Return to Transcripts main page


Ferguson Judge Steps Down; OU Fraternity Shut Down; Unarmed Biracial 19-Year-Old Shot by Police; 18-Month-Old Baby Rescued from Freezing River; Interview with Garry Kasparov; Miles O'Brien Opens Up About Losing His Arm

Aired March 9, 2015 - 20:00   ET


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Thanks for joining us.

It's hard to imagine, truly sad to say, but this is the big story tonight. Fifty years after Selma and the voting rights act, a bus load of young white men singing about hanging young black men from trees. The incident and the uproar happening at one of the America's best-known universities and we'll talk about it tonight.

But first, quickly, some breaking news out of Ferguson, Missouri. Ronald Brockmeyer, the judge who imposed harsh fines on local citizens, mainly African-American citizens while getting his own tickets fixed, according to that skating Justice Department report he has now stepped down. He also you may recall owes $170,000 in back taxes. In a written statement, a lawyer in his firm said that the judge recognizes he has lost the public trust in the wake of the Department of Justice report.

Now to that video. And the outrage that extends far beyond the college campus and the fraternity house where it originated. A fraternity at the University of Oklahoma has been shut down after members were caught on video chanting racist slogans. Here's a look at the video that was posted online over the weekend showing members of the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity on a bus on their way to a party.


COOPER: Last night the Sigma Alpha Epsilon National Chapter suspended the University of Oklahoma members. And today the university's president had this to say.


DAVID L. BOREN, UNIVERSITY OF OKLAHOMA PRESIDENT: As far as I'm concerned, it won't be back. At least not while I'm president of the university.


BOREN: Tonight we send messages that are very strong and very clear.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: The video sparked protests on campus. Alina Machado has more.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There will never be a ----- S-A-E. You can never hang them from a tree, but they'll never sign with me. There will never be a -----

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The chant is so offensive, it's hard to listen to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There will never be a ----- S-A-E. You can never hang them from a tree, but they'll never sign with me. There will never be a -----

MACHADO: SAE, short for the fraternity Sigma Alpha Epsilon, this chapter at the University of Oklahoma, is on their way to a Saturday night party celebrating the fraternity's founding. The video was sent anonymously to a campus group called "unheard" that works to fight racism on campus. On Sunday, they posted it online. Unheard's co- founder spoke to CNN's Nick Valencia.

CHELSEA DAVIS, UNHEARD CO-DIRECTOR: This chant wasn't something we learned overnight. It was something that was well known, well versed that everybody on that bus felt privilege to say and can proudly clapped at.

MACHADO: The video exploded online. The outrage was universal. By Sunday night SAE national headquarters suspended its O.U. chapter.

BRANDON WEGHORST, SIGMA ALPHA EPSILON SPOKESMAN: It's absolutely appalling and disgusting. We are just as shocked and outraged as other people because that's not the type of behavior that SAE is about. That's not what our organization is about. And that is no way acceptable.

MACHADO: Today the university president announced all fraternity members were evicted from their house.

BOREN: As they packed their bags, I hope they think long and hard about what they've done. This is not who we are. And we won't tolerate it. Not for one minute from anybody. So those students will be out of that house by midnight tomorrow night. The house will be closed. And as far as I'm concerned, it won't be back.

MACHADO: Storm clouds were overhead as fraternity members loaded up U-Haul trucks outside the SAE house earlier today. Campus police stood guard. Some of the frat brothers reportedly had received death threats. And on one side of the house, someone had spray painted graffiti that appeared to read, tear it down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There will never be a ----- S-A-E. You can never hang them from a tree, but they'll never sign with me. There will never be a -----

MACHADO: The university continues to investigate. Saying expulsion is one option on the table for anyone chanting such hateful words.


COOPER: Alina Machado joins me now from Oklahoma. So what's the status of fraternity members at this point?

MACHADO: Anderson, right now, the university is still working to identify the students who were seen on that video and any student who may have been participating in the chanting. At this point the university is still not sure what kind of punishment these students will be facing. But the university president has made it very clear that they will be exploring all of their options, Anderson.

COOPER: And reaction on campus, I mean, what's the mood? I know there have been protests.

MACHADO: There have been protests as you mentioned. And the thing is, as you would expect, there's going to be disgust. There's going to be a lot of outrage on campus among students. But what we found interesting is that among some African-American students, they're not necessarily surprised by what they saw on the video. What they find surprising is that this fraternity was actually caught in the act. That it was caught on videotape. That's why some students here are saying that now they should really take a closer look at the entire Greek system, because they believe that this happens more often than we know. Anderson.

