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AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA
Donald Trump's Million Dollar Loan; Trump on the Attack Against Carson; WHO: Processed Meats, Red Meat Linked to Cancer; FBI Director: Crime on the Rise Due to "Ferguson Effect"; Driver Who Drove Into Oklahoma Parade Due in Court Today. Aired 11-11:30a ET
Aired October 26, 2015 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The Donald Trump story. His struggles from the streets with nothing but a million dollar loan from his father. How will the new comment play to the Republican crowd?
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: And a disturbing new warning about some of America's favorite foods. The World Health Organization suggesting that hot dogs, bacon, and probably red meat cause cancer. The backlash and what you need to know.
BERMAN: Crime is up because police are nervous, that from the head of the FBI. So, how will this new comment change policing in America?
BERMAN: Hello, everyone, I'm John Berman.
BOLDUAN: Hey, everyone, I'm Kate Bolduan. It is the million dollar question, or answer, rather, that could come back to bite Donald Trump. It came during a town hall event with voters in New Hampshire this morning.
BERMAN: Yes, Trump was trying to describe all the obstacles he has overcome in his life, all he has managed to accomplish, beating the odds with virtually nothing but his moxie, and a small million dollar loan from his father.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It has not been easy for me. And I started off in Brooklyn. My father gave me a small loan of a million dollars. I came into Manhattan and I had to pay him back and I had to pay him back with interest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Small loan of a million dollars from his father, just like the rest of us. This is a town hall event in Atkinson, New Hampshire. Our Joe Johns is there. Hey, Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John. Well, it is an interesting comment but this is not your typical presidential campaign, quite frankly. The one thing about Donald Trump is he's made it very clear he's very rich, he's very successful, and that is part of his argument for why he should be President of the United States. On the other hand, he was making the point that he started small and grew his business substantially over the years. So we'll see how all of that plays.
Meanwhile he was here in New Hampshire today talking to an audience, also speaking with Matt Lauer of NBC News, and talked about a variety of things before a couple of different crowds. And I think part of the thing you have to say at this stage is, while he is trailing in Iowa, he's also advancing very much, attacking Ben Carson on the issue of whether he's too low energy, questioning what a Seventh Day Adventist is. And he's doing that because he is trailing in Iowa. At same time, he's not acting like he's having any problem in the polls at all. He's pointing up the polls where he's doing very well and playing down the polls where he's doing poorly and attacking the media for the way the story is being covered, John and Kate.
BOLDUAN: In that regard, sounds just like a politician.
BERMAN: Which he swears he is not.
JOHNS: Exactly. We've heard that before.
BERMAN: Joe Johns in New Hampshire, thank you so much.
Let's bring in our analysts to talk about the situation right now. Doug Heye, former communications director for Eric Cantor, also the RNC. David Chalian, CNN's political director.
Guys, I want to get to the million dollar comment from Donald Trump in one second, but I want to start with what I was is probably the biggest news from the weekend. And that's Donald Trump. You know, we're used to whispers about religion in campaigns. You hear it sort of in the back rooms, people quietly hushed. Did you hear he's a dot, dot, dot? But Donald Trump during his speech just flat-out says I'm a Presbyterian. Ben Carson is not. What do you make of it?
Let's listen to that sound bite.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I'm Presbyterian. Boy, that's down the middle of the road, folks, in all fairness. I mean, Seventh Day Adventist I don't know about. I just don't know about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: "I don't know about. I just don't know about." Doug Heye, can you get away with saying that? Can you get away with just flat out questioning someone else's religion?
DOUG HEYE, FMR. DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF, MAJORITY LEADER ERIC CANTOR: You know, he's gotten away with pretty much everything he's wanted to thus far so maybe he can. I sure hope not. I hope that the comments that Ben Carson's made about Muslims are unacceptable. I'm still troubled by the comments that were made about Mitt Romney being Mormon. These kind of things don't belong in not only Republican politics but politics as a whole in this country. The things that we need to start moving past. Let's talk about issues, talk about things that really affect people who are hurting out there, looking for jobs, need to increase their wages, education, things like that.
