Return to Transcripts main page
ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Manhunt Underway for 3 Suspects Believed to Still Be on the Loose After a Terror Attack in Tunisia; Shooting Rampage Paralyzes Mesa, Arizona; Caroline Kennedy Was the Subject of Death Threats; FBI Asking Local Police to Look Into Cold Cases to Check for Ties to Robert Durst; Prince Charles, Duchess of Cornwall Visit United States. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired March 18, 2015 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:00] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Thank you for joining us. Two big stories tonight. A possible hate crime angle in mesa Arizona. Skinhead is what the tattoos over his eyebrows read and the 88 which stands for HH, Hail Hitler.
There is that and a manhunt underway as we speak where three suspects believed to be still on the loose after a terror attack in Tunisia's capital. It happened in a popular spot for western visitors. The western death toll is heavy but even though no group has yet claimed responsibility. Suspicion has gravitated towards is or ISIS sympathizers.
More on that shortly. But first, how this latest tragedy unfolded.
COOPER (voice-over): Around 1:00 p.m. local time, the first reports emerge of a deadly siege under way. At least two gunmen have stormed the Bardo national Museum, Tunisia's capital. It's one of the city's most iconic and heavily visited attractions.
Today, that included groups from two different international cruise ships. Inside, the gunmen are opening fire.
Suddenly, we hear loud noises, this French tourist says. We realized it was gunfire. She goes on to say, we didn't know what to do. We hid.
Outside, anti-tourism units create a perimeter and prepare to enter, only heightening the danger, the museum is connected to Tunisia's parliamentary building full of lawmakers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard a fire fight just next to the building. It was very strong and the administration came to tell us to lay down.
COOPER: At the museum, according to one witness, tourists are the target.
One guy was hunting the tourist with machine guns, he says, it sounded like. Security forces eventually entered the building and engaged the gunmen killing two of them. One witness in the museum's second floor said within an hour, securing the first shots, she's freed by authorities. At that point, they say you must run. You must run, she said. Get out of here, fast.
As the building is evacuated, people run for their lives while security personnel give them cover with their rifles. Somehow, three other gunmen are thought to have escaped and are still at large. But they leave carnage behind. At least 19 are dead including 17 tourists. Among them, French, Spanish, Italian, German, and polish nationals. The Tunisian security officer also killed. And at least another 22 were injured in the attack, including this man who is being visit in the hospital visited by Tunisia's president.
Hours after it all begun, the situation has declared over. Tunisian security forces are treated like liberators at the museum's gate. And then a show of unity and defiance, Tunisians sing their national anthem. But authorities continue to search for three at large as a manhunt is under way.
COOPER: And more now from someone who lived through this. You just heard from her moments ago. Sabrine Goubatini is her name. She is a member of the Tunisian parliament. I spoke to her earlier.
COOPER: I understand you were in parliament having a meeting when you were told there was an attack. Can you walk us through what happened?
SABRINE GOUBATINI, MEMBER OF THE TUNISIAN PARLIAMENT (via phone): So this morning, we were in the assembly working in different (INAUDIBLE). We have been told by the administration so we observed fire. And then we have been told after some several seconds that we -- the parliament has been attacked by terrorists that were fire fighting in front of the main entrance of the parliament.
Just after this, the building has been evacuated and we learned that the terrorists move to the museum. And I have to notice here that the main entrance of the parliament is just next to the museum. So what we heard is that the fire fight was first in front of the main entrance of the parliament. So the entrance of the chairman of the parliament and the ministers and the terrorists went back to the museum to shoot the buses of tourists and then to enter to the museum to take the tourists in hostage.
COOPER: Now, at this point, no group has claimed responsibility for the attack. The interior ministry spokesman earlier today called the attackers Islamists, but didn't specify exactly where they came from. Do you have any idea of who might be behind this based on what's occurred before?
GOUBATINI: Yes, we have an idea. Well, the exact group has not been identified but it's not the first time that Tunisia has been attacked by Islamist terrorists. And many activists on twitter and facebook have noted that very special hashtag used by tourist Islamists and jihadists on twitter and facebook. And that many pictures of hostages have been taken by those terrorists inside the museum during liberation. And also, many pages, facebook pages and with twitter accounts have talked about this and those accounts belong to terrorists and jihadists.
It's the clear message from those people especially that during the last two weeks when the government stopped working, we had discovered many places hiding terrorists and with them, bombs on many other items that have been hide besides terrorists in different parties of the country. So I think this is an answer from those people to the government and to the - and these are working actually on below (ph) about to try against terrorism.
