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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
New Details on the Boston Marathon Bombing Investigation
Aired April 24, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Erin, thanks very much.
Good evening, everyone. We have significant new developments tonight. Breaking news on many front. There's a lot to tell you about here and overseas. Investigators not just scrambling to learn who turned the older bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev toward radical Islam and who if anyone trained him in bomb-making.
They are also grappling here at home with the grim possibility, just a possibility for now, that they dropped the ball. The possibility that not one but two potential red flags, one to the FBI and now one to the CIA, were mistakenly downplayed or otherwise mishandled. And opportunities were missed that might have prevented this tragedy. So tonight we've got new reporting on that.
We also have reporting as well on a jihadist in Russia's Dagestan region whose video was on Tamerlan's YouTube channel. A guy who goes by Abu Dujana who met with foreigners during the time that Tamerlan was in the region and say local police helped train them in bomb- making. Significance of it we're looking into.
We also know that Secretary of State Kerry suspects an overseas connection. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: We just had a young person who went to Russia and Chechnya who blew people up in Boston. So he didn't stay where he went, but he learned something where he went and he came back with a willingness to kill people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: There is also the shadowy figure known as Misha, a Russian name for Michael, who may have helped radicalized the older brother. Also -- that was happening here in the United States. Also, according to Russian state news, we are just learning that the parents will be flying to Boston tomorrow and that the FBI has interviewed them and others already back in Russia.
Now the mother who left the country several years ago with a shoplifting charge hanging over her, so unclear how that might figure into her traveling back here. Will she actually be arrested and face charges here? We don't know. We are learning more about how the two brothers lived and crucially where they may have gotten their money. The money that helped them carry out this operation. Many, many new details to tell you about, as well as this. Boylston Street where I'm standing, which has been a crime scene for a week and a half, became a city street again.
There is a memorial along Copley Square, we're standing right next to it now. The scars obviously remaining. But this is no longer an open wound. People all day have been coming to Boylston Street to pay their respects, flowers have been left.
Earlier today, more than 4,000 people gathered to remember fallen MIT police officer Sean Collier murdered as the suspects fled last Thursday. Vice President Biden calling the bombing suspect, quote, "Two twisted, perverted, cowardly knockoff jihadis."
So what did federal authorities know about the pair? And you're listening to James Taylor who performed at the memorial service. What did federal authorities know about the two brothers, especially the older one, who, as you know, traveled to Russia last year and was on the radar of Russian intelligence a year before that.
We have breaking news tonight from Joe Johns and our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger.
Joe, we knew the FBI was approached by the Russians in early 2011 to check out the older brother, Tamerlan, saying he was interested in or flirting with extremism. Now you're hearing the CIA was also approached later that year by the Russians. What happened?
JOE JOHNS, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's true, Anderson. We're told the CIA basically got the same information the FBI got. But the CIA says it essentially put this guy's name up as a candidate for a terror database watch list system.
CIA, we understand, also shared information with other agencies and departments, departments we understand to be the State Department, Homeland Security, FBI, the National Counterterrorism Center. And gave out a bunch of, say, spellings of his name and two possible dates of birth, Anderson.
COOPER: Gloria, what was the quality of that information coming from the Russians?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, my intelligence sources say that the quality of information was actually quite thin. They say generally the Russians are very formal, and more irregular with the information they share. They're not -- they don't expect them to share their sources with them. And then when the officials -- the investigators here went back to the Russians, I was told, quote, "They did not get a case report back to us."
COOPER: So, Joe, do we know at this point what piqued the Russians' interest in the first place? I mean, if Tamerlan was over here, how did the Russians know that he was interested in radical Islam or Jihadism?
JOHNS: We have a little bit on that, Anderson, and it's pretty much based on the FBI's narrative. Russia apparently had information that Tsarnaev was planning to travel there and he was going to join up with some unspecified underground groups. And they said they made the request because he was a follower of radical Islam, a strong believer, that he changed drastically since 2010.
What we don't know is why Russian officials didn't take him away when he was there. He was in the region for six months.
COOPER: And also, Joe, just so I'm clear, as far as we know, did any Russian officials actually talk to him while he was there, or follow him? And on -- when he returned, as far as we know, no U.S. officials followed up with him, correct?
JOHNS: That's right. I don't know about Russia and I have asked a lot of those questions. I don't know what happened when he was there, but when he came back here, it's my understanding that the FBI essentially had already checked him out. They didn't have anything on him at all. And so they pretty much let him go as a free man.
