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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Wild Animals Loose in Ohio; Republican Debate Fact Check; Anesthesiologist Calls Murray's Behavior Egregious
Aired October 19, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. It is 10:00 p.m. here on the East Coast.
Tonight: one man's obsession with wild animals, his dying act that unleashed his collection of predators on the public, then the deadly force taken to stop what could have been a lethal feeding. It all adds up to a very ugly picture.
We have to warn you, it's the picture of a tragedy that never had to happen, endangered animals, some nearly extinct, now lying dead in an Ohio farmland, including 18 of the rarest Bengal tigers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACK HANNA, DIRECTOR EMERITUS, COLUMBUS ZOO: Can you imagine 18 of them running around here in the neighborhood this morning? I mean I don't even want -- I won't sleep for a long time even thinking about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Jack Hanna and talking about what he says is the saddest day of his life. We'll hear more from him later tonight about those animals. The animals that never should have been kept, where they were, and whose lives never had to end the way they did.
We'll hear as well from a local sheriff whose deputies became reluctant hunters in the name of public safety. We're live on the scene later this evening.
We begin, however, tonight "Keeping Them Honest." Holding the people who want to be president to their word.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. RICK PERRY (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You won't hear a lot of shape-shifting nuance from me. I want to give the American people a huge big old help of unbridled truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Texas Governor Rick Perry today promising to be a truth teller, suggesting his GOP rivals are not."Keeping Them Honest," though, last night there were a number of incorrect statements made at the Republican debate. Let's take a look at some of the statements made and how they fit the facts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Over the last several years, 40 percent, almost half the jobs created in Texas were created for illegal aliens, illegal immigrants.
PERRY: That is an absolute falsehood on its face.
COOPER: You have 30 second, Governor Perry.
ROMNEY: Well, it's actually --
PERRY: That is absolutely incorrect, sir.
ROMNEY: We'll take a look at the study.
PERRY: That there's been a third -- there's been a third party take a look at the study and it is absolutely incorrect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, the study in question was done by the Center for Immigration Studies, and in fact the third party did question how CIS got that 40 percent figure. What's more, even the CIS -- even CIS admits that looking differently at its own data could give a much lower percentage.
Now here's Governor Perry on the Mitt Romney job creation record.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PERRY: Mitt, while you were the governor of Massachusetts in that period of time, you were 47th in the nation in job creation. During that same period of time we created 20 times more jobs. As a matter of fact, you've created 40,000 jobs total in your four years. The last two months we created more jobs than that in Texas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, in fact, Texas has created more jobs than Massachusetts, but that's largely because the state is so much bigger and the population is growing so much faster.
According to figures from the Labor Department and the Dallas Federal Reserve Bank, Governor Perry is wrong about that part about the last six months. The Fed numbers are 3,000 short. The Labor Department is about 20,000 fewer.
And Governor Romney is flat out wrong about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROMNEY: Americans are hurting across this country and the president is out there campaigning. Why isn't he governing? He doesn't -- he doesn't have a jobs plan even now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: "Keeping Him Honest," you can say that President Obama is in campaign mode traveling to swing states around the country. You can't deny what he's out there campaigning for.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Last month I sent Congress a piece of legislation called the American Jobs Act. Don't just applaud about it, vote for it. Vote for it.
I want you to send a message to Congress that this is important. Let them know.
And this is the bill that Congress needs to pass.
You should pass right away. You should pass it right away. Pass this jobs bill now. Pass this bill. We need to pass this bill and everybody would be better off if we pass it. Pass the jobs bill. They should pass it right away. I'm ready to sign the bill. I have got the pens all ready.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: President Obama campaigning for the jobs plan that Mitt Romney says the president doesn't have. Now other candidates laid into Governor Romney for the health care reform he instituted in Massachusetts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You've blown a hole in the budget up there and you've authored in Obamacare which is going to blow a hole in the budget of this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, actually that's not true. A recent report in the "New England Journal of Medicine" shows that employers, government and individuals, pay approximately the same proportion of health coverage costs after reforms they did before the law went into effect.
On the other hand, FactCheck.org found that the governor went too far when he said the government insurance didn't play a role in his plan. Some of the newly insured did in fact qualified for state provided Medicaid. Others, as Mr. Romney said, either got state help in buying private insurance or paid for it all themselves.
Governor Romney fired back and said to Rick Santorum over the TARP bank bailout program which President Bush created and President Obama continued.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SANTORUM: The problem is, in the first place, is that several people up here, the, quote, "business people," supported the TARP, supported the bailout.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, at issue, a letter sent as Congress was debating TARP from the chairman of the Democratic and Republican Governors Association, Joe Manchin and Rick Perry. It reads, and I quote, "As leaders of our respective organizations, we don't always see eye to eye on policy but we come together today with one clear purpose."
But it goes on, "We strongly urge Congress to leave partisanship at the door and pass an economic recovery package." The same day Governor Perry issued this state, quote, "In a free market economy, government should not be in the business of using taxpayer dollars to bail out corporate America."
So in one sense Governor Perry was for Congress doing something when the only thing they were considering was in fact TARP. On the other hand, the governor was also on record opposing that same one thing Congress was considering.
