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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Trump Signs Republican Loyalty Pledge; Trump holding lead, slammed by Bush; Carson Not Afraid To Speak His Mind; Illinois Officer Killed: Home Security Video Being Analyzed; Marriage License Standoff: Judge Holds Kentucky Clerk In Contempt; "Deflategate" fallout: Judge sacks NFL's Brady Suspension; Race for the White House, Donald on Kanye: "He loves Trump."; CNN Films Presents "Fresh Dressed"
Aired September 3, 2015 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:07] ANDERSON COOPER, AC360HOST: Thanks for joining us for this extended edition of 360.
We begin this hour with a pledge of allegiance from Donald Trump. Today, Trump signed a loyalty pledge to the Republican Party, a promise to support the GOP nominee even if it's not Trump himself and a promise not to run as a third party candidate. From announced that he signed the pledge after meeting privately with RNC Chairman, Reince Priebus. And he spoke in the lobby of Trump Tower about the pledge and his opponents. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Chairman just left, as you probably know, and he's been extremely fair. The RNC has been absolutely terrific over the last two month period. And as you know, that's what I've wanted. I've wanted fairness. I don't have to be treated any differently than anybody else. I just wanted fairness from the Republican Party.
The absolute best way to win and to beat the Democrats and very easily, I think, beat the Democrats no matter who it may be, whether it's Hillary or anybody else. And I think maybe Hillary is going to have a very hard time, frankly, with what's happening getting to the starting gate.
The best way for the Republicans to win is if I win the nomination and go directly against whoever they happen to put up and for that reason, I have signed the pledge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
TRUMP: So I will be totally pledging my allegiance to the Republican Party and the conservative principles to which it stand and we will go out and we will fight hard, and we will win.
Look at Hillary Clinton and I've said she's the worst secretary of state in the history of this country. Now, everybody that's attacked to me has gone down to tubes. You have Lindsey Graham attacked me. She was at 3%, now is at 0. You have Perry attacked me, now he's getting out of the race, she was at 0. Everybody, Rand Paul attacked me and Rand Paul is down to less than 2% and he attacked me. Now, Jeb Bush also just went down in the (inaudible) very big. So I don't know. I mean, they're going to spend -- he's going to spend lobbyists money and special interest money.
Remember this, they have total control over Jeb and Hillary and everybody else that takes that money. Nobody knows the system better than me. Those people that are putting up those millions of dollars have total control over your candidate. I will tell you this, nobody is putting up millions of dollars for me. I'm putting up my own money.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Joining me now is CNN senior political analyst and former presidential advisor, David Gergen, Washington Post national political reporter, Robert Costa, and CNN chief political correspondent, Dana Bash.
Dana, you heard from press conference today, news conference, how real is this pledge?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's as real...
COOPER: And there's wiggle room.
BASH: There's wiggle room because it's not legally binding. So it's real as his candidacy for the Republican nomination is right now. He said he has absolutely no plans to tear it up. But, you know, he also if you asked him a few years ago if he had plans to run for president as a Republican, he would have said, "No way. I'm pro-choice and free universal out there." So, you know, even those who are really close to Trump, maybe especially those who are close to Trump, will say that you expect the unexpected with him.
COOPER: Robert, I mean it seems like in a one hand. It's only fair to take down Trump at his word, should any candidate. On the other hand, this is politics and there's not only a lot of wiggle room with the whole concept of being treated fairly by the GOP to use his word but also a lot of time in which there's -- a lot could change.
ROBERT COSTA, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: We're very early in the race right now, Anderson. And this is not a legally binding document. Trump has rooms to make a different decision at a different point in race. He's really trying to show solidarity with the party, win over those reluctant activist who have been questioning him and whether he'd really -- have an alliance with the party. But at some point, he could easily turn.
COOPER: And David, it also gets out of the way in time for the next scene and debate so that it's not even really a question anymore as it was kicking off the Fox News debate. The fact David that the RNC is now so clearly moved to keep Trump inside the GOP tent with his pledge, going forward if Trump says something controversial, can the party distance itself and expect to keep his loyalty?
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Oh, I think so. And I disagree with the notion about that he's -- he could break this pledge. It's not legally binded for sure but it's politically binding. You can't take a pledge like this in front of the whole country and then tear it up and throw it away. You'll destroy your campaign the instance you do that. You know, people don't want to elect a president who's going to be jumping around from one going to the next. So he's going to respect this pledge, unless there's extraordinary circumstance and -- which is just fine.
