his body and his penis was cut off. Hamza was only 13 years old.
He and Tamir and others taken tortured, murdered, and then weeks later returned to their families, not so parents can mourn and bury them, but as a tool of terror, as a warning to others. "Tow the line, or we'll take your kids."
Days after Hamza was returned, signs that in that respect, terror works. His father and uncle appeared on Syrian state TV, full of praise for the dictator Bashar Al Assad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): What can I say? Best president ever. Thank God he gave us everything we've ever asked for. The first thing is the president promised us reforms. And God willing, they will come soon, tomorrow or the day after.
I mean, these reforms are for the citizens. And they have been well received. And we were very happy with the president. The president is very close to the people. And he has offered them a lot. And he has said, God willing, he will give even more.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Later on, a family member, who we are not naming, told us that the family was threatened to make those statements. That's what terror does.
It no longer works, though, against everyone all the time. This is a funeral march for Tamir. Hundreds taking part, just as thousands of others do all across Syria, men, women, and children. It's hard to watch, and no wonder. Who will be the next person to fall, who will be the next child taken?
This week Amnesty International came out with the chilling testimony of a former member of Syria's elite Republican guard. He and his unit got the orders on April 23rd to confront a violent gang. What they found he says is something else, not a violent gang, but around 2,000 unarmed protesters including women and children chanting "peaceful, peaceful". Those were the words the protesters were speaking.
What he then witnessed he says was a massacre. He could not stop it and he could not take part. He and five others threw down their weapons, he says. He is now on the run facing a death sentence for desertion.
But he is the exception. As we said at the top, the people of Jisr Al Shughour now wait for word on their town's fate at the hands of Syrian forces. The refugees continue to pour across.
Almost 30 years ago, the dictator Bashar Al Assad's father, Hafez Al Assad faced a rebellion from the Muslim Brotherhood, he handled it by leveling the city of Hama, killing anywhere from 10,000 to 20,000 people.
History written in blood, history repeating itself every day in Syria.
Tonight the White House issued a statement. "The United States strongly condemns the Syrian government's outrageous use of violence across Syria today, and particularly in the northwestern region. There must be an immediate end to the brutality and violence."
Earlier I spoke by Internet phone with human rights activist, dissident and fugitive in her own country, Razan Zaytouni. We almost didn't manage it. The regime has been shutting down Internet service, trying to keep word from getting out of the country.
We lost the connection shortly before the conversation and lost it soon after, but we managed to find a narrow window to talk.
COOPER: Razan, we now have seen another video of another young boy allegedly tortured and mutilated by security forces. His name was Tamir Al Sahari. Do you know what happened to him?
RAZAN ZAYTOUNI, HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Tamir was arrested at the same day when Hamza was arrested. He was disappeared, the same circumstances like Hamza. Nobody knew where he was until about a few days ago when his body was delivered to his family.
He was tortured awfully. He was shot in his eye. His neck was broken. He was burned with cigarette on all his body. He was shot in his two hands and two legs. Every few day we have a new person, new detainee who was in detention. His body is delivered to his family, was dead under torture. So it's happening all the time.
COOPER: So they're -- they are -- they want people to see what they've done to -- to these kids, to adults, to people who they have tortured -- to scare people?
ZAYTOUNI: It's a message. It's a message of revenge, of hatred, to make people more scared about their sons, about their children, about their beloved people, not to go on in their -- in their revolution.
COOPER: The regime, of course, denies this. It says these kids were -- were if they got shot, they got shot by armed gangs during protests, which a, there is no evidence of, and also, it's important to remember that all of this began in Daraa with the arrest of children who were graffitiing (ph) signs against the regime. So all of this began when the regime started snatching children?
ZAYTOUNI: That's right. Because the regime doesn't want to take the responsibility for the crimes, the security commits. They committed the crimes and then they come on the official media and deny these -- these crimes.
COOPER: I've also seen now a video of what looks like Syrian soldiers kick -- kicking and beating an elderly man who is on his knees defenseless. I was amazed that they would shoot -- that the soldiers would shoot this video, and that this would get out, that they would want this to be seen.
