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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Baltimore Police: 15 Officers Injured In Rioting; Mayor: We Will be Holding Rioters Accountable; Baltimore Under State Of Emergency. Aired 9-10:00p ET.
Aired April 27, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BRIG. GEN. LINDA SINGH, MARYLAND NATIONAL GUARD: ... and just to add if you really want to get into this specific SUV vehicles, we are going to coming in with up armored humvee, and mainly because I want to make sure that our folks are being protected as well as some pieces of larger equipment that will allow us to move forces when we need to.
And, we will be carrying our weapons, and so -- because if my folks need to be able to protect themselves they have the ability to do that. But that's only in the event that they need to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible) Baltimore area, is that what you're talking about, the National Guard to secure?
SINGH: So I'm not going to talk about exactly where we're going to secure, it will be up to where the state police tells us we need to move. The goal is, once we have those areas secured by police, we will come in and provide the release -- the relief for them, so that they can then move on and secure other areas.
So we will have up to 5,000 that can be called up. It will be up to the state police and the governor to tell us what exactly how many they need and at what point in time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... state police than any other (inaudible). How many law enforcement officers are out in the streets right at this hour, national guards?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: General number I would say around 1,500. You know and again, we are relaying on -- as the city has, you know, our partners in all of this. You know the law enforcement they can bring in. They already have the rest of the authority and stuff like that in the State of Maryland to bring in the support things.
But certainly we're looking to bring in more. I don't have a specific number for you right now. I'd say more than possibly need, I'd like to add. But we're bringing as many as we possibly can.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement officers at Baltimore?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now.
GOV. LARRY HOGAN, (R) BALTIMORE: Anybody else? Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Speak to -- I mean seeing what has been going around the country obviously, there's a speculation (inaudible) announcing what's happening in Baltimore in your own state, really asking this now (ph) hitting closer to home.
HOGAN: Well, it's obviously very disappointing to us Marylanders and people who love the City of Baltimore. We -- what started out as peaceful protest with people expressing genuine concern about an incident that took place and was a peaceful incident for six hours or so. I would say 95 percent of the people involved we're conducting them selves in a very peaceful manner.
It was well under control, we had a lot of outside agitators coming from around the country and we had some rogue gangs and young people that we're looking to cause problems. It's totally separate I think from some of people who we're peacefully demonstrating the other day. It's unfortunate.
I had a long discussion with the President about this, this evening. He supports our actions 100 percent. We talked about the fact that we got to find -- everybody believes we need to get to the answers and resolve this situation, the concern everybody has about what exactly happen in the Freddie Gray incident.
That's one whole situation. This is an entirely different situation. This is lawless gangs of thugs roaming the streets causing damage to property and injuring innocent people, and we're not going to tolerate that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are these things you see whether it online or T.V. today (ph) some visual thing that you saw in the City of Baltimore that's just really disturbing.
HOGAN: Well, I mean all of it was disturbing. It's hard to say any one thing. But when you see -- when the law enforcement officers we're hurt and injured, when police cars we're on fire, when buildings we're being set ablaze it was -- it was very disturbing and, you know, we called everybody to gather in advance of the city requesting. So we we're fully ready to engage immediately.
Well, we have no way of predicting, I can tell you this. We're going to put every available asset and as much manpower as it possibly takes to get this under control as quickly as we possibly can. And we're going to maintain the state of emergency until it's put to rest.
He thanked me for the action. Said he thought we we're doing the right thing. He said I assume that you and your team will be exercising due restraint, I assure them that we we're. The last thing we want to do is escalate the violence, but I also assure them that weren't going to standby and allow our City of Baltimore to be taken over by thugs.
And he said that the justice department was going to be -- the new Attorney General will be coming into the Baltimore that we we're going to sit down and work together to try to see if we can bring calm to the community and financiers in the case of Freddie Gray. But that was a separate situation, that he felt we absolutely knew to get (ph) control of our streets and he endorsed the action that we're taken tonight.
[21:05:12] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you say when the Attorney General and possibly the President might be coming.
HOGAN: I don't know when, he didn't say when. All right any other last questions?
I don't believe I do know for sure but it's probably 1968.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In light of that question, is this unprecedented and if not, how does it compare to the writing (ph) in the '60s?
HOGAN: Well it's where near as bad as that at this point. We want to make sure that it doesn't get to that point. You know its -- certainly the worst thing I've seen since I've been governor which is only 90 days.
Any other questions? Thank you very much.
ANDERSON COPPER, A360 HOST: You've just been hearing from the governor. As you've heard the National Guard is going to be sent into Baltimore, the head of the National Guard speaking saying this is obviously not martial law. That they are there in support of the police department but that they will be in the streets on patrol.
That's different than when a National Guard was called into Ferguson. They we're held back in the areas really out of line of sight of many of what -- in Ferguson protesters. Just after 9:00 P.M. a little bit -- almost 10:00 after 9:00 in Baltimore. As you sundown has not brought an end to the looting and writing in parts of the city.
What you're looking at there now, where you're told is a massive fire in a multistory newly constructed building in East Baltimore. There are some reports that it's a new senior center that have been built. We are still trying to find out exactly which building the fire is in. But we're told that it's at the corner of Chester and Gay Street, a multistory building on fire.
Miguel Marquez is heading there right now. I do want to go -- while we continue to watch that, I want to check in with Joe Johns. Joe, where are you in relation to that fire? I'm not even sure if you can see that fire from where you are if you know where it is.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, I do not know where it is. I know of it, we've gotten some text about it and I believe I can hear some fire engines far in the distance but I'm not sure exactly where it is from us...
COPPER: OK, so we're looking now...
MARQUEZ: ... from West North street...
COPPER: And the important thing about that is that, that just gives our viewers the sense that these are incidents happening not all just in the same geographic location, these are incidents happening in different parts now of Baltimore.
Joe, before we went to the Governor, we saw a man named -- I believe is Robert Valentines who stood between police and basically was tying to get young people who are taunting the police to go home. And one of the things he said is about those young people who said, they do not respect this young man's death, taking about Freddie Grey.
COPPER: It seems as if those young people have moved off. What's the scene now?
