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Blizzard Warnings Up Again From The Midwest To Maine; ISIS Fighters Assault Air Base With U.S. Military Personnel In It; Call For Justice For Three Muslims Murdered Execution-Style In North Carolina; School In Southern California Faces Controversy From Teaching Islam; Measles Fast Spreading; Supreme Justices Getting Along; David Carr Dead at 58; Changing Face of Journalism; Trivia Game for President's Day

Aired February 13, 2015 - 20:00   ET


JOHN BERMAN, CNN GUEST HOST: Good evening. John Berman here sitting in for Anderson. And we do begin with breaking news.

Blizzard warnings up again for a whole lot of people tonight. People thought the recent one two punch, actually, one two three punch that buried them in three feet of snow and more in some places, they thought it might be it for a while. No.

On the way, more snow, hurricane force winds and now bitter, bitter cold. So from the Midwest to Maine, tens of millions of people including those poor souls in Boston are getting ready to face it all over again.

Let's bring in Ivan Cabrera in the weather center in Atlanta. He's followed all the watches and warnings.

Ivan, how bad is it going to be?

IVAN CABRERA, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I think it is actually has the potential damn to be worse than the last storm. Not because of how much snowfall but because of the wind. Anywhere from 65 to 75 miles an hour. And that's going to be an issue here with the wind along the coast and the potential for coastal flooding and power outages. These blizzard extend all the out to 495. If you're familiar with the area, that's about 40 miles west of Boston. So this is going to be a high impact storm and that is going to be the case through the day on Saturday night and heading into Sunday especially.

Look at these winds that we're forecasting here, 55 to 65 for Boston, 65 to 75 for Nantucket and for the rest of the islands too. And then as far as the snowfall, it's going to be coming down sideways. Look at this, 15 to 18 inches. Down east Maine are going to get the worst of if as far the heaviest snow. But Boston, looking at eight to one to ten.

But if you saw this map, doesn't tell you the whole story. Those eight to ten inches, again, are going to coming down with the kinds of winds that are going to be causing significant problems. I think we are going to have power outages unlike what we saw with the last storm here. So you have to watch this closely.

The windchills as well, anywhere from 10 below to 30 below zero. That's the way it's going to feel to exposed skin as you head out Saturday night into Sunday. So this is going to be very dangerous storm because of the winds and because of the cold air that's going to be with us as well.

There's the timing there Sunday, really getting going. This thing is going to bomb out as we call it east of Cape Cod and that's going to continue as we head through the day on Monday with gusty winds. Take a look at the windchills. Again, for Boston inland, anywhere from five to 10 to as much as 20 below zero. So if you have valentine's plans, either postpone them or do them very early and Saturday is my advice to you.

BERMAN: Stay warm.

All right. It's going to be bad. It's going to be windy. Hurricane force winds. Thank you so much, Ivan. Really appreciate it.

We do have more breaking news right now. U.S. helicopter gunships deploy against ISIS in western Iraq as we speak. Today, ISIS fighters assaulted an air base with several hundred U.S. military personnel have been training Iraqi forces. The Iraqis pushed back that attack but ISIS is now in a pitch battle in a key neighboring town and the threat to U.S. forces say Pentagon officials, is real and it is ongoing.

Want to bring chief international security correspondent Jim Sciutto.

Jim, explain to me who exactly these gunships are after right now, where are they engaging?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're told by the Pentagon that earlier today when ISIS forces were assaulting al-Assad air base that the U.S. deploy apache gunships to help repel that assault. And that assault, Iraqi forces on the ground will able to repel it on their own and those gunships didn't have to fire a shot.

But now, we're told tonight by military sources on the ground of military gunships engaging ISIS forces in Baghdadi in which the Pentagon now says it's contested. Early in the day, they said they have been taking over by ISIS troops. And now it is contested, means that Iraqi forces are fighting back there. They have air support. It appears in close combat. And with that deployment earlier in the day of U.S. apaches, it just shows, John, how significant a threat this is to deployed gunships. And what is it, you know, it's not a ground combat role but it is a combat role and there's real danger there.