[20:05:53] COOPER: Sabrine Goubatini, I appreciate your time. Thank you.
GOUBATINI: Thank you.
COOPER: Well, whether it is the result of the killings or simply in the wake of them, security went up and knocked several facilities around the region. The American embassy in Djibouti for one, it will be closed tomorrow until Sunday. And U.S. counselor service remain close today in Riyadh, in Jeddah, and Duran, Saudi Arabia.
Joining us now is CNN analysts Fran Townsend and Phil Mudd. Fran, as you many know is a former White House homeland security advisor, currently serves on the DHS and CIA external advisory boards and Phil Mudd is a former counterterrorism official at the FBI as well as at the CIA.
Fran, no group claiming responsibility, but it certainly seems orchestrated at least on a small scale. Do you think this is a connection to Libya, to is, to what?
FRAN TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I think -- look. We've seen a growing sense of sort of extremism throughout the region. The best known most recent one is the Libya execution of the 21 Catholic Christians. So there is likely some bleed out from Libya. But it could be almost anything, right? It could be ISIS for sure who were responsible for that execution.
COOPER: Because there are a lot of Tunisians who have left to go fight for ISIS.
TOWNSEND: Thousands. They are one, if not the biggest, one of the biggest in terms of going to the fight. And of course you worry about them coming back. You have got the unrest in Libya. And so, you don't know is it ISIS, is it Ansar al-Sharia, is it Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb?
But it seems to me that most likely, you know, what the Member of Parliament was saying to you is, these twitter accounts she is referring to, these are mostly ISIS-related and I think that's the expectation. Of course, we've seen recently the desecration of antiquities by ISIS in Iraq and so the attack on the museum, you wonder if that's not an indication.
COOPER: Also, Phil, I mean, obviously the museum is where foreigners are. There were two cruise ships which had come into town. It's pretty much a soft target even though it's the same entrance as to the parliament building. And if you attack tourism as happened in Egypt. I remember back in the '90s, you really damage the tourist industry which were place like Tunisia, is critical at this juncture.
PHILLIP MUDD, CNN COUNTER TERRORISM ANALYST: That's right. That's why this suggest to me, I agree with Fran, that this is not individuals. This is somehow linked. Maybe it's only ideologically instead of operationally, somehow linked to larger group because somebody sat down and thought through not only the operational plan.
This is a pretty sophisticated target contrasted, for example, to what we saw in Paris a while ago. The other issue is what you raised in terms of the strategy here. This isn't just attacking a museum or a parliament. This is a message to the Tunisian government that say we are going to take out revenue from the government by undercutting tourism. This is a message that says we will destabilize you like the lack of tourism in Egypt has destabilized the economy in Egypt. We will destabilize you by hitting targets that bring in western dollars.
COOPER: And yet again, Fran, we've seen that a handful of people. I mean, they believe there's three on the loose now, at least two were killed inside. A handful of people armed with, you know, ak-47s or whatever, can really paralyze a city and get international attention. I mean, again, this is just the latest example of something we've seen time after time with increasing frequency.
TOWNSEND: That's exactly right. And to Phil's point, look, to take this, it is a soft target which makes it easier in terms of to breach, to get inside, but there were at least now according to authorities, five people. They were heavily armed. They held a building. That building wasn't cleared for over an hour. So this was tactically very well planned. That was not a pick-up game. This wasn't a lone Wolf. They may not have command and control structure back to a larger organization. But this cell itself was quite capable and spent time planning for.
COOPER: Phil, do law enforcement agencies in the United States know how to deal and train on how to deal with this kind of attack? Because I mean, everybody, you know, we talked about this before, does seem highly likely that some point, something like this, small group of people going to a mall or whatever will happen in the United States. And just as after columbine, law enforcement realized, OK, you don't hold back, you actually go in when there was an act of shooter situation. Are they training for this?
[20:09:58] MUDD: Every major police department is going to look at this kind of phenomenon. The problem is the variety of the phenomenon. For example, you remember years ago we had the attack against hotels in a Jewish center in India by people coming by the sea to attack the facility.
COOPER: Right, in Mumbai. MUDD: Yes, that's right. You think about east coast, west coast,
where could you conduct that kind of attack? So you could think about how to react to this kind of event. The problem in this situation in an open society of 300 million people, American citizens are going to think that law enforcement can prevent this.
You get five guys in this kind of SWAT gear and get weapons, I don't know how you prevent that when you're going after targets like a museum or an open government facility. You can react to it and train to that. You can't figure out how to prevent it.