MARQUEZ: Yeah. That's exactly right. I mean, this man single- handedly stood down a group of kids who we're coming over to taunt the police and they got tired of it and, you know, yelled a few expletives if you will and walked (ph) off.
So, the street here where we are is relatively quite and peaceful now, they rolled up the fire hoses. I think it's important to say, the police stay here -- it's not clear how long they're going to stay here. But, their whole objective was to hold the crowd away while the fire department in the distance could continue and finish its work. And it looks like the department has just about done that.
But, I mean this is all sort of a symbol of how much Baltimore is going to have to do. This city has been trying to claw its way back. There are many neighborhoods in the west side that are bombed (ph) out like the one we're in. And, the city has been working so hard to try to get its image back.
And this is not good for that obviously Anderson. It's too bad. And the police department has a tremendous, tremendous trust problem. Let's not forgive the criminality in the looting that's been going on. But, when the dust settles, this police department has a real trust problem with the community and they're going to have to deal with that because they haven't dealt with it quite yet. And that's something to talk about after things quite down Anderson.
COPPER: Yeah. And they are certainly not quieting down. That had been the hope of perhaps that some of this would -- people would just get tired of this.
I'm joined by Mark Puente of "The Baltimore Sun". Mark, can you tell me where you are right now?
MARK PUENTE, THE BALTIMORE SUN: Yeah, I'm at the corner of North Chester Lanvale, East Baltimore across the Southern Baptist Church. The church was building a new senior center and right now that new senior center is off in full of flame. Firefighters are standing there for (inaudible).
COOPER: And Mark, we're seeing those images that you are speaking about, so this was a new -- brand new senior center that have been build by a church?
PUENTE: Yeah, the Southern Baptist Church, after Pastor Dante Hickman Sr., the parishioners in which he was showed up, a lot of strong emotion, they're crying. Wondering who would do this to their church, they burned the church (inaudible).
It appears that's a new construction, a total loss before a loss, the entire block (ph) burned.
COOPER: Mark, do you have a sense of just, you know, for our viewers who are watching this around the country and around the world, it's hard to get a sense of how many spots there are where a police have been deployed where there has been trouble.
Do you have a sense of it about how many active situations are going on right now?
PUENTE: Well, a colleague and I raced over here from downtown. And we've asked many people (ph) and many corner (ph). I have ever seen on T.V. or reports from my colleagues at Sun but it appears all over the city we have a (inaudible) close officers and riot here being escorted in a motor (inaudible) clearly the city is falling down.
COOPER: And in terms of the response right now at that massive fire, we see a number of fire vehicles, we do see water being poured on it but it looks like it is still out of control?
PUENTE: It looks like so not even going over near. They just a stand at that (inaudible) the sky part in that way but I can't (inaudible) as you're seeking your shot holding hope.
COOPER: And are there...
PUENTE: Yes, there is (inaudible) way here.
COOPER: Are there still young people in that area or people in that area who have been -- I mean, is this an area that has seen looting earlier in the day, are there still people on the streets there or is it now pretty much just police firefighters and as you said parishioners?
PUENTE: No, the crowds (inaudible) was mostly adults with their cellphones. A lot of people obviously go to this church, (inaudible).
COOPER: Mark, the Mayor made a point of saying that at 9:00 P.M. there is already a curfew in place because it's a school night for people under the age of 13 or over the age of 14, the curfew is 10:00 P.M. Do you believe that that's going to have any impacts? I mean, has it already had any impact? PUENTE: Like I said Anderson, over here there was still people on the street. I can't speak when they're going to go home or when they're going to, you know, get off the streets. But the crowd is still growing here. So (inaudible) give here just to everyone.
COOPER: Mark Puente, I appreciate you're taking the time to talk to us. Mark from "The Baltimore Sun", the paper of record in the City of Baltimore.
While we continue to watch these images from the corner of Chester and Gay street, this according to Mark Puente, a new senior center that had been build by the Baptist Church on that -- in that neighborhood with a multi-storey newly constructed building in East Baltimore, a massive blaze and as Mark said, there are a lot of parishioners, the pastor is on his way a lot of parishioners there who have been crying saying, "Why would anybody do this to our church?"
And we have heard those questions being asked in a lot of different places in Baltimore tonight. People near the CVS that was looted and burned saying this was a new building. This was a sign of improvement for the community.
We saw that also the bodega type story in the corner being looted as well as check cashing store, a number of businesses being put up in flames or simply being broken into and robbed.
I want to bring in -- while we continue to watch these images and continue to check in with our correspondents, I also want to bring in, our legal analyst, Sunny Hostin and Jeffrey Toobin, also a former NYPD, detective Harry Houck.
Harry, just from a policing stand point again, as we continue to see this massive fire and the burning still out of control in the city of Baltimore.
We now, know the National Guard are going to be coming in there not on the streets at this point. It seems like the state police are going to be running this operation more so. We just heard from Governor then the City of Baltimore, then the Mayor, the Governor.
Clearly kind of, I'm not sure how to characterize his feeling toward the Mayor of Baltimore but saying that he was glad that she finally did call him for help and to declare a state of emergency which has been triggered. He said it took him 30 seconds after she finally requested it for him to bring it in.
He had clearly softening it but being critical of the response by the mayor. In terms of the police in response, what have you been watching for the last four hours?
HARRY HOUCK, RETIRED NYPD. DETECTIVE: Well, I'll tell you, I was really been seeing you much. I've been watching this whole day today and you know, this afternoon was the time to meet this in a bud (ph) before it got dark.
[21:15:11]It appears like the police department's responses have been pretty pathetic all day. And I'm not blaming the police department. You know, the mayor has been very acting pathetic toward this and apathetic toward this, I'm sorry, right? And actually holding the police back.
When you got police officers in a riot situation like this who keeps on going forward getting things thrown at them, going forward and coming back, back and forth for the rioters not sending out a arrest teams to sending out a message to this youths out there say, listen, hey we can get away with this today. No problem.
COOPER: That was a strategy which in Ferguson, you know, day two or three began to evolve after the initial criticism that place reaction, it did seem like they kind of learn from there -- on being on the ground in that situation and they would while they would hold line, they would send that a team arrest an individual or two individuals and then come back to the lawn trying to isolate the people who are actually breaking the law.
