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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Documents: Cosby Said He Got Drugs to Give Women for Sex; Accusers Speak Out; Deadly Weekend; Seven Killings in Chicago, Including a Seven Year Old Boy; Keeping Them Honest; Schwarzenegger Slammed For Commuting Sentence of Politician's Son. Aired 9:00-10p ET.
Aired July 6, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, AC 360 HOST: Many accusers of Bill Cosby, tonight what one of those accusers is calling validation. That's because for the very first time after so many allegations from so many women, we can report that Bill Cosby himself has admitted to obtaining drugs -- drugs known for erasing memory for women he intended to have sex with.
Our knowledge comes from Mr. Cosby himself from the records of testimony he gave in a case that he settled out of court -- records that we just now obtained. Randi Kaye's been reading them. She joins us now with the late breaking details. What did you learn?
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, tonight, we're learning that Bill Cosby testified back in 2005 that he got Quaaludes with the intent of giving them to young women that he wanted to have sex with. Now, not only that, but he admitted giving the sedative to at least one woman and other people according to this court documents that we just got.
And here's what those court documents say, Anderson. Cosby is asked, "When you got the Quaaludes was it in your mind that you're going to use these Quaaludes for young women that you wanted to have sex with?" And hi8s response is this -- "Yes", period.
COOPER: And where are the documents coming from?
KAYE: They're coming from testimony just unsealed. The "Associated Press" had pushed the court to release the documents even though the "A.P." says that Cosby's lawyers had been fighting it. The testimony is of Cosby under oath, I should point out. And it's related to lawsuit filed by former Temple University employee, Andrea Constand. She went to police saying that Cosby had drugged and molested her back in 2004.
The district attorney at that time did not bring charges. Years later, he explained that Andrea Constand had waited a year before going to authorities and that he said hurt her case. He said he wanted to go forward but because she waited so long, he had lost that ability to test her blood for that intoxicating agent and figure out if she actually had been drugged. Now, the D.A. told CNN that he believed Cosby was evasive in his interview with prosecutors. Cosby's attorney called the allegations preposterous at that time.
But tonight, Anderson, we know from these new court documents that we've been looking at that the 77 year old comedian testified and admitted all those years ago that he gave that employee, Andrea Constand, three half pills of Benadryl.
But we can see from the testimony that her lawyers did not buy that at all, since he had also admitted in that same testimony to wanting to use Quaaludes to get women to have sex with him. The document show on that night in question, Cosby admits that he offered Andrea Constand three blue pills saying that they were herbal medication and saying quote, "I have three friends to make you relax."
Her lawyers arguing the court document that Benadryl as Cosby claimed it was would not produce an almost immobilization effect, as her lawyer say she experienced. Cosby settled that sexual abuse lawsuit, Anderson, for an undisclosed term back in 2006.
COOPER: So, I mean, as we mentioned just a second ago, this does fit into the narrative of other past allegations?
KAYE: Absolutely. Cosby's been accused by more than 24 women of sexual misconduct, many alleged that he drugged and raped them in cases dating back more than four decades. And here's just a sampling of what some women have said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA BOWMAN, COSBY ACCUSER: I never saw any drugs but I woe would wake up completely confused, half dressed, and knowing that my body had been touched without my permission.
JOAN TARSHIS, COSBY ACCUSER: We went up to his bungalow afterwards. He made me a drink, and very shortly after that, I just -- I passed out. I woke up or came to very raggedly with him removing my underwear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Has Cosby talked about these recent allegations?
KAYE: Sort of. It depends on how you look at it. I mean, 2005, he told the "National Inquirer" this, "I am not going to give in to people who try to exploit me because of my celebrity status." And Cosby by the way, had never been criminally charged. And for most of the accusations, the statute of limitation has run out. Anderson?
COOPER: Yeah. All right. Randi, appreciate the update. Joining me now on the phone is former Pennsylvania district attorney Bruce Castor who Randi just mentioned he decided to not prosecute Bill Cosby for sexual assault allegations back in 2005.
Thanks so much for being back with us. The testimony of Cosby from 2005, that he had gotten Quaaludes with the intention of using them for young women he wanted to have sex with, were you aware of those comments back in 2005?