BERMAN: No, and it different. They're there because they need to be there, Jim. Is there a sense that they are necessary for the safety of the military personnel at that base?

SCIUTTO: I think that's the reason you wouldn't deploy them if you didn't think they weren't necessary. Now, Pentagon officials caution all times during this assault earlier today that those U.S. military personnel, there are some 300 of them and additional 100 coalition personnel at al-Assad. If they were a number of kilometers away because this al-Assad base is so big, it is like a Colorado, the attack to place on one side and they were on the other side.

But listen, with Baghdadi just next door, the neighboring town under ISIS control, Pentagon officials are now acknowledge that, you know, the threat is ongoing because ISIS could attack tomorrow. They could attack the next day. You know, they're in a good position there to threaten the base with the U.S. forces are now.

BERMAN: You know, they are all kinds of terminology being tossed around in Washington about enduring missions, combat missions, ground combat missions, offensive combat missions. The fact of the matter is this shows that U.S. troops are very much in danger.

SCIUTTO: In addition, Bobby Goesh said earlier today, our analyst, he said that the administration has been economical with the facts about U.S. combat, you know, U.S. proximity to combat.

I mean, the fact is they are not ground combat forces. They don't have a combat mission. But as you have more military forces forward deployed, they're now in four bases outside of Baghdad at al-Assad, in Tagi (ph) just south of Baghdad and up in Erbil. And when you look at the map, those forward deploy bases are close to areas where ISIS has both territory and as ISIS carried out attacks. So, you know, if they're not in combat, you are certainly moving them closer to combat and Admiral Kirby acknowledged this today. And you do that, they're certainly facing more danger.

BERMAN: All right, Jim Sciutto, thank you so much.

Let's talk about the risk, let's talk about the reasons this is happening. I want to bring in former CIA officer and Middle East expert (ph), Bob Bart. Also joining us, retired army lieutenant general Mark Hurtling who knows that region very well.

General, let me start with these helicopter gunships now in combat in that part of Iraq. What are their capabilities and what are the risks of using this type of weaponry? These helicopters fly at a lower altitude than the aircrafts in the bombing runs.

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well John, they give you some distinct capabilities that you don't get from aircraft. They're going to loiter in the area for a much longer period of time. Their optics are extremely good. You can see anywhere from five to ten kilometers with the optics in some of these type of aircraft. They have weapon packages that consist not only of guns but rockets and held by iron missiles as well.

One of the things that they have a standoff capability. They can stay back from the fight and still see what's going on and launch things at it. But one of the more important things they have is a lazing capability. So an aircraft can stay away from the fight. It could actually hover over or at least close to al-Assad air base, see into the town of al-Baghdadi, which is really not a town. It is a small mud had village along the banks of the Euphrates so it is not a big city. And then they could just pick up targets to allow lazing of those targets so air force or Navy aircraft could actually hit targets with better weapons system from a higher altitude.

So it's a pretty good team. It's called a joint air attack team and it's a pretty good capability with attack aircraft in the area.

BERMAN: And Bob, the 300 military personnel or so, could be more, who are at that base training the Iraqis, isn't this the type of scenario that was feared by many people, that the U.S. troops on the ground there would get themselves or be at risk because of ISIS, because of ISIS intentions?

ROBERT BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, John, I think what we're seeing here is mission creep. And the Iraqi army is not up to the task. And without the United States air force and the military on the ground, a lot of these, you know, bases would be overrun.

On the side of Baghdad, you have some Shia militias. But they alone are not going to drive in to Anbar province. And that Kurds aren't would do it either. So without the U.S. in the balance, it's who knows how far the Islamic state could get.

