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George Zimmerman Reenacts Shooting; New Allegations Against Jerry Sandusky

Aired June 21, 2012 - 22:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. It's 10:00 here on the East Coast.

And we begin tonight with breaking news in the Jerry Sandusky child abuse case: new accusations, incredible accusations from yet other alleged victim, but this time, it is Sandusky's adopted son. Matt Sandusky is his name. He said through his attorney late today that Jerry Sandusky sexually abused him and that he was prepared to testify for the prosecution during the trial. He was not called to the stand.

We're going to get into why in just a moment, because that's of course the question everybody wants to know the answer to.

First, though, a bit of background. Matt Sandusky is 33 years old now. He went to live with the Sanduskys as a foster child. He was later adopted. He had denied ever being abused by Sandusky until just this week. As the trial was going on, he apparently approached prosecutors and told them that his adoptive father did molest him.

Joining me now live with the latest, national correspondent Jason Carroll, and also contributor and "Patriot News" reporter Sara Ganim.

Jason, if Matt Sandusky's claims that he was molested was known by the prosecution, why didn't they call him to testify?

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's a good question.

I think there's a question in terms of whether or not his testimony would have been admissible, simply because for one reason, Jerry Sandusky is not charged with sexually abusing his son.

I can tell you this. Think of this scenario. Let's say for example Jerry Sandusky had taken the witness stand and had said during his testimony, I'm a great father, I have a great relationship with my children. That, then, would have opened the door for the prosecution to call a rebuttal witness.

And my sources told me, if Jerry Sandusky had taken the stand, they were prepared to put Matt Sandusky on the stand as a rebuttal witness and my source tells me that his testimony, Anderson, would have been -- quote -- "very, very damaging."

Now, also, let me just sort of backtrack here a little bit. When the trial first began on day one, I saw Matt Sandusky sitting there on the sidelines with the rest of the Sandusky family. So what happened between then, when the trial happened, and today, when we get this statement from his private attorney, who basically said Matt Sandusky contacted this private attorney and said, I want you to reach out to prosecutors and tell them -- quote -- "to disclose for the first time in this case" that he is a victim of Jerry Sandusky's abuse -- Anderson.

COOPER: Now, Sara, Matt Sandusky -- and correct me if I'm wrong here -- but Matt Sandusky's wife had petitioned the court to not allow their kids to sleep over Jerry Sandusky's house. This was a long time ago, correct?

SARA GANIM, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: That's right. And probably even more importantly, his mother, as far back as 1996, has been asking the courts to take a deeper look into the relationship between Matt and Jerry Sandusky.

When he was in foster care at the Sandusky home, she had seen behavior that she would later describe to the grand jury as strange, as stalking-like behavior. She described one time where Matt Sandusky fled from the Sandusky -- or Matt -- who was Matt Hikel (ph) at the time -- fled from the Sanduskys' home in the middle of a rainstorm in the middle of the night and didn't want to go back, even after Jerry showed up at a relative's house where Matt was hiding out.

And so she described all of these things, but Matt Sandusky himself got before the grand jury, and we don't know exactly what he testified to. But Joe Amendola, who is Jerry Sandusky's attorney, told me at the time it was nothing that they were worried about, that they expected him to be a positive witness for Jerry Sandusky and they felt that his biological mom was just angry at Jerry Sandusky and was making these allegations.

COOPER: And his biological mom had also testified in front of that same grand jury recently, correct?

GANIM: Right. She testified about a year ago.

And that's what she said. She said...

COOPER: A year ago.

GANIM: ... you know, that she witnessed this stalking-like behavior, that she witnessed him flee from Jerry Sandusky's house in the middle of a rainstorm and that she confronted her son before he was adopted and asked her if anything strange was going on, and he said nothing except, I don't want to talk about it.

COOPER: And, Jason, the accuser number four who testified, actually mentioned Matt Sandusky during his testimony. What did he say about him?

CARROLL: He did. He was the first witness to testify on day one of the trial. He said he was about 13 years old. He had taken a shower with Jerry Sandusky at Penn State. It was one of those soap battles that we have heard so much about. And that's when he said he came into contact with Matt Sandusky. He said -- quote -- "He," as in Jerry Sandusky, "started pumping his hand full of soap like he was going to throw it. Matt got out. He went to another shower."

