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Volunteer Deputy Charged in Tulsa Shooting; New Dash Cam Video Showing Tasing Incident in 2014; Hillary Clinton on the Campaign Trail; Marco Rubio Throws Hat in Ring. CNN Hero: Maggie Doyne. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired April 13, 2015 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:01:00] BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Anderson, thank you so much. Great to be on tonight.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Brooke Baldwin sitting in for Don Lemon.
Caught on camera again in Tulsa. A reserve sheriff's deputy is charged with second-degree manslaughter after he allegedly mistakes his gun for a taser and shoots a suspect to death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my god, I'm sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: In North Charleston, moments after this, Officer Michael Slager is heard talking with another officer and chuckling about his adrenaline high.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By the time you get home, it'd probably be a good idea to kind of jot down your thoughts about whatever happened.
MICHAEL SLAGER, FORMER NORTH CHARLESTON POLICE OFFICER: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once the adrenaline stops pumping.
SLAGER: Yes, it's pumping.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: One question we're asking tonight, what do we expect from the men and the women who are sworn to protect us?
We got lots to get through tonight but I want to begin with that shooting in Tulsa all because of this 73-year-old volunteer sheriff's deputy by the name of Robert Bates. Allegedly, he thought he was a holding a taser and not a handgun.
Let's begin tonight with CNN's Ed Lavandera live for us in Tulsa. And, Ed, just begin with, listen, a lot of questions obviously
surrounding all of this and Robert Bates. What exactly happened? What do you know?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that tonight Robert Bates is facing second-degree manslaughter charges, criminal charges that were filed this afternoon by prosecutors here in Tulsa County. And it stems from this shooting incident that happened earlier this month. Take a look at how it all unfolded. This was captured from a camera placed on glasses that one of the deputies was wearing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop right there. (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roll on your stomach.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop fighting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I shot him, I'm sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ouch. (EXPLETIVE DELETED). He shot me He shot me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop fighting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He shot me. He shot me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your hands off me, you hear me. I'm not going to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) ran.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He shot me. I didn't do (EXPLETIVE DELETED). He shot me, man. Oh, my god.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He didn't (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn't do (EXPLETIVE DELETED), you hear me? I'm losing my breath.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) your breath. Put his hands back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAVANDERA: Brooke, after seeing all of that, Robert Bates still has the support of the leadership at the sheriff's department who had recommended and asked prosecutors here in Tulsa not to file criminal charges. They say that this was an excusable action given his role and his official capacity as a reserve deputy and working in this sting operation. And his defense attorney is also saying that he should not have been charged, that this was an accident of misfortune -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Right. We're about to talk to his attorney, but first, let me just ask you to back up. I mean, what led to the shooting in the first place, Eddie?
LAVANDERA: Well, this was an undercover sting operation. They say that Eric Harris had a long history, that he was involved in various drug offenses, as well as the sale of this illegal arms. You can take a look a little bit, there was one video that was captured just before Eric Harris started running. This was taken inside the car where Eric Harris is seen on tape passing a gun to one of the undercover deputies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got you. I just -- it's just going to be a little bit -- (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got another one, or is that it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's it. It's a German luger. I got German luger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look out. He's running, he's running, he's running.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAVANDERA: And we're told by sheriff's officials, Brooke, that Robert Bates was not -- was supposed to be in a backup role in this situation. That he was not on that front line of deputies that were supposed to make the arrests. But that when Eric Harris ran past those deputies, he was then kind of, they say, thrust into this situation. They say he was in a backup role in that capacity.
We asked him should he have been in that situation, deploying a taser or a handgun, and they say he was working within his official capacity.
BALDWIN: Yes. They clearly say, you know, this was not the plan obviously.
Ed Lavandera, thank you very much.
Let me bring in Clark Brewster, he's an attorney for Robert Bates. He has just met with his client. Mr. Brewster, great to have you on tonight. Let's just begin with
what exactly your client -- we heard a little bit about how Mr. Bates was supposed to be backup. He was that last patrol car, almost ran into this man heading toward him. Walk me through what happened.
[22:05:17] CLARK BREWSTER, ATTORNEY FOR ROBERT BATES: Well, Mr. Bates and the team was briefed that Mr. Harris was a six-time felon. He had armed robbery conviction, assault and battery on police officers, escaped from a penal institution. He had been known to be selling drugs and weapons. And it was arranged to do an undercover buy.
Mr. Bates was merely part of the containment team two blocks away. He wasn't intended to be pressed into any kind of action, other than to provide observation and containment.
BALDWIN: I know he'd been with the violent crime unit from 2008, but can you explain to me just a little bit more about his role as this reserve deputy? I understand he had donated some weapons to the sheriff's department, had been involved with them for some time. How often had he been out on an operation like this?
