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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Church Victims' Families Confront Gunman in Court; WBTV: Roof Had Targeted and Researched Church; Officials: Gunman Confesses To Killings, wanted A Race War; Confederate Flag Still Flying in Front of S.C. Capitol; Church Massacre Survivor Pretended to be Dead. Aired 7- 8:00p ET
Aired June 19, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:07] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, breaking news. The family of the gunman behind the Charleston massacre breaking its silence. This as 21-year-old Dylann Roof hears directly from the victims' loved ones. You will going to hear them tonight.
Plus, a woman who survived the shooting by pretending to be dead, covering her five-year-old grandson with her own body as she watched her son killed.
And breaking news in the New York manhunt for two convicted killers. There are new leads tonight. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, the breaking news, the family of the 21-year-old who confessed to slaughtering nine black parishioners at a Charleston Church speaking out for the first time. Expressing shock and grief after the massacre. At this moment, the Charleston community coming together to heal and pray. Thousands gathering right now in downtown Charleston to reflect on lives lost in a church during a bible study.
Also tonight, Dylann Roof, the man who committed that horrific act making his first court appearance. Since he told police he wanted to start a race war. You see him there. That was him today. His hands shackled, flanked by two armed guards, one black, one white, as he answered several questions from the judge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED OFFICER: What is your age?
DYLANN ROOF, SHOOTING SUSPECT: Twenty one.
UNIDENTIFIED OFFICER: You are 21-years-old. Are you employed?
ROOF: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED OFFICER: You are unemployed at this time?
ROOF: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED OFFICER: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: What followed was an emotional seven minutes. The victims' families one by one addressed Roof. He stood there as you see emotionless. It was powerful. It was raw. It brought tears to your eyes. And we are going to play what they had to say for you.
Drew Griffin is OUTFRONT live right now in South Carolina.
Actually, we're going to go to Martin Savidge first. And Martin, what is the latest?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, I have covered a lot of these bond hearings. And they are usually very typical affairs. This was not anything like that. It was extremely powerful. And if you listen to the words of those who were there, you couldn't help but grieve along with them.
SAVIDGE (voice-over): Court documents released Friday afternoon give more graphic detail of the deadly attack inside a Charleston Church. All of the victims were shot multiple times. Family members, including Dylann Roof's own father and uncle contacted police after his photo began circulating identifying Roof and his car, even warning investigators that his son owns a .45 caliber handgun. Standing solemn, mostly silent and staring at the floor, Roof was not in the courtroom where anguish victims' families had come to see him. Instead, he appeared via a video link. The judge delivered a statement including -- surprised some. Those in the courtroom were not the only ones hurt in this racially motivated act of terror.
We also have victims on the other side. They're victims on this young man's side of the family. Nobody would have ever thrown them into the events that they have been thrown into.
BURNETT: The judge's questions brought only simple answers from the 21-year-old defendant.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are unemployed at this time?
ROOF: Yes, sir.
SAVIDGE: Roof faces nine murder charges. And the judge allowed a representative of each of those killed to speak. There was heartbreak in every word. Felicia Sander survived the attack and watched her son die.
FELICIA SANDERS, MOTHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM TYWANZA SANDERS: As we say in bible study, we enjoyed you. May God have mercy on you. Every fiber in my body hurts. And I will never be the same.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You hurt me. You hurt our people. God forgive you. And I forgive you.
SAVIDGE: Law enforcement sources say Roof has admitted to investigators to killing nine African-Americans in Emanuel AME Church. He said, quote, "To start a race war." The gun he used in bought in South Carolina around the time of his 21st birthday in April. The weapon, a Glock 41, a powerful 45 caliber handgun capable of firing up to 13 rounds. Survivors said he reloaded multiple times. Despite previous arrests for trespassing and drug violations, he had not been convicted at the time he bought the gun. The sale was perfectly legal. Dylann's legal future is bound to be lengthy and could even end with the death penalty. The victims' families already know their fate, a life sentence of painful grief.
BURNETT: It was incredible, Martin today. I was watching that they kept talking about love and forgiveness, even for him. It was incredible to hear it. And what we're going to hear more from them in a moment. But we have breaking news just in and I want to ask you about.