COOPER: So, Gloria, you've got some information, I understand, about the kinds of questions that investigators are now asking.
BORGER: That's right.
COOPER: About the brothers and their family members. What have you learned?
BORGER: Yes, they're asking a -- they're asking a lot of questions about the family members. As you reported earlier, the parents are now coming to this country. One question investigators want to know about is asylum. I mean, these parents got asylum in the United States, then returned to Russia from a place they had been persecuted while their children were still in their teens. So there's lots of questions about why you would do that.
They want to know about the wife. They have questions about what she knew. Did she know anything? How do you hide something like this from your spouse? They want to know where they got their income. They want to know more about what the Russians knew, quite honestly. They understand it should have been a red flag for them. So there are -- there are lots of issues that they have left to uncover. And people on Capitol Hill as well as people within the intelligence agencies want to know the answers to these questions.
COOPER: Yes. All right. Gloria, appreciate your reporting. Joe, as well, working your sources.
Now the breaking news on the international end of the investigation. As we said, a lot happening there, as well. Nick Paton Walsh and Nic Robertson are both in Russia's Dagestan region. They both join me now.
Nic, FBI agents we understand talking to the Tsarnaev parents over the past two days. Do we know any details about what the FBI asked them, Nic Robertson, or what the parents said?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We know that the mother has said through her lawyer that the Americans were, quote, "kind and polite." We don't know the substance of the conversation. It's been taking place in the FSB, the Internal Security Headquarters, here in the central of the city. A place so -- under wraps, if you will, you're not allowed to film it.
So we haven't heard detail of what's going on inside, only that report coming from the state news agency. That, the family, both parents will -- I mean, it's 4:00 a.m. in the morning here now, will in a matter of hours be leaving to go to the United States to help with the investigation -- Anderson.
COOPER: And Nick Paton Walsh, Tamerlan posted videos of this militant, Abu Dujana, on his YouTube channel. Do we know of any actual connection between the two, any meetings, anything?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We don't know if the two men have actually met. We just do know there is a substantial amount of potential overlap between them. Abu Dujana having been here as sort of reasonably well-known figure head, in the kind of the radical underground here, running a group of rebels and militants who did training and even learned how to make explosives in the woods throughout all of last year, the same year, the first six months of which we also know that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was in fact in Makhachkala as well.
COOPER: And you've talked to the Dagestani police, Nick Paton Walsh, and they've said that actually foreigners did attend those militant training camps run by Abu Dujana's group?
WALSH: Absolutely. The police chief we spoke to was clear that -- there were Arab men and Turkish men had been there. He said it was possible men of American descent had also attended. But he was giving a sort of knowing look when asked to go into further detail. He also said that some men, in fact, who were Dagestani or local by birth or origin but had gone on to other countries to get citizenship or the right to live there had also come back, too. I'm not quite sure what he was trying to refer to there as well -- Anderson.
COOPER: Nic Robertson, we know he spent time in Dagestan, Tamerlan. And I know -- I mean, how big are the gaps of time that we do not know about? About his whereabouts? Over the course of that six months?
ROBERTSON: They're really pretty huge at the moment. And we don't have a lot of concrete specifics on where he was at any given time. I talked to the lady who runs the store right across the road just a few yards out of his front door. And she told me, look, he was here late spring, early summer for about a month, month and a half. He was coming in the store regularly, came in with his father sometimes. Didn't come in with any friends, didn't buy alcohol, didn't buy tobacco, kind of in line with his sort of hard-core Islamist views. But even she didn't really have an idea of who he might have been hanging out with. And outside of that and the aunt saying that he went to Chechnya for a couple of days, it's really kind of wide open. And this is a city of a half million people and it would be easy to make the kind of connections that people are concerned that he might have made -- Anderson.
COOPER: And, again, the question I just can't understand is -- this is a guy who doesn't have a job, apparently doesn't have money, has an infant child, has a wife, and he takes off for six months? I mean, was the wife OK with that? I mean, he leaves his wife and child behind, they don't have any -- he doesn't have any income. And he's able to afford to spend six months there. Clearly a lot we still need to find out about.
Nic -- both Nicks, I appreciate your reporting.
A lot more to talk about now, globally, and also of course, what's happening here locally. Joining us now is "CBS This Morning" senior correspondent John Miller, he's a former -- also joining us the FBI assistant director Tom Fuentes. Former Massachusetts Homeland Security adviser Juliette Kayyem. She's currently a "Boston Globe" columnist and former CIA officer, Bob Baer.