COOPER: All right. Alina, I appreciate the update.

Joining me now is Chelsea Davis, who we just saw in Alina's report. She's co-director of the campus group that brought the video to light. Also with us ,CNN legal analyst and former legal prosecutor Sunny Hostin and CNN political commentator Charles Blow.

Chelsea, I guess when you first saw this video, I mean, what went through your mind? Because you point out, it seems like this is a chant that they have said before, they clearly seem to know what to say.

DAVIS: Well, most definitely this chant was not something that was brand-new. This was something that was learned and rehearsed. When I first initially saw the video, I was hurt. I was disgusted. It really was disappointing to see other O.U. students referring to black students with such derogatory terms. I'm at a loss of words for what happened at this university this past weekend.

COOPER: Were you completely surprised, though? I mean, I understand until yesterday there was a confederate flag hanging inside the fraternity, is visible from the street. Do you think this is localized to this fraternity or fraternities there in general?

DAVIS: I think this is an overall -- in overall thing within the Greek council here in the University of Oklahoma. I think it's a culture thing that people just think that saying such derogatory terms are OK. Chanting these things are OK, and that they're just going to get away with it. And unfortunately it took them getting caught on video camera for this to happen. But this is definitely not something that is brand-new. It's not something that's only seen within this one organization.

COOPER: And Sunny, I mean, a young man leading this chant, seems to have no problem being videotaped.

SUNNY HOSTIN, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Yes. And I think that's what was surprising to me. I mean, we know we're not living in a post-racial world, post-racial society. We've seen the Ferguson report. But we've been talking about racism and racial bias more in the context of police departments, and quite frankly, more in the context of people over 40. So what was surprising to me was the notion that you have millennial who, you know, should -- I don't know, should be educated millennial, should be more enlightened. I'm just very surprised that we still don't do better, even though we know better, even though they're so young.

COOPER: Charles, you're shaking your head that the idea that millennial should (INAUDIBLE)

CHARLES BLOW, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, right. Because that's not strangely enough, that's not what the data show. When you look at the data from the racial implicit bias test, the group with the highest levels of bias are those who older. We expect that.

HOSTIN: Right.

BLOW: The second highest group is young people, young adults, those including college age students. And what we have to recognize as a society is that we are raising a group of people who are a part of the most diverse generation ever in this country, but also, a part of an increasingly segregated generation, because we are segregating ourselves.

This is not state mandated. We are doing it ourselves. We are self- sorting. Some people are choosing self-sorting and moving it to kind of homogenous enclave, at a by income or race, and other people are stuck, because of inequality and inability to move out of enclaves. And so we see an educational system that is increasingly segregated. And by some measures more segregated than before brown versus board of education.

COOPER: Chelsea, on campus, do you get that sense of segregation? And if so, what's the solution to that?

DAVIS: Most definitely. It's one thing that O.U. Unheard it's been fighting for on this campus is diversity and inclusion of all minority groups. We as black people do feel separated from the majority simply because, one, we are low in numbers, and two, the atmosphere is just not appealing, it's not cutlery appealing to us as black students.

So I think it is, it's a social issue that needs to change, not just at O.U., but within our nation. This is a cultural issue that needs to be addressed. And people need to understand that although my skin tone is different than you, that doesn't make me lesser or less educated or less than a human being than you. COOPER: And I think we got a picture of the confederate flag that up

until, I guess now, was has been hanging inside visible from out of the street.

Sunny, what do you think should happen to the students? The university says that they're still looking into whether the students violated title six, in Civil Rights act which prohibits racial discrimination.

HOSTIN: Well, I would assume that there's also a school policy, a conduct, right, a code of conduct. Then I would assume that they have violated that conduct. So going to this university is a privilege. It's not a right. And so I would suspect that the appropriate thing to do after an investigation, is to dismiss these students and expel these students from the school. And I do not think that is too harsh. Because I think at this point, now that we know this is an issue and you have these students that are suffering, I mean, you see how she is suffering from this, I think you have to send that message at this point that this will not be tolerated.

COOPER: Charles, the other thing that's disturbing about this, I mean, some people might look at this and say, look, it's a bunch of college kids saying stupid things. These are young people who -- I don't know if they're seniors or not, they're soon to be going out into jobs, into jobs making decision that may impact other people. Maybe some are going to work in a bank and decides who gets a loan or not. And hopefully they will evolve in their understanding and their empathy and stuff. But if you're starting out with the base of this kind of a platform, that's a worrying thing.