HAWK: Yeah, this too much of these so I think with a 20 or some arrests today with the last count...
COOPER: And so you're saying you didn't see that enough.
HAWK: No, I didn't see enough for that at all. I've seen police -- we got 15 police officers that are hurt here. OK?
There should be probably 60, 70, 80 arrests by now.
COOPER: Do you believe they have enough resources on the ground or is it a question of just how they've been deployed?
HAWK: It doesn't look like that at all because you, we're seeing what's going on in Baltimore right now just by the cameras that we have there, right?
What's going on the rest to these areas? Nobody saw it and then going on near the senior center here. All right? And all of the sudden now, we're going to that section there.
So, I think that the police officers going to have the resources that required to be able to handle this situation and then should had at least a 1,000 police officers come from the surrounding towns and yesterday is a result to this.
You know, last week when we were talking about this Anderson, I predicted something like was going to happen.
COOPER: You were saying where's the riot here? Where's the (inaudible)?
HAWK: Yeah, exactly.
COOPER: Sunny Hostin, you worked in the city of Baltimore. I should also point out you're a friend of the mayor, what do you make of what you have seen and what you're seeing right now? SUNNY HOUSTON, FMR. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: You know, I'm saddened by what I'm seeing clearly. I think everyone is saddened. But I think that criticize the mayor, I think to criticize the police chief, I don't think that there is a place for that right now. I mean everyone can sort of, you know, after the fact quarterback but the bottom line is these are very fluid situations. Harry knows that.
Just this weekend, no one was talking about Baltimore. Everyone was talking, you know, covering other new stories because this wasn't what was going on in Baltimore at that time.
COOPER: Well, there was violence in Baltimore on Saturday.
HOUSTON: Not of -- I think we can all agree not of this magnitude...
HOUSTON: ... clearly. So it's a fluid situation and people are responding to that fluidity.
I think that certainly, you know, these are criminal actions. I think that's clear, no one is saying that looting is appropriate or rioting is appropriate but the bottom line is you know, I think Martin Luther King said it well, that "rioting is the language of the unheard" and let's remember that this is stemming from yes, what started out as peaceful protest but this is stemming from the death of a 25-year-old man. People involved more clearly...
HAWK: Do you think that (inaudible) are doing this?
HOUSTON: I don't think name calling at this point is helpful Harry. But I do think...
HAWK: ... but the city officials have called them, even the mayor has calmed them thugs.
HOUSTON: ... and I don't think that that's helpful at this point.
HAWK: And that's the problem. That's why we're not controlling this riot. Last night, the police line that was a perpetrator who ramped to the police line with the garbage can that was on fire threw at the police officers and no arrest team went out after this guy.
COOPER: I got to do -- I mean I do have to bring this up and the mayor has been critical of the media for pointing this out, but she did say over the weekend is talking about the protest, it's a very -- and the violence that's also was occurring over the weekend.
She said, it's a very delicate balancing act because while we try to make sure that they were protected from the cars and the other things that were going on talking about protesters, we also gave those wish to destroy base (ph) to do that as well.
I want to talk about that in a moment but I also want to bring in Mary Koch, an attorney for the Gray family. Ms. Koch, this rioting on the day of Freddie Gray's funeral, a gentlemen we just interviewed name Robert Valentine, member of the community who was trying to stop some of these youths from a taunting police said, of the youths, they do not respect this young man's death for this to happen on the day of the funeral, what is your reaction, the family's reaction?
MARY KOCH, GRAY'S FAMILY ATTORNEY: I think that I have to agree a 1,000 percent. The family in one of the few times that they spoke publicly with the family specifically ask for that there'll be no protest on the day that they lay their son, their brother to rest. And that not only we're there -- I can't really call these protest but we have this outbreak of violence that is completely detracted from Freddie's death.
And the positive things and the hope for positive change that was going to come out of that investigation, and that's just the centigrade into just people looking at Baltimore City and thinking that, you know, the city is a city of violence and that we can't control that. We can't control our emotions.
[21:20:12] COOPER: What is your message then to anyone who maybe listening, maybe who has a child out there or who may be thinking about going out on the streets tonight? What is your message to them?
KOCH: My message to them is the message of Freddie Gray's family which is that they hope for only peaceful demonstration, that they remember Freddie, that they honor Freddie Gray's memory by peacefully demonstrating and not participating in acts of violence. And that we push to have answers to why Freddie died while in police custody.
COOPER: Mary, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you very much.
Jeff Toobin is also joining us.
Jeff, I read that quote earlier from the Mayor and she received a lot of criticism particularly for saying that we also gave those who wish to destroy space to do that -- which to destroy space to do that as well. Now, she is then subsequently her spokesman has walked that back (ph) saying she wasn't saying that they were intentionally giving space to people who wanted to destroy things but that it was an unfortunate byproduct of the way that they were dealing with protest.
Nevertheless, what do you make of what you've seen?
JEFF TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think, I am more concerned about the Mayor's deeds than her words but it strikes me that this is the moment to say this has been an extraordinarily incompetent response by the police and by the City of Baltimore.
Hour after hour passed with looting going on in the completely uncontrolled way with no police presence at all, incredible danger to the law-abiding citizens of Baltimore. And the disappearance of the police for hours this afternoon is something that is going to hunt this city for decades.
And, I just think the incompetence display in the City of Baltimore today whether it's the Mayor's fault or the police chief's fault or both of their fault, the buck has to stop somewhere and, obviously, primary responsibility goes to the rioters and the looters.
There are no protesters out there. The protest is an honorable thing. Looting and criminality is not. And the city of Baltimore really disgraced itself to that.
COOPER: Jeff, why not -- and I'm getting a lot of tweets on this, is there any legal reason why not to had a curfew tonight? I mean, there are a lot of people saying, I don't understand why there is a curfew starting tomorrow at 10:00 P.M.
Mayor may point it out, well there's already a juvenile curfew that's already been in place because these are school nights and this is something that's a long-standing in -- or at least been around for a while in the City of Baltimore.
Is there reason why they couldn't just say a curfew tonight?
