Return to Transcripts main page


Tropical Storm Gains Strength Threatens East Coast; New Explosives Prompt Airport Security Changes; Revenge Killing?; American Woman Accused of Supporting Terror Group; Do U.S. Drug Laws Target Minorities?

Aired July 2, 2014 - 19:00   ET


DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Up next, breaking news, Tropical Storm Arthur gaining strength that is now on a collision course with the Carolinas.

Plus, sweeping new changes to airport security could be on the way. Will it be enough to stop the latest terror threat?

And a flight forced to return to LAX due to a mechanical problem? We'll tell you exactly what the mysterious leap was. Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening, everyone. Don Lemon in for Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, we are following two breaking stories right now. A major security crackdown at airports across the globe and Tropical Storm Arthur gaining strength and winding up for a possible hurricane strike just ahead of the July 4th holiday.

Winds up to 70 miles per hour right now churning off the northern coast of Florida and as Arthur moves north, bands of damaging winds and torrential rain are expected to hammer the coast of North Carolina. A U.S. astronaut tweeted this picture of the storm. You can see how big Arthur is. Enormous.

In Boston, 4th of July fireworks celebration has been moved up until tomorrow. Meteorologist, Chad Myers, OUTFRONT tonight checking it all for us. Chad, what is the very latest on the storm's path?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Getting bigger, getting deeper, which means the low pressure is getting lower. The winds are picking up. The path is taking you right to North Carolina. Right along the coast anywhere from Wilmington to Morehead City and right over towards Cape Hatteras. That's the line.

Here is the storm, itself. There is an awful lot of lightning associated with an outer band. It's not attached to this storm but significant lightening. At least a thousand lightning strikes. I have seen here across the Florida peninsula in the past couple of hours. There is the storm on satellite, beginning to see the eye take shape.

That means the storm is sucking in air at the surface and blowing it out the top. This is how a hurricane gets bigger and the Hurricane Center says this will be a hurricane in less than 12 hours. There is the eye of the storm right there. The forecast has changed a little bit.

At 5:00, the forecast got the storm closer to the shore of North Carolina. So a couple hours ago, the line was kind of out here. Now the center of the line is here, which tells me, we have looked at the models all day, that there is a better chance, a higher chance that we get more erosion in North Carolina, more rip currents.

More beach erosion, more roads that may get washed out, and then eventually, it heads to the east of Nags Head and then away into the Atlantic Ocean. Something else, it will get farther away from New York and D.C. That's some good news, there is an 85-mile-per-hour storm.

It's going to get closer to Boston though as it makes its approach right about tomorrow night. That's why we know that they are rearranging their plans for the 4th of July. Most of those plans will take place tomorrow because of that storm could affect Boston as the Friday night approaches, right around 18:00, it would be prime time the closest approach for that storm.

The models are all in agreement, Don, there they go. I don't think it misses North Carolina at all. Something else I want to get to right before I lose you, there is a major line of weather heading right to New York City. Sometimes when that happens, we get what's called satellite fade. The satellite can't shoot through all that rain.

We'll watch your signal to see if that happens to you tonight, but big weather is headed to New York City. Lots of lightning, get inside.

LEMON: Meaning if we get knocked off the air because of that. It's Murphy's Law just in time for the holiday weekend and we can call it Arthur's law. Chad, we'll be checking in with you. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Other breaking story tonight, sweeping changes to keep air passengers safe across the globe from explosive devices that can slip through security. Homeland security officials will be putting new rules into effect that expands screening of U.S. bound flights.

Just hours ago, the British government announced it is stepping up security measures. CNN's Jim Scuitto is OUTFRONT with more on the security crackdown and the threat facing millions of travelers.


JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They are the first line of defense for the American homeland, foreign airports with direct flights to the U.S. Now the Department of Homeland Security is directing those international airports to step up their security screening.

In a written statement, DHS Secretary Jay Johnson said, we are sharing recent and relevant information with our foreign allies and are consulting the aviation industry. Among the changes passengers may see, more screening of electronics and shoes. More explosive detection machines and in some cases, extra screenings at boarding gates.

Driving the new directive is increasing concern that terrorists from al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula or AQAP are refining bombs designed to avoid detection by current airport screening methods.

SETH JONES, ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY AND DEFENSE POLICY: Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula has long looked for vulnerabilities in airport security and, in particular, finding ways to put together bombs using non-metallic material that can make its way through metal detectors. But also trying to hide bombs in body crevasses, that will not be easily identified by some of the newer machines in place at airports.