They are clearly on in offensive. They hit al-Baghdadi. Took it this morning, 90 percent. They are moving around Tikrit (ph) and other parts of western Iraq and they still have stronghold on the Arab Sunnis of Iraq without the U.S. in there. Who knows which way this battle could go.

BERMAN: Well, General, which way is the battle going to go? The Iraq military right now, how good are they? Do they now have the training to battle ISIS? They were able to push them back from the initial assault on the air base.

HURTLING: Well, I disagree with Bob a little bit. I think the Iraqi army has gotten a bad rap, John. And I fought with and trained with Sunni and Sunni Shiite Kurds elements of the Iraqi army. And what I will suggest is both the units in Anbar and the units in northern Iraq, became dysfunctional because, a, they weren't paid. B, they had extremely poor leaders and c, they didn't have the support of the government. So they fell apart.

I think you would do the same thing if you weren't being paid and not supported by your bosses and somebody came in and said they were going to cut your head off. They are growing back. The leadership is getting better. Mr. Al-Abadi had basically washed the side, all of the Shia proxy commanders that were in-charge as the generals. He has put new people in charge. But it's going to take time. It is going to take time. And by the way, the people training at al-Assad air base, the ones, the marines they're actually working with are Sunni tribes men.

This is the new National Guard initiative Mr. Al-Abadi has put together. That they are going to fight for the tribal areas in western Iraq. So I think the Iraqi government is getting it back together. And yes, they do need help from coalition forces, U.S. forces right now. But they're coming around and they realize what a scourge this organization is. I'm actually glass half full on this.

BERMAN: Bob, let me ask you quickly here. This is all happening in Iraq where there are Iraqi ground troops, where there are American troops there training. And ISIS is battling at least to a standstill in some cases. How does that bode for what's happening in Syria where there's no coalition ground presence to speak of?

BAER: Well, you know, if you're looking, if you're a top fearing Muslim, the Islamic state is the only in town and you see thousands of recruits flowing in from Saudi Arabia, Central Asia.

This morning, bases were taken over by Al-Qaeda. Some of those Al- Qaeda groups sworn allegiance to the Islamic state. So, you know, I still look at the Islamic state as a disease, an epidemic. Which you really can't judge the speed of. And as General Hurtling said, do we have enough time to train the Iraqi army? And the fact, he's absolutely right. That Malaki, the previous prime minister bankrupted the army. And so, how do we repair it and how fast can we do it?

BERMAN: Bob Baer, General Mark Hurtling, thanks so much for being with us. really appreciate it, gentlemen.

As always, quick reminder, make sure to set your DVR so you can watch "360" whenever you'd like.

Next, the woman who spoke eloquently with Anderson about the murder of her brother speaks out again in which she calls it open season against Islam. Her words in the latest on the chapel hill murder investigation. That's coming up.

And later, you've heard all the grown-ups argue about measles and the measles outbreak. We'll introduce you to the four-month old living, breathing example of why measles is so scary.


BERMAN: A call for justice tonight from a North Carolina woman who lost three people very dear to her including her kid brother. When Suzanne Barakat spoke with Anderson on Wednesday, she said she was still in shocked at the execution-style murder of her brother, Deah, his new bride and her sister.

Today, after the memorial of last night that so many outpouring of support from the Muslim community to which she belongs, but also the entire community, Miss Barakat talked with Jake Tapper. She said the killing was not about a long running parking dispute as local police said and while thanking people for seeing three as the Americans they were, she also said this.


DR. SUZANNE BARAKAT, DEAH BARAKAT'S SISTER: And it's currently an open season -- a time where it is an open season against Islam, Muslims in Washington, Muslims in general, media, dehumanizing Muslims in movies like "American Sniper." It's incredibly inspiring right now to see that Deah, Yusor and Razan's love for their country is being reciprocated.


BERMAN: The FBI is now investigating these murders. Earlier today, President Obama offered his condolences.

