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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Source: Second Number on Debris Matches Boeing 777; Plane Debris to Arrive in France Shortly; New Questions About A Security Vulnerability on MH370; Republicans Slam Trump on Immigration; Critic on Trump: "More Incoherent" Than a Raging Alcoholic; Officer Who Shot Unarmed Man Wants His Job Back; Zimbabwe Wants U.S. to Extradite Lion- Killing Dentist. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired July 31, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:09] KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news. New evidence tonight that the plane debris found in the Indian Ocean is, in fact, MH370. That as a volcano eruption slows down the search for more pieces of the doomed plane.
Plus, tough talk coming from Donald Trump. Coming under fire in his own party at Sarah Palin comes out in his defense. Does she help or hurt his cause?
And the search for the dentist who killed Cecil the Prized Lion. Zimbabwe tonight calling on the United States to extradite him. So, will the U.S. hand him over? Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening, everyone. I'm Kate Bolduan in for Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, breaking news. An important new clue for investigators searching for MH370. A second identifying number has been found on the piece of debris discovered in the Indian Ocean. Sources tell CNN this number is also consistent with a Boeing 777. This as Malaysian officials are increasingly confident tonight the debris say piece of the missing plane. One Malaysian official saying today that it most certainly belongs to a Boeing 777. And we know MH370 is the only Boeing 777 unaccounted for in the world. Right now, this piece of debris, a plane's flaperon is expected to arrive in France shortly for analysis.
We will going to begin our coverage tonight with Rene Marsh. Rene, you broke this story. A second identifying number on this flaperon, it seems very little doubt now that this is, in fact, MH370.
RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. We are still waiting for the official confirmation. But a source is telling me in photos of the debris, Boeing engineers spotted a number 11 digits long. That number is also consistent with a Boeing 777. Now, yesterday, we showed you this image published in a Reunion Island newspaper showing a code number that matches up with a component number in an internal Boeing 777 maintenance manual. That number there is 657bb. So, now Kate, that means there are two sets of identifying numbers on this one part linking the debris to a Boeing 777.
BOLDUAN: But even without this possible piece of evidence, Rene, U.S. intelligence has already concluded that this was a deliberate act. Why is that?
MARSH: Well, analysts, we're told, looked at the multiple course changes that the aircraft made after it deviated from its scheduled course. It was going from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing. They determined that someone in the cockpit deliberately either programmed or steered the aircraft to fly towards very specific navigational way points in the sky. As you see there, crossing Indonesian territory and eventually going towards the South Indian Ocean. After assessing that path that you are looking at there, these analysts said there was no way that an aircraft could make such movement without human intervention. And that's how they got to that conclusion, Kate. Also, based on the little evidence that they do have now.
BOLDUAN: Yes. A whole lot of work to do still, clearly. Rene, thanks so much.
And on Reunion Island where the debris was found, the search continues tonight. But complicating efforts, if you can believe it, a volcano erupting on the island. Some areas have already been evacuated.
Nima Elbagir is OUTFRONT from Reunion Island for us tonight. Nima, searchers are actively looking for more debris along the coast right now.
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Kate. Police helicopters were flying overhead through most of the day and on the beach -- that this cleanup crew which spotted that first bit of debris, they were back down there. The sense is that perhaps if this is MH370, then we will going to be learning a lot about the current that possibly could have brought it here, moving it so far from what was initially thought to be the search area. And if this is MH370, then that current will give us a broader sense of what should be the new search site, which would be expected to encompass not just Reunion but beyond, perhaps to Madagascar and the southeastern coast of Africa. Of course, everybody now is waiting for that confirmation that it's MH370 before they start thinking about where else they need to be looking. But even while that is going on, people here haven't stopped their search.
BOLDUAN: There have been so many false alarmed to this point. You can understand everyone's trepidation on -- hesitation on this. But as for the pieces of debris, it's still making that long journey to France for its analysis, right?
ELBAGIR: Yes. The expectation is that it would get there later tonight your time, which would make it morning in France. It's actually two pieces of debris. The wing remnant, that will go to the lab just outside of Taulis (ph). And then also the remnant of the luggage which will be heading to Paris. Now we understand that because this is under the court's judiciary investigation in France because of the involvement -- four French citizens I should say were on that missing plane, this is now where the judiciary gets involved. And it shows you how seriously they are taking this remnant.