John Miller, let me start with you. This news of the Russians twice expressed concerns to the U.S. about the elder brother to the CIA, also to the FBI, and this word that the CIA wanted to place the elder suspect on a watch list back in 2011. What do you make of it?
JOHN MILLER, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, "CBS THIS MORNING": Well, it actually to me sounds fairly routine. I mean, the first request to the FBI was a foreign law enforcement cooperation request, which is pretty common. We send them to the FSB, the FSB sends them to the FBI.
They wanted them essentially to cover leads, to do an investigation into his background and possible ties on U.S. soil. The request to the CIA, which is legally barred from investigations on U.S. soil, was to ask if they had any leads and concerning overseas intelligence. And when you have somebody who is the subject of basically an assessment, is this person constituting a threat either on U.S. soil or to the Russians, they're gathering information. That's one of the -- one of the people you would place in TIDE, and that's the Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment.
Basically it's the white pages of terrorism. Anybody who has ever come up in anything to a certain criteria can go in TIDE but that's not a watch list. You know, TIDE doesn't ring any bells. It's not the terrorist watch list, it's not the no-fly list. It's just a master list of people who surfaced in terrorism investigation in subjects across 16 intelligence agencies.
COOPER: Bob Baer, you're a former CIA officer. What in the last 24 hours has sort of interested you most about where this investigation is? ROBERT BAER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it's the Russians coming twice to the U.S. government. You know, they never show all of their cards. They obviously don't monitor the American Web or activities in Boston. So they had something very specific on the ground in Chechnya or Dagestan. I'd be very interested to know what that was, what group he was associated with, was he going to training camps. And I completely agree, there is no explanation for going to Dagestan for six months. If you've ever been there, it's not a kind of place you'd take vacation.
You know, it's a place where you would run into militants and somebody like him who had converted himself to militant Islam would go out and look for them. What do the Russians know, who did he see? Remember, Zawahiri was there, was arrested. Zacarias Moussaoui was there. A lot of foreigners show up there for training. But more than that they go there for military experience. And my question is that where he got his, if in fact he did have some.
COOPER: Right. And, Tom Fuentes, formerly with the FBI, your U.S. sources tell CNN that the information the Russians provided was extremely thin. But that said, I mean, the Russians were right, this guy apparently was up to no good. How did he slip through the cracks?
TOM FUENTES, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: Well, we still don't know what no good he was up to. You know, he's reported, he's investigated here to the extent he can be. The placement on the list that John Miller mentioned, TIDE, has 500,000 people on that list. So obviously, nobody is going to be following them around and putting in all of the stops for people on that list. It's just something later you can check against.
But we don't know what we don't know about what happened in Russia and what he was up to in Russia. I would like to add that they alert us apparently twice, the U.S., that they're suspicious of him and they want him looked at. He shows up on their soil and spends six months there. And if he was meeting with militant groups, it's pretty clear that the Russians were monitoring those groups and he should have, in that case, wandered into his surveillance and ended up either arrested or ended up killed when the Russians did their raid in December on Abu Dujana.
So if he's meeting with these militants, why don't the Russians have him showing up in their surveillances and report that back to us of, guess what, why don't they arrest him, why do they let him come back to the U.S. and tell us that's who he met with. So I think there is a lot of unanswered questions. But we don't know exactly what he was doing there, and we may not know if the Russians don't tell us.
COOPER: And Juliette, the thing I keep coming back to, maybe I'm nuts for just focusing on this, but I don't get how any married couple, the husband just says to the wife, I'm leaving for -- to Russia for six months to -- I don't know, rediscover my roots or whatever. And I'm going to leave you, I'm going to leave my infant baby, and we don't have jobs and we don't have any money.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Right. So a number of newspapers, including the "Boston Globe," reported today that their means were very, very slim. I mean, they apparently just had no way to survive day to day. So his departure is probably tied, as we have now confirmed, of his growing sort of radicalization and sort of conservatism within the home. That he required his wife to wear traditional Islamic clothing, that the relationship became much more superior, inferior, a traditional relationship. And so that may be his ability to leave.
And it's that -- picking up on, you know, what John and Tom were saying, it may seem very confusing that there is a lot of databases. The truth is, there are a lot of databases because there's a lot of agencies that are collecting information depending on their subject matter expertise. The Coast Guard, for example, picks up intel from the waterways. You would expect that. They feed it into these big systems.
