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CNN LIVE EVENT/SPECIAL
Standing with France: The Unity Rally
Aired January 11, 2015 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NATALIE NOUGAYREDE, FORMER EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "LE MONDE": France has huge social, economic, political tensions and people have come together in a moment of reckoning that these tensions and these problems that exist in French society, unemployment, integration of the immigrant population, how to deal with Islam and the cohabitation between Islam and other religion in this secular republic, all these tensions that were brewing up for years now are leading, I hope, to a mobilization and to searching for ways of solving the deep-rooted problems that exist in France.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Natalie Nougayrede, the former editor-in-chief of "Le Monde" newspaper here in France -- thank you so much.
It is the top of the hour, 11:00 a.m. in the United States, 5:00 p.m. here in France. I'm along with Jake Tapper.
As this is a historic day for France, a tidal wave of humanity has come out to say no, no to the barbarism of what happened here January 7th, to the slaughter of innocent journalists, to the slaughter of innocent Jewish shoppers, and to a fundamental full body attack on the value that is France and our democratic societies give us, the values of democracy and freedom of speech and the respect for all minorities.
We continue the coverage of this massive march of all the world leaders who have been here led by President Francois Hollande who had so many of the world leaders here in the streets of France standing next to him were the German chancellor, arm in arm, he was with the president of Mali. He was with the prime minister of Israel, the president of the Palestinian authority, the prime ministers of his Western European nations, foreign ministers from all over the world, the president of Ukraine, the king and queen of Jordan and so many others, members of the African nations, the emir of Qatar and other emirates and sultans who came here.
And all along, as these leaders marched and showed unity, and rallied for an end to the kind of divisions and the kind of violence we have seen in France this week but also across the world over the last several years, that this fundamental freedom that we take for granted, democracy, the freedom of assembly, the freedom to speak, the freedom even to poke fun and offend, that is what is being defended here today. JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's talk about some of these images
we've seen, Christiane. In addition to this beautiful sea of humanity behind us, people of every possible belief system, color, we've also seen, as you say, these images of world leaders.
It's not a small thing for the king of Jordan, who as Fareed noted earlier is a direct descendant of the Prophet Muhammad. It's not a small thing for him to be walking in the same line as the prime minister of Israel protesting the terrorist acts committed against, (a), four Jews in a kosher supermarket, and (b), 12 people, most of whom were journalists of a publication that regularly mocks religions, including Islam. That is not a small thing.
We saw an image of Frederik Pleitgen in the crowd, talking to a young Muslim Frenchwoman holding a sign that said "I am a Jew." Obviously, she's not a Jew. She is expressing solidarity with Jews.
These are things I have never seen it before in my life.
AMANPOUR: It's extraordinary. I think you've seen it. I've seen it. We've talked to many of our colleagues here, members of this journalistic -- this is also about what we do. And I was so deeply moved by the foreign minister of this country who once even criticized the excesses to which "Charlie Hebdo" went, but he said nothing, nothing that they have ever done demands violence, and he said that democracy is not there without freedom and freedom is not there without freedom of the press.
So, this is a huge, you know, gathering of a fundamental answer to the attack on the fundamentals of our lives that we hold dear, which is freedom of the press, freedom of expression and the freedom of our minorities to live in peace.
TAPPER: And I would add, and I don't mean this as a criticism of the Obama administration, but as an American, I do wish that we were better represented in this beautiful procession of world leaders. The Attorney General Eric Holder has been here in France. He was previously scheduled to be here for a conference on extremism.
But I'm a little disappointed personally, this is me speaking personally, not as a representative of CNN, as an American, that there isn't more of a display of unity here, because this is one of the most incredible events I have ever attended, and the positivity that these people of France are expressing, this is not a rally -- even though there was an ugly racist element in this society as there is in every society, this is not a rally that is embracing jingoism, or anger, or any sort of hatred. This is a rally that is expressing brotherhood and sisterhood and it's a beautiful thing to behold.
AMANPOUR: President Obama called France America's oldest ally when he condemned this terrible attack on Wednesday. And the French have been extremely moved by the direct address to them by Secretary of State John Kerry in their own language, in fluent and lengthy France.
TAPPER: Absolutely. AMANPOUR: They were very moved, from the president, to the
foreign minister, to people who I spoke to in the streets. And so, this is an amazing time and they're taking a huge amount of support from all these people who have come out for them.