Joining us with more on the investigation, Jason Carroll in Chapel Hill.

Jason, what's the very latest?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the investigation is still looking very much like this was a case of a man who had a grudge over parking spaces. He took that grudge out on a number of people in the neighborhood. The question that a lot of people are asking who support the victims is why did he turn all of his rage and violence on this one particular family? That's what one young woman is asking herself tonight. She heard the gunfire when it happened and called 9- 1-1.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just keep hearing their screams in my head and it's weird for me because it's like, I heard them alive and then I heard them struggling. And then I heard them dead. And it's really emotional.


BERMAN: So you spoke to other neighbors, Jason, about this alleged shooter. Had they had run-ins with him?

CARROLL: Yes, a lot of emotion from a number of neighbors. And one neighbor in particular, Derek Schuh, did have a particular run-in with the suspect when he parked in the wrong spot. Basically said the suspect became agitated with him.

And it wasn't just with neighbors that he had a problem with. In fact, at one point, John, he called a tow truck company so many times that the tow truck company considered him a nuisance and stopped responding to his calls.

BERMAN: And there were new warrants issued today. What's that all about?

CARROLL: That's correct. Police were able to confiscate several weapons from the suspect's home. This is something that they expected when law enforcement source telling CNN that under questioning, he admitted that he was a gun enthusiast and that there were guns in the home. And that the guns were legally owned.

BERMAN: All right, Jason Carroll for us in Chapel Hill. Jason, thanks so much.

Whatever the final outcome turns to be, there is no denying the larger proposition that tension often exists where Islam in American meets non-Muslim in America. At the very least, there is friction and sometimes there are sparks.

Case in point, a school in southern California that, like many across the country, teaches about the world's major religions, Islam included.

Reporting for CNN, here's Ann-Marie Anderson.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whether it's Allah, whether it is be Jehovah, Jesus Christ, (INAUDIBLE), Buddha, you start having a child right at any specific religion, it's the one true God. That's when you cross the line.

ANN-MARIE ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Keith Johnson and Judy Diatela moved to Manhattan Beach, California last summer, they were thrilled their 12-year-old son would be attending the top ranked public middle school in the state. But last fall, their child came to them with a homework assignment they found unsettling.

KEITH JOHNSON, FATHER: One of the things they had to write was Allah is the one true God. People submit to Allah. Now teaching history there, that's prophesying (ph).

JUDY DIATELA, MOTHER: It was -- there was teaching the faith.

ANDERSON: They are not alone in their concerns. Across the country, some parents are objecting to their children being taught about Islamic principles in school.

In Maryland, a father was banned from the grounds at his daughter's high school after his opposition to a class about Islam turned into a heated argument.

In North Carolina, a facebook video of a woman objecting to what she called religious language in a high school vocabulary test went viral.

A November school board meeting in Florida addressing the Islam issue was postponed amid security concerns.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're testing equality for all religions or take them all out.

ANDERSON: In California, the Johnsons removed their son from the seventh grade social sciences class for three weeks until the Islam portion of the class was complete. And brought their objections to the Manhattan Beach school district board meeting in December. Superintendent Mike Matthews defends the curriculum and maintains it falls within the state frame work.

MIKE MATTHEWS, SUPERINTENDENT: We are teaching about the religions, not preaching about the religions.

ANDERSON: What was the point of this? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were saying the five pillars of Islam and

he supposed to write them down and write the Shahada, the declaration of faith. And so he even said to him, it seems weird. You know, he didn't feel comfortable doing it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Schools generally don't have to make any students comfortable with the curriculum.

ANDERSON: David Cruz is a constitutional law expert at the University of Southern California.

DAVID CRUZ, CONSTITUTIONAL LAW EXPERT: If the school is being objective about something and not the supposed truth of religious principles, then it's largely legal obligations.

ANDERSON: The family emphasizes they have no objection to their son learning the history of any religion. But say that by spending so much time and delved so deeply into the faith of Islam, a line has been crossed.