SCIUTTO: This is the man believed to be behind the threat, AQAP master bombmaker, Ibrahim Al-Asiri. In recent months, U.S. officials have warned that Asiri and AQAP terrorists trained under him were improving designs of new explosive devices, such as shoe bomb, that could fool screening systems. We spoke about the new measures today with former DHS Secretary Michael Chertoff.

(on camera): How concerned should flyers be about what this means for the threat?

MICHAEL CHERTOFF, FORMER SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: I would be mindful of the fact there is probably increased risk. I don't think it's dramatically different. I would not fly. Good news here is that the government sharing information with others in other parts of the world is responding to this.


SCIUTTO: We are told that these new security measures will be implemented at airports in New York and the Middle East and the fact that they have specific cities, specific airports in mind, indicates that this is an urgent threat. They wanted real action and these new measures will be taking place in several days -- Don.

LEMON: Appreciate that tonight. Jim Sciutto in Washington tonight. And OUTFRONT, CNN counterterrorism analyst, Phil Mudd. He is also a former CIA counterterrorism official. Can I just run through some of the measures that they include, additional inspections of shoes, and additional explosive trace detection machines and additional screenings at boarding gates, so will they, will all of these measures be enough to stop these explosives that can make their way through security, Phil?

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: The answer is sort of I mean if you look at how effective we have been in the year since 9/11, if you had told somebody on September 12th, 2001 that we would face no downing of an airliner over the U.S. In the ensuing 13 years, I think people would say, I'd take that bet. We got close in December a few years ago by a guy wearing an underwear bomb made by the same bomber.

You can't play defence against the bomber who is this creative and this technically proficient forever. It's like the U.S. soccer team last night. You can play brilliant defense, eventually, these guys will score.

LEMON: Ninety eight million passengers arrived in the U.S. by airline last year, about 257,000 passengers a day. So what can be done to screen and protect all of those passengers without disrupting air travel? The lines are long enough?

MUDD: Well, you've seen some of that already in the past years, for example, you can't take liquids on aircraft. That resulted from a plot we witnessed beginning in the summer of 2006. The problem here in my view doesn't relate to how we stop every electronic device, whether we can search 200 million shoes coming into the U.S. every year. Can you imagine that statistic?

You have to be zero for 200 million and sure that not a single shoe has a device. Let me tell you the answer, Don. The answer is that guys who were plotting this need a one-way ticket off planet earth. You cannot eliminate these kind of plots unless you eliminate the technical proficiency in al Qaeda and its affiliates in places like Syria and Yemen. There are very few bombmakers who can do that.

LEMON: Well, that goes well beyond just screenings at airports that has to do with anti-terrorism measures, correct?

MUDD: That's correct. I think you can assume that the people involved in this plotting are pretty high up on U.S. target lists. They will eventually go down.

LEMON: Let's talk about more than four years ago, it was explosives in the underwear, do you remember that, the underwear bomber tried to blow up explosives. Is that what we are dealing with now, similar type of explosive devices?

MUDD: That's right. What you are dealing with is bombmakers who recognize some of the capabilities of the machines you see in airports. So that's why they're looking for non-metallic devices. These guys are very smart. Furthermore in my experience and I watched them for 25 years at CIA and the FBI, they read the newspapers. They have access to the internet. So they see the devices we are trying to put in place.

They see the measures that TSA and others, the European security agencies are putting in place. They try to stay one step ahead of us as we try to stay with these measures, a step ahead of them. You'd be surprised how much internet research these bomb-makers will do in order to figure out what we are doing.

LEMON: Phil Mudd, thank you. It's frightening that these can't be detected. Appreciate it.

OUTFRONT next, tensions rising in the Middle East over what some are saying was Israel is retaliating.

Plus, America's drug problem, does your skin color determine your prison sentence?

And goalie Tim Howard saves Bambi. Jeanie Moos has the story. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Tensions rising in the Middle East tonight amid accusations of a revenge killing. New and violent clashes between Israelis and Palestinians after another teen is found murdered. Atika Shubert is in Jerusalem with the very latest for us.


ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The streets of Jerusalem are sieving with anger and grief on both sides. Before sunrise on Wednesday, a 17-year-old Palestinian was forced into a car outside his family's shop. An hour later, police found the body in a forested area of West Jerusalem, so badly burned that his parents had to provide DNA to identify their son. Within hours, Palestinian teenagers set up flaming barricades in front of the home throwing stones at Israeli troops stationed nearby.

(on camera): For many of the Palestinian residents here there is no question as to what happened, they see this clearly as a revenge attack. They are angry throwing stones, using slingshots and the response from the Israeli police, stun grenades and tear gas.