"Keeping Them Honest," CNN and other non-partisan fact checkers have also found problems with Herman Cain's claim that middle and working class people would not pay more under the 999 plan. Another false claim, Mitt Romney saying that Rick Perry was Al Gore's campaign chairman in 1988. Perry, a Democrat at the time, had no leadership role in the campaign.
And finally, "Keeping Them Honest," the moderator, me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Congresswoman Bachmann, you also said at the last debate that everyone should pay something. Does that mean that you would raise taxes on the 47 percent of Americans who currently don't pay taxes?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I said it during the debate and the discussion afterwards, I was flat-out wrong of course. What I knew and meant to say was 40 percent of Americans do not pay federal income tax. They do of course pay plenty of other state, local and federal taxes including federal payroll taxes, gasoline taxes and on and on. I made a mistake last night, and I apologize.
No corrections or apologies needed for the panel. Erick Erickson of RedState.com joins us, chief political analyst Gloria Borger, and Democratic strategist James Carville.
James, I didn't talk to you last night. What do you make of -- what you saw last night?
JAMES CARVILLE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, when Newt Gingrich makes more sense than everybody else put together, you probably got a problem. (LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: There's probably something -- well, Las Vegas, we got a problem. Now I think -- Erick has to say -- I think Perry might have helped himself a little bit last night and then he keeps coming out with a version of flat tax I think it will help him more a bit there.
The truth of the matter is, there's only two people up there that have any chance of being a nominee, that's Perry and Romney, and to that extent maybe Perry did -- might help himself.
COOPER: You think Herman Cain, even though he's surging in the polls --
CARVILLE: He has no chance. I mean I can say this because I'm a contributor. You can't. You're an anchor. He has no chance of being the Republican nominee.
COOPER: You're saying that based on what he --
CARVILLE: He has no chance.
COOPER: He has no staff --
CARVILLE: No staff.
CARVILLE: I wish he would but he doesn't have a chance, of course.
COOPER: All right. I think you made your point there.
Eric Erickson, I didn't talk to you last night though I read a lot of your tweets. You like what you saw in Governor Perry, or at least the -- what he came to -- basically, he came loaded for bear on stage?
ERICK ERICKSON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.
I mean where is this guy been? They said that they wanted to get him off script. And in fact you could see there were a couple of times he had scripted answers, like his response on the Reverend Jeffress matter and he just blobbed the script. So when he went off script he did well. I do think he bought himself a lifeline last night.
Look, Mitt Romney is capped in the Real Clear Politics average where they average all the poll together. He's never gotten above 25 percent. Voters are just asking for an alternative and the pounding that he got from Santorum and Gingrich and Perry, he went off script several times, including that one moment where he said that -- he called the lawn service company and said, I can't have illegals, for Pete's sake, I'm running for office. Well, that buys right into the narrative so many conservative have of him that he'll -- that he's just there to run for office. GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, Anderson, when you think about it, Rick Perry is doing the same thing that Barack Obama is doing on Mitt Romney. He's trying to remind people of why they didn't like Mitt Romney, why they didn't nominate him last time around.
And that's exactly what Barack Obama is doing. So in raising the lawn company issue with illegal immigrants, he's raising that issue again just to remind people that, you know what, you think I have got some problems on immigration policy? Well, he's not totally clear on it either.
And so I think you're going to -- you're going to see him continue to go back to a lot of the 2008 scenarios that Mitt Romney doesn't want to go back to.
COOPER: It does seem, James, that David Axelrod, the Obama team, are focusing still very much on Mitt Romney. Is that the way to go?
CARVILLE: Sure. Yes. It certainly makes sense. I mean, logically he's got to be the favorite. But you know what? The Republicans just don't want to vote for him. And if Perry can do anything -- I mean, this guy is a really bad candidate. They can't put Perry on FOX. That's how bad he is.
COOPER: Well, what do you -- why do you say he's a bad candidate?
CARVILLE: OK? I mean you can't. Because he can't give a speech, he can't debate, he can't do an interview. He can't do an ad board. He can't do anything. They can't put him in a situation where somebody might ask him a question.
BORGER: You know that's the problem with getting in late.
CARVILLE: And at some point he's going to have to do that.
BORGER: That's a problem with getting in late. When you're a candidate whose actually run one time before or you get in early, you kind of learn on the job, but Rick Perry doesn't have enough time --
COOPER: Well, James, how has he gotten this far if he's so bad?
CARVILLE: Well, he's had a pretty start. He went to 30 percent raise -- he can raise money, OK? And he was the governor of Texas. So he went to 30 percent, now he's at 9 percent. I mean maybe he will come back, maybe he will get better, grow, there will some incremental -- at least last night he went there with a purpose. I mean it was to hit Romney and obviously that was successful and everybody jumped in and helped him.
But it was kind of odd that he still -- he doesn't have a thought out sort of way that he can do things. He's not very good on his feet. He gave a terrible speech to the Values Summit Voters. You know it's just amazing how good a skill people are supposed to have, how few of them that he possesses.