[19:05:34] On Monday, they will going to have a working session that will include investigators from Malaysia and then the judge overseeing this is going to instruct that the analysis begins Wednesday also in the presence of Boeing investigators involved in the analysis and Malaysian investigators. But the sense we got from that lab is that given the equipment they have there, that they are expecting to start reaching conclusions pretty soon after that -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: Nima, long days for you. Thank you so very much for your reporting.
OUTFRONT with me mow, Richard Quest is here with me. Dennis Moore is also with us, an aviation accident investigator and a mechanical and aeronautical engineer and David Gallo, the director of special projects at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. Gentlemen, it's great to see you. Thank you so much.
Richard, you are here with me.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
BOLDUAN: This is the focus right now.
BOLDUAN: This is the piece of debris that they have. It's making its way to France. Experts with a keen eye are looking at so far is where is the damage and where isn't the damage.
QUEST: Right. And as this video shows, you have the front end or if you like the leading end and you've got the trailing end of this flaperon.
BOLDUAN: Let's hone in on exactly what we can look at so we can take a look here.
QUEST: All right.
BOLDUAN: So, first we have got -- here is the first picture. This is the front end you are saying, right Richard?
QUEST: Yep. So, this is the -- what they call the leading end. The plane is going that way. This is the part that actually attaches to the aircraft. This is the bit that goes out into the back, into the slip stream. And this piece of equipment will move up. And it goes up by maximum of ten degrees, down by up to 36 degrees. And that of course is what it is designed for.
BOLDUAN: Already though, what are experts gleaning from where there doesn't seem to be damage and where there does in terms of maybe what happened? Where are the theories right now?
QUEST: Look at this. There's almost nothing on that. Which suggests it certainly didn't bump into anything like the other part of the wing that it would attached onto. It would be crushed or crumbled.
QUEST: But the damage of course is on this side, the side panels. And if we look at the rear of this -- this is the other side of it. Now you start to see some serious damage.
BOLDUAN: So, we're talking about these barnacles. But there are also tears under here as well. Is that what you're seeing in the middle?
QUEST: Yes. Just look at the actual line of this thing. It's going like this. So, that has been jagged out and when we talked to David Gallo in a moment, he will going to give us some insight into what these barnacles which seem to be absolutely across the whole of the --
BOLDUAN: You can see them even right here.
QUEST: Absolutely. So, what we have is a piece of the wing, this flaperon, you know, let's be sensible about this.
BOLDUAN: It's from a 777 and it's more than likely than not from MH370. Let's just call it what it is. And you have got this damage. You have got this good bit, bad bit. And from that they can work out how it went into the water.
QUEST: And that, Dennis, is where your expertise sets in. The debris is headed to France. And then the engineers and the specialists, they will get their hands on it. What can engineers learn from examining how the metal tore apart or exactly the state of the metal in, almost, I would say, for a lot of better term, a more molecular fashion?
DENNIS MOORE, MECHANICAL AND AERONAUTICAL ENGINEER: Well, that's going to depend a little bit Kate on how it has survived the more than a year in the ocean. Just as a point, it looks like the flaperon is actually mostly composite rather than metal.
MOORE: It may have a honeycomb upper and lower surface. But really what they are going to be looking at on a macro level is for instance looking at the trailing edge. Did that break off being bent up? Did it break off being bent down? Did it fail in some other fashion? Being torn off to the left or to the right. And from that, looking at that and looking at the loads with the models of the structure, you can then analyze perhaps angles, forces, velocities at which it may have entered the water.
BOLDUAN: It seems to be some of the key questions that clearly we don't know right now. And David Gallo, on this -- Dennis raises an interesting point, how long it had been in the water. The fact that this piece was in the ocean for so long, could that wash away any of these clues and hinder this examination process the engineers are going to undertaking now?
[19:10:16] DAVID GALLO, WOODS HOLE OCEANOGRAPHIC INSTITUTION: Yes. I think the contrary, Kate. I think that it's almost like a science experiment unto itself. That it has been floating for 500-plus days and picking up the chemistry of the ocean coming along with some of the animals that grow on it the barnacles, for instance. And good biological forensic biological studies can tell us where those barnacles more or less came from. And so we will learn an awful lot about the chemistry and the life on that piece of metal. BOLDUAN: And it's not just about -- as David Gallo is getting to,
it's not just about this piece of metal. But he is also pointing out what's on the piece of metal. And David, you can jump in on this. But Richard has also been pointing out, what is a barnacle, what isn't a barnacle? We don't necessarily know, David Gallo. But you are clearly much more of an expert on that than we are.