WBTV, a local affiliate there, WBTV is reporting that Roof researched the church. He targeted it specifically because it was an historic African-American Church. And as I know from your reporting, he drove a long way just to go to this specific church.
[19:05:28] SAVIDGE: He did. I mean, that's been one of the questions that's been in the minds of all of us as we've been investigating here is why Charleston. Because we knew that he wasn't from this area. Naturally, he could come to Charleston any time he wanted to but what drew him here. So, this kind of reporting would definitely make sense that there was a specific target he saw. There was a specific place he wanted to hit. And it appears that Emanuel AME Church was that.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Martin Savidge. We talked about research. You know, he knew everyone that Wednesday night was the bible study class and he went for those innocent people in that night.
Let's go to Drew Griffin now. He is OUTFRONT in South Carolina as well. And Drew, you have the breaking news on the Roof family's message to the victims which you were able to obtain just moments ago.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And it's clear that the Roof family now watched that bond hearing and was somewhat touched by it. We have been waiting for any kind of response from them for a couple of days now. They finally released it. Their attorney handing me this statement on front porch of Dylann Roof's father's home. And I want to read to you it in part, Erin. It says, "Words cannot express our shock, grief and disbelief as to what happened that night. We are devastated and saddened by what occurred. We offer our prayers, sympathy for all those impacted by these events."
And then this, Erin, "We have all been touched by the moving words from the victims' families offering God's forgiveness and love in the face of such horrible suffering." I can tell that you that this family in Columbia is also suffering. They have had a couple of meetings today. I talked to a pastor outside of one of those meetings who said they are devastated. But of course, I'm sure they are also looking at all introspectively at all the warning signs they missed or the sirens they didn't sound as a result of what has happened in these last few days to them. But they did issue this. It came from an attorney. By the way Erin, who represents indigent care in death penalty cases here in South Carolina -- Erin.
SHARPTON: Public defender. All right. Drew Griffin, thank you very much. And as Drew and I were speaking, a vigil is under way to pay tribute to the nine killed in Wednesday shooting.
Athena Jones is OUTFRONT live in Charleston. And Athena, so many are gathering tonight in song and prayer. And again, the tone, I think shockingly to so many after so few hours have passed is one of solidarity and forgiveness.
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Erin. That's right. And this is surprising to a lot of people. But it's not surprising to the kind of people who were at that bible study on Wednesday night at the church behind me. Their family and their friends, people who follow the teachings of the bible which talks about love and forgiveness. And so while it's remarkable on one hand, it's exactly what many of them would say Jesus taught his followers.
So, they are witnessing, they are bearing witness to what he taught to the community. And talking of love and forgiveness despite their deep losses. As you mentioned, this prayer vigil is one of many tributes and events that are being held to honor the victims. At the vigil tonight, the family members of the victims were asked to stand and be recognized. This is also a part of trying to show community, unity. One of the speakers at tonight's vigil Brenda Nelson was ordained Baptist minister who joined this church Emanuel AME last August despite being of a different denomination. She was here on Wednesday night for a meeting with the pastor, Pastor Pinckney. But left before the shooting. Let's listen to what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENDA NELSON, WAS AT CHURCH BEFORE SHOOTING: We trust that the word of God as we know it is will be a comfort to the families that are in bereavement. A comfort to my family, our family Mother Emanuel, and to this community. And it reads, "Let not your heart be troubled. You believe in God. Believe also in me."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: And so there you have her quoting scripture. We have heard similar talk last night at the prayer service held at the church just behind Emanuel AME, also a multi-cultural event. Several Presbyterian churches, black and white coming together standing in circles, prayer circles. A lot of people rubbing each other's backs. So, this is the time that the community trying to come together to head. And they are doing so not surprisingly in some ways through the word of God -- Erin.
BURNETT: Athena, thank you very much. So moving she was able to speak. She had gone for that meeting. She had to go home. And that saved her life. OUTFRONT now, Pastor Thomas Dixon. He knew the Reverend Clementa
Pinckney who died Wednesday night. Pastor Dixon, you were at that vigil where Athena was just reporting from. You know, as I mentioned, it's the forgiveness that seems overwhelming. In the face of such an evil act, people would be entitled to a lifetime of anger. They certainly -- people would expect them to feel that 18 hours later. And yet they are talking about love and forgiveness and coming together. How are they able to do that?