[21:05:11] As to, I think where the Republicans are, this is a huge breakthrough for Republicans. The Republicans ought to be thinking Ryan Priebus for negotiating this because I -- they sort of bridled the horse now. They've -- They've had this wild stallion out there, and he finally got a bylaw, I mean he's going to have to start playing more by the rules and being a little more conventional, but one thing we know for sure tonight Anderson is, Trump is not in this for show. He seems to win.
COOPER: Yeah. And certainly his way, you know, he's out in front of the poll. Dana, Trump went after Rick Perry today essentially saying he is getting out of the race...
BASH: Which is not true.
COOPER: ... that he -- right. Rick Perry came out and saying...
COOPER: ... it's not the case. Rick Perry said, I mean I think he misquote, he sort of use this old saying and he said it wrong. He said "A broken clock is right once a day." Technically, a broken clock would be...
BASH: Twice a day.
COOPER: ... correct twice a day. Hut he denies he is getting out of the race, but he's been having a lot of trouble.
BASH: Oh, absolutely...
COOPER: Couple paying staff and polls.
BASH: He stopped paying staff...
BASH: ... and those who he asked to remain on his volunteers, many of them are jumping ship to other campaigns, one in New Hampshire is going to John Kasick. In Iowa actually to Trump which really hits -- hit them hard, because they're -- you know, he's really considering a Donald Trump his nemesis. So yeah, I mean look, Donald Trump takes credit for Rick Perry's demise. I certainly think that he helped, but Rick Perry just had a lot of trouble getting off the starting block from the get go because people remember what happened in 2012, we didn't have the greatest campaign and there's so many people running in his lane in the Republican field. One of the quick thing I want to say though, I have to disagree with David, because I think that in a conventional world, which we are all used to living in, it would be the end of Donald Trump's, you know, campaign if he did tear this up eventually, but this is not a conventional...
BASH: ... world.
COOPER: There's been a lot things that people said...
COOPER: ... this would be the end of Donald Trump's campaign...
BASH: And he wouldn't be doing it necessarily...
COOPER: ... and it's only God's greater height.
BASH: ... clearly to say I'm going to be president. It's to say, I'm going to be a spoiler because something happened fill in the blank that really made them angry at the Republicans.
COOPER: Robert, I want to play some of the Jeb Bush had lay today in New Hampshire and referencing Trump, let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH, (R), 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm going to push back when he says things that are ugly that I think will damage our brand, damage our ability to be successful. I'm sure as hell -- when he attacks me personally or disparages my family, you're damn right I'm going to fight back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I mean clearly, Bush thinks he has to push back harder or thinks he has to say that he's going to push back harder on Trump. So far, it's not working. I mean, look at the latest poll numbers, his numbers are going in reverse in the general election.
COSTA: The Bush-Trump battle is the defining battle right now in the Republican race. I spoke with Danny Diaz, Bush's campaign manager. He said Bush's full strategy is to go after Trump, try to deflate Trump, frame him as a liberal. In response Trump is taking his loyalty pledge with the Republican party. At the same time, Bush is trying to show some fire for these donors and activists that like him but want to see him as a warrior against Trump.
COOPER: It's hard though David to show fire against Trump. I mean, Trump can basically out fire anybody. I mean, he's got more -- you know, I mean he...
GORDON: Yeah. COOPER: ... and he also -- what's really interesting about a lot of his attacks, he attacks people on things that in past years or others consider their greatest strength, that Jeb Bush can speak Spanish that, you know, John McCain's war record.
COOPER: He goes after the things that seem to be unimpeachable and yet he makes them.
GORDON: I agree. I just want -- I think one of the most interesting things about this race has been we've all underestimated how sort of smart politically Trump really is. I mean he -- I think he's been very shrewd. He's out thought the opposition most of the way along the way here and he has found those, you know, there are certain people -- Lyndon Johnson could do that as president. He knew where somebody's vulnerability was and he can go after, I mean grab him, you know. A negotiator can often do that, which -- and Trump has spent a lot of time negotiating as you know.
But this whole thing his used against Jeb Bush about low energy, that stuck to Bush and it's may -- and I think one of the reasons he's fighting back, he's under a lot of pressure from his own supporters. You got to fight back. You've got to turn this into a two-man race. You got to be -- it's got to be Jeb versus Trump, and you can win that. Carson throws a monkey range into the calculation, doesn't he?
COOPER: Yeah. Well, Dana, I mean even Jeb Bush in that bite saying, you know, damn right...
COOPER: ... I'm going to fight back, you think how would Donald Trump say that and he is still -- Trump will probably still say he's low energy.