JOHNSON: The children are coming home, Buddha is the one true God. Allah is one true God. And then you are presuming at all equal, it wasn't. It's a different playing field, OK. Because then you are giving the child an equal opportunity, an equal chance to choose.

ANDERSON: But Matthews insists there's no extra emphasis on Islam and that his district followed the law.

MATTHEWS: Just because a student is writing something down, they do it to help them remember it, it doesn't mean they are being ask to believe it.

ANDERSON: Not good enough for Judy Diatela and Keith Johnson. They have hired an attorney and are considering their legal options.

Ann-Marie Anderson for CNN, Los Angeles.


BERMAN: Up next, a face of the measles outbreak. A four-month old baby who got the virus, his parents outraged how he got injected in the first place.

Plus, now we know why Supreme Court justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg had a little nap during the state of the union address. The over 21 answer when "360" continues.


BERMAN: No signs tonight that the Measles outbreak is slowing down. According to the CDC, so far they released 121 cases nationwide. Most of them linked to Disneyland. There are fears tonight that that number will rise. California health officials warned thousands of riders of the San Francisco area Bart subway system that they may have been exposed to measles. An infected man on six trains last week. Meanwhile, a four month old baby who went to Disneyland got infected

and his parents are now concerned that they exposed a lot of people at restaurants and other places before they knew their son was ill.

Gary Tuchman has their story.


GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is what the measles outbreak in California looks like. A four month old baby named Mobius Loop, too young to have the measles vaccine, but not too young to have the measles.

These are pictures of Mobius that his parents took just last week.

ARIEL LOOP, MOTHER OF MEASLES' VICTIM: It was just shocking. I think I am still kind of stunned about all that. It's hard to believe the first time he got sick, he got measles.

TUCHMAN: Ariel and Christopher Loop who live in Pasadena, California have just been able to take their only child out of home isolation after he contracted a virus after a visit to Disneyland. It was on January 31st, 13 days after their visit to Disney that Ariel noticed --

A. LOOP: He's been rubbing his eyes a lot so I was thinking that maybe he had allergies or something. I was going through a list of maybe what I'd eaten because he's breast-fed or if we used new soaps or, you know, anything new.

TUCHMAN: But you weren't thinking measles?

A. LOOP: Not that night.

TUCHMAN: But Mobius developed a high fever, had difficulty breathing and a rash started rapidly appearing on his heavy body. His parents rushed to the Pasadena hospital where tests were taken that would ultimately confirm their baby was a victim of measles. Mobius was given a mask and started receiving treatment. His parents started panic.

CHRISTOPHER LOOP, FATHER OF MEASLES VICTIM: I was terrified. I kept thinking, you know, what's going to happen if I lose him and I just, I couldn't. I couldn't lose him. I would start thinking that and just had to stop myself.

TUCHMAN: What was the worst point for your son?

A. LOOP: The worst point was probably day two or three after the rash because his fever was still really high and he just looked horrible and he just kept rubbing his eyes and rubbing his eyes and he just had the hardest time sleeping.

TUCHMAN: While Ariel and Christopher were frightened how sick their son was getting, they had a parallel fear. A fear that they'd inadvertently put hundreds if not thousands other people at risk. That's because of the four days before they even knew Mobius was sick,

they had gone to this restaurant and this restaurant, this store and this store, and it's the four days before a rash appears and the four days after that infected people can spread measles.

A. LOOP: In a couple days, if the numbers start growing, it's just going to be, it's horrible. I just feel horrible and that was all I kept telling the health department that. I told the doctors that I was just like, we were out so much. We've been out to eat, you know, we were all over town.

TUCHMAN: How do you feel about it, Chris?

