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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
New Update in the Search for Missing Malaysian Airlines Flight 370; Shooting in Fort Hood Resulted to Three Killed and 16 Others Wounded; Aviation Mysteries Throughout History; 13 Planes, 11 Ships Part of Today's Search for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370; Fort Hood Victims Remembered
Aired April 4, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again. I'm John Berman sitting in for Anderson tonight.
We do have breaking news in the search for flight 370. That in a big gamble on how it is being done. This is a major development and it is not the only one as investigators race to find something anything, before pingers from the Boeing 777's black boxes just stop working.
Four weeks with no signals from them or any sign of the plane. And we will show you how investigators now plan to change that.
We begin though with breaking news out of Fort Hood. A new information that may shed considerable light on how the rampage unfolded and what may have motivated the killer, specialist Ivan Lopez.
Today investigators and people close to the investigation said a lot, both on and off camera. Our justice correspondent Pamela Brown is in Fort Hood.
And Pamela, what is the latest tonight on what you're hearing?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, a U.S. military official with direct knowledge of the investigation telling our Barbara Starr that that traumatic brain injury that Lopez had reported actually came from a reported fall during patrol, not from a traumatic event related to combat.
And John, we learned from military officials today that there was an argument that escalated between Lopez and another soldier the moments right before this shooting. Officials believe that was the impetus. And according to a father of one of the victims, it all started over a leave request form.
BROWN (voice-over): CNN has learned in the weeks before his deadly rampage at Fort Hood, army specialist Ivan Lopez was creating a stockpile of ammunition. Sources say when Lopez bought his .45 caliber semiautomatic handgun at this store, Guns Galore in Killeen, Texas on March 1st, he also purchased what one source calls a large amount of ammo. CNN has also learned the 34-year-old returned to the store repeatedly to buy even more bullets. It's the same place where Major Nidal Hasan bought the weapon he used in the 2009 Fort Hood attack. The army said it now thinks the shooting started as a dispute with another soldier.
LT. GEN, MARK MILLEY, COMMANDER, FORT HOOD: We believe that the immediate precipitating factor was more likely an escalating argument in his unit area.
BROWN: CNN has learned Lopez went to a base personnel building Wednesday to pick up a form to request time off. The father of Jonathan Westbrook, one of the soldiers injured in the attack, says after Lopez was told to come back on Thursday he snapped, returning a short time later with his gun.
THEODIS WESTBROOK, FATHER OF INJURED SOLDIER: The first guy he shot right in front of my son was killed. Then he turned the gun towards Jonathan, aimed it and fired.
BROWN: Investigators are still trying to piece together an exact motive of the shooting and why Lopez came on base armed. Tonight they're looking at evidence such as his gun, extra ammunition, his reported mental health issues, and the medications he was prescribed like the sedative Ambien.
On Capitol Hill, army officials told Congress that while Lopez, an Iraq war veteran, had a spotless service record, he also appeared to have an unstable psychiatric condition.
JOHN MCHUGH, ARMY SECRETARY: He was seen just last month by a psychiatrist. He was fully examined. And as of this morning we had no indication On the Record of that examination that there was any sign of likely violence.
BROWN: Sources tell CNN police searched the apartment where Lopez has recently moved with his wife and young daughter. But have found no evidence such as a suicide note to explain the shooting.
BERMAN: And Pamela Brown with us again.
Pamela, today for the first time we heard from Lopez's family. What are they saying?
BROWN: That's right. Lopez's father breaking his silence for the first time in a statement, John. He said he is astonished. He is saddened by what happened, and said my son must have not been in the right mind. He was not like that. He also talked about his son's medical treatment for his mental health and the passing of his mother and grandfather and how that affected his existing condition.
But despite reports that Lopez only got 48 hours to go to Puerto Rico for his mother's funeral this past November, a military official with direct knowledge of the investigation telling CNN that the army actually offered him the full leave to attend his mother's funeral, his mother's funeral which is ten to 14 days, but that Lopez chose not to take the full leave so that he could go to truck driving school.
Military officials making it clear today, John, that we may never know the full reason of what caused Lopez to snap.
BERMAN: No. But some of those details do seem to be coming in now.
Pamela Brown at Fort Hood for us, thanks so much.