BASH: Oh absolutely, because Trump will probably say that's Jeb Bush trying to prove Donald Trump wrong and, you know what Trump's right about that.
The whole point of what Jeb Bush has been trying to do since Monday, all week long, is not only go after Donald Trump as not a conservative, a Democrat in disguise, but show that he -- it's not about Donald Trump, it's about him.
[21:10:05] He's got fight in him, he's got a backbone, he can really, you know, sort of take off the gloves and do what he needs to do, that's what -- as Bob was saying, that's what his donors want, that's what his supporters want and so what sort of a double whammy for him, he can show that and also be back against Trump.
COOPER: David, Robert, Dana, stick around. We're going to have more with them coming up. With Ben Carson jumping 13 points in the second place in new polling. We're taking a look at the support he's quietly gathering in the controversial issues he's spoken about. It may not be as loud as Trump, but his rhetoric can be, well, you'll see ahead. Also coming up next, also a county clerk in Kentucky apparently would rather go to jail than issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, the latest ahead.
COOPER: Oh while, Donald Trump has been grabbing much of the attention, Ben Carson has been quietly gaining support in his bid for the Republican presidential nomination. As we mentioned, tonight he jumped 13 points in recent national polling and it's trailing Trump by only 12 percentage points.
And while Trump is making a name for himself and very vocal and very poll rising, Carson is taking a different approach. He has it made some statements on controversial topics. He's just done it in a much softer voice. Tom Foreman has more.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Ben Carson often appears as the quiet candidate, standing on his medical not political experience.
BEN CARSON, (R), 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm the only one that separate Siamese twins, the only...
[21:15:00] FOREMAN: But Carson who has never held an elected office has risen to prominence as a soft spoken fire brand of conservatism, once defining marriage as between a man and a woman.
CARSON: And no group be they gays, be they NAMBLA, be the people who believe in bestiality -- it doesn't matter what they are. They don't get to change the definition.
FOREMAN: Attacking the Affordable Care Act.
CARSON: Obamacare is really I think the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery.
FOREMAN: Demeaning Democrats who support the President.
CARSON: Think about Nazi Germany. Most of those people did not believe in what Hitler was doing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yup.
CARSON: But did they speak up?
FOREMAN: Carson has occasionally apologized for his words, but not his beliefs, which are energizing Republicans. His rallies are huge, his poll number is surging and GOP voters find him extremely likable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He thinks like the only sensible person and yet he is kind and compassionate. He's not screaming and yelling.
FOREMAN: But Carson can hit hard. For example, suggesting the late founder of Planned Parenthood wanted more birth control to limit the black population.
CARSON: She was not particularly enamored with black people.
FOREMAN: Carson routinely replies personally to his followers on Facebook explaining his plans for better policing, a radical rebuilding of veterans care and a flat income tax modeled after Biblical tithing. If God thinks it is fair, then it is good enough for me.
That talk has kindled such passion among his followers that even though Carson largely relies on small donors, his warchest is growing. Enough to win? Who knows?
Bur frankly many political analysts did not think he could raise enough money to make it this far. Tom Foreman, CNN Washington.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, joining me again CNN senior political analyst and former presidential advisor David Gergen, Washington Post national reporter -- political reporter Robert Costa and CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash.
It's interesting, I mean, Ben Carson is such an interesting candidate, a soft spoken guy, clearly very conservative beliefs and the combination seems to be working for him.
BASH: It does. You know, it sort of helps answer the question about Donald Trump, right? You wonder, is it just that Donald Trump isn't outsider, is that he tells it like it is and he's not politically correct and he's bombastic. Well, the answer is for the most part, it's the outsider.
There's a new poll today, 67 percent of Republican voters say that they want somebody who has no experience in Washington. That's what it is. So he is in some ways very much like Donald Trump and that he could play the outsider, but he's the anti-Trump and that he is soft spoken.
Even Trump says, he's just so nice. He didn't even attack him because he's so nice.
COOPER: Well, I mean, Robert, I mean as much as people said like Donald Trump and Ben Carson are both anti-establishment candidates, they are extremely different in the tone and delivery. Obviously, there's a common thread, something that's appearing to large numbers of voters.
COSTA: There is a common thread, but not when it comes to temperament. When I'd been in Iowa and I've seen these voters respond to Carson, it's because they don't like Trump's temperament. They're looking for someone who has a cadence. A lot of these people are evangelical Christians. They see Carson as someone with almost a preacher-like quality, comes from the private sector, a political outsider. It's resonating with the different kind of coalition than Trump's, but certainly similar in its ideology. COOPER: David, I mean, does Ben Carson have the infrastructure? Does
he have the capabilities of making through this marathon?
