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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
New Details on Deadly Lion Attack; Justice Sotomayor Fights for Her School; Filibuster Fallout
Aired March 7, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Erin, thanks.
Good evening, everyone. Tonight, the jury has got more tough questions for Jodi Arias. By the sound of them, it is not looking good for the defense. The latest from inside the courtroom, and as always, Nancy Grace, Mark Geragos, and Jeff Toobin break it down for us and mix it up.
Also, my exclusive journey with Supreme Court Justice Sonya Sotomayor. She went back to the grade school that helped make her what she is today that nurtured so many other poor but promising kids, but now is being closed down. We'll talk to her about that, but we begin tonight with breaking news.
Some solace, however small, for the family of Dianna Hanson. A short time ago, the Fresno County coroner said the 24-year-old woman died quickly after she was attacked by a 350-pound lion and that she didn't suffer. She died of a broken neck and other neck injuries the preliminary autopsy shows.
Hanson was an intern at the wildcat sanctuary where she died. She was working toward a certification that would have classified her for her dream job working at a zoo one day. Her family said she loved animals, especially big cats.
You're going to hear from them in just a moment.
This is the animal that attacked her. It's an African male lion whose was named -- it was called Cous Cous. He was shot, killed yesterday. He lived at the sanctuary his entire life since he was a cub. When he was 3 months old, he was on the "Ellen DeGeneres Show."
Hanson's father says that Cous Cous was one of his daughter's favorite cats at the sanctuary. And why Dianna Hanson was inside that enclosure with the animal yesterday is the focus of an investigation now under way.
Ted Rowlands joins me from outside the sanctuary.
I understand you have new information about how she died, Ted?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, and why she was in that enclosure. We're getting this from Dr. David Hadden, the coroner here in Fresno County. He says according to investigators, the victim here, Dianna Hanson, was in the main enclosure. And that separated all of these lions -- enclosures are separated into large enclosures and then smaller pens.
According to the coroner, he says investigators say that she was in the main enclosure cleaning, thinking that both lions were tucked away safely in their pens and that somehow, Cous Cous, the male lion, was able to apparently use his paw to open up the gates of the pen because it was either unlatched or was -- he was able to open it, and that is why he got out, and that is why she was in a position to be attacked.
So it wasn't a situation where she went into an area that was potentially dangerous. What she went into, according to the coroner, was an area that she thought was absolutely safe. She was cleaning this cage. He says, according to investigators, and this lion was able to escape somehow from his smaller enclosure.
COOPER: So horrific, Ted. You were given access to the lion enclosure where the attack took place. What struck you about it?
ROWLANDS: Well, a few things, Anderson. First of all, the property here is very expansive and the area between lions and cats here is extensive as well. Cous Cous shared his enclosure with a female lion, a 10-year-old, for the last three years, by the name of Pele. She was there during the attack, presumably in her den while the attack was happening, in the larger enclosure. She was there today and she was making -- like almost a barking noise and according to the handlers up here, this was a noise she does not normally make and was making it because of the stress that she felt of yesterday and not having her friend, I guess, for lack of a better term, Cous Cous no longer there.
COOPER: Wow. Ted, I appreciate the update. That's new information about her death.
Dianna Hanson's lifelong dream, as we said, was destroyed by the very creature she was devoted to protecting. Her family says it had been her goal since she was a child to work with big cats. Her internship at the Cat Haven Sanctuary was a -- was a step toward realizing her dream.
Paul Hanson, and Paul Hanson Jr., Dianna's father and brother, join me now.
First of all, Paul, my condolences to you and your family. I can't imagine what the last 24 hours have been like for you. How are -- how are you holding up?
PAUL HANSON, SR., FATHER OF DIANNA HANSON, KILLED BY LION: Well, I think that I'm still in shock right now. But I think it's good going to the media and telling Dianna's story has really helped me.
COOPER: Paul, tell me -- tell me what you want people to know about your daughter.
HANSON SR.: What I want to know about her? First off, I just got a report from the coroner's office that the mauling reports in the media yesterday and earlier today were not true. There was no mauling by the lion. It was more likely a quick suffocation and neck fracture. There was no blood and they think it was a quick death, followed by just some injuries by the lion that was probably just playing too hard.
And also, she was so happy. Her last two months there as an internship at Cat Haven was the happiest of her life. Her mother and I agree we had never seen her happier than the two months she's been there since January 2nd when we got there.
COOPER: Paul, I heard since she was, what, 7 years old, that she loved big cats?