BLOW: It is a worrying thing on a lot of levels. It is worrying thing on what can happen in kind of crowd behavior, in pack mentalities. There are probably people on that bus who kind a feel uncomfortable with and still going along because everybody else was doing it. And all of that can happen behind closed doors or on the bus when nobody thinks or anybody else is looking and nobody thinks that has anybody is recording. And then those people step off of that bus and you don't even know that they hold those feelings or they were OK with going along with it. They weren't going to say anything about it, or were leading the chant.

All of that is disturbing. But if -- but it is not necessarily surprising, we have to remember that this is how this sort of behavior operates in a society. That people are -- people can be hateful, people can be followers, people can be indoctrinated into that sort of thing. And this has to ritualize kind of behavior. Because as you mentioned before, and as the young lady mentioned, everybody knows the song, right?

HOSTIN: Yes. It didn't seem like they were just learning or anything.


BLOW: You're saying something. They're saying something back. This is not your first time at that rodeo. COOPER: Well it looks be interesting to see, you know, its one thing

if, you know, you're a young person and you do something you regret. It will be interesting to see if they come forward at all and express regret, express apologies. It will be interesting, you know, to see if we know what steps they actually begin to take.

Chelsea Davis, it's great to have you on the program. Sunny Hostin, Charles Blow as well.

A programming note, stay tuned after 360 tonight for the CNN Special Report witness, the assassination of Malcolm x. It's a fascinating documentary, examining the life, the controversy surrounding him and his death 50 years after he was killed.

Just ahead, public outcry tonight over the killing of a young an unarmed biracial man by a police officer. That and the very public efforts to make everything possible about this latest killing, nothing like what happened in Ferguson.

Also ahead, an incredible rescue, you've got to see the story. A baby girl found alive after being trapped for 14 hours in a car that flipped into a cold, cold river in Utah. Rescuers say they heard calls from for help from inside the car. But they still don't know whose calls they heard. I'll talk to those rescuers ahead tonight.


COOPER: Protesters today occupy the Wisconsin State Capital Building, about 1,500 university of Wisconsin and local high school students marching inside chanting "I am Tony Robinson." It's the name of a local 19-year-old biracial man who was shot dead by police on Friday. Today, his uncle spoke out.


TURIN CARTER, VICTIM'S UNCLE: And let's be very clear, very, very clear. It takes one bullet from trained -- from a trained gunman to end a life. It takes one bullet. And we know how many were fired.


COOPER: In fact, we do not know precisely, precisely, what happened. We do know that for the protesters, their echoes of Ferguson here for the protestors. We also know that efforts are being made do apply some of the hard lessons of Ferguson and do things differently this time. Madison's mayor joins us shortly.

But first, Gary Tuchman with the facts that we know.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We would not accept Madison Police Department shooting one of our children.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The basic fact is not being disputed. A 19-year-old biracial man was shot and killed by a white Madison, Wisconsin, police officer named Matt Kenny, inside this home.

But there are so many questions about why it happened.

This past Friday night, a call came in here to Madison Police Headquarters that a disturbance was taking place on the street. As officers raced to the scene, they were told additional calls were coming in about the disturbance. And one particular name was being mentioned.

UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: Look for a male black, white-skinned, tan jacket, jeans, outside yelling and jumping in between cars. Nineteen is of age, named is Tony Robinson.

TUCHMAN: The calls about Tony Robinson continued to come in to police.

UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: Apparently Tony hit one of his friends. No weapon seen.

TUCHMAN: And then a man called saying he had been assaulted by Robinson.

UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: Apparently, the victim will be waiting at the restaurant at 1146 Willy Street. Suspect could be at the gas station at the area. No shirt on right now.

TUCHMAN: And about 30 seconds later --

UNIDENTIFIED DISPATCHER: Got another call for the same suspect. When inside 1125 Williamson Street and tried to strangle another patron.

TUCHMAN: Let's give you a lay of the land regarding the recordings you just heard. That building with the red owning is the restaurant where the man who said he was victimized was waiting for police. Right down the street at the gas station, where Robinson was seen without his shirt, and then across the street from the gas station you can see the police cars here. This is the house where it happened. Officer Kenny went up to the door where the tarp is, and that's where he fired the shots.

A neighbor in the duplex says she heard it all happen. She says two brothers shared the other unit in the duplex. And Tony Robinson was their friend.