[19:10:24] PASTOR THOMAS DIXON, COMMUNITY ORGANIZER: This is the power of the gospel, this is the power of the belief system that we live with as Christian believers. We walk by faith as the scriptures said not by sight. Sight would dictate, in face of the atrocities that were perpetrated against these families that they would get angry, want to rebel, go off and things like that. But our faith, not in what we see but what we believe, dictates to us that we don't have do that. That there is a day of retribution coming even if the perpetrator of these crimes was not caught, that his day would be coming. So, in that we have solace. We have comfort. And we can move forward without going through the normal changes that anybody else would do.
BURNETT: And Pastor, everyone around the nation who heard the victims' families today was moved, they cried, they had chills. And I want to play for you for anyone watching tonight who missed this what they said in court. What they had to say to Dylann Roof, the man who just hours ago killed those that they loved so deeply.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: We welcomed you Wednesday night in our bible study with open arms. You have killed some of the most beautiful people that I know. Every fiber in my body hurts. And I will never be the same. Tywanza Sanders was my son. Tywanza was my hero. Tywanza was my hero. But as we say in bible study, we enjoyed you, but may God have mercy on you.
ALANA SIMMONS, GRANDDAUGHTER OF SHOOTING VICTIM DANIEL SIMMONS: Although my grandfather and the other victims died at the hands of hate, this is proof everyone's plea for your soul is proof that they lived to love and their legacies will live in love. So hate won't win.
BETHANE MIDDLETON-BROWN, SISTER OF SHOOTING VICTIM DEPAYNE MIDDLETON-BROWN: For me, I'm a work in progress. And I acknowledge that I am very angry. But one thing we have always joined in our family with is that she taught me that we are the family that love built.
We have no room for hate. So we have to forgive. I pray God on your soul. And I also thank God that I won't be around when your judgment day comes with him. May God bless you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: May God bless you. I mean, it's incredibly hard to hear, Pastor. How can they be so giving to him?
DIXON: This is the power. This is the power that's taken away from that individual that did these acts and is placed in the hands of the people who it was perpetrated against. The stain of the victory that he thought that he would have is no longer there. Because they've forgiven him. He thought he was going to generate a race war. But instead of that, he found people who found it in their hearts to forgive him so that they could move on with their lives. If they didn't forgive him, they would forever be in bondage to him. Whenever they thought to think about his name, they would go to an area of anger. But now as they have started the forgiveness process, because that's a process also, then as they think about him they will not have to think of him from a point of animosity or anything of that sort. At least over time. Now they have the victory. They have taken the sting away from him. He has no power in this at all.
BURNETT: Pastor, thank you so much.
DIXON: Yes, thank you very much.
BURNETT: And next, the outrage tonight after the Charleston judge said the Roof family members are also victims. Should he apologize?
And the confederate flag, the symbol used by hate groups around the country, still flying outside the South Carolina state capital tonight. Why?
And one survivor's remarkable story. How she played dead as Dylann Roof gunned down her fellow bible study members and her own son.
[19:18:06] BURNETT: Breaking news tonight. The family of the church shooter speaking out for the first time, talking to the families of the nine black church members gunned down by their son. The family saying in a statement, "We have all been touched by the moving words from the victim's families offering God's forgiveness and love in the face of such horrible suffering."
Tonight, we are learning more about warning signs of Roof's hatred, signs visible to many long before his heinous act.
Brian Todd is in Colombia, South Carolina tonight. And Brian, you have spoken to a friend of the shooter. And what are they saying about these signs? I mean, this isn't just something that just suddenly happens where you're consumed by this kind of hate.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There were indeed warning signs, Erin. We spoke to Joey Meek, he was a friend of Dylann Roof's from their middle school years. They lost touch for a few years then reconnected recently. Joey Meek painted a very disturbing portrait of Dylann Roof's behavior in the weeks leading up to the shootings. Specifically, he talked about Dylann Roof's ideas about provoking tension between the races. Here is what he had to say. JOEY MEEK, FRIED OF DYLAN ROOF: I mean, he was just saying he
wanted segregation. He wanted a race war. He wanted white with white and black with black.