Out of the three killed and 16 wounded, Sergeant Jonathan Westbrook was among the first to be shot. We heard a bit from his father in Pamela's report. Sergeant Westbrook was hit three times. But despite that he's making a great recovery and he got out of the hospital today. His wife Renee joins us by phone.
Renee, I can't imagine what these last few days have been like for you. First off, tell us how your husband's doing.
RENEE WESTBROOK, HUSBAND SHOT AT FORT HOOD (via phone): He's doing well. He's OK. I have visual on him. So as long as I have visual on him and I know he's OK, everything is going to be all right.
BERMAN: You have visual on him. So what was it like the first time you saw him after everything that had happened?
R. WESTBROOK: I was just happy I could see him, I could hold him and just let him know that I love him and I am here for him through the whole process, through his whole healing process I am here for him. And words cannot explain -- I was elated. I was just happy to see him.
BERMAN: Did he tell you what it was like when he first realized he'd been shot?
R. WESTBROOK: I guess he was just -- I guess he was just more than shocked, unbelieving. And as well as I was shocked as well because I was told to call him. Because I had just got off work. I saw a shooting at Fort Hood. It's like, OK, I need to call. So I called him. And I did get in touch with him. I said, what's going on? I said, are you OK? He kind of hesitated in a way. And he said, well, I was one of the victims that had been shot. I said -- when he said that, it just didn't register at that time. OK he was shot, you know. Everything was just going through my mind. I was like, OK.
So after that I heard nothing else from him at that time he said he had gotten shot twice. But I guess after other evaluation they did find out that he was shot three times in the chest and the arm.
BERMAN: What kind of --
R. WESTBROOK: I was very -- it was a very scary situation.
BERMAN: It sounds like a terrifying situation. In terms of the recovery, what kind of process are you and your husband looking at right now?
R. WESTBROOK: I'm believing he has to go through physical therapy. And they've released him from the hospital. I believe he has to go through physical therapy. And he has someone to come in and take care of the wounds. It's going to be not slow but a steady process, healing process for him.
BERMAN: So you had to travel from Mississippi to Fort Hood after hearing your husband had been shot three times.
R. WESTBROOK: Yes.
BERMAN: Describe to me then the moment you finally did see him.
R. WESTBROOK: Wow. It was a wild moment. I was just happy to see him. Because those ours, they felt like days and days. Because I wanted to come right then but I couldn't. So after I actually got here and got settled in and I actually saw my husband, it was like a big relief, a big sigh. Pressure had been taken off. I could breathe again, you know. It was amazing.
BERMAN: What was the first thing you said to him?
R. WESTBROOK: I just hugged him. That's all I can say. I guess my actions were bigger than words. I hugged him. And I told him that I loved him. It was just amazing. And I was just thankful that God gave him a second chance.
BERMAN: All right. Well, Renee Westbrook, our best to you. Our best to your husband, as we said. You guys are lucky to have each other. And I hope you get to spend some very, very quality time together in the near future.
R. WESTBROOK: Thank you.
BERMAN: Now to the breaking news in the search for any sign of Malaysia airlines flight 370. It has just resumed in the Indian Ocean, 13 planes and 11 ships are involved today. Now, we've first been told the number was higher which would have made this the biggest day in the search. It turns out it was a clerical error on the part of authorities. In any case, the search is still large and now happening underwater as well. We'll have the latest from Australia in just a moment.
First, Malaysian officials briefed family members of the people on board flight 370 behind closed doors at a hotel in Kuala Lumpur. But people who were there say it was a waste of time with no news about what happened to the plane or their loved ones.
After the meeting, Danica Weeks whose husband Paul was on the plane asked what many are still asking. How can a commercial airliner simply disappear?
She sat down with CNN's Paula Newton and said she needs answers for herself and for her children.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANICA WEEKS, HUSBAND ION FLIGHT 370: Sometimes I catch myself seeing the excitement of him coming home. And I have to get rid of that out of my brain quickly. Because I can't let myself go to that level of excitement. Because it would only -- it's only going to make me crash when I find out the real truth. Which we're all expecting will be that the plane has crashed. But until that point, until I have something concrete, I can't grieve.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: How important is it that they keep looking for him? That they keep this going?
WEEKS: Hugely important. Hugely important. As I said, we need something. The families need something. And we need answers, not just for me but for my children.