KATHY BULTON, LIVES IN DUPLEX WHERE SHOOTING OCCURRED: I heard this -- wrestling, and things being knocked over, and my kitchen actually wall -- are ceiling kind of shook, and the light. I figured, you know, somebody -- something was going on. I heard more -- somebody go down the stairs. Then I heard the shots.

TUCHMAN: You heard the gunshots.


TUCHMAN: And how many did you hear?

BULTON: Four to six.

TUCHMAN: Robinson was pronounced dead at the hospital. The police chief said Robinson struck his officer in the head when he went into the house. Robinson as promised as the law, he pleaded guilty to participating in an armed robbery in Madison last year. And was serving probation as a result. The man who shot him, Officer Kenny, has been placed unpaid administrative leave. Jim Palmer the Police Union Executive Director and represents the officer.

Did he have a teaser with him and why didn't he use the teaser first?

JIM PALMER, EXECUTIVE DIR. WISCONSIN PROFESSIONAL POLICE ASSOCIATION: I believe that's something we probably won't comment on, whether or not he had a teaser. Typically, I will tell you that an officer won't use a teaser unless they have lethal backup.

TUCHMAN: So if he doesn't have someone else with a gun, you're not supposed to use your teaser here in Wisconsin?

PALMER: That's generally the policy, correct.

TUCHMAN: An investigation is now under way in to the shooting death of Tony Robinson. The Union Chief saying, it will take a minimum of four to six months to complete.


COOPER: And Gary Tuchman joins us from Madison. It seems like police in Madison have been handling the situation surely much differently than police in Ferguson.

TUCHMAN: Yes. Anderson. It's pretty easy to learn from what happened in Ferguson. Situation here, the atmosphere is here much different. For example, the name of this officer was released almost immediately, much different than Ferguson. And also, the police chief has been very open. He said this weekend that it's clear that Mr. Robinson was unarmed. And that's a controversial fact that will make this all much more difficult to unravel, but he said it right away, he wasn't obligated to say that fact right away.

And another big difference, you've had large protests and demonstrations here, but they have remained peaceful. Right now, some of the demonstrators lighting candles in front of the house.

COOPER: Gary, thanks very much. Joining us from Madison is the Mayor Paul Soglin. Mr. Mayor, appreciate you being with us. I'm sorry it's under these circumstances. At this point, do you have any more clarity about what transpired inside that house between the officer and this young man that actually led to the shooting?

MAYOR PAUL SOGLIN, MADISON, WISCONSIN: Unfortunately, I don't, Mr. Cooper. The investigation is being conducted by the state. We have a new law here in Wisconsin where departments are no longer conducting their own internal investigations for officer involved shootings.

COOPER: Tony Robinson's uncle said today that he believes this is an example of what he called systematic targeting of young black males. Those who support the police action said as tragic as this was, given this man's history, given alleged assaults he had committed that night, and what may have -- whatever transpired in that house, they believe the shooting was justified. What do you say to the family?

SOGLIN: Well, I met with the family the night of the shooting, and there are several things in our conversation that I think are important. But first, is that we are not going to put Tony on trial. That's not what this is about. What this is about is finding out exactly what happened that night and to determine then responsibility. We know that he was not armed. And as far as the police chief, Chief Koval and I are concerned, the fact that Tony was involved in any kind of transgression in the past has nothing to do with this present tragedy.

COOPER: What's your message out to the people protesting tonight? Should they have confidence in the investigation that's under way? Do you have confidence in it?

SOGLIN: I have confidence in it to the degree that I believe that the justice department is going to do a fair job. I do have some concerns because no one in the state has gone through this before. So that is one reservation that I have. But in terms of the students and the young people who are really feeling the tragedy, and for most of our high school students, young college students under the age of 20, 22, other than a family loss, this may well be the greatest tragedy that they've experienced.

And to date, they've expressed frustration. They've expressed anger. And outrage about what's happening. That is their prerogative, that is their right. And it's been done in a very appropriate manner up until now. Some of the personal attacks on police officers, I have reservations about. But by and large, things have gone well.

COOPER: Well, Mr. Mayor, again, I'm sorry it's under these circumstances we're talking. I appreciate you coming on tonight. Thank you very much.

Up next, an amazing story. How a little girl survived 14 hours in a river so cold, her rescuers got hypothermia. We'll talk to them about the rescue. And the mysterious voice that say guided them to the vehicle, with no one else alive in the car, who was actually calling out to help, who was saying help me, help me. I'll talk to four of the rescuers tonight.