HANSON SR.: Yes, about 7 years old, she just developed a fixation on tigers, especially tigers. And big cats in general. She used to tell everybody she was going to grow up and study Siberian snow tigers in Siberia. And then when she got older, in elementary school, every time we would go and see her -- her mother and I would go and see the parent/teacher conference, they would say, you know, she's a great artist. She's got some talent, but she draws the same subject over and over again, tigers.
And then when she went to college, she was a ski instructor for her part-time job on the weekends up at Western Washington University in Bellingham. And one day, she had a little boy sitting next to her in his ski lift chair when the ski lift was temporarily stopped. So she made conversation with him and asked his favorite animal, and he says, tigers, like my grandparents had.
And she knew his grandparents were right there in Bellingham so she tracked them down, wanted to know how they could have tigers and it turns out they have three tigers and a lion there just outside of city limits, and she volunteered to help work and take care of them. They were so impressed with her, they trained her and they would leave her there for weeks with these animals. And she would go into the cages and take care of them and feed them and maintain them.
She would go inside the cages and she'd invite us to come up and see them. And we'd see her and then she'd go in the cages. That always got me, her in the cage. That always scared me. I always had a bad premonition that some day that -- those animals could turn on her, but she was absolutely fearless. She was no more afraid of those lions and tigers than she was of a house cat. Just totally fearless and totally competent working with them in their cages.
COOPER: Paul. Paul, what do you think it was about these big cats that she loved from such a young age?
PAUL HANSON JR., SISTER WAS KILLED BY LION: I think there was just this sense of awe and a sense of awe and a sense of absolute power and beauty and mystery that are associated with them. And how her passion for that continued to evolve as she got older. And really dedicated herself, you know, her passion for these animals then transcending into work that could be done to save them and make sure we can still have wildlife in wild areas. COOPER: Paul, I understand you said that your daughter told you she wasn't allowed in the lion cage. Have you given -- been given any information as to what happened yesterday or why she was in there yesterday?
HANSON SR.: No, not yet. I just know that she gave me a tour of the place on January 3rd when I -- after we drove down from Seattle. She and I drove down together. That was the last time I saw her. And she gave me a tour of the place before I flew back to Seattle. And when she gave me the guided tour path that you take when you go through all the animal cages and enclosures there and when we go by the lion and tiger cage, she said these are the only cages we're not allowed to go in, the lion cage and the tiger cage.
And she was a little disappointed because she had done that for so long in Bellingham. That she was -- she said only the owner is allowed to go in these cages. So I was so shocked when I heard she was killed by the lion inside the lion cage because I couldn't figure out why she would be in there.
COOPER: Paul Ryan, did she ever talk about this lion in particular, Cous Cous?
HANSON JR.: Yes, she -- she absolutely adored Cous Cous and all of the animals that were there. You know, it was a lion that has been with the facility that they had had for many years. Had even taken it on TV. So she spoke very highly of that lion.
COOPER: Paul, does this -- does this change the way you view these animals?
HANSON SR.: No. Not at all. In fact, it makes me view them with more love and interest than ever before because I will always think of her now whenever I see a lion or a tiger or a big cat, because these were the loves of her life. And I will think of her every single time now I see one of those. And how much she would have enjoyed being there and working with them. No, it doesn't change anything.
COOPER: Listen, I appreciate both of you taking the time to let everybody get to know her better. And to get to know her passions and what she loved. And died doing what she loved.
Paul, thank you, and Paul Ryan, I wish you peace and strength in the days ahead.
HANSON JR.: Thank you.
HANSON SR.: Thanks for letting us tell her story to you.
COOPER: Well, fatal attacks like this are not common, they do happen, though. Twenty people including five children have been killed by big cats in the United States in the past 21 years according to one group that tracks the numbers.
Jack Hanna, director emeritus at the Columbia Zoo, joins me now. Jack, as we heard Ted Rowlands' report, this animal Cous Cous got into an area that was supposed to be secure. I just want to show our viewers the large enclosure where Dianna was and the smaller one where Cous Cous was.
What do you make of this? I mean, could the lion have actually opened the gate to get to her?
JACK HANNA, DIRECTOR EMERITUS, COLUMBIA ZOO: Well, Anderson, they're very powerful animals. If the lock had been left off or a chain off it, he could have pushed the latch up and got in there obviously.
But having watched it, Anderson, it just brings back so many memories about -- you know, it's -- it really is hard for me to watch that because I think I have told you before that we had a little 3- year-old boy back in 1972 got -- one of my lions took his arm off, and it was beyond horrific picking it up and taking it there being put back on the boy at the shoulder.