And the question is, investigations by the FBI never made it to that higher level. And it seems like every other intelligence agency was relying on the FBI's.
COOPER: John Miller, we knew it was a possibility before, but now we're just learning from Congressman Dutch Ruppersberger that are remote control device, similar to those used to control a toy car, was used to set off the bombs last week. Does that jive with what we know so far about the timeline? What you've been able to find out? I mean how -- how close the brothers were when the bombs went off?
MILLER: Well, that's a command detonation system which gives you your options, depending on what your command piece is. If your command piece is a key fob from -- the same kind of thing you'd use to unlock your car. You've got to be in a pretty close distance to do that. Obviously, you don't want to be too close to your bomb when you set it off. On the other hand, if it's a system controlled by a cellular phone, you can be a great distance away.
What they're talking about is the kind of stuff you'd get at a hobby shop to control a remote controlled car or a plane. And if you looked at the photos that leaked out of the bomb components, you see those batteries. Those batteries are a specialty piece. They're rechargeable, they're very common in that kind of toy environment.
So if what the senator is saying is correct, that all fits together. What I've been told from people up there is, the two main charges, so that's the pressure cooker bomb at the first location and the second location on race day, that makes sense as remote control detonation because you're going to want to put them in, get away, and do that while you're there. If you do it on a fuse, you run a lot of risk that somebody is going to pick it up, move it or discover it.
On the other hand, they had all these homemade pipe bombs, these things they were throwing at police during the chase. What we've seen there is an interesting mix, because some of those were prepared for remote control detonation, some of them were prepared with fuses. And really interestingly, some of them were prepared for both. And that kind of redundant system, I asked, why would you do that? And they said, you know, the big bombs at the race, we want those remote controlled.
You want your options with the smaller pipe bombs because if you're going to put it somewhere and set it off, you want a remote detonation. If you're being chased by the cops, you may just want to light that fuse and throw it on a fairly short fuse. And that's what we saw happening during that big shootout.
It really demonstrates, Anderson, a decent level of sophistication to have multiple, multiple initiation systems in those bombs. It shows somebody put a lot of thought into this. The other odd thing is that they used a mix of different explosive powders. That's probably more an effect of them not wanting to buy any one thing in such a large amount that it would have been a tip-off that they were making something big.
COOPER: Tom, you know I've talked about this before. A lot of question about whether the brothers could have built and tested these bombs on their own. Could they have learned it from the -- from the Internet or a magazine? You say we can't rule anything out at this point because I've talked to Bob Baer about this. He's convinced they had to have received some -- or one of them, at least, had to received some sort of instruction, whether that was overseas or here at home. True, Tom? What's your perspective?
FUENTES: My perspective is to not call something impossible that's already occurred. And I confirmed this with retired Royal Canadian Mountain Police officers, who are friends of mine. I contacted them this morning to again refresh my memory on the investigation of the Toronto 18. And in that investigation, they determined that Zachariah Amara, the main ringleader, taught himself how to make the explosive device.
I've seen the video where he tested it in his living room with his little baby crawling around five feet from a toaster. And he makes that video to use as a recruiting video to go convince others how capable he is. And in the video, he dials his cell phone and detonates it and the toaster goes poof in the middle of the living room, thankfully not killing the little baby or burning down the building.
So it later comes up in trial. He pleads not guilty. During the course of the trial in Canada in 2009, he changes his plea to guilty. So that video is actually not necessary to be introduced as evidence, because he changed his plea. Now later, just to point out, it becomes an undercover operation by the RCMP. They introduced an undercover officer. When the case was appealed to the Canada Supreme Court, the judges point out that the officer was introduced later.
That he made that bomb on his own before the officer was even introduced to the group and he made the video showing his capability. So I'm just saying, it's been done. This guy in Canada did it.
COOPER: Bob Baer, just very quickly, you still think it's likely that this -- that there was some instruction.
BAER: The totality. There's too many bombs involved there, too sophisticated. There was some sort of instruction or a lot of practice. You simply don't, you know, make the detonators, the fuses, the command detonators and the totality of this is what makes me wonder whether somebody went to Dagestan or somewhere and watched or got to test.
Again, I talked to experts all day long and they all agree, its currently serving officers, that they have just never seen so many bombs go off without some sort of practice. And probably mentoring. But, of course, I don't know that. It's just -- it's just a general sense of EOD experts.
COOPER: Right. As Tom said, authorities certainly are not ruling anything out at this point, nor should they.