BRUCE CASTOR, PENNSYLVANIA DISTRICT ATTORNEY: No, this is the first time hearing it. I got a guest last week from the judge. I was quoted as having certain questions about the unsealing proceeding that might be incriminating things in there. But this is the first time hearing it. I saw it -- now on the news today.
COOPER: And obviously, that's an important point because the woman who was -- he was testifying about in the lawsuit of Andrea Constand, you actually interviewed her. You believed her but she -- her recollection was not precise and you felt there wasn't enough to bring charges on. Would it have made a difference if you had known about what Cosby admitted to in this deposition?
CASTOR: It would have been helpful but probably still would have required us to have something to have something more because under Pennsylvania law, you have to be able to independently prove that a crime occurred where you can use a statement made by a suspect against them. That' called the corpus delicti rule. It is designed to keep people from walking to the police station on a cold winter day and saying, "I murdered so and so. It's unsolved in having them sit in prison when they really didn't."
And so, if I had -- what Andrea said which was uncricized (ph) and I had Cosby admitting it, I would have looked for something else. And what you would really want would be a blood test that had like a drug inert, something like that, or any little piece of circumstantial evidence that I thought could bring it over the top because the way you analyze whether those statements are admissible is you take everything you have without them. Is there enough that a crime probably occurred? If yes, then you can use the statement, if no, you have to keep digging.
COOPER: And she had waited a year before going to police. So obviously anything that had been in her system immediately after what happened to her would no longer been in her system. Of the three women who testified in this case that the deposition is from, at least two of them said, they had knowingly been given Quaaludes, correct?
CASTOR: You're asking me?
COOPER: Yeah. I'm sorry. I thought you're ready. Yes. We know that they said they had knowingly done this. Did Andrea Constand who brought the case against Cosby, do you know if she said she took the Quaaludes willingly when she talked to you?
CASTOR: No. She had -- she never said she took Quaaludes to us. I think my recollection is that she said that she was given some cold medicine or something like that not any Quaaludes. She didn't admit anything like that. And the -- I heard in the preamble that these were statements under oath. The courts would not have to give the statements had I not publicly cleared him saying that he would not be prosecuted because the Fifth Amendment would have allowed him to shield himself from incrimination until such time as I remove the possibility of prosecution.
Once I did that, he is now required to answer those questions. At the time I made the decision not to prosecute him, I knew this opportunity I would preset itself in the civil case so I knew he definitely answer questions under ought, then he didn't have to answer to me.
COOPER: That's interesting. I had not realized that. Bruce Castor, I appreciate you being with us tonight. There is a lot more to talk about on this. With our CNN legal analyst, Mar O'Mara, Danny Cevallos, both criminal defense attorneys and Sunny Hostin a former federal prosecutor who joins us now on the phone.
Sunny, first of all, what's your take on what Mr. Castor had to say and also the revelations that Bill Cosby gave in this deposition?
SUNNY HOSTIN, FMR. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, it's certainly one of the frustrations, Anderson, that we have as prosecutors. It's often times not what happened but what you can prove. And I thin k what we heard from Mr. Castor, he suspected that she was telling the truth. Often times, you know that someone is telling the truth but you got to prove it up with blood evidence, you got to prove it up with testimony, you got to prove it up. And he was incapable of doing that.
I do think now that Cosby under oath admitted these things, told his own story. I do think it gives a lot of credence to all the women that have been saying for years that he drugged them and that he sexually assaulted them.
Let's talk about Quaaludes. I mean Quaaludes are depressants. They're used for insomnia. They knock you out. So if you are buying or getting Quaaludes as Bill Cosby for the reason -- for the sole reason to have sex with other women -- with women -- he wanted to knock these women out. And he paired them with alcohol, we're talking about not only a very dangerous thing that he did, we're talking about a criminal thing that he did.
And I hope that those that cast dispersions on all of those women, called them liars, supported Bill Cosby, have long, long, look at themselves and perhaps apologize to these women who had the bravery to come forward and admit and talk about the things that he did to them.
COOPER: Mark, you know, it's interesting in this deposition, he talked about a number of prescriptions for Quaaludes in the 1970s when Quaaludes were in fact available in the United States.
[21:10:03] To my knowledge they are no longer available in the United States. And he was asked whether he kept those Quaaludes till 2005 with Andrea Constand. That was objected to by attorneys. I don't believe that question was ever really answered.