(voice-over): When Palestinian lawmakers of Israel's parliament visited the cousin shouted out his frustration. We demand the Israeli government bring the people who did this to justice, he says, deal with them as you did to the others. We want to see their houses demolished, their families arrested. We want revenge.

This just a day after the bodies of kidnapped Israeli teenagers were laid to rest. Tens of thousands came to mourn. Their parents doubled over in grief. Now, it seems, calls to avenge their deaths have brought yet another funeral. The cycle of violence so familiar to residents in this city appears to have started once again.


LEMON: Atike Shubert joins us now. Atika, I was watching earlier, and you know, you had a bit of a scare. It was a real scare while you were in the field today. I want to play some of that and get your reaction.


SHUBERT: Things are very tense here at the moment. In fact, I'm going to spin the camera around very briefly here. Excuse me. There is a lot of police trying to disperse us here. It seems they let off a stun grenade, Israeli police are trying to disperse residents who are very angry at what has been happening.


LEMON: I think you were very cool and calm considering what happened. Atika, what is it like on the streets today?

SHUBERT: It was pretty chaotic in the neighborhood that we were at. We were right in front of the location where that Palestinian teenager was believed to be abducted. So that's why it was particularly tense there. The lot of the people there in the neighborhood knew him. Some even saw what had hatched.

So they were extremely angry and they responded with throwing rocks. Israeli police had stun grenades as you saw in that video. Unfortunately, it looks like that violence has spread to other neighborhoods of Jerusalem tonight.

LEMON: Atika Shubert, stay safe. Thank you.

Joining me now is Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's spokesman, Mark Regev. Mr. Regev, Israeli police say they are investigating whether the death of a Palestinian teen in Jerusalem was a retaliation killing for the West Bank teens. Any news on that?

MARK REGEV, SPOKESMAN FOR ISRAEL'S PRIME MINISTER: I can tell you the police and investigators who are doing this very professionally at this stage cannot say that they know who did this killing, this gruesome murder. I think we have as to wait for them to give us their report.

LEMON: OK, we have seen clashes breakout between Israelis and Palestinians since the discovery of a Palestinian teen's body the White House weighed in today. I want you to listen.


JOHN EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We call on the government of Israel and the Palestinian Authority to take all necessary steps to prevent an atmosphere of revenge and retribution.


LEMON: So what specific steps will the Israeli government be taking?

REGEV: The prime minister called upon all people, people on all sides, not to take the law into their own hands. Now, we will get to the bottom of this. This crime this morning is obviously a teen has been killed, murdered and we're going to get to the bottom of this. But we can't jump the gun. You better allow the police to do their work to find out exactly what happened.

LEMON: What is up? You said that Benjamin Netanyahu said don't take the law into your own hands. Would it help if he made some sort of verbal statement condemning this killing, regardless of who is responsible?

REGEV: He has. He has condemned. He did it straight away. He condemned the murder. He called eight heinous crime. I don't think you can find tougher language than that.

LEMON: But he did not do it verbally.

REGEV: He put out a statement. The prime minister has been in security meetings all day in the defense ministry in Tel-Aviv. We have a crisis as you know. There is fighting in Gaza. There is the ongoing investigation to try to get the killers, the kidnappers and the murderers of those three young Israelis. He's got a lot on his plate.

LEMON: You don't think it would be appropriate for him to step in front of a camera, a group or somehow convey it, himself, to the Palestinian people?

REGEV: He might be doing that very shortly.

LEMON: I want to read you something that the Palestinian teen's cousin said today, it says, we blame the Israeli police for the kidnapping and killing of Mohammed and his burning. The Israeli police and government should do the same as they have done, demolish and blow the settlers houses who have done this, done this crime. So, would you take that action if it is discovered to be a revenge killing?

REGEV: We are totally, when it comes to this sort of criminal act. There is no difference between a Jewish or Arab resident of Jerusalem. Murder is murder is murder and the police will get to the bottom of this.

LEMON: I spoke yesterday with Israel's ambassador to the U.S., Ron Dermer. I asked him if Israel was prepared to see this escalate to a full scale war. I want you to listen to what he said.


RON DERMER, ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: The people if Jerusalem the decision-makers meeting as we speak in the security camera will make the decisions they have to in order to protect the country.


LEMON: So he didn't exactly rule it out. Are you prepared to rule it out?

REGEV: If we look at the situation in Gaza, I'm not interested. The government of Israel is not interested in escalation. But when you got rockets coming across the border daily, unfortunately, it appears there are more and more rockets. It has to stop. If Hamas stops it, that's the best. But if we have to stop it, we will.