The point is, you know, and I appreciate what the father is saying. I can't describe what I feel right now. It's been that way for the last 48 hours, obviously. But again, Anderson, I understand what he's saying, the love, and what his daughter did, but the word fearless, Anderson, is a word that's very difficult for me to use because I have filmed these animals in the wild, a lion take down a 2,000 pound Cape buffalo in less than five seconds.
You have seen this yourself. You go to Africa quite a bit, and it's like, bam. And the word that I think I wish I had -- I wish I had known this young girl. She seems incredible. I would have loved to have had her at the zoo, as a matter of fact. But the word respect is the word we all have to use. You have to respect they're wild animals.
The word fearless is a word that's pretty difficult to use in our zoological world because if you're fearless, there's something -- there's no fear there, but you know the respect you have to have for the animal. You can call that fear, call it what you want to, but that's what I wish had happened.
Of course, this was an accident. She couldn't have that. Obviously she was in there. I don't know what happened, but obviously now that I know it's an accident, I can at least understand now what happened.
COOPER: Because even an animal that has been raised by humans from the time it was a cub as this animal was, and went on the "Ellen DeGeneres" show when it was a cub, they're hardwired. I mean, it's a lion, this is what lions do. They're hardwired to react.
HANNA: Right. I have had young lions on shows. I've had -- we still work with our cheetah, by the way. We continue to work with our cheetah. A cheetah is a different type of cat. We have two people on the animal. At the club in the zoo, just our example of -- the American Zoo and Aquarium Association certain code we have to live by. So the sanctuary is, by the way, a good sanctuary from what I've heard from a lot of people.
But again, one is an animal, six to eight months old, a tiger or a lion, no one enters that facility. Not one, not two, not 50 people. If the animal has to be looked at, then a veterinarian would tranquilize it, look at it, gives its physical and that type of thing. They're fed in -- you know, through different chutes, that type of thing.
So as of new standards in our zoological park, we don't go in there. That's been that way for years with the Club of Zoo. With large cats. Some of the sanctuaries do go in there like this gentleman to teach people about the animal, but you see what happened when this little 3-year-old boy that was my friend, put his arm through. I wasn't even there, by the way. How they got across, I don't know. It's none of my business. It happened. It was my fault, obviously, but the lion was so powerful, Anderson, it pulled the arm off the shoulder without even an indentation in the skin of the little boy.
This is the power that these animals have. It is -- it's a tragic thing that happened here. I just can't describe what my fears are for the people of the sanctuary and all these parents, and I understand what the man says. Every time, for now, when I see an African lion or tiger, I'm going to think of this young lady for the rest of my life as well.
COOPER: Yes. And, you know, it gives Paul, her father, some comfort that -- she wasn't in pain. That the coroner says that her death was quick. She died of a broken neck and other neck injuries. I guess that sort of surprised me. I would have thought there would have been -- I didn't realize that that's how lions attack.
HANNA: Yes, that's the basic way they do it in the wild. That's what they -- they'll start at the rear -- the back end, they chase -- that kind of a chase, but the first thing the cats will do, especially tigers and lions, that's the name of the game, is the neck. Because that's what happens. But at least I know now what happened other -- like what I said before, not knowing what happened, she had such a love for them, and such a passion for big cats. You know, maybe she thought she could go in there.
Now that I know it's an accident, then, you know, accidents happen. They will happen maybe again in a zoological park some day. That's what we deal with. Tens of millions of people go there.
But, Anderson, as you know, that African lion since 1978, we lost 60 percent of them in Africa. They were like rabbits when I first went there. I'm sure you've seen that.
HANNA: Today, we've lost 60 percent of the lions. The zoological world is not going to stop bringing lions. We're going to have them for people to understand them, love them, and hopefully save them.
COOPER: Well, Jack Hanna, I appreciate you being on. I'm sorry it's under these circumstances. But thanks for being with us.
HANNA: Thank you.
COOPER: Let me know what you think of all this. Follow me on Twitter @AndersonCooper.
Coming up next, my exclusive interview with Supreme Court Justice Sonya Sotomayor. I met with her today in her old neighborhood at the grade school that she says gave her a great start in life but won't be around for the next generation of kids like her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUSTICE SONYA SOTOMAYOR, U.S. SUPREME COURT: It was heart breaking. I can't even tell you. It's like closing not just a chapter of my life, but slamming a door on an entire history. Not just my history, but the countless students who have walked through these halls.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: We'll tell you why the school is closing and what she hopes to do about it.
Later, was this a happy couple or was Jodi Arias, as she claims, a virtual captive held by an abusive boyfriend? Jurors asking tough questions, new questions today in her trial casting doubt on her version of the relationship and ended with him dead and her on trial for her life.