So I'm not clear if he still had Quaaludes in the mid 2000s, if he'd gotten them from overseas -- I think you could still get them overseas -- or in fact it was true that he was perhaps using something else. MARK O'MARA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think what her attorneys was trying to get to was the fact that well, he may have had the Quaaludes that he had prescriptions for in the '70s back in 2005. I don't know that that was particularly relevant and necessary because we all know even back in 2005, you can get depressants or...
O'MARA: ... over the counter drugs you can get to knock people out. I think they were trying to make a connection there was obviously his drug. But his legacy is now seemingly going to be one sort of a serial rapist and now that this one admission has come out. We call it similar fact evidence. And what it really does is land an enormous amount of credibility to all those other victims who have come forward and complained about his actions.
COOPER: Yeah. Danny, I mean do you see this as sort of the smoking gun that's been missing in all these allegations that have come out against Cosby to actually hear it from himself saying, "Yes, I used Quaaludes in the past and there's -- I mean because now there's also civil lawsuits not just about the incidents but about some of the defense that Cosby's spokespeople gave siding basically, you know, kind of tossing these women aside saying that they're lying? They're defamation lawsuits.
DANNY CEVALLOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It looks really bad for Cosby. I would expect if I would play devil's advocate on Cosby's side, this deposition is no more than him admitting the recreational drug use with the drug that to be frank has fallen out of the public consciousness, but my understanding is back in the day it was a drug that was used when people would drink and have fun and party or whatever. But I think today at the same testimony was hey, I gave her an Ambien or I gave her something that we're more familiar with, we might even be more shocked.
It's fascinating that he may have admitted in the deposition in his mind that he was saying I used these drugs for recreation. But still even using them recreationally with consent demonstrate some highly risky, very dangerous behavior. So this is certainly bad for Bill Cosby and I have to believe he never expected it would see the light of day because he mistakenly probably believed these records were sealed forever. And the law is actually the opposite of that.
Sealing records is not the presumption in this jurisdiction which happens to be where I practice. Instead, as time goes on as two years passes, they are supposed to be reviewed and that seal is supposed to be lifted if there's no longer a good reason to keep them secret.
So I imagine that the disclosure or the possible disclosure of these sealed records must have come as a shock to this defendant Bill Cosby.
COOPER: Right. And Sunny, his attorneys were fighting the release of this. The attorney -- my understanding that the judge essentially said, "Well, listen, why are you fighting this, this is his sworn testimony? Why would he be embarrassed about what he swore to, you know, in a deposition?" HOSTIN: Well, that's what's remarkable. I mean, under these, you know, federal court rules in Pennsylvania, they get until two years unless Cosby has shown some sort of specific harm (ph). And the argument he was making was well, potential embarrassment. I could be very embarrassed by this. I am not really a public figure.
That's ridiculous. How were you embarrassed by your own account, by your own admission? And I think the judge certainly did the right thing in ruling that any potential embarrassment is insufficient given the gravity of these allegations.
And let's remember, we're not talking about well, over 12 women coming forward, high profile women, women certainly that have something to lose. And again, I hope now, that the public has this information and really hope that people that stood by him, the people that cast dispersions on these women take a good look of themselves because, Anderson, I've been saying from the very beginning, having prosecuted sex crimes, it is rare for a woman to come forward and lie about a...
HOSTIN: ... that or a story: They don't want to put themselves out there like this.
COOPER: The other question and one -- I had a guest in the earlier hour who said that she was raped by Bill Cosby in 1979. She says that she's in communication to other people who have yet to come forward. We're going to play that interview a little bit of that coming up. Stick around everyone because I'm going to take a short break.
Some of the many accusers as I said including woman who says that Bill Cosby raped her and that her boss at the Playboy Club basically told her to just stay quiet.
[21:15:04] Now she's talking and her story, you'll hear it ahead.
And later the outbreak of Murder and Mayhem over the weekend in Chicago. And why the parent of one young victim is actually not talking to police. Imagine that. Your son gets killed, your seven year-old child gets killed. Police say the father was the intended victim, your child takes a bullet and you don't talk to police about what you saw so you can solve the murder of your own son. We'll talk about that ahead.
COOPER: The breaking news, court documents revealing Bill Cosby's testimony under oath that he obtained Quaaludes to give them to young women he intended to have sex with. It follows of course a parade of allegations of sexual misconduct dated back decades.