Then prosecutor McGettigan says, "Can you describe how Matt looked?" Number four's answer was, "Nervous." And I think the implication was very clear there -- Anderson.

COOPER: Jason and Sara, stick around.

I want to bring in our local panel, criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos, co-author of "Mistrial," which comes out in November. Also with us, CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Sunny Hostin.

Mark, what do you make of this? Do you find the timing of it suspicious at all and does it make sense to you why they would not have mentioned this during the trial?

MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, obviously, I think the timing is incredibly suspicious.

They wait until the jury is out, the day the jury gets out and then all of a sudden there is a press release basically, for lack of a better term. It's exactly what it was. And clearly they have this person who is under oath already in front of a grand jury, who's been -- presumably given statements to the police.

Who do you think orchestrated this in order to have it come out on the day the jury goes out to deliberate? I find it suspicious. And I also don't know that this judge would have ever let him testify in their case in chief, maybe as rebuttal to -- if Sandusky had taken the stand, but not in their case in chief.

COOPER: But you're saying why would it be released the day the jury went out? If they wanted to impact the trial somehow, are you saying that it can somehow still filter into the jury?

GERAGOS: Oh, if you believe for a second that jurors don't hear everything that's going on, even when they're sequestered, I have got a bridge to sell you in Arizona.

This -- it would get into the ether. They would know it -- they will know it immediately. Look at every jury that's ever been sequestered. They know exactly what's going on around them. It leaks in no matter where you keep them. Sequestration rarely, if ever, works.

COOPER: Sunny, couldn't they have brought in his -- though Sandusky didn't take the stand, Dottie Sandusky did take the stand. Couldn't they have asked her some questions about what kind of a father Jerry Sandusky is, and if she said he was a great father, then brought in Matt Sandusky if they had wanted to, to rebut that? SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think that's possible.

But we're not really clear on the timeline here, Anderson, because we know that Matt Sandusky did speak to the prosecution, perhaps after the prosecution had already rested its case in chief and in contemplation of Jerry Sandusky taking the witness stand.

So timing is very, very important here. And let's remember, by all accounts, it was very difficult for Matt Sandusky to admit that this sex abuse even happened. And that's very common with victims of child sex abuse. There's sort of that shame and that secrecy that goes hand in hand with this kind of abuse.

So I'm not surprised that he is just coming forward. And I agree with Mark that certainly he would not have been able to testify in its case in chief because he wasn't -- Jerry Sandusky wasn't charged with these crimes. But as a rebuttal witness, if Jerry Sandusky got on the witness stand and proclaimed his innocence and also talked about his relationship with his children, I think that would have opened the door to what would have been just bombshell evidence.

I of course disagree with Mark. I think that juries are sequestered from information. I think we do it in courtrooms every single day in our country. I think it works very, very well, and I don't think this was a planned thing to try to infiltrate the jury room. I don't think that's true at all.


GERAGOS: Sunny, I have got that acreage in Arizona for you.


COOPER: NBC News has an interview with another alleged victim who says that Sandusky tried to adopt him when he was in high school.

I just want to listen to part of that.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I tried to get him off me and resisting him and he kind of pinned me down on the bed. And I told him if he didn't get of off me, I was going to call the police on him. And he just laughed at me and, you know, forced me to stay on the bed and told me if I ever said anything that nobody was going to believe me and he would get my dad fired from Penn State.


COOPER: Now, this accuser is part of a civil suit against Sandusky, but not part of this criminal trial.

What do you make of that, Mark? I mean, legally, could this person press criminal charges against Sandusky if the trial is over?

GERAGOS: No, hardly. I don't think it would get anywhere. There's a principle in the law that if they knew about it beforehand, you just can't dribble it out like a water torture on somebody and serially prosecute them, number one.

And before you said he was part of a civil lawsuit, I was going to predict that he was part of a civil lawsuit. Unfortunately, in cases like this, even when there are legitimate victims, there's always these kinds of looky loser me-toos who always jump on to the train or the litigation train.

COOPER: We have got to leave there. Sunny, Mark, stay with us. We're going to come back to you later on.

Today's other huge legal development, a tape of George Zimmerman reenacting the night he shot and killed Trayvon Martin. We're going to show it to you. And really curious to know if it changes the way you view this case either way.

We're on Facebook. Follow me on Twitter @AndersonCooper. We will talk about it on Twitter once we air that.