Some stunning new details ahead.
COOPER: Crucial step today in the selection of a new Pope to succeed Benedict XVI. The last cardinal electors arriving today in Rome. All 115 now in place ready to go. They'll be casting ballots soon behind closed doors but have yet to set a date for the process for the papal conclave to begin.
Back home, in the United States, in local parishes, there is anger over the shutting down of parochial schools here in the United States. In New York alone, the New York Archdiocese, for example, they're shutting down two dozen schools including the Blessed Sacrament School in the Bronx.
In its time, which is now running out, that one school changed a lot of lives, including the life of one little neighborhood girl who grew up to be a Supreme Court justice, Justice Sonya Sotomayor. The Blessed Sacrament -- Sonya Sotomayor who went back there with me today.
COOPER (voice-over): U.S. Supreme Court Justice Sonya Sotomayor came back to Blessed Sacrament School in the Bronx because she wanted to highlight the importance of Catholic schools in her life and the life of kids growing up as she did.
SOTOMAYOR: Come here, sweetie. Come here.
COOPER (on camera): Would you have been able to become the person you are, in the position you are, without this school?
SOTOMAYOR: Doubtful. Would I and my brother have been able to resist the war of drugs in the surrounding schools? Who knows?
COOPER (voice-over): Like many of the kids here now, Sotomayor grew up poor, Puerto Rican, from the projects. She's now the highest ranking Latina in the nation.
(On camera): Your mom worked hard to send you here?
SOTOMAYOR: My mom worked six days a week most of her adult life to be able to afford to come here. And if it hadn't been for the generosity of the church, we would not have been able to afford this. But I think back then, they would have never thought of kicking either my brother or I out.
This is the worst.
COOPER (voice-over): But times have changed for the church and Blessed Sacrament is closing, one of 24 New York parochial schools to be shut this year, despite parishioners and parents' fight to save them.
(On camera): The church says look, we just don't have money to keep these schools going.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I find that somewhat ironic from a church that has so much money, frankly. I look at the Pope flying away in a helicopter to his seaside, you know, castle. I think one of the core missions of the church is to help the poor, to assist the needy. And to walk away from these kids and others, they have put money ahead of educating our children, which I think is a fundamental core tenet of the church.
SOTOMAYOR: I loved my years his here.
COOPER (voice-over): As a Supreme Court justice, Sotomayor won't go as far as some outraged parishioners, but she is sad to see this school shut its doors.
(On camera): Is your being here, is it a -- is it a protest in any way, or is it a statement?
SOTOMAYOR: No, I can't protest anymore, don't you know that?
COOPER: Yes. I do.
SOTOMAYOR: No, but it's a return to a place of importance to me. And a moment to share with kids who I know are suffering. COOPER (voice-over): In a classroom of kids, the suffering was clear. Amidst their tears, Sotomayor urged the kids to speak up, even as she defended the church's good intentions.
SOTOMAYOR: You know something, sweetie, I'm so glad that all of you took part in trying to save your school. Because you can't really sit back and let people do things to you. You have to get up and tell people what's important.
COOPER: The children and their parents did protest. They posted YouTube videos and raised money. Sotomayor herself was a donor, but it wasn't enough.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why haven't people looked at the videos that we made?
SOTOMAYOR: Because sometimes they don't know about them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They just think that it's just a bunch of kids who are trying to save a regular school?
SOTOMAYOR: I think they think that it's -- will be easy for you to get over. They don't understand that it's going to hurt you for a long, long time.
COOPER: School officials said they do understand the hurt but have no other choice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were not schools that were failing. Not when you looked at test scores, graduation rates, attendance. They were safe harbor for children and the families were very happy. It was an economic decision.
COOPER: Sotomayor still hopes this school may be saved, but she knows that is unlikely. Nationwide, 2,000 Catholic schools have closed in the past dozen years.
SOTOMAYOR: It is a breeding ground for leaders. What's going to happen to that feeder system? That's what I'm most worried about. Catholic schools traditionally have been the pathway out of poverty for generations of kids.
COOPER (on camera): And you were with all these closures that could change?
SOTOMAYOR: I know it will change. Don't worry it might change. It will change.
COOPER: Sotomayor says she hopes to go back to the school at least one more time before it finally shuts its doors for good.
As always, for more on this and other stories, you can go to our Web site CNN.com for more. Just ahead for us tonight, Senator Rand Paul's epic filibuster over the use of killer drones against Americans. We'll tell you how the talkathon ended and what the White House said to answer Senator Paul's life or death question.