LEMON: So you are not ruling it out as well?

REGEV: Once again, we do not want to see escalation, but we will act to protect our people, if need be.

LEMON: All right, thank you, Mark Regev.

REGEV: Thank you very much, sir.

LEMON: Still to come, breaking news, a woman arrested at the Denver airport allegedly on her way to meet a member of the terror group, ISIS.

Plus, a flight forced to make an urgent return to the airport. What was the substance passengers saw leaking in the plane?


LEMON: Another breaking news story to tell you about tonight, a 19- year-old American woman arrested at Denver Airport, accused of providing material support to the terror group, ISIS, the same group that is currently battling in Iraq and Syria. Shannon Maureen Conley was arrested as she tried to board a plane to meet up with an ISIS fighter she met online.

Our justice reporter, Evan Perez, is in Washington with the very latest. Evan, what did you learn? This is unsealed. It didn't just happen, right?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Right, Don. This happened back in April. She was trying to board a flight to Turkey when the FBI stopped her and arrested her and the complaint that the FBI filed has been unsealed today by a federal judge in Denver.

According to complaint that the prosecutors have filed, they say the FBI has been talking to this woman for several months, back to last year, when they found out from sources, through people in the community apparently that she had an intent to join the Jihad group. She felt she as a Muslim convert needed to go help in the Jihad cause.

Now, the FBI started interviewing her. They talked to her parents, talked to people she knew to try to persuade her this is not the route. This is not something you want to do. She insisted. She kept explaining why she felt that she needed to do that. There is a part of the complaint in which she says in which the FBI says that -- in which the FBI says Conley stated that she wanted to wage Jihad and would like to go overseas to fight.

She further stated that she is not allowed to fight because she is a woman. She would use her medical training to aid Jihadi fighters. Apparently, she had some nurse training and had military training when she joined this group called the U.S. Army Explorers, which is a non- profit group that helps young people prepare for careers in the military -- Don.

LEMON: Evan Perez in Washington with our breaking news tonight. Even, thank you very much.

Still OUTFRONT the truth about America's drug laws. Are you more likely to go to jail if you are black?

Plus, a scare on a flight from Los Angeles, what flooded the aisles in the latest instalment of the city of tomorrow. We see the future and its trash.


LEMON: Colorado cashing in on pot. It's been six months since recreational marijuana became legal and the state has collected more than $11 million in taxes. While pot has brought in millions in revenue in Colorado, in most parts of the country it can land you in jail. Reports show black people are much more likely to be arrested than whites. So a U.S. drug laws do they apply differently to minorities?

Jim Clancy is OUTFRONT tonight.


JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Glenda Clowers looks at the old photos and remembers worrying about her sons like any parent. But as her youngest, Jabari, grew in his 20s, staying in steady jobs and staying out of trouble, she took comfort.

GLENDA CLOWERS, MOTHER OF CONVICTED DRUG OFFENDER: I felt as a parent I was on my way to having a successful young man.

CLANCY: But today, Jabari Clowers is 25 and sitting in a Georgia jail convicted of possession and intent to distribute marijuana.


CLANCY: He says he expects to serve two years of a six-year sentence. Clowers is not the only black man in prison because of his own bad choices. According to an ACLU report, black people are almost four times more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession than white people, although actual usage is the same for both groups.

The racial disparity is stunning, according to an attorney working to change America's marijuana laws.

MICHAEL KENNEDY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The only explanation is blatant racism.

CLANCY: Jabari talked to CNN on the phone, the first time offender drove his friend to the convenience store. It was his friend, he said, who sold a pound of pot to the undercover agent.

JABARI CLOWERS: I feel like in Georgia it's not legal, so we're getting treated like, unfairly because if you can do it in one spot, but in another state you can't.

CLANCY: The amount cited in Jabari's case exceeds legal limits in any state. A changing attitudes about marijuana have made buying and selling up to an ounce of the drug legal in Colorado and decriminalized in many others. As a result, a legal industry is starting to emerge.

MICHELLE ALEXANDER: You know, I flick on the evening news these days and when the subject turns to marijuana legalization, I see lots and lots of images of white people smoking marijuana, getting high and white men, in particular, dreaming of getting rich quick, selling marijuana after decades of young, black men and boys, in particular, being targeted and round up en masse and stripped of their basic civil and human rights for doing precisely the same thing.

CLANCY: But veteran prosecutors say there are clear differences.