GALLO: But barely. From my view of it, it looked like many of the things that we see floating in the ocean that have been out there for some time. So, as I said, looks like its own little science experiment. But there will be I promised when the BEA and the ATSB and others get their hands on it in Taulis (ph), they will study every little bit and extract every clue that they can from from that flaperon.
QUEST: It's got secrets that it has to give up. And now it's up to the French experts to unlock it.
BOLDUAN: To unlock it. Gentlemen, thank you so very, very much.
OUTFRONT for us next, was there a security breach on board MH370? We will going to show you how someone outside of the cockpit could have taken total control of the plane.
Plus, Jeb Bush on how he is going to handle Donald Trump at the first GOP debate.
And the University of Cincinnati cop who shot and killed an unarmed black man tonight, he wants his job back. We'll going to have a live report coming up.
[19:15:53] BOLDUAN: Breaking news on the search for Malaysian Airlines flight 370. Tonight, new evidence that the piece of debris discovered off the Coast of Africa could be from MH370. A source telling CNN that a second code found on the debris is consistent with Boeing's 777 and MH370 is the only unaccounted for 777 in the world. U.S. intelligence suggests a deliberate act from the cockpit took the flight off course. But tonight, there are new questions about a security breach that could have taken place on that flight.
Kyung Lah is OUTFRONT.
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The washed up debris still brings pilots no closer to a consensus on the greatest mystery of their profession.
RET. CAPTAIN ROSS AIMER, CEO, AERO CONSULTING EXPERTS: There's all kinds of theories. Everybody has a different theory.
LAH: U.S. intelligence agencies believe it's likely the plane was deliberately steered by someone in the cockpit. But retired united airlines pilot Ross Aimer flew the 777 and trained pilots on the jet at Boeing. He says the debris launched a new round of speculation among his fellow pilots. Among the theories, a section of the aircraft known as the EE Bay or the electronic's bay may have been breached.
(on camera): What's in the electronics bay?
AIMER: This was basically the brain and heart of an aircraft. In case of a 777 which is a very highly electronic aircraft, all the electronics that control the entire airplane are in that electronic bay. So, this is the most important part of this aircraft. Other than the engines. So, every pilot that flies a 777 knows how to get down there.
LAH: It's designed for maintenance access. But here, you can manage all flight systems taking total control of the plane. We're not going to show you where the access is on the aircraft. But we will show you what's widely available on the internet. In this aviation video viewed tens of thousands of times online, you can see in the bay various electronics, wires and green tanks. The concern floated by some pilots, they say Boeing manufactures and delivers a 777 with an unsecured access door. Most of the airlines add a lock and the access is hidden. So, only crew and perhaps some aviation enthusiasts would know how to get in. That's why a breach aboard MH370 is something the pilot says is possible but unlikely. Investigators around the world found no immediate red flags from anyone on board. More likely believes Aimer a catastrophic fire or even that one of the crew, perhaps Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah or co-pilot Fariq Abdul Hamid were somehow involved.
AIMER: One of the things that investigators do, they never leave any stone unturned. They look at just about any possibility.
LAH: And pilots say, they want to know, they need to know what happened to MH370, not just to solve this mystery but for the field of aviation, because Kate it is after the accident investigation is over that aviation learns and is better able to prevent the next one -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: It's an excellent point. Kyung, thank you.
OUTFRONT for us tonight, Chris Swecker, he's the former assistant director of the FBI's criminal investigative division and CNN aviation analyst Miles O'Brien.
Miles, as Kyung was pointing out in her report, you brought up the possibility that someone could have broken into the electronics and equipment bay in your PBS documentary. Now, we're not going to show the video of the entrance to that hatch. But is this security vulnerability a real threat on all 777s?
MILES O'BRIEN, PBS "NEWSHOUR" SCIENCE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, here is the thing. The 777 ships from Boeing with an unlocked door to that E and E bay, which is the brains of the aircraft. It's a computer fly by -- aircraft. So, if you can get in there, you essentially own that aircraft, as it were. That door is located in the cabin area and it ships to customers unsecured. There's no regulation by the FAA or any of the other agencies that have jurisdiction over aviation requiring that door to be locked. Now, some airlines have unilaterally ordered lock kits from Boeing to do that. But we shouldn't have to rely on airlines to unilaterally make this decision. This should be a locked door, period. It's a tremendous security Achilles heel on my view.