TOOBIN: Beats the heck out of me, so that same question occurred to me. It was a very passive, weirdly disconnected response by the Mayor at the press conference. She seemed like a spectator in her own city, and very, very late in the day to appear when the city was falling apart. I just think it was a shocking display of incompetence by the City of Baltimore today.
COOPER: I got a -- I mean I also found it interesting, Jeff Toobin, that the head of the city council chose that moment to attack the media for showing these images as if that's the problem. I mean look, there are times when the presence of cameras may influence something negatively and I'm a big believer that those cameras should leave in those times but, I don't think any of these was caused by cameras shooting things from blocks away.
You know, this wasn't cause -- this was in the people, you know, acting in front of a camera. This was people looting stores causing violence.
TOOBIN: Yeah. We're in the news business here. And when one of the major cities of America is on fire and what people are looting hour after hour without any interference by the police, that's news -- that was appropriate to cover, and, you know, blaming the news media is the last refuge of people who don't want to face reality.
COOPER: And by the way, I should also point out that they were then very quick to say, oh, by the way, we're going to use all these images in the days ahead to try to identify who the perpetrators was. So, they seem to be wanting to have it both ways.
Jeff, I want to go to Miguel Marquez who is by now that massive fire. Miguel, how far is this from the area we last saw you in by the police station and also what do you seeing now?
MARQUEZ: It is about two any half miles from there. It is a long way. It's a short distance to drive but it is a long way in terms of the slide that you passed.
We saw a Rite Aid that had been looted along the way. We saw people on the streets all the way down. Clearly, it is moving down into Downtown, Baltimore.
This was a new construction, old folk's home. And you can see the beautiful buildings of Baltimore behind it. And you can see just the other devastation here at this building and it's a sight to see.
[21:25:13] I have Commissioner Booker here who has 00:14 the -- are you with the city, sir?
ERIC BOOKER, ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT: I am with the city -- Baltimore City's Code Enforcement and also the President of this Community Association.
MARQUEZ: And tell me what this facility was and what do you know -- what happened here?
BOOKER: This right here was the new construction of the Maryhaven (ph) Center. We've come a long hard road to get to this point, and it's very disappointing to see this happen to this building.
We are so close, so close and now we got an opportunity to start all over again.
MARQUEZ: How frustrating is it to see this?
BOOKER: It is very frustrating. You don't know what we've gone through working with the church to come to a place where we would be at this location. And for it to get this far, advance in this construction, and tonight, see it burn to the ground. Everything except the brick and mortar, it is painful.
MARQUEZ: Do you know how this started?
BOOKER: We don't know how this started. We don't but our concern has been is the actual embers the actual embers that have been floating over to these other building some of which are also vacant.
MARQUEZ: And what is this particular neighborhood like?
BOOKER: This neighborhood, we have a lot of vacancy in this neighborhood but this neighborhood was on a rebound. As you can right here, this building right here, the American Brewery is the (inaudible) building. It was vacant all of my childhood until...
MARQUEZ: It's beautiful building here.
BOOKER: ... just beautiful brewery, a former brewery. This building was vacant my whole childhood, and we brought that back to life and we got to protect that. We can't let anything happen to that building.
I'm just so sad that this has happened here.
MARQUEZ: Clearly, the assumption is that, it is related to the violence that is happening across the city tonight. What is happening to your Baltimore?
BOOKER: That is the assumption and we were watching it move west and down towards downtown, and there's a possibility, this is just to spin off from what was happening in West Baltimore. But we've got to get Baltimore City back.
We would so much -- it made so much progress in coming back to a vibrant neighborhood and this is just painful.
MARQUEZ: We are steps from Downtown at this point. Have you heard of anything else happening further Downtown?
BOOKER: No, I haven't. We are about one point -- well, one any half miles from Downtown. I haven't heard anything else from Downtown.
MARQUEZ: Yeah. I know that they canceled -- suspended play of the game tonight. I don't know that it ever got going. There is a massive effort across the city as we left to the area up in the Gilmore Homes. That's the area where Freddie Gray was arrested, one block from where he was arrested.
There was a car on fire. There were police lines up on North Avenue just along the way there. And there were large bands -- 300, these individuals who are trying to get people back into control, roaming the streets and trying to bring them back into control. But as you can see tonight, the devastation is not being (inaudible) just in western -- in West Baltimore but in East Baltimore as well moving toward Downtown. This is just a devastating fire. Anderson.
COOPER: And Miguel, in the location you're at, Mark Puente, we are talking to him and he's from the "Baltimore Sun" and we have talked to him a short time ago. He is now tweeting out some pictures of worshippers praying near the fire, standing in the circle, praying. Also some pictures of police with shotguns out and he says, about 10 fire companies are fighting the fire where police with shotguns are standing guard.
Do you see a heavy police presence in that location?
MARQUEZ: We don't see a heavy police presence in this location. I think, their concern -- the wind is blowing sort of southerly from where we are. And I think, the concern is that the embers from all of these new construction. It was all just wood essentially, and the embers of this new construction will hit other buildings that are nearby, and that's likely where a larger police presence is because as we've seen in other places, if there are no police that the crimes of opportunity will occur.
We were in -- on one block as soon as a large police presence left within 10 minutes that the neighborhood was teeming with people going into the backside of businesses there just looting everything that they could, carrying it off. Literally, within 20 minutes, there were dozens and dozens of people there.
COOPER: Miguel, I should also just tell you, the city has announced that all schools will be close tomorrow. Obviously, they are concern for the safety of students going to and from the school but also from the law enforcement standpoint. It also means that you then have a lot of young people who are home
during the day or -- able to go out on the streets during the day and that causes a whole other set of concerns, of course, and among -- for some of those individuals.
That National Guards saying they are going to be deployed. The Governor called them in after a state of emergency was declared, after the Mayor and his words finally called the Governor and says after about 30 seconds of finally getting that call, he declared the state of emergency.
[21:30:02] The National Guards says they will be on patrol on the streets. So, saying that they actually going to have a visible presence on the streets of the city of Baltimore when the National Guard were called in Ferguson.
We should point out there was no visible presence really of the national guard on the streets. No patrols, we saw National Guard guarding a command center but that was really out of sight for many of the protesters.