Also, a top bin Laden lieutenant, his son-in-law is in New York City tonight. Not here for the night life. How he was caught and what happens next to him, when we continue.
COOPER: Just ahead on 360, day 30 in the Jodi Arias trial. More questions from the jurors and new signs they aren't buying her story. Coming up, our legal panel has a lot to work with.
COOPER: Welcome back. In "Raw Politics" tonight, the Senate has confirmed John Brennan as the new director of the CIA. The vote wasn't even close, 63-34, but the drama leading up to it, that was pretty epic.
In case you missed it, Senator Rand Paul led a nearly 13-hour filibuster on the Senate floor, holding the vote hostage until he got an answer to this questions about drone attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: I cannot sit at my desk quietly and let the president say that he will kill Americans on American soil who are not actively attacking a country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, Senator Paul wanted to know if President Obama had the authority to carry out targeted killings of Americans on U.S. soil. Earlier this week, Attorney General Eric Holder didn't entirely rule out the possibility of that kind of attack. In a letter today, he clarified his response.
CNN's Dana Bash was the first to get Senator Paul's reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Senator, it's literally three sentences long and he says that the answer to your question about, can Americans be killed on U.S. soil, and the answer is no. Are you satisfied?
PAUL: I'm quite happy with the answer, and I'm disappointed it took a month and a half and a root canal to get it, but we did get the answer, and that's what I have been asking all along. It really is what the Senate should be about.
BASH: So just to be clear, you're announcing right here on CNN that you are going to let John Brennan's nomination now go through? Maybe they could even hold a vote today?
PAUL: Yes, we'll hold it as soon as people want to now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: The Senate voted hours ago to confirm Brennan.
Chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash joins me now.
Dana, it's interesting. I mean, today, there are Senate Democrats who are happy with Senator Paul and quite a few Republican colleagues who aren't.
BASH: Absolutely. This really does expose a divide within the Republican Party when it comes to the so-called war on terror. And the divide does seem to be getting a little bit deeper, and Senator Paul, the fact that he was out there and he got support from some more, I would say, hawkish or mainstream Republicans, did infuriate people like John McCain and Lindsey Graham who came out and said, excuse me, why are we making this big deal questioning something we actually think that the president is doing right, which is using drones to get terror suspects?
But it really does also show that there's some Republicans who are up for re-election next year who are very concerned about getting on the wrong side of people in the conservative base, and many of those are civil libertarians. So just also exposes how tricky Republican Party politics are right now.
COOPER: It's also interesting, just because you don't see too many of these old-fashioned filibusters where people stand for a long time and talk. And part of the reason is got to be -- that it's just -- it's not easy. I want to play some of what Senator Paul had to say this morning about how he felt there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: Voice is recovering, and I think I lost a few pounds, so there's some advantages to not eating all day, although I was sneaking candy bars from the --
BASH: We saw.
PAUL: Yes, there's a candy drawer. And if you go to the candy drawer, you can sneak around and get a candy bar. But I see they caught me with half the candy bar in and half out of my mouth. My wife said, can't you chew with your mouth closed when you're on the floor?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Overall, what did he think of the experience? He seems kind of energized by it.
BASH: He's definitely energized by it. And he was actually -- I talked to him before he even realized, Anderson, that this had really blown up on Twitter the way it had because he was so focused on what he was doing on the Senate floor and then he went to bed at 2:00 in the morning.
He didn't really get caught up on it. He talked about, in fact, he said on the floor, one of the reasons why he didn't keep going, he stopped after midnight, was because nature called.
You know, he had that glass of water which was basically his only sustenance, but he was trying not to drink it because then he would had to leave the floor and his filibuster would be over.
But he also said that he was so surprised himself that he actually got the time on the Senate floor to wage this filibuster that he wore the wrong shoes. I mean, things that I guess you need to think about when you're a senator going to stand around on a marble floor for 12 hours.
So it really does remind you that this is something that is old fashioned, but it is something that takes a lot of endurance.
COOPER: Yes, sure does. Dana Bash, appreciate it. Thanks.
BASH: Thank you.
COOPER: Let's get caught up with some of the other stories we're following. Susan Hendricks has the "360 Bulletin" -- Susan.
SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, Osama Bin Laden's son-in-law who has served as an al Qaeda spokesman is in custody tonight in New York. White House and federal law enforcement officials say he was captured in Jordan this week and will appear in court tomorrow. A sealed indictment lays out the charges against him.