TODD: What did you say when he said them?
MEEK: I mean, I didn't agree with his opinion at all. And we just argued about it.
TODD: Joey Meek says, on the night that Dylann Roof talked about starting a race war, he says, Roof had had a lot of vodka. He said he drank a litter of vodka that night. And that his comments, that Roof's comments about starting a race war really disturbed Meek and Meek said then, he decided to take some action. He says he took Dylann Roof's gun away from him that night and decided the next morning that he didn't want to be accused of stealing a gun from his friend so he ended up putting that gun back in Dylann Roof's trunk. I asked him how he feels about that now and he says, "terrible" -- Erin.
BURNETT: I'm sure he wishes he made more calls. I mean, you know, you look back and you see, could I have done something differently? I mean, there's so much outrage also Brian tonight about what the judge said about the shooter's family in court. Right? A moment for the victims where you are giving the victims a chance to speak when they have been silenced. And the first thing he said was actually sympathy for the shooter's family. Let me play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES GOSNELL, JR., CHARLESTON COUNTY MAGISTRATE: We also have victims on the other side. There are victims on this young man's side of the family. Nobody would have ever thrown them into the whirlwind of events that they have been thrown into. We must find it in our heart that at some point in time not only to help those that are victims but to also help his family as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Of course, Brian, no one in his family was shot and killed. People are outraged.
TODD: They really are, Erin. You know, it was interesting in our live position, CNN's live position in Charleston, you know, we have to say there are a lot of people watching the coverage of this. And our live position in Charleston just after that magistrate, James Gosnell said that, as it was televised, one woman came by our live position and said to our Don Lemon, she said that, you know, what this judge said was just outrageous. She said, it was ridiculous that he would take the time at a hearing like that with everyone watching to tell people about how the shooter's family are victims. People are really outraged to what this judge said. And again, we have to say, everyone in the state it seems is watching the coverage of this event and its aftermath. Every event, every court hearing, every vigil. And the emotions are so raw. When this judge came out and said that, there was a lot of outrage in this community that we observed -- Erin.
All right. Thank you very much, Brian Todd.
And joining me OUTFRONT in Charleston, former federal Prosecutor Sunny Hostin. Along with criminal defense Attorney Paul Callan.
Sunny, you are one who shares that feeling of outrage. The judge has this moment. And it's not just that he went ahead and said, find it in our heart to help his family as well. He said it with such -- I'm trying to think of what the right word is to really capture it. But he punctuated it. It was with passion. It was with anger. It was almost like he was lecturing people.
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. It was really astonishing, especially because this was a bond hearing. And so, judges typically don't make those kinds of statements at bond hearings. They are very cursory hearings. They are usually about ten to 15 minutes at the very least. Judges often -- at the very most rather. Judges often follow a script. And so, I was just shocked by what I heard from this judge. It's something that I actually never heard before. I have attended many, many bond hearings as a prosecutor, as an attorney. And I have to echo what Brian said. In Charleston, so many people just have been coming up to me, Erin, and they are outraged by that. Something that people are sort of misinformed, they are wondering why this judge got the case and they are asking that he be removed from the case. I think it's important to note that he was the magistrate judge solely just for this bond hearing. His role is over.
BURNETT: Important point.
HOSTIN: So, he can basically do no more harm. But certainly, it's just outrageous.
[19:23:08] BURNETT: And Paul, you share Sunny's outrage. Because, how could the judge really know? Right? I mean, as you point out, we don't know who's taught this kid how to shoot. We don't know who taught this kid the racial hate that somehow is so deep in his system.
PAUL CALLAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, absolutely. And I think what was especially disturbing -- and I have to tell you, I have witnessed literally hundreds of arrangements in my career as a lawyer, as a prosecutor and defense attorney. I have never heard a judge express sympathy for the defendant's family in his opening words. And this is a case a multiple homicide by someone who allegedly stated that he wanted to start a race war. And what, the parents didn't notice that junior was contemplating a race war?