COOPER: Erick -- Erick --
ERICKSON: You know, I would --
COOPER: Do you agree -- clearly you don't agree with that?
ERICKSON: No. No. I don't really -- I see where James is going with this. Yes, he's not good in the debates, he hasn't been great on the stump. He hasn't found his footing yet. That is part of the problem with getting in late. But this is a man who's been elected governor of Texas -- more than anybody. He's been in politics since 1992.
You can't -- even in Texas, going back to 1992, you can't get as far as he's gotten and be a horrible politician. But he does have to grow on the campaign trail and last night I think we were probably seeing a pulse of that growing.
CARVILLE: Look --
BORGER: Well, it's --
CARVILLE: I'm sorry, go ahead, Gloria. I apologize.
BORGER: No, it's a whole different issue set, though, you know? You're a governor of Texas, that's one thing. This is a -- a completely different issue set. Mitt Romney is a very, very tough opponent here. Republicans are divided. They are not quite sure who they want so it's a whole different sort of audition that you've -- that you've got going. It's a completely different arena.
COOPER: Erick, if Rick Perry is going for a flat tax, which seems like there's an indication that he is, will that take away some of Herman Cain's thunder on 999?
ERICKSON: You know it very well -- we're already seeing Steve Forbes coming out. I have just full disclosure, I have gotten hints of the plan myself. And it looks to be a very compelling plan, that he's going to trout out. And I think people will get it in the sense that it's looking at the income tax.
Like Newt Gingrich said last night in the debate, he applauded Herman for his plan but said we probably need to build any reform on the existing foundation which is the way Perry is going, so we're not going to have this debate on a national sales tax under the plan. It will completely refocus the debate on Perry. But then to jam his point he's going to have be ready for the questions on his plan.
COOPER: And --
CARVILLE: Right. I think it's smart politics for him to do that.
CARVILLE: But he's been -- this guy -- the World Series opens tonight, so he's a .350 hitter and that he's gotten smoked by every curve ball he's seeing. He can't do anything. And maybe he'll get his footing and maybe he's -- there's a reservoir of skill there somewhere. He had a little energy plan, he had a little better at the debate.
He's got his flat tax thing coming out. He's got to go out and sell it and defend it because believe you me, with the distribution table that's going to come out, this is going to come out, that's going to come out, he's got...
CARVILLE: ... on his feet.
ERICKSON: Anderson, I got to say I'm really disappointed that James used a baseball analogy instead of saying, he's like Tennessee playing LSU.
BORGER: You know, when this flat tax comes out, people are going to say. are you going to eliminate my home mortgage deduction? You know he's going to -- he's going to be besieged with questions about a flat tax just like Steve Forbes was when he ran and --
COOPER: Well, he's got a couple of weeks before the next debate so.
COOPER: Gloria Borger, Erick Erickson, James Carville, thanks very much. Appreciate it.
Let us know what you think, we're on Facebook. Follow me on Twitter, @AndersonCooper.
Coming up: shock in Ohio, a menagerie of wild animals let loose from a farm by a guy who then killed himself. We're talking bears, lions, wolves, tigers, most of them now dead in what a sheriff calls senseless killings. A closer look at how and why this happened. I will be talking with that sheriff, also with animal expert Jack Hanna, and a live report from the scene.
Also at the Michael Jackson death trial, jurors in the Conrad Murray trial seeing a dramatic video the defense calls terrifying and inflammatory -- what it showed coming up.
First let's also check in with Isha -- Isha. ISHA SESAY, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson, tear gas and anger in the streets of Athens. We'll tell you what has demonstrators so fired up. That and more when 360 continues.
COOPER: Well, the terror is now over in rural Ohio, but the sad news, the shock, and in some cases the outrage are just sinking in. Dozens of wild animals, dangerous predators, endangered species kept in a private collection then apparently loose by their suicidal owner. A man named Terry Thompson.
Fifty-six animals in all have been roaming the central Ohio country side -- excuse, this is how most of them ended up. Now if you love and respect animals, this is simply heartbreaking. Lions, leopard, grizzly bears, 18 Bengal tigers, most of them hunted down and killed in the name of public safety. Only a few of them saved, captured and being cared for tonight at the Columbus Zoo.
Just one animal, a monkey, may be unaccounted for, although, as you'll hear tonight, it may also have already died.
There's so many questions. Why did so many have to be killed? Why would any private citizen keep such a collection? Why was he allowed to do it at all?
In a moment you'll hear from the local sheriff who led the fateful hunt today. Also we'll talk to wild animal expert Jack Hanna who arrived on the scene. First though, the very latest from Jason Carroll in Zanesville, Ohio.
Jason, you spoke to someone working with the sheriff's office who confronted a Bengal tiger. She got within feet of it, right?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, yes, Anderson.
It was really sad. I mean that is the way that Barbara Wolfe -- she's director of wildlife with the Columbus Zoo, described it this morning. It was one of the last animals that was actually out on the loose. Bengal tiger.
There's been so much debate, Anderson, as you know, going back and forth about whether you tranquilize these animals, or whether or not you try and take them down. And she has a perfect example. She told me -- again she came within feet of this Bengal tiger and she actually tried to tranquilize it, hoping that it would -- that it would take the drugs and that it would roll over.