[19:20:18] BOLDUAN: It sure seems like it. And Chris, it seems like this hatch provides access to every major system on the plane. How serious should folks be taking this?
CHRIS SWECKER, FORMER ASSISTANT FBI DIRECTOR, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIVE DIVISION: Well, Kate, if this is, in fact, true, it's an unacceptable vulnerability. And I would be shocked if the intelligence services out there, especially the FBI and others, weren't aware of this vulnerability. And let's hope that if it exists, they're quietly working on the fix immediately.
BOLDUAN: Immediately. Well, that's a big question. So, Miles, does this theory in any way rule out the possibility that one of the pilots was responsible -- is responsible? Because as you said, it's not in the cockpit. It's outside of it.
O'BRIEN: Well, certainly, if you are a pilot in the cockpit already, you don't need the E and E bay to control the airplane. You have all the controls you need right there in front of you. But we know by looking at this, it's almost guaranteed to be some sort of deliberate action. Human hand involved. So on your suspect list, you would you look at the crew. The captain and first officer, the most likely people to do something like this.
BOLDUAN: Because Miles, someone can't just walk in there and come upon that hatch and even if they got in there, you need expertise to know what to do. Right?
O'BRIEN: You do. You want to have somebody who has experience as an aircraft and power plant mechanic, for example, who had worked on jet airplanes. But this is a big enough room where you could stow away in it. It also has a door unlock as well which goes into the forward cargo hold. So, there's all kinds of possibilities for a stowaway scenario. I'm not saying that's what happened and MH370. But I do know this is a vulnerability and in this aircraft. And it needs to be addressed.
BOLDUAN: It sure does. Chris, U.S. intelligence has said as we've been reporting someone in the cockpit deliberately caused the plane to fly off course. It doesn't necessarily mean for nefarious reasons. But you think that one of the pilots is responsible. Why?
SWECKER: Well, we don't know when that assessment was done. But I agree with it, because in any investigation, you have to anchor it with what you know. Theories are interesting. But what you know is what you work with. And you work out from there. And what we know is that the plane communication systems were deliberately disabled. We know that the plane changed course dramatically and headed off in several different course changes. And there's a general consensus from what I have seen in general source reporting that that had to be done deliberately. That points to one of two people really at this point, the pilot or co-pilot.
BOLDUAN: They are still a long way from establishing that as they only have possibly likely found one piece of debris from that plane so far. Miles, Chris, thank you both so much.
And tonight, CNN investigates the mystery of MH370. Don't miss our special report vanished, that's tonight at 9:00 Eastern.
And OUTFRONT next, Donald Trump accused of being incoherent talking tough on immigration one minute then saying this to CNN.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I would get people out and I would have an expedited way of getting them back into the country so they can be legal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Plus, Zimbabwe wants the U.S. to extradite a dentist for killing a beloved lion, Cecil. So, where is that dentist tonight?
[19:27:37] BOLDUAN: Donald Trump's tough rhetoric on immigration sent him soaring to the top of the polls. That's for sure. It's his take now on that same signature issue that's drawing criticism from fellow Republicans. And fellow conservative Republicans at that. Meanwhile, his biggest defender of the day is Sarah Palin. Sara Murray is OUTFRONT.
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From his presidential announcement speech.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They are bringing drugs. They are bringing crime. They are rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.
MURRAY: To the campaign trail.
TRUMP: Hundreds of thousands of people illegals coming over the border. Hundreds of thousands in jail.
MURRAY: All the way to the U.S. Mexico border.
TRUMP: There are areas that you have to have the wall.
MURRAY: Donald Trump has ignited a debate and drawn plenty of criticism over remarks on immigration. Now his facing new attacks, this time from former allies after softening his tone in this interview with our Dana Bash.
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When you say legal, do you mean legal status or can they be eligible for citizenship?
TRUMP: Legal status.
BASH: No citizenship.
TRUMP: No citizenship. We will see later down the line, who knows what's going to happen. But legal status.
BASH: So, you are open to --
TRUMP: It's something I would think about. I would say right now, no, I'm not open to it. I would say legal status.
MURRAY: The conservative Breitbart News network, one of the biggest cheerleaders for Trump's earlier immigration comments call his latest remarks mushy and incoherent. Their editor-at-large Ben Shapiro put it this way, if this sounds incoherent, "that's because it's more incoherent than a raging alcoholic after a night of shots who just crashed his Chevy Impala into a lamppost." But backlash was brewing even earlier. Anti-immigration group NumbersUSA recently blasted out an email to its 1.5 million supporters questioning whether Trump was pro-amnesty.