BREWSTER: Well, Mr. Bates is a former Tulsa police officer. He's cleat certified, highly trained. In addition to being cleat certified has been through hundreds of hours of training. And certainly would have the training to equip him and to qualify him for the position he held that day. But he's been out on a number of missions with them. Usually as a containment officer or a person bringing equipment or as a scribe.
He's seldom pressed into action, but Mr. Harris ran virtually two blocks right into Mr. Bates and the fight unfolded right in front of Mr. Bates.
BALDWIN: I understand that wasn't the plan, but if you're saying he's a former Tulsa officer, this tells me he has been in situations in the past. How did this go so wrong? How did a man who has previous experience mistake a taser for a gun?
BREWSTER: Well, I mean, it's human error, frankly. It's like you lock your keys in your car or --
BALDWIN: That's a major error, sir.
BREWSTER: No, well, I know. It lost -- cost someone their life. So it's major. But it's inadvertent. You are in a stressful situation. You react in a way that is automatic, and he pulled the wrong device. And frankly he pulled the gun instead of the taser.
BALDWIN: Do you have any idea if -- because I've talked to a number of police officers, who say, you know, your predominant hand, your right hand, for example, that is where you should have your gun, on the right side of your holster, the taser on the left. Do you even know the specifics as far as those were confused?
BREWSTER: Well, I know this. He's left-hand dominant. He was carrying a pepper gun in his left hand. Within virtually seconds of Mr. Harris being taken to the ground and then fighting the other officers he announced taser, taser, used his non-dominant hand and it was the gun. He said that he saw the laser sight on the shoulder, assumed it was the taser. Both the gun and the taser have a laser sight. And he just made a mistake.
It's not the first time a highly trained officer has made that same mistake across this country.
BALDWIN: No. I understand. Of course it's not. But, you know, when it does, it makes news, especially when someone loses his life.
BALDWIN: And especially when someone with experience such as your client.
Let me just ask you, just explain to people who are trying to understand what a reserve deputy does and their role with the sheriff's department, specifically the gifts, the guns he's given.
BREWSTER: Well, I mean, the fact that he's been benevolent to the department shouldn't be criticized. It should be applauded. I mean, we have a lot of citizens that give to the community. And we have a very benevolent community here, large givers to the city and to the police departments and he's just -- he's a person that has stepped up not only with his time, but his benevolence. There's nothing sinister about that.
BALDWIN: Clark Brewster, I appreciate it very much. We'll follow through what happens to your client, charged with second-degree manslaughter.
Meantime, violent encounters with law enforcement, they're being caught on camera again and again across this country. And now the unwelcomed spotlight this time around is falling on Tulsa.
Joining me now, Mayor Dewey Bartlett.
Mr. Mayor, good evening.
MAYOR DEWEY BARTLETT, JR., TULSA, OKLAHOMA: Good evening, how are you?
BALDWIN: I'm doing OK. My question would be, how are you doing? Let's talk about Tulsa and let's talk specifically about -- I'm curious if you have had a chance to meet with Eric Harris's family yet.
BARTLETT: No, I have not. And I would like to clarify one thing just to make certain, of course this whole situation unfortunately unfolded with the Tulsa County Sheriff's Department. I'm mayor of the city of Tulsa. We have a city police department and they're not associated in any manner, shape, or form. What we're concerned about is the --
[22:10:02] BALDWIN: But, sir, this is your community. I mean, I understand you want to have a delineation between what's happening in the county.
BALDWIN: What's happened in your city. And I imagine you don't want to touch that. But these are your constituents. These are your people.
BARTLETT: Absolutely they are. And that's one of the things we recognize. And what we recognize very well is that the families that are involved with this, no matter what side of the issue you're on, these devastate families. We have been through these kind of events before, and what we do as a community, we understand very well that when something happens to one of our local families, this gentleman, he was a citizen in the city of Tulsa and it happened inside the city limits of Tulsa.
So we well understand the significance of it. But we come together as a group, we come together as a community, and we try to deal with this whole situation. But we really recognize the families. And we understand very well that whatever happens to one of our families, it has an impact upon the entirety of our city, good or bad. So we understand that and we try to deal with it in that way and hopefully use it as a tool to teach people and give them some good commonsense approach to not only policing, but also ways of life.
BALDWIN: Understand. And, you know, your whole point about how this affects their families, it's like you're a family there in Tulsa.