In politics tonight, Mitt Romney campaigned in the primary as a hard-liner on immigration. We all know that. Well, now he's trying to win the Latino vote -- his efforts today and how they're playing next.


COOPER: "Raw Politics" tonight: Mitt Romney in search of Latino votes, trying to close a big gap with President Obama on this one.

Speaking today to a national Latino group, Governor Romney said that America must make lawful immigration more attractive. He said he favors offering citizenship to immigrants serving in the military, which is now part of the now dead DREAM Act.

He did not, however, mention his pledge during the primary to veto a DREAM Act if one passed during a Romney presidency. As for what he'd do about President Obama's decision allowing work visas for young illegal immigrants who go to school, you're going -- you will recall he shied away from the question almost a week ago, including notably with CBS' Bob Schieffer last weekend.


BOB SCHIEFFER, HOST, "FACE THE NATION": Would you repeal this order if you became president?

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, let's step back and look at the issue.

SCHIEFFER: What would you do about it?

ROMNEY: Well, as you know, he was president for the last three- and-a-half years, did nothing on immigration. SCHIEFFER: But would you repeal this?

ROMNEY: Well, it would be overtaken by events, if you will, by virtue of my putting in place a long-term solution with legislation which creates law that relates to these individuals such that they know what their setting is going to be.


ROMNEY: ... not just for the term of a president, but on a permanent basis.

SCHIEFFER: Would you leave this in place while you worked out a long-term solution or would you just repeal it?

ROMNEY: We will look at that setting as we reach that.

But my anticipation is I would come into office and say we need to get this done on a long-term basis, not this kind of a stopgap measure.


COOPER: I think that was four times Bob Schieffer asked the question in different ways. That was taped on Saturday. He didn't answer the question then, hasn't really answered all week.

So, was he any more specific today? Well, take a look.


ROMNEY: Some people have asked if I will let stand the president's executive order.

The answer is that I will put in place my own long-term solution that will replace and supersede the president's temporary measure. As president, I won't settle for stopgap measures. I will work with Republicans and Democrats to build a long-term solution.


COOPER: Basically the same answer he gave to Bob Schieffer.

President Obama speaks to the same group tomorrow.

Joining us now is CNN contributor, Republican strategist and former Jon Huntsman 2012 national Hispanic chairwoman Ana Navarro, also Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, national campaign co- chairman of Obama for America.

Ana, let me start with you.

A lot of people expected Governor Romney today to say what he would do specifically with President Obama's newest immigration policy if he were to become president. But he didn't say. And he basically repeated exactly what he said to Bob Schieffer. ANA NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, you know, what he said was that he was going to replace it with a permanent solution. What I hope that means...

COOPER: Right, but that's what he said on Saturday.


NAVARRO: ... there will not be mass deportations. That's what he said on Saturday. And I think that's what we're going to continue hearing him say.

It's a good thing because he's not saying that he's going to veto it, he's not saying that he's going repeal it. He's saying that he's going...


COOPER: Right, he's not answering.

NAVARRO: ... with a responsible long-term solution.

Well, Anderson, if we took issue with all the politicians who don't specifically answer questions, I think there would be very few left in Congress and anywhere in America. You know, this is, I think, a very different Mitt Romney than what we have heard.

I have been very critical of him in the primary. And I think the Mitt Romney I heard today is much more nuanced, has a much more moderate tone, more serious, sober policy proposals.

I heard a lot of policy proposals from him on how to fix the legal immigration problem. And there are things -- some of them would chip away at the illegal immigration problem. I wish I had heard more from him. But I am happy with as a start.


Mr. Mayor, Mitt Romney started his speech talking not about the immigration policy, but about the flagging economy. As you know, the economic downturn has hit Hispanics particularly hard. If the economy does not approve by November, could that cost the president the Latino vote, a voting bloc that the Obama campaign firmly believes this election could hinge on?

ANTONIO VILLARAIGOSA (D), MAYOR OF LOS ANGELES: Well, first of all, let's be clear. He said the president's policies put two million Latinos in poverty.