But unfortunately what happened, Anderson, is as with this case with so many wild animals, they -- the dart went into the animal, the animal reacted, then lunched at her and then sheriffs deputies had no choice but to take the animal down.
I think a lot of people think it's like in a movie where you shoot an animal with a dart and it immediately collapses. But with a wild animal, depending upon its size, how much it weighs, it could take a while for that drug to take effect, and that's just one of the -- one of the things that folks out here had to deal with in trying to take down all of this wild animals out on the loose.
COOPER: And Jason, you've obtained some of the 911 calls. What can you tell us about it?
CARROLL: Yes. Well, 911 calls started coming in about 5:00 yesterday to the sheriff's department. People calling in and saying, I see a bear on my property, I see a lion on my property, I see a wolf. Everyone in the area, very familiar with Terry Thompson and his reserve of the animals that he had. So sheriffs deputies knew exactly where to go. Take a listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 DISPATCHER: 911, where is your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. There's a lion on Mount Perry Road in (INAUDIBLE). There's a big horse on my right. I just drove by and I walked out in front of me and was standing there under the street light.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so, we got one of those lions that are missing out of Muskingum County.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And you just saw it on Mount Perry Road?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. How far off of 40?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About half a mile. It was going west.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's going west?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was heading west in a hurry. Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. We'll get somebody out in that area. Don't -- if you see it again, don't approach it, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm far from there. I was driving.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wildlife.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
CARROLL: And, obviously, Anderson, that lion had to be taken down a short time later. The big question now for investigators is why Terry Thompson, a man who by all accounts from everyone that I have spoken to out here loved these animals, why he opened the cages and set them free, and then took his own life.
COOPER: Jason, thanks very much for that.
A short time ago I spoke with the local sheriff, Matthew Lutz.
COOPER: Mr. Sheriff, what's the latest on the status of the animals?
MATTHEW LUTZ, MUSKINGUM COUNTY, OHIO, SHERIFF: Right now we have one animal that we believe is unaccounted for. That animal could be missing. However it could have been -- it could have perished in the -- in this incident with one of the lion eating it.
COOPER: That's the monkey you're talking about?
LUTZ: Yes, I'm sorry, the monkey.
COOPER: So there was also a wolf earlier today that was still on the loose. Was that wolf put down?
LUTZ: Yes. It was actually shot last night. And everything that was going on here it was actually -- had crossed a road from the property that it came from. Deputy Mary was able to shoot that wolf last night. However, we just did not get it recovered in time today to add it into the count.
COOPER: Do you know in total how many animals were killed?
LUTZ: We had a total of 56 animals. We have one missing which took us down to 55. We had six that were transported to the Columbus Zoo and we have 49 that were killed and buried today.
COOPER: Obviously, you know, there are people who are going to question, could darts have been used, could tranquilizers have been used? It seems to me you didn't have much time. I mean your deputies obviously aren't normally carrying around animal tranquilizers.
LUTZ: We don't carry tranquilizers in our cruisers. If this had been a 9:00 or 10:00 incident in the middle of the day, odds are high that we may have been able to surround the area and keep everything contained but our biggest problem we had in this whole thing was nightfall. Now we had about an hour to hour and a half of good light. And you know we had several animals roaming free on this property going in the darkness and we just couldn't take that chance.
COOPER: What do you know about this guy, Terry Thompson? I understand he was well known to -- I don't know to you personally or to law enforcement authorities in the region who had visited him before.
LUTZ: Yes, we're very familiar with Terry. I was very familiar with him personally. We've been at his house numerous occasions on investigations. Terry has done some local jail time in our jail for animal violations. And you know we knew of him and knew of his situation.
COOPER: So authorities had been out to check his permits and to monitor him as best they could over the years?
LUTZ: Yes. The moderation of this complex, basically, you know, he was not using it as an attraction, to show people or to take for pay. So the bottom line was, you know, we had had several different agencies out there, seven different officials out there to inspect them and all those kinds of things, and you know nobody could ever order us to shut him down.
COOPER: Sheriff, I know it's been a long 24-hour period for you. I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you.
LUTZ: Thank you.
COOPER: Well, we frequently talk to Jack Hanna when the subject is wild animals. Sometimes, the stories deal with people who don't understand that caring about such animals is one thing and actually taking care of them something else entirely. But never in our experience or his we've seen anything quite like this.
Jack Hanna is director emeritus of the Columbus Zoo and host of "Jack Hanna's Into the Wild," He arrived on the scene early this morning to try to help out. I spoke to him earlier tonight.
COOPER: So, Jack, have you ever seen anything like this?
HANNA: You know, Anderson, I won't forget this for the rest of my life. I'm trying to picture what this is like. All I told somebody was, Columbus Zoo one of the finest zoos right down there, 50 miles. The Wilds is 10,000 acres behind me, 10 miles. And in between here, Noah's Ark crashes, you know, and the result of it, we have 30 something, maybe 42 animals, I can't -- exact number, dead now. Thank goodness no human life was lost.