NEWTON: Have you started to think about the possibility that Paul's sons will grow up -- your sons will grow up and not know what happened to him?
WEEKS: I've thought of that possibility, yes. Am I willing to accept it right now? No, I'm not at that point. Because if this was me on that plane, Polly (ph) would be fighting, going everywhere, asking every question, chasing down to find out what happened to me for our sons and for himself. So I just have to do my utmost right now and keep going to find the truth. And this will all encompass me completely.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Again, four weeks now since Malaysia airlines flight 370 vanished. And tonight, the search has take a new direction underwater. For the first time teams are scouring the ocean floor for signs of the black boxes. But without conclusive evidence of any debris it's really just a shot in the dark.
Kyung Lah joins us now from Australia with the latest.
And Kyung, you could hear the determination in Danica Weeks' voice not to give up the search. Because there really does seem to be this creeping sense that search authorities are just guessing where the plane might be right now. Are you getting that feeling there?
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think they're admitting it, absolutely. We heard in the last press conference held by the head of the search team that basically they're not guaranteed to find anything. They don't know if they're in fact looking in the right spot. They believe they are. They have the best educated guess, the scientists. All the information is pointing to this particular area. That's why they have those two towed pinger locaters, one from the U.S., one from the U.K., doing that 150-mile trek. They believe that that's perhaps where they're going to find that concrete piece of evidence that we heard that wife say she needs. Because the families need it. But yes, they're not sure that they're looking in the right spot, John.
BERMAN: Kyung, the words we hear now are luck and best guess. It tells you exactly where this search is right now.
Kyung Lah, thanks so much.
The panel joins us next to talk about this. Also Tom Foreman shows us how this latest search area was arrived at. We'll show you the high tech undersea tools that just started working today.
And also revisit some of the longest-running disappearances in aviation history. Stay with us.
BERMAN: The breaking news tonight, searchers have resumed looking for flight 370 including underwater even though in the absence of a debris field it could amount to a shot in the Indian Ocean dark, possibly but not entirely. The search area may have shifted several times, but at least it only covers a particular patch of water.
Tom Foreman explains how experts narrowed it all down but also why it might change yet again.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John. If you look at these search areas lately, it can look a bit like chaos. Look how they've been adding in here for a couple of weeks now, just moving all over the place, sometimes by hundreds of miles.
But if you draw a line, just sort of generally through the middle of all these areas, you might notice something. And that something is this. It matches pretty nicely to that great big track they established a long time ago based on these satellite pings.
Now, there are many ways they could be wrong here, many ways. For example, if you get the trajectory up here off by just a degree or two, you could be way off over here or way off over here. So your search area could be hundreds of miles off course. That's one way you could be wrong with this.
Another way, for example, you might have the plane flying into a lower altitude than expected, in which case would get more wind resistance, have slow it down and end up much shorter than you would expect. In addition, you might have a different speed calculation. We're in the sure how fast it was going. If it was going 560 miles per hour, that makes it cover a certain amount of ground. If it's going 440 miles per hour, that's a different amount. And depending on when the fuel runs out, even a ten-minute difference at these kind of speeds can make a gigantic difference when it gets down to the water.
But all that aside, they keep coming back to the same area, trying to figure out if it's in here. And the fact they keep pounding the same general area suggests they have some confidence in this calculation, even if it's a long shot-- John.
BERMAN: All right, Tom Foreman, thanks so much.
Joining us to talk about this, CNN analyst David Gallo, co-leader of the search for Air France flight 447 and director of special project for the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. Former transportation department inspector general Mary Schiavo who currently represents accident victims and their families. CNN aviation analyst and veteran private pilot Miles O'Brien. And of course, CNN aviation correspondent Richard Quest.
Miles, I want to start with you here because I've been listening to every word you've been saying about this. And today, you really say it's Hail Mary time. Why?
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, it is. Because the batteries on these pingers, these devices which allow you to try to find them when they're underwater, will expire -- the shelf life at least goes off in a couple of days. So you have ships on-site. And they have the ability to listen for the pings. Even though we have no idea they're in the right area because we have no wreckage trail, you might as well put those listening devices underwater on the hope against hope that you get lucky and you can hear it.