BURNETT: But we just heard Brian Todd, certainly his friends did.
CALLAN: It caused me actually, it stopped me dead in my tracks. I was looking up this judge's record. He has got a disciplinary record actually before the courts. He has been disciplined for improper behavior in the past. He's a rank amateur. And that was a disgrace to the families here. The focus should have been on those families and not on the defendant's family. BURNETT: Sunny, the family spoke. And again, that was the thing
that was so moving about this. They spoke offering forgiveness, offering love. I mean, it was incredibly hard to hear it. Right? It's like you wanted to hear them be angry, because you wanted to be angry for them. The forgiveness was more painful. Will that impact his punishment?
HOSTIN: It was really -- I don't think it will impact his punishment. But I think that anyone that heard that, Erin, anyone that was watching and listening and everyone really is watching and listening, as far as I can tell have been so affected by that message. I myself felt like crying. I think though that it was the appropriate message. This town really needs that. But what just large hearts these people have. Certainly people of faith, families of faith. And forgiveness is such a significant part of this community that I wasn't necessarily surprised that they said, I forgive you. But I don't know that I could be that person. I don't know if I could be that person.
BURNETT: I think maybe that's what was painful about it is you realize how incredible they were that they were able to be this way when most of us would just feel such hate and anger at him. One thing that some are angry about, also about this hearing, was that he was separate from the families. That they got to speech but they couldn't speak directly to him. Right? He's in a separate room. It's only connected through video camera.
CALLAN: Well, you know, a lot of people were disturbed about it. You like to see the person being charged in open court. But I have to say I can't blame the Charleston courts for this. I blame technology for this. There has been a trend across the United States now. It saves money. It gets cops back on the streets sooner. And it causes these arrests to arraignment delays to be eliminated. So, it's really been a trend in the United States toward video arraignments.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Paul, Sunny, both of you. Thank you.
CALLAN: Thank you.
BURNETT: And next, the confederate flag, it is for many a symbol of hate. It's one that Dylann Roof likes to display. It was on his car. So, why is it flying high in South Carolina's capital tonight?
Plus, breaking news, new leads in the New York manhunt for those two killers. The very latest coming up later this hour.
[19:30:22] BURNETT: Breaking news in the Charleston church massacre tonight. The family of the gunman who confessed to killing nine people at a black church speaking out for first time. They say words can't express their grief. The gunman, 21-year-old Dylann Roof, is seen in this picture posing with a car.
Let me draw your attention between his legs to the license plate, OK? That's Confederate flags. That is a symbol of hate to many, used by white supremacist groups.
So, why is the Confederate flag still flying in South Carolina, at the capitol, defended by the governor of the state?
Jean Casarez is OUTFRONT.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This flag is still flying in front of the capital of South Carolina. To some, the Confederate flag is a legitimate symbol of the state's Southern pride. For others, it's a symbol of prejudice and slavery they cannot forget.
CORNELL WILLIAM BROOKS, NAACP PRESIDENT AND CEO: Some will assert that the Confederate flag is merely a symbol of years gone by. But where we see that symbol lifted up as an emblem of hate, as a tool of hate, as an inspiration for hate, as an inspiration for violence, that symbol has to come down. That symbol must be removed from our state capitol.
CASAREZ: Twenty-one-year-old defendant Dylann Roof confessed, according to law enforcement officials, to shooting nine black worshipers at the Emanuel AME Church. He also talked about wanting to start a race war.
But online, Roof has many black Facebook friends. On his profile, Roof is also pictured with a Confederate flag license plate. It is a flag used by many white supremacist groups to symbolize their message.
The Southern Poverty Law Center says there are 16 groups like these in the state of South Carolina. But even some of these groups, including the KKK, denounce this act of terrorism.
"We think it's a shame to have someone do what while people are praying. These people were good Christian people."
The FBI continues to investigate whether Roof was a member of a white supremacist group. The groups we spoke to said he was not. The Southern Poverty Law Center says it really doesn't matter if Roof was an official member of a hate group because of the Internet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don't need to join a hate group to learn what the propaganda tells you.