Phil Mudd, appreciate you being on. Fran Townsend as well.
Just ahead, the breaking news out of Arizona. What we are now learning about the skinhead suspect who is accused of going on a shooting frenzy today outside Phoenix. That's an earlier mug shot of him.
Also tonight, what's been done about reported death threats against America's best known first daughter, Caroline Kennedy, the U.S. ambassador to Japan?
And later, a mom calls for police to help with her troubled son ends up watching in horror as they shoot and kill him. The question, why do they open fire? Did they have to? The answer may not be as simple as you think.
[20:14:27] COOPER: Late developments in a shooting rampage that paralyzed the city of Mesa, just outside Phoenix, Arizona today. Six people shot, one of them killed in a series of locations this morning. And now a suspect is in custody. He is a skinhead. In fact, he has the actual words skinhead in head tattooed there above his eyebrows or as his eyebrows. You see the number 88 on the side of his face. That's skinhead code for Hail Hitler. The suspect is the man with a long criminal record, as you might imagine.
Joining us now is Stephanie Elam in Mesa with the very latest on who he is and what police are saying. Did this guy know the people that he shot or allegedly shot?
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Police do believe that this suspect did know the people, at least in the first interaction that he had when he started shooting. Now, just taking a look. It happened right down the street here in Mesa, Arizona. And the man they say his name is Ryan Giroux. They said they have now confirmed that that his name, releasing that name now.
The shooting started when he apparently had an argument in a motel room and then outside of that room, they believed, he then shot three people, one of them being a man that has now died. He also wounded two women there. They believe after that point, he started to run to try to get away from this and that's when more people were hurt. There was one student from nearby East Valley Institute of Technology who was injured. And then they also believe the suspect carjacked a Honda, which is still not been recovered and then broke into an apartment. Shot the man there and then broke into an adjacent apartment complex to another apartment unit and shot another man there. Both those men are expected to live. Police believe that he was trying to rob both of those men when he shot them, Anderson.
[20:16:07] COOPER: Where did they finally find them?
ELAM: They actually found him inside of a vacant condominium. He was on the second floor. SWAT, Mesa SWAT was able to surround him, find him. They tasered him to get control of him. He was taken to a hospital where he was treated and released. And at this point, we understand that he is being interviewed by the police department at this time, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Stephanie Elam, thanks very much.
Now Caroline Kennedy, she is Washington's top diplomat in Japan, of course. Perhaps, America's best known ambassador peer (ph) and someone who at the very young age saw both her father and uncle murdered. According to Japanese media, authorities there investigating recent death threats against her. This is happening with two American VIPs in Japan and we have seen tonight, growing concern about security of U.S. diplomatic facilities around the world.
Jim Acosta has more.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The state department said it's taking seriously news reports out of Tokyo that Caroline Kennedy, the daughter of an American political dynasty and U.S. ambassador to Japan, was the subject of death threats.
JEN PSAKI, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: We take every step possible to protect our personnel. We're working with the Japanese government to ensure that necessary security measures are in place.
ACOSTA: State department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said the reported phoned in threats to Kennedy and another American diplomat in Okinawa last month they have not prompted security changes at the U.S. embassy in Japan.
That's despite the fact that first lady Michelle Obama just landed in Tokyo for an overseas trip that will included a meeting with Kennedy. Former president Bill Clinton was just in Tokyo appearing alongside Kennedy before delivering a speech on her father's legacy which was cut short a half century ago. The president's selection of a child of Pamela to become ambassador to Japan in 2013 was a sign of Asia's growing significance in U.S. foreign policy.
THOMAS SCHIEFFER, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO AUSTRALIA: The Japanese government in particular will take this very seriously. They provide the bulk of the security for the American ambassador. I'm confident that the Japanese will do everything they can to protect Ambassador Kennedy.
ACOSTA: Diplomatic personnel in Asia are already on edge after the knife attack on U.S. ambassador to South Korea, Mark Lippert, who is awaiting a security report on that incident.
MARK LIPPERT, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO SOUTH KOREA: I think they're going to get to the bottom of it and take a hard look at all the tactics, procedures in place both here in Seoul and around the world.
ACOSTA: State department security overseas is now a constant concern, considering the recent evacuation of U.S. embassy in Yemen, the suspension of consular services in Saudi Arabia, and the closing of the U.S. embassy in Djibouti.
As of that apparent threat to Ambassador Kennedy, Japanese media reports say it was phoned in by an English speaking man. But authorities either don't know or they are not saying at this point who that person could be.