The range in these pingers on a good day is two miles. There's all kinds of conditions that can make it less. Of course as the batteries go out, that can be reduced tremendously. So it is in fact a Hail Mary pass but they should do it.
BERMAN: And you know, in football terms, at least in a football game, they know where the end zone is when there's a Hail Mary. I'm not even sure they know where the end zone is here.
Richard Quest, we hear about the assets now from skies, from space, from the surface and now underwater. Still now that they've deployed the underwater devices is that reason for more hope?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: No more hope than there was earlier on, just more assets. They've started to add satellite telemetry to the whole search as well. Remember, the satellite, they were using on the lower part of the search brought up a lot of objects which when they went to find them they could never find them and therefore it wasn't very valid.
Also, there haven't many satellites actually looking at this part of the ocean normally. So they're having to re-task those satellites.
BERMAN: You know, Tom Foreman just said in his piece, Richard, he said they keep refining the search area based on new math and new calculations. I think a lot of people wonder if it really is based on new calculations or whether after strike and you have one place. They just think they need to try somewhere new.
QUEST: Now, you have a group of people who are in Kuala Lumpur, in Malaysia doing the calculations, the so-called international group, the working group, part of the investigation. And amongst that group are the NTSB, FAA, the WAIP, Rolls Royce, Boeing, the Malaysians, all the experts.
Now, I know you want to -- you would like Inmarsat. Miles would like them to release the documents upon which they are refing the search. And maybe there's a call for that to give more information. Because what they appear to be doing is moving this box around and not really explaining why. So they have to explain why to us. That's an interesting question.
BERMAN: David Gallo, I want to bring you in here. Because as they're moving these assets around and changing the search area, now they have the towed pinger locater out there. How confident are you that the batteries in the black box are even still working, even still pinging?
DAVID GALLO, CNN ANALYST DAVID GALLO, CO-LEADER OF THE SEARCH FOR AIR FRANCE FLIGHT 447: That's anyone's guess, John. But here's the thing about that is that going over an area and not hearing the pinger doesn't mean that the aircraft is not there. So the TPL is useful if you do hear something, but if you don't hear something, it is not that useful, you know. And I think at this point, knowing where the plane isn't is important information, too. And the TPL won't exclude any place.
BERMAN: Doesn't really narrow it down very much then necessarily. Mary -- Go ahead.
GALLO: John, I like what I see. For air France 447, something that people thought, a plane people thought would never be found. We had a good last known position and we had the debris. But you know, the debris was good to say OK, you're in the right area. But the retrofit of the debris led us on a two-month wild goose chase. So we actually lost time with the debris. It was good flowing back and forth mowing the lawn of the ocean floor that found the aircraft.
BERMAN: Yes, sure. We only do there to comparisons with flight 447. And of course, it is very instructive for some things. But I'm often struck by the differences here. As you said there was debris there within days of that flight disappearing. Here, obviously no debris and we're a month into it already.
So Mary, you know, I was speaking to you earlier today with the batteries either dying soon or perhaps already dead, what's the best case scenario here? Is it still floating debris? They seem to have changed what they're looking for in terms of debris from possible large objects to something very, very small.
SCHIAVO: Well, I think the best chances are for that underwater search. I mean, at this point they haven't turned up any wreckage. They keep refing the data points and that's good. We want them to do that. And they want to do that.
But at this point, I think the pinger is one thing that they will continue to use until the battery is out or maybe it's already gone. But then they can do the underwater search, the side scan sonar and other underwater technologies to locate it as they did in air France, realizing however that air France had those system status update messages. It was a wonderful cascade of little messages from the plane telling us they had problems so we knew right where it was.
But I do think the underwater assets now hold the best promise. And if the plane's largely intact, it's fortunately a big target to find.
BERMAN: And those resources being deployed now today for the first time. So we will have to wait some time now to see how well they're working.
Miles, Richard mentioned it before, you know, accusing you of wanting more data. Explain to me what you're after here and how it could be helpful. You're essentially asking for open source here group think?
Yes, I think so. I mean, they say the best and brightest minds are analyzing this Inmarsat data. But it is, you know, they say peer reviewed. It isn't peer reviewed in the conventional way that scientists would view it. It's proprietary information headed into an investigation that is considered secret.
