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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
New Bridge Scandal Documents Revealed; Mother Of Cursing Two- Year-Old Boy In Video Speaks Out; No Clean Water 300,000 People In West Virginia; Target: Data Breach Worse Than Thought; Hawaii Plane Crash Caught On Tape; Neuroscientist Studying Brain Scans Discovers He Has Brain Of A Psychopath; Gone To Pot: Cannabis Tours Cash In
Aired January 10, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Don, thanks very much.
Good evening, everyone.
Tonight, breaking news, what a document pileup reveals about the New Jersey traffic tie-up that has Governor Chris Christie on the defensive. Early indications the e-mails between officials show they were actively trying to hide a political motive.
Also tonight, what happens when a researcher studying the brains of psychopathic killers finds out that he has got the brain of a psychopath?
Later, forget about that fun ship cruise our gone to pot series takes you inside Colorado's booming marijuana tourism business where the only rule is, don't Bogart the joint.
We begin with the bridge traffic scandal and the breaking news about the political motives for the whole mess. There's a new stack of documents out that suggests some of the players knew they were inflicting pain and took steps to shield themselves from any blowback. The documents come from the state assembly committee that's investigating the affair. More than 2,000 pages of e-mails, letters and other correspondence, a lot to go through.
No smoking gun right now, perhaps, but clear indications at this point that Chris Christie's top appointee to the agency as well as another Christie appointee were aware that closing several lanes of traffic leading to the George Washington bridge could cause political fallout.
They also reveal that state officials were made aware that the traffic was potentially affecting public safety. Again, though, no smoking gun, like the one that touched off the scandal in the first place. Christie aide Bridget Kelly's e-mail to port authority David Wildstein saying time for some traffic problem at Fort Lee. His reply got it.
Wildstein is gone from his job take the fifth. When asked about the affair, Governor Christie fired Kelly yesterday as you may know. She may soon be called to give testimony. And that could be interesting of course.
A source telling CNN's Erin McPike quote "it's widely held in Trenton that this, we need the traffic mess wasn't her order." It is the question of whose order was it?
More now on Kelly and the scandal and what the documents have to say from Joe Johns who's been carefully weighed through them -- Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, there's a question already about whether there was an attempt to conceal what was going on from public discussion. An e-mail exchanges dated September 13th, Patrick Foy who is port authority official essentially terminated the lane closures. And he said he is going to get to the bottom of whatever happened. Bill Baroni, a Christie appointed port authority official who resigned in December over the controversy replied to the e-mail saying he was on his way to office to discuss and there could be no public discourse on the controversy. In response Foy wrote Bill that's precisely the problem. There's been no public discourse on this.
Now, this paper trail also shows at least one other member of Governor Christie's senior staff who hasn't been named publicly was forwarded an e-mail detailing the extent of the problems on the bridge. However, we don't know whether that staffer actually read that document, really no indication she was involved in any political retribution, Anderson.
COOPER: This appears to be -- go ahead, Joe.
JOHNS: No, no. The other thing I just wanted to mention is, you know, the mayor question is a huge question, Anderson. And I know a lot of people have been interested in that, the mayor of Fort Lee, telling people he was being blamed for the problem with the bridge. And he wrote that the port authority police were blaming him.
COOPER: So, I mean, it does appear to be a political vendetta against the mayor of Fort Lee, the Democrat would endorsed Christie's opponent in last year's gubernatorial election. You've actually found an interesting document related to the mayor talking about who was being blamed for the traffic nightmare.
JOHNS: Yes. Well, this was actually a letter that was written by the mayor. And he wrote it to the top port authority official Bill Baroni I had talked about earlier who's already resigned. And the mayor was sort of drawing this conclusion on his own that this was being done to make him look bad. He said there were punitive overtones associated with it. So the mayor obviously had some real concerns about that, Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Joe, wading through a lot of documents today.
Joe, thanks very much.
I want to continue the discussion right now. Joining us now to talk about the growing implications of all these, senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin and senior political analyst David Gergen.
Jeff, no smoking gun. There are still a lot of questions. Is it going to take immunity from say the U.S. attorney for someone like Bridget Kelly to actually testify? JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely. I think, you know, the action here was really going to shift to someone named Paul Fishman who's probably not a familiar name to most people. He's the U.S. attorney in New Jersey. And he's going to have to make the decision. Does he give immunity to the two key figures at this point, Kelly and Wildstein? Because they're the ones who can explain what went on here, who ordered this bridge, you know, these lanes shut down? How did this all happen?
You know, documents themselves don't explain themselves by and large. You need human beings to explain what they mean and they're the key figures. They're the ones who can say if Christie was involved or who was involved. And it looks like, certainly for Wildstein and probably for Kelly as well, they're not going to speak unless they get immunity.