John, Tom, Juliet, Bob, appreciate all of your perspective and reporting. Thanks very much.
Follow me on Twitter. Let me know what you think of the investigation, Boylston Street reopening. Join me at @Andersoncooper.
Up next, more on how the older suspect became more devout than allegedly radicalized. We'll look at the man known as Misha, the Russian name for Michael, who may have played a key role in that process. Also later his widow, the woman and the child who Tamerlan left for six months last year to travel to Russia, as Gloria Borger mentioned earlier, investigators want to know what her role was, if she had any role in any of this. What did she know and when? We'll be right back.
COOPER: Welcome back. Again our breaking news tonight, two warnings from Russian intelligence about the older bombing suspect. First to the FBI then after the bureau have cleared him to the CIA. An intelligence official telling CNN that the CIA did recommend him for inclusion in a terrorism related database which he was not -- which he was. He was not, however, put on the no-fly list.
Relatives say he had at least one dark influence here at home here in the area, a shadowy figure known as Misha, which is a Russian name for Michael.
Wolf Blitzer talks about it with the suspect's former brother-in- law who says he was introduced to Misha a couple of times. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELMIRZA KHOZHGOV, BOMBING SUSPECTS' FORMER BROTHER-IN-LAW: I'm not sure if he inspired or taught him to be radical Islamist, but he surely did have influence and did teach him things that would make Tamerlan, you know, go away from the people and go more into the religion. And maybe, maybe that's possible that he suggested to him some radical ideas.
I just know what Tamerlan told me that he quit boxing and music because Misha was, you know, teaching him that it's not good in Islam to do those things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Want to dig deeper now to who this Misha is. Brian Todd has been -- has been investigating this, working up a profile. He joins us now. Do we know anything about this guy?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We really know very little, Anderson. We don't know the actual full name of Misha. The brother- in-law of the two suspects was asked about this. He said he doesn't know the full name. The uncle, Ruslan Tsarni, who's interviewed by CNN over the weekend, did not know much about him. But he did say that he thinks he brainwashed Tamerlan Tsarnaev.
COOPER: But now the uncle has admitted he hasn't seen Tamerlan --
TODD: That's right.
COOPER: Either brother for years. I think back --
COOPER: So how does he know anything?
TODD: This comes from discussions with the family that the uncle has had in recent days.
COOPER: So he's had family members -- it's been recent days.
TODD: That's right. That's right.
TODD: Including the brother-in-law. I mean, the former brother- in-law is a pretty good source for some of this information, the gentleman who Wolf Blitzer talked to, who as you heard, he said he met him twice. That Tamerlan introduced him to him and to other news organizations, this brother-in-law has said that at one point the father came home one night and saw this Misha speaking to his son and was fairly upset and said, what is he doing here, let's get him out of here.
So it apparently did cause some family tension. We have tried to find this person searching databases, cross referencing our sources, social media. And we found -- we did pop up a name. But when we searched the name and when we searched addresses, went to those addresses, called those numbers, and e-mailed this one name, this person, we could not find him. One person fitting that description e- mailed me back today saying it's not me, I'm not Armenian and I'm not Muslim. So there are two people that may fit the same name, we're still tracking.
COOPER: Do we -- I mean, this seems -- I'm skeptical about this just because --
TODD: Yes, sure.
COOPER: It just seems like there is this shadowy figure.
COOPER: But do we know -- are law enforcement looking or interested in this person? Because that would be the real test if law enforcement is taking this seriously.
TODD: It certainly would be. And what they're telling us right now is no comment.
TODD: Now if he was nonexistent or they just didn't have any, I guess, credence to this whole thing, they would probably say no, to just stop going down that road. They haven't said anything. And maybe they're trying to find out more about him themselves.
I think the fact that the brother-in-law says that he met him twice, was introduced to him by Tamerlan Tsarnaev may give a little bit more meat to it. But again, we have to dig a lot deeper into this.
COOPER: Is there any known affiliation between this alleged Misha and any local mosques in the region? Because you would think he would have attended a mosque.
COOPER: And whether or not they wanted to say this or not, I don't know.
TODD: I have been hounding officials at that mosque where the two brothers attended, the Islamic Society and Boston Mosque in Cambridge. Both yesterday and today, they have told me, no, we don't know anybody by that name, we don't know anybody by that description. He would not -- he would not have fit in here. That's what they've told me.
And one of the people there that told me today, hey, we're looking for him, too. We want to find him just as much as you guys do. And we're looking for him. So, again, that may be some spin.