SALLY YATES, U.S. ATTORNEY: Don't make any mistake that illegal drugs are a real problem for our society and you can debate marijuana, but -- and the legalization in some states, but the Mexican drug cartels are responsible for a tremendous amount of violence. It's caused a real problem for our society. So, I'm certainly not going to be one here who's going to advocate that we should abandon our drug prosecution.

CLANCY: The FBI reports about 750,000 Americans were arrested for marijuana violations in 2012. Of those arrests, more than 87 percent were for simple marijuana possession. But Yates says at the federal level, thousands of jailed drug offenders may be eligible for early release if that their convictions didn't include guns, violence or organized crime under a new clemency initiative.

YATES: It's designed to focus on the lower level, non-violent truck offender, who under prior laws and prior policies received very long sentences, sometimes 10, 20, 30 years, sometimes even life.

CLANCY: Billions of dollars is spent enforcing marijuana laws each year. A billion more spent on keeping an estimated 40,000 marijuana offenders in jail.

Contrast that with Colorado's 10.8 million in tax revenue. In the first four months marijuana sales have been legal.

If real change is coming, professor Alexander believes it has to be about more than just money.

ALEXANDER: I don't think it's enough for us to just kind of, you know, try to wash our hands of this and say, OK, we're done now, locking millions of people in cages and stripping them of basic civil and human rights for using or selling marijuana him we are done, let's move on, let's make some money. I think we're going to have to think very carefully about how we got here and what can be done to repair the harm, the really unspeakable harm done to so many families and communities in this country.

CLANCY: Glenda Clowers could say something about that.

GLENDA CLOWERS: Now, you can say that one state can make money and prospers, in another state, a kid can go down and his whole life and dreams are torn away from him.


CLANCY: Don, a great debate, of the kind envisioned by Michelle Alexander is all but inevitable. As the U.S. appears more flexible in its drug policies going forward, the people most affected by them want a reexamination of the past. Felony drug records, say some, are a life sentence. It will affect a person's ability to get a job, an education and everything that goes with it.

And as we discover here, that affects people of color in a disproportionate way -- Don.

LEMON: You want a good read. You want to learn about this particular issue and others, read Michelle Alexander's book, "The New Crow", it is eye-opening.

Thank you, Jim Clancy. Appreciate that.

So, let's debate this now. OUTFRONT tonight, former district attorney Michael Bongiorno and Matthew Fogg from Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.

Matthew, you first. You heard Jim Clancy's piece. Do you think U.S. drug laws are applied differently to minorities?

MATTHEW FOGG, FORMER CHIEF DEPUTY U.S. MARSHAL: Oh, no doubt about it. As a law enforcer and officer that spearheaded the drug war, I know for a fact we targeted urban areas. We were actually led to stay in those areas, not go to the more affluent areas the white areas, we were told they know judge, lawyers, politician, those folks want to challenge your arrest, challenge your probable cause, all of the thing that led when you look across the board, what led law enforcement officers to the more minority areas.

And then, on top of that, when you look at even, like for example, Prince Georges County, an area with one of the most affluent African- American areas in the country. Still, the arrests on African- Americans in those areas were still up.


FOGG: So, you add that racial component to it. It's clear cut.

LEMON: Michael, you don't think this is all about race and why?

MICHAEL BONGIORNO, FORMER DISTRICT ATTORNEY: No, it's about crime. What happened was resources from the police were directed at communities with high crime rates. And in inner cities, those tend to be black communities that are poor.

And as a result, you're going to have more arrest, and the communities demand it. The law abiding people in those communities were up in arms. You go back historically to the '70s, the '80s, and to '90s, crime was out of control in New York City --

LEMON: I have to disagree with you that it's just about crime and it's also about -- and according to a prosecutor who I know, a very good friend of mine, who says it's not racist on its face, race does play into it. But it's the application by individual judges and maybe the judges may have some bias, therefore, race would play into it.

BONGIORNO: Well, you know, there is always individual bias that some people may or may not have. But the institution as a whole and the vast majority of judges are very fairminded and are trying to do their best.

Let me just dispel misconception, your piece sort of conflated drugs and marijuana.

LEMON: Right.

BONGIORNO: Hard drugs such as cocaine and marijuana, as if there are a lot of people if prison for marijuana offenses. That's simply not true, especially in New York, where I'm a prosecutor. In the year 2008, a total of 71 people were sentence to state prison on marijuana charges, 71.


BONGIORNO: New York City is 14, 14.

LEMON: Yes, it is lax when it comes to marijuana because of the crime rate is up, other things that they're looking for besides marijuana.

BONGIORNO: But it dispels the notion that these prisons are filled with these minor marijuana offenders. Very few people go to jail or prison for marijuana.