COOPER: What's involved for the U.S. attorney to consider immunity?
TOOBIN: Well, it's really up to him. He has no legal barrier to it. But he has to make a judgment in good faith, in good conscience, that this is relevant to a criminal investigation. And that's not a simple question. Because for all that this is politically controversial, it's not clear what laws you could say might have been broken here. He can't give immunity --
COOPER: You don't see evidence of a federal crime?
TOOBIN: I don't. I don't obviously have access to everything that the U.S. attorney will have access to. But unless he can say this is relevant to a federal criminal investigation, he can't give immunity. That's a pretty low bar, relevant to an investigation.
But I don't know if they're there yet. And that's the judgment that Fishman is going to have to make. And that's going to be a critical one to determining whether we'll learn from the key figures what they knew and when they knew it.
COOPER: David, it certainly seems like this is going to drag out for awhile. What does that mean politically for the governor? I mean, in the immediate future he's supposed to be hitting the road next week to help raise money for Republican candidates.
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Sure. Well, I think as Jeffrey's comments suggest this will go on. As we say in the business, this story has legs. And that's not good news for Governor Christie. It just is going to further penetrate the public consciousness. If it were a two-day story it would go away, it would be much for a better shape. It appears to be a two or three or four- week story depending on the investigation. Legislative inquiries, you get the press trying to see if there are other examples of quote "bullying." So the story does have -- I think does have legs. And that is going to be difficult for him.
But I would say this, Anderson. The way he's handled it, and John King made this a standard, remember, two or three days ago, the way his first 24 to 48 hours, he's handled it pretty well. I think he stood up and was contrite the way he should be. He apologized the way he should. He fired people the way he should. And so far there is no smoking gun.
So I think absent some new evidence that is contrary to what we know now, he's going to ride it out as governor. I think that much is pretty clear tonight. What is unclear is on his political campaign for the presidency, he is definitely taken a hit. Is it above the water line or below the water line? We don't know. He's going to be out looking for donors. Today, Stanley Truckenmiller, a very big hedge fund person in New York and major philanthropist, came out swinging for Christie. Thought that he was even more convinced he should be president.
GERGEN: Well, you know, it's important for Chris Christie to keep that Wall Street support. It could be very helpful to him in the long run. So I don't think we know enough yet about the long term in terms of the presidential. But we do know this is very close to the water line. We just don't know if it's above or below.
COOPER: Jeff, what do you think? You the other night when this in the heat of the moment when this was all breaking you, were saying you thought Chris Christie was done no matter what.
TOOBIN: I still think this is very very bad for his presidential ambitions. I think David's right that if we don't learn anything more, he's going to survive as governor. If he were really implicated, if the documents said he had somehow ordered this lane closure, I really think he would not be governor for very much longer. And there doesn't appear to be any threat of that.
But you know, this out there, as the major story that people know about him, outside of New Jersey except for maybe his performance during hurricane Sandy, it's a very bad thing. The best thing you can say is that he didn't know some of his top aides were engaged in this sort of political vendetta. That's not exactly a letter of recommendation. And for anyone to say, this convinces them that he should be president, I think that's kind of absurd. Maybe it doesn't disqualify him, but the idea that this is somehow a positive seems pretty crazy.
GERGEN: Anderson, the interesting thing is that Republicans for awhile now have been really licking their chops that if Hillary Clinton were the nominee on the democratic side in '16 they could throw Benghazi at her and really push it home. Now the Democrats are going to feel, you go with Benghazi, we'll go with the bridge and we think we'll beat you.
COOPER: Right. Well, we'll see.
David Gergen, appreciate it. Jeff Toobin, still more documents to go through, it's fascinating.
More now on the woman everyone wants to hear from, Bridget Ann Kelly. Now, until this week only New Jersey political junkies knew her name. Now it's rush hour to find out more about her.
The answer tonight from Erin McPike.
ERIN MCPIKE, CNN GENERAL ASSIGNMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The divorced mother of four worked for Chris Christie since 2010 and was appointed his deputy chief of staff in April. About five months later she sent a career-ending message time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee. The e-mail certainly seems incriminating. But those who know Kelly say they doubt the dedicated staffer could have orchestrated this on her own.
CHARLES STILE, POLITICAL COLUMNIST, THE RECORD: I think a lot of people find it hard to believe that she was acting as a rogue political operative conducting this operation regarding the bridge solely by herself.
MCPIKE: Here in New Jersey, Bridget Ann Kelly has been a staple of Republican politics for more than a decade. She began as a legislative aide for Republican assemblyman David Russo and eventually rose to become his chief of staff in 2002. She joined the Christie camp as director of legislative affairs and again rose through the ranks to become deputy chief of staff in just three years.