We're going to go now to Hala Gorani at the Place de la Nation end of this rally -- Hala.
HALA GORANI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Hi, Christiane and Jake.
Well, pretty much, the Place de la Nation is at capacity here. I can't imagine anybody is going to be able to squeeze into this very, very dense crowd.
You were talking, Jake, and I found it interesting as an American how you have not seen in your experience something as moving and as special as this. I can say as someone who knows Paris very well that you'd have to be extremely cold-hearted not to be moved by the displays of unity, by the messages there on all these signs behind me of understanding, of outreach between communities. You know, there will be days for cynicism in the next -- as we digest and take stock of what happened, but I don't think today is the day for that.
Let me just kind of tell our cameraman to zoom out here and I'm going to step out of the way. Let's see, we are all Charlie. This is Muslims, we are all Charlie.
If you are hear over the crowd, we are all victims of barbarity. "I am a Muslim, I am in mourning." Reads that sign. "For Charlie, for the police, for the Jews, for the Palestinians, and for my god Allah", reads that sign.
"I am Charlie, I am a cop, and I am Jewish", says that one.
This young man, very millennial, it is on his tablet which is switched on. Just a few minutes ago we were hearing also spontaneous eruptions of the French national anthem and after that applause rang out. Every once in a while people start applauding and I ask them, why the applaud? Is there something specific going on? They will just say it's just to show our solidarity with the victims of the attacks on Wednesday and then, of course, at that kosher supermarket on Friday, and also to send a message to the people outside of France that we will not allow terrorists to win.
Back to you.
AMANPOUR: Hala, thank you.
And we're going to go back to Bernard-Henri Levy, public intellectual and philosopher who has spoken to passionately about everything that's happened over the last several days.
Bernard, I wonder if you can comment what will happen on the day after this all of this. Yes, this is unity. Yes, this is a rally that's brought together all segments of the French population and according to a poll, 81 percent of French people I asked over the last several days are saying they're willing to mobilize against the kind of violence and the division that we've seen here over the last several days. But France has a problem with its very disenfranchised Muslim population.
Is that going to change?
BERNARD-HENRI LEVY, FRENCH PHILOSPHER: I think something really happened today and something changed today. The real test of this demonstration was the following: will the French Muslims of the Muslim French go down in the streets? The reply is yes.
I was myself surrounded and around me there were a lot of imams, there were a lot of French women and men whom I know and who are of Muslim origin. So, for the first time, the French Muslims did show their deep solidarity and brotherhood with the Jews of yesterday murdered at the Hyper Cacher and, of course, with the cartoonists who mocked Muhammad.
So this is the real event in French society. It's a real brick in our society. And there will not -- there is an after, after today.
AMANPOUR: As we keep watching these pictures of the Place de la Nation. All these people gathering there, also here, de la Republique, it's still jam packed, you said something earlier and someone else said to me as well, that France had started to lose its confidence and its faith in itself, that it felt it was more like a museum of ideas rather than relevant, contemporary.
Do you think what happened, not just the attack but the response to it, well remobilize the values that this country has given to the world and that we all now hold dear and know are under assault?
LEVY: Today, the other event of today, first event French Muslims in the street. Second event, the return of the confidence, of the self-confidence, of the self-esteem of France.
There was a self-depression. There was a sort of national depression since years. Today, something happened again on these grounds, return of the self-esteem.
All France saying, stop with the auto-flagellation. France is a great country. French unity is a thing to show to the world.
Another thing that has to be said, what happened today in Paris never happened anywhere in the world. I did not see that even in my dearest New York and my dear America after September 11, which was in a way much worse. You had thousands of innocents killed by September 11th. I did not see 43 chief of state and government moving to New York.
So, some say it's very strange, very enigmatic happened today. Why? The murder of some great cartoonists and the murder of four Jews did provoke this worldwide emotion. Why Abbas and Netanyahu? Why Merkel and Cameron? Why Matteo Renzi and America is gathering in Paris to be the mourning and the sorrow of these cartoonists and these Jews? My reply is there was a sense over the world that we were too
much indulgent with jihadism, that we underestimated the threat, that we minorized the threat.