GERGEN: That's a really good question. He does not now, Anderson. He's been, you know, in Iowa hard, doing very well there. I've known Ben Carson for about a dozen years. We served on a university board together and I can tell you, I've watched him inspire audience after audience mostly with this life story. I mean, this is man who came up from poverty and became a pediatric neurosurgeon, you know, who separating Siamese twins in their heads, it was such a remarkable story.
And he was told all his life, "You can't do this. You can't go to college. You're not good enough. You're not good enough to go to medical school." And he defied all those experts so he comes into this race as a man who's faced enormous odds all his life and yet he's succeeded. And I think that gives him a lot of inner confidence when he communicates, how he's emotionally at peace with himself. You know, some of the views have become, I would argue, a little bizarre, but the person, Ben Carson is a very attractive individual.
COOPER: Dana, I mean, it's interesting Donald Trump has had the opportunity to go after Ben Carson. He has not and doesn't show any sign really of planning to do that.
BASH: Unless Ben Carson goes after him.
COOPER: Would you -- by nature doesn't seem like Ben Carson...
BASH: Doesn't seem like it's going to happen.
[21:20:00] Or another potential scenario is that Ben Carson surpasses Donald Trump in polls across the board. In this new poll, we were talking about Donald Trump beats all of his Republican contenders except Ben Carson. If that continues, it's hard to see Donald Trump who's so incredibly competitive not going after Carson.
COOPER: And I guess the question is then how would he go after Carson. There's a variety of ways I guess to do it in terms of bombasticness of it if that's the correct word.
COOPER: Robert, in terms of Carson's campaigns infrastructure, I mean, I asked David about it, do you think he could compete for the long haul at this point?
COSTA: At this point, it's unclear. Earlier in the year, Carson moved many people from this campaign to a super pack. His infrastructure at the moment is pretty slim. It's a shoestring campaign. In terms of its operation, it has a lot of grassroots support, volunteers in these early state. But Carson has to do perhaps as if he does get momentum eventually build up that infrastructure. But for now, he's running on media attention and grassroots fervor.
COOPER: Robert, it's good to have you on. Robert Costa, David Gergen as well, Dana Bash as well. Thank you.
BASH: Thank you.
COSTA: Thank you.
COOPER: Coming up next, tonight, investigators in Illinois say they may have significant new evidence of the killing of a popular police lieutenant, latest ahead.
[21:25:14] COOPER: In Northern Illinois, investigators say a video from a home security system may contain what they say is significant evidence in the killing of a popular police lieutenant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CMDR. GEORGE FILENKO, LAKE COUNTY MAJOR CRIMES TASK FORCE: We have retrieved as late as last night what we believe to be some significant video. That's been turned over to the Department of Homeland Security for processing and I'm expecting some results from that video as late as this evening.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: We'll bring you any details about that video as soon as we get them.
Today, a source told CNN that the slain officer's gun was recovered at the crime scene. It' had been fired the morning he was killed. It's not clear if who fired it. The murder obviously shaken the community of Fox Lake and sparked a manhunt that is challenging as they come. Ryan Young reports.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Days after the murder of Police Officer Lieutenant Joe Gliniewicz, few clues have emerged in what's become an intense statewide manhunt.
This street here in Fox Lake is a mix between commercial and industrial businesses. And this may have been the last road that Officer Gliniewicz drove down that fateful morning.
So, you can see the gravel road and the barricade left behind by police, but we don't have the details about why the officer got out of his car and approached the three men. He did give a description, two white men and one black man. But what happened next and where did the men take off to?
There are plenty of questions surrounding those few minutes in between the time Officer Gliniewicz radio the dispatch and the arrival of backup then this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Assist officer down. The two subjects were a male white and a male black last seen running towards the swamp, officer wasn't answering. I just checked.
YOUNG: Officers responding tried to quickly set up a perimeter.
NICOLE LUCAS, FOX LAKE RESIDENT: The officer told us, they came to the door again and they said, "Lock all your doors because we think they're in the woods."
YOUNG: And part of what made this search so very difficult is just a half a mile away from what that shooting happened, you can see all the woods here. In fact, police spent a lot of time concentrating on this area to try to make sure someone wasn't trying to slip out using this wood line, but very close, residential area is just like this one. It had people in the inside, very worried for their safety.
KRISTI KING, FOX LAKE RESIDENT: We love this area. We like being in the private area back here and have something like this happen. I mean, it's literally right across there that it happened and, you know, it is. It's scary.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wetland areas and everything, forest preserve.