Actually, it's the opposite. Two million people, Latinos are out of poverty because of his policies. In addition to that, look, he wants to make this about the economy today. We're going to make it about the future, because we believe that if we make investments in education and infrastructure and transportation, if we make investments that support and strengthen the middle class, that's good for the economy and it's good for America. My grandpa got here from Mexico 100 years ago. He left a country that was rich and poor. We don't want to bring our country to that point. And I think, speaking on immigration, by the way, "The New York Times" said today that he was evasive and not answering the question.

The fact is, if he wants to propose a DREAM Act now, a permanent solution, he can do it. He could call on the Congress to do what they should have done a long time ago, what 208 Democrats did when they passed the DREAM Act a while back and what 51 Democrats in the Senate did.

But he's not doing that. Instead, he's engaging in equivocation, as he's done throughout the campaign. He's talked about the self- deportation of 11 million people. What does that mean? That means dividing families. That means sending parents back and leaving their kids here. That's not the America we know and love. That is not the America that my grandpa came to 100 years ago.

COOPER: Ana, the governor keeps talking about he will have a long-term solution and that President Obama's is the short-term solution. President Obama in announcing this said, this is a short- term solution. And he wants to work on a long-term solution. He would like one, but in the interim, they're doing this short-term solution.

Why would Governor Romney -- why shouldn't Governor Romney answer whether or not he would repeal it? Because there's no guarantee he could get a long-term solution through Congress.

NAVARRO: I don't think there's any guarantee that either of them are going to get a long-term solution.

I think Obama has lost his best opportunity. If Obama gets reelected, he is a lame duck from day one and he's coming into a very polarized Congress. He had a Democrat majority his first two years. And he failed to act on immigration. I think what Romney did today, Anderson, was resist the trap...


COOPER: You don't think it's a cop-out for Romney just to say, well, I'm going to work on a long-term solution and not ask -- answer -- I mean, we all know why he's not going to answer whether or not he would repeal it, because it politically puts him in a difficult spot, no?

NAVARRO: Look, I think -- I think he's trying to walk a tightrope.

But I also appreciate -- I appreciate that he's not coming to these Latino events and pandering on immigration. I was at this same Latino event four years ago when Barack Obama promised to do immigration reform in one -- in the first year of his presidency. That is pandering. Not only did he not propose a plan. He hasn't led on it. He hasn't spoken about it. We haven't seen anything from him, other than more deportations. So I think Mitt Romney was not falling into the same trap. And he said that over and over again. Basically, the bottom line is, Hispanics on immigration, for those who are undocumented, those who are worried about the undocumented have two choices, either a guy who has whispered sweet nothings into our ear, makes big promises every four years, and then doesn't deliver anything but higher deportation, or a guy that does not make big promises, does not pander. And what he commits to is to work on it.

Those are the two choices on immigration. I think Hispanics would be well-served to look at the entire picture and the entire package and all the other issues that are important to us.

COOPER: Mayor, would you say to the president -- that his ruling last week was about politics?


VILLARAIGOSA: Actually, Governor Romney has made different promises to different people.

You were at most of the debates, CNN sponsored a number of them, where he called for the self-deportation of 11 million people, where he called Kris Kobach, the Arizona and Alabama laws a model for the nation, where he said that the DREAM Act was a handout.

Today, he's moving his position a bit on a number of those issues. The best thing he could do to get this out of politics and out of the campaign is to call on Speaker Boehner and Senator Reid, to call a special session of the House. Let's get the DREAM Act passed. Let's get comprehensive immigration passed. Let's, Democrats and Republicans, work together to pass this and get it out of the campaign.

COOPER: Mayor, Mayor Villaraigosa, I appreciate you being on, Ana Navarro as well. Thank you.

In other news tonight, we're following a just-released video giving a new view of the Trayvon Martin shooting. It shows George Zimmerman literally walking police through the moments that led up to Martin's death. This was shot the day after the shooting. Will the reenactment change any minds? You can watch for yourself, decide for yourself.

Let us know. We're "Keeping Them Honest."


COOPER: Caught on tape: middle school students repeatedly calling their 68-year-old bus monitor horrible names -- tonight, the victim speaks out. We're going to talk to her. How does she -- does she accept the students' apologies? Find out when we continue.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: In "Crime & Punishment" tonight, you're about to get your first look through the eyes of George Zimmerman of the night he shot and killed Trayvon Martin.

It's video of him on camera literally walking police threat right moments that ended with Martin dead on the grass (AUDIO GAP) against Zimmerman. It's extremely compelling on its face. But what makes it even more so is its context in the broader case itself.