Jim Acosta, CNN, the White House.
COOPER: Well, just ahead, the body camp video showing the fatal shooting by a mentally ill man by police. His mom had called the police to help get her son to the hospital. Details ahead.
[20:23:01] COOPER: Tonight, another body cam video is putting a spotlight on deadly police force and sparking anger. The family of Jason Harris, the mentally ill man, shot dead by two Dallas officers say they want the video to spark reforms at how police interact with the mentally ill. The day that Jason Harrison died, his mother called police for help getting him to the hospital. Now, we want to warn you, the video is very graphic and obviously disturbing to watch. We'll let you to decide what to make of it.
Randi Kaye has more.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two Dallas police officers arriving for what they expect will be a routine disturbance call. Other officers had been to this home dozens of times before. This time would be different and it's all about to be captured on the officer's body camera.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police. Hello.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How you doing, what's going on?
KAYE: Shirley Harrison answers the door. She called police about her son, Jason. He's bipolar schizophrenic and off his medication. She is trying to get him to the hospital.
SHIRLEY HARRISON, VICTIM'S MOTHER: He is a schizophrenic. Bipolar, schizo.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's going on.
KAYE: As Shirley walks out, police notice a screwdriver in her son, Jason's hands. What happens next is hard to watch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop that. Drop it.
HARRISON: They killed my child. They killed my child.
KAYE: Within ten seconds of the front door being open, Jason Harrison lay dying in his own driveway shot at least five times twice in the back by Officer John Rogers and Andrew Hutchins who was wearing the body camera. His family says Jason hadn't committed any crime nor did he likely understand why officers were even there.
What do you think police that day could have done differently?
SEAN HARRISON, JASON'S BROTHER: They should have not been yelling orders off the top. Because you've got someone that's mental, they're already confused, now stick a gun in their face and you yell at them.
[20:25:04] KAYE: When Shirley Harrison had called 9-1-1 for help, she told them her son was mentally ill and needed to get to a hospital.
SHIRLEY HARRISON: Didn't take him to Parkland. They took him to the morgue.
KAYE: So why did the officers open fire? Dallas police wouldn't talk to us but the attorney for the officers did.
Was there any other option other than deadly force in this case?
CHRIS LIVINGSTON, ATTORNEY FOR THE ACCUSED OFFICERS: No, there's not because this is a deadly force encounter and what they, when you respond to lethal force, you respond to that with lethal force. A taser is a less lethal item.
KAYE: Soon after the shooting, the officer signed affidavits. Both say Jason Harris lunged at them. But here is the thing. Officer Hutchins says he launched at Officer Rogers first and raised the screwdriver in the air. Officer Rogers said he launched at Officer Hutchins first. Both officers agreed, though, that the screwdriver could have been used as a deadly puncture weapon.
With Jason bleeding out in the driveway, back-up arrives. Listen as Officer Hutchins tries to explain to the others why they fired.
ANDREW HUTCHINS, DALLAS POLICE SHOT JASON HARRISON: Here's another 08. He had a screwdriver. We had this behind it we had to. He came at us.
KAYE: But did he? Watch again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop that for me. Drop it for me.
SHIRLEY HARRISON: Jay.
KAYE: The Harrison's family attorney said if Jason really lunged at the officer, you would have seen his whole body fill the screen of the body camera.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. He didn't lunge. He didn't stab. He didn't jab. There was no thrust. There was no Zorro move.
KAYE: And what about after the shooting? The officers continue to yell at him to drop his weapon as he lay motionless, listen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop it, guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put the damn thing down. Put the screwdriver down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, man.
KAYE: After several minutes, Officer Rogers gets close enough to remove the screwdriver from the victim's hand and then puts his hands behind his back. Jason Harrison's mother had specifically requested officers who were trained to deal with the mentally ill answer this call. The attorney for these officers tell us they do have that training.
About five-and-a-half minutes after the shooting, the ambulance arrives. But it was too late. Just 38, Jason Harrison was already dead.
COOPER: Randi joins me now from Dallas. So, what's happened to the officers, are they still working?
KAYE: They are, Anderson. They're still on the street. They are still getting paid. They are not working a desk job. They're not going home without pay. And all of this is happening while the grand jury here in Dallas is getting ready to actually investigate this case. They should be meeting on this case soon. But the officers will continue to get paid while that grand jury is under way. It is unclear how long it will take that grand jury to decide what to do about this case and whether or not the officers should be indicted.