Let me play some sound. This is what Eric Harris's brother, this is the victim's brother, this is what he said today in a news conference. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDRE HARRIS, BROTHER OF ERIC HARRIS: When you're the law, I guess you feel like you can do things and get away with it and not get -- not get exposed. Well, we come to expose it. We come to pull the mask off the evil. We come to shine the light on the darkness, and we come for change, here in our community, in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Shine a light on the darkness, Mr. Mayor. How do you respond to that?
BARTLETT: Well, we're very fortunate we have a terrific police department. We have some very high standards. We require a college degree or similar before an individual will be considered to be a Tulsa police officer.
The gentleman that's having the problem, the deputy reserve, he was a Tulsa police officer, but I believe only for about one year and that was 30 or 40 years ago, and I believe it was before those standards were raised.
BALDWIN: So do you think it would be worth re-examining -- BARTLETT: So we deal with it very directly.
BALDWIN: Sir, forgive me, but do you think it'd be worth reexamining the use -- because I know not every city in this country, you know, uses reserve officers, reserve deputies at sheriff's departments. Should that be reconsidered?
BARTLETT: Well, we do use reserve officers but we do not use them in the way that the sheriff's department has done in this particular instance. We use them mainly for crowd control, for parking situations, working concerts, traffic control, that sort of thing. We -- our reserve officers go through an academy, they have very, very high standards of training much more so than many times other police departments.
So we do have very specific rules and regulations. They have a lot of supervision. So they are put in a situation to where this type of activity would not occur.
BALDWIN: OK, Mayor Dewey Bartlett in Tulsa tonight, thank you very much.
We have a lot to talk about this. When we come back, retired New York police detective weighs in. How do you confuse a taser and a handgun? We're going to drill down on that.
Also the road to the White House. Why President Obama is not yet endorsing Hillary Clinton. And why Marco Rubio could be up against his mentor Jeb Bush.
You're watching CNN.
[22:17:27] BALDWIN: You're watching CNN, I'm Brooke Baldwin.
A defense attorney already mapping out a legal strategy tonight for the volunteer deputy in Tulsa who was charged in the death of a man during this undercover operation.
Want to dig a little deeper into the case tonight with Marc Lamont Hill, CNN political commentator, Bernie Kerik, former New York City police commissioner and author of "From Jailer to Jailed." I've got Mel Robbins in the studios with me tonight, CNN commentator and legal analyst, and Harry Houck, retired New York City police detective.
So welcome to all of you. Wow. We have a lot to talk about. I think especially what I'm so mindful of in talking to both the mayor in Tulsa and also the defense attorney for, you know, Mr. Bates, one of the things that we're learning is that this officer who accidentally -- instead of tasing, shot and killed this man.
My question to you, Harry, would be, we're learning he was a police -- he was a police officer for the city of Tulsa, this is all according to the local newspaper in Tulsa, for one year back in the '60s and then becomes this reserve deputy in '08. Has given some money apparently to the sheriff's re-election campaign a couple of years later. What does this look like to you?
HARRY HOUCK, RETIRED NYPD DETECTIVE: Well, to me it's -- why was he only a police officer for one year? Did he have a problem with his probation period? All right. That's something we should kind of know about. All right. So that's a little bit of problem to me. Second of all, is why is an unprofessional -- listen, I got nothing against auxiliary police officers. They're great.
BALDWIN: They're helpful.
HOUCK: All right. Very helpful. You know, and they give their time. But the problem is, you can't have a man like this, on an undercover sting operation. All right, you got to have professionals that do this all the time.
BALDWIN: They say he was supposed to be support. He was the last line in the last patrol car there, was supposed to help --
HOUCK: Shouldn't have been anywhere around, this guy.
BALDWIN: OK. OK. Bernie Kerik, I'm curious, do you feel the same way, because with all your years here on the force in New York?
BERNARD KERIK, AUTHOR, "JAILER TO JAILED": Yes, I'd have to agree with Harry. I mean, this is a 73-year-old man. I don't know how much training they get as reserve officers there. But why he was on a sting -- any sting operation, but this is a sting operation where he was selling guns. He was giving a gun to an undercover.
BALDWIN: That's right.
KERIK: Why -- what he was doing in this group, I don't know. I just think it was inappropriate.
BALDWIN: According to the attorney, I think he was supposed to be there after this arrest was to have taken place when he would help with itemizing items within this man's apartment. Obviously, that didn't happen, this whole thing didn't go according to plan.
The other part of this, Mel, is the defense attorney says, no, no, they're overcharging him with second-degree manslaughter. They say it should be an excusable homicide. They say mistakes happen. You hear him say on the videotape, I'm sorry, it's a mistake. Your thoughts.