And Miguel, we're just trying to get a sense now of this how many spots of trouble they are in Baltimore right now obviously the fire location where your at, how many kind of areas did you drive through, we're looking at a map now we're you got to sense of all the different locations -- you see where the mall was looted, the check cashing store the CVS.
Now you get a sense from that map, look how far the right the senior center is in via Chester and in Gay Streets, and then you also see where Miguel was before the Western District Police Station. So Miguel there clearly a large number of areas, also Miguel I should tell you we're looking at live pictures of people now running through the streets these are helicopters shots trying to get a sense the exact location of this but there still some traffic on the streets but no police presence at least in this area.
It does look like there's a perhaps a police van trying a police -- helicopter is shining a spotlight on individuals it's not clear exactly what's going on in that location.
Miguel one of the things that we saw at the mall and I'm wondering if you have seen this with your own eyes it does seem like some -- this isn't just people on foot looting that there are people in cars going to locations jumping out of those cars looting and then getting back in their vehicles.
MARQUEZ: It happens in an instant. As soon as the police leave the area the looters come in and take over and they have their way with whatever they want. We are about two and a half miles from North Avenue where the worst of the worst of the CVS happened today, about another mile a half down in the ways is downtown Baltimore, there we're concerns about cannon yards because they went after police there on Saturday and they had to suspend the game for a bit today.
The helicopter that your talking about the people are running it maybe this one right here because we are right near this building and there are lot of very angry people in the streets here. Police trying to keep control of this area and not allow what has happened in other parts of the city to happen here as well which is, you know, as soon as police turn their backs the firefighters aren't able to do their jobs.
And you can see up here actually, it looks like firefighters are -- that looks like a garage that was right next door to this and they're try to get into that garage and keep this fire from spreading a very, very hot very big fire lots of embers, it's a little bit windy tonight so I think the concern -- the big concern is that those embers are going to move towards other buildings and light other parts of Baltimore on fire. An extraordinarily tense situation in the city, Anderson.
COOPER: And Miguel on the right-hand side of your screen our viewers are seeing police vehicles in on a street that we had just previously seen. A number of individuals who running down in the opposite direction. It also looks like there's number of civilian vehicles as well still moving on some of the streets.
It's not clear who would be driving around at a time like this in the city of Baltimore, clearly the police would want people to know to try to stay off the streets as much as possible though there is no curfew in affect for adults. They say there's still curfew in affect for juveniles and soon to be -- at least under the age of 13, over the age of 14 to 18 that starts in about 30 minutes 30 minutes or so.
Miguel -- Baltimore police had just tweeted and I'm reading this out as I get it that groups of violent criminals are continuing to throw rocks and bricks and other items at police officers. They haven't give a specific location but they're saying that in general that there are still groups been individual throwing rocks and bricks, we also saw bottles being thrown earlier.
Miguel you said a short tome ago that there are number of angry people on the streets in the area where you're at, earlier when we talk to a (inaudible) from Baltimore saying he was seeing mostly people who were prisoners who were upset of what was happening, the fire are you saying there people are angry about the fire or people angry at police here?
MARQUEZ: They are angry that they have seen a greater response from police and fire tonight they're angry that this is happening in their own neighborhood, they are angry that this transitional neighborhood closer to sort of the East Baltimore and so it was beginning to turn around and buildings like this.
[21:05:04] That were going to bring, you know, a new a new vibrancy to the neighborhood are now completely gone and they have to start from square one again. And now they're just fighting to save the rest of the neighborhood, which could go up as well if these -- if the embers here take off.
And, the problem is, is that police aren't protecting a lot of the areas where firefighters want to work and that is incredibly dangerous for firefighters. We saw it up at North Avenue about two and a half miles north of here where firefighters at Northern Pennsylvania Avenue couldn't get in there to fight the fires there cars on fires were up for hours. The CVS was burning for a half hour before the firefighters could get in there.
Once they did protesters we're throwing stuff at them. Once they hook up hoses, shocking on live national television they walk up and stub the hoses with knives making it impossible for the firefighters to do their jobs. The police did have to move in closer to just protect the hoses. That's the sort of stuff that's happening.
And the fear is right now, is that this is been lit (ph) to pull resources away from other places of the city where other things maybe going on. They went after a mall downtown this weekend, they went after several businesses downtown as well and we haven't seen that yet tonight, but I tell on the way down here from north avenue and Pennsylvania there were (inaudible) and there were several locations that clearly had had trouble tonight.
The rioting (ph) I will say they did have a riot at least outside protecting this, that nobody could get back into it. This is just -- it's everywhere and police are having a hard time getting a whole of it, it is a little surprising that the mayor has not called for a complete, you know, having everybody inside tonight's and a curfew for everybody and not just for juveniles, Anderson?
COOPER: Miguel we'll continue checking with you. Joining me out is Rev. Jamal Bryant of the Empowerment Temple Church and president of the Empowerment Movement a collision of African-American clergy.
Reverent I appreciate being with you under these very difficult circumstances. What is your message tonight to those young people to anybody who may consider -- be considering going out on the street or may currently be out on the street?
REV. JAMAL BRYANT, PRESIDENT, EMPOWERMENT MOVEMENT: That anybody who's going out tonight is not reflect in any way of the Freddie Gray legacy. We ask with absolute clarity that there will be no demonstrations today, no marches today as it was the family's wishes on the day of the funeral that we would resume tomorrow.
So those who are out do not reflect the movement that by in large has been nonviolent. This is regrettable and inexcusable and we're asking every young person to go home, asking every parent to make sure your child is on accounted for that we would in fact become the city that has the charm that we know that we can be. This is an embarrassment to the nation and I'm hoping tomorrow is going to be a better day for all of us.
COOPER: I don't know if you have seen the fire in Chester in Gay Street, the church built senior center which is now just completely engulfed in flames, obviously you have seen I know because you have been out on the streets trying to stop this violence...
BRYANT: Yes. COOPER: ... you have seen the elsewhere as well. What kind of impact is this now going to have? I mean the destruction of that CVS which is obviously a modern store that provides, you know, pharmaceuticals for people in the community, you know, this is are -- a lot of these are new businesses that have been brought badly needed new businesses.