CNN's Alisyn Camerota spoke recently with one of many women who say Cosby drugged and assaulted them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: New York City, the big time. It was here a now 18-year old Barbara Bowman hoped she could find the acting career she dreamed of. With the backing of her agent and Bill Cosby, one of the country's biggest superstars, she thought she had a shot.
BOWMAN: I'm going to prove it that I have it in me. And I'm going to be the model actor, model student. And they were going to open those doors for me.
CAMEROTA: Open those doors she says as long as she played by their rules.
BOWMAN: I found myself in New York, then under complete unuttered control of him and my agent.
[21:20:06] I became very isolated. I was put into an apartment and I was supposed to just very, you know, stand straight as an arrow, go straight to acting classes, come straight back.
CAMEROTA: The rude awakening came here, Bill Cosby's Manhattan ground zone.
When is the last time you saw this?
BOWMAN: That night.
CAMEROTA: She says Cosby invited her over for what was supposed to be tutoring.
BOWMAN: I had one glass of wine, went up stairs, started the acting exercise and that was it. I just remember putting the script down because I needed -- like I was feeling fuzzy, dizzy.
It was like a lobotomy where there, you're awake but you're not there, you're vacant and just a baffled state of mind. Next thing I know I'm in the bathroom. And I am throwing up.
CAMEROTA: Bowman says she didn't know why she was throwing up. Cosby would tell her she drank too much but she says she never even finished her glass of wine.
BOWMAN: So as I'm throwing up over the toilet and he is right here and the robe is -- it's tied but it's open. And the boxer shorts are open and his penis is out and brushing against my back.
CAMEROTA: Your panties are on you or off you?
BOWMAN: They're like on pulled over to this side and like all messed up and I knew what happened.
CAMEROTA: How did you know what happened?
BOWMAN: Because a woman knows, and I was wet and dirty.
I was drugged. I was assaulted. And I was raped. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Now back with our panel Sunny Hostin, Mark O'Mara and Danny Cevallos.
Sunny, there seemed to be so many commonalities in these women but the one that is just so, you know, storming is the most say you know they thought no one would believe them or they were told to keep quite about it.
HOSTIN: And I have to tell you unfortunately again having trial sex crime women still feel that way and how compelling is what she just -- what we just say what she just said. It's so compelling. I think she seemed honest, forthright, and even with that type of conviction in her voice, in her manner, she still didn't think anyone would believe her.
Women often times do not come forward, Anderson, because they do not believe they will be believed. And I think what is -- and because they are embarrassed, some of them are in shock, and let's remember we're talking about Bill Cosby here. It's one thing I think that come forward when it's someone that you don't know well, maybe date rape something like that, it's another beef when you're talking about coming forward and testifying against someone that is famous that will have the funds, the money to hire the best and the brightest attorneys to protect them.
COOPER: And, Mark, on the three of Cosby's accusers have filed deformation lawsuit does pending against him because his agent, as I mentioned to Danny, said their accusation weren't true. Does this testimony -- does it help their case?
O'MARA: I think it absolutely does help their case. This is sort of the ways that might open the door some type of liability because even though they could not discuss limitation to us, exclude their ability to sue way back when, it's something today was deformation saying that they lied when in fact now we know the truth which is that the victims, the women, was speaking the truth back in 2005, back in 2010 whenever they said it.
Now, they have the opportunity to sue him and say, "Put the defamation for calling me a liar in public when I said I was raped." It may open themselves up to a lawsuit.
COOPER: Danny, in the defamation suit, Cosby's legal team, they're trying to get the case basically thrown out even before discovery. If the case moves forward, could Cosby be forced to testify again?
CEVALLOS: He certainly could and remember the truth as a defense to any defamation case. The problem is, is that you have to spend the money and litigate that defamation lawsuit and if he wants to, if he needs to prove his case or defend them self a party in a civil suit is going to have a to eventually take the stand whether that would be in a deposition or at trial or both in most cases. The reality is that most people -- this is an interesting case because it gives us a rare glimpse into deposition which is not something the public normally sees. What you realize in depositions is that the scope of discovery is far broader than you would see at trial. So why is that important here?
Well, because what eventually gets into a trial is narrowly limited but if all of this testimony exists in a deposition transcript it can be searched for anything that might be used against Cosby here in the modern day and that's exactly what's happened here.