TODD: But right now they're saying no affiliation with them.
COOPER: Right. All right. Brian Rodd, appreciate the reporting. Not an easy job on that one.
There is new information tonight about the widow, Katie Russell. We've been talking to people who know her, what they are saying. Next, we'll tell you that.
Also ahead, a unique perspective from someone who knew not only one of the suspects, but also friends with Krystle Campbell, one of the people who was killed in the bombings. We'll be right back.
COOPER: Welcome back. We are learning more tonight about Tamerlan Tsarnaev's widow, Katie Russell. She has said through her attorneys that she had no idea what her husband was allegedly planning. That she is shocked and devastated.
Now people who know Katie are speaking out. CNN's Erin McPike joins me now live from North Kingstown, Rhode Island. Erin, you're in the town where Katherine Russell's family lives. What more are you finding out about what she is like?
ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, earlier today, we went to the Honey Dew Doughnut shop where Katherine worked when she was in high school. And I spoke to her boss and he told me she was very dependable, very likeable, good with the money he said and like a daughter to him.
I also talked to one of her co-workers there, Robyn Aldrich and she said that Katie is getting a very unfair shake from the media and even from some people in the town. This is what she had to say to me a little bit earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCPIKE: What are people saying?
ROBYN ALDRICH, FORMER CO-WORKER: Just -- saying that she doesn't have a mind of her own, and that she is a terrorist's wife. And OK, I don't know. She married the wrong person or -- I don't think his actions should, you know, be taken out on her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: What else did you learn about Katie Russell today?
MCPIKE: Well, Anderson, a lot of people say she was likeable and did well in school. She wasn't perfect. When she was 18 years old, she was actually arrested for shoplifting and I have that arrest report right here, now she shoplifted about $67 worth of items from Old Navy, handed it back, and she got out of that pretty easily. But overall, people seem to really like her. What we found out from talking to a lot of people today in North Kingstown.
COOPER: You also spoke to Katherine Russell's attorney. What did they tell you? They have said publicly that she is cooperating, but has she actually sat down and been interviewed by the FBI?
MCPIKE: Well, Anderson, I spoke to her attorney for a few minutes earlier this afternoon, and she would not tell me anything. We actually asked some sensitive questions about some other material that we have been hearing about and really they wouldn't confirm or deny anything.
So it's very possible that she has sat down with the FBI. They just won't tell us. What I can also tell you, though, Anderson, is that right here around her house, there was a big presence this morning, a lot of media, a lot of federal agents. And that presence is largely gone tonight and has been gone for a couple of hours now.
COOPER: All right, appreciate the reporting. Again, just trying to piece together pieces of this puzzle. Erin McPike, thanks. So many people here in Boston are hurt or know someone who was hurt or killed.
But tonight, we want to introduce you to someone who has a very unique perspective on the attack, a man who knew not only one of the suspects in middle school, but also one of the victims.
Marvin Salazar knew Dzhokhar Tsarnaev in middle school. They played soccer. They walked home from school together. He also, Marvin also knew Krystle Campbell, the 29-year-old woman who died in the attack.
For two years, they worked together at a local restaurant. And Marvin Salazar joins me now. Marvin, thanks very much for being with us. I can't imagine what you have been going through over the last nine days. I mean, to know two people involved in this. First of all, tell me about Krystle Campbell. What was she like?
MARVIN SALAZAR, KNEW BOMBING SUSPECT AND VICTIM: Krystle Campbell was definitely one of my favorite restaurant managers. I've been working in restaurants for over five years and I've never met a manager who worked harder than Krystle and kept such a beautiful face. She had a smile everywhere she went. Any time you needed to talk to her, she would talk to you.
COOPER: That's one of the things her mom said. She smiled.
SALAZAR: That smile, very special. I mean -- we had a lot of memories together, working on the harbor islands, and I mean, working on those islands is tough. We had to do so much hard work and she was the one person who put together and made sure everything got done the right way.
COOPER: I know you went to her wake to pay your respects. It must have been nice to see the outpouring of people. The line stretched down the block. There were so many people who loved her.
SALAZAR: It was very hard. I mean, I hadn't left my house until that day. I've been home. I haven't been able to really think or much -- do anything, really. It's hard to think something like this could happen in Boston. It's a senseless tragedy.
COOPER: And then to also know the suspect, Dzhokhar. You knew him in middle school. You played soccer together. What was he like back then?