Today, the whole world takes the opportunity for, I dare say, of this terrible tragedy to say stop indulgence. Stop weakness in front of jihadism. Stop considering jihadism as a product of misery or a product of social uneasiness.
Jihadism is a new fascism. The world is in Paris today to express this very simple and strong idea, and this is a great news of what is happening in Paris at this moment.
TAPPER: Monsieur Levy, we have seen so many moving images today, ranging from the young woman, the French Muslim holding a sign saying "I am a Jew" to Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister of Israel, and French President Francois Hollande going together to the Grand Synagogue that was closed for Sabbath services on Friday night because of the terrorist attack for the first time since World War II. We've seen many, many Muslims holding signs here saying not in my name and similar sentiments.
When you look back on this day, what image do you think you will think of?
LEVY: I'm sorry. I did not get the last word. The question, say it again? What, what?
TAPPER: Just when you think of today in the future, when you look back on this day --
TAPPER: -- what image most stays with you?
LEVY: When I think -- I believe that in the next days, in the next month, in the next years, we will have in our memory as an I image impossible to erase, this great image of all the leadership of the free world together to say in one voice, in same words, no to barbarity, no to neo-fascism. We are proud of our democratic values.
Another image is this young Muslim French woman who I heard few minutes ago saying that she was Charlie and that she was -- she felt deep solidarity with the four Jews assassinated yesterday. These images we never saw in any place.
And the 43 chiefs of state, which means one-fourth of the general assembly of the United Nations, this is an image which never happened anywhere.
This is not a pride for Paris. This is a pride for all those all over the world who want to make a stop to fascism, a stop to jihadism, a stop to our weakness in front. Weakness is over. This is what the world leadership has come in Paris to say and this is what the people are France has gone in the street to say also. Stop the weakness in front of jihadism. We will never, ever be weak again in France of this plague which is jihadism or fascist-Islamism.
AMANPOUR: Bernard-Henri Levy, thank you very much indeed.
LEVY: Thank you.
AMANPOUR: Now we are going to go to a break. We'll come back with a lot more of the discussion from here and of these amazing pictures from here. As we see more and more of the people who have been marching at the Place de la Nation, behind us at the Place de la Republique. People still carrying on.
TAPPER: Welcome back to CNN's live coverage of the unity rally, standing with France.
I'm Jake Tapper here in Paris, along with my colleague Christiane Amanpour, and we have been privileged to have spent the day watching this beautiful sea of humanity gather here at the Place de la Republique, a mass chant, sing, and then proceed led by world leaders from literally around the globe down to the other part of Paris in expression of solidarity with the people of France, with the victims of the terrorist attacks last week here in Paris.
AMANPOUR: And we've heard from guest after guest, from so many of the French people that we've been talking to today, how moved they are that so many world leaders have come here to offer their support and solidarity and to march with them in this unity rally.
TAPPER: Yes. And you will see the signs here. Here is a woman who is very eager. She accidentally hit you in the back of the head, "I am Charlie." That's the revealing sentiment.
Yes, some of the people found the sentiments expressed in this satirical newspaper on occasion, or maybe frequently, offensive, outrageous, blasphemous. That's not the issue. The issue is do they have the right to do it and was the terrorist response, the wholesale mindless slaughter of them the appropriate response.
And here, we see people, secular, Muslim, Jewish, a young Muslim woman holding a sign saying I am a Jew expressing solidarity with not only the people from the magazine, but with the four innocent Jews killed at the kosher supermarket on Friday. Really just one of the most moving things I have ever covered.
AMANPOUR: Indeed, and the prime minister of France and others have paid tribute to the police who were killed and just said that all of these who were targeted, they all represent France and for us, it's very personal. Obviously journalists were killed.
And, you know, a lot of the Muslims have said, yes, we did find these cartoons offensive but this was not the response ever. We don't condone that.
But, remember, France, unlike America, actually, has had a very, very long history of poking fun and offending people right to the very edge of their sensibility whether it's religions, all religious have been the targets of these magazines, whether it's politicians, whether it's celebrities. They all have been the target of these magazines, and, you know, France does not want to think that that ability to speak freely is going to be compromised. None of us wants to think that.
TAPPER: And the statue that we're standing here in front of at the Place de la Republique says liberty, equality, fraternity. And liberty is what everybody here is standing for. But truly, the fraternity, the brotherhood, the sisterhood, the commonality of humanity here is what has been so moving to be a part of.