COOPER: All right, Danny Cervallos, good to have you and Mark O'Mara, Sunny Hostin.
Just ahead, tonight a woman who says that she feels vindicated by the news. What she says she endured and she -- and how she says she was told to keep quite about it.
COOPER: More in the Bill Cosby breaking news, early I spoke with another accuser, Patty Masten is her name. This is a picture of her with Bill Cosby. Patty encountered him in 1979 when she was a manager at the Playboy Club in Chicago.
Here's what she told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Your reaction to hearing what Bill Cosby admitted to under sworn testimony.
PATTY MASTEN, SAYS BILL COSBY RAPED HER: Complete validation. Across the board from all of us, complete validation.
COOPER: To you, it tells the story of what happened to lots of women?
MASTEN: Absolutely to me and many others.
COOPER: Tell me a little bit about what happened to you. You met him in 1979.
MASTEN: Well, I was a Playboy bunny in Great Gorge and Bill Cosby was on the Playboy circuit so he performed in all of the clubs so I know him for five years even before this situation happened.
I was in Chicago as the bunny director -- bunny mother they called it. And he was being interviewed by Maggie Daly who was a famous columnist at the Tribune at that time. And afterwards, he asked me if I wanted to have lunch.
Now again, I knew him for five years and so we had lunch at Banquet on a Bun and later that afternoon, he called me on a private number in my office which I didn't understand how he got that number but he asked me if I wanted to have dinner the next night and I said, "Sure".
So he called me that afternoon and said, "Well, meet me at the White Hall Hotel." So I didn't think anything of it. He was in town for -- he was doing a comedy show, he was doing interviews, so I met him at the White Hall, I called him downstairs he said, "Come up to this particular suite." When I went up to the room, there were four other men in the room and they're were playing cards and smoking cigars and watching sports and Cosby asked me if I wanted to have a drink.
And it was 7:30 in the evening, I wasn't much of a drink and I said, "Well I'll have a little Grand Marnier." Now that's an after dinner drink so you could tell what kind of a novice as I was. And he sent a bellman out to get the bottle, brought the bottle back up, and he fixed the drink behind me. I took two sips, and that's the last thing I remember...
MASTEN: ... until -- two sips -- at 4:00 in the morning, I woke up in bed naked, bruised, and battered, and I looked over and he was there naked. And I slivered out of the bed because I didn't want to wake him and I gathered my clothes and I got dressed and I went downstairs and I got a cab. Went to my apartment, took a shower. I had to go back to work at Playboy, I had to get the girls on the floor. And I went back to work and...
COOPER: Do you have a memory of what happened between that drink?
MASTEN: I don't have any memory at all of what happened but I knew, I knew that I was brutally raped. I knew it. And after he raped me, I told my bosses at Playboy what he did to me and Playboy said to me, "Well you know, Bill Cosby is Hefner's best friend right?" and I said, "Yes, I know that." "Well nobody is going to believe you. I suggest you shut your mouth."
COOPER: That's what you were told?
MASTEN: That's what I was told.
COOPER: But also, you said you were in touch with many women who worked for playboy who are reaching out to you saying they had similar experiences. Are these people who have not yet come forward publicly?
MASTEN: There's many that haven't come forward.
MASTEN: We're up to 48 that have come forward, 48 women and there's probably another 50 that gin dozed.
COOPER: Really you believe there are 50?
MASTEN: I know, I know, I know. And there's my Facebook is lighting up -- we have private Facebook pages just for playboy bunnies only and its lighting up. There are if you did me to its coming out you know, its happening. COOPER: Why do you think somebody would drug -- this was a guy who where at that time was at the height of fame -- probably not even at the height of his fame but incredibly popular, incredibly well liked, could have probably met women? Do you think this was something he particularly liked to do? The drugging aspect?
MASTEN: He's a sociopath. They have no remorse. He will definitely be known as the most prolific, serial, rapist in the United States of America. No doubt, Dr. Huxtable will be.
COOPER: And you believe more women will come forward?
MASTEN: I know. I know they will.
COOPER: Well Patty, I appreciate being on tonight. Thank you very much.
MASTEN: My pleasure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well coming up tonight, another deadly weekend in Chicago.
Seven people killed. Including a seven year old boy cut down by a bullet. The police say was intended for his father but they say he's a known gang member. And by the way, his father is not cooperating with police since the investigation his own sons killing.