O'BRIEN: So we understand why they haven't released it. But this is bleeding edge science. This is the kind of thing that has never been done before by a satellite not designed to do this. Why not open this up to the world, to the minds of the world? Scientists, engineers the world over to pour over it. Maybe there's a nugget in there. How does that compromise this investigation to do that?
QUEST: I think because it's a slippery slope of what you then start -- the cockpit voice recorder, the actual tape of that. The Inmarsat data. You start to sort of say let's all release all the evidence about the computer that was found. And it starts to become mushrooming about what you hold on.
Where I think you should and they should now be starting to look at, we are one month on, John. It's time for them to give a first written report, a statement of facts, so they we know exactly what we know and how they know it.
BERMAN: David Gallo, one month on, does this go on for two months, for three months? You've been involved with long, long searches before, obviously. When is it time to change the nature of it or at least admit you're not looking the same way you did before?
GALLO: No right now, you know, again, with Air France one of our secrets was to make it a committee-free zone. So the committees are important. The sharing of knowledge is important. But at the end of the day it was a small group of people, a single team, a single ship, a single technology with a single mission and that was to find that aircraft. And we had to block out everything that we could and just get down to the mission of mapping the sea floor. It was a big task, but we got the task done.
And you know, again, nothing happens quickly once you get beneath the waves. We're going to have to have patience to see what this team turns up.
BERMAN: Mary, what do you make of this discussion?
SCHIAVO: Well, I think one thing to note is the first step on the written report, actually the first step is a public hearing, is an open hearing. And the key thing when the NTSB takes on a crash is with that first public hearing, the fact-finding hearing, they release the docket. And there for public scrutiny go the human factors group, the aircraft group, the weather group, the air traffic control group. And they put all those documents on a public docket so the world can see. And I think that would be very useful with that first step. I don't want the written report to be the first step. I want a public hearing.
BERMAN: A lot more to talk about this obviously. Coming up next we'll take a closer look at the technology that is now part of the search, listening for pings from these black boxes. How long can it go? How far can it detect those sounds?
And later what happens when missing planes are never found and how often has that happened? That and more when "360" continues.
BERMAN: As we've been reporting, the search has resumed at this hour in the Indian Ocean for any sign of wreckage from Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. For the first time, the search is happening underwater. High tech equipment from the United States is listening for pings from the plane's black boxes.
Randi Kaye takes a look at the technology that now has an active role in trying to solve this mystery, the mystery of Flight 370.
RANDI KAYE, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This high tech listening device can glide along near the bottom of the sea at about 1,000 feet from the ocean floor. It's a U.S. Navy hydrophone or underwater microphone called a towed pinger locater. Search teams are counting on it to find the pinger mounted directly on the black boxes from Flight 370. But time is running out for the pinger's battery life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What they're trying to do is get ears in the water while the pinger is still going.
KAYE: This is the sound it's listening for. The towed pinger locater, or TPL, is 30 inches long and weighs just 70 pounds. It's towed behind the ship that operates it, in this case the "Ocean Shield," and generally moves at about 3 knots. That means with 150 miles or so to cover, just a sliver of the search area, it will take days.
TIM TAYLOR, PRESIDENT, TIBURON SUBSEA SERVICES: It does two things. It gets it down into that level. It also gets it away from a lot of the surface knots. Wind on the water creates noise, propellers, dolphins, animals, fish, they all make sounds.
KAYE: The device can pick up the pinger sound in depths reaching 20,000 feet from as far as 2 miles away.
(on camera): Here's why it's so critical to get that towed pinger locater deep down in the ocean. The pinger sound from the black box can get stuck in something called a deep sound channel about 2,000 to 4,000 feet below the surface. If the sound does get trapped there and bounces around, the only way to pick it up may be through one of these pinger locater devices.
TAYLOR: Sending the towed pinger down there, the TPL, will put you in that channel so they can hear that echoer or ricocheting sound. When it picks up the sound it's in real time sent up the cable of the boats. In real time the scientists and technicians on board the boat will be listening.
KAYE (voice-over): Pinger locaters have been used for years. In 1996, a TPL successfully located the black box for TWA Flight 800, though that was in shallow waters off New York. Investigators used one in 2009 when Air France Flight 447 went down in the Atlantic but found nothing. If they have any luck locating the pinger from Flight 370, next they'll deploy this autonomous underwater vehicle. It maps the ocean floor.