[22:20:10] MEL ROBBINS, CNN COMMENTATOR AND LEGAL ANALYST: Well, my immediate thought is this is exactly why you need an independent body that investigates the police instead of the police investigating the police. But also another thing that's going to be huge in this case is the potential civil liability of Tulsa. Because here you have what is clear a policy and a pattern and practice where a man with training, without training, who was a police officer maybe 50 years ago for a year, maybe not, who was sitting in on a sting operation, under the supervision and authority of the state, and he acted in that capacity and deprived this guy of his rights by killing him.
BALDWIN: But excusable homicide, when I read that tonight, it sounds like an oxymoron. I realize it is part of the law. I mean, homicide can be excusable based upon what? How would this be under that category?
ROBBINS: Well, I think how they think it would fit under that category is that they're looking at it in their judgment and through the lens of being an officer and saying, hey, under the circumstances of the stress, the fact that it was a mistake, the chaos of this guy escaping, the fact that he's a six-time felon, mistakes happen, too bad.
But the truth is, since you have video, since you now have the public leaning in and looking at these cases, you know, at first blush, we look at that and say, wait a minute, you may think it's excusable homicide, but this is not going to get dismissed because you believe that. It needs to go through the justice system and to have somebody as a purveyor of the facts take a look at whether or not.
He may have a defense. He may never be convicted, but let it go through the criminal justice system to make sure that this man who was killed gets his day in court.
BALDWIN: Marc Lamont Hill, I want to hear from you. I'm wondering, you know, if you see this as another example of somebody providing -- us having video, being able to see what exactly happened, saying it was a body camera. But especially lifting the veil over the role of this reserve deputy. Your thoughts?
MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I mean think this is exactly why we need to police the police. Without videotape, it's hard to imagine what the story would be. It may be the same story. I pulled the wrong weapon out, or it could be a story that he was trying to resist, that he was being violent.
We would do what we see is sort of common practice now. We tried out the person's prior arrests and their prior convictions, and we framed them as dangerous, we frame them as threatening, and then we justify killing them.
January 1st, 2009, Oscar Grant was killed by Bart Police our in Oakland and the very same argument was made. He was resisting arrest, he was on his back, and then we pulled out the taser, but accidentally put out a real gun and shot him in the back.
I mean, this story is far too common. So we have to make sure we investigate. I don't know the full story yet. No one knows the full story yet. We need to know exactly what happened there and exactly what his intentions are. But we can't reduce it finally to the level of this individual officer. We have to ask why he was allowed to be there. And the phrase, "F your breath" doesn't explain it --
BALDWIN: I want to get there. I'm glad you brought me to that. And we're going to get there. I want everyone -- let me hit pause in the conversation, I agree. That's an important point. The language. It wasn't necessarily the individual that we're discussing, but it was another officer on the scene. Coming up next, though, I want to share with you another caught on
camera case here as we're talking about all this tonight. This driver in South Carolina tasered during a traffic stop last year, the stun gun fired by the same police officer who is now charged with murder in the shooting death of Walter Scott.
[22:27:25] BALDWIN: All right. Tonight, police dash cam video has surfaced showing a tasing incident in South Carolina. This is from last summer that involved Officer Michael Slager who is now charged with murder in the shooting death of Walter Scott.
Joining me now CNN's Jason Carroll.
And, Jason, let me begin here. First let's start -- walk us through this video, this is 2004, Officer Slager stops this driver, similar to what happened recently, broken brake light. What happens from there?
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. It's -- Julius White was pulled over, this was last October, October of 2014. Pulled over and the dash cam video clearly shows that as the two officers tried to get him Julius White out of the car, he does resist. There's no argument there. In fact he pleaded guilty to resisting arrest.
Today his attorney came out, Brooke, and basically said that White -- Wilson basically stopped resisting once he was down on the ground. And so there's where you have this debate. The reason why Julius Wilson and his attorney are now coming out today is because they say in light of what's happened, in light of the fact that Officer Michael Slager was the one who showed up there as one of the responding officers and actually tased Julius Wilson, they say, perhaps this is a tape that needs to be re-examined in light of what's happened out here just recently.
And so, you know, obviously you have Wilson's critics who say, look, this is a man and his attorney who are simply trying to cash in on a tragedy. But Wilson's attorney said, no, that's not what's going on here. They say this is a case that needs to be looked at again.
BALDWIN: But I think -- again, just let me hammer home on the point you're making that, you know, this happened in 2014. This driver admitted previously to resisting arrest and is now coming forward in the wake of the Walter Scott shooting and saying, civil suit.
CARROLL: Coming forward and saying civil suit, suing the police department and the city as well. Again, a lot of people questioning the timing in this, especially when you consider that police were not trying to hide this. In fact, they admitted it into evidence against Julius Wilson back in August of 2014. Using this tape to show that he -- that they say that he was resisting arrest, not only when he was in the car, but also when he was on the ground.