But I should tell you also. We checked their record and we talked to the attorney about this as well. They've both been on the force here in Dallas, Anderson, about five years and neither of them has ever encountered anything like this. They never had any violent episodes or any shootings in their history.
COOPER: And was any medical attention given the guy once he was shot or was that - do they wait until paramedics arrived?
KAYE: No the entire video lasted 18 minutes and you can see they don't go over to him. They walked around him. They put his hands behind his back, as I said in the piece, but they never try to give him CPR or check on his wounds and we know he was shot at least five times. And I did ask the officer's attorney about that today and he said actually they're not allowed to. They're not trained for that, so they can't administer any type of medical help at all.
COOPER: All right, Randi, I appreciate that.
I want to bring in our panel, Dennis Routh (ph), an expert on police practices in use of force, Areva Martin, the attorney and legal affairs commentator and Dan Bongino, a former NYPD officer and former secret service agent.
Dan, when you look at the tape, as horrible as it is, what do you see? Was this a justified use of force?
DAN BONGINO, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: Yes, it's definitely a tragedy, Anderson, anytime you deal with anyone with mental illness, it's tough to even know what the intent was, if there was any malicious intent at all. But yes, the answer is it was a use of force, deadly use of force scenario. The bulletproof vest, the bullet resistant material in those vests they have on, Anderson, is not designed for sharp weapons. It's designed for bullets. I don't understand what else they wanted these officers to do. They were clearly boxed in by the car. There was nowhere else to go.
COOPER: Yes, I think so. Like a level 3-8 vest they are wearing and again, it is only for, really, pistol fire, not, there's a warning label on. I used to wear it. It says, you know, sharp objects will not be prevented from this.
Areva, what do you make? Do you think it was justified?
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: The video is so disturbing to me, Anderson. When I look at it, the mother called, told the police department that her son had mental health issues. The police department knew because they have responded to this house on so many occasions, and there was nothing there to try to de-escalate the situation. These shots were fired within three to five seconds of them arriving. There's yelling and pointing a gun at a man that has mental health issues. No effort to try to talk to him, tell him why they are there, try to build some trust, try to step away from the situation, and do anything. And to talk about this being lethal force, the man is standing there with a small screwdriver. We never see his body lunge and if a small screwdriver constitutes lethal force, then what is a gun? And this whole concept as a bulletproof vest, you know, can be penetrated by a screwdriver, you know, the sun can fall out the sky. Anything is possible, but the chances of this man causing bodily harm to these two officers is so remote that I can't even understand and wrap my mind around that argument.
COOPER: Dennis, how do you see it? I mean it did escalate quickly, but was there anything else they could have done?
DENNIS ROOT, POLICE PRACTICES & USE OF FORCE EXPERT: Well, you know, the interpretation of any weapons system you have to worry about it, a screwdriver is a deadly weapon. There's no doubt about that. But she brings up a good point. What we have to look at is the training aspect that goes along to it. The officers were dispatched to a call that involved an individual who has mental health issues. Putting aside the deadly force encounter that they articulated, we have to look at how they interacted, was there anything that we could learn from this that we can progress forward and so looking at how do we deal with these, they are not so uncommon calls anymore. And how we interact with a person, the tone of our voice, the modulation as well as, you know, understanding what they may be going through, how they perceive the environment around them. It really underscores the need for continuing dedicated ongoing training dealing with crisis intervention techniques.
COOPER: Do you think there is enough training at this point for police officers in dealing with mental health issues? Because my understanding with police is, you want to have command authority, you want to have authority, you want to kind of take command of a situation. Are you saying that when dealing with somebody who has mental health issues, that may not be the best route?
ROOT: Well, anytime you call law enforcement to your residence, your business, or anywhere in the community, there's always the authority that comes with them, because they are law enforcement. But what we have to do, is ensure they understand how to interact with the person. You know, they can be in control of a situation, but the training that takes place, a lot of organizations say that, well, we have training, and we go through crisis intervention training. If you went through a crisis intervention training five years ago and never had an opportunity to use it and never revisited it, how does that even count as training anymore? This is something that because of the calls for service that our law enforcement experiences across the United States, it has to be ongoing. We're not asking them to be social workers. We're asking them to understand the event they're encountering and give them the tools and understanding how to deal with it.
COOPER: Dan, what do you say to Areva who says look, you know, she has questions about whether or not really it's a deadly weapon and how this was escalated?