STILE: She was more of a liaison, one that kind of worked behind the scenes with the authorities in the legislature and a taskmaster, somebody who got the job done, but not as a political operative.
MCPIKE: The infamous September bridge closures referenced in her messages affected emergency vehicles as well as local commerce, and snarled the city of Fort Lee in what appears to be a petty way to punish fort lee's mayor for not supporting Governor Christie's re- election.
No one has seen any sign of Kelly at a Ramsey, New Jersey home. And the governor's office scrubbed her name from the web site this morning.
Do people feel badly for her no now?
STILE: I think there are some. I think people are waiting to find out more information before they make any judgment about it.
MCPIKE: Erin McPike, CNN, Trenton, New Jersey.
COOPER: Let's talk about it on twitter @andersoncooper. Tweet us using #ac360.
Up next the mother of that cursing toddler has been called every name in the book. Now she's answering the people who say she's a bad mom. We'll talk about that.
And later, late developments in the chemical spill that left hundreds of thousands of people with toxic tap water. Details ahead.
COOPER: There are major new developments tonight in a story that has generated more attention and more outrage in more ways than just about anything we've seen in a long time. For the first time we're hearing from the mother of that Omaha, Nebraska toddler who's seen in diapers on camera repeated obscenities being hurled at him with grownups off camera egging him on. And just to refresh your memory, here's a small sample. We're we've blurred the toddler's face.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Say bitch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's why you can't fight. Say "you're a bitch."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what hood you from?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: A friend of the boy's uncle made the radio posted it online. The Omaha police officers union reposted it to highlight what they call the cycle of violence and thuggery that the community faces. Outrage followed at the parent child abuse, as well as, the what was called the exploitation of a 2-year-old for someone's cheap entertainment and say some critics by the police association to make what might or might not be a legitimate point in what they see as a racially inflammatory way.
As we mentioned, for the first time the child's mother is speaking out. Talking to Dave Roberts, reporter at CNN affiliated keTV. Because she's a minor, she s 16, we're concealing her identity and bleeping out her name from his report.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were not aware about the video because they had to clean diaper, the house was clean. And like they said, kids cuss. Every kid does it. So he's a smart little boy. And all the cussing he did, he doesn't do that unless somebody -- the person that told him to do that, my son doesn't cuss like that. I don't allow it.
DAVE ROBERTS, KETV REPORTER (Voice-over): The 16-year-old mom says a friend of her brother filmed the video while she was in another room.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was wrong for doing it, posting the video of him and got us into a situation. That video was not -- it wasn't me. It was a person that came to my house and recorded it. So for everybody that thinks I'm a bad mother I'm not. I'm a good mother to my son. I teach him a lot. He's very smart.
ROBERTS: On Wednesday, child protective services placed both (bleep) and her son in protective custody. It's not the first time the state stepped in. In June the department of health and human services started monitoring the family in response to a neglect case. Four months later, someone shot a (bleep) we were there. One of the bullets grazed the foot of the (bleep) 2-year-old boy.
After the October drive by the family moved here with her mother. On December 16th, police raided a party at their home, searching for a shooting suspect. Our cameras rolled as police took 15 people into custody. Officers ended up arresting (bleep) mother on weapons related charges after finding five guns in the house. Now, after a viral video, the state will relocate the family again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They didn't come because of the video. They really came because of the gang violence and everything that happened with us.
ROBERTS: Currently (bleep) is not living with her son but gets to see him. And she hopes what people see online doesn't haunt her family forever.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It hurts. It does.
COOPER: That was David Roberts reporting.
Now, continuing the conversation, now with Sergeant John Wells, president of the Omaha police officers association, the local police union which reposted the video, also legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Sunny Hostin.
Sunny, let's start out with you. You say it was wrong for them to post this video. Why?
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It was. I mean, I think that it certainly may have been well intentioned. But the identity of the child, Anderson, wasn't protected. I think it was exploitive of the child. And I think it also perpetrated stereotypes.
I mean, when I looked at this video as a former federal prosecutor, someone who has tried child abuse cases, I clearly saw a case of child abuse, verbal abuse. The child is not even dressed appropriately. The child is being badgered by adults. Yet in posting the video, I looked at the web site and I quote they said we don't see anything in this video that is blatantly illegal. That is really shocking to me.
And I think what was so profound for me, Anderson, is you know my background. My mother got pregnant when she was 17. I grew up in the South Bronx. I was surrounded by violence. I was surrounded by drugs. I was surrounded by alcohol. And I didn't grow up to be a thug.