AMANPOUR: It has. I do think in the interest of being brutally honest --
TAPPER: Do it.
AMANPOUR: There is a major problem within society here that is yet to be addressed and they'll have to start addressing it after today. You know, some French newspapers reported that on Thursday the minute of silence that was called by the president in a day of national mourning, teachers reported to the press that some of their Muslim students refused to accept or refused to observe that moment of silence.
Therefore, there is still a big problem in society, by no means the majority, but a significant and very troubling minority feels that this offense was too great and that they don't feel part of this culture. And they need -- all people here are saying that the government needs not just to crack down on terrorism here, not just to increase its security and intelligence, not just to take the fight to these people overseas but also to have some kind of cultural resolution here in France because that also does play a part in what we've been seeing.
TAPPER: Now you're getting complicated. I was trying -- but you're right. At the end of the day, you can have a parade with the leaders of the Palestinian Authority and Turkey and Jordan and Mali standing in the same row as the prime minister of Israel, but do they recognize Israel's right to exist? That's a question. You can march --
AMANPOUR: Here in France they do.
TAPPER: Well, France does, but do all those world leaders and Jordan does obviously, et cetera.
But the question is when push comes to shove beyond today, beyond this demonstration of solidarity, then as the cliche goes, the rubber hits the road and you actually have to do things and stake risks and what will happen then?
AMANPOUR: And another huge picture against which backdrop this has taken place, two things. One, the external reality of the slaughter of Muslims in Syria and now in Iraq again. This radicalizes, mobilizes, draws those who would do evil -- into these evil things. It just does.
AMANPOUR: It did during Afghanistan. It did during the Bosnia war, and it is during the Syria war.
All our law enforcement officials, many of our government officials in the Western world have been afraid for months and years that what's happening there will blow back here and that is happening.
TAPPER: And, in fact, we saw today one of the terrorists, the perpetrator behind -- I'm actually kind of sick of saying his name.
AMANPOUR: Amedy Coulibaly.
TAPPER: No, I know it. I feel like I say the terrorists' names more than the victims' names and I don't like doing that.
Anyway, he -- there was a video released, he's obviously dead, this is the man who killed the police officer on Thursday, the French policewoman and then the four innocent French Jews in the kosher supermarket on Friday. A video was released of him professing his allegiance to ISIS, calling himself the soldier of the caliphate, which comes on the heels of news that the two other -- the brothers who committed the attack on Wednesday against "Charlie Hebdo," that they declared themselves allegiance to a different terrorist organization, al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.
AMANPOUR: So, important, I think Coulibaly's family came out and condemned the terrorism.
And, you know, we talk and we did talk for so long, and we have been today. But the families of the "Charlie Hebdo" journalists who were killed came out. I remember the words of Stephane Charbonnier. And it's so sad, you know, that he said with my pen I don't give offense or the kind of offense that harms people. I don't kill people with my pen.
And that has mobilized again the French people to be out in the streets for the last several days holding their pens up, holding their pens up because in the end the pen is mightier than the sword and we have to remember that.
Let's go to Jim Bittermann who is over at Place de la Nation right now where the bulk of the unity rally has moved to.
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Christiane, the operative word there "has moved to" I'm not sure is too accurate because this place, this square, the square of the nation filled up very early on, and as a consequence it's very difficult for any more people to get in here. I think the parade has turned into something of a stand-in but -- because it's just difficult for people to move or get into this location. Now, I want to bring into the picture here Siam (ph), yes, who
has been a long-time Paris resident, worn in morocco but now French nationality. Off sign here that indicates to me clearly that you are a Muslim.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I am.
BITTERMANN: And why did you want to come out today?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because it's impossible for me not to come, to be solidarity to those people who died those days and to show that as Muslim that Islam is not that. Islam is peace. Islam is fraternity but not terrorism and war.
BITTERMANN: Do you think there's confusion about that in France? Do you think that people associate and make an amalgam between radicalism and Islam?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that those people who make this wants that, want that they can easily find weak people to come and to do so terrible action in every countries.
BITTERMANN: What do you think the role of a moderate Muslim should be? Someone who, like yourself, who opposes -- what should you do and what should other moderates and, maybe the imams, what should they do in this kind of situation?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think they have to say that there is really a big difference between Islam and terrorists and Islam -- it's not the same thing. It's really -- the first victim of terrorism, Islamic terrorism are Muslims in countries like Iraq, Syria. And we can't make -- we can't mix those two things.