YOUNG: By air, you can see what officers were dealing with. You can see what's known as a chain of lakes that wrapped this community, marshland and inlets that bleed into other waterways with homes covered by dense tree lines, also many homes here are not occupied during the week.
Law enforcement looking for three suspects dealing with wood line and marshland and then this, the idea that the suspects could ran up to the train tracks and take off down this path and try to get away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Ryan Young joins us now from Fox Lake, what's the situation there now? I mean, is there still an active search going on at this hour?
YOUNG: There is active search, but it's just different. It's transformed. In fact, you don't really see it in terms of the concentration of people. We do know there's a hundred investigators working on this. In fact, two investigators just dealing with tip line when people call in.
COOPER: Ryan, I appreciate the reporting. Joining me now is CNN law enforcement analyst and retired NYPD Detective Harry Houck, also Dan Bangino, a former NYPD Officer and who was also former secret service agent.
Harry, I mean as the days go on and there aren't new developments, although there is this home security system which may have some sort of a video that's useful to law enforcement. How much more difficult does it become to find these suspects as the days pass?
HARRY HOUCK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, you know, believe it or not Anderson, there's still a lot more detectives can do to try and identify these guys. We had that video. Hopefully, the two whites and the black man who's on the video are our perpetrators. They most likely are because the chances are those are.
The second thing is that this weapon that was recovered, the officer's weapon that was recovered was touched by the perpetrators, meaning what? All right, can we get a print off the gun? On T.V., that happens a lot, but in real life, it doesn't happen that often. But we might get DNA, is there sweat, is there blood, right? That's very important.
Also, the bullet that was taken from the officer. Now did that bullet come from the officer's gun or one of the perpetrator's gun? If it came from the perpetrator's gun, we can put that bullet to IBIS, which is called the Integrated Ballistic Identification System by the ATF and see if that weapon was used in other crime earlier and that information was put into that IBIS system. Then that would be now the lead for law enforcement.
COOPER: Dan, are you surprised that investigators still don't have more information about who these suspects are, even really what they look like?
[21:30:00] DAN BANGINO, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: Yeah. I am a bit surprised. And I'm wondering if they're not intentionally holding back some of that information from the media for the purposes of not giving away, you know, some of their information. You know, they're holding their cards so close to the chest. It's certainly possible but Anderson, as time goes on here, time is law enforcements enemy in this case.
You know, in the secret service, variability was our friend. You know we did motorcade routes. We used to call it the deadly diamond. Whereas when you got to the middle of the motorcade route away from the airport in the arrival side, there was a lot of variability and no one would know where we were going to go.
Well, variability is the enemy right now in a drag net type search like this because as time goes on, the potential options for these perpetrators to take whether it be the lake, the marsh, hiding out in the residents, those options create variability and options and there's no possible way to swamp the area with enough manpower over an extended period of time to cut off those options from these guys.
COOPER: Harry, if you're searching for suspects, do you -- I mean, if there's three people together, does that actually make it somewhat easier because there is more -- I mean to Dan's point about variable, there's more variables. There could be deception among the groups. With three people, you have more chance that one of them is going to reach out to somebody and maybe that person will drop it on (inaudible) is -- having more suspects who work together, is that helpful?
HOUCK: Well, it'd be a lot easier for all three of them to stay together because, you know, we've got two white males and a black male. It should be easily discernible by people to be able to call in and give police officers tips no matter who they are. The fact is if they split up, it's going to get a lot harder for our law enforcement. But it tends to be that, you know, they don't split up as -- that often because they like to stay together. They want to be in trouble together and they feel like they are alone and they split up, it'd be more easier in their minds that they're going to be captured. So they need that support system of the other two.
COOPER: Oh Harry Houck, Dan Bongino, I appreciate you guys being on. Let's hope they find these suspects quickly.
Just ahead, maybe development in the standoff that's captured the national spotlight. A Kentucky county clerk is in jail tonight after refusing for months to issue same-sex marriage licenses. She says she's following God's law.
[21:36:08] COOPER: In Kentucky, a county clerk is behind bars tonight held in contempt by a judge. Kim Davis is her name. She says her religious beliefs prevent her from issuing same-sex marriage licenses. In her eyes, God's law trumps the Supreme Court. She's refused to issue any marriage licenses to gay or straight couples since the Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage. Today, her refusal landed her in court where she dug in her heels. Alexandra Field has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why are you not...
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In one Kentucky County, same-sex couples being denied marriage licenses.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why are you not petitioning marriage licenses today?