A major reversal by former President Bill Clinton in an op-ed published tonight by the "Washington Post," Clinton urges the Supreme Court to overturn the defense of marriage act, which he signed into law 17 years ago. He writes that he now believes the law is discriminatory. The court takes up the issue later this month.
And a 59-year-old man who spent 22 months in solitary confinement in a New Mexico County jail has settled his lawsuit for $15.5 million. You see him on the left. That's Steven Sliven after his arrest on a drunk driving charge in 2005. On the right is how he looked when he was released.
You have to see this one. Several South Florida beaches are closed to swimmers due to sharks in the water, lots of them, as you see. Thousands are migrating north. The waters really look like a shark superhighway, you can say -- Anderson.
COOPER: Amazing images. Thanks very much, Susan. Up next, jurors questioning a killer, Jodi Arias back on the stand yet again facing tough questions from the people who will decide her fate, the jurors themselves. We'll take you inside the courtroom.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Welcome back. Jodi Arias facing especially tough jury questions today. Nancy Grace, Mark Geragos and Jeff Toobin weigh in on today's developments ahead.
COOPER: "Crime and Punishment" now, a blockbuster day of juror questions in the Jodi Arias trial, and possible signs that the jury is simply just not buying her story. Her third version of events, by the way, that she killed her boyfriend, Travis Alexander, in self defense.
Killed him, you'll remember, just 2 minutes after photographing him right here, taking that picture in the shower. Alexander appeared relaxed, mellow, not looking like the rage filled monster Arias said she had no choice but to kill.
As you'll hear in a moment, our legal panel agrees on this. Any sympathy the jurors might have had for the defendant seems all but gone. As 360's Randi Kaye reports, you could hear it in their questions today.
RANDI KAYE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If she hadn't been caught in a web of lies, would Jodi Arias ever have come clean about killing Travis Alexander? Jurors wanted to know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you decide to tell the truth if you ever got arrested?
JODI ARIAS, ON TRIAL FOR MURDERING TRAVIS ALEXANDER: I honestly don't know the answer to that question.
KAYE: Why, they ask, did it take her so long to tell the truth? It wasn't until two years after the killing that she claimed self defense. First, she said she wasn't there then changed her story to two masked intruders. All her lying seems to have hit a nerve with the jury.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After all of the lies you have told, why should we believe you now?
ARIAS: Lying isn't typically something I just do. But the lies that I have told in this case are -- can be tied directly back to either protecting Travis' reputation.
KAYE: And what about Arias' experience with guns.
ARIAS: Never fired a gun, but I was relatively familiar with them.
KAYE: And even if she wasn't sure she had shot Alexander as she says, why not call 911 for help in case?
ARIAS: When I sort of came out of the fog, I realized, crap. Something bad had happened and I was scared to call any authority at that point.
KAYE (on camera): Right after she killed Alexander, Arias drove to Utah to visit another guy. The jury wanted to know how she could kiss another man just hours after shooting and stabbing her ex- boyfriend to death. She explained she had no choice. She had to show up to avoid suspicion.
(voice-over): And like every other day in court, the testimony eventually turned to the couple's sex life. The jury has listened to recordings of their phone sex, read their dirty text messages, even looked at naked pictures they took the day of the killing, but they wanted to know more.
If he had abused Arias in the past, as she claims, why did she go along with Alexander's sexual fantasies?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you were scared of what Travis was capable of doing, why would you ever let him tie you up?
ARIAS: When that occurred, he was in a very good mood, and again, they were -- they were loose enough to wiggle out of. So I wasn't like stuck there.
KAYE: And on the day she killed him --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was Travis tied up at any point on June 4, 2008?
KAYE: There were also more questions about Arias' memory lapses.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You remember dropping the knife and screaming, but you don't remember taking the gun or rope with you?
ARIAS: It goes blank after that. I don't remember putting the gun in the car. I don't remember putting the rope in the car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How can you say that you don't have memory issues when you can't remember how you stabbed him so many times and slashed his throat?
ARIAS: Well, I think that I have a good memory and June 4th is an anomaly for me. I don't think I have memory issues that are any different from another average person.
KAYE: One thing Arias may never forget are these pictures of Travis Alexander dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you agree that you came away from the June 4 incident rather unscathed while Travis suffered a gunshot and multiple stab wounds? You only had a bump on your head or bruise on your head, cuts or scrapes on your ankles and a possible shoulder injury?
ARIAS: As far as making comparison of physical injuries, him versus mine, yes, I would have to say that's a relatively accurate assessment.
COOPER: Randi joins us now. After the jury questions, her defense lawyer had more questions for her. Some focused on another woman in Travis Alexander's life. What did we learn ability that?