ZAYTOUNI: You will be surprised that most of these videos, the soldiers and the security members themselves, they sell it for money. They don't feel it's that they are committing these crimes. They even don't care about the regime itself. They -- they just give it for money.
COOPER: Amnesty International says that Syrian soldiers are being told to fire on unarmed protesters. We've certainly seen this in video after video. But they have actually interviewed most recently one Syrian soldier who -- who was able to escape who refused to fire on civilians. Are there many soldiers who are refusing to fire?
ZAYTOUNI: Everywhere, every city, dozens of soldiers refuse to participate in attacking the cities and shooting the people. And as a result, they were killed. And until -- until now we have about 300 names of soldiers got killed before because of that.
COOPER: Have you heard any word from your husband who was arrested and has disappeared?
ZAYTOUNI: No. I heard nothing about him. I just heard some rumors that he got tortured very badly, and he is in very bad situation. I don't know if it's just messages by the authority for me, to put more pressure on me. Or -- I really don't know. COOPER: How are you able to keep going? How are you able to stay strong and optimistic?
ZAYTOUNI: I see the freedom very close. I can't wait to see it really and to feel it really. So we just continue, just go on until we reach there. We're almost there.
COOPER: Razan Zaytouni, stay strong. Thank you for being with us.
ZAYTOUNI: Thank you.
COOPER: Let us know what you think. We're on Facebook. You can follow me on Twitter @AndersonCooper. I'll be tweeting tonight.
Up next: more than 24,000 pages of emails taking us inside Sarah Palin's time as governor, including one email where she actually praises candidate Barack Obama just weeks before she started not praising him.
Also tonight, striking testimony as to how the prosecution thinks little Caylee Anthony died. Will it actually persuade the jury that duct tape was part of the murder weapon? Can they tie it to Caylee's mom? That's the other question.
COOPER: Well, tonight the emails of Sarah Palin: These are 24,000 pages of emails from Sarah Palin's half term as governor of Alaska. It took official requests from six news agencies, including CNN to get Alaska to give them up.
We've been going through them and so have many news organizations. And so far there are really no big blockbuster. They record her frustration with questions about her family's state-paid travel, efforts to link a figure in a state corruption scandal to her defeated predecessor, plenty of messages about the media focus on her family. An official at her PAC saying they show a very engaged governor being the CEO of her state.
But this email did stick out. August 2008, quote, "He gave a great speech this morn in Michigan, mentioned Alaska." He being candidate Barack Obama. "Stole our energy rebate $1,000 check idea, stole our TC-Alaska gasoline talking points, et cetera." She adds "We need to take advantage of this a write a statement saying he's right on." Right on.
And here is a portion of the speech that she was emailing about at the time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I believe we should give every working family in America a $1,000 energy rebate, and we should pay for it with part of the record profits that the oil companies are making right now.
Over the next five years, we should also lease more of the national petroleum reserve in Alaska for oil and gas production. And we should also tap more of our substantial natural gas reserves and work with the Canadian government to finally build the Alaska natural gas pipeline, delivering clean natural gas and creating good jobs in the process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well again, for the most part, she liked the speech. That was before she was involved with the race.
August 4th, three weeks later, John McCain chose her to be his running mate, and from there on out, candidate Obama and later President Obama could do no right.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN (R), FORMER GOVERNOR OF ALASKA: Our opponents say again and again that drilling will not solve all of America's energy problems. The fact that drilling though won't solve every problem is no excuse to do nothing at all.
We will. Drill, baby, drill.
Barack Obama and Senator O'Biden you've said no to everything in trying to find a domestic solution to the energy crisis that we're in.
They have said no, no, no, no to the domestic solutions.
There is nothing stopping us from achieving energy independence that a good old-fashioned election can't fix. Let's send the White House this message. Let's drill, baby, drill, not stall, baby, stall.
President Obama, it scares me. It saddens me that the CEO of our nation does not understand that inherent link between the conventional sources of energy that we're dependent upon and our security, our prosperity, our freedom.