BRYANT: It is a terrible predicament of fire in which you speak of, it is connected to the southern Baptist church. It's a senior center, how in the world is that bring justice to Freddie Gray? The CVS, how does that bring justice to Freddie Gray?
I want to make a no uncertain term that this is not what it is that we ascribe to and no way do we promote it. We're asking all of our young people please retreat immediately. Imagine the money we're going to have to spend to restore all of this entities around the city, it's going to take away from the money we will going to use for a police cameras, what is going to use to in fact raise up a standard for public education.
They remisdirected funds that we so desperately needed in our community that's already crying out because of like (ph).
COOPER: And reverent I do think it's important to point out in addition to the police which we have been shown we have seen repeated scenes of members of the clergy, and I know you have called on members of the clergy to get out on the streets as well we've seen members of the clergy...
COOPER: ... we've seen members of nation of the Islam. We even saw a retired Vietnam vet he said he'd been in for 30 years he was a master sergeant when he retire his name is Robert Valentine and just a short time ago about 45 minutes ago he was standing between police and a group of young people who were taunting the police. He was standing trying to get them to stop, to stop what they were doing.
That to me it seems -- and the efforts by clergy and others just stop that.
[21:05:07] I've even seen moms going out on the street trying to find their kids...
COOPER: You want to see more of that?
BRYANT: Absolutely, the expression says that bad news goes around twice before good news can put on their shoes. The other day a treaty was signed in Baltimore not picked up in the press that the Bloods and the Crips gang has signed a peace treaty.
If they can make a peace treaty, I issued out the call then the nation of Islam and Christian ministers ought to be walking together as a consequence, ministers are all over the city of Baltimore tonight lacking (ph) step understanding that this is one city, we got to heal our city because this is not what we're calling for. We are not calling for vengeance and we're not calling for balance, we're calling for justice and we got to stayed focus on keeping the main thing the main thing.
COOPER: Reverend Bryant, I appreciate you talking to us tonight. I wish you the best. Please be careful. I do want to go to our Joe Johns.
Joe, explain where you are and what's you're seeing.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: OK. Here we go. Here we go. OK. Yeah. OK.
So this is like north, N Pulaski in Baltimore and you're looking at a liquor store being looted right now. You know, if you know, people just sort of come and going in, getting what they want and coming back out again, there's been a lot of action out here on the street.
This car, right over here to the right, was just burn out a little while ago.
We have a couple guys from Omega Psi Phi Fraternity who's been out here. What's your name?
KODA HANNER (ph), OMEGA PSI PHI FRATERNITY MEMBER: Koda Hanner (ph).
JOHNS: Koda (ph). What's your name?
GERALD GREEN (ph), OMEGA PSI PHI FRATERNITY MEMBER: Gerald Green (ph).
JOHNS: So what are you seeing now here guys and why are you out here and I see the baseball bat.
GREEN: I'm out here because I'm going to have business across the street and all the gentlemen, you know, we have some property out here in this parking lot.
We're just trying to maintain some order but this went crazy all day. I mean, I was actually home watching CNN. And once I saw it was closed, I would try to come out here and just, you know, try to support...
JOHNS: Keep an eye?
GREEN: ... on mess out on the street when a child that you know protect but once an angry mob is going, you know, it's going. So, I mean people that were able to close early and lock these stores down, I guess stay for the mega crusade (ph) but, other than that there's been few waves of waves of just crazy people (ph).
JOHNS: So now let's just look down here down the street here.
As you can see, we got the armor personnel carrier for the police department. We got the fire department and the distance. They've been putting out the fire here... GREEN: It's going to be some tragedy with that. I mean, I think it might been some actual people in the...
GREEN: Yeah and that was just another liquor store that they are going in and out looting and then a fire started. And I mean, you can't fault the fire department but, I mean they can't do that job with all on people out there just crazy folks running around.
JOHNS: Got it. Got it. OK. So that's the situation Anderson as we walk a little bit closer, you can see this armored personnel carrier is a county police that is West Baltimore County and I have seen you know, some state police and some others out here. I can't tell you all the different people who are on the job at this point. A lot of firefighters here look like they are rolling up their hoses as we speak.
So our producer Matt just handed and note here it says, "Baltimore city of...
COOPER: Go ahead. Read that note.
JOHNS: "Baltimore city has requested 30 additional fire companies -- Baltimore city fire department has requested 30 additional fire companies from adjacent communities to move into the city 20 engines pumpers and 10 trunks aerial lateral units."
So clearly the fire department here is calling in help from wherever they can get it to deal with what appear to be, you know, sporadic fires in different parts of this neighborhood in Baltimore, Anderson.
COOPER: And obviously the fire department needs protection when they are doing that because we saw again earlier today, firefighters at great risk themselves. Two firefighters trying to get a hose hooked up so there could be water pressure put out that fire in the CVS after they did that somebody came by, stabbed that hose twice with a knife or box cutter in order to try weaken that water pressure.
And there you see firefighters have responded as well as police units to that building where -- and just a block down, as Johns was just telling us, a liquor store that is still has people floundering in and out taking whatever is left.
Joe, I want to show our viewers an interview you did just probably about -- I don't know, an hour or so ago with a man named Robert Valentine who himself put himself between the police and some youths who we're touting the police, he is a former master sergeant.
He said, he was in the military for 30 years, a Vietnam Vet and I just want to show him because he is also a face and a citizen of Baltimore tonight and he is on the streets for all the right reasons, trying to bring down the violence. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT JOHNS, BALTIMORE CITIZEN: Sir, who are you?
[21:45:12] VALENTINE: Just a soldier.
JOHNS: And you sort of took it upon yourself to tell those young people to go away?
JOHNS: Aren't you a little bit concerned about your own safety. I mean, there is a lot of bottles and rocks some things (inaudible).
VALENTINE: I know and here is number one, I did it 30 years. OK? Came out a Master Sergeant. I've seen more than all this. I've been through the riots already.
This right here is not relevant. They need to have their butts at home. They need to be in their home units with their family study and do something with life not out here protesting about something that is not really about nothing.