C. LOOP: It kills me. Like, I know how I felt going through this, and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

A. LOOP: Eyes still bothering him. And he just keep rubbing his face.

TUCHMAN: Mobius' mother is a registered nurse, a strong advocate of childhood vaccines. And it never know for sure exactly how their son contracted his measles. Understandably, are bitter about people who decide not to vaccinate their children.

C. LOOP: Their beliefs could have potentially cause lifelong issues for my son or kill them. And it's infuriating really when it comes down to it.

A. LOOP: He is everything. It's like, I made this. I made this, and, it, you know, it was just the idea of losing him was just, I don't. Yeah, it was really scary.

TUCHMAN: Gary Tuchman, CNN, Pasadena, California.


BERMAN: Mobius slept through that entire interview. So, what can you do to protect yourself or your children from measles? Joining me, CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

So Sanjay, what you saw in Gary's piece, that this couple's baby was just a few months old, too young to get the measles vaccination. So what do you do if you have a kid that's too young to get vaccinated?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that is why this principle of what is known as herd immunity matters so much. It means that when you're getting your child vaccinated, you're helping your child, preventing your child from getting infection, but also helping others as well. Think of it as the people who can't get vaccinated and besides, they are too young, there are other people as well that can't get vaccinated. People who may be - who have a certain, that cancer that may have a compromised immune system, women who are pregnant or may become pregnant. There are - it's a pretty big group when you started put it all together.

But if there are a lot of people vaccinated in the country, over 90 percent, you essentially think of those people as developing a sort of herd around people who can't get vaccinated, they offer protection, kind of preventing the measles virus from getting in to those vulnerable people.

BERMAN: What can places like Disneyland or the Bart System that had people with measles in and around them, is there a way to disinfect or they have to clean now in any kind of special way?

GUPTA: They do disinfect. They clean surfaces as much as you can. The difference with the measles virus and different than a lot of other viruses is when they say that it's contagious, part of the reason that it's contagious is that it can linger in the air. It can't linger in the air forever or, you know, in perpetuity, but it can linger in there for a while. So, in addition to cleaning those surfaces, they've got to give it a period of time where they've got to make sure the measles vaccine is not circulating through the air around there as well. My understanding is that's what Disney was sort of focused on after some of those first cases.

BERMAN: And if you are exposed to someone with measles or if you get on one of these subway cars where someone was, you know, had measles on it, what are your chances of catching it? If you're not vaccinated?

GUPTA: It's kind of amazing, John, because remember we talked a lot about Ebola and how that was actually quite difficult to catch. Consider these numbers. If you are not vaccinated, you come in contact with measles, you have about 90 percent chance of getting the infection. So, it is that contagious. It's quite remarkable. There aren't many things in nature that are as contagious as this virus. On the other hand, John, if you are vaccinated, it goes from about 90 percent to three percent chance of getting an infection. It's not a perfect vaccine, it's not going to 100 percent protect you, but it gives you a lot of protection.

BERMAN: So, where are we now in terms of where the measles have spread in the United States?

GUPTA: Well, we have more - we have some new numbers here. You know, when we are looking at them, we have 113 cases. That's up three from Wednesday. That was the last update. Now 18 states and D.C., most of them linked to Disneyland. So, you know, people are seeing what's going on. We are seeing a slight uptick in people wanting to get the vaccine. So the message does seem to be getting through to some extent, but, you know, it's remarkable, John. Just think about that. One case in Disneyland and that map that you just saw. That's how quickly something like this can spread. We live in a different world than we did 100 years ago and things move much more quickly. And I think it just makes the case for vaccines that much more stronger.

BERMAN: That was coast to coast. Literally.

GUPTA: Yeah.

BERMAN: Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Thanks so much.

GUPTA: Thanks, John. You got it.

BERMAN: Just ahead, Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg explains why she was asleep at the State of the Union and also talks about riding elephants with fellow Justice Scalia. And later, a medical emergency for a school bus driver after a scary trip for the students on board. How it all played out coming up.