DAN BONGINO, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: Yeah, Areva has no idea what she's talking about and I don't mean to be rude, but you'd be dead in five minutes in the street. Are you serious? Do you really believe that those officers walked up to the door with the intent to kill this guy? That didn't - that whole scenario went down in about ten seconds. The mother walks out the door and says, and I'm quoting, he's bipolar schizo and then where it said inaudible, it sounded to me like she said, he's talking about chopping up people. Listen to it again. He then lunges at them with a screwdriver that would penetrate their hearts in a second and you're going to sit there and lecture these -- are you kidding me? You would be dead in five seconds on the street. Thank God you're not a police officer.
MARTIN: Well, first of all, you said you're not trying to offend me, but you proceeded to offend me. But putting that aside, there's no evidence that this man, this mentally disabled man lunged at them whatsoever. We also know these police officers have gotten their stories conflicted. One says he lunged at one officer, the other officer contradicts that statement. So, the credibility of these officers and the statements that they believe they're in fear are completely suspect at this point. And I do expect officers to show up with training to know how to deal with people who have mental illnesses and to start firing within five seconds without doing anything to de-escalate doesn't look like any training to me.
COOPER: We're going to have to continue to follow this and see where it goes. Areva Martin, I appreciate it. Dennis Root, Dan Bongino, thank you very much. Just ahead, more breaking news.
The FBI is now searching cold cases for links to Robert Durst as he waits extradition on a murder charge in California. New details ahead.
COOPER: Welcome back. FBI's asking local police in areas where Robert Durst has lived to examine cold cases for possible connections to the accused murderer. Newly released court document showed that Durst appeared to be preparing for a life on the run before his arrest on Saturday. Get more than $40,000 in cash and a net to head latex mask to disguise himself. Tonight, he's being held on the mental health unit of a Louisiana prison on drug and weapons charges. He'll be extradited to Los Angeles to face a first-degree murder charge in the death of a longtime confidant. Durst was arrested a day before the season finale of the HBO documentary series "The Jinx" finally aired and here's the moment in the final episode where prosecutors say he confesses he's not on camera, he's in a bathroom, listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE), Killed them all, of course.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Durst made those remarks in the bathroom. His microphone was still on. And one of many questions tonight when he says, quote, "kill them all," does that include his first wife who seemed to vanish into thin air and has never been found? Jean Casarez reports.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kathie McCormack and Robert Durst were married in the early '70s. Friends say they started out as any young couple in love, but coming from totally different worlds. He, the son of the Durst family New York real estate dynasty. She, a young woman with ambitions of her own, pursuing a medical degree. But according to Kathy's close friend, Ellen Strauss, as time went on, things changed dramatically.
ELLEN STRAUSS, FRIEND OF KATHIE MCCORMACK: In the beginning, it was prince charming and Cinderella. Time went by, I would say that it became more and more violent. When I was in law school and she was in medical school, I had call forwarded to my - where I was and she would call me late at night for hours about his violence.
CASAREZ: Kathie wrote in her diary about her abusive marriage. Friends told her to leave him.
STRAUSS: I used to say leave, get out. The guy is crazy, he talks to himself. Leave.
CASAREZ: But she stayed. In the HBO documentary "The Jinx" friends say Kathie believed her life was in danger.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said to me, promise me if something happens, you'll check it out. I'm afraid of Bobby. And I just said, Kathie, of course.
CASAREZ: Then, in January of 1982, Kathie disappears, but Durst doesn't report it for four days. He later claimed he last saw her when leaving her at a train station to return to New York City for medical school. Her friends and family were devastated.
JIM MCCORMACK, KATHIE MCCORMACK'S BROTHER: You're angry that, you know, that this can't be happening. You're basically in disbelief. Kathie had a heart of gold. She loved Bob. She absolutely loved him at the very beginning. He was good to her. I believe he loved her.
CASAREZ: Law enforcement had very few leads.
MIKE STRUK, RETIRED NYPD HOMICIDE DETECTIVE: We never found her body. We never even, had a crime scene. She could have met her demise in New York or upstate New York or Jersey or any place.
CASAREZ: Missing person posters went up. But time went on and no Kathie. Meanwhile, friends and family were watching Robert Durst and believed something just didn't seem right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I went through his garbage and I found that he was throwing her things out right away. You know, within five weeks at least of her disappearance. He knew she wasn't coming back.