I can tell you this, Anderson, if these animals hadn't been put down last night, this would have been a sight that you would -- you wouldn't have seen this morning. Eighteen Bengal tigers, says the sheriff, coming down the road, all of them spread out. Grizzly bears, wolves, leopards.
Can you imagine this? Probably the largest escape in the history of this country. This afternoon about 3:00 we found the tiger laying in the grass over there. You know just crouched down. The veterinarian got within 20 feet -- our veterinarian has an excellent shot. Shot the animal, what did the animal do? Come exploding right towards the veterinarian. What would anybody have done?
COOPER: So even though -- even though this tiger --
COOPER: That was just today. Even though this tiger had been hit by a dart, it still lounged for the veterinarian? HANNA: Yes. Anderson, it takes anywhere from three to six minutes for a tranquilizer even begin to take effect. Begin to take effect. Nothing happens to that animal -- that animal is full blown for three to six minutes until it goes effects and it goes to sleep. And plus, Anderson, you don't hit him in the muscle, did it hit the bone part, did the plunger go in? These are all -- you know, you tranquilize animals, that's pretty good today. We have the great medicine, we have the great rifles, all that stuff, but they're not 100 percent.
COOPER: So even today --
COOPER: That guy within 20 feet shot the animal with the dart but immediately the animal leapt and so what the deputies -- put the animal down?
HANNA: Exactly. But last night, can you imagine, Anderson? We only have four tranquilizer guns. I mean who would ever thought that 40 something animals would be running around, tigers and lions -- 18 tigers with four tranquilizer guns and the dark? I mean darkness was coming within 30 minutes to an hour.
COOPER: Basically, you had deputies having to respond to this immediately trying to stop these animals from spreading out further. They are not armed with tranquilizers because under normal circumstances, why would normal sheriff deputies be armed with tranquilizers?
You're saying they had to do what they had to do.
HANNA: Very good point, Anderson. You're the first one to bring it up. These animals -- these deputies aren't trained -- some of these animals, Anderson, were coming for the -- they had to use their weapons, their pistols. You know can you imagine sitting right there in front of them? These deputies hadn't been trained in this. You know?
COOPER: I heard --
HANNA: Those officers saved some human lives.
COOPER: I heard from one person, one report of a farmer who saw, I think it was a lion, going after one of their horses on his farm.
HANNA: I have heard that. Right now one bear was found right next to Interstate 70 here -- 70 right here next to me. And right here is a property. Can you imagine that bear was getting ready to go across Interstate 70. And that bear -- by the way one cat was hit by a car, one cougar or a lion. I'm not sure what it was that hit by a car out there.
That's why the interstates have these big, red signs, you know, exotic animals loose, call 911. But right now, Anderson, it looks like everything is taken care of. There was one monkey left. And right now then we found a carcass of a monkey that looks like one -- you're one of the first people I told this. Looks like we found the carcass of the money. We don't know if it was eaten and that might be the monkey we're looking for.
We don't know. And by the way, right now, we took four leopards, I think, to the Columbia Zoo, a grizzly bear and three primates right up there right now that was just left there, and that was all, and we toll those to zoo right now until we can check them out, and make sure they're happy and everything and all cared for, and legally figure out what to do.
COOPER: What are you hearing about the man at the center of all this, this man who killed himself but not before opening up these gates, un- securing his gates?
HANNA: Well, this man was a pilot. This man I guess made motorcycles. This man loved to collect exotic animals but the condition up there which is uncalled for from what I understand from my people that went up there. I think, Anderson, what happened, he just got out of prison for some kind of firearms charge several weeks ago.
His wife, I understand, left him. That's what I understand. So, therefore, here's a guy coming back depressed, sees his animals in filth or whatever, says, that's it. He cuts all the cage wires, opens all the doors, goes down there, lays down and shoots himself, and all of a sudden, to his life, that's great. But to us out here, 18 Bengal tigers lost their lives, Anderson.
I will never forget this as long as I live. You've covered animals and you know what the Bengal tigers about 1400 left in the world. Can you imagine 18 of them had to give their lives today? Lions, bears -- if you saw this carnage laid out up there, you wouldn't want -- that's why they're buried right now. We buried them about an hour ago. They took them up -- dug a big hole and they're now buried up there.
COOPER: I mean, what's that like for -- for someone who's obviously spent your entire life, you know, focused on saving animals and teaching other people about animals, to see the bodies of all these animals laid up -- laid up out like that?
HANNA: I'm a pretty grown person, Anderson, but what really got me was the wife came in back, all right, when she heard about all of this. And she said, because right now nothing is left, all right, except the little primates and a few cats. She said, my husband is dead, you've killed my family and she was shaking so violently.
And finally, I looked at her, Anderson, I saw a defeated person. It was wrong what happened, no doubt about it. But what was I to do? I really wanted to -- they said she was mad at me so I was getting ready to have a -- maybe a confrontation. You know what I did? I started crying. That may sound corny to you. But I can understand her love for animals. But she -- there's a love that people have, they don't understand what they're doing kind of.