KIM DAVIS: Because I'm not...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Under what authority...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who's authority?
K. DAVIS: Under God's authority.
FIELD: Tonight, the clerk who is refusing to issue those licenses ordered to jail because of it. A federal court judge holding her in contempt of court. A decision met by wild cheers from marriage equality advocates. The same ruling igniting equal passions from those who back the Rowan County clerk.
REGGIE DICKERSON, SUPPORTER OF KIM DAVIS: I support Kim Davis. I think you're going to see God's people rise up like they never have before and I think her going to jail, I think they just woke up a great sleep in there.
FIELD: Kim Davis was tearful on the stand testifying that her religious beliefs and her conscience make her unable to follow an August 12th order from the same court to issue the licenses in accordance with the Supreme Court's historic marriage equality ruling earlier this summer. Davis is currently appealing the order to issue the licenses in a higher court.
In an earlier statement, Davis who's been divorced three times said, "To me this has never been a gay or lesbian issue. It's about marriage and God's Word. It's a matter of religious liberty, which is protected under the First Amendment." Well, considering whether to charge Davis with contempt, the court rejected the argument that she was actually unable or physically unable to comply with the court's order to issue the licenses.
Judge David Bunning saying, "Our system of justice requires citizens and elected officials to follow the orders of the court."
Earlier this week, the Supreme Court of the United States denied the petition from Davis to enable her to refuse to issue licenses while the appeals process continues. Despite that, her office continued to refuse to license couples.
April Miller testified she'd been barred three times by Davis from receiving a license to marry her partner of 11 years before the judge or that Davis taken into custody by the US marshals.
LAURA LANDENWICH, PLAINTFF'S ATTORNEY: We did not ask the court to imprison Ms. Davis. That was not the sanction that we thought and I think it is unfortunate that she is there, but the judge did what he felt was necessary in order to gain compliance.
FIELD: Five of Davis' six deputy clerks all called into the court room, told the judge they would comply with the order to issue the licenses but Davis' attorney couldn't promise she wouldn't interfere with the process, meaning she chooses to stay behind bars.
MATTHEW STAVER, FOUNDER LIBERTY COUNCIL: Four and a half years ago, her life was changed and her sins were forgiven and that's one of the reasons, that is the reason why her conscience is so strong. She loves her lord, she loves God and she can't disobey her conscience or be disobedient and that really is what makes Kim Davis tick.
FIELD: Alexandra Field, CNN Ashland, Kentucky.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Oh just be clear, Kim Davis is an elected official. Today, the judge pointed out that she took an ought when she became a county clerk. Joining me now is Jonathan Turley, a law professor in George Washington University. Professor thanks for being with us.
I mean, the clerk, she's claiming it's her First Amendment right to refuse these licenses, is it?
JONATHAN TURLEY, PROFESSOR OF LAW, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: No, I'm afraid it's not and that's not a close question. You know, the Supreme Court in 2006, I handed down a case called Garcetti, which dealt with this very issue of the first amendment right of public of employees. But even before Garcetti, there was no basis for public official to say that she could impose her religious views on whether she would carry out her duties with regard to citizens.
[21:40:08] Citizens don't have to wonder, is this person who has to give me a license or a permit going to approve of me for religious reasons . That's just not something that our system of law tolerates.
COOPER: Right, in this Garcetti ruling, the Supreme Court said and I quote, let me make sure I get it right, "When a citizen enters government service, the citizen by necessity must accept certain limitations on his or her freedom."
TURLEY: That's right and you know, we -- there's always in history these noble acts of defiance. It is a noble act to stand for your beliefs, but then nobility is lost when you are insisting that you can impose your beliefs on others and to use a public office to do that and we saw that in the civil rights movement.
You had a noble act to defiance with Martin Luther King in places like Selma refusing as a citizen to yield -- to abuse of governmental authority. And then you had George Wallace in Alabama defying federal law to try to keep individuals from being treated equally. They're both acts of defiance. They're both acts based on personal beliefs. But what Wallace did was wrong and that's why he was vilified.
COOPER: It would have been interesting if, I mean, in one of the several times that this woman has been divorced and remarried, a county clerk had to said to her, I don't believe in giving a marriage license to somebody who's been divorced. I mean...
TURLEY: No, I think that they -- the point is a fair one that people that are supporting Ms. Davis have to wonder about the next case. What happens if the clerk also follows the word of God, but not your god. What if the god's name is Allah. What if the god's name Yahweh, will you feel the same then or is it only if the clerk agrees with your view.