ROY BECK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NUMBERSUSA: Instead of a politician who sits down with staff and policy wants and works it out, Trump is making his policy on the fly in public. This is like a reality show. And each time he brings something out, it raises more questions.
MURRAY: By Friday, Trump sounded nearly like his old self. On a visit in Scotland, he reaffirmed to CNN that he would force Mexico to pay for a wall to secure the border.
TRUMP: Mexico is going to pay for it and they will be happy to pay for it. Because Mexico is making so much money from the United States if that's going to be peanuts.
[19:30:00] And all these other characters say, oh, they won't pay, they won't pay because they don't know the first about how to negotiate. Trust me, Mexico will pay for it.
MURRAY: So far, polls show Republicans give Donald Trump pretty high marks on the immigration issue. But after these latest shifts, it will be interesting to see if any conservatives decide it's time to dump Trump.
Back to you, Kate.
BOLDUAN: Sara, thank you so much.
OUTFRONT tonight, former Reagan White House political director, Jeffrey Lord. He is a contributing editor at "The American Spectator". And Ben Ferguson, CNN political commentator and conservative radio host.
Great to see you both.
So, Jeff, you heard Sara's piece. You've got the conservative Breitbart news site slamming Trump over his immigration policy. They called it more incoherent than a raging alcoholic. Does Trump have a problem on his hands here?
JEFFREY LORD, THE AMERICAN SPECTATOR: Well, I'm not sure that he does. You know, I'm holding in my hand here another piece by Ben Shapiro's boss that says, "Time to get tough, Trump's blockbuster manifesto."
And what Steve Bannon is talking about is this Donald Trump book from 2011 which Steve Bannon at Breitbart called detailed, innovative and smart. It rivals all over GOP presidential candidate books in both specificity and serious policy proposals. And his immigration policy --
BOLDUAN: But are you hearing specificity right now?
LORD: It's all right here. I mean, it's all been out here in document form. So, sure. I mean, candidates as they go along don't always talk in specific terms. They write these books.
BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: All right. But hold on --
LORD: They put out policy proposals. This is Trump's.
BOLDUAN: Go ahead, Ben.
FERGUSON: Is Donald Trump -- are we voting for trump or are we voting for Donald Trump's ghost writer? Because I will take Donald Trump at his word instead of something he wrote a long time ago that someone else probably wrote for him and he put his name on it, just like he wasn't designing his ties that were at Macy's.
Donald Trump in literally a minute and 30 seconds contradicted himself four times. He said he is in favor of amnesty. He is also in favor of deporting everyone. Then, expediting importing them back in and then maybe letting people stay if they have parents here, and they are younger. But then he is not sure if he will give out amnesty.
Those are his words now. Not in a book that someone else wrote for him. So, again, if you look at what he is saying, he doesn't know what his policy is.
LORD: Ben, Ben, Ben --
BOLDUAN: Go ahead.
LORD: Ben, I think most assuredly he does know. While sure I'm sure --
FERGUSON: Then explain the complaints.
LORD: I am sure -- I am sure that this book went through Donald Trump himself.
FERGUSON: Hold on. You are telling me -- wait, let me make this clear. You are telling me that you are saying we should trust Donald Trump in the book, not the Donald Trump the candidate who is now running for president when he said this in the last 24 hours? You are saying completely throw that away? You don't trust the current trump, the trust the one in the book?
LORD: No, no, no, no, no. I am saying to you that he is tough on illegal immigration. That's his policy. He said it over and over and over and over again.
FERGUSON: So, let me --
BOLDUAN: Ben, let me ask you this.
LORD: Ben, this is --
FERGUSON: When he says he wants to deport everyone, that's his policy?
BOLDUAN: Despite maybe what seems incoherent to some, despite what he put in the book, the fact of the matter -- I have to bring you back to the here and now in the reality in the polls right now, Ben, I mean, he may not be diving into specifics, he may sound confusing to folks on his policy positions, but it sure seems that a lot of Republican voters don't care. They just like how he is selling it. Just look at the polls.
FERGUSON: Well, I think the poll numbers show there are a lot of people that they are very angry with the establishment and for good reason. They don't like the John Boehner Republican. So, Donald Trump has been able to have a honeymoon without anyone else really challenging him.