There is somebody in the White House who doesn't get it. He doesn't understand the need to be energy-secure.
He is absolutely on the wrong track.
It does come down to drill, baby, drill, in addition to all of the above energy policy that really is nonexistent in the Obama administration.
He doesn't know what he is doing when it comes to energy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, Sarah Palin before and after.
Again, 24,000 pages of emails came out today. With us now Drew Griffin, who is in Alaska who has been digging through them. Drew, what was the big delay in, excuse me, in releasing these emails? What was the argument to not release them?
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was a huge task. Obviously, Alaska didn't want to take on the dollars that it would take to go through this search. They said they spent over a million dollars on it. And I think the delay was also that they wanted the Alaska law department to look individually at each of these emails and determine whether or not there was an attorney-client privilege or whether there was this policy privilege that they have in Alaska which basically protects lawmakers' privacy when they're discussing policy issues, kind of to stir -- to stir, excuse me, honest debate over policy issues.
So they had legal issues for each one of these; 2,200 or so were withheld. A lot of them that we're seeing are redacted or eliminated all together. But that was the holdup. It was legal on Alaska government's end.
COOPER: No doubt opponents of Sarah Palin will be salivating over these things, looking at them very closely. Is there anything there that's going to give them ammunition against Sarah Palin?
GRIFFIN: You know, I think there is little minutia, stuff about the sun tanning bed at the governor's mansion, or whether or not somebody is paying per diem here or there. But overall, Anderson, I've got to tell you, the impression I have, and I've gone bleary-eyed this afternoon reading these, this is the Sarah Palin I was promised about when I first came up here when she was named the vice president.
This is the Sarah Palin, her staff, her family, her friends her supporters told me about. A very engaged, very smart-seeming, very kind and supportive person who is all wrapped up in the business of being the best governor she can be in Alaska. And I'm just kind of scratching my head why we did not see this Sarah Palin when she was running for vice president.
COOPER: In the emails, is there any indication she has that she is going to be selected for vice president? Because that would be interesting just to see as she starts to realize she is going to be vice president, just how she reacted to it.
GRIFFIN: You know what is stunning, and we're just going through those emails now. In fact, Kathleen Johnston just found one about going to the Republican National Convention and making plans for it.
I'm convinced now she had no idea, none, until the very end. She was talking about just her going to the convention with one staffer, no need for Todd to go. That way Todd and Trig can stay here and we don't have to make those travel plans.
She was actually invited on Larry King's show the night before she was to be nominated, and the topic was to talk about the potential vice presidential candidates. And she was telling her staff, well, if we can squeeze it in, maybe we should do that. It seems clear to me that she did not have any idea until the very end.
GRIFFIN: At least based on the emails I've been reading that she really didn't think she was going to be picked.
COOPER: And Drew, very briefly, I've gotten some tweets from people saying well, look these are -- these are private emails. Why should people have the right the read these emails? What is the argument for releasing them?
GRIFFIN: Well they're -- they're not private emails. They -- some of them do come from Sarah Palin's private account. But she was using that private account for state business. These -- these are emails between Sarah Palin and state executives, her staff about state business.
They made it very clear that those that we're not seeing, a couple thousand or so were very, very personal in nature. Now some personal ones I did see, I came across one where Willow Palin grabs her mom's Blackberry and is arranging a play date. And then, a friend finally said how did you get your mom's Blackberry? I mean it's just cute things back and forth. So there are personal emails. But these are emails that mainly relate to state business, and that's why they're being released.
COOPER: All right Drew, I appreciate it. Drew, thanks very much. If you want to read the emails yourself, you can find them on CNN.com.
Still ahead, new apology from Congressman Anthony Weiner, this time to his neighbors in his New York apartment building. At least the note has his -- has Weiner's name on it, we should say. We'll tell you what it says ahead.
Plus devastating testimony today at the Casey Anthony murder trial. What a medical examiner said and the disturbing images the jury saw.
COOPER: A lot happening around the country and the world tonight. Isha is back with the "360 Bulletin" -- Isha.