CASAREZ: Durst was questioned but never charged. The investigation into Kathie's disappearance was reopened in 2000 by New York authorities. Coincidental or not, Durst moved to Galveston, Texas, in November of that year. Taking residency under a false name and at times wearing a wig, posing as a woman. One month later, investigators were set to interview Durst's longtime confidant, Susan Berman in Los Angeles about Kathie's disappearance, but before they could, she was found dead in her home. Shot execution style with a bullet to the head. Whatever Berman knew about Kathie's dead would go with her to her grave and the family that needed those answers were left with none. Jean Casarez, CNN, Los Angeles.
COOPER: Kathie Durst's brother, Jim McCormack, who you just saw in "Jinx" report, has never doubted that his former brother-in-law is responsible for his sister's death. He joins me tonight.
Jim, is there any doubt after all these years, any doubt in your mind that your sister was murdered by Robert Durst?
MCCORMACK: Absolutely no doubt at all.
COOPER: I'm wondering what your reaction was when at the end of "The Jinx," you heard him say that himself, killed them all, of course.
MCCORMACK: Basically it was a confirmation of what I believed for so many years, what other people have believed for so many years and how like you have that long exhale, and said - and you are saying to yourself, finally, we can finally go to closure.
COOPER: Does any of it make any sense to you? Murder can never make sense to a rational mind, but was there any - were there red flags? What do you think the motive was?
MCCORMACK: And the motive was actually he was losing control of the only person or thing he ever had control of, including himself to some degree. Kathie had like I said, loved him at the beginning and then as his true self started to emerge, he started becoming abusive on at least six levels that I can remember or have reflected upon or defined. And as that abuse escalated, Kathie said, well, I'm going to move on. Especially after the abortion was forced on her. She got the nursing degree. However, she fell in love with the health care industry and it fed into her caregiver personality. Next thing you know, she was going to be a doctor. Self-reliant, you know, finally able to take care of herself. Not really in need of his economic support. And he just couldn't deal with that loss of control.
COOPER: You know, it was fascinating to watch him agree to be interviewed. You know, some people raised the idea, well, did he in some way want to be caught? The fact that he was putting himself in front of the cameras, that he would mumble these things and ultimately say these things under his breath. Do you believe that there is some part of him that wants to fully come clean?
MCCORMACK: I think he's been searching for his own version of closure for quite some time. What was telling to me at the early part of "The Jinx," when he used the word mommy, although he was speaking in a past tense situation, kind of mimicking his childhood reaction to his mother being loaded to the grave.
It's almost like he was really bringing it forward. You know, Mommy, why is mommy in the box? What are they doing to Mommy? And I'm listening to this, and I was saying, my goodness. This guy's soul is bubbling up. He's showing us what he once was and maybe now he wants to show what he is now and on that note, I think he does to your point seek to release the demons and give it all up. If he can only get rid of the people who surround him seeking his fortune. And to manage it, to control it, spend it. He may be a free man even if he's incarcerated. COOPER: Jim McCormack, I appreciate you talking to us and
representing your sister so well. Thank you so much.
MCCORMACK: Thank you, Anderson. Thank you for having me on.
COOPER: Up next, watch lighter staff. Prince Charles and his wife Camilla get the royal treatment at our nation's capital while back in London (INAUDIBLE) spills the key detail about royal baby number two.
COOPER: The Britain's Prince Charles and his wife Camilla played tourists on their first full day in Washington. They had a busy day, including visits to some memorial on the National Mall. And now we know when their second royal grandchild is expected to arrive after Duchess Kate shared the details in an event in London. Max foster reports.
MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They may not know the sex of the new royal baby, but they do know when it's due. And she just let slip.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's your name?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My name is Rebekah.
FOSTER: Kate at a charity event said she is expecting in the second half of April, just before the British election. Wonder which one will get the most headlines. After bouts of morning sickness, she's felt well enough for a flurry of public appearances. Her last one planned for the end of next week. Meanwhile, stateside, grandfather is on a four-day tour with his wife Camilla, the duchess of Cornwall. They took him for sights in Washington, D.C. and met national icons. There were swarms by delighted tourists at Mount Vernon. And at the Lincoln Memorial. A very different tone to their visit ten years ago when Diana fans with abusive placards greeted them not so warmly. It was just after they married and Diana played on the minds of royal fans. And this tour, no such scene so far. The public may be warming to Camilla. The couple stick to doing what they know and like. That authenticity seems to come across now. It's a simple strategy like a day trip through Louisville, Kentucky, on Friday, to promote farming and sustainability. Also, Charles seems to have a warm relationship with President Obama, they've met on several occasions and will do so again at the White House on Thursday. And they'll be back home in the U.K. with a month to go until they get to meet Prince George's little brother or sister for the first time.