So, to label this child a thug I think really is exploitive. Again just pushes these stereotypes. It was just amazing to me.
COOPER: Sergeant Wells, what about that? Obviously you've received criticism for this. You labeled it from a local thug's facebook page when it was posted. Do you stand by the posting?
SGT. JOHN WELLS, PRESIDENT, OMAHA POLICE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION: Absolutely. The only exploitation going on here was by the person that made this video that taped this child apparently for their own amusement. To be clear we never called the child a thug. We said that there is a thug-like culture, the thuggery, that culture of violent crime that continues and goes on that, this could be a glimpse into that. That in order to educate people on exactly what's going on on the streets, and give them that unfiltered view, we really have to show some things that sometimes shock people and create some really strong emotions.
As far as the child, his face, you know, that video was already public. It was already on the internet. We simply reposted it. As soon as it was made private we blurred the child's face. We're not the ones that posted it. The person that decided to take this and put this child through and demonstrate this terrible behavior is the one that did this.
And, you know, let's be clear here. As far as the child abuse, you know, Nebraska statutes? I agree it rises to the level of abuse. But again, you have to have a proper that files a case and a jury that convict them. And apparently with the law in the state of Nebraska the way it is, that's not the case. Maybe that needs to be revisited. Absolutely, I agree that this could be construed as abuse.
HOSTIN: But Sergeant, in posting this, you or whoever wrote on your web site, said that there was nothing illegal, blatantly illegal, that was found. And so, in my view, isn't this videotape evidence of a crime? Why not then rather than posting it, take it, use it as an investigative tool, find this child and do the right thing and protect the child? You're supposed to protect and serve, not exploit.
I don't understand how you're sort of just walking away from it backpedalling from it and saying, you know, I didn't post it first. They posted it. There was something maybe illegal. But this is something that I decided to do. I mean, I guess that doesn't make sense. And again, I've always been supportive of law enforcement. I believe I was someone that was involved in law enforcement as a federal prosecutor, but this type of thing is just inexcusable.
WELLS: And I disagree with that because again my role is to represent the over 1750 professional police officers in Omaha and again, to protecting and serving the citizen of Omaha. That as soon as we learned of this video, we passed it onto our youth services child victim unit who investigated it, there was an ongoing investigation. And quite frankly, it's my strong opinion that had we not posted this video, this child would not have been removed from the home. That the child being struck by gun fire, that gang members, known gang members being pulled out of a house after a drive-by shooting and illegal firearms being found in the residence and the grandmother being charged as a felon in possession of firearms, if that wasn't enough to remove this child I certainly don't know what was. So this video, in our opinion, by posting this potentially saved this child from that environment.
COOPER: Sonny, do you believe public pressure made that happen faster? I mean, and he said they did turn it over to the proper authorities. Did public pressure maybe force them to act quicker than they would have otherwise?
HOSTIN: Listen, I always think it's important to talk about these issues. I always think it's important to highlight these issues. And so, certainly perhaps it may have made things work a little bit more quickly. But at I think the expense of exploiting a young child.
COOPER: We've got to leave it there.
But obviously, the one thing everybody can agree on is that where everybody hopes this child and this family gets the help they clearly need this mother, 16-year-old mother in particular.
Sonny, Sergeant Wells, appreciate both you being on.
Thank you very much.
WELLS: Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: Well coming up in the hour ahead, hundreds of thousands of people in West Virginia are being told they should not use their water for anything, anything except flushing their toilets because of a chemical leak. We've got a live update on that.
Also ahead, we are going to talk to a neuroscientist who got the shock of his life when his brain scan showed he has the brain of a psychopath. We'll also show you a test you can do to see if you have psychopathic tendencies. We've all taken the test. It's pretty fascinating stuff.
I'll be right back.
COOPER: For 300,000 people in West Virginia, (INAUDIBLE), its water water everywhere but not a drop to drink. A chemical leak got into the water supply. Now authorities are saying don't drink it, don't brush your teeth with the water, don't cook with it even, don't even bath in it until the situation that sorted out, people are being told they can flush their toilets but that is about it.
Senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins me from Charleston, West Virginia with the latest.
This is unbelievable. How dangerous is this chemical if people are exposed to it?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So Anderson, we know that if you're exposed to this chemical undiluted, it's harmful if swallowed. It's an irritant to your eyes and to your skin. Well, what we don't know is how dangerous it is when it's diluted. And there's no question it's very diluted in this situation. It's gone through the river. It has gone to the water system.
You know, there has been a case of a couple of hospitalizations, around five people who were nauseous and vomiting. But we're told by health officials that the people, the illnesses were only minor. COOPER: So, I mean, hundreds of thousands of people are potentially could be affected by this. What are the public health officials actually doing to clean the water for these people?