ISHA SESAY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the bloodiest day this month. That's from a doctor in the western city of Misrata. At least 31 people were reported killed today. And more than 150 were wounded as forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi pounded that besieged city.
At his farewell speech in NATO, outgoing U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates criticized the alliance, calling it poorly equipped to deal with challenges and blasting member countries for what he said were shortages in military spending and political will. CIA Director and Defense Secretary nominee Leon Panetta is in Pakistan for his first visit since Navy Seals raided Osama bin Laden's compound and killed the al Qaeda leader. Panetta is expected to reaffirm U.S. commitment to cooperation with Pakistan against al Qaeda.
And an old-school apology, using pen and paper. Apparently Congressman Anthony Weiner -- CNN found this note in Weiner's Queens apartment building and it read this. It said, "To our neighbors, please forgive the inconvenience of all the press outside. I am sorry for all I have done that has now impacted you. Hopefully it will soon pass, Anthony."
Well, for those who managed to sleep through this entire week, he is, of course, Anderson, talking about his twitter sexting.
COOPER: Oh, is that what he is talking about.
SESAY: Yes. Just in case you missed it; you were under a rock or something.
COOPER: Up next, a scuttle at the courthouse -- a fight broke out at the courthouse where the Casey Anthony murder trial was taking place.
Look at this.
People fighting with each other, knocking a woman down, all to get into the courtroom. Inside the courtroom, we should tell you, new testimony about the remains of 2-year-old Caylee Anthony. The chief medical examiner testifying why she ruled Caylee's death a homicide, even though she can't say what exactly the cause of death was. It's connected to the duct tape that forensic experts say was wrapped around Caylee's mouth and nose.
The latest from the trial ahead.
COOPER: On "Crime and Punishment", chaos at the courthouse where the Casey Anthony murder trial is taking place this morn. More than 100 people were gathered for a chance to get inside to watch the testimony. Before 1:00 a.m. someone tried to cut the line. Police were called and removed three people. And then here is what happened at 5:30 a.m.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop it. Stop it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't get this.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: Crazy. A woman was knocked down as people ran up to line up in a different area. She was taken away in an ambulance. Then as the line formed again, more tension as some people were pushing and shoving each other. Only the first 50 people in the line are allowed inside the courtroom.
When testimony got underway today, the focus was once again on the skeletal remains of Casey's 2-year-old daughter Caylee. The medical examiner in the case, the chief medical examiner testified that there was no evidence of an accidental drowning as the defense is saying; no child should have duct tape on its face when she dies.
She called it homicide. Here is Gary Tuchman with today's developments from the courtroom.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Casey Anthony cried in court again after graphic photos of her daughter were shown. The day after, court ended early because Casey claims she was ill after more photos were displayed.
Today the focus was on the medical examiner, who doesn't believe the defense's claim that Caylee accidentally drowned in the family pool. And her mother panicking, decided not to tell anyone.
Dr. Jan Garvaglia's take: it never happens that way.
DR. JAN GARVAGLIA, CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, DISTRICT 9, FLORIDA: 100 percent of the time when the person finds the child, they call 911 because there is a chance that that child might live.
TUCHMAN: And that is one of the reasons she answered this question this way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have an opinion as to the manner of death in this case?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is that opinion?
TUCHMAN: Casey Anthony went from crying to angry, grumbling to her attorneys, who weren't pleased either.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the bottom line is when you say, and you place a label "homicide by indeterminate means", you're saying that circumstantial evidence to you says that it probably was a homicide?
GARVAGLIA: Not probably. I think that is the only logical conclusion based scientifically on some of the scientific information we have. Based on observational information we have about homicides and children dying. TUCHMAN: The medical examiner says not reporting the alleged drowning and dumping the body in the woods were key reasons for her declaration, and something even more damaging to the defense --
There is no child that should have duct tape on its face when it dies. There is no reason to put duct tape on the face after they die.
TUCHMAN: The prosecution is now saying the duct tape found on the skull of little Caylee was the murder weapon; that Caylee was suffocated.