BITTERMANN: Now --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's the role of the people to talk face to the world and to say it's not the same. We are not terrorists.
BITTERMANN: But the two -- three terrorists that are involved were -- had French passports. They were born here in France.
Is there enough being done in the suburbs and in the tough neighborhoods of France to integrate the young Muslims into the community?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think we can do better. I think things can be done better, because it won't be -- be -- happen if it was perfect, but nothing can be perfect.
BITTERMANN: Are you surprised that there are so many young people that are vulnerable -- vulnerable to being radicalized?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, yes. I am very surprised and I am very sad of that.
BITTERMANN: Very good. Thank you very much. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
BITTERMANN: Have a great evening.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
BITTERMANN: OK, Christiane and Jake, back to you.
AMANPOUR: Jim, thank you.
And we do have news. CNN has found out that a Belgian newspaper, "Le Soir," has received a bomb threat for its role in reprinting some of the "Charlie Hebdo" cartoons.
TAPPER: That's right. And the newspaper has been evacuated. This is, of course, the second possible incident tied to the cartoons.
Earlier today, there was an incident involving a fire and a German newspaper. The newspaper also had printed -- reprinted the "Charlie Hebdo" cartoons after the terrorist attack on Wednesday. We're going to continue to stay on top of that event at "Le Soir," a newspaper in Belgium.
I also want to bring your attention to the fact French President Francois Hollande is currently meeting with the family of Ahmed Merabet. He's the police officer, Muslim and French, who was killed on Wednesday at the site of the "Charlie Hebdo" terrorist attack. President Hollande of France currently meeting with his family.
We're going to take a very quick break. There's a lot more breaking news to discuss and report on and, of course, just the participation here of so many people from so many different walks of life in Paris -- back after this break.
AMANPOUR: Back here live in Paris. I'm Christiane Amanpour, along with Jake Tapper.
And this has been a historic day for France, as people turn out in their hundreds of thousands -- millions have been expected -- to say no to the barbarism that afflicted this country on Wednesday and in the last few days.
People have come out from all walks of life, from all sections of society to say, we won't surrender, we are not afraid, and we will not allow this to change our way of life -- Jake.
TAPPER: It has really been quite a moving day, as we have seen so many different kinds of people representing secularism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam coming out saying, we will not be cowed by these terrorist attacks.
But as the sun sets here in the City of Lights, we do want to bring you up to speed on some of the developments when it comes to the investigation into these horrific terrorist attacks last week in Paris.
For instance, it was released this morning a video of one of the terrorists professing allegiance to ISIS, the terrorist group, the Islamic State, and its leader, al-Baghdadi, calling himself a soldier of the caliphate.
We are going to go now to Atika Shubert, who I believe is at the location of the supermarket hostage-taking and terrorist act, the four innocent Jewish men killed there on Friday.
Atika, what can you tell us? What is the latest in the investigation into these terrorist acts?
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the latest we have in that investigation -- and they're still really piece -- putting the pieces together of what is a puzzle essentially is how they carried out these attacks and how much preplanning was involved.
It now appears that Coulibaly may have done more than shoot the police officer and then take the supermarket hostage. He may have also shot a jogger on that same day, wounding him, not killing him, and also possibly put a small explosive into a car near a Jewish neighborhood.
It seems to be a string of attacks that he carried out and that he did so in conjunction with the Kouachi brothers, who murdered those 12 people at the "Charlie Hebdo" office. We know this because of a video that has been circulating in which Coulibaly apparently declares -- swears allegiance to ISIS.
In that video, he rambles quite a bit and talks about the grievances he feels against the Muslim world and what he considers justification for carrying out those attacks. Now, it has to be said, you know, this has been going the rounds on the Internet, but ISIS has not said he's a member, a fully-fledged member of ISIS or anything like that.
So we don't know the exact connection at this point, but those are the latest developments that have come out of the investigation. In the meantime, where I am, just meters away from the market, you can see the enormous crowds of people.
The market is over there, but there are so many people. Thousands of them have come here, because we're not that far from the end of that march at the Place de la Nation, that people have been spilling over here to pay their respects, put flowers and candles, and there have been so many, in fact, that they have been overflowing into this area here.