TAYLOR: It will start running patterns back and forth, shooting sound out the side and taking pictures. It will show objects, shiny objects basically, bright objects that could be the plane.
KAYE: Right now, that's the perfect scenario, but even the head of this search effort seems to be hedging his bets.
AIR CHIEF MARSHALL ANGUS HOUSTON (RETIRED), CHIEF, JOINT AGENCY COORDINATION CENTER: Hopefully, hopefully, the calculations putting us into about the right area.
KAYE: Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.
BERMAN: Our thanks to Randi. So joining me to talk again is analyst, David Gallo, also with us Sylvan Pascaud who was a technical adviser in the investigation of the Air France 447 crash. And Sylvan, let me start with you here. The towed pinger locater in the water as we speak, searching for these pings from the black boxes. What do you think the chances are that we'll find anything?
SYLVAN PASCAUD, TECHNICAL ADVISER FOR AIR FRANCE INVESTIGATION: Well, in case of the Air France, we had two towed pinger locaters. We went over the whole area and the water is so deep that you have 10,000 meters of cable behind the ship. So it's very difficult to narrow down the position.
BERMAN: It doesn't sound like you're very optimistic. Is this just a case where it's better than nothing?
PASCAUD: I mean, in this case you have to try everything, everything, and especially the pingers are going to be operating for 30 days, maybe a little bit more. You never know. Try everything. It's just as simple as that.
BERMAN: David, so in addition to the owed pinger locater, the ship right now has the Blue Fin, the autonomous underwater vehicle right there. Tell me when that would become useful.
DAVID GALLO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, in some ways, in the traditional way of thinking you'd wait until you heard -- picked up the pinger locater then deploy that. But I'm thinking if we have faith in that area, as big as it is, it can't really hurt anything to get that vehicle in the water, get some operational expertise in that area, see what you see, and start crossing areas off where the plane isn't. And I think that's important information now.
So I think it can be valuable, but you know, you don't want to burn out the teams, either. They want to be pretty judicious. The one thing I have to say is that once this gets going full speed, both vehicles in the water, we need to leave that team alone because they're going to be plenty busy and they can't second guess what they're doing.
BERMAN: No, they need to do their jobs without interference. Interesting what you say though about the Blue Fin because up until this point we've been told that it will probably just be used once they found debris, once they had a greater sense of an area to search. Interesting that you suggest that maybe they need to start using it right now. Sylvan, that make sense to you?
PASCAUD: Absolutely. I mean, you can put everything you have underwater because time is running out. So I would do exactly the same thing.
BERMAN: You also, Sylvan, say that you think that this is all right now obviously based on data, the analysis of the data, the Inmarsat data, the radar data from earlier in the flight. Right now this is just a big math problem being solved by smart people in a room. Do you think there's more data out there and do you think there needs to be a better analysis?
PASCAUD: That's a very good question. Because in the case of Air France, on one hand we had too much data and on the other hand we had too little data. The idea was to backtrack the data that could help us on the ocean as opposed to the air problem. So we sort of went through the data and then found new data that helped us narrow down the retro drift and the positions of the debris field.
BERMAN: David, it certainly doesn't sound in this case like it is case of too much data, does it?
GALLO: Not where we need it, right. Again this comes down to the confidence of that last known position, that swath that we moved to that Richard quest showed, has talked about moving up that arc. If we can be confident about that box as big as it is then we need to find ways to whittle that down. But if that's the box, and we believe the plane's in that box, we can find it and we should find it if it's in that box.
BERMAN: David Gallo, Sylvan Pascaud, thanks so much for being with us, talking this through. A lot more to discuss.
Up next, we'll dig deeper into the troubling notion that Flight 370 might not be found anytime soon or ever at all. We'll show you some legendary aviation mysteries including many that remain mysteries even now. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: So in a time in human history when almost no one on earth is more than a text message away with satellite and drones and surveillance planes, the idea there could be no sign at all of a missing airliner, a big missing airliner for four weeks with all this looking it's hard to believe. It is not, however, unprecedented. Again here's Kyung Lah.
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Frustration mounts as the search continues for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. But look back through aviation history, and there are other mysteries that linger for months, years, even decades.