CASAREZ: Roof's childhood friend Joey Meeks says the shooting is upsetting. Meek took Roof's gun away for a day a few weeks ago after Roof began railing about black people and remarked that he had a plan. A plan carried out this week.
And while the people of South Carolina now stand together on this act of hatred, still some are wondering why the Confederate flag, a symbol embraced by hate groups, is still flying and hasn't been lowered to half staff.
(END VIDEOTAPE) CASAREZ: Now, the Confederate flag, it's not flown atop the dome
of the state's capitol building. That is only for the U.S. flag and South Carolina flag. It is the governor that can order those at half staff, which has been done.
The Confederate flag, flags next to the soldier monument, that from the grounds of the capitol, and by law, it must fly at the height of 30 feet, any changes to take it down or even half staff, if it can go that way, must be passed by a super majority of the general assembly. And that has none been done -- Erin.
BURNETT: Someone says he wants to start a race war, walks around with a flag and that's not enough to get it taken down. That's incredible.
Thank you so much, Jean.
And OUTFRONT tonight, the managing editor and host of "News One Now", Roland Martin.
Now, Roland, what's your reaction to the fact that the Confederate flag is flying high in South Carolina tonight?
ROLAND MARTIN, NEWS ONE NOW: It is beyond shameful. The Confederate flag is the greatest hate symbol America has produced.
When I hear these folks talk about it's about our history -- no, it's not. This flag was raised in South Carolina over the state capitol in 1962 in opposition to federal intervention when it came to civil rights. It was a year after Alabama's George Wallace, a governor, raised it over the state capitol.
Many people don't understand, this flag actually disappeared for several decades and only was brought back to fight the black freedom movement and the civil rights movement.
So, when people -- I don't want to hear this nonsense from people and talk about, oh, it's about our heritage. No, it is a hate symbol that has no place over any state capitol flying on any grounds in America.
BURNETT: Well, you know, it's interesting. Journalist Jeffrey Goldberg said he didn't understand why it isn't treated the way the swastika is treated in modern Germany, right? Where they completely shun the swastika.
[19:35:01] So, he was agreeing with you.
BURNETT: But, you know, there was a recent survey by NBC News, and it found the country divided over this. This is pretty interesting, right?
They found 49 percent of Americans say that the Confederate flag is a symbol of racism. But an equal number see it as a symbol of simple Southern pride. Are you surprised by that? Breakdown, almost 50/50?
MARTIN: No. I'm not surprised by it because Americans have always been lied to when it comes to our history. That's the problem.
It's not history. It's his story. And so, when you have had numerous politicians, when you had numerous individuals going on television, on radio, saying, oh, no, this is about culture, it's about pride, when you are literally teaching that in American history books, of course.
BURNETT: The governor of South Carolina, Nikki Haley, who has been moved to tears about this tragedy this week, was actually asked about taking that flag down, and she said it's a non-issue. And I want to play for you, Roland, so you could exactly hear it in her own words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. NIKKI HALEY (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: What I can tell you is over the last 3 1/2 years, I spend a lot of my days on the phone recruiting jobs to this state. I can honestly say I have not had one conversation with a single CEO about the Confederate flag. But we really kind of fixed all that when you elected the first Indian- American female governor, when we appointed the first American African governor. That sent a huge message.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Huge message?
MARTIN: Really? Really, Nikki? How about this year, Governor Haley? Nine people shot and killed in a church by a racist, a terrorist. And guess what was on his car? A Confederate flag.
Now, I want to know, I want to know those CEOs respond to that. So, at the end of the day, when she says it doesn't come up, it is because it has been embraced. It is because politicians in debates have said, oh, no, that's the state, it's about heritage.
No. We have been lied to. And I'm sick and tired of this game. It is a racist symbol. It is about hatred. It is about bigotry.
She should have the audacity, she should have the courage to say, we don't need to fly that. What she should say is fly the American flag. Because you know what, Confederacy? You lost. You lost.
What other country flies a flag of some traitors who they actually beat in a war? That's how ridiculous this is.
BURNETT: All right. Roland Martin, thank you very much.
MARTIN: Erin, thanks a lot.