COHEN: Well, what they're doing is they're actually measuring how much of this chemical is in the water. And they say that the amount is decreasing and that's a good thing. So they say that once it gets below a certain level that the centers for disease control says that they can, you know, open back up the lines and allow people to use the water. So there may be a little tiny bit of this chemical left in the water, but they said that actually that expert tell them that's safe. But it's not going to happen really soon. It's going to be days before folks here have water again, Anderson.
COOPER: The company that's responsible for this, what do they have to say?
COHEN: You know, what they have to say is look, we're trying our hardest to clean this up. We're cooperating. But it's interesting, because, you know, the governor of West Virginia told me hey, they haven't been so cooperative. First of all, they're supposed to report the spill to a spill line. There's a phone number dedicated to reporting spills of which they didn't do. And then when the state stepped in, he said they weren't very cooperative and the state had to product them. That was the word he used, they had to prod the company to work with them.
So there are some different accounts here. The company says they've been cooperative but the governor says they sure haven't been cooperative.
COOPER: That's unbelievable. They didn't even call this help line. Obviously bears more looking into.
There is a lot more happening tonight.
Susan Hendricks has a 360 bulletin -- Susan.
SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the data breach at Target was apparently worse than first reported by the retailer. Target now says up to 70 million customers had their names, addresses, phone numbers or e-mail addresses hacked just after Thanksgiving. That was discovered as part of the investigation into the 40 million people who had their payment information stolen.
In Hawaii, a plane crash survivor shares amazing video of the ordeal. The plane quickly took on water when it crashed into the ocean off the coast of Malaki last month. Eight people survived and one person died, the director of Hawaii's Department of Health who verified President Obama's birth certificate.
In Pennsylvania, the search is on for the suspect linked to a road rage killing last Saturday. Authorities say 28-year-old Timothy Davidson made several 911 calls saying he was being chased by an angry driver before he was shot multiple times on Interstate 81 outside of Harrisburg.
And a federal judge has ruled a Renoir painting bought for $7 at a flea market, but valued up to $100,000 must be returned to the Baltimore Museum of Art where it was stolen from in 1951 -- Anderson.
COOPER: Wow, fascinating. Susan, thanks very much.
Just ahead, I'm going to talk to a researcher who's found out he has the brain of a psychopath. His brain scans look the same as serial killers. Imagine learning that. We'll show how you can take a test, which shows kind of psychopathic tendencies in people. It's a fascinating test to talk.
Also ahead, now that retail pot shops are open in Colorado, cannabis tours are cashing in. Our Randi Kaye somehow got herself assigned to the story, her report coming up.
COOPER: Welcome back. Tonight a story I found really fascinating. James Fallon is a neuroscientist who spent his career studying psychopaths, examining their character traits and also looking actually at their brains, inside their brains. One day by accident he learned that his own brain scan matched patterns found in known psychopaths. Not sure what I would do if I found out if I had the brain of a psychopath.
But Fallon wrote a book about it called "The Psychopath Inside." His story is really remarkable. It turns out his family tree has more than its share of murderers. Now to be clear, Fallon himself has not killed anyone. He is a professor of psychiatry and human behavior at University of California Irvine.
He has a theory about why having the brain of a psychopath has not landed him in prison. I spoke to him earlier.
COOPER: So this is amazing. You're looking at scans of murderers, of schizophrenics, normal brain scans, PET scans and your own brain scan. You discover that in your own brain it is the same kind of brain as a psychopath.
JAMES FALLON, AUTHOR, "THE PSYCHOPATH INSIDE": Yes. It was like the worst case because all those areas of the brain that I had decided by looking at these that were involved in the psychopathic personality, I had all of them. And it was completely turned off. It had to do with emotional regulation.
COOPER: So you can actually see in a brain scan if somebody is a psychopath?
FALLON: Not really. What you can see are changes that are consistent with traits. I can look at different brain scans and say that person's got a language problem, that person has got a problem with their visual system or sense of space. You can see traits. COOPER: Traits of a psychopath that are clear to you that you think you have are what?
FALLON: Well, it's a very poor sense of morality, first of all. Like for me and for people who are psychopaths they can have a sense of ethics, the rules of behavior. But actually the deep morality, what we consider morality is not there.
COOPER: So psychopath, I mean, do you have a sense of empathy?
FALLON: I have a sense of what's called cognitive empathy.
COOPER: So rationally you --
FALLON: I understand when somebody is in pain, but what I don't have so much of is emotional empathy. So I have what would be more like sympathy. I'm involved in a lot of charitable sorts of endeavors. I've always been. But actually connecting with somebody emotionally, it's tough to be close to me, you know, to be married to me or to be really close because it's not there.