SALAZAR: I knew Dzhokhar, and he was a great kid. He always was good with his schoolwork. He played soccer, he was a great kid. I mean, always had a good smile on his face, wasn't outspoken. He was mostly just a normal guy, like me, like I'm shy when I'm meeting new people. But as long as you took the time to get to know him, he would grow on you and --
COOPER: Did you know his older brother at all?
SALAZAR: I didn't know -- I didn't know his brother myself, but I knew people that knew him. And he was a great guy too. He had his family and wife and kid.
COOPER: How do you deal with knowing two people? I mean, one is the victim of this attack and one is the person accused of perpetrating it?
SALAZAR: I mean, it's hard. I can't say I defend anything he has done or his brother has done. It's tragic. I mean, wouldn't be expecting this to happen especially under these circumstances to know someone that was affected by it. I mean, just looking over here behind us, we got the hotel, and I've got a knot in my stomach, thinking my uncle works in that restaurant and it could have been him. It could have been anyone else around here.
COOPER: Well, I appreciate you taking the time to talk with us. Thank you very much. Sorry for all you're going through. You're also very close to a friend of Krystle's.
SALAZAR: Karen Rants.
COOPER: Karen Rants who was badly wounded in the attack as well.
SALAZAR: In the hospital right now.
COOPER: How is she doing?
SALAZAR: She is doing better. I know she has kept her head high and so --
COOPER: How extensive are her injuries, do you know?
SALAZAR: Well, I don't really want to talk about the injuries.
SALAZAR: But I do want to put out there that if anyone can make donations to the give forward fund to Karen Rants, it would be very much appreciated.
COOPER: And you're hoping -- she has obviously medical expenses and is going to have medical expenses for a long time to come.
SALAZAR: Yes. She is going to have to live with this for the rest of her life. I mean, it's -- it's hard, especially thinking that it's happened in your own hometown.
COOPER: Did she work also with Krystle?
SALAZAR: Yes, she worked at the Summer Shack. She was one of the assistants of the general managers there. COOPER: Well, we're going to put the web site address, you just mentioned on our web site at ac360.com. So anyone who wants to donate to the fund that has been set up, you can go to ac360.com, the link on our web site, it's a very long e-mail address, but you find it on ac360.com. I wish my best to your friend and we'll continue to follow you and her story.
SALAZAR: Thank you.
COOPER: Just ahead, we have more breaking news. We have new details about how the dead bombing suspect may have paid for the terror plot.
Also ahead today, today's moving memorial service for MIT Campus Police Officer, Sean Collier, who was just 26 years old, killed in a patrol car. Vice President Biden gave the eulogy and James Taylor performed. We'll share some of the moving images. We'll be right back.
COOPER: Late developments in the bombing investigation. Earlier, we reported the Russian state news agency saying that the suspects' two parents would be flying to Boston to cooperate with investigators.
Now we learn there seems to have been a change in who exactly is coming. Nick Paton Walsh broke this story. He joins us now. Nick, what are you hearing?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): I just spoke to their representative, a human rights activist, she was clear with me saying that to her understanding, it will be the father alone traveling, and he will travel half tomorrow, which I took to mean not through Thursday, but at some point during Friday.
We're now into the early morning hours of Thursday morning here, Anderson. I don't know if the change has any reflection at all of how the mother feels returning to the United States. But certainly the father has always said to me that he wants to return to perhaps be involved in the burial, and provide assistance to Dzhokhar who when I last spoke to him, maintains his complete innocence.
COOPER: Well, Nick, do we know if this had anything to do with the mother could face charges, that she skipped out on charges of shoplifting and never showed up, and so there is basically still a warrant out for her arrest?
WALSH: That wasn't made clear to me by the representative. But that's entirely possible, and does fit with a lot of the background chatter we have been hearing here, that she may not have gone back to the United States in the past for that reason. She may have come here related to those accusations as well.
So, yes, that certainly would make sense, Anderson. It's hard to tell, reporting from the news agency here, you would think they would put accurate information in -- there is also a lot of misinformation and inaccurate information passed around the last few days, several women who turned out to be incorrect, reports of the father's car being seen at the airport, which turned out to be completely false -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Nick, I appreciate the update. There is yet more breaking news. Gloria Borger and John Miller joining me once again for that and also senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin are joining me. Jeffrey, the mother had come here, could she have been arrested?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely. I think the -- they certainly would have had every right to and I expect they would have. A lot of what's going to go on now is a negotiation. Neither parent has a right to see their son.