COOPER: We've reported often on violence in Chicago. Seven people were killed at this holiday weekend including a seven year old boy, gunned down by a bullet but police said, it was meant for his father, a gang member with a long criminal record. At a vigil for seven year old, Amari Brown, a family friend said unless there are major changes, this sort of tragedy is just going to keep happening.
Chicago's police superintended says the system is broken and I'll speak with him in a moment but first, Ryan Nobles has more on the deadly weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEIRDRE HOLMAN: You might as well turn yourself in because this seven year old -- our family member did nothing to you.
BRYAN NOBLES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This seven year old is Amari Brown, killed by a bullet police believed was intended for his father. A man police have called a known gang member who's been arrested more than 40 times. In addition to Brown seven others were killed this weekend ranging in age form 17 to 48. At the nearby Greater St John Bible Church, Pastor Ira Acree is frustrated.
REV. IRA ACREE, PASTOR, GREATER ST. JOHN BIBLE CHURCH: Amari was not in a gang. He's seven years old and there is power in the blood of the innocent.
NOBLES: Acree believes, Chicago needs fewer guns and more opportunity but despite the horrific headlines, real change doesn't appear close.
ACREE: We need to go straight to the core and the core is to deal with the social desperation.
NOBLES: The level of violence in the nation's third largest city is not much better than it was two years ago.
NATHANIEL PENDLETON, DAUGHTER SHOT TO DEATH: I'm not going to say they're worse but I'm definitely not going to say they're better.
NOBLES: That's when the murder of 15 year old Hadiya Pendleton sparked outrage across the country. Hadiya's parents still can't believe that her death did not lead to greater change. And that again, this weekend, yet another innocent young life was cut short.
CLEOPATRA PENDLETON, DAUGTHER SHOT TO DEATH: This is the heartbreak because I know what's that -- those parents are feeling.
NOBLES: But despite the frustration, the Pendleton's will not quit because the pain they feel will never go away.
C. PENDLETON: We don't want other people to feel it -- feel the way that we felt. And then, yet there have been thousands of other young families that unfortunately haven't joined this fraternity had never once wants to be a part.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And Ryan joins us now from Chicago. So, the seven-year old boy's father who police believed was the intended target of the shooting, is he now cooperating with the authorities?
NOBLES: No, Anderson. He's not cooperating with the police. And, frankly, they're not surprised. They believed that he was a high level member of a Chicago gang. And one police officer told me today that those gangs have their own system of justice.
COOPER: Ryan, I appreciate you've been with us. I spoke with the Chicago Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy shortly before air.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Superintendent, the seven-year old boy who was killed, you say the system failed him. How so? How did it fail him?
GARRY MCCARTHY, CHICAGO POLICE SUPERINTENDENT: In this case, the intended target was the victim's father. And the victim's father was arrested 45 times. The last time for a firearm here in Chicago back in April. He bonded out the next day.
I'm sorry. But if you are arrested 45 times, you shouldn't be on the street especially when the last one is gun possession. He should have been a high bond setter or a high bail but the system here in Chicago, well, I should say in Illinois doesn't allow for that.
The possession of an illegal loaded firearm is not even considered a violent crime for sentencing purposes. And until such time, that changes here, we're going to be talking about Chicago violence.
We can make a better police department. We could make a more functional police department. We take more guns off the street than any city in the country every single year, seven to one, compared to New York City.
And I mean, I worked to New York for 25 years as you know and I know those officers, these are great officers here. They are not seven times better than the New York City Police Department.
COOPER: This young boy who got killed, his father who, was you say was the -- supposedly the intended target is not cooperating with the investigation into the murder of his own son. Is that still the case?
MCGARTHY: Yeah. That's still the case. Yesterday, after I kind of went public with my rant, he gave us a statement but it was a vanilla statement that he didn't say anything. You know, I can't reveal the circumstances that we know occurred at that scene at this time but he could do a lot better for us. Let's put it that way.
And, you know, the fear is, he's going to take care of it himself. So, while we're being held accountable for violence here in the city and I accept our accountability as a cog in the wheel, there's so much bigger picture here.
If he wasn't on the street, the shooting doesn't occur. Now that he's on the street, I'm worried that the next shooting is going to occur as retaliation.