And this is where I'm standing. And you can see all the candles and flowers here, all the people putting messages that say "Je suis Juif," "I am a Jew," "I am Jewish." And I have been seeing people here from all walks of life, not just the Jewish community, but we have seen people from everywhere across Paris wishing to show their solidarity for the victims, especially here, the targeted Jewish victims of this attack. AMANPOUR: And Atika, it's Christiane.
As well as these videos that have been released, the police have said that they have raided Coulibaly's stash, the apartment that he apparently rented up until today in a suburb close to Paris and found all sorts of stuff there.
SHUBERT: Yes. In fact, it's astonishing how much weaponry was apparently stockpiled.
We're talking about a number of automatic weapons, explosives, pistols, and even grenades. So, this is a stockpile of weapons found outside sort of in the suburbs of Paris, in addition to the ones that were found inside the supermarket which he had. And the Kouachi brothers as well had, again, automatic weapons, grenades and other weapons.
So the key question for investigators is, how did they get all of these weapons? This is a country where it's very difficult to get a handgun, much less an AK-47. So how were they able to accumulate this? Who else may have helped them carry out these attacks?
TAPPER: All right, Atika Shubert.
Christiane, one of the things that's interesting also is at that apartment where they found the stash of automatic weapons and an ISIS flag and money and more, French investigators are also trying to determine if there's forensic evidence to determine whether or not Hayat Boumeddiene, his girlfriend, the woman who is wanted and is now apparently in Syria, whether she was there recently at all.
AMANPOUR: Right. And I think that's important because obviously in the last few days, we saw her picture all over the place, and for a while people thought she was in the market or that she was at the killing of the policewoman on Thursday that Coulibaly perpetrated.
A law enforcement officer said that it's clear from his perspective now that Coulibaly was the ringleader of this, not the Kouachi brothers.
TAPPER: Very, very interesting, and it has yet to be determined whether or not Hayat Boumeddiene even knew about what happened, much less was a part of it.
I want to go now to my colleague Fareed Zakaria, the host of "GPS."
Fareed, there have been so many moving images, moving moments at this unity rally today, this unity march. I'm wondering what has struck you the most.
FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, clearly, Jake, the most important ones and the most moving ones have been the signs from ordinary French Muslims, which have said things like, "Je suis Juif," "I am a Jew," or in various ways expressed solidarity. It's important that you had the leaders of major Muslim
countries, Turkey, Jordan, the Palestinian Authority, there, but to see ordinary French citizens who happen to be Muslim there was a very powerful symbol and a reminder that France, which has perhaps the largest Muslim population in Europe, five million people, has many, many. And the vast majority are not only integrated, but highly secular.
French society is very secular. It's been an old tradition that dates from the revolution. And French Muslims are no different. There is a radical fringe. And perhaps France has a somewhat larger radical fringe than others. But this is the two Frances, the one, the vast majority of French Muslims who are integrated who finally we heard from.
We had only heard from the radical extremists. And now we heard from the much larger group of moderate French Muslims who realized that they had to get out there and start saying something. I think that was the most moving thing for me, to hear those interviews with those French Muslims.
And I think it will powerfully resonate, because it will make moderate Muslims all over the world realize that they have to stand up and be counted. They cannot allow their religion to get hijacked, and perhaps again Paris is the beginning, as I say, of something.
You know, when I have said this in the past -- and I already see it on my Twitter feed -- people say, well, we have been doing it. Yes, but the problem is, they keep doing it. In other words, the extremists keep using violence and using the name of Islam, and so the moderates have to keep reaffirming their moderation and criticizing, disassociating and condemning it.
You can't just do it once, because those guys, the bad guys keep killing. And as long as they keep killing, the moderates have to keep standing up.
TAPPER: And, Fareed, Christiane and I were discussing earlier in our coverage here of the unity rally in Paris, it was on January 1 that the ruler of Egypt, the president of Egypt, General Sisi, called in the clerics in Egypt and said that there needs to be a reformation of sorts, that Islamic extremism needs to stop, not to say that there shouldn't be pious and devout Muslims, but that this branch of extremist Islam that embraces terrorism needs to be rooted out.
That seems like a very significant development, to have the leader of this very influential and important Arab and Muslim country to say such a thing.