BALDWIN: OK, Jason Carroll in North Charleston. Thank you.
Back with me, I've got Marc Lamont Hill, Bernard Kerik, Mel Robbins and Harry Houck.
So let's pick up here first and, Harry and Bernie, you're both out of the gate with your law enforcement expertise. This dash cam footage. And if we have it, guys, just get my ear and I can stop talking, and we can actually play it through again this -- in which Officer Slager uses the taser on this man who does not want to get out of the car. Can we roll it?
[22:30:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... roll over. Get out of the - you got (ph) do it. Got to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cuff him! Cuff him!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: So, I've watched, actually, there's several minutes that lead up to this moment, Bernie. First to you, in which you hear this officer asking him, seeing, you know,, appears to be by the book -- fairly politely, to get out of the car, get out of the car. He's not getting out ultimately seeing him down on the ground and they're tasing him. Bernie, it was from your vantage, proper protocol followed?
KERIK: Basically from what I see, yes. I mean, look, and the one thing Brooke that I think you're going to see over the next weeks, several months, this is not going to be the only case where lawyers come forward to talk about the officer's past conduct. There'll be several of these cases, I'm sure. Use of force cases, arrests, things like that. Any time an officer comes under scrutiny such as the officer involved in this shooting. Previous defense lawyers are going to come forward to have their cases looked at. This will not be the first one.
BALDWIN: So, this individual apparently came forward, he says, everything that happened with Walter Scott gave him this courage to come forward, even though as we had pointed out a minute ago, Mark (ph), you know, that he had admitted, he pleaded guilty for resisting arrest and this has only happened a year or so later. Did you find the timing suspect or not at all?
HILL: I mean, perhaps. I mean, oftentimes when one thing happens, the floodgates open up. It could be someone who's opportunistic, or it could be someone who finally feels that national tenor and tone has shifted in such a way that you could actually redress problems that are created by law enforcement.
BALDWIN: How has it shifted?
HILL: For very long - well because - because after the - after the Walter Scott shooting, after what we've seen around the country, after what we saw in Ferguson, and I'm not even talking about Michael Brown, I'm talking the sort of military response of law enforcement during the protests. America said, "Wait a minute the police aren't perfect here (ph). The police are not blameless here." And that kind of conversation allows us to actually seek justice when we couldn't before.
BALDWIN: I want you to weigh in on the point he's making and also with your legal hat on, now...
MEL ROBBINS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR AND LEGAL ANALYST: Yeah.
BALDWIN: ... that you have this civil case filed on...
BALDWIN: ... to already this murder charge most recently involving Officer Slager. Does that alter his case currently at all?
ROBBINS: With - is that the case against - what...
BALDWIN: Against Officer Slager currently involving the murder of Walter? Totally...
ROBBINS: No, totally different.
BALDWIN: Totally not.
ROBBINS: Totally different, and based on that, I mean, when you see the three police officers trying to extract somebody from a car that's clearly resisting, he's pled guilty. I would find it highly suspect that a 1980 -- Section 1983 claim would actually be successful in that case.
ROBBINS: But, you know, to Marc's point, he's right on one account. We saw it with the Bill Cosby situation. Where people...
BALDWIN: What do you mean?
ROBBINS: ... suddenly thought that they were going to be believed, and now you feel safe coming forward.
BALDWIN: Coming forward.
ROBBINS: However, that doesn't mean that we go to the other extreme and say that, of course, this is happening everywhere and all the police are bad. You have to look at these situations on a case by case basis and what's super problematic about this particular case in Tulsa, is the police knew that they had a 73-year-old man who probably didn't have the right training, who had absolutely no business being anywhere near an undercover sting (ph) operation, armed, who got involved, and as far as I can tell, violated his constitutional rights. He killed him.
HILL: That's the point. But I think that's the point right there because, otherwise, we end up creating a strawman argument, right? I mean, I agree that - that there's something wrong with the 73-year-old person involved in any kind of a sting, but I don't think that the argument from any protester or any critic has been that all police are bad. It's never been about - it's never been about individual police. We all know police officers who are nice people who we like. Who may be (ph) our friends or family.
BALDWIN: Let's talk about...
HILL: The question becomes...
BALDWIN: ... let me - let me jump in. It's really...
HILL: ... the structure.
BALDWIN: ... quickly and talk to a police officer. We definitely like when we appreciate having on. Anyway, I want to - I want to get him in and the reason is I think it's also really important to point out some of the audio that we're hearing not only from the recent incident in North Charleston, in which, you know, you hear almost this nervous laughter from this officer in talking about how his adrenaline is pumping, only place some other sound for you pivoting back to Tulsa, when you -- when hear this man down and he's saying, "I can't breathe essentially." This is what you hear next from another officer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My breath. (BEEP).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My breath.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listening back (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My breath.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: "F" your breath. Now, I know, not personally but I can understand...