That's about to change when the debates get started. You are about to see the candidates engage one another. And if Donald Trump thinks he can go up there and wing it and contradict himself, he will be eaten alive by people that actually prepared for these debates, and didn't just go out there hoping to walk into something that makes them more popular. I mean, let's not forget --
BOLDUAN: Jeff, do you -- do you foresee a week from now Donald Trump getting eaten alive?
LORD: Do I? No. I don't think so. I mean, that's not Donald Trump. I mean, I suspect that might be the case with some of the other folks in terms of Donald Trump. No, I don't think that's going to happen to Donald Trump.
BOLDUAN: Real quick before I let you guys go, I've got to ask you, the biggest defender of Donald Trump today, Sarah Palin. She came out with wild praise for Trump in writing -- I will read part of this. "Trump's unconventional candidate is a shot in the arm for Americans fed up with the predictable poll-tested blather of squishy milquetoast career politicians who campaign one way and governor another."
That's hard to get out in one breath, first of all. So, does Sarah Palin's support going forward, does it help him broaden his base?
LORD: It helps him in terms of the Republican electorate he has to appeal to.
[19:35:00] This is most certainly a shot in the arm. Sarah Palin is an asset with a lot of people within the base of the Republican Party. I'm sure Donald Trump is very pleased to have this endorsement from her. Absolutely.
BOLDUAN: What do you think, Ben?
FERGUSON: This is a perfect marriage. Sarah Palin, this is her last real shot at being in a cabinet. Donald Trump would be probably the only candidate that would appoint her to a cabinet position. And she also has a very, very, very major fan base that is willing to go out there and work for you. Put out yard signs, knock on doors. Donald Trump needs that. And he will tap into what Sarah Palin has.
People that like Sarah Palin are absolutely in love with her and they obsess over her. If she says give money to this guy or go out and campaign or show up at this rally, they are going to do it. So, I think for both of them, this is a great opportunity.
BOLDUAN: A perfect marriage might be exactly what you are saying.
LORD: So, we agree on something, Ben.
FERGUSON: There you go.
BOLDUAN: I am ending it there. I want to end on a high note on a Friday night. My goodness!
Great to see you. Have a great weekend. Thanks so much.
LORD: Thanks, Kate.
BOLDUAN: Of course.
OUTFRONT for us next, the Cincinnati police officer charged with shooting and killing an unarmed black man now wants his job back. Is there any evidence that could clear his name right now?
Plus, the dentist who killed Cecil the Lion, where is he tonight? And will the United States actually extradite him to face charges in Zimbabwe?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [19:40:16] BOLDUAN: New developments in the case of an unarmed black man shot and killed by a white officer. Tonight, the now former University of Cincinnati officer is out on bail and he wants his job back. Ray Tensing says he was forced to fire his weapon because he feared being run over and dragged during a traffic stop.
But we're now learning that two other officers that were on the scene, they say that wasn't the case.
Jason Carroll is OUTFRONT.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two officers who responded after one of their own, Ray Tensing, fatally shot DuBose during a traffic stop will not face charges. A grand jury deciding not to indict Officers Philip Kidd and David Lindensmith who are both on administrative leave. Tensing told Officer Kidd he shot DuBose after being dragged by his car. Nowhere on the video does it show him being dragged. Though, initially, Kidd is heard telling Tensing he thought he saw him being dragged.
OFFICER PHILIP KIDD: He was dragging you, man.
OFFICER RAY TENSING: Yes.
KIDD: You good?
TENSING: I'm good. I got my hand and arm caught.
CARROLL: Another officer who arrived later, Eric Weibel writing in his report, "Looking at Officer Tensing's uniform, I could see the back of his pants and shirt looked as if he had been dragged over a rough surface."
The responding officers telling the grand jury they did not see Tensing being dragged by DuBose's car.
DEREK BRINSON, BROTHER OF KELLY BRINSON: And I think it's terrible.
CARROLL: For Derek Brinson, hearing the names Kidd and Weibel reopens old wounds.
BRINSON: I was like, oh my God, hose are two of the guys that were involved in my brother's case.
CARROLL: Officers Kidd and Weibel were two of several police officers involved in another controversial case involving Derek's brother Kelly. In 2010, Kelly Brinson checked himself into the University of Cincinnati hospital for psychiatric help.
According to court documents, he became so agitated, doctors gave him sedatives and directed him to a so-called seclusion room. Several university police officers responded to restrain him, including Weibel and Kidd. It was captured on a surveillance camera.
BRINSON: There is the fatal tasing right there.