And no, she had this great love. I said, we're going to take -- well, I'm not taking your children. She said you're taking my children. I'm not taking your children. I'm taking them to the Columbia Zoo to give them a proper home now. And that's what I'm trying to do for you. I don't know what's going to happen to her. She's lost everything now. But you can see the carnage left over after this terrible mess right now. Yes, I cried when I was with her.
COOPER: A lot of people love animals but loving an animal, that doesn't mean you can care for an animal nor does that mean you should buy and house an animal.
HANNA: You're right.
COOPER: That should not be in someone's private home.
HANNA: You're right, Anderson. What you're doing is you're buying a bunch of loaded guns, is what you're doing. You should buy a bunch of loaded guns, you're waiting for them to go off. And that's what happened up here today.
COOPER: Jack Hanna, I know it's been a long -- long day and night for you. Thank you. Appreciate you joining us.
HANNA: Thanks, Anderson.
COOPER: It's very sad.
Up next, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, a stop in Afghanistan -- why she's there and what she hopes to accomplish.
And the trial of Michael Jackson's doctor resuming today -- will a controversial video played in court hurt the doctor's defense? See for yourself when we continue.
COOPER: Ahead in "Crime & Punishment," prosecutors in the Michael Jackson trial are preparing to wrap up their case by presenting a video the defense calls terrifying and claims it's meant to inflame the jurors. We'll let you be the judge.
First, Isha Sesay joins us with a "360 News & Business Bulletin" -- Isha.
ISHA SESAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton landing under tight security in Afghanistan today for an unannounced visit. She's meeting with President Hamid Karzai to discuss America's commitment there along with Afghanistan's relationship with Pakistan.
Violent clashes between police and protestors outside the Greek parliament. It comes as lawmakers there prepare to vote on budget cuts that could mean thousands of job losses. Officers fired tear gas and arrested more than a dozen demonstrators.
Apple employees pausing to pay tribute to Steve Jobs. Apple stores across the country closed their doors to take part in a Web cast remembering the company's co-founder. No doubt a very emotional day for many Apple employees -- Anderson.
COOPER: And you may remember Michael Winslow as -- as Officer Jones, the recruit with 1,000 voices from the "Police Academy" movies? Maybe not. He appeared on a Norwegian talk show, proving that he use those vocal chords to belch out his own take on Led Zeppelin's "Whole Lot of Love." Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That is pretty incredible. It sounds like electric guitar. It's all him.
SESAY: I just think it sounded like a whole lot of noise.
COOPER: You're not impressed?
SESAY: Yes, I'm not impressed. But then again, I was sitting here thinking, I don't think I know any Zeppelin songs.
COOPER: Well, I got that sense, as well. I got that sense, as well.
SESAY: Don't worry, I grew up listening to Bugs Fears (ph).
COOPER: The what?
SESAY: Bugs Fears (ph).
COOPER: Excuse me?
SESAY: It's a group from England.
COOPER: I don't know if I clearly heard what you said there.
SESAY: Google it.
COOPER: This should be kept clean, Isha. Keep it clean. It's a family show.
SESAY: I'm trying.
COOPER: I don't know what you're talking about.
SESAY: I'll get you a clip.
COOPER: OK. Making me nervous.
SESAY: Go away. Go away.
COOPER: All right. Serious stuff ahead. We're going to have the latest on the Michael Jackson death trial. Conrad Murray's lawyer preparing to make their case but not before prosecutors call one last witness. We'll tell you what he said about the pop star's final moments and what could have been done to save Jackson's life.
And Lindsay Lohan back in handcuffs. What a judge said she did not do that got her in trouble this time.
COOPER: "Crime & Punishment" tonight. An emotional day of testimony in the Michael Jackson trial. Prosecutors calling their last weekend witness to the stand, an anesthesiologist who questioned Dr. Conrad Murray's actions, including the pop star's final moments, and his priorities.
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DR. STEVEN SHAFER, ANESTHESIOLOGIST: When Dr. Murray agreed to treat insomnia with Propofol, he put Dr. Murray first, not Michael Jackson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Ted Rowlands has more from the courtroom.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The prosecution's last witness took the stand today, a leading anesthesiologist who called Propofol an outstanding drug, a drug that, in the right hands, would not have caused the death of Michael Jackson.
SHAFER: I am asked every day I'm in the operating room. I tell patients what I'm going to do, and I'm asked the question, "Are you going to give me the drug that killed Michael Jackson?" I get that question daily. This is a fear that patients do not need to have.
ROWLANDS: Dr. Steven Shafer presented this video to the jury to demonstrate how to administer Propofol safely.
SHAFER: The first thing you do is you have to do the preparation of the room. So at this point, Professor Huang is review the anesthesia machine, checking the equipment, and making sure that everything is -- basically properly in place.
There's emergency airway equipment that must be available. It's not surprising that we're starting our setup with airway equipment, because the single most important aspect of anesthesia, ever, is continued movement of air into the lungs.
ROWLANDS: This photo, shown earlier in the trial, is Michael Jackson's bedroom, where Dr. Conrad Murray says he administered a small dose of Propofol to Jackson on the day he died. Prosecutors say Murray had none of the necessary equipment to monitor Jackson while under sedation or to revive him in an emergency.