COOPER: A little girl opened her eyes today. She opened her eyes in a Utah hospital to caring professionals, a loving family and a world to conquer. Lily Groesbeck, just 18 months old had that chance tonight. Thanks to the first responder you are about to meet. They say a voice guided them to her trapped in the wreckage of her mom's car upside down after 14 hours in a freezing river. Where that voice came from, remains a mystery. Here in my conversation with those first responders. First, though, Lily and her incredible story from our Elizabeth Cohen. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Late Friday night a man living in this neighborhood outside of Salt Lake City hears a crash. He looks outside his door and sees nothing. What he doesn't know, a car has skidded off the road and is now partially submerged in the Spanish Fork River. It takes until noontime Saturday for the car to be spotted. A local fisherman sees the overturned vehicle in the water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A witness said there was an arm that he could see inside the vehicle.

COHEN: The fisherman calls the 911. Spanish Fork police officers respond and wait out to the car.

TYLER BEDDOES, SPANISH FORK POLICE OFFICER: It felt like I could hear somebody telling me they needed help. It was -- I mean, It's very surreal. Something that I felt like I could hear.

COHEN: They're not sure where the voice came from. When they get to the car, the scene is grim. 25-year-old Lynn Jennifer Groesbeck is dead in the driver's seated. But in the back seat, rescuers find her daughter Lily, just 18 months old. Lily is in her car seat hanging upside down in a part of the car not submerged in the water. The toddler is unconscious and unresponsive, but alive. The officers flip the car over.

PAUL TOMADAKIS, SOUTH FORK FIRE DEPARTMENT: Got the baby in my arm, raised it up, raised it's head up out of the water. As I tried to release the seat belt.

JARED WARNER, SOUTH FORK POLICE OFFICER: The child was passed to me. And I just ran up and climbed in the ambulance with the child.

COHEN: For about 14 hours, Lily had survived hanging upside down in freezing temperatures in the upper 20s, with no food or water.

DR. BARBARA WALSH, UMASS MEDICAL SCHOOL: It's amazing. Children are very resilient. And I think sometimes we don't realize how much they actually can withstand.

COHEN: As for the temperature, being cold might actually have helped Lily.

WALSH: When you become hypothermic, it slows the body down. Metabolism drops. Your oxygen consumption drops, your glucose metabolism drops. It actually ends up being neuro protective.

COHEN: In the end, the main reason Lily survived this awful crash is that her mother buckled her up in a car seat so she didn't go through a window or drown. Something that isn't surprising to Jennifer's sister.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She loves Lily with all her heart. COHEN: Primary Children's Medical Center said the toddler is in

stable condition and improving. The family shared this about her today. Her improvement is astounding. Right now she's watching Dora and singing "Wheels on the Bus" with grampa. She's smiling and laughing for family members. We're blown away by Lily's progress and so grateful to her rescuers.

Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, reporting.


COOPER: We were blown away by her rescuers who made that joy possible. Paul Tomadakis, who pulled Lily from the water. Lee Mitchum (ph), both members of the Spanish Fork fire department, and Officers Jared Warner and Tyler Beddoes of the Spanish Fork police. I spoke to them a short time ago.


COOPER: Tyler, take us back to the moment you first arrived at the vehicle. Did you guys think there was any possibility that someone could still be alive in there?

TYLER BEDDOES, SPANISH FORK POLICE: When we first got the report there was a vehicle upside down in the river, a fisherman had walked by the vehicle, we didn't know if the vehicle was abandoned or anyone was inside the vehicle. It wasn't until we were about there that we got a report saying that they could see an arm protruding from the vehicle.

COOPER: So how much of the vehicle was submerged at that point, Jared?

JARED WARNER, SPANISH FORK POLICE: The roof, it was upside down in the river. Water was probably eight inches from the top of the door frame where the window meets. So definitely the roof section was submerged.

COOPER: And was Lily in the water itself?

WARNER: Not at that moment. She was fortunately placed at the rear of the vehicle, in the back seat. When it was upside down, that suspended her to where she was out of the water at that time.

COOPER: Tyler, when you arrived on scene, what did you do?

BEDDOES: We heard something saying help us, help us inside. So it was at that point that we said we have to get into that car now. And we all -- the four of us were able to push the car on its side. That's when I looked inside and was able to see the child infant strapped in the back seat.

COOPER: So you actually heard a voice calling out help me? Do you know who that was?