They do not respect this young man's death. You know, now mom and dad lost a child that to be there. So I'm very pissed.
JOHNS: So what's your name?
JOHNS: And what's your first name?
JOHNS: Robert Valentine. So you're a Vietnam Vet?
JOHNS: And you just decided to come out here and stand up against these guys?
JOHNS: You know, a lot of people would think twice, wouldn't they?
VALENTINE: I love my country. I love my Charm City and I'm an American. I'm not black, white, red, yellow or nothing. I am American.
JOHNS: Are you concerned about what's happening to the community?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Robert Valentine pointing out "I am an American". An important message tonight back with Joe Johns, Joe I understand you have the fire chief?
JOHNS: I did. I think he just -- he walked around of the -- let me see if I can find him Anderson, I'm sorry.
COOPER: That's all right.
JOHNS: Yeah, there he is.
Hey, chief, chief come on, yeah, I just want to ask so what's the situation here? Have you knocked it down?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's always done. It's under control.
JOHNS: All right. Was it arson?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know.
JOHNS: What if there is anybody trapped this right here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No.
JOHNS: OK. But you did have an injury to a firefighter?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
JOHNS: What kind of injury?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not sure.
JOHNS: OK. But is he been hospitalized? Was it serious? Was it minor?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have to say it was serious.
JOHNS: And what smoke inhalation or what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
JOHNS: OK. All right. Well, then, thank you very much. Chief, I appreciate it as you are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh you're good. Good to see you.
JOHNS: All right. So yes, so we're just trying to get some feel for what happened at this bar and while (ph) just go fire side north, a report from these guys that people were actually looting the place.
GREEN: Right from the neighborhood, a bunch of hoodlums, you know, this is now what the mayor is calling for, it's not for public grave, we just came up for peace myself, my fraternity brothers out tonight as a call from the mayor just come in and help to restore peace, help the police so that's where we're trying to do tonight.
JOHNS: And that's your fraternity?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Omega Psi Phi Fraternity Incorporate, yes sir.
JOHNS: Got it. So...
GREEN: Yes sir.
JOHNS: So I assume it's calmed down a lot out here.
GREEN: Oh yeah. You just going to be sure a little bit while ago, you had folks in and out of the hair salon in out a bar, again you still report this down the street where they continue to loot the store which is unnecessary.
I mean that's not -- these businesses that you're destroying is going to be a tough time for them to come back at this community. We don't have many businesses in the community right now as it is and so you're come in to destroyed. This is not why we came out here for tonight.
We came out here for peace and also to get justice but also, it's a way to do it.
JOHNS: All right.
JOHNS: Thanks man. What was your name again?
GREEN: Gerald Green (ph) man.
JOHNS: Gerald Green, thanks very much. I appreciate your time. Thank you.
GREEN: Yes sir.
COOPER: Joe, I want to...
JOHNS: And that's -- Anderson I think I told you earlier. Go ahead.
COOPER: Yeah, I want to bring in Van Jones who had been watching this as well really much of the country and frankly much of the world.
Ben your thoughts on what you're seeing in the streets of Baltimore?
VAN JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all it's obviously a tragedy. You're seeing one of the things that I think is very healthy.
In the African-American community, the fraternities and sororities are not just campus-based organizations for the college students. They are a key pillar in the community. The fact you have fraternities out there that you have -- the clergy up there is very important.
Yeah, I want to say something, you know, I know this mayor, I like her, I respect her, I was actually just in Baltimore with her about 10 days ago, I shared a platform with her. I think she has been criticized for her words and for her deeds and I think it's going to continue.
Let me do it as a perspective about the kinds of thing I think she was probably trying to balance. We talked easily about balancing the first amendment rights of good protesters with public safety. There is another balancing act that every executive has to figure out which is, how much response is too much? We actually create a cycle of violence.
I think in this case, early on there was a sense we don't to provoke more and I think that makes a mistake was made, once you have that level of allowances and it's on television.
[21:50:11] If you don't respond aggressively, people see it and they go out and copycat. And I think that he was caught a step behind the cycle and never recover.
I think she's going to suffer for that. But I think that criticism of her words that she's being a keys now of having said, yeah, we're making space for the destruction.
She -- that's not what she said. She left out a word perhaps saying unfortunately or accidentally, we left space for some of the destruction. She is not someone who was trying to create room for violence, quite the opposite but I think she mishandled it by being a step behind.
That is the other balancing action we don't talk enough about. Do you by -- responding very aggressively, create a cycle you can't control.
I think trying to avoid that problem, she created this problem for herself but this is a Mayor that has been respected. She has beloved in that community. She is a child of that community. I'm sure she's heartbroken tonight.
I just wanted have somebody to give a perspective...
COOPER: Let me just point out what...
JONES: ... what she was doing.
COOPER: ... she did say which received so much criticism. She said, "It's a very delicate balancing act because while we tried to make sure that they were protected from the cars and the other things that were going on, from the protesters, we also gave those who wished to destroy space to do that as well."
Now, they've since walk that back, her spokesperson said -- she didn't mean that they meant to give space to destroy -- people's space to destroy property but what you're saying is she should have put the word in. Unfortunately, people used one word...
JONES: Yes, Anderson. One word in a situation like this can make all the difference. .She should have said in trying to protect those good protesters, we accidentally or unfortunately made space for...
COOPER: And nevertheless, she has also, as -- and you point out, she has come under a lot of criticism just even today. You know, there's not a state of -- there's not a curfew that's been put into effect for tonight though there is this juvenile curfew that just back to taken effect for people over the age of 14 and under the age of 18. And also, as Jeffrey Toobin is very critical of the police response, the, you know, that there was violence in the streets of Baltimore on Saturday. They just mobilized the emergency operations center even though the Governor's emergency operations center had been mobilized over the weekend. It just seems like they didn't have enough personnel on the streets and weren't sure initially how to respond even after the violence began.
JONES: You know, one thing that is happening that law enforcement as we are not entering something new phase in American history, where because of the videos, because of a lot of the pain and frustration both economically and otherwise in the black community are in frustration with law enforcement is now in the new stage.