COOPER: So is there a hopeful aspect to all this? That having identified this you can change behaviour or what's the take away for you?
FALLON: Well, the first thing, the knowledge, I found out I was completely wrong about the science, which was a bitter pill to swallow because I had thought everything was driven by genetics, biology. I didn't think nurture had anything to do with it. Once I realized because of the genes I have that if you're brought up in a very nurturing environment you can offset the biology.
COOPER: So you may have genes for this, you may have these areas of the brain which aren't developed and stuff. But because of the way you were brought up, the foundation that your family gave you, you don't act out on these behaviors?
FALLON: Yes. We just found out in the past two years that some these genes that were kind of the warrior genes that put you at risk if abused early on, if you're treated with love and not abandoned or anything like that it has an opposite effect. It kind of washes all the negatives away. You still have some traits, but you don't the full-blown psychopathy. So I think I was saved by a nurturing environment and a very loving extended family. My mother saw something early on, which she finally told me last year something wasn't right.
COOPER: Really? She identified that early on?
FALLON: Yes, she told me. She started telling me things and I was really surprised. She said she never told anyone. I was heading in a dark direction. I realized a lot of this kind of happy talk around very gregarious sort of stuff, I'm always on the make. Not sexually or trying to get money, but I'm always trying to get people into my world even if it's for 5 minutes. COOPER: I'm convinced -- I find this whole topic of psychopaths really interesting. I'm convinced there's a lot more people out there who are psychopaths than we realize. Particularly successful people, accomplished people, people on TV, people in the political sphere, I'm convinced there are tons of psychopaths.
FALLON: Yes. Anderson, if you look at there was just a study done, a scientific study, of all our presidents. All the biographers answered all these questions about them. It was on a scale of psychopathy and on the scale of psychopathy, in sort of the one part of psychopathy, not the criminality part but other part, the ones who scored very high were like Theodore Roosevelt, JFK, FDR, Bill Clinton very high.
The ones had no psychopathy at all in this were people like Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, and when you look at association of psychopathic traits with leadership, it's like we want these people, right, because they do things that are -- they take chances, they lie at the right time. FDR was lying all the time, but he saved us so it was OK. So if you look at people that we choose to be leaders, I think a lot of them have these traits and they're part of leadership skills.
COOPER: I also think what it takes to propel somebody into the public sphere, propel somebody to success, it's not -- they are not normal impulses, I think. And I think a lot of them are psychopathic impulses.
FALLON: If you have the grand vision because psychopaths will have a grand vision. Not all of them. Some are just lousy rats. But people have that grandiose, narcissistic need. They've got something to prove to save the world. That's part of it. It doesn't make you psychopathic, but it's one of the traits that fits into this puzzle.
COOPER: It's really fascinating. Thank you so much for talking about it.
COOPER: As I said I find this just amazing. If you're curious about where you fall on that scale of psychopathy you can actually take a test to find out. We've posted it on our web site ac360.com. It just takes a couple of minutes. I've taken in. Pretty much on our staff has taken it and let's say the results are very, very interesting. So it's not quite that bad.
But just ahead, instead of -- let's take down that picture, please. Instead of cabernet, this tour features cannabis. It's a dream come true for a lot of people in Denver. Tours modelled on Napa Valley wine tours, but focused on weed, not wine.
Also, Baobao the panda cub gets ready for her big debut. She's part of a bigger mission. Details just ahead.
COOPER: In our "Gone to Pot" series, we've been looking at Colorado's ground-breaking experiment in legalizing recreational marijuana. Retail pot stores opened their doors on New Year's Day in Colorado. Demand has been high to say the least. A CNN/ORC poll we commissioned shows how much attitudes over pot have changed over the years. Just 12 percent today think pot is more dangerous than alcohol, 73 percent, nearly three quarters, think alcohol is more dangerous.
Forty years ago people were basically split on the question, 29 percent said pot was more dangerous, 31 percent said alcohol. The rest didn't really see a difference. A lot of people are hoping to cash in on pot's new image and Colorado's new law. They're being called ganjapreneurs and some are taking a page from Northern California. Here's Randi Kaye.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at those birds in the back.
RANDI KAYE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Barbara Harvey does not fit the stereotype. She's 72 years old, a grandmother, and she loves to smoke pot. So today is a dream come true, a cannabis tour, now one of the most popular attractions in Denver. Think Napa Valley wine tours, just replace the vice.
BARBARA HARVEY, CANNABIS TOUR CUSTOMER: These are all dispensaries in Colorado. We have more dispensaries than Starbucks. How sweet is that?