BURNETT: And OUTFRONT next, three survivors of the Charleston church massacre, one, a 5-year-old girl. The other, her grandmother, who laid on top of her pretended to be dead to save her life. Hear her in her own words, next.
And then, breaking news, investigators say they have new leads in the manhunt for the two prison killers after 14 days on the run. We know something new.
[19:41:44] One of the three known survivors of the church massacre speaking out for the first time, talking to the man who killed her son and eight other church members.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FELICIA SANDERS, MOTHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM TYWANZA SANDERS: Every fiber in my body hurts. And I will never be the same.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Felicia Sanders' son, Tywanza, was the youngest victim in a church shooting. He is being called a hero for attempting to save others.
Now, the shooter, we understand, left one person intentionally alive so that she could tell the world what happened. He did not know that Felicia was alive and her granddaughter was alive, because Felicia was pretending to be dead, lying on top of that 5-year-old granddaughter to save her life, trying to save that granddaughter's life, even as her own son was shot and killed.
Alina Machado is OUTFRONT.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the case of state versus Dylann Roof.
ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Accused church killer Dylann Roof didn't just face a judge today.
SANDERS: Tywanza Sanders is my son. Tywanza was my hero. Tywanza was my hero.
MACHADO: Felicia Sanders spoke directly to Roof about her 26- year-old son, Tywanza, the youngest victim in Wednesday's massacre. Felicia was also in the church that night, one of three who survived.
According to a family friend, she saw Tywanza fall to the floor after getting shot. She laid still, pretending to be dead, as her son's blood flowed around her.
SANDERS: And I'll never be the same.
MACHADO: Also forever changed, four of Tywanza's friends who remember a man known for his upbeat attitude. KHADIJAH SHABAZZ, TYWANZA SANDERS' FRIEND: I don't care what
kind of day he was having. I don't care what was going on. He was always smiling.
MACHADO: It's that smile that Khadijah Shabazz says she'll always remember. The group last saw Tywanza Tuesday night at a rehearsal for a play.
JAVETTA CAMPBELL, TYWANZA SANDERS' FRIEND: We all just said our good-byes as if we would see him Friday. He just held up his hands and said, all right, guys, good night. We just took it for granted, hey, we'll see you Friday. Not knowing the very next day --
MACHADO: Would be his last. That next night, a family friend tells CNN Tywanza confronted the 21-year-old gunman, trying to stop him from killing others. Reportedly telling Roof, quote, "You don't have to do this." That's when Roof reportedly responded, quote, "No, you've raped our women and you are taking over the country. I have to do what I have to do."
CAMPBELL: I'm sure that he tried to talk this guy out of it. I'm sure he even went down as a hero. I feel like he would have sacrificed himself before he let anybody else in that room lose their life.
MACHADO: His friends say they are heartbroken knowing Tywanza, who was working two jobs and had plans to go back to school, will never be able to accomplish his goals.
CAMPBELL: He had so much drive. He wanted so much. He was not the typical 26-year-old young man to me. He wanted so much.
MACHADO (on camera): What did he want out of life?
CAMPBELL: Oh gosh --
MACHADO: What did he talk about?
CAMPBELL: Everything. Everything.
MACHADO (voice-over): Including the play that will forever link these women to Tywanza. His final rehearsal of the play's last scene now a haunting memory.
[19:45:02] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm out. I'm ghost. I'm gone. Don't call me. Don't text me. Don't Skype me. Forget my name. Forget my life. That's a life. I'm out.
He never said it like that before.
BURNETT: And, Alina, the people you spoke to, they're not surprised at all that Tywanza would have been there and would have tried to be a hero, would have gone down trying to save his mother. MACHADO: Yes, they're not surprised at all, Erin. They say
because their interactions with him, they always saw him looking out for other people, always wanting to take care of others before taking care of himself.
And one of those friends told me, Erin, that they actually find comfort in knowing that his final moments were spent as a hero.
BURNETT: Alina, thank you.
Next, the breaking news. Investigators chasing down new leads tonight in the search for the New York prison escapees, those killers. My guest tonight, the lawyer for the prison worker's husband.