That's because, early on in the story, really before anyone had any idea of the evidence in the case, so many people seemed to have made up their minds about what happened that night. The reenactment made a day after the shooting and obtained today as part of the trial evidence won't be the last word on anything. It won't settle the issue certainly or the case.

But if you watch carefully, it might help you decide for yourself whether George Zimmerman's self-defense story holds up. The video runs about 12 minutes in total. Now, we have shortened it somewhat, picking it up after the point where Zimmerman explains he's spotted Trayvon Martin and parked his SUV. Watch.


GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, DEFENDANT: And I saw him walking back that way and then cut through the back of the houses. He looked back and he noticed me. And he cut back through the houses.

I was still on the phone with non-emergency. And then he came back. And he started walking up towards the grass and then came down and he circled my car. And I told the operator that he was circling my car. I didn't hear if he said anything.


ZIMMERMAN: But he had his hand in his waistband. And I think I told the operator that. And they said, where are you? And I could not remember the name of the street, because I don't live on this street.


ZIMMERMAN: And then I thought to get out and look for a street sign.


ZIMMERMAN: So I got out of my car and I started walking...


ZIMMERMAN: Oh, back there. They said, are you following him? And I said yes, because I was, you know, in the area. And they said, we don't need you to do that. And I said OK.

So, I -- that's when I walked straight through here to get the address so that I could meet the police officer.

When I got to -- I passed here. I looked. I didn't see anything again. And I was walking back to my truck. And then, when I got to right about here, he yelled from behind me, to the side of me. He said, "Yo, you got a problem?"

And I turned around and I said, "No, I don't have a problem, man."


ZIMMERMAN: He was about there, but he was walking toward, me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So he's coming from this direction here?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.

I -- like I said, I was already passed that, so I didn't see exactly where he came from. But he was about where you are.


ZIMMERMAN: And I said, "No, I don't have a problem."

And I went to go grab my cell phone, but my -- I had left it in a different pocket. And I went -- and I looked down in my pant pocket, and he said, "You got a problem now," and then he was here and he punched me in the face.

I stumbled. And I fell down. He pushed me down. Somehow, he got on top of me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the grass or on the cement?

ZIMMERMAN: It was more over towards here. I think I was trying to push him away from me.

And then he got on top of me somewhere around here. And that's when I started screaming for help. I tried to see him, and he tried to punch me in the face. My body was on the grass. My head was on the cement.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so you're basically facing this way?

ZIMMERMAN: And I kept yelling, "Help, help, help me as loud as I could. He put his hand on his nose -- on my nose. He put his other hand on my mouth. He said, "Shut the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up." And I tried squirming again, because all I could think about, when he was hitting my head against it. I thought my head was going to explode, and I thought I was going to lose consciousness.

So I tried to squirm so that I could get -- he only had a small portion of my head on the concrete. So I tried to squirm off the concrete. And when I did that, somebody here opened the door. And I said, "Help me, help me."

And they said, "I'll call 911."

I said, "No, help me. I need help." And I don't know what they did.

But that's when my jacket moved up. And I had my firearm on my right side hip. My jacket moved up. And he saw it. I feel like he saw it. He looked at it. He said, "You're going to die tonight, mother (EXPLETIVE DELETED)," and he reached for it. I felt like, his arm going down to my side. And I grabbed it. And I just grabbed my firearm, and I shot him one time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After you shot him, keep on going, what did he say?

ZIMMERMAN: After I shot him, he like sat up. And he was on top of me like this. I shot him. And I didn't think I hit him. He sat up. And he said, "You got me. You got it. You got me. You got it." Something like that. So I thought he was just saying, "I know you have a gun now, I heard it. I'm giving up."

So I don't know if I pushed him off me or he fell off me. Either way, I got on top him. I pushed his arms apart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Flipped him over?

ZIMMERMAN: I don't remember how I got on top of him, I'm sorry.


ZIMMERMAN: I got on his back. I moved his arms apart. Like, he was repeatedly hitting me in the face and the head. I thought he had something in his hands. So I just -- I moved his hands apart.

Then's when the police officer came around. I saw the police officer. So I stood up, and I holstered my weapon. He said, "Who shot him?"

I said, "I did."