HARRY HOWE, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: He probably said that, too.
BALDWIN: I know being a police officer is not a pretty profession.
HOWE: Right. They're not playing hopscotch with this guy. All right. The thing is when you've got guy and you're trying to handcuff from this (ph) - you say - you've to cuff yet, they all yell, I can't breathe. Well, you know what, if you can't breathe, you can't say, "I can't breathe." That we know for a fact.
BALDWIN: But then the officer saying "F" your breath, or I don't give an "F."
HOWE: Well, you know, you're in the middle of a fight.
ROBBINS: It's easy to take five seconds of audio and indict the police.
ROBBINS: You have to look at the fact that this is a sting operation where the guy was selling weapons illegally to an undercover officer who is part of a gang unit. He then takes off, and he's admitted to people on the scene that the paramedics that he was on PCP for crying out...
[22:35:02] BALDWIN: No. I understand.
HOWE: Bernie could attest to this, when somebody's on PCP, they're almost like super human strength.
BALDWIN: I'm not saying - no one is saying he shouldn't have been shot.
HILL: Well, really...
HOWE: Six of us, you know, trying to handcuff a guy who is on PCP. They're - they're insane, these guys.
BALDWIN: Go ahead -- go ahead, Marc.
HILL: Yeah, but once -- but once somebody is handcuffed or they say they can't breathe, there's no justifiable reason to say "F" your breath.
HOWE: Once they're handcuffed, though...
HILL: But what - what - once somebody is being - once somebody has been shot, there's no reason (ph) when you say, "Well, you shouldn't have run."
ROBBINS: Oh, you would...
HILL: PCP, handcuffed...
HOWE: Come on, Marc.
HILL: ... yeah, but - yes...
ROBBINS: We're not saying that he shouldn't have been. We're not using this - the shooting... HOWE: His words, the heat of passing (ph).
ROBBINS: ... as a justification for the fact that he shouldn't have seen. What I'm saying...
BALDWIN: And I don't think - I don't think he thinks you are.
HOWE: Hey Marc...
BALDWIN: I don't think he thinks you are.
ROBBINS: He wasn't cuffed. They're trying to get him under control. And the one officer has even said that he didn't know he had been shot at that point.
ROBBINS: And so, you know, I think - it's easy for us...
HOWE: But it happens so fast...
ROBBINS: ... it's like that they can freeze it for five seconds, Marc, and say, "Oh the police should have acted like they were having a cup of coffee." They're trying to get some guy...
HILL: No, no. Not accurate...
ROBBINS: ... under control.
HILL: ... cup of coffee.
BALDWIN: Marc, you get the - you get the final go. We got to go. Go ahead, Marc.
HILL: I'm not like - like it's a tea party. I'm saying the guy had been shot. It wasn't just then it was something and popping. He had been shot and they "F" your breath. Police have to be held to a higher standard. This is unacceptable and inhumane.
HOWE: Oh, come on. HILL: It's disgusting.
BALDWIN: All right, Harry Howe, Bernie Kerik, Marc Lemont Hill and Mel Robbins, I appreciate the discussion. I really, really do.
HOWE (?): Thank you.
BALDWIN: Coming up, the road to the White House, it's getting started to get crowded. Hillary Clinton, surprise, officially running. So is Marco Rubio and the jabs are already being thrown. We will get into all of that next. You're watching CNN.
[22:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: All of no one surprised when Hillary Clinton announced this weekend that she's indeed running for president. But some people may have been surprised to see her at, of all places today, Chipotle. Oh, yes, welcome to Campaign 2016. And now you've seen that Marco Rubio throwing his hat in the ring. Let's go to our CNN chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash who is live in Miami Tonight with of all of this.
All right. Dana, let's first just begin with Marco Rubio. We've talked about the video, before the video and now finally, you know, the announcement. You were in the room, what was it like tonight?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, there was a lot of energy for him. These are his core supporters. But I have to say, you and I were talking before speech about what an eloquent order he is, and he certainly ended up that way, but as he started, he looked pretty nervous or maybe a little bit even uncomfortable, sort of, "Oh my goodness, am I actually doing this sort of feeling."
But when he got into it, his message was very clear, and it was a generational one that he is the candidate of tomorrow, and there are others who are the candidate of yesterday, particularly his Democratic opponent, if he gets the Republican nomination. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Just yesterday, a leader from yesterday...