COOPER: Right. And in retaliating, who knows who gets killed in the crossfire of that. I mean, I got to say I know there's this whole code of not being a snitch but it used to be that snitch was somebody who would give -- talk to the police in order to get a lesser sentence or turn on somebody. This is just being a decent human being, being a decent citizen and saying what you saw especially when it's your own child has been killed. I got to say I just find it incredible.
MCGARTHY: Yeah. And you hit it on the head, Anderson. There's a different stream being in a co-conspirator and being a witness. And, you know, that's the difference between -- yeah. That's exactly it. It's incredible.
COOPER: You know, I mean, hopefully, somebody who saw something will come forward. Because though, I mean, if people don't report crimes, if people don't admit what they saw and tell the police, things don't get solved. I mean that's -- that contributes -- that is part of the problem.
MCGARTHY: Yeah. It is part of the problem. And in this case, we've got some really good leads at this point but, you know, it's -- as you said, it's just incredible that we're not getting cooperation from the individual who we know can probably put this thing over the top very easily.
COOPER: To the parents in the neighborhoods where kids and teenagers over the weekend were killed, parents who have genuine concerns about the safety of their kids, what's your message to them? I mean, can you really tell them that they are safe?
MCCARTHY: My message is, you know, we've got a lot of work to do. We've made improvements. We're doing better but at the end of the day, if we're going to fix gun violence in the city of Chicago, it revolves around the entire system getting involved starting with having legislation that make sense, that puts a sanction, that is swift and certain as far as gun possession goes.
COOPER: All right. Superintendent Garry McCarthy, I appreciate you've been on. Thank you.
MCCARTHY: Always a pleasure. Thanks, Anderson.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, up next tonight, Arnold Schwarzenegger back in theaters in the new "Terminator" movie but he doesn't seem to want to answer questions about of his last acts as governor, commuting a sentence for killer who's father was his political ally. We'll keep him on is next.
COOPER: Arnold Schwarzenegger is back in movie theaters around world. The new "Terminator" movie opened over the long holiday weekend, but Schwarzenegger wasn't in the last and some of the franchise because he was serving as governor of California. Tonight the one of his very last acts as governor is that the center of a fire storm, a sentence that he commuted on his last day in office in 2011, keeping him honest, the killer he freed is the son of a former political ally. Our Kyung Lah reports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The terminator, rebooting his blockbuster franchise with all the spectacle you'd expect from Arnold Schwarzenegger. But we're here because the former California governor ignored request for interviews from CNN.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Arnold, Arnold, Arnold?
LAH: And is still appearing to dodge our questions. Will you answer another question from CNN? We're here to ask him about someone else who says they're being ignored by Schwarzenegger, Fred and Kathy Santos.
FRED SANTOS, FATHER OF LUIS SANTOS: He plays a hero in the movies yet in real life he is not a hero, he is a dirty politician.
LAH: They're the parents of Luis Santos, an average college student who's young life and death got tangled up in the highest levels of California politics.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: San Diego 911.
SANTOS: My boy's dying, my boy's dying.
LAH: October 4th, 2008, 2:16 A.M. grainy surveillance video captured several figures running.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have three people stabbed at least, maybe four.
UNIDENTIFED MALE: We were randomly attacked, we were randomly attacked.
LAH: Four friends out on the San Diego State University campus jumped by strangers. You can't make out the actual crime but three were injured and one of them 22-year old, Luis Santos, the left ventricle of his heart sliced and stabbed wound bleeds to death.
SANTOS: Stay awake Luis, stay awake. Come on. Stay awake.
LAH: The attackers fled speeding out of San Diego Sacramento to their home they stopped at this 7/11. You can see one of the men carrying a big golf cap they filled it with a dollar of 30 worth of gas using it to torch their bloody cloths. They ditch their knives on the Sacramento River weapons have where never recovered, and only to police hours to identify four suspect and soon a motive.
BONNIE DUMANIS, SAN DIEGO COUNTY DIST. ATTORNEY: They were kicked out a party so they decided that they were going to stab some people.
LAH: Two of the suspects fingered Ryan Jett and Esteban Nunez as Luis Santos as killers the defendant initially pleading not guilty.
SANTOS: My concern was that a politics might interfere with justice with a legal system.
LAH: It was immediate?
SANTOS: Once I knew the connection.