CARROLL: Brinson was tased three times but not by Kidd or Weibel. Kidd said in his report, "I struck him in the jaw with my elbow." Weibel writing, "The patient aggressively resisted." As a result of what happened, Brinson stopped breathing. He died three days later.
It's unclear if any of the officers were disciplined. Brinson sued the university hospital which settled for $635,000. The university's president would not comment on specific officer's actions but says great strides have been taken over the years to train their officers.
SANTA ONO, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF CINCINNATI: We have quite extensive training, even beyond that mandated by the state, that occurs with all of our police officers.
CARROLL: Brinson says it's time for the university police officers to go.
BRINSON: They just don't have what it takes to be police officers.
CARROLL: And I spoke to a senior official with the police union who tells me as a result of that 2010 incident, university police are no longer allowed to police the psychiatric ward at the hospital. But having said that, Kate, he also says those officers in 2010 did nothing wrong. He says they were trying to restrain someone who does not -- who did not want to be restrained.
And as for Ray Tensing, the police union says he did nothing wrong as well. They said he didn't receive due process and that he should have his job back -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: Wow, a lot going on at that university to say the very least. Jason, thank you very much.
OUTFRONT next, we have some breaking news that we're just getting in for you, a very close call between a Delta plane and a drone just 100 feet apart at one of America's busiest airports. Startling details that's just coming in and that's next.
And, Donald Trump takes a page from the book of manners.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Otherwise, you don't have a country. Excuse me. Excuse me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:48:09] BOLDUAN: Some breaking news now: an extremely close call for a Delta plane tonight. A Delta pilot flying into JFK Airport was attempting to land at about 5:00 p.m. this evening when he noticed a drone near his wing. In fact, just 100 feet from the right wing he says.
This audio just in of the pilot talking to air traffic control. Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DELTA 407: Tower, Delta 407.
TOWER: Delta 407.
DELTA 407: Yes, about a mile back, there was a drone flying just under the southwest side of this abandoned airport here.
TOWER: At what altitude would you say that was?
DELTA 407: I would say probably about a hundred feet below us, just off our right wing.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BODLUAN: The Delta flight with 154 passengers on board from Orlando, it did land safely. Now, the FAA is investigating. A scary, scary close call tonight.
But also this other big story we're watching tonight. Officials in Zimbabwe are now calling for the extradition of the American dentist who shot and killed the protected lion known as Cecil. Through a representative, Dr. Walter Palmer has voluntarily contacted U.S. Fish and Wildlife, which is investigating the controversial kill.
But the dentist has gone into hiding as he has faced online outrage and even death threats.
David McKenzie has been following the story for us in Johannesburg, South Africa.
So, David, Zimbabwe is clearly upping the ante here. They really want Dr. Palmer to be forced back there to face charges.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's right, Kate. And you know, the U.S. and Zimbabwe have an extradition treaty. So, technically, it's possible, though experts say pretty unlikely the U.S. will comply with any extradition request in this case.
But they have upped the ante and they say this dentist hunter who lured Cecil out of that park and killed him according to allegations, in fact, had orchestrated this all and he should be facing trial and even facing charges that could get him ten years, Kate.
[19:50:11] BOLDUAN: There's also been concern, David, about the lion cubs in Cecil's pride, now that the male has been killed. There's been a lot of concern about this, especially online.
So, what are you hearing about that tonight? MCKENZIE: Well, you know, we were all very concerned that those cubs,
more than a dozen of them, would be killed. That's generally what happens when the dominant male leaves a pride, then another male will come in, take over, and kill the cubs. So, obviously, very -- there's a lot of concern around the world by that.
And the Oxford University group that is tracking these lions told us, you know what, in this case, there's a glimmer of hope. Cecil's brother in that pride, which they called Jericho is, in fact, protecting those cubs. And so for now, they are OK.
But certainly, the overall situation of poaching and trophy hunting really has come into the limelight, in the story, and there's a lot of cause for change and even for the banning of to trophy huntings, no matter what happens with the killing of this lion in particular -- Kate.
BOLDUAN: Definitely brought in to the spotlight, that's for sure.
David, thank you very much.
I want to bring in CNN legal analyst Paul Callan for more on this.
They want him extradited. They want him taken, sent back -- forced back to Zimbabwe to face charges. What do you think the chances are the United States would extradite this dentist?
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's hard to say, but I think extradition comes down to about maybe 60 percent law and 40 percent politics. And the reason I say that is because ultimately, the State Department of the United States has to decide whether to recommend going forward with the extradition.