I have a piece in Washington Post coming out that talks about this, that people of religious faith are concerned that they're going to be targeted with these new rulings, that they're free speech will be taken away. What Ms. Davis is suggesting is the very threat that they fear that a government official could look at them and say, "I'm not going to help you because I don't agree with who you are."
COOPER: Right, and to your point it could be a government official who's Muslim and were the same people who are arguing now in support of this woman, the argument in support of a Muslim employee to come up with some reason not to issue a license or whatever it may be.
TURLEY: That's right. When we talk about free exercise of religion, the most important thing to protect religion in our country is for the government to be neutral. If the government is a neutral, if county clerks can say, "I'm going to perform this ministerial act but before I do that, I'm going to make sure that I agree with who you are or what you're asking to be done." You don't have to go from office to office to find the county clerk
that doesn't have a personal opposition, moral opposition to who you are if you otherwise qualify under the law.
COOPER: There is also a great division in this country of resigning when you don't believe you can carry out your duties appropriately. I mean, it used to be in the past. A lot of people seem to do that and they would make a stand and simply resign. They can do it publicly, they can issue a, you know, a statement. She can actually be fired and clearly she is not willing to resign and not willing to let other people in the office issue this marriage license.
TURLEY: It's actually a very curious problem under the state law, because the state law says that the county clerks signatures at the bottom of these licenses and if she's not signing, there is a question about the status of these marriages. She is also elected, which means she would have to be impeached, which means she'd have to go before the legislature, which is not meeting right now and even if they were meeting, I'm not so sure politically that a lot of those people would actually impeach her.
COOPER: Yeah, and they're not even suppose to meet until January is my understanding. Professor Turley, it's a fascinating discussion, I appreciate you being with us. We'll continue to follow it.
Up next, taking the air out of Deflategate, at least for now, a judge tosses Tom Brady's four game suspensions. The NFL isn't taking it -- isn't taking a knee and calling it quit. Rachel Nichols explains what's left in the league's legal playbook and why the saga just want to end.
[21:48:36] COOPER: Doing on Patriots fans are celebrating tonight what many called their first win and the season hasn't even started, the federal judge has tossed Tom Brady's four game suspension over so- called the Deflategate, this means a start quarterback and suit up for the season opener one week from tonight. That the judge issue the 40- page opinion calling the NFL's actions "fundamentally unfair". CNN sports anchor, Rachel Nichols join me.
So Patriots fans are viewing this as a total exoneration for Tom Brady, is it?
RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Not exactly. Look, this is not about did Tom Brady deflate footballs or not deflate footballs. The judge didn't rule on that. Instead he was ruling on did Roger Goodell on the NFL follow the correct process in trying to investigate and punish Tom Brady. And the judge came back and said, in no uncertain terms Anderson that Goodell abused his power in this situation.
He pointed to a bunch of reasons, withholding witnesses from the appeal, in effect changing the goal line to use a football analogy on Brady by saying the charges escalated without any new evidence and the biggest thing was there's other players who have been possibly involved in ball handling type of schemes before the NFL puts it and not no punishment.
COOPER: And for Goodell, I mean this is the kind of yet another blow to the way he's handled punishment.
NICHOLS: Look, these are five court cases around now that the NFL has lost. If this was a coach that had own five record, we just sit here talking about is he in the hot seat.
The thing about Roger Goodell though is that as embarrassing as this is for the league as many millions of football fans are upset today, there's only 32 people that matter.
[21:50:07] COOPER: The owner.
NICHOLS: Those 32 owners. Now, Robert Kraft, the Patriots owner, not happy with him obviously, but the other 31 owners, many of them have come out in support of Roger Goodell. So while he is not exactly bursting with authority at the moment, he's job is not in trouble.
COOPER: Is this done?
NICHOLS: No, it is not done. The NFL has filed an appeal of this judgment. So this could now take anywhere from six months to another two or three years. What's interesting though is Tom Brady isn't going to play this whole time. So you have this great scenario coming up next Thursday. It's the NFL season opener, big pageantry. Originally until today, Tom Brady was not going to be allowed in the building. The Super Bowl Champions were going to raise their banner without their star quarterback allowed to even be on the premises. Now that's one, Anderson. Roger Goodell who won't be in the building.
COOPER: Is that right.
NICHOLS: Tom Brady is going to be on the field celebrating. Roger Goodell has come out in a statement and said that he will not be at the game because he doesn't want to distract from the ceremony. I have to think it has something to do with the Patriots fans who might be vocal to him in that moment, but it is a huge swing of events. Tom Brady now going to be there, Roger Goodell now not.