BEDDOES: You know, at first we didn't know if it was someone inside the car, if it was -- what that voice was. We assumed, or I assumed it was someone in the car saying help me. That's why we responded saying, we're trying, we're going to get inside and help you. We're doing the best we can. That was just extra motivation. To get inside the car and figure out who was in there. It wasn't until after we flipped it that we saw the mother, who we know now was deceased at the time and the child was in the back seat. So it wasn't until after that you really process and we got together and we all heard the same, you know, voice.

COOPER: Jared, you heard that voice as well?

WARNER: Yes, I did. Like Officer Beddoes said, more than one of us, of the four officers that were there, responded back saying, we're here to help.

COOPER: When Lily was finally freed from the wreck, what condition was she in?

PAUL TOMADAKIS, SPANISH FORK FIRE DEPARTMENT: I could tell she had some life in her. I could see her eyes moving. She wasn't breathing at that time. Things went so quickly, that I just handed her up out of the car as fast as I could to get her out, and get her into the proper hands.

COOPER: So she wasn't conscious, was not crying or anything like that?


COOPER: I'm really intrigued by this voice you heard. I guess it's something of a mystery to you at this point. Do you think it's possible it came -- is it possible the mother was still alive when you guys came on scene? What do you make of it?

BEDDOES: For two nights I've laid awake trying to figure out exactly what it could be. And so many things go through your mind. All I know is that it was there. And we all heard it. And that just helped us to push us harder, like I say. And do what we could to rescue anyone inside the car.

COOPER: Tyler, I understand you've got some information today about Lily's condition. How is she doing?

BEDDOES: I was told today that her eyes were open today. And that she was actually laughing, and interacting with family members. And it's just incredible to hear. And our heart goes out to the family.

COOPER: The job all of you do is difficult on any day. But to have an outcome like this, where you were able to save a little girl's life is just extraordinary. I just want to thank you very much for taking the time to talk to us.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Anderson. Appreciate it.


COOPER: Amazing rescuers, and want to make sure to give credit to the other rescuers who were there as well. I want to give one quick note on the Oklahoma University story. During our conversation at the top of the broadcast, we shared what we believed to be a photo of the confederate flag hanging from the SAE frat house window at OU. We have since learned just moments ago it's actually from the SAE house at OSU, Oklahoma State University. We very much regret the error.

Just ahead tonight, good policing, or was it a cover-up. That's the question following an arrest in the murder of a leading critic of Vladimir Putin. I'll speak with another critic, Garry Kasparov, next.


COOPER: Five people have now been arrested in connection with the killing of Russian opposition leader Boris Nemtsov. According to state-run television, a sixth man killed himself. Nemtsov, as you know, was shot and killed as he was walking near the Kremlin, one of the most highly policed, heavily watched places on earth. Video cameras pretty much everywhere. But mysteriously there's only this one piece of video that's been released. At the time skeptics predicted that authorities would either fail to investigate or would round up some fall guys, namely ethnic Chechens. We're joined by one of those skeptics, pro-democracy activist and former world chess champion, Garry Kasparov. What do you make now of the arrests that have been made and the statements made about the people arrested?

GARRY KASPAROV, CHAIRMAN, HUMAN RIGHTS FOUNDATION: Actually, we don't have too much to learn from the official statements. Because it's very brief. They are arrested, they are suspects. But, again, we are hearing stories from unnamed sources, pointing out that one of these guys, you know, saying that he confessed. It's not confirmed by official sources. All we heard from this man in the courtroom, I love Prophet Muhammad. I don't think it proves anything.

COOPER: One of the motives that's been put forward --

KASPAROV: Officially.

COOPER: -- officially, was that Nemtsov had supported members of Charlie Hebdo, and that this was in response to Charlie Hebdo.

KASPAROV: Boris Nemtsov was not a frequent guest on Russian official television, and these guys, they did not seem to me as those who were reading Boris Nemtsov's Facebook or listening to the liberal radio station. So I don't know how on earth they could find out who is Boris Nemtsov. Who is by the way quite tacit in his comments about Paris. You know, said about these attacks on Charlie Hebdo, in Paris.

Also, from the very beginning, we can hear time and again this unnamed source throwing this false information. In one hour, we heard about Boris Nemtsov being shot from a white car. From a white car. Again, proved to be bogus. And then many times you know, we have unnamed sources, you know, instead of an official investigative committee, provided us with information that proved to be wrong. COOPER: What is the chance that anything will ever actually be known?