... began a campaign for president by promising to take us back to yesterday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: That was really the theme throughout, Brooke, talking about his age, basically trying to turn his inexperience relative to the older candidates and youth, on its head, as a plus. We'll see if that works out in the long-term though.
BALDWIN: Well, they tried to slam the been (ph) Senator Obama for it, and now here you have all the freshmen GOPs, same -- same situation. What about - I mean, what a fascinating story that's get - the that's going to happen here in Florida because you have Marco Rubio, assuming you have Jeb Bush. They're actually very close. Bush, a mentor of - of Senator Rubio's. So, great both of them with the Hispanic vote. How will they...
BALDWIN: ... manage that line there?
BASH: It's not going to be easy to manage. They're doing the best that they can now. Really it seems to be a harder line for their friends and supporters here in Florida to - to manage than - than them themselves. But the interesting dynamic in Florida, especially is the way they appeal to Latino voters.
Obviously, Marco Rubio who spoke some Spanish here, he is of Cuban descent. He speaks fluent Spanish, and so does Jeb Bush. He's a blue blood, but he's married to a Mexican-American. They speak Spanish at home. So, they know the language. He also understands the Latino culture. And in Florida that matters big time. Both of them did very well in general election campaign statewide against Democrats with the Hispanic vote.
So, it's going to be very interesting to see how it plays out if and when the two of them do go head to head here in Florida, which is a very important state that could determine whether or not one or the other gets the Republican nomination, ultimately.
BALDWIN: Yes. I mentioned Hillary Clinton at Chipotle. We'll get to that. For now, Dana Bash in Miami. Dana, thank you.
Coming up, road trip. She's in the heartland and tweeting up a storm. So is this a new Hillary Clinton?
[22:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: Hillary Clinton is taking her brand new presidential campaign on the road. First stop, Iowa. But how will the new Hillary play in the heartland?
Joining me, Ana Navarro, a Republican strategist who is a supporter of Jeb Bush and adviser to other Republican candidates and a friend of Marco Rubio. I've got Lanny Davis, special counsel to President Bill Clinton and Connie Mack, the former congressman from Florida and a supporter of Jeb Bush.
Welcome to all of you this evening and first up, let's have a little fun. Shall we? SNL (ph) campaign 2016 and Hillary Clinton, roll it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, since we're announcing your candidacy via social media, we thought it would be fun if you actually filmed the video yourself on your own phone. That way it seems more personal and intimate. KATE MCKINNON, HILLARY CLINTON IMPERSONATOR: A-aha-aha. Personal and
intimate. Yes. I better take off this jacket then.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's much better. Now, I want to do some vocal warm-ups and then we'll get started.
MCKINNON: OK, I'd love to. Hillary is a granny with a twinkle in her eye.
Hillary is a granny and she makes an apple pie. First female president, first female president, me, me, me, me, me, me, me!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, great Mrs. Clinton. OK. Now, hold up your phone and you can just look natural.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And maybe you want to soften a little. OK, a little more.
OK. Maybe a lot more. Great! Great! OK and action.
MCKINNON: Citizens, you will elect me, I will be your leader.
DARRELL HAMMOND, BILL CLINTON IMPERSONATOR: This election is about you.
HAMMOND: I don't want to hog your limelight. I'm leaving. Look at me go.
HAMMOND: Bye. I'm gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: I mean, how funny is this? I've got the giggles and I've seen this now a few times. Congressman Mack, we'll just begin with you. I mean, listen, the world knows the Clintons, we've known the Clintons for quite some time. There's that version of Hillary Clinton, now apparently eating at Chipotle, She's in Iowa, she's rolling up this time not in a big jet but in a van, driving all the way from New York.
How congressman does Hillary Clinton reintroduce herself to America?
CONNIE MACK, FORMER UNITED STATES CONGRESSMAN: Well, unfortunately, I think you're asking the wrong person.
[22:49:51] MACK: But I do think that - I do think that though, that what she's doing is -- is interesting and it's unique, it's different. If you notice, all the candidates are sort of looking for a different way to roll out their campaigns. I think Hillary Clinton knows that last time around, she seemed too distant from the people. And so she wants to engage the people in a different way. But at the end of the day, all of these things aren't as important as where they stand on the issues, what their vision for the future is. What's really what's going to be at stake, but at the beginning here, it obviously provides "Saturday Night Live" and others some comic relief.
BALDWIN: Well we'll wait, because there will be many others that will help provide us some definite comic relief in the months to come.
MACK: Oh, no, this was - this wasn't a shot at her. This is -- I'm just saying that, you know...
BALDWIN: I hear you, I hear you. Lanny, did you...
MACK: There -- there's a lot of fun going on.