COOPER: So, Max, what's in store for the rest of Prince Charles' trip?
FOSTER: Well, currently as we speak, Anderson, they're at a fundraiser, effectively, or a thank you for U.S. - as to that charity. This is a key part of that trick, really. They raise a lot of money from the U.S. So a thank you there. And then on Thursday, I think the key moment of the whole trip is, of course, meeting with President Obama in the White House. Joe Biden will also be there. But they'll also to meet the congressional leadership on Capitol Hill. This is quite interesting, because, you know, as head of state, as king, he wouldn't be able to express his personal views. That will be getting too close to politics. But I think as Prince of Wales is heir to the throne, he feels he can express his views and - to the most powerful capital in the world, Washington D.C.
So he'll be expressing his views to the most powerful people in the world effectively there and whilst he's doing that, his wife, the Duchess of Cornwall, will be meeting with the District of Columbia's Sexual Assault Response Team. She's very big on this, working with victims of rape and sexual violence. So several events organized and then he go on to Louisville and Kentucky for a whole set of other events as well on Friday.
COOPER: All right. Max, thank you very much. Max Foster.
Something to make you smile at the end of the day. "The Ridiculist" is next.
COOPER: Time now for "The Ridiculist." And tonight it involves cable TV's grandfather who just woke up from a nap better known as C-SPAN. C-SPAN as many of you know, thrives on viewer phone calls. For you, young people, phone calls are when two human beings actually have a verbal conversation in real time. It's kind of like Twitter, only not as rage filled. Anyway, it was just after 7:00 a.m. when C-SPAN was doing a segment on the Iran nuclear deal, well, just listen carefully.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here is jack. Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, good morning. I'm Jack Strickland. I just want to make it clear, first of all, I'm calling from Bel Air, California, but I am originally from Philadelphia. Specifically, west of Philadelphia. But anyway, I was actually discussing this issue with a friend of mine recently while I was in Philly, clear down the basketball court. Some point during the conversation, a couple of guys who were up to no good eventually started causing trouble in my neighborhood. I got in one little fight and my mom got scared and said you are moving with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, for the first 45 minutes of Iran negotiation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: OK, first of all, if you didn't recognize those words, shame on you. The caller, who again, I want to stress was awake at 7:00 in the morning with apparently nothing else to do calls C-SPAN, got past the phone screener and started reciting the theme song to the Fresh Prince of Bel Air. That's right. The Fresh Prince of Bel Air. Allow me to refresh your memory.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN (singing): "A couple of guys, they were up to no good started making trouble in my neighborhood. I got in one little fight, and my mom got scared and said you're moving with your auntie and uncle in Bel Air."
COOPER: It's a classic. Never a dull moment on C-SPAN. There's other news tonight. I want to go to Washington D.C. Wolf Blitzer who's following a developing story on Capitol Hill. Wolf, what's the latest?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson, happening now. I've been talking to my sources in Congress who tell me you take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have the facts of life, the facts of life.
COOPER: Wolf, I hate to interrupt you, but I think you're just reciting the theme song to the facts of life. I thought you actually had a developing story.
BLITZER: You're right, Anderson, I do. The verdict is in. And it's unanimous. There ain't no nothing we can't love each other through. What would we do, baby, without us, sha la la la?
COOPER: Wolf, I know that one. That's "Family Ties." This is not my first rodeo. I know my Marion Baxter and Bernie sitcoms. Do you have any actual news tonight? Any real news tonight?
BLITZER: We do, Anderson. We have breaking news. Multiple sources telling CNN that if you threw a party and invited everyone you knew, you would see the biggest gift would be from me and the card attached would say thank you for being a friend.
COOPER: It wasn't until the end that I realize you're quoting "The Golden Girls." You, me, John King, Jeff Toobin. "The Golden Girls." Wolf, thank you for reporting tonight, my friend. I appreciate it. And I like the glasses. By the way, is everyone at CNN now wearing these glasses?
COOPER: It seems --
BLITZER: It's mandatory, we all have to wear these glasses.
COOPER: It does seem. I mean I turn on, I see Carol Costello wearing these glasses, I see Don Lemon wearing these glasses.
COOPER: It seems like - I think you were the first. I think I was the second.
BLITZER: It's happening now.
COOPER: Thank you very much, Mr. Blitzer, I appreciate it.
That does it for us. We'll see you again at 11:00 p.m. Eastern for another edition of 360.
"ANTHONY BOURDAIN: PARTS UNKNOWN" starts now.