LEMON: From New York, which is a bit different.

But I just want to say, as Jim pointed out in his piece, the ACLU report shows that African-Americans are four times as likely as whites to be arrested despite similar rate of abuse. You say because there are more police officers.

BONGIORNO: No, it's because the resources of the police are directed at the high crime free zone.

Let me give you an example. Most of the people arrested are men. Is the system anti-male? No, it's because those are the people tend to commit the crimes, and they draw the police attention.

LEMON: All right. Matthew, I want to ask you about this. This is what President Obama said back about incarceration rates for weed, smoking weed, in January. He said, quote, "Middle class kids don't get locked up for smoking pot and poor kids do." Is this simply because middle class kids come from families that can afford the best lawyers so they don't end up going to jail?

FOGG: No, no, because like just I said, if you look at the black middle class families the report brought that out, they had higher numbers of arrests in those areas so again, we're talking about, race plays a very important part here. Also, what we need to look at the report brought out that overall, if you talk about 3.4 percent. But in some areas, it was 10 percent, 20 percent, 30 percent disparity rate.

So, again, what I'm saying to you is what I observed and I actually was involved in when I saw it, we were targeting black areas.


FOGG: We knew exactly where to go.

LEMON: But I think, Michael, again, as I said, looking at it from, in a New York-centric way, because in Georgia, it is different. People are locked up in Georgia and other states, they are going to jail for marijuana. I had a friend in Georgia, in Atlanta for marijuana. White male. He did go to jail, but they're going for marijuana, maybe not in New York.

BONGIORNO: Well, once again, they're not going for simple possessions of small amounts. If they're going to jail, it's probably because they possessed or trafficking in larger amounts, and that's quite different.

Now, if you want to argue about the legalization, now, that's something for legislatures to deal with. But in terms of enforcement, it is important, if you're looking at the way police departments react. You have to go after the low level to prevent the higher level crimes. And that includes going after, as long as it's on the books, going after the marijuana offenses and prosecuting people.

It doesn't mean you have to send them to jail. But if f you pull them off the street, and they get fined, or they get drug treatment pursuant to their crimes, that's a good thing.

LEMON: It is a great debate. Those of us in the real world who are my age, who have seen sort of the marijuana, you know, first it was very taboo, now it's accepting -- I lived in the suburbs. There is a lot of drugs, a lot of marijuana in the suburbs, more than I see in urban areas, but people don't have that perception about it. That's the simple truth in reality.

I don't know what the studies show, but in my reality, that's what I see. And a lot of kids who bought their pot were buying it from white kids in the suburbs.

FOGG: That's right.

BONGIORNO: But the different types -- you think about the different types of dealing. If you're dealing in the city, once again, you have a lot more open dealing on the streets, and that's gong to be more subject to law enforcement intervention, especially if you are developing and putting cuts into those communities to reduce the drugs and the crime related to the drugs. There is a big, big connection. I think the other guy sort of agree with me, there's a huge connection between drug dealing and violent crime.

LEMON: Matthew?

FOGG: But we knew exactly. We had informant. We knew where the drugs were coming from and where they were going into the white affluent areas. The bottom line was we were directed away from those areas because we knew what the fallout would be if we did go into those areas.

So, again, what I'm saying is the whole culture in place is to go after the little guy or go after the guy that cannot defend himself and go into the racially black areas. I mean, that's just black. I think everybody sees it.

LEMON: You have to look too as well if you look at the difference, I know it has changed, but the difference between sentencing for cocaine and sentencing for crack --

BONGIORNO: That was a federal disparity. That wasn't a state law disparity.

LEMON: But, still. We are still talking about drug disparity --


BONGIORNO: We just get back to a couple of points. Once again, I was in law enforcement for 30 years. I was a district attorney, assistant D.A. in Manhattan, I was district attorney in Rockaway, we never shied away from white defendants on drug cases, I don't know where this is coming from. Maybe that's your experience down in Washington, D.C. or wherever you were working --

FOGG: It was everywhere.

BONGIORNO: Well, no, that is certainly not the case in New York. I can tell you, if that's the case down there, you were working for the wrong people.

FOGG: If you look at the numbers, if you look at the numbers, sir, what I'm saying is this, if you look at the numbers, you would say, automatically, African-Americans use drugs or use marijuana more than anybody, more than the other the white race. We know that's not true.

So why are the arrest rates as high as they are? Because again the whole culture guess go after the weakest link, get your numbers up, get our arrest records up so we can show the public we are washing on drugs, but the reality is.