COOPER: Some other late developments in the case. Late yesterday, Sanford city manager fired Police Chief Bill Lee. You'll recall he tendered his resignation back in April but city commissioners declines to accept it.

Tonight, we also have audio of a police interview conducted three days after the shooting. On it, you can hear a detective prodding Zimmerman about possible inconsistencies in the story.

He's also heard asking Zimmerman why he did not identify himself as the Neighborhood Watch, later telling "the Orlando Sentinel" that if Zimmerman had done so, he, quote, "probably wouldn't be where he is now." Presumably, Trayvon Martin would also still be alive.

We're back now with our lawyers. Mark Geragos is co-author of "Mis-Trial." It's coming out in November. Also back with us is Sunny Hostin.

So Mark, what do you make of this tape? Good for Zimmerman's defense?

MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, it's fantastic for Zimmerman's defense in the court of public opinion.

The problem is, in a real courtroom, it will probably never see the light of day. The prosecution is the one who's going to have to introduce this, because they're the adverse party. And I can't imagine why the prosecution would introduce it.

COOPER: Because you think it speaks well for him? His story, you think, holds up?

GERAGOS: I think his story does hold up, and it's -- you know, the prosecution's going to say it's self-serving hearsay. That's the term you're going to hear. But the fact remains, is that he's the one that's telling the story. He doesn't get to be cross-examined. So unless he's going to take the stand, I highly doubt you're ever going to see this tape in a courtroom.

COOPER: Sunny, do you think Zimmerman's story adds up?

SUNNY HOSTIN, TRUTV'S "IN SESSION": I don't think so. I mean, there's just so many inconsistencies.

And when you read the transcript of the 311 call and you read the interview between Officer Serrano, Detective Serrano and George Zimmerman. And you watch the videotape, there are so many different inconsistencies.

Quite frankly, I think this is helpful for the prosecution, because now you have George Zimmerman a day after the shooting, Anderson, wedded to a re-enactment. That has to be his story. And the prosecution knows this. And still charged him with second-degree murder.

So I suspect that they have looked at that statement and have determined with some sort of forensic evidence, some sort of corroboration, that it doesn't hold up, that it doesn't make sense.

And so I think, actually, this is a good thing for the prosecution because of the rampant inconsistencies and because there is likely to be other evidence that can support another version of events.

And don't forget that Trayvon Martin was on the phone, and the girl that he was on the phone with says something entirely different than George Zimmerman's self-serving version of events. So this is actually just a good thing for the prosecution.

COOPER: Mark -- Mark, it's interesting to see Zimmerman, though, because A, he looks different than some of those pictures where he's larger. And also, you know, there have been all the debates of what sort of wounds, if any, did he have. People are trying to analyze video tape. I mean, he certainly -- at least his nose is bandaged up there, as is the back of his head. We don't see what's underneath those bandages. The implication, I assume the police would know what's underneath them.

GERAGOS: Well, if you look at the tape, you're going to see what he's got what looks like the forming of black and blue marks there around this facial area. He's got the -- kind of the bandage stitch -- stitching in the back, the butterfly bandages for stitching in the back.

And I think that I hate to disagree with Sunny. But Sunny, I'll put a friendly bet on it.


GERAGOS: You're not going to see this tape in the prosecution's case in chief. I will guarantee you. In fact, the only reason Sunny says that is because Sunny assumes that this prosecution must know something that they don't. Or that we don't. And so far, every time we've assumed that, we've been wrong.

Right. We've got to leave it there because we have so much to cover. Coming up on the program.

That viral video of kids bullying a 60-year-old school monitor has not only sparked outrage. It's inspired strangers to donate hundreds of thousands of dollars to the grandmother who suffered the abuse.

Here name is Karen Klein. Tonight, she is speaking out. We're going to talk to her on this program in just a few minutes about what happened on that bus.


COOPER: And welcome back.

Up close tonight, a type of bullying not often talked about, let along captured on video: kids bullying adults. In this case, a 68- year-old grandmother who works as a school bus monitor.

A student on the bus recorded it with a cell phone. Now, the video has gone viral, sparking outrage, causing a lot of people to ask how could a group of middle-school kids act so despicably to an adult? It's frankly sickening to watch, but here's what -- some of the video that we're talking about.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God, your glasses are foggy from your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) sweat, you fat (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dude, put those glasses back on. I can't stand looking at your face. If you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) looking into her eyes, you're going to turn into stone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Karen, Karen, put those sunglasses back on. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you looking like a troll.