This forensic anthropologist created a computer-generated video using this picture. We can't show the video because it includes her skull. But it shows how the duct tape could have been situated on Caylee's face.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would the single piece of tape if applied in the position shown on the video been sufficient to have covered the nose and mouth and made breathing impossible?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
TUCHMAN: Once again, the defense was upset. Upset the judge allowed the video to be played.
JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: The only reason you have shown this to this jury is because that may -- I guess it's to demonstrate that it's possible that this could have occurred.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
BAEZ: And when we say this could have occurred, I mean it's possible that a piece of duct tape could have covered her mouth and her nose?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
BAEZ: When you say it's possible, it's also possible that it was not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
TUCHMAN (on camera): The duct tape is proving to be crucial evidence. Why, if little Caylee drowned, would she have duct tape on her face like a mask? Ultimately the defense will have to give a satisfactory answer to that question.
(voice-over): The heartbreaking evidence that has been put forward certainly does not help Casey Anthony. On this day prosecutors showed a picture of Caylee with her mother, wearing the same shirt she appeared to have on her decomposed body. The shirt had the sadly ironic words "Big Trouble".
Gary Tuchman, CNN, Orlando, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: Let's get more insight on today's testimony. But before we do, I do want to warn you some of it is very graphic just what we're talking about. You may find it difficult to listen to what our experts have to say.
Earlier I spoke with Jean Casarez, who is covering the trial for "In Session" on TruTV and forensic pathologist, Dr. Michael Hunter.
COOPER: Jean, you say this was a huge day for the prosecution. How come?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": It was because of the duct tape. The duct tape became front and center in this trial today. We heard through argument that prosecutors are going to say it was the murder weapon.
Now, duct tape was found with the skull, but it's become a (INAUDIBLE) issue of fact. The jury is going to deliberate on this. Was the duct tape over the mouth and nose of Caylee, or was the duct tape just to seal the bag maybe? That's what the defense is saying.
But here is the critical thing, Anderson. The forensic anthropologist was asked was the duct tape applied before decomposition of the little body? He said yes, because the jaw area always separates from the skull as a body decomposes. But that duct tape, the forensic anthropologists testified held the two together.
COOPER: But Jean, they weren't able to tie the duct tape to Casey Anthony?
CASAREZ: No. Now that's a big point right there, because we don't have any testimony, even circumstantially truly at this point that places that duct tape with Casey Anthony. I think it's going to be found in the home, but the strongest, Anderson, would be that the car was backed into the garage. The neighbor testified two days in a row after Caylee went missing, and that Casey had never backed the car into the garage ever that he had seen.
COOPER: But wasn't there some video of Casey's father using the same kind of duct tape to put up a missing poster?
CASAREZ: That's exactly right. So I think the duct tape is going to be traced to the home because those posters that a local Orlando affiliate shot when everyone was trying to find her, her family was putting the posters up. And that duct tape matched the duct tape on the remains. But still, we need to see circumstantially could Casey have been close to that duct tape.
So -- and there is video right now, we're just zooming in on that duct tape.
Dr. Hunter, if the medical examiner can't say how Caylee died, how is it possible for her to say that she believed Caylee was murdered? DR. MICHAEL HUNTER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Yes, well, she is saying that she can't determine necessarily a cause of death given the condition of the remains. They're skeletal. The pathologist has very little to work with.
COOPER: Right. There is not a lot of soft tissue, basically just skeletal remains?
HUNTER: Right, exactly. We like to have soft tissue where we can find injuries, inflicted injuries, trauma; it allows us to typically say with very good certainty this is what happened. This is the cause of death.
In cases where you have skeletal remains, you're not able to do that. But keep in mind, Anderson, that as a medical examiner, as a forensic pathologist, we don't simply do autopsies and look at the autopsy and say well, there you go. There is your cause of death.
We are experts at determining a manner of death. And we'll use all that information gleaned through the investigation up to the point where the body is found. The information about the vehicle, the information about how she was possibly packaged and found.