BOLDUAN: David, on this note, I mean, he was asked -- he was asked about it, to answer for this, again, on Sunday and he said I'll apologize if I have something to apologize for. But Donald Trump says he didn't say anything wrong, he just said -- all I said is I don't know about it. I don't know about being a Seventh Day Adventist.
Now, on that note, though, he's trying to speak to those folks in Iowa. Are they going to listen to that message?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: No doubt about it. Some might call that parsing of language Clintonian that Donald Trump was doing this weekend.
[11:05:01] But you are right, Kate. He clearly -- whether or not he actually insulted the religion, he injected Ben Carson's religion deliberately onto the campaign trail and into the campaign dialogue this weekend, because he wants that as part of the conversation. He sees what we see in the polls, which is that evangelicals are contributing to this surge that Ben Carson is having in Iowa, who is now the undisputed clear front-runner in the kickoff state. That's where Ben Carson is and Donald Trump knows he's there because of the support among evangelicals, and wanted to throw this sort of into the conversation and see what happens with it.
BERMAN: On the subject of things that Donald Trump does, and probably does without any impunity, Doug, a little while ago we heard those comments in New Hampshire where Donald Trump said, you know, I managed to overcome all these obstacles with nothing but a small million dollar loan from my father. I remember when Mitt Romney got in all kind of trouble for making a $10,000 bet. This is like a factor of three, this is by exponentially more than $10,000, for Donald Trump. Do average voters care, though, since his wealth is part of his mystique?
HEYE: You know, my father bought me a full tank of gas and said, here, drive yourself to the state school. So it's a little bit different for I think average Americans out there. But ultimately, as long as we're talking about what Trump wants to talk, which is this larger noise, Trump does well. The reason he's hurting in Iowa right now, that he's fallen to Ben Carson, is because he sustained weeks of attacks on substantive issues on campaign ads. Instead of just getting the attention that he wants, he's gotten a lot of scrutiny. That's why he's fallen in the polls. I think Republican candidates would be smart to continue on this, focusing on substance, as we've talked a lot about here, and that's how you take Trump down. It's actually now taking hold in Iowa and it's working.
BOLDUAN: David, another candidate we heard from this weekend, Jeb Bush, who has called himself the joyful tortoise, he seems very frustrated. I don't know what kind of frustrated animal you want to put with it, but he was speaking out over the weekend and here's what he said It's getting a lot of attention. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If this election is about how we're going to fight to get nothing done, then I don't want any part of it. I got a lot of cool things that I could do other than sit around, being miserable, listening to people demonize me and me feeling compelled to demonize them. That is a joke. Elect Trump if you want that. .
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: That is a joke, vote for Trump if you want that. David?
CHALIAN: Kate, I know this may surprise you, John, and Doug, but sometimes politicians actually reveal something true in front of the cameras and on stage. And Jeb revealed his frustration there. There's no doubt about that. And I think this is probably the most significant moment of the weekend because I think we can see -- voters can see with their own eyes just how Trump is getting under Jeb Bush's skin, how he is not at all pleased with the way this process is going. And, remember, this comes on the heels of him restructuring his whole payroll, shedding a ton of his payroll, and as he huddles with his family and big donors in Houston to try to right this ship. You just see a candidate there who is in a position he never envisioned he would be in. And this is testing time for Jeb Bush. What does he do as he faces this is existential threat to his candidacy?
BOLDUAN: Doug, David, it's great to see you guys. Thank you.
HEYE: Anytime, thank you.
BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, new video of the raid that put U.S. forces face-to-face with ISIS See how the daring operation to rescue hostages all went down.
BERMAN: Plus, a potentially devastating PR blow for bacon. One of the leading health organizations on earth announces, flat out, bacon can cause cancer. That's just the beginning.
And very soon, the woman accused of plowing into a homecoming parade appears in court on murder charges. We will speak live with someone who saved his stepfather during all of this chaos.
BERMAN: So quite a headline from the World Health Organization. A new report that announces flat out bacon can cause cancer. And that's not all. Hot dog, sausages, red meat might be a problem, too.