BALDWIN: I know and this is - this is the best part of watching "SNL." But Lanny, to you, long-time adviser to the Clintons, I understand you actually met Hillary Clinton back in 1969 in line to register for classes at Yale Law. So you go back a little ways. What is her number obstacle?
LANNY DAVIS, SPECIAL COUNSEL TO PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON: Well, first of all, the real Hillary Clinton would watch that " Saturday Night Live" and laugh.
BALDWIN: She was.
DAVIS: And the Hillary Clinton that I remember from law school the first thing she asked me standing in line, I was a senior, she was a freshman. It's not what courses are difficult and how do you study it at Yale Law School, but where do you go for the nearest legal services clinic? And I looked at her, is that really what you're thinking of doing at your first day at Yale Law School and she said, "Yes, that's what I want to do." She's not changed since then and she's got a great sense of humor and my friend, Connie Mack, and I think he's supporting a very good man named Jeb Bush.
DAVIS: If those two end up being the nominees, America will be proud either way.
BALDWIN: I think we've heard of the Clintons and the Bushes before. Ana Navarro, to you, you know this Bush very well. And I was talking to Dana Bash a moment ago because I think it's going to be interesting to watch with Marco Rubio and presumably Jeb Bush. They have this close relationship and they both come from Florida, and you know the whole narrative. I understand you -- they were on a plane recently. They were sitting side by side, both writing at the same time, speeches?
ANA NAVARRO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I don't think Jeb was writing a speech. I think Marco was working on this speech and, you know, Brooke, I'm not sure this isn't going to be more entertaining to watch from New York than it is when you are actually in the 305 and caught in between two friends who see themselves running. This is, you know, I think both of them right now are starting by saying that they're not running against each other. That they are running on their agenda and their vision.
Let's see how long that can be kept up. You know, it gets awkward at times. But these are two guys who have a genuine friendship, longstanding friendship. Jeb was Marco's mentor and there's, you know, great affection between the two of them. I've witnessed it for years, for decades. I think Connie has too as he can tell you. So, it's going to be interesting to see how it develops, and as a friend of both of them, I do hope that it can stay clean and it can stay about issues, agenda, vision, as we go along.
BALDWIN: OK, Ana Navarro, Lanny Davis, Congressman Connie Mack, thank you all very, very much.
LANNY DAVIS (?): Thank you.
BALDWIN: We'll be right back.
CONNIE MACK (?): Thank you.
[22:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: This week's CNN hero traded in her life in New Jersey for one in the shadow of the Himalayas. Maggie Doyne built a home and then a school and now at age 28, she's a full-time mom for nearly 30 kids -- 50 kids forgive me, 50, and educates hundreds more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAGGIE DOYNE, CNN HERO: Most 28-year-old girls my age have a very different reality. A lot of engagements and, you know, first babies. I mean, I took a very different path. After high school, I decided to travel around the world with my backpack. In Nepal for the first time, I really saw the effects of civil war and children and women suffering, and it changed me.
There was one little girl, she was standing in a heap of garbage, and she said, "Namaste, didi" that means hello sister. That was the beginning.
I called up my parents and I asked them to wire me over my $5,000 of babysitting money.
Time to get up. Morning.
UNIDENTIFIED KID: Good morning.
DOYNE: We started with a home and then we built a school.
UNIDENTIFIED KIDS: (SPOKEN IN DIFFERENT LANGUAGE).
DOYNE: We select children who, without us, would not be able to go to school. A lot of them are begging on the streets.
You got it.
We have created one (ph) of the top performing schools in the entire region for 350 children and 50 of those kids live in our home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPOKEN IN DIFFERENT LANGUAGE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPOKEN IN DIFFERENT LANGUAGE).
DOYNE: Our first priority is to keep a child with their family. And then in the severe case of a child who really has nobody, they come in to live in our home.
When you walk in the front gate of Kopila Valley, you don't see suffering. You see healthy, laughing, thriving kids.
UNIDENTIFIED KIDS: Welcome to Kopila valley!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Oh, you can nominate a hero. We hope you do. Just go to cnnheroes.com. And that's it for me tonight. Thank you so much for watching. I'm Brooke Baldwin. I'll be back in the chair this time tomorrow. Hope to see you then. In the meantime, AC360 starts right now.
ANDERSON COOPER: AC360 ANCHORMAN: Good evening. We begin tonight with breaking news. Felony charges in another deadly shooting involving a law enforcement officer and an African-American suspect. This time, Tulsa Oklahoma, it happened during a sting operation by the Tulsa county Sheriff's (ph) Department earlier this month.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) [22:59:57] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible). Roll on your stomach.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't fight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Male (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ouch (BEEP). Ouch (BEEP). Stop it. He's out (ph). Out there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop right here (ph).