BONGIORNO: Who are your supervisors?

LEMON: Let's not get between Washington and here. But if you look at, he has a point the way the culture is set up. More police officer, what-have-you, where does that come from?

BONGIORNO: Well, it's in reaction to the tremendous crime that we had in the '70s, '80s and into the '90s, we hired more police and directed them specifically into the poor community.


LEMON: They were pushed into areas, into urban areas. It didn't just all of a sudden happen. That stemmed, in part, in large part from racism.

BONGIORNO: If the people are in the neighborhood, if you say that's a part of racism, you have to police those neighborhoods. You can't put.

(CROSSTALK) LEMON: You understand what he is saying. He is saying because the way the system is set up.


BONGIORNO: It doesn't make it racist that a part of the police that direct the resources --

LEMON: No, systemically, it's because the way the system is set up. The system is set up in part because of racism. You can't deny that aspect when you're analyzing it.

BONGIORNO: I don't understand your point. The police direct the resources where they think it's most needed.

LEMON: OK. We got to run, but thank you. We'll come back. We'll have a debate. I don't mean to dang up with you. I love having this conversation.

Thank you, Matthew. Thank you. We'll have you back, Michael. Thank you very much. I promise.

OUTFRONT next, the city of tomorrow is already here, what Philly is doing to save the environment and millions of dollars, and a flight forced to turn around when a river runs through it.


LEMON: There is a revolutionary way to manage America's trash that will keep our streets clean, cut down an air pollution and save taxpayers a million dollars.

For more here's Erin Burnett.


ERIN BURNETT, OUTFRONT HOST (voice-over): Trash is a problem that's plagued humans since we moved into cities. And dealing with it is messy and expensive.

America spends approximately $55 billion a year managing waste. But in Philadelphia, a trash can is revolutionizing waste management, cutting down on air pollution and potentially saving the city potentially millions in the process.

MICHAEL FELDMAN: The concept was to marry solar technology, wireless technology and some trash compaction.

BURNETT: The Big Belly solar compactor automatically crushes down its trash, allowing it to hold five times the amount of garbage as a standard waste basket. When it's full, it sends an alert to a Web site indicating it needs to be emptied.

That little alert makes a big difference.

DONALD CARLTON: Before Big Belly, we had wire baskets. They serviced 17 times per week. The installation of the big belly units have allowed us to now service the Big Bellys four times a week, which is approximately a million dollar saving force the city of Philadelphia.

BURNETT: Most of the savings has come from cutting the size of collection crews.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Philadelphia's place that, I took a crew of 33 trash collection staff and reoriented it into approximately nine guys now collecting trash and the rest of the guys have been working on the recycling effort.

BURNETT: The single compactor can operate for an entire year on the energy it takes to drive a trash truck one mile. The city shield out a total of $4.7 million more the smart trash can.

CARLTON: When you talk about spending $3,500 to $3,900 on a receptacle. It doesn't sound that great at first. When you see the savings and reduction of crew cost, the units will pay for themselves within five years.

BURNETT: Major cities across the world from New York, to London, are also using the smart crash can. But the Philly experiment is the largest. Trash will always be a part of our lives, but with smart technology, it doesn't have to be a total waste.


LEMON: Erin Burnett working when she is not working. Here's something you don't see every day.

That is water running down the aisle of an airplane. This double deck Qantas flight was flying over the ocean, headed to Australia, when it sprung a massive water leak. It was enough to flood the upper deck and rain on passengers seated n the lower deck. Onboard, actress Yvette Nicole Brown from the TV show "Community" tweeted about the experience and described what happened to CNN.


YVETTE NICOLE BROWN, ACTRESS (via telephone): All of a sudden, it looked like a trickle at first, like I thought someone spilled a soda or pop or something, and then it just got bigger and bigger and filled up both aisles and it literally was like a river running down the aisles of the plane. It was the scariest thing I've ever seen.


LEMON: Flight attendants attempted to soak up the excess water with blankets and pillows. Qantas Airlines issued an apology and said, there were no safety concerns but the captain decided to return to LAX.

Sara Sidner has been following the story for us and she joins us now.

Listen, maybe this was gross, to say the least. Do Qantas know what happened here exactly, Sara? SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know what? I just got

off the phone with a representative from Qantas and I asked them a question that I know you want to know, Don, which is -- where the heck did this water come from? I didn't know there was that much water on a flight like this.

So, here is a couple things, one is that the water on this flight was actually drinkable water according to a Qantas representative. It's water for things like the bathroom, as well, but it was clean. It was not use in anyway. And so, that's a good thing.