[19:50:22] BURNETT: Breaking news in the manhunt for two escaped prisoners. The killers, tonight, officials say dozens of investigators are chasing down new leads. They say they have new leads in the search for David Sweat and Richard Matt.
It's been two weeks since the murderers went missing. The authorities admit they could be anywhere.
Now, we are also learning new details about the role of Joyce Mitchell, that's the female prison worker accused of helping the killers escape. Her husband, Lyle's attorney, Peter Dumas is OUTFRONT tonight.
And, Peter, I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me.
Your client's wife accused of terrible things, right, helping murders escape from prison, having sex with one of them, an inappropriate relationship with the other, being aware of their plot to murder her husband, who's your client. How is he handing this?
PETER DUMAS, ATTORNEY FOR LYLE MITCHELL: He's really broken up right now. I spoke to him earlier today, a number of times, and he still -- he really just can't believe it's happened to him.
BURNETT: I can imagine, he's stunned. I mean, your client is an employee at the same prison where Richard Matt and David Sweat escaped, where his wife worked. Does he believe his wife was the central person here, the only person who was helping these killers escape?
DUMAS: No, no. After he's heard some of the details, he doesn't believe that she was helping them alone.
BURNETT: All right. So he doesn't --
DUMAS: But he doesn't know who could have been helping.
BURNETT: OK, OK, I understand the point that you're making, but important that he thinks that she was not the only one. When does he plan to talk to his wife, to Joyce, next?
DUMAS: Well, there's no set plan for him to talk to her again. He's worried that he may not be able to at all. And I say worried about that. But, you know, he's still got a lot of emotions surrounding her. He still cares for her a lot, but we believe that Joyce's attorney may not allow that to happen or at least wouldn't want that to happen, because he's aware that Lyle is going back to the police and telling the police everything that Joyce says to him.
BURNETT: And, now, officials say that Richard Matt, right, one of the killers on the loose, that he made a painting. He fancied himself an artist. He made a painting for Joyce, a painting that she gave to Lyle as a wedding anniversary present in April.
What do you know about this? Did she tell your client, her husband, that this was made by an inmate? What did he know about this picture?
DUMAS: Well, actually, I believe they had two paintings by Richard Matt at the house. He did know that Richard Matt was an artist and that he had painted both of those paintings. But he also knew that Richard Matt had painted paintings for many of the people who worked up at Dannemora, up at Clinton.
And it's something he wasn't comfortable with. He understood that Joyce was going to have another painting done and I believe he said that he didn't want it in the house. It was just not necessarily an inappropriate relationship, but it was something he didn't feel comfortable with, with his job.
BURNETT: Right. And at that point, so, he expressed to Joyce that he didn't feel comfortable, but he didn't say anything to anybody at the prison or authorities, right, about these pictures that this inmate was making for his wife?
DUMAS: No. No, because, as I said, the inmate was making pictures for a number of people at the prison. A number of correction officers, a number of civilian employees, is my understanding.
BURNETT: And does Lyle see any way -- you talk about his emotions, that he still cares for her a lot, that this has obviously taken him completely by surprise, in many ways. Does he think he can reconcile with his wife? Is their relationship in any way reparable, or has he figured out that this is going to end in divorce?
DUMAS: Yes. I don't believe that he feels that there's anything that he can salvage there. He -- as I said, he has a lot of emotions for his wife, but right now, he's wondering, you know, who is this woman? He has a lot of emotions for the woman that she was, not necessarily the woman that she is now.
All right. Well, Peter, I really appreciate your taking the time. Thank you.
And we'll be right back.
[19:59:26] BURNETT: This weekend, be sure to watch our global edition of OUTFRONT. It airs Saturday and Sunday on CNN International.
And this week, you'll see an ex-U.S. marine. She's a mother of two young children and tonight, she is fighting for her life against a mysterious flesh-eating bacteria. Her husband joins me for an emotional interview about her struggle. How it's affecting their young children, and about how they have no idea how she actually contracted this horrific infection.
That's this weekend on CNN International OUTFRONT.
Thank you so much for joining us. We hope that you have a great weekend. Happy Father's Day to all the fathers out the there.
Be sure you set your DVR to record OUTFRONT so you can watch us anytime.
We'll hand it off now to "AC360."