Shafer used his video to make the point that quick action is needed when a patient goes into cardiac arrest. SHAFER: The heart has stopped beating. The patient is not breathing. This is a cardiac arrest. Again, you have to respond instantly. And I cannot emphasize enough the first response to an emergency. Those of you who have taken a CPR course may remember the instructions for CPR. You find a person who is unresponsive, what's the first thing you do? Call for help.
ROWLANDS: According to the prosecution's timeline, Murray first noticed Jackson wasn't breathing right before 12 p.m. The 911 call didn't come in until 12:22, more than 20 minutes later.
SHAFER: The facts in this case, in my view, suggest that virtually none of the safeguards for sedation were in place when Propofol was administered to Michael Jackson.
ROWLANDS: Shafer said Jackson's life could have been saved if Murray took the necessary precautions. But the bottom line, according to Shafer, Murray never should have given Michael Jackson Propofol in the first place.
SHAFER: If Dr. Murray had acted as a doctor, the very first time Michael Jackson said, "I need Propofol to sleep," a doctor would say, "You have a sleep disorder, and you need to be seen by doctors who specialize in sleep disorders, not by having me show up with Propofol."
ROWLANDS (on camera): The defense is expected to start its case Friday. They'll try to convince the jury that Michael Jackson accidentally killed himself by administering that fatal dose of Propofol. The jury could possibly get this case for deliberation at some point next week.
Ted Rowlands, CNN, Los Angeles.
COOPER: Let's bring in Mark Geragos, criminal defense attorney, who once represented Michael Jackson, and Sunny Hostin, former federal prosecutor, legal contributor for "In Session" on our sister network TruTV.
Mark, Dr. Shafer says that Dr. Murray was more like an employee to Michael Jackson, that he wasn't a doctor, basically taking orders from the patient. Pretty damaging stuff.
MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it is for the element of gross negligence. And the prosecution has done a whale of a job proving that he was grossly negligent.
The problem they've got is, in order to convict Dr. Murray, they still have to show that his gross negligence caused the death. And I don't know that they've made that burden. Their burden is beyond a reasonable doubt, that the Propofol and the administering of it is what caused this cardiac arrest. And I think that's what the jury is going to be wrestling with, and it's certainly what the jury instruction is going to say, this idea of causation. COOPER: Sunny, do you think his gross negligence caused the death and, by not having the right equipment in the room?
SUNNY HOSTIN, LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR, TRUTV'S "IN SESSION": There's no question about it.
I don't know what trial, Mark, you're watching. The bottom line is, not only has the prosecution proved that Conrad Murray did not have the proper monitoring equipment. They proved that he shouldn't have been putting Michael Jackson to sleep with Propofol. But for those actions, Michael Jackson would still be alive today. Witness after witness after witness has testified to that.
GERAGOS: Do you know what the -- you know what the problem is? Is when you do these packages, and I don't mean to condemn CNN -- I love CNN -- and all you do is show the direct testimony with the prosecution's case...
HOSTIN: They haven't done anything on cross-examination.
GERAGOS: ... the other night. Exactly. And that's why -- wait until tomorrow and they ask one question of this doctor. I predict that the question will be, "Aren't all of your conclusions that you just testified to yesterday based on an I.V. drip?" And when the doctor says yes, then you're going to say, and this wasn't an I.V. drip? Right. And then, OK, where are we left? How does that show that it caused...
HOSTIN: That's not how it's going to happen.
GERAGOS: That's the problem with this. This is not ESPN doing an NFL -- this is -- I'm just going to tell you something. This isn't -- you can't look at a trial as if it's an NFL football game.
He is presumed innocent. They have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, and you have to wait until all the evidence is in. So I'll tell you, so far, I don't think they've met their burden on causation.
COOPER: It's interesting, Sunny, he could be facing four years in prison, but there's a new law in California that might -- that might mean he doesn't -- wouldn't serve any time in prison.
HOSTIN: That is true. I mean, he certainly faces up to four years in prison. That's the maximum jail sentence. But there's this new law in California that basically is sort of intended to relieve this prison overcrowding.
So, if you're a nonviolent offender, this is your first conviction. You get to serve your time in the county jail. But the county jail is overcrowded, as well. So your four-year sentence automatically becomes a two-year sentence, and the bulk of that sentence could be basically at home under house arrest.
But the bottom line, if he gets convicted of this, Anderson, he will lose his medical license. And not only does he lose his liberty but he loses his livelihood. And that's really what the concern is. COOPER: Mark, it is interesting. Even if he is found guilty -- we're a long way from that -- but even if he is found guilty, chances are he would not see any jail time.
GERAGOS: Well, we have -- what you've been referring to is called realignment. Just took effect October 1. And the bill is ripe for exactly what would happen is he falls under this provision that, No. 1, even before realignment, he never would have done more than two years actual, even if the judge maxes him out. And he could be eligible for the electronic monitoring.
But I've said before, Anderson, I told you before, he caught the biggest break in the world when prosecutors did not charge him with second degree implied malice murder, because that carries a life sentence right now. So right now he's kind of playing with house money.