COOPER: The video goes on for a painfully long time. Karen Klein, the target of all that cruelty, somehow manages to keep her cool. It could not have been easy. I couldn't even watch the entire 10 minutes of this video.

Since that video went online, she's seen an outpouring of report. You're going to hear from her in just a moment, but first, here's Randi Kaye with the full story.


RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The ten-minute video begins with bus monitor Karen Klein in her seat at the back of the bus, surrounded by a small group of seventh graders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God, you're so fat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dude you're so fat. You take up like the whole entire seat.

KAYE: The students, all boys, tell Klein, their 68-year-old bus monitor for the Greece Central School District in upstate New York, that she's so fat, she'll probably die from diabetes.

But it's not just verbal attacks. There are physical threats too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're a troll. You're a troll. You're a troll. You old troll.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about I bring my knife and (EXPLETIVE DELETED) cut you? If I stabbed you in the stomach, my knife would go through you like butter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your address so I can freaking piss all over your door?

KAREN KLEIN, SCHOOL BUS MONITOR: I'm not going to tell you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) take a crap in your mouth.

KAYE: Klein takes most of it in silence, hardly engaging the kids, except at moments like this.

KLEIN: Unless you have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.


KAYE: While everything these teenagers said was cruel, this comment was the most hurtful of all. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't have a family 'cause they all killed themselves 'cause they didn't want to be near you.

KAYE: Karen's son had committed suicide ten years ago. It's unclear if the kids knew about his death.

(on camera) Police tell us the video was recorded by one of the boys involved in the verbal attacks, who then posted it on his Facebook page. From there, it was picked up and posted on YouTube. And by Thursday afternoon, it had gone viral, with more than 1.6 million hits, putting this quiet community of Greece, New York, on the map.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's disgusting. Do you know, I raised eight children. If one of my children would have done that, there would be a consequence to this. And I don't care what, but you have to have respect, and it starts at home.

KAYE (voice-over): Just 48 hours after the video was posted online, Klein told me these same students have misbehaved before. But never like this.

(on camera) How are you feeling when they were saying such cruel things to you?

KLEIN: I didn't catch them all. The things I did catch, I didn't know what to do. It was one of those things. I didn't know what to do.

KAYE: Investigators here have interviewed all four boys involved. They may be suspended or expelled from school for a year, or possibly even charged with aggravated harassment, menacing or stalking.

But for now this grandmother of eight says she doesn't want to pursue criminal charges. All she wants is an apology.

(on camera) Is there anything that these kids could say that would take away the hurt that they caused you?

KLEIN: That they won't do it, that they won't do it to anyone else. They thought they were so smart, so smug, you know, maybe that will wipe the smile off their faces, too. But I cannot see pressing criminal charges.

KAYE: Randi Kaye, CNN, Greece, New York.


COOPER: I think a lot of people watching this video want to wipe the smile off those kids' faces in different ways.

Now, the cruelty that Karen Klein endured on that bus ride has been countered, as we said, by an extraordinary outpouring of support. People she's never met have raised more than $380,000 online for her.

Karen agreed to talk to me for tonight's "Big 360 Interview."


COOPER: Karen, when I saw this video, I think like most people in this country, I was just stunned at how horrible these kids were to you. Has this happened before?

KLEIN: Never. I've had occasional children that have misbehaved but nothing like that.

COOPER: What was going through your mind when this was happening?

KLEIN: I was trying to get it out of my mind. I was trying to make it go away. I was looking at the window. I was -- kept looking. Because I needed to check on the other kids. And I don't know. I just didn't -- I didn't hear everything that they said. I probably would have been a lot more upset if I had.

COOPER: Did you know these kids by name? Did you know who they were?

KLEIN: I knew where they lived. And two of them, I knew their name. Three, yes, two of them, I knew their names. The other ones, I hadn't really called them by names. So I really didn't know. Two of them are getting in trouble so -- like I say, I knew where they lived. And I knew they were getting off soon. And that was making me happy.

COOPER: What do you think caused them to do this?

KLEIN: I really have no clue. Trying to impress each other. You know how kids, they hang out in a group, and they each try to outdo the other. I think that was it. And I was their likely suspect, because I was back there. You know, they -- I don't think they ever picked on the other kids. Just me.