The passengers did not report any kind of smell or anything coming from this water, but these airlines, especially the ones going on long haul flights like this particular one that was leaving from L.A. and going all the way to Melbourne in Australia, it's a 14-hour flight. They have to have enough water on the flight to make sure things like the bathroom work properly all the way through.

So, that is where hundreds of gallons of water on these flights, that's where the water came from, Don.

LEMON: Yes, we've all sat next to the bathroom and so, if they didn't smell it, it's probably OK, I hope.

But still, if it is running down the aisle, Sara, then it's raining on people in the lower deck, we've seen the statistics on the germs on airlines and studies. Apparently, they said there is no safety concerns but water, electrical equipment 35,000 feet in the air, it's like a recipe for disaster.

SIDNER: Well, here is the thing. I talked to aviation experts and they talked about this a bit. They said, look, because it was on the second floor, that was one good thing but these planes have plenty of electrical cords and wires all throughout usually the bottom of the plane and throughout the plane, for example. You know, when you watch movies, the long haul flights, the connectors between those.

So, there is plenty of electricity on the flight, and if it had to seep into that, that may have caused a real problem because it may have shorted out some sort of electrical devices on the particular plane.

But at this point, because of where it started, they said look, they were only an hour into the flight. The flight attendants did what they were supposed to. People were not screaming and hollering. They were given blankets to sop it up and just so you know, just got this, basically they are still trying to get this problem fixed. And they will give people a whole new flight at 8:00 our time tonight.

LEMON: Drier, I hope, with some towels, maybe.



SIDNER: Definitely. LEMON: Can they put everybody in first class for that?

SIDNER: You know what, Don? I don't think -- there are 400 people, if there was 400 first class seats.

LEMON: Just make the whole thing first class and give everybody drinks and all the food they want.

SIDNER: Sounds good.

LEMON: Oops, a little blink off the air. I hope it's not weather related. Thank you. See you later, Sara.

OUTFRONT next, he made a record number of saves at the World Cup, but what else should Tim Howard save?

Jeanne Moos has that story.


LEMON: Praise from his teammates, adoration from his fans, the president even called him today, 16 saves during yesterday's game has thrust Tim Howard right into the spotlight. But what about other things that need saving?

Here's Jeanne Moos.


JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Talk about well-armed, the U.S. may have suffered heart break, but ended up with a heartthrob.

CROWD: Timmy Howard --

MOOS: Timmy Howard, they are chanting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The man of the match.


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The new Captain America.



MOOS: But the Internet didn't clap. It photoshopped its love for placing George Washington on the quarter "In Tim we trust."

The goalkeeper's 16 saves earned him the title "Human Wall". Here is a photo of Tim Howard's proud parents.

CUOMO: You, my man, are popular.

MOOS: Tim Howard trails only Jesus in saves, difference between Tim Howard and Jesus, Jesus had 11 guys he could trust.

(on camera): All of which brings us to our goal, the top 10 tributes to Tim Howard. Many of them inspired by the #thingstimhowardcouldsave.

Number ten, the dinosaurs from extinction. That's Howard intercepting an asteroid.

Number nine, the Titanic.

Number eight, saving the Italian defender from the bite of Uruguay's Luis Suarez.

And number seven, Mount Rushmore became Mount Howard.

Number six, the gloves that blocked so many shots, not sure they're regulation size.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: He's just amazing.

MOOS: Number five, Howard saves Taylor Swift from Kanye West as she accepts her MTV Video Music Award.

Number four, the king of blocking shots even saves blockbuster.

Maybe he should have saved his voice.

HOWARD: Good morning, America.

MOOS: He was hoarse from yelling to his teammates and humble as he received praise in interview after interview.

HOWARD: That's what I signed up to do.

I'll stick my face in front of balls and try to keep them out.

MOOS: Number three best tribute, Tim Howard contraceptive, blocking sperm from fertilizing an egg.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: I think right now the band needs a nap.

MOOS: Number two best tribute goes to whoever changed the Wikipedia entry making Tim Howard U.S. secretary of defense.

The goalkeeper later got a congratulatory call from the actual defense secretary, Chuck Hagel.

(on camera): And our number one tribute, Tim Howard time-travels from the World Cup to the Super Bowl.

(voice-over): a World Cup goalkeeper that saves Janet Jackson from her own malfunctioning cup.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE) LEMON: Did he really say I stick my face in front of? He did?

So many jokes. I won't do it, though.

That's it for me. Thank you so much for watching. Have a great 4th of July. I'll be back after then.

"AC360" starts right now.