ZAKARIA: It was very important. It would be even better if the president of Egypt were not shutting down magazines and jailing journalists at the very same time he seems to be affirming freedom in other ways.
It's probably more important, Jake, to hear from the elected leaders of Muslim-majority countries. The president of Indonesia, after all, represents 275 million Muslims. That's more than the entire Arab world put together, almost. It's very important that Turkey be there, because that is, again, an elected democracy.
So, you know, you compare these few extremists and their so- called leaders, Baghdadi and al-Zawahri, who nobody elected, who have perhaps a few thousand followers, and who cannot put together a demonstration like this.
After all, that's why they use terrorism, because they cannot win in any free or fair fight. So if you contrast those extremists and terrorists with people who have been given power by hundreds and millions of Muslims, if those people, those elected leaders were to stand up and say, not in my name, it becomes all the more powerful, because they do represent the vast majority of Muslims, and these extremists do not.
Nobody votes for them. When there have been elections, they have done very poorly. And so I think that, again, this might represent the beginning of people recognizing that, you know, they have to be more active in various ways, not just practicing a form of moderate Islam, but actually articulating it and denouncing the extremists.
TAPPER: Excellent points, all, especially perhaps the point about the fact that these terrorists, these extremists cannot win a battle of ideas, and that is the only way they can win is in the short term by intimidating and scaring innocent people, by attacking innocent people, people like the 12 who were killed in the magazine attack at "Charlie Hebdo" last Wednesday, including a Muslim policeman, whose family is mourning him.
And the French president, Francois Hollande, meeting with his family this afternoon. The French policewoman killed on Thursday, the four Jewish French people, Frenchmen killed at the kosher supermarket on Friday, those 17 innocent people whose names are on signs and on shirts and on pieces of paper throughout this crowd, it's been very moving.
Fareed Zakaria, thank you so much.
Christiane, you know, as we stand here, I know you have been to so many important events in Europe. And I'm wondering if this reminds you of anything, if you have ever seen anything like it. The closest thing I have ever seen in the United States is very, very different, but it's the same kind of -- after bin Laden was killed, there was a spontaneous -- spontaneous chanting outside the White House, yes.
AMANPOUR: I remember, yes, "USA."
And all over, in New York as well, "USA." Here, it was "liberty." For a moment, I thought they were shouting "USA." The cadence was the same.
TAPPER: Yes, so did I.
AMANPOUR: But that's what this is about.
You put your finger on the button right there, that, in numbers, it is not the same as 9/11, but in the shock to the system, it is the same, as you have heard Bernard-Henri Levy, as you heard Natalie Nougayrede, as you saw the cover of "Le Monde" newspaper. This was France's 9/11.
And we had it in England in 2005, 7/7. But, remember, when al Qaeda and the terrorists did that there, it was against civilians. They went and they, you know, attacked -- attacked transportation, the trains, the buses. In Spain a few years before, they attacked the trains there as well.
That was considered, even if I hate to say that, slightly more random, just terrorizing the population. This here was specifically targeted at our community, people whose job it is to uphold democracy by being the pillar of democracy, of free press, with freedom of expression, and the Jewish community.
And at the same time, this is happening amidst a rising Islamophobia. It's incredibly complicated, what is happening here in France. But I have never seen such an outpouring as this. In Spain, after the big train attacks, there was a million people marching after that in 2004.
But this seems to have put such a point on what we're facing in society right now.
TAPPER: You know, one other point that Chris Cuomo made the other day was that he had been talking to some counterterrorism officials.
Tell us what's going on right here. Are they singing the national anthem again? What are they singing?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
AMANPOUR: Well, now they're cheering. They keep breaking into various chants.
TAPPER: CNN's Chris Cuomo had been talking to counterterrorism officials. And they had noted that the attacks on mosques, the attack on a halal kabab shop, that's what the terrorists want.
They want French society to turn against moderate Islam. And it doesn't look like that is happening, other than a handful of horrible events.
When we come back, we're going to talk much more about this wonderful day in France and then the much more complicated task of, where does France go from here?
Back after this.
AMANPOUR: The world is standing with France today.
And pictures now live from Trafalgar Square in London prove that. Two huge illuminated -- the French national flag on the sides of the National Gallery in London, right there, Trafalgar Square.