KAYE: Anderson, Arias' lawyer asked about this woman that Alexander was planning to take to Cancun on vacation, and she testified that Alexander showed her a picture of this woman and told her that God was sending him a message, that God wanted this woman to be his future wife.
Arias also pointed out that she and Alexander at this time were still having sex and that Alexander was trying to get her into a threesome at that same time. But what is key here is that Arias testified she wasn't jealous of this woman at all.
She said she didn't even want to be Mrs. Travis Alexander anymore, but remember, it speaks to motive because the prosecutor has painted her as a jealous stalker who killed Travis Alexander because he wasn't taking her to Cancun. He was taking this other woman.
COOPER: Randi, thanks very much. Joining us, again tonight, our legal panel, Nancy Grace from our sister network HLN, senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, and criminal defense attorney, Mark Geragos, co-author of upcoming book, "Mistrial, An Inside Look at How the Criminal Justice System Works and Sometimes Doesn't."
Nancy, last night, you said the questions were not largely in Jodi Arias' favor. How do you feel today?
NANCY GRACE, HOST, HLN'S "NANCY GRACE": Well, I feel that the tide is really turning, Anderson, against Jodi Arias because one of their big questions, and I wrote it down for you, Anderson, verbatim.
It says after all the lies you have told, why should we believe you now? And I think that is an incredible question and an incredible insight that you rarely get with a jury.
I mean, when I practiced law for all those years, I had one particular judge that would allow the jury to ask questions. Generally, you don't know what they're thinking, but that is a bombshell question -- Anderson.
COOPER: Yes. Mark, what did you think of today?
MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I just think it's devolved into kind of a circus of the absurd. I understand that that's from a defense standpoint, those are never good questions, but at the same time, there are 250. You don't know, is that one person who has written 100 or is that the whole thing?
Remember, when Nancy says the tide is turning, it wasn't exactly like this was a slam dunk for the defense to start off with. This is somebody who is self admitted, I have done nothing but lie. I stabbed him 27 times and put a gun to his head. So it was an uphill battle to begin with.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: What I don't understand is what the defense is trying to do because now we're in re-cross. And he's asking her questions that are sort of like lower- level Oprah, like Ricki Lake level questions. Like, were you in love? Was it unconditional love? What about your relationship with this guy?
GRACE: I take issue with that.
TOOBIN: What's the point? I mean, why does it help the defense in any way?
GRACE: The point is credibility. And while you're all sitting around tables with your PhDs, these are regular working people, and it matters to them if she's lied to every man she's been with. If she left him rotting --
GERAGOS: Did you get a PhD?
GRACE: -- and jumped on top of another man within 24 hours. It may not mean anything to you too with your JDs --
GERAGOS: JD, that's appropriate.
TOOBIN: But why does it help the defense?
GRACE: I happen to have an additional degree maybe you don't have.
GERAGOS: I don't know if you heard Jeff. He was asking why the defense was doing it.
GRACE: I did hear him. I did hear him.
GERAGOS: Then you question becomes completely inexplicable.
GRACE: Yes, I hear it. No, what I mean is the defense is trying their best to clear up these questions from the jury. And his questions, the defense positive question, and just for your information, the prosecution has commenced. It's not the defense anymore, Mark, but their questions are trying to clarify what the jury has asked.
GERAGOS: I know it's the prosecution. I know that he's trying to clarify at a certain point --
GRACE: Because I told you.
GERAGOS: Sit down because enough is enough.
COOPER: What do you think -- more than 200 questions. Do you feel like -- I mean, the sheer number of questions is kind of staggering.
GERAGOS: Yes, it is staggering. It's one of the things I think shows the absurdity of letting this become an interactive Facebook or tweeting kind of a trial. That's what it's become.
TOOBIN: I draw exactly the opposite conclusion, which shows this jury is paying attention. They're asking relevant questions. They're exploring the key issues in the case, and I think that's what we want in jurors, people focusing on the important parts of the case.
GERAGOS: When does this become in the coliseum with the thumbs up or the thumbs down? At a certain point, you just let the 12 impartial fact finders start to try this case with hundreds of questions?
Look, if you're the defense lawyer, you love it. If you're the prosecution, you love it. If you're somebody who is looking at the criminal justice system, doesn't this give you some sort of pause that this becomes kind of an interactive, internet feeding frenzy?
GRACE: You mean, in other words, you don't want a genuine, a legitimate search for the truth? It's irritating you that the jury is asking these questions. As I was trying to say, I agree with Toobin on this. Because even though the questions may not make sense to us four, sometimes we may wonder, why are they asking that? They have their reasons. They are the ultimate fact finder, not Mark Geragos.