And we always look at the criminal justice system in the country that we're extraditing too. Zimbabwe has a problem with human rights violations, that it has been criticized for, for many, many years, and I'm not so sure, even though we have a treaty, that the U.S. would be so eager to extradite one of our citizens to that system of justice.
The second thing is, you have to prove that the crime that was committed in Zimbabwe is the same or similar to a criminal law in the United States, the dual criminality rule. We don't know what the offense is that he's being specifically alleged to have committed in Zimbabwe.
BOLDUAN: Poaching. Poaching, we've been saying.
CALLAN: Well, poaching. But hunting lion is legal in Zimbabwe. Believe it or not, I just got off the phone with somebody who is a big game hunter that I know and who told me, he had hunted lion in Zimbabwe and that the amount of money paid in this case is comparable to what people pay to do it legally with a guide. So, whether the dentist knew he was taking a protected animal is hard to say.
BOLDUAN: He's in hiding now. He could face ten years in prison, is what David McKenzie says, should he head back there. What should the doctor do? No one knows where he is. He's in hiding
now. He's faced death threats. What would you advise him to do?
CALLAN: Well, if I got a call from him, I would say, keep your head down and I don't think it's in his interest to be giving public statements.
I mean, obviously, people are really distraught about the death of this beautiful animal. A public sentiment is going to be against him. There's nothing that he can say to turn public opinion.
And he just has to hope that if time passes and he's not placed under arrest, that it will be forgotten. I don't think by going on any kind of a public tour to try to defend his position he's going to help himself.
BOLDUAN: Yes. Paul, great to see you. Thank you.
CALLAN: OK, thank you.
BOLDUAN: Coming up next for us, Jeanne Moos on how Donald Trump turns a very nice gesture and somehow turns it into a verbal assault.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:57:36] BOLDUAN: It appears Donald Trump's trademark "you're fired" is now a thing of the past. His new favorite phrase is much more polite, or is it?
Here's Jeanne Moos.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He may be a guy who portrays himself as more manly than mannerly.
TRUMP: How stupid are our leaders?
MOOS: But Donald Trump has taken a page.
CHARACTER: Excuse me.
MOOS: Out of the etiquette books.
TRUMP: Excuse me.
Excuse me. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stronger background check.
TRUMP: Yes, I have a gun. Excuse me.
MOOS: The Donald has taken the childhood lesson.
CHARACTER: You said excuse me. You used good manners.
MOOS: And Trump has weaponized it.
TRUMP: Excuse me. I raised a lot of money.
MOOS: To verbally beat back his interviewers.
TRUMP: Excuse me, you raised it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you want to interrupt you have to say the words "excuse me."
TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me. Excuse me.
MOOS: Some times punctuated by a finger.
TRUMP: Excuse me.
MOOS: Or two hands.
TRUMP: Excuse me.
MOOS: The number of excuse me escalates.
TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me.
MOOS: As tempers rise.
TRUMP: Excuse me, excuse me --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are a billionaire, though, why would you not move it here just to have in America?
TRUMP: Excuse me, because I'm a businessman.
MOOS: Donald Trump hasn't just discovered the tactical use of manners. He has been excusing himself for years.
Back in 2011, Chris Matthews counted a record breaking number of excuse mes in a single interview.
TRUMP: Excuse me. Excuse me. I have very -- excuse me.
CHRIS MATTHEWS: Eighteen excuse mes.
MOOS: But there is one guy who Trumps even trump when it comes to excusing himself.
No, not Homer Simpson. HOMER SIMPSON: Well, excuse me!
MOOS: Steve Martin.
STEVE MARTIN: Excuse me.
MOOS: It's almost a badge of honor to be asked by name to excuse Donald Trump.
TRUMP: Excuse me, Matt.
Excuse me, Katy.
Excuse me, Savannah.
MOOS: The guy famous for these two words --
TRUMP: You're fired.
MOOS: Fires off these two words.
TRUMP: Excuse me.
MOOS: Way more often.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When an adult is talking. They'll stop talk --
CHARACTER: Excuse me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes?
CHARACTER: It works. It works. I said excuse me. You stopped talking.
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN --
TRUMP: Excuse me.
MOOS: -- New York.
BOLDUAN: I honestly believe I've seen him excuse himself in the middle of an interview. On that note, excuse me, folks. Have a good Friday.
Thanks for joining us.
"AC360" starts now.