COOPER: Fascinating. Rachel Nichols, thanks.
NICHOLS: Thank you.
COOPER: As we mentioned, Tom Brady in the Patriots take the field a week from tonight in the NFL season opener, but Rachel's Pro Football Preview special, co-hosted by Hall of Famer Quarterback Dan Marino airs this Sunday at 3:30 p.m. eastern. Guests include Peyton Manning and Seattle Seahawks Coach Pete Carroll.
Up next, something you might not expect, what Donald Trump has to say about Kanye West.
[21:55:28] COOPER: Well you may have seen Kanye West announced that he is running for president in 2020, that's what he said during MTV's Video Music Awards. West has a (inaudible) for obviously grabbing headlines, much like the current Republican front runner, Donald Trump and today, the two almost met when Trump was asked for his thoughts on Kanye West.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Kanye West, you know what, I'll never say bad about him. You know why? Because he loves Trump. He loves Trump. He goes around saying Trump is my all time hero, he says it to everybody. So Kanye West, I love him, now maybe in a few years, I have to run against him, I don't know so I'll take that back. But you know what, he's been so nice to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Rap and presidential politics together at last, although you couldn't say it's just further proof of how hip hop is influenced or I say hip hop, did I just say that? Hip hop, hip hop, shows you how cool I am. Influenced pop culture and culture in general in the United States and beyond. I've been on for two hours, right? In just a few minutes, the top of the hour CNN Films presents "Fresh Dressed", director Sacha Jenkins look at how hip hop has made its mark in the global fashion industry, so it kind of a fascinating look take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KANYE WEST, RAPPER: Everything comes down the class, in class conversation is bigger than a race conversation. So a class is like I'm hot class and that's what those brands are Louis, Gucci all that and that's part of the reason why they're very skeptical about, you know, working with musicians or rappers because we're considered to be lower class than designers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The organized industry of fashion in, you know, America that I could speak to, it suffers from a bad identity. Wants to pair it what's happening in Europe, right? It has a self-loathing atmosphere where we're never as good as American designers as the French or the, you know, the Europeans. Why are we waiting for external approval from this gatekeeper, like...
PHARRELL WILLIAMS, RAPPER: The legend brands love us. I mean, all the ones that I talk to, they love us. They don't just walk up to me and talk to me about me. I think I spend more time in folks who run fashion houses and all the entire people there like talking about I -- what they love about our industry and the people they love.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lately a lot of people say oh yeah, you know, like, you know, you have hip hop around and that would be representative people, that they love you and they supported you, always come to your show, since many years. For me it is inspiring because, you know, these kids I mean they're really -- they're experimental. They don't come out and I like people that's experimental and I like people that are taking risk.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: Well, joining me now is cultural critic and writer Michaela Angela Davis. It is really fascinating how what was once considered, I guess sort of, urban fashion, the Bronx, has really become global and been embraced by fashion houses around the world.
MICHAELA ANGELA DAVIS, CULTURAL CRITIC: Yeah it is youth culture.
M. DAVIS: It's youth fashion. What was very, you know, kind of singular, radical, black, underground style is now global style. You go anywhere in the world and they're wearing kind of the iconic, you know, jeans, T-shirts, baseball cap. There are certain things that we have -- that hip hop has made iconic.
M. DAVIS: And I say we because I really identify as someone coming from hip hop culture. I was the fashion director...
M. DAVIS: ... at Vibe. I was the founding fashion director of Vibe, so when this film -- the heart of this film is we were right there and what was so fascinating...
COOPER: This was in the '90s?
M. DAVIS: ... in the '90s...
M. DAVIS: ... I mean that could be considered the height, I mean hip hop is...
M. DAVIS: ... from the '70s but, but we were defining our own time in real time, very much like you can say about Rolling Stone...
M. DAVIS: ... and people who were of rock culture would define, but hip hop culture, unlike rock culture has defined an economy, a style, a language, dance, music...
M. DAVIS: ... art, like it is a full on global culture. But the style is often left out when people talk about hip hop, they talk about scratching and rapping and breakdancing and graffiti. Style really is the fifth pillar of hip hop and so this film really lets you see that end effect -- then the fashion. This is I would say Anderson the most powerful American fashion movement.
COOPER: Yeah, the film is just about to start. I was telling my first concert Grandmaster Flash and Furious Five at The Roxy in New York, when I was in high school, yeah.
M. DAVIS: Just redeem that hip hop.
COOPER: Hip hop. Michaela Angela Davis, thank you so much. The CNN Film "Fresh Dressed", starts now.
M. DAVIS: Now.