COOPER: They keep asking about her memory. Clearly, they want to know more about what she actually remembers, because you know, they came up with these questions about, well, you say you have a fine memory most of the time, but surrounding this event, there's this fog.
GRACE: You're right, Anderson --
COOPER: Let me just play two of those questions regarding her memory and get your reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How is it possible you remember such details from those days if you had a foggy memory?
ARIAS: The fog or the confusion only begins when he starts screaming or if there's a fear that maybe there's going to be tension or some kind of escalation or anger or violence. And then certain incidents such as the physical pain is crystallized in my mind so that sticks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there anyone else who knows about your memory issues?
ARIAS: Well, I mean, again, I think I have a really excellent memory --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Answer the question as stated.
ARIAS: It's hard because I don't think I have memory issues.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, then that's your answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Nancy, what do you make of that? She says she has no memory issues yet she has no memory of stabbing this man.
GRACE: Anderson, remember, her defense is she dropped the digital camera as she was taking sexy photos of him in the shower. He became enraged and wanted to kill her. That's her story and she took off running with him on her heels. She went into his closet, climbed on top of something, reached back and found a 25-caliber weapon that nobody else knew about.
She says also that he had a holster for it, but when police searched, they found no ammunition, no weapon, no holster, nothing. I mean, her story doesn't hold together and they're testing her memory on that. And suddenly, she can't recall any of the critical facts around the time of the murder.
GERAGOS: The only problem with that is that they're going to explain all of that when they the defense calls the next witness. They're going to have somebody just like prosecutors do all the time who is going to come up there and say that this is standard operating procedure with a battered woman.
That their memory can be great, book ended around the incident itself, and that they go into some sort of trauma. That is how they're going to explain it. That is what the jury is going to be told.
TOOBIN: One reason we have a jury system --
GRACE: You're right.
TOOBIN: The jury system can apply common sense. If you have a memory problem that is purely convenient, that you don't remember stuff that is bad for you, but you remember stuff that's good for you legally --
COOPER: And you never told anybody about your memory problem.
TOOBIN: You can call all the experts you want.
GERAGOS: The expert will get up there. I have had more than a couple trials where the expert will get up and I had it where the prosecution will call because there's been cross-examination on somebody, why do you remember this now? Why didn't you tell anybody? And they're going to say, that is perfectly logical and rational for a psychiatric standpoint if you're suffering from battered woman's syndrome.
COOPER: We'll leave it there. Nancy Grace, Mark Geragos, Jeff Toobin, thank you all. Quite a conversation.
Coming up, the "Ridiculist," find out who's on it tonight. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Time now for the "Ridiculist." Tonight, we have yet another laughing news anchor story. We really cannot get enough of these. In Oklahoma, a woman was arrested on drug charges. And while she was searched during booking, it turns out she was carrying a gun and bags of meth on her person, more like inside her person, really more like inside her person.
I'm going to let WGN and Chicago take the story from there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS ROSS, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: It was a five-shot revolver. It was loaded. And as she turned it around, she saw more plastic baggies, larger plastic baggies wedged in the crack of her buttocks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The caboose pistol. Everybody has one. What are you getting all worked up over?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you just say -- did you just say caboose pistol.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know someone who could hide a machine gun in there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Big story, daylight savings time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Yes. Also daylight savings time is coming. You have to spring forward to the next story. News anchors have to be prepared for anything. Sometimes it's a very concealed weapon. And as we showed you the other night, sometimes it's a cat trying to lose weight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Polly is a 13-year-old cat who likes the outdoors and other physical activities. But with encouragement from her owner and weekly visits to the pet resort, she's managed to lose one pound in six months. Stay with us, everybody. We've got a lot more to come.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And sometimes it's a comedian telling you about the time her dog got stoned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like the time Doug got into a bag of pot brownies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then the doctor just started laughing and he's like, my God, this dog is tripping. I swear to God, this is what he looked like and -- look what happened there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Then there are times when the subject matter, you know, just roll it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The next time you pass gas, make sure no police are around. A man in West Virginia faced assault charges after police say he passed gas near the officer. He was arrested for DUI, according to police. I can't even get through this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They said it was, quote, very odorous and created -- and created contact of an insulting or provoking nature. See, that wasn't even right. To put that story in there was wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It was wrong, yet, so right. It's the news business. And let's face it news happens in all areas of life, even the sensitive ones. We'll be right back.
COOPER: That's it for us. We'll see you again one hour from now another edition of "360" at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. Thanks very much for watching. "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT" starts now.