(on camera): There have been planes in the past that have completely disappeared.
(voice-over): Carroll Gray is an aviation historian. He says the most storied and enduring mystery is the disappearance of Amelia Earhart. She vanished in her twin engine mono plane over the Pacific Ocean in 1937 as she attempted to fly around the globe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's still no concrete evidence as to what happened.
LAH: Her mystery unsolved.
(on camera): For a passenger plane like that to disappear, that's not unprecedented, either.
CARROLL GRAY, AVIATION HISTORIAN: No. And one that comes to mind is the British South American Airways.
LAH (voice-over): Two British South American Airways jets and their 51 passengers disappeared in the infamous Bermuda triangle in the 1940s. Also that decade five American bombers on a training mission vanished in the Bermudas. Even the search plane went missing all without a trace and still unsolved. Then there's this, the flying Tiger Line.
GRAY: It went off in 1952 near Guam, flying Tiger Line went off the radar, gone, disappeared.
LAH (on camera): No wreckage.
LAH (voice-over): It was 1962. A U.S. military flight with more than 90 people on board unsolved. The crash of Uruguay Air Force Flight 71 was so mysterious that Hollywood depicted the tale in the movie "Alive." In 1972, the 45 passengers crashed in the Andes Mountains. The survivors resorted to cannibalism to stay alive until they were found. This mystery solved after 72 days.
(on camera): What are historians and bloggers saying right now about this modern mystery?
GRAY: That this is a very weird event. A very strange event that doesn't lend itself to the normal sets of explanations.
LAH: As a historian, how gripping is this for you?
GRAY: It's phenomenally gripping. People are gripped by mysteries. Things that are unsolved just sort of grab people and especially when you have a common experience of flying.
LAH (voice-over): And that's why this historian says today's mystery must be solved.
GRAY: When you get on the plane the next time, are you going to wonder a little bit whether or not you're going to disappear? That's why it's so urgent that some satisfactory explanation happen fairly soon.
LAH: Kyung Lah, CNN, Los Angeles.
BERMAN: Some food for thought there. Will this mystery be solved? Let's put that question to our panel, David Gallo, Miles O'Brien and Richard Quest. Let me ask a simple question to each of you down the line. David Gallo, you first, do you think this plane will be found?
GALLO: Yes. As long as we have the will to look. You've heard it that we must find it. Air France was thought to be a plane that would never be found. And we know today that that search area was relatively -- a lot smaller than this area. But again, it's there someplace. It's a matter of getting the right break, finding the -- maybe doing the right number crunching so we refine that search area. But yes, I think we'll find this plane. It's just a matter of will and time.
BERMAN: Quickly, do you think we're talking about a year, two-year, Titanic thing where 70 things down the line?
GALLO: No, it could be tomorrow. It could be two years, tomorrow, a month from now. It's hard to say, John.
BERMAN: Miles, what do you think?
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: It will be found. It's just a matter of time. Will it take -- I don't think tomorrow is the day. Again it could be. But I think we're talking at least on the other side of this winter coming up and maybe longer.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: From the very beginning I've said it's not a question of if, it's a question of when. This plane will be found.
BERMAN: That's a tremendous amount of optimism from you guys. Interesting to me. A discussion we've been having that has exploded on social media over the last few minutes about the free flow of information in this case. Miles, you've been calling for really the release of all the data, satellite data, radar data. More information out there to get more eyeballs on it.
O'BRIEN: Well, that would be pretty controversial. Let's just start with Inmarsat though because this is unconventional data to be used in the context of an aviation accident investigation. It's a satellite not designed to track. It was some clever engineering that gave us these circles on the globe to look at. They involve use of the Doppler effect to get an idea of which direction the plane might be going. It's fascinating, actually, and really never been employed in this manner. Why not open the books on that?
BERMAN: Richard, it gave you a hard time saying you were calling for censorship. That's not what you are saying here, but why not release this to have professors at the best universities around the world?
QUEST: Because it's a slippery slope and Miles knows it.
O'BRIEN: Why not carve out this one thing, though?
QUEST: Where do you stop?
O'BRIEN: You stop right there.