Law enforcement trying to figure out what's the right combination tactics, how much force you show, how much space do you give. You saw that happening in Ferguson, you've seen it happened in other places. I think that this is a Police Department and a Mayor trying to figure out how not to make things worst.
And sometimes, you can do too much and sometimes, you can do too little in this situation in which it was -- obviously, too little was done.
COOPER: Van, obviously, at some point, the violence will be brought to an end. The National Guard is going to be on patrol but more state police and others are responding as well. More fire units are responding, in terms of though what happens in this community.
I mean, not only we're seeing the CVS burned down, looted. Not only we're seeing the Senior Center built by a Baptist Church burned to the ground also seeing small businesses. You just saw a hair's, you know, a weave store, a hair store, a liquor store, check cashing -- these are not national chains that maybe, you know, have insurance that can help them rebuild quickly. These are mom and pop operations.
JONES: Well, absolutely, you know, I have a cousin who lives in Baltimore and he was pointing out, you know, we don't have much as it is. And then, to have that taken away, and I cannot tell you the level of heartbreak as somebody who's working communities when you're trying to rebuild back whether it's in Detroit or open or other places.
It is so hard, Anderson, to get those permits, to get the -- to get banks to invest, to build a center, and to have it standing there. And to -- you could imagine the ribbon cutting and everybody can (inaudible) a sense of picture and you have that snatched away in one day, in one hour. That's the kind of thing that communities have a hard time bouncing back from.
Baltimore was on the comeback. Frankly, this Mayor's election was a part of Baltimore's comeback. And I think a lot of people in that town and across the country are heartbroken that this kind of thing can happen.
And I tell you what, you know, if you look at even Katrina, 10 years later, you still have not seen all part of the New Orleans coming back. This is not the kind of way to make just the -- or legitimate grievances against our police department. But this completely overshadows that, and you going to have now 10 years, 15 years of pain of trying to come back from one night stupidity and it's wrong.
COOPER: And let's just hope it is only one night. Van Jones, I appreciate.
[21:55:00] I do want to go back to Miguel Marquez who has been out on the streets now for many, many hours and to think of it, all throughout the most violent times.
Miguel, where are you and who are you with?
MARQUEZ: We are the southern Baptist church that is burning of it senior center is burning just behind us they believe that it is parts of what is going on Baltimore tonight. I'm with Donte Hickman, Dr. DONN Hickman the pastor here. What do you believe happened here tonight?
DR. DONTE HICKMAN, PASTOR: Someone who was insensitive and did not understand the heart of the church of this community and what we have been working on for over eight years burned down, our senior housing facility. We we're buildings 60 affordable apartments for senior citizens. And as well as the transformation center with human and health services to help revitalize the community.
MARQUEZ: I have to say you look you look exhausted, what have you lost here tonight?
HICKMAN: I haven't lost my focus, I haven't lost my sense of resiliency. I haven't lost my whole, I'm a bit a little heart broken, my eyes have been filled with tears because someone did not understand that we existed in the community to help the revitalizing it. But now we calling on resources to come back to see this as an opportunity to revive East Baltimore and the city of Baltimore.
MARQUEZ: Why do you believe this was deliberately set?
HICKMAN: I don't know why somebody would this. I can't fathom nor justify why this could happen like this but they made a mistake.
MARQUEZ: But did somebody see, somebody set the fire?
HICKMAN: Not that I know of. I have no idea why they would set this building on fire.
MARQUEZ: Were individual seeing from here though?
HICKMAN: Someone said someone was fleeing away from the site but we don't know who it was.
MARQUEZ: What is happening, you're a member of this community, what is happening to Baltimore tonight? I've been north three miles from here at Mondamin Mall at Bolton and Pennsylvania Avenue and North Avenue. It is -- it looks like a war zone, what is happening to the city tonight?
HICKMAN: Disinvestment, injustice, unemployment, lack of education and opportunities has caused so much to happen of frustration people can't see vision. People that don't have hope people don't know that -- they don't realize the access that they have, but now this should turn everybody's attention back to the urban centers.
We have to rebuild uptown the way we have do in downtown, we have to change the minds of the people that exist in our -- our young people need our help and a hope.
MARQUEZ: How soon we're you hoping to open?
HICKMAN: We were hoping to by December 2015. I got a call that it was schedule to maybe opened in November 2015, but work have been going throughout the winter, it was nearing completion ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.
HICKMAN: ... everybody's heart in the community and the church was excited that somebody cared enough to invest in the community. But we go keep moving forward.
MARQUEZ: My friend good luck.
HICKMAN: Thank you.
MARQUEZ: Very good luck to you.
HICKMAN: Thank you.
MARQUEZ: Just a heart breaking scene at southern Baptist church, someday they were hoping they really get going here and just another incident in Baltimore tonight. And officials only hoping that they got they have a lid on it at least for now, Anderson?
COOPER: I mean, Miguel to hear that pastor talk about resiliency and rebuilding even in the midst of all this.
Miguel, thank you for all your reporting. Your going to be continue your reporting throughout the evening here on CNN.
We're back with Harry Houck, formerly with NYPD, and Sunny Hostin, Jeff Toobin as well. And as we continue to just look at these, you know, these images that we have seen throughout the day. I mean there's a real question about what happens as the night progresses.
I mean is this in fact -- I mean it seems like is some areas it has, you know, in this case burned itself out, in the case of this senior center but what is the night hold we, you know, when will National Guard units actually arrive on the streets. There are lot of questions that remain unanswered.
HOSTIN: I think that's right, I think it's anyone guess. And I'm just so saddened by this Anderson. As someone who's worked in Baltimore, lived in Baltimore. Still have so many good friends in Baltimore this is not the city that I've grown to love.
And I think that the terrible thing is, you know, it will take years, years to rebuild this areas, and these areas that we're so desperate to begin with. I'm actually watching our own coverage in the state of shock and bottom line is, you know, what started out I think this peaceful protest that message is lost, that message is gone.
All -- anyone will now remember is the rioting, is the looting, is Baltimore burning and that saddens me.
COOPER: We -- obviously CNN is been to continue to cover this all throughout the night bringing you the latest live throughout the evening. Our coverage continues now with CNN's Don Lemon involves more Don?
[00:05:08] DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Anderson thank you very much.