BERMAN: So, if you watched this year's State of the Union address, you might have noticed that Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg was looking a bit, shall we say, disinterested at times. Now Justice Ginsburg has confirmed that she did indeed fall asleep and there was a perfectly reasonable explanation.


RUTH BADER GINSBURG, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: The audience for the most part is awake because they're bobbing up and down all the time.


GINSBURG: And we sit there, stone faced. Sober judges. But we're not, at least I wasn't, 100 percent sober because before we went to the State of the Union ...


GINSBURG: We had dinner together. This year, just sparkling water, stay away from the wine, but in the end. The dinner was so delicious, it needed wine to accompany it.



BERMAN: It needed the wine. That was an interview by NPR's Nina Totenburg with Ginsburg and Justice Antonin Scalia who are buddies in all kinds of adventures as it turns out, including vacations, in which they ride elephants together.

CNN senior legal analyst and preeminent Supreme Court writer Jeffrey Toobin joins me now with more. So Jeff, now we know why they have lifetime appointments, so they can go to the State of the Union hammered.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There's your answer. Berman, here's the thing you have to know. Ruth Ginsburg and Marty Ginsburg, her husband, were married for many years, and Marty was a very outgoing, funny, life of the party type person and Ruth was really very quiet. But Marty died in 2010. And over the last four plus years, Ruth has turned into a notorious RBG. I mean this is now the new Ruth Ginsburg. She's telling stories. She's getting hammered in public. I mean this is, it's quite a change.

BERMAN: Look. It's wonderful from the perspective of we don't get to see the Supreme Court justices unplugged. We don't get to see behind the robes, if you will, forgive me for that, but here you saw Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Antonin Scalia have this conversation out in the open and it was lovely.

TOOBIN: Well, and those two have been friends for pushing 30 or 40 years. They serve together on the D.C. circuit before either of them was appointed to the United States Supreme Court and both of them have been on the Supreme Court for more than 20 years. So you're talking about people who have been colleagues for a very long time, their friends were very close. In fact, the Ginsburgs and the Scalias historically have celebrated New Year's Eve together every year since they've been on the Supreme Court.

BERMAN: Along those lines, they've also taken vacations together. Let me show you a picture, this is a clip at least of them talking about riding an elephant in India.


ANTONIN SCALIA, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: Some of her feminist friends gave me a hard time or her a hard time because she rode behind me on the elephant.


SCALIA: Big deal.


SCALIA: I'm not kidding.

GINSBURG: It was, the driver explained it was a matter of distribution of weight.



BERMAN: It's like they have to take this show on the road here. They're great. Their timing is fantastic.

TOOBIN: And there's history there too, because Marty Ginsburg was a famous great chef. And Antonin Scalia is a famous great eater. So that's why they like to have dinner together so often because there was a real meeting between them as Justice Ginsburg pointed out.

BERMAN: Now, it's like they were riding an elephant in India is fantastic, but Jeffrey, there is something serious behind here. I think that is a lesson for all of us. I mean the Supreme Court, there is fierce, fierce partisanship and they really come from different sides of the aisle judicially speaking here. Yet they find a way to be friends personally. That's remarkable.

TOOBIN: And Washington really used to work that way. And there are various explanations for why it's much less true than it used to be in Congress, but it's the Supreme Court, they really do still make an effort to get along with each other, notwithstanding, their very, very serious disagreements.

BERMAN: Yeah, and you know the court as well as anybody or better than anybody, Jeff. Are there other friendships like this behind the scenes?

TOOBIN: Well, certainly, you have a friendship between Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Elena Kagan that is really, an almost mother-daughter situation. If you look at the two of them generationally, Elena Kagan is actually younger than Ruth Bader Ginsburg's actual daughter. So, it just gives you an idea of how different in age they are. There are other friendships. Justice Scalia is close to Justice Alito as well. They really are very, very careful to get along with each other on an interpersonal level because they're stuck with each other for decade after decade.