KAYE: Tour members get VIP access and are quickly ushered into private rooms to make their purchase. First stop is the 3D dispensary.
HARVEY: What about joints? Do you have some joints?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have some pre-rolls.
HARVEY: This is so if you don't want to smoke the whole joint you can put the remainder for later into this and store it. It doesn't get smashed up.
KAYE (on camera): What's that called?
HARVEY: What's this called?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A doob tube.
KAYE (voice-over): Barbara buys two joints. The bud tender, as the guys behind the counter are called enlightened us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kind of like a muscle relaxer on your bones. It's going to be very therapeutic for you. You're going to feel just total relaxation in your body. But still have a lot of clarity.
KAYE (on camera): That sound pretty good to you?
KAYE: She'll take one. She'll take one. All right, let's go. (voice-over): Time to hit the road again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: America, what a great country.
HARVEY: And I thought maybe someone would like to smoke a joint with me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire it up. Check this out, legal pot.
HARVEY: Legal pot! Yes!
KAYE (on camera): When you found out there were tours like this, what did you think?
HARVEY: I couldn't wait to go on one. I just think it's a great idea. Rather than waste your money on bars, just get in this and drive around Denver, see the sights and enjoy yourself like you're in your own living room. It's perfect.
KAYE (voice-over): Barbara has suffered from bipolar disorder and sore knees. She said marijuana helps a lot. A few more puffs and it's time to put this joint away.
HARVEY: There it goes. See? And then you cap it and that will put it out. And you don't waste any tobacco smashing. Voila.
KAYE: Why are the tours so popular? They get to stop at four dispensaries, they get endless gourmet munchies and they get a personal cannabis concierge who helps them understand everything they need to know about marijuana.
HARVEY: It's been absolutely amazing.
KAYE: Addison Morse own this is tour company, Colorado Rocky Mountain High, and can barely keep up with the demand, even at about $300 per person. In these parts, people like her are called ganjapreneurs.
(on camera): How does that label feel?
ADDISON MORSE, COLORADO ROCKY MOUNTAIN HIGH TOUR COMPANY: I think that's a perfect label. This is what Colorado's all about. This is who we are here. We were built on silver, gold and oil, and now we're built on the green. And it's really good green.
KAYE (voice-over): Now at their second stop, a dispensary called Starbuds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are three different ones. Do they act the same way?
KAYE: This tour customer buys some edibles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can walk out of here without having any problems?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No problems. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Check that out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There you go. Have a great day.
KAYE: It's a quick stop. Then back in the limo for more fun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Colorado Rocky Mountain High Tour!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's good. That's good tasting.
KAYE: This tour always includes a stop for lunch or dinner. The group had their mind made up.
(on camera): You guys are demanding tacos? Is that what I hear?
HARVEY: Well, I could eat a taco or two. I'm hungry.
COOPER: So Randi, I got to ask, how extensive was your research in the back of that limo?
KAYE: You know, Anderson, it was top notch. We did very extensive research I have to tell you. My brain was a little fuzzy by the time I got out of there.
KAYE: Yes. I wasn't thinking right. I couldn't remember some of the questions I wanted to ask in the interview, which has never happened when reporting. I found things to be really funny, much funnier than I normally do. I think we got a little bit of a contact high there.
COOPER: But it was just a contact high. I just want to make that clear, is that correct?
KAYE: Yes. It was just a contact because they don't have vaporizers yet even though a lot of the companies want to use them. So the smoke was still there as you could see in that video. There was a lot of smoke. I don't know how those people did it. I really don't.
COOPER: How were they standing after smoking so much? I guess they built up maybe a tolerance? Seem to smoke a lot?
KAYE: Yes, I think so. Barbara has been smoking, using marijuana for 40 years, the grandmother that we interviewed. If you saw those joints, I don't know if you could see them through the video there, they were like the size of small cannons. I have a couple of them here in the wrapping. This one's a blueberry one and they're very, very big. So they smoked a couple of those before they put it into the doob tube as she called it. And they were really high.
Plus they were chewing on some of the edibles. They had those in the car. There's no alcohol served or anything like that. But one thing that I did learn this week, very important, is here's a little bit, here's a couple of buds here. This is considered a seteva, a high energy which Coloradans apparently like because they're very active people.
This is one called indica. This means like sort of in the couch. You can get seteva or indica. Crawl into fetal position and into the couch. People here definitely prefer the setevas.
COOPER: Randi, did you say those joints were like smoking cannons, as big as small cannons?
KAYE: They are so big. When Barbara whipped it out to light it up, nobody wanted to light it. Everybody was afraid to touch it because it was so big. Nobody had seen such a big joint before. But Barbara at 72 had no problem lighting it up and getting everybody involved. They had a great time.