And Trafalgar Square was one of the places around Europe and around the world where people flooded to on Wednesday night, as they did here to the Place de la Republique, in shock and horror at what had happened at the headquarters of "Charlie Hebdo."
Now here, behind us, people are still here. The official march, the rally has ended. And yet it is almost like a party now. People are still chanting. They're still out there. They're still blowing all sorts of wind instruments and waving their signs and their flags. The world leaders led by President Francois Hollande have gone back from the march to Elysee Palace, Jake.
TAPPER: And Francois Hollande, as we know, did two other things after he led the march.
First of all -- he did many other things, but two that we know of. One is, he and the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, went to the Grand Synagogue here in Paris, the synagogue that suspended its Sabbath services Friday night, after terrorist attack at the kosher supermarket.
That's the first time they had suspended synagogue activities on a Sabbath since World War II, so Hollande going there with Netanyahu, very significant. And then the other move, Francois Hollande meeting with the family of the Muslim police officer who had been killed in the attack on the "Charlie Hebdo" offices, editorial offices last Wednesday.
And, Christiane, you and I have been speaking a lot about how the attack on "Charlie Hebdo" was a direct attack on freedom of the press, a direct attack on liberty, which is one of the three things that the statue behind us stands for.
And the fact that they are now making a move to try to publish again is so significant and moving.
AMANPOUR: And they have to. From the very beginning, the leaders of France, from the president to foreign minister to the prime minister, said "Charlie Hebdo" has to survive, not just an attack on freedom of the press.
These people want to shut down any commentary that dissents from their world view, any commentary. And from the journalists who are slaughtered in the deserts of Syria by the ISIS militants to what happened in "Charlie Hebdo," this is a continuum. They want nothing but what they want to hear.
And so all these French media establishments have got together in a show of real unity. And they are allowing "Charlie Hebdo" to -- well, providing the means for the remaining staff of "Charlie Hebdo" to actually put out one million copies on Wednesday, its normal publication day, which is about 50 times than its normal circulation.
And the first meeting of the editorial staff was at the offices of "La Liberation," the French newspaper, here. And it is true and it's been pointed out that "Charlie Hebdo" pushed the envelope, published cartoons that to many were offensive, outrageous, blasphemous, racist, I have even heard.
It is also important to point out that some of the cartoons that are being criticized as racist or offensive were ones that were mocking not Islam, but Islamic extremists. There is in 2006 a famous cover of Mohammed covering his face, lamenting the fact that so many, for want of a better word, jerks were taking his name in vain.
I want to bring in Brian Stelter right now. He's the CNN senior media reporter, also host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES," which airs here on Sunday.
Brian, what are you hearing about the preparations to publish "Charlie Hebdo," a new edition, up to a million copies on Wednesday?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're working on it all throughout this weekend and preparing to send it to the printer, so that it will come out there on Wednesday, and not just in Paris, even plans to release it in other countries.
As you were describing, that million-copy run may end up even being more than that. And, of course, you will imagine so many people will also see it on the Internet. I think it's notable that the National Union of Journalists helped lead the march this afternoon, the one that we are now seeing.
That was one of the groups that led this today, along with the world leaders we're seeing. And we can show you a photo, a really emotional photo of two of the surviving staff members from the magazine.
On the left is a cartoonist. He is said to be the only surviving cartoonist left at the magazine. And on the right is a columnist for the magazine, clearly an emotional moment between them at the rally. And I also saw, Jake, a child's sign in the crowd earlier. Translated from French, it said: "When I grow up, I will be a journalist. I'm not afraid."
And this comes amid the backdrop of a couple of threats at other news outlets today. You described earlier the bomb threat in Brussels, in Belgium. That newspaper evacuated its offices. And they are now working out of a nearby hotel to get the paper out tonight.
That is a newspaper, like others in Europe, that did reprint some of the controversial Mohammed cartoons from "Charlie Hebdo." We don't know if there is a link, of course, between that bomb threat and the printing of those cartoons, but we know that bomb threat was called in. And we know about a German newspaper in Hamburg where there was
an incendiary device thrown into the offices of that newspaper overnight. There were no injuries, but it seemed like an attempted arson. There have been two arrests in that case. Again, that newspaper did show some of the Mohammed cartoons.
AMANPOUR: Brian and Jake, that cartoonist, his name is Luz.