KASPAROV: Probably, again, there's a chance these guys or one of them killed Boris Nemtsov, someone did. But I think who pulled the trigger is less relevant than who pulled the strings. I wouldn't be surprised if we're facing now a battle between different groups surrounding Putin. Without any doubt, no doubt at all that this murder couldn't take place without the full cooperation of security officers. Because they control the bridge (ph) completely.

COOPER: The leader in Chechnya entered the fray, tweeted out comments about --

KASPAROV: Yes, because (inaudible), again, today, Putin awarded him. And I won't say it was Lugovoy who has been the main suspect of killing of Litvinenko in London in 2006, again, very strange coincidence.

COOPER: Vladimir Putin on this day awarded --

KASPAROV: Awarded. (inaudible). I think this might be, you know, a plan of some people surrounding Putin who hated Kadyrov, because there is a big always a fight between Russian security officials, and the Chechen strongman, who is a big Putin supporter. So I would not be surprised if we actually learn much more. Also, the video you showed, it's the only one that's available. And it came from the Moscow TV channel. Which is not controlled by Kremlin, but by the Moscow mayor. While we know there are other cameras from other TV programs have been working, and they are showing it from a different angle. So too many questions remain unanswered. Hopefully we'll have a chance to learn more. But definitely the Kremlin's policy will be now just to be --

COOPER: Tamp it down.

KASPAROV: Absolutely.

COOPER: Garry Kasparov, good to have you on, as always.

Up next, he thought it was just a bruise until he had his arm amputated. We're talking about our Miles O'Brien. He says he's proof your life can change in an instant in ways you can never predict. The question is how do you deal with that change.


O'BRIEN: This is a nightmare. This has got to be a nightmare. This can't be real.


COOPER: Tomorrow night, on CNN, aviation analyst Miles O'Brien shares his incredible emotional journey after he lost one of his arms in a freak accident. A year ago, a camera box fell on Miles' forearm when he was working in the Philippines. He thought nothing of it at first. He thought it was just a bruise. 48 hours later, he was fighting for his life, and ended up losing his left arm. He agreed to tell the story to our Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Here's a preview of Miles O'Brien, a life lost and found.


O'BRIEN: I could barely believe what I saw. I mean, you know, it's amazing that I could -- you know, it felt like it was there. It really did. But it wasn't.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA: Miles was alive. But he was in deep denial over what had just happened to him.

O'BRIEN: I don't think we're very good, human beings in general, are good at perceiving what our real risks are, right? You tell people you're going to Fukushima, they go, you're crazy. You tell people, I'm stacking up some pelican cases, they say, so what. Our perception of risk does not match the reality. And I have learned that in a very painful way.

GUPTA: The denial was so strong, Miles left the hospital two days after his operation and checked into a hotel. He didn't tell anyone that his arm was gone. Not his family, not his friends, not his co- workers. No one knew.


COOPER: Those first days, weeks and months were certainly tough. Now, Miles says his life is better. Better for going through all of this. I spoke with Miles and Sanjay earlier.


COOPER: Why did you not want to tell anybody? You stayed in that hotel room for nine days.

O'BRIEN: You know, it was a combination of a little bit of denial, a little bit of fear, and being a dad, wanting to protect my kids. You know, you're in a mode all your life where you don't want to upset them. You want to make them -- you want to be the super dad, right?

COOPER: What were those -- I mean, if you told them on the phone, what was that conversation like? How do you go about telling somebody that?

O'BRIEN: It's hard to believe, Anderson. But what I did was, my son was in China, and my daughter was at college in North Carolina. And I wanted them to be the first to know. And I wanted them to know at the same time. So I actually arranged a Skype call with them. And I got them both on the Skype. And I explained what happened. And it was really hard for me as a dad to, you know, how do I tell this to them. They're adults. They can handle it. I wasn't giving them much credit, frankly. And without even hesitation, they said, dad, you know, there were expressions of shock, but the next thing out of their mouth was, dad, we love you. And we're here to support you. And that was the best call I ever had in my life. And it made me realize how stupid I was to think I had to hold back from them.

COOPER: It's been a year since the accident. It's a dumb question, but what has this year been like?

O'BRIEN: It's been a tough year in many respects. I've had to relearn very simple things, you know. How to butter the bagel, or whatever the case may be. Tie my tie. All those little things. And all that stuff that it took a lot of my time this year just to kind of reinvent how to get through the day. And that was at times -- it made me very frustrated, made me angry. I wasn't a happy guy a lot of the time. It wasn't like there was one particular thing. I could basically figure everything out, but I felt like it was taking up a lot of my time just figuring out very basic things.