QUEST: So you say now. What I do think is that I would like to see this investigation and the information being released four weeks on starting to look more like other investigations. I don't mean like the NTSB and Debra Hertzman releasing everything after Asiana. I'm talking about more information on things like what did Vietnam say? What was the time scale? An official time scale? Those sort of things we would expect to find from any other investigative body by now.
BERMAN: David in one word or less, who's right, Miles or Richard?
BERMAN: Both. Safe call. David Gallo wins with the diplomatic position there. All right, Gentlemen, David Gallo, Miles O'Brien, Richard Quest, really appreciate it.
Next we're going to return to Fort Hood to remember those who died and we will honor how they lived.
BERMAN: Let's get caught up with some other stories. Susan Hendricks has a 360 Bulletin -- Susan.
SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, a photographer for the Associated Press was shot and killed this morning in Afghanistan. The 48-year-old Anya Nedringhaus and her close friend, an AP reporter were attacked while covering an event connected to Afghanistan's elections this weekend. The reporter was wounded. While the death toll from an Ebola outbreak in coastal West Africa has risen to 86 while dozens more have come down with the illness according to aide workers. The Worlds Health Organization says the outbreak has evolved rapidly.
Paintings created by former President George W. Bush will go on display at his presidential library in Dallas tomorrow. The paintings feature his impressions of 30 world leaders. They are part of an exhibit called the art of leadership of presidents, personal diplomacy. He says he's most proud of the painting of the former president who's also his father.
A 360 follow, officials in Boston say that last week's fire that killed two firefighters was unintentionally caused by welders. But criminal charges are possible because the welders did not have a permit. Thirteen firefighters were injured in that blaze -- John.
BERMAN: Susan, thanks so much. From one tragedy to another, memorial services will be held next Wednesday at Fort Hood for Sergeants Timothy Owens, Carlos Lazaney Rodriguez and Danny Ferguson. We know them by the circumstances of their deaths as the faces of a national tragedy. They're more than just pictures on a screen, more than facts on a page or some larger story about deadly violence.
Tonight as best we can we'd like you to see Timothy Owens, Carlos Lazaney Rodriguez and Danny Ferguson as they really were to those who will miss them most.
BERMAN (voice-over): Sergeant First Class Danny Ferguson is being remembered as a hero, sacrificing his life to protect a roomful of others, using his own body as a barricade in front of a door a keep the gunman out. His fiancee, Kristen Haley, was nearby when the gun fire erupted.
KRISTEN HALEY, DANNY FERGUSON'S FIANCE (via telephone): He held that door shut because there's no locks. If he was not the one against that door holding it, that shooter would have been able to get through and shoot everyone else.
BERMAN: A talented athlete, friends say he was destined for greatness. Ferguson had just returned from, a tour in Afghanistan. His fiancee says he died doing what he loved, serving his country.
HALEY: He did have a pleasure of serving. Like this was his life and he was so proud to be a part of such a great service.
BERMAN: A counselor and father of two, Sergeant Timothy Owens just signed up for another six years in the Army. Recently remarried, the 37-year-old dedicated his life to helping fellow soldiers. His mother tried calling her son when she heard about the shooting.
MARY MUNTEAN, TIMOTHY OWENS' MOTHER: He didn't answer the phone. So I left a message on his phone saying call me so I know if you're OK or not. Well, never got no call from him. I thought, God, please don't let it be.
BERMAN: Sergeant Carlos Lazaney Rodriguez enlisted as soon as he could, at age 18. Described as a caring leader, the native Puerto Rican had a 20-year career in the Army. He planned to retire at the end of this year. Among the 16 wounded, Sergeant Jonathan Westbrook, a former bank teller and dedicated father of three from Mississippi who joined the Army three years ago. Westbrook worked in the office where the shooting began. He was hit by three bullets, in his chest and one of his arms.
New York State Native Major Patrick Miller is in stable condition after two surgeries. The two-time combat veteran also has master's degrees in business and public administration from Syracuse University. Friends call him the glue that keeps them together.
DUSTIN BOTTONE, PATRICK MILLER'S FRIEND: Obviously this is a wound on his belt, but he will -- he'll move on.
BERMAN: Move on, but never forgets.
BERMAN: We'll be right back.
BERMAN: Does it for now. Thanks for watching. We'll see you again at 11:00 Eastern for another edition of 360. "SMERCONISH" starts now.