We use all of that, and that allows us to form an opinion as far as the manner of death. And in this case, the manner of death is, I think, clearly that of a homicide.
COOPER: The fact that duct tape, Dr. Hunter, let's talk about the duct tape which Jean brought up. The fact that it was found around -- in the areas around the mouth and the nose, to you is that clear evidence of homicide? That that was the cause of death -- suffocation?
HUNTER: No, no. It's not clear evidence. And I don't think it was clear evidence to the medical examiner here. She refused to say that it's suffocation because of the position of the duct tape. That's possible.
But when you think of the use of duct tape, there are other uses of that. Certainly I've come across cases where duct tape is used not necessarily as the mechanism of the homicide, but in order to have the body or what the body is placed in more easily transported. Duct tape is used to bind and move a body.
The fact that you have it up around the mouth certainly makes it somewhat suspicious. And duct tape has been found to be used in homicides of young individuals. I mean it definitely does occur.
But you know, another explanation, this body had been at the residence for an extended period of time decomposing. I think it's reasonable even to suggest that duct tape was placed over the mouth and nose simply because those are the areas where that fluid is initially going to come from. It would cause --
COOPER: That's where decomposition fluid initially comes out of first?
HUNTER: Right. And that's going to happen very early on, within at least the first couple of days. Maybe within a day you're going to have fluid coming from these areas. So if she is deceased and you have fluids coming from the areas, I can understand an argument to be made that duct tape was placed around those areas to simply stem the flow of that fluid.
Yes. It is suggestive, certainly, just by itself in its position of possibly the mechanism. But the medical examiner certainly wasn't going to go all the way and say this had to be suffocation because of where the duct tape was placed.
COOPER: Jean, prosecutors also showed an animation superimposing Caylee's picture on a picture of the skull and the duct tape. Why was that such an important piece of evidence?
CASAREZ: Well, it was allowed by the judge. And what it did -- and we've seen this in documentaries before, where they take a person's picture, and they took Caylee's and they superimposed the actual skull, and then the actual duct tape that prosecutors say was over the mouth and nose. Why? To show the jury that one piece of duct tape could cover the nose and the mouth.
Now, Anderson that will show that it could be the murder weapon. But also, I think it's going to show that one piece of duct tape was sufficient to cause the death. And Anderson, there were three pieces of duct tape -- prosecutors are going to say -- over that mouth. That's aggravating factor legally. They would use that in the penalty phase.
COOPER: Jean, yesterday Casey supposedly got sick halfway through the day, was excused from court. Today she was very emotionally, openly weeping when a witness said her daughter's bones had been chewed on by animals. Are the jurors watching her closely?
CASAREZ: You know, they aren't because they're so engrossed in the testimony. But what I did see today, and it was right when a sidebar was called, when the testimony was that it was animals that had taken the little parts of Caylee and dispersed them into this huge wooded area, I saw one juror, who I think is going to be instrumental in deliberations, he is a teacher. He teaches government. And he said he wants to be on this jury because he wants to be able to talk to his students about it in the months and years to come.
He was watching Casey Anthony cry in court. And I saw him taking notes in his notebook. And he was looking at her demeanor. What it means, we don't know. But he was taking note of it.
COOPER: Jean Casarez, I appreciate your reporting. And Dr. Michael Hunter as well. Thank you.
HUNTER: Thank you. (END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Still ahead, inside the life of WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange. He's confrontational, mysterious and driven. What a new CNN documentary has also uncovered, next.
COOPER: Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks remains free on bail in England as he appeals a ruling allowing his extradition to Sweden to face allegations of rape and sexual molestation.
Now this Sunday, a "CNN Presents" documentary reveals a side of the former hacker turned whistle-blower you haven't seen. In this excerpt, CNN's Kaj Larsen talks with journalists who teamed up with Assange to expose the innermost secrets of the U.S. military.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAJ LARSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So I've come here to London to the headquarters of "The Guardian" newspaper to meet up with some of the journalists who were holed up for weeks in a bunker with Julian Assange as they sifted through the secret cables and documents that were eventually to become known as the Iraq and Afghanistan war box.