But when I look back on this year, you know, it's very hard for me to watch the film, frankly. It's very difficult. Because it's like so many things in life, it's almost kind of easier to live through them than to reflect back on them and think about them. Especially when it's told in the way Sanjay told it. It's really a very powerful film. It will be a powerful film for me to watch if I wasn't in it. It's very difficult, probably a little bit of PTSD for me to see that and have that story told that way.

But what I've learned this year is that, No. 1, we all have a reservoir of resilience if we're willing to draw from it.

COOPER: But there were moments where you thought about ending your life.

O'BRIEN: Yes. Well, I thought my life was over.

COOPER: It really felt like your life was over?

O'BRIEN: I didn't know -- I didn't have a template for a one-armed television journalist. So I didn't know what I could do anymore. And that's part of what I -- you know, I literally thought what is the first thing I can do to prove that I'm still at it, as it were. That's when I started typing, working on my scripts. And that was like the first in a series of tiny little battles that got me through this year. Kind of one challenge to conquer at a time.

COOPER: Were you nervous about doing this? To interview somebody who is a friend, who you know, it's a whole different thing.

GUPTA: Yes. I was nervous. I think it sort of morphed into what it was as well. I remember originally when Miles and I were talking, I was so interested, you know, in the science, the things that we always had in common, the prosthetics and how that was all going to work for him. I remember when I was talking to him in the first interview, and I was learning things that, you know, in medicine we like things in these nice, neat, tidy packages. We like to assign labels. You're now in denial phase, you're now in bargaining phase, now acceptance, all these things. And, you know, during that interview and then certainly in the months that followed, I realized that things are messy. They're sticky. They don't follow rules. You can go to acceptance and go right back to denial. You can be in bargaining phase for a long time. You can get angry.

COOPER: I want to show another piece from the documentary. It gives the viewers a sense of some of the struggle that you went through.

GUPTA: Reading the e-mails that poured in kept Miles going in the early days after his accident.

You got a ton of e-mails. I know I sent you e-mails.

Let's go find yours.

O'BRIEN: That would be right around the time, right? Let's see. Yes. Let's see. Okay. So this is right around -- yes, there we go. Dear Miles, Sanjay here. I think about you nonstop. Even with one arm, you (inaudible). So sorry for your ordeal. We're all thinking about you and wish you the very best. Many Miles stories were shared today.

COOPER: Is it hard looking back? Thinking back to those times?

O'BRIEN: Yes, it's very hard. It is. Yes, it's -- you know, it's bad enough to live it. To see it just brings up a lot of stuff that ultimately I need to work through. But it's brought forward in a very focused and -- it's just difficult. It's difficult. Those moments when you think about what it was like to receive those e-mails, not his, and hundreds of others, showing expressions of love and support that I didn't fully appreciate, frankly.


COOPER: Such an incredible journey. I urge you to watch it. Miles O'Brien: A life lost and found, it airs tomorrow night at 9:00 Eastern. You can set the DVR for it right now. The 360 team produced the hour. We're all really proud of it. Incredibly proud of Miles and Sanjay. We hope you watch.

Up next, Surveillance video. Suge Knight fatal hit and run. Also, canine murder mystery. This dog was poisoned. The question is, did it happen at a prominent dog show, and if so, who did it?


COOPER: Amara Walker has the 360 news and bulletin.

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson, TMZ obtained surveillance video showing Suge Knight's deadly hit and run. We blurred the video, but we want to warn you, it still may be tough to watch. Suge Knight is in the red truck. He is confronted by one of the man who attacked Knight. The rap mogul then backed up his truck, clipping him. Moments later he hits the gas and plows into both of them, killing one of them. Knight has pleaded not guilty to the charges against him. According to his attorney, he was trying to escape because he feared he would be killed.

Near Rocky Mount, North Carolina, 40 passengers were injured when an Amtrak train slammed into a truck carrying a mobile home. The train derailed. Debris was scattered all over the tracks. According to reports, the truck driver was not hurt. And a dog died of poisoning just hours after competing in a

prestigious dog show in Birmingham, England, according to the owner of the Irish setter. The dog's owner says a vet told her there was enough poison to kill a horse. Anderson?

COOPER: That is unbelievable. So sad. Amara, thank you very much. That does it for us. We'll see you again 11:00 p.m. Eastern, another edition of "360."

CNN special report, "WITNESSED: THE ASSASSINATION OF MALCOLM X," starts now.