COOPER: Do you think they're bad kids?

KLEIN: Not really. Not deep down. But when they get together, things happen. Sometimes worse than other times.

COOPER: One of the fathers -- one of children's fathers just talked to you. What did he say to you?

KLEIN: He said -- he said he was so sorry that his son did that, and he was very disappointed in his son. And basically, he asked me if I was OK, you know. That was about it.

COOPER: So we received some statements through the police from -- from two of the children who were tormenting you. Josh wrote, quote, "I'm so sorry for the way I treated you. When I saw the video, I was disgusted and could not believe that I did that."

What do you make of that?

KLEIN: Of course, he's going to say anything. I mean, Josh, he always has this smirk on his face. I don't know, maybe that's the way he really looks. But he always, just like after he said something, you know, I mean he always liked to cause trouble. I don't know what it was. Even if it wasn't picking on me, it was something else. So I just don't think I would believe anything Josh had to say. And I did want to talk to him today.

COOPER: Another child, Wesley, said, quote, "I feel really bad about what I did. I wish I had never done those things. If that had happened to someone in my family like my mother or grandmother, I would be really mad at the people who did that to them."

Do you accept these apologies?

KLEIN: I haven't gotten any yet. One is supposed to be being mailed, but I haven't gotten that one. So -- the other two, I might not get anything from anyway.

COOPER: What do you want to happen with -- to these kids?

KLEIN: I want them to make sure that they never do this again to anybody. I would like them to be at least kept off the bus for a year, and be forbidden to play any sports, at least for a year. Somebody mentioned community service, and I thought that was a pretty good idea, too.

COOPER: There's been an outpouring of support for you, as you know. More than $300,000 has been raised. What do you think of all the support you're getting?

KLEIN: I still can't believe it. I can't believe it. That there's that much -- I don't know. I just don't feel like it will all come to me anyway, so I don't think too much about it. I mean, it's a nice gesture, but I just don't know -- if it's for real or not. It sounds too good to be true.

COOPER: Do you want to continue working on the bus?

KLEIN: I'd like to.

COOPER: Do you think you're going to press criminal charges?

KLEIN: Oh, I don't know. I don't think so. I don't know.

COOPER: I know you know about the money that's been raised, that's been donated by people around the country and probably around the world.

We've just learned one other thing that you don't know about. Southwest Airlines reached out to us today. They've been extraordinarily touched by your story. They wanted us to let you know that they'd like to send you and nine people to Disneyland in California for three nights, airfare, hotel, and car all included.

KLEIN: You've got to be kidding me. That's awesome. Nine people?

COOPER: Do you have nine people you'd want to bring?

KLEIN: Yes. My family. Minus a couple. Wow. That's too much.

COOPER: Did you ever expect this kind of support?

KLEIN: No. Never. I mean, I don't feel like I've done anything, you know. That's what's awesome.

COOPER: Well, Karen, I wish you well, and I hope -- I hope you're able to move on from this. And I hope you get all the well wishes and all the support that people have given you.

KLEIN: Thank you very much.


COOPER: Well, we wish her the best.

As you heard in the interview, we've received statements through the police from two of the kids who were on the bus and two parents apologizing to Karen. It's the first time they've spoken publicly about what happened. You can read their full statements on our Web site at

More news ahead, including a dramatic defection in Syria, involving a military pilot and his aircraft.


SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson is back in a moment. First, a "360 News & Business Bulletin," starting in Kabul. The Taliban claiming responsibility for suicide attacks on a popular hotel. NATO and Afghan troops are on the scene, and civilian casualties have been reported. The Taliban claims to be going room to room on a bloody rampage.

A Syrian military pilot has fled to Jordan with his jet and is granted asylum. This comes after the U.S. warned members of the Syrian military they could face international criminal prosecution for attacks on civilians.

And those attacks continue. An opposition group says at least 115 people were killed throughout the country today alone, including ten children.

Commerce Secretary John Bryson has resigned less than two weeks after his involvement in a pair of traffic accidents.

Also, we want to say happy birthday to Prince William, Duke of Cambridge. William is now 30, which means he will inherit his share of the more than $30 million estate of his late mother, Princess Diana.

Stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Well, due to breaking news, there's no time for "The RidicuList" tonight. That does it for us. Thanks very much for watching. "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.