LAH: The connection defendant Esteban Nunez father is Fabian Nunez at the time of the murder Nunez was California's most powerful lawmaker, in 2004 when he was worn in as California's assembly speaker his son was by his side. Now the politician was standing by his son. Nunez called on this political friends to support his son at his bail hearing, letters from union leaders state political leaders, even then mayor of Los Angeles Antonio Villaraigosa who wrote to the court that Esteban Nunez is a young men of good and upright character.
LAH: Was anyone in power speaking for your son? SANTOS: No, nobody in power speaking. We're just write our folks.
LAH: While politics swirled above the murder trail just days before it begun Nunez and Jett were offered a plea deal by the prosecution.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I pray that the universe will deliver to you a just punishment for your empty and satanic souls.
LAH: Then at sentencing 16 years behind bars each a maximum penalty for men slaughter and assault.
LAH: What did you think about that?
KATHY SANTOS, LUIS SANTOS MOTHER: Well I thought it was better than nothing. Well, which is why we agreed to a pluvial so that there is punishment.
LAH: What happened?
K. SANTOS: Well when we got cheated out of that.
LAH: What the Santos' didn't know Fabian Nunez had forge a close friendship with the Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger on his very last night in office without ever hearing the Santos' family a prosecutors, Schwarzenegger commuted Esteban Nunez as sentenced flashing a 16 years to just seven. He set to be released early next year.
DUMANIS: I think it was a political cronyism and its worst.
LAH: Over several weeks CNN repeatedly requested an interview with Fabian Nunez which he denied, but Nunez did speak to reporters in 2011.
FABIAN NUNEZ, LABOR UNION ADVISER: From the beginning my son was a headliner in this case.
LAH: He alleged prosecutors were hungry for a conviction because of Esteban's connection to a powerful man.
NUNEZ: It was a totally different standard legal standard applied to my son.
LAH: In this letter objecting to the court's sentence, Nunez argued that his son did not harm Mr. Santos that Jett was the real killer. Something witnesses told police but prosecutors maintained Esteban wilted that night his role in the crime equal.
DUMANIS: His actually stabbed two of the four boys, himself as to Luis there is a question as to whether or not he was stabber but he participated in what cause that stabbing.
LAH: The only justifications Schwarzenegger gave for his decision was in his actual commutation letter where he sited Esteban lack of criminal history compared to Jett. Santos family now suing the state learned of Schwarzenegger stunning move from a local reporter.
LAH: Anything you want to say it to Arnold Schwarzenegger?
F. SANTOS: No. It would be a waste of my breath.
LAH: We decided to go ask for him after ignoring our request for interviews we caught up with the former governator now terminator at his premier.
LAH: Hi, I'm Kyung Lah from CNN. So I want to ask you a question about your political route Esteban Nunez, do you -- why did you commute his sentence?
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, FMR. GOVERNOR: Well, the innocence with you today for the movie promotion we always told just then about movies so I have to talk about the terminator and I love to talk about the Genesis and that is the most important thing, OK? Good. Good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you guys.
LAH: The family is trying to go to the Supreme Court, sir.
We try again.
Arnold , Arnold, Arnold.
Arnold, may I ask you a question on behalf of the Santos family.
He won't respond returning to his Hollywood life while Santos family returns to their minus the glamour.
[21:55:07] Why are you continuing to fight?
F. SANTOS: We were not there to protect him, to prevent him from being killed. This is the only thing we can do for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: That was story. Kyung Lah joins us now from Los Angeles. Did they enforce your break any laws here I mean is -- I guess allowed to do this right?
LAH: He's certainly allowed to this. We've covered this sort of commutations before. Two California judges so far has said no and they have reluctantly said no in there writing they have said that this reeks of politics one judge calling his actions, quote, "repugnant". And there is a new law on the books now Anderson, California governors must now notify victim's families before doing anything like this.
COOPER: And Esteban Nunez, he set to be release next year and I suppose there's nothing the family can do to stop that.
LAH: Yeah, that's very unfortunate. Family can't but they still want to go to the State Supreme Court. They still Anderson are hoping at least to get an apology. COOPER: All right, that's an incredible story. Kyung Lah thanks for reporting. We'll be right back.
COOPER: I need you to follow the breaking developments in Bill Cosby story. Well, see you again at 11:00 P.M. Eastern for another edition of 360. I hope you join us for that. Thanks very much for watching. CNN Tonight with Don Lemon starts now.