If the father comes back tomorrow as expected, the authorities could well say to him, you want to talk to your son. We'll let you talk to him. Talk to us first. We have a lot of questions for you.
In addition, anything he says to his son can be monitored by the authorities. There is no privilege between a father and son. It's not like an attorney or a client. So you can be sure that if they do let him see his son, they will be monitoring that conversation very closely.
COOPER: That's very interesting. Gloria, you've got some breaking news about how the plot may have been financed. What have you learned?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, investigators are looking into the possibility, Anderson, that Tamerlan helped finance this plot by selling drugs. The investigators believe that the older brother was dealing drugs as a source of income. I caution you that one of our sources described it as a working theory.
But it is something they're investigating. I mean, we know he had other sources of income, as we have pointed out earlier in the show. For example, his wife worked, the family also received some welfare benefits until 2012. But they are -- they're really looking into this drug link and, again, this is about the older brother, not about the younger brother. We do not believe.
COOPER: Do you know what kind of drugs?
BORGER: I -- I was not told. We just know, quote, "drug sales." And let me clarify that the officials we spoke to had no information regarding the younger brother on this.
COOPER: OK, John, what do you make of this? I mean, it is unclear how much money the suspects would have needed to pull off this plot. But it's also unclear just how they were making money, you know, to live, if you're talking about buying a pressure cooker, material for shrapnel, not likely a lot of money. What do you make of this report? JOHN MILLER, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, "CBS THIS MORNING": I think that this is a very inexpensive terrorism plot. I mean, the bombs -- the pressure cooker bombs, you could knock those out for 75 bucks, your main expense is going to be the pressure cooker, the smokeless black powder isn't going to be a lot of money, nor the rest of the components.
I think the larger question that Gloria and others raise here is not did they need money to finance the hardware of the plot. I think the question is, did you need money to finance a six-month trip to Russia, how were you going to sustain yourself there, how is your family going to sustain here?
And that's where I think you have to look behind the curtain to say, you know, what was the financial backing during all of that time? This was never a family that had a lot of money. The parents here received assistance from the State of Massachusetts. Some of that assistance covered the two kids.
Until their income reached the point they weren't qualified anymore. So it's not like they were rolling in dough. The younger brother, we spoke to people on campus who said they used marijuana with him, and he occasionally sold marijuana. But, again, we're not talking about -- we're not talking about a lot of money here.
COOPER: Right. John, what else in the last 24 hours has particularly interested you? I mean, what has jumped out at you? You have experience with the FBI before being a reporter.
MILLER: You know, I -- I keep coming back to the same couple of things and that trip to Russia is critical. If you look at it in this case, you say, well, he went to visit family, he went to, you know, go back home to find his roots. Six months is a long time. So now when you pull back from this case and you say what does it mean in context?
You look at the Najibullah Zazi case, the guy from the outskirts of Denver who planned to put 16 backpack bombs in the New York subway. But before he did that, he traveled to Pakistan and was there for five or six months where he got training in how to make a bomb.
Now you move forward to Shahzad. Here is a guy who lived in Connecticut. He had a job, a house, two kids, and he traveled to Pakistan and was there for about six months, and he came back, trained to make a massive truck bomb that he put in Times Square with gasoline, propane, a pressure cooker bomb and ammonium nitrate.
So he did a mixed bag using every aspect of his training. So when you see a case where you've got a bombing and a crowded public event, following the al Qaeda narrative, you have to wonder, why did he go away for six months, and was that where he either trained, built the test bombs and/or fired them off to make sure they would function when he got home. That's not fact. Those are questions, but it also fits in contextually with past history.
COOPER: Yes. John Miller, it's great to have you on the show again, Gloria, Jeff, as well. At the top of the program, we showed a portion of the memorial service that was held earlier today for slain MIT Police Officer Sean Collier.
A remarkable outpouring, James Taylor performed, as you will see, thousands of people today getting a little stronger.
COOPER: Thousands of people gathered on the MIT Campus today for a memorial, honoring the Campus Police Officer Sean Collier. Authorities believe that Collier was shot by the bombing suspects as he sat in his patrol car Thursday night.
Sean collier was just 27 years old. James Taylor performed his song "Shower the People" at the memorial. We're going to listen to that performance now as we show some of the sights from a city living up to the slogan, "Boston Strong."
Things are going to be much better and they already are. That does it for this edition of 360. We'll be back one hour from now, another live edition of 360 here from Boston. Thanks for watching. "PIERS MORGAN LIVE" is up next right after this short break.