BERMAN: For decade after decade. Imagine that, you have to make the best. But they were doing more, though, Jeffrey, than making the best. As they were having a great time and enjoying each other.

TOOBIN: Absolutely.

BERMAN: Jeffrey Toobin, thanks so much.


BERMAN: Coming up, incredible video of a runaway school bus with 11 children on board. Details ahead and next, another stunning loss for journalism. Remembering "The New York Times David Carr."


BERMAN: One of the most enduring and distinctive voices in American journalism has fallen silent. "New York Times" media columnist David Carr collapsed in the newsroom last night and was pronounced dead in a New York hospital. He was just 58 years old. In his memoir, "The Night of the Gun" Carr describes as only he could his unlikely journey from crack addict in the '80s to the offices of "The Times," the newspaper he loved. The night before he died, Carr was on this program speaking with Anderson about Brian Williams.


DAVID CARR: The problem is, of course, is when you work in the studio, there's no one applauding, right? And then you get in these venues where people applaud or don't applaud and you want to make the room bounce, even as a print reporter, I get in certain public situations and I end up cracking lines because you want the room to bounce. You want the room to love you. It's only natural. We are all at bottom, entertainers. Nobody wants to be the boring guy sitting out there, and so you could see how that could get away from you. A little bit. Especially him, he's got very significant skills.


CARR: He's super funny.

COOPER: Yeah, yeah. Well, you're never the boring guy in the room and I appreciate you being on. Thank you.

CARR: Oh, thanks a million for having me, Anderson.


BERMAN: His death came during a week when the story tellers became the story over and over and over and over.


COOPER: Just a short time ago, we got word that veteran "CBS News" and "60 Minutes" correspondent Bob Simon has died.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More than any week we can remember in the history of this business, the news was the news.

DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: "New York Times" columnist David Carr has died at the age of 58.

BERMAN: And that news was bad, all of it. In just this one short week, the world of journalism became less smart, less brave, less wry, less credible.

JON STEWART: It is time for someone else to have that opportunity.

BERMAN: When the word came that Jon Stewart was leaving "The Daily Show" in a few months and Brian Williams was leaving the nightly news for at least a few months, you wanted to hear from David Carr.

CARR: There's never been a number one anchor that has tumbled all the way like this.

BERMAN: But when word came that the perpetual glimpse in his eye break the mold media reporter from "The New York Times", himself was gone forever. What you wanted, well, you just wanted to cry.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I don't know what we're going to do without him. He was the best and most important media reporter of our time.

BERMAN: For those who say this is a case of media self-absorption, no. It's a shock to the system, any system when you lose an idol, your critic, your scribe and your marrings (ph) all at once. You can't watch, you can't read, you can't trust the way you did just a few days ago.

BRIAN WILLIAMS: There were Katyusha rockets passing just underneath the helicopter I was riding in.

BERMAN: In the case of Brian Williams for those who say this is a feeding frenzy, a case of piling on. No, there is no delight, just dread. Too many people have worked too hard for too long reporting the facts and telling the stories. The real stories to engage in ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Israel's most advanced position. BERMAN: Bob Simon went everywhere. If there was war, he was there.

Suffering, he was there. Unanswered questions, he was there. He spent 40 days as a prisoner in Saddam Hussein's Iraq, and died in a car crash in Manhattan.

STEWART: Every aspect of your life.

BERMAN: And Jon Stewart? Well, David Carr wrote Mr. Stewart will leave his desk as arguably the most trusted man in news. Maybe. Stewart himself always says that what he did was fake news, even if these targets were real. But his presence at that desk will be missed.




BERMAN: He held up a mirror to our industry. And we need it. So, yeah, it's sad he is going, but when we look in that mirror now, there are too many faces missing. And that, that's tragic. What a week.


BERMAN: There is a lot more happening tonight.

Gary Tuchman is back with a "360" bulletin. Gary?