COOPER: How much longer are you going to be there, Randi? Are you moving there?
KAYE: I think I need to come home. I'm coming home tomorrow.
COOPER: Come back to the east coast.
KAYE: Do you think they'll know?
COOPER: Thanks very much.
COOPER: You might want to wash your clothes before going through security at the airport, too, a lot of smoke again. Randi, thanks very much.
For this week's "American Journey," we bring you pandemonium tied to Baobao the giant panda cub born at the National Zoo back in August. Since then we've been able to track her on the zoo's panda cam. In eight days, everyone can see her in person in Washington Zoo. Her name means precious. The fitting name for a cub who is key in the fight to revive her species. Here's Tom Foreman with the story.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's so warm.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At just 17 pounds, 5- month-old Baobao is already a heavyweight in the world of conservation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's 58 centimeters.
FOREMAN: A rare success in the long fight to preserve the giant panda.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pandas are notoriously difficult to breed.
FOREMAN: Laurie Thompson tends to Baobao and says there are many reasons. Pandas are naturally solitary and usually don't mate well in captivity. Artificial insemination is uncertain and even when new ones are born, they often don't make it.
LAURIE THOMPSON, NATIONAL ZOO BIOLOGIST: Unfortunately, they are very -- sort of in the first month or so, they are very fragile and you often don't know that there is anything wrong.
FOREMAN: The panda's American journey, however, has been key to the species' survival.
THOMPSON: This is the crate that Lingling was shipped in in 1972.
FOREMAN: The first panda.
FOREMAN: U.S. scientists have helped the panda along ever since the first bears were sent here from their native China following a visit by President Nixon. Researchers in the National Zoo are now among the top authorities in the world for breeding them. Yet births like this remain rare.
THOMPSON: Every year you kind of hope for it and every year it's been a disappointment since 2005.
FOREMAN: Habitat loss has left only 1,600 pandas in the wild, some 300 in captivity. Small wonder, then, that this new arrival, this rare bear, is being treated with such care. Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.
COOPER: Very cute rare bear.
Coming up do we really need our toothbrushes to communicate with our phones? Somebody apparently thinks so. "The Ridiculist" is next.
COOPER: Time now for "The Ridiculist." This has been a very exciting week in the city of Las Vegas where the International Consumer Electronics Show has been going on since Tuesday. Every year we learn from the show that there's some daily activity that we're all doing wrong, for instance, brushing our teeth. At this year's show, a company debuted what it calls the world's first connected electronic toothbrush.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: It's never been easier. You simply download the free mobile app, connect via Bluetooth, and every brushing is recorded. Then the data about how you brushed automatically synchronizes to your smartphone, telling you whether you brushed long enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: It's never been easier? Wasn't it a tiny bit easier when you didn't have to download an app to brush your teeth? Look I'm all for this. Finally our phones can tell us if we've brushed our teeth. Until then the only way to know was to, I don't know, be alive, I guess, be an actual human being.
But the smart toothbrush is also a way for parents to track the kid's brushing habits. I guess that's good. The only way to know if your kid's actually brushed their teeth was use your eyes to look at them or get creative Uncle Buck style.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you brush your teeth?
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: Yes. You can even feel my toothbrush.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have a friend who works at the crime lab at the police station. I could give him your toothbrush and he could run a test on it to see if you actually brushed your teeth or just ran your toothbrush under the faucet.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: If that's true, we're going to really have to start brushing our teeth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: P.S., your kids are totally going to be able to figure out how to hack the data on the toothbrush app. Mark my words. Seriously, though, do we really need technology to track every single thing we do? We might as well just get an electronic mother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's called mother and this basically is home base for information. And these here are cookies that you place on different products, and it tells mother what you're doing with those products good or bad. It's a take off of mother knows best. Mother knows what's going on in our lives?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. At least you can decide what your mother is looking at.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a programmable mother.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: So wait. The concept of mother is you put sensors around your house and then a pear-shaped electronic ghost tells you when you woke up and when you had coffee? Not sure I get that. Look, I'm all for gadgets. But sometimes I wonder if it's just going a little bit too far. Remember the tweet pee?
A sensor detects inside the diaper and sends a message to mom or dad that it's time to change said diaper. The humidity thing I get. It's moisture related. But my question is, if it tweets for pee, what does it do when the baby drops a deuce? Post a picture on Instagram? I certainly hope not. So now, your mother is fully electronic and interactive. Your baby's diapers have a social media presence and your toothbrush is basically cyber bullying you, such wondrous times in which we live on The Ridiculist.
That's it for us on 360. Thanks very much for watching. PIERS MORGAN LIVE starts now.