COOPER: Mark Geragos, thank you.
Sunny Hostin, as well.
Up next, say it isn't so. Lindsay Lohan back in front of a judge behind bars. We'll check in with Isha in just a little while.
SESAY: More from Anderson ahead. First, a 360 Bulletin.
SESAY: Turkish troops are striking back in northern Iraq. They're moving into the area and vowing revenge after 24 of their fellow soldiers were killed by Kurdish rebels known as the Kurdistan Workers Party. Those rebels are on the U.S. State Department's list of designated terrorist organizations.
Turkey's president has a tough message for the killers.
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ABDULLAH GUL, PRESIDENT OF TURKEY (through translator): No one should forget this. Those that inflict this pain on us will endure pain many times over. Those that think they will weaken our state with these attacks or think they will bring our state into line, they will see that the revenge for these attacks will be very big, and they will endure it many times over.
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SESAY: Here in the U.S., the FDA says bad sanitation at a cantaloupe packing facility in Colorado may have contributed to the listeria outbreak that has been linked to 25 deaths. Jensen Farms recalled the cantaloupes last month.
Lindsay Lohan was led out of a courtroom in handcuffs today after a judge revoked her probation. Lohan apparently hadn't been showing up for her community service at a women's center. Lohan has said it wasn't, quote, "fulfilling." The judge ruled she now has to do community service at the L.A. County morgue and has another hearing in two weeks.
An incredible discovery in the Scottish highlands: a 1,000-year-old fully intact Viking grave. British archaeologists found the grave of a Viking warrior who was buried in his boots, along with a sword, shield, spear and axe.
And French President Nicolas Sarkozy and his wife, Carla Bruni, welcoming the birth of their new daughter. A close family friend says the new mother is doing well. This is the couple's first child, though President Sarkozy has three from a previous marriage.
Now back to Anderson.
COOPER: "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT," 11 p.m. Eastern. Erin, what's next?
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Well Anderson, we're going to talk about a flat tax. Last night in your debate, Rick Perry said he was going to have an economic plan by the end of the week. And today, he said it's going to have a flat tax in it. Does a flat tax work for America? We do the math, get to the bottom line and get the numbers.
Then we're going to be talking about what could be done to make the Republican ticket exciting for Republican voters. Well, a lot of that might have to do with the VP part of it and one of the men con tension is Republican governor Bob McDonald. Coming "OUTFRONT" tonight. Until then, back to you, Anderson.
O'REILLY: Erin, thanks. We're looking forward to it.
Coming up, just because Harry Belafonte's eyes happened to be closed doesn't necessarily mean he was sleeping on live television. We're getting to the bottom of this. "The RidicuList" is next.
COOPER: Time now for "The RidicuList." And tonight it's kind of a bedtime story, featuring the one and only Harry Belafonte. The singer, actor and activist has been, really, interviewed for a few weeks now promoting his new documentary, memoir and CD. Watch what happened when it came time for him to talk to the morning news team at KBAK in Bakersfield, California.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Harry Belafonte joining us live this morning from New York. Good morning, Harry. Harry, wake up. Harry? Wake up, wake up. OK. This is your wake-up call, Harry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: OK, um, indeed. This is a classic journalistic dilemma. It's early in the morning, the celebrity you're about to interview is all miked up. You have all your questions ready, and he's back asleep. What is an eyewitness news team to do? (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been doing this for quite some time now, and I have never seen that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's just say this. Let's just say this. That the way this works is they do a lot of interviews all at once -- early morning, a lot of them -- and perhaps, obviously, if he could hear us he...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think he could really hear us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: In the business, we like to call this technique stretching. Basically, just keep talking until the thing that was supposed to happen actually happened. The technique, sadly, does not always work.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was he in R.E.M. sleep? Like, he was just...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he couldn't -- he couldn't hear. He couldn't hear. He couldn't hear. Oh, and he's taking a nap over there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It's R.E.M. sleep. So the interview never happened. But wait, there is more to the story. Harry Belafonte was never even asleep, it turns out. I repeat: he was not sleeping.
In what is pretty much the most awesome statement ever, here's what his publicist said. And I quote, "His earpiece wasn't working so he decided to take the time to meditate before his rest of his day-o. Mr. Belafonte is 84 years young but sharper and more awake than most who have been interviewing him. Maybe the world would be a better place if more people took a moment to meditate."
I agree. Meditation could be quite beneficial. I know that I definitely feel my best when I can meditate for seven to eight hours every night. Here, look, here's Vice President Biden meditating during a speech that President Obama is giving.
Sometimes, when you don't get enough meditation at night, the whole day, you might fall into many meditations at inopportune times. Here's a little puppy trying to meditate on a set of stairs. There are even times when news anchors accidentally meditate live on the air.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, 50 in February.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That lovely stretch where we...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Half of our ice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You went crooked and fell asleep.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That's right. Everybody needs to meditate now and then. And, hey-o, if it's working for Harry Belafonte, 84 years young and still going strong, I'd say more power to him. So what if he missed one interview? If nothing else, it makes a great bedtime story for "The RidicuList."
That's it for 360. Thanks for watching. "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.