What were your impressions of Assange the man when you first met him?
DAVID LEIGH, JOURNALIST, "THE GUARDIAN": He didn't behave like earthlings, you know. He would stay up all night tapping away at his laptop. And suddenly he would keel over and there's like the jacket buttoned up to the neck and like crash and go to sleep where he lay.
LARSEN: The more than 90,000 documents revealed a side of the Afghan war hidden from public view.
NICK DAVIES, JOURNALIST, "THE GUARDIAN": We started coming across really interesting information about collusion between the Pakistani intelligence service and the Taliban. So this was rich stuff that was buried in this database.
JULIAN ASSANGE, FOUNDER, WIKILEAKS: If you want see it on the map, it's easy --
LARSEN: But there was growing tension with Assange.
DAVIES: All of us came across material which was clearly likely to lead to the death of innocent civilians if we published it. All of us had the experience of bringing this to his attention and being told by him in effect in an Afghan civilian helps coalition forces, then they deserve to die.
LARSEN: Does Assange understand that there are flesh and blood consequences to the actions of say releasing secret documents?
LEIGH: He has to have it explained to him. He is not a person who is very high on empathy with other humans.
DAVIES: Finally in the last few days before we published, he got it. And he made a rather crude attempt to make the material which he was publishing on the Web site safe by withholding 15,000 documents out of the total of 92,000. But it wasn't enough.
ASSANGE: That's a direct quote.
LARSEN: On the eve of the launch date, names of Afghan civilians were still in WikiLeaks documents.
ASSANGE: We go at 10:00 p.m. tomorrow, London time tomorrow.
LARSEN: On July 25th, 2010, WikiLeaks released over 70,000 classified documents on the Afghan war.
ASSANGE: The material exposes an extraordinary range of abuses.
LARSEN: And all three newspapers published stories about the war box.
DAVIES: Within 48 hours, other news organizations were finding material on the WikiLeaks Web site which clearly was dangerous. And that meant that the political damage was done. His moral authority was reduced. He had made a terrible tactical mistake.
COOPER: Kaj Larsen reveals a lot more about the private world of Julian Assange, "WIKIWARS: THE MISSION OF JULIAN ASSANGE" airs Sunday at 8:00 p.m. on CNN.
Up next, meet this week's CNN hero, she is rescuing kids from lives of picking through garbage dumps and giving them an education.
COOPER: Every day millions of kids around the world pick through huge piles of trash, hoping to find enough scraps to sell to buy food for their families. These kids can spend their entire lives scavenging at city garbage dumps unless they can manage somehow to get an education. That's where this week's CNN Hero comes in. Here is Elena Duron Miranda.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELENA DURON MIRANDA, CHAMPIONING CHILDREN: Currently, in Argentina, there are a lot of children working. In Bariloche, most children work recovering waste from the garbage dump to sell for a small profit. They can be very small children; three, four, five years old.
All parents want a better life for their children than what they had. But there are times when the whole family has to work and try to make ends meet.
My name is Elena Duron Miranda. I founded an organization to help the boys and girls of the Bariloche trash dump to get out so they no longer have to work there to survive.
When I arrived in Argentina, it hit hard to see so many small children picking through garbage. Many of these boys and girls have dropped out of school. I decided that I had to do something for them.
We tried to be as fully integrated as possible. There is a school tracking group of psychologists and a social worker. We work with the family on the value of putting them in school. Any time we get a child close to school, it is a seed we are planting. You hope not to see the child on the street again. If he returns, we go after him.
Education is how we start to break vicious cycles to give children a better future. I learned something from the children every day -- to be happy even under very complex circumstances.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: How cool is she? Elena's organization provides customized educational programs to about 200 kids and their families free of charge.
Remember every CNN Hero was chosen from people you tell us about. To nominate someone you think is changing the world, go to cnnheroes.com
That's it for 360. Thanks for watching. Have a great weekend. I'll see you Monday.
"PIERS MORGAN" starts now.