BOLDUAN: A startling warning that is sure to face some backlash. So what does this all mean? Let's get the details. Let's bring in CNN's senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen and also joining us is Dr. Clifford Hudis, chief of breast medicine service at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center.
So, first, Elizabeth, to you. Lay out what the World Health Organization is saying there.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Kate, rarely are public health organizations this straightforward about something. They say, plain and simple, processed red meats are a carcinogen.
So let's take a look at exactly what they said. They said a 1.7 ounce of processed meat, that's about one hot dog, will increase your risk of cancer, of colon cancer 18 percent. Now, it's a small risk to begin with, but it would increase it 18 percent. They say when you look worldwide, processed meat is responsible for 34,000 cancer deaths.
Now, we got in touch with the folks in the meat industry. They said cancer is a complex diseases that even the best and brightest minds don't fully understand. No single food has been proven to cause or cure cancer. The available scientific evidence simply does not support a causal relationship between red or processed meat and any type of cancer.
BERMAN: S o, Dr. Hudis, what do you do with this? Does this mean no bacon, not ever? No hot dog, not ever? Or how much bacon can you eat? How many hot dogs can we have?
DR. CLIFFORD HUDIS, ONCOLOGIST: So I think we're coming at this question just a little from the wrong perspective. The question is why would we eat bacon or hot dogs?
BOLDUAN: Because it's delicious.
BERMAN: Because it tastes awesome.
MORROW: That's right. And that's the only reason. So many things we do come with some sort of risk, and this seems to come with a little risk, too -- elevated risk of colon cancer.
[11:15:00] I actually don't think this is that much news. We've known for years that high-fat diets, that obesity in general, are associated with higher rates of cancer, especially colon cancer and a few others, also heart disease and diabetes and so forth. So this is one more small negative to enjoying that particular kind of food. If you love it, you have to balance the risks and benefits. If you don't love it so much, no need to eat it.
BOLDUAN: That's a fascinating way of looking at it. But it still hurts to hear that bacon is going to kill me.
HUDIS: Well, it's not quite that it's going to kill you. The estimate for elevated risk that they provide is really 18 percent.
BERMAN: That sounds like one hot dog, 18 percent increase?
HUDIS: Right. But the thing is epidemialogic circles, we usually look for doubling of risk or more when we look at associations. Cigarettes, eight-fold increase in risk and so forth. Genes that cause cancer, 10 to 80-fold increases in risk. So, this is a very small negative. Something like maybe alcohol and esophageal cancer and so forth. So, I think that, unfortunately, in life, there's no free ride.
BERMAN: That's a good perspective right there.
BOLDUAN: You know, it does make me wonder though as we sit here and now we're talking about hot dogs, we're talking about red meat, we're talking about bacon, is everything that we eat have some linkage to cancer? It feels like we find.
HUDIS: Well, definitely not. There are healthier diets for sure. In general, a lower calorie diet, which is easiest to achieve with a low- fat diet, i.e., a diet without so much meat, is going to be healthier in many important ways -- heart disease, diabetes and so forth.
Remember, against this background, obesity is the fastest growing public health problem we face in the whole western world. And it's linked to high calorie foods. Meats tend to be in that category. So, I think we have to balance these risks very carefully.
BERMAN: You eat bacon?
HUDIS: Very rarely, but, boy, I lover it.
BERMAN: You eat red meat?
HUDIS: Very rarely.
BERMAN: But you do.
BOLDUAN: How is rare is -- What is your guidance?
HUDIS: Well, there's no hard guidance. You're asking me a personal question?
HUDIS: I will have a bite of a cheeseburger during the summer.
BERMAN: One a year? Unwilling to go there, Doc.
BERMAN: But thank you, Dr. Clifford Hudis. Thank you so much for being here.
At least we can have a little, right?
BOLDUAN: You can have one bite of a cheeseburger in the three months of summer, OK? Just so you know. Straight from the doctor's mouth.
Great to see you, Doctor. Thank you.
We have some breaking news out of Afghanistan now that we want to tell you about. A deadly 7.5 magnitude earthquake rattled Afghanistan this morning. Dozens are dead, including 12 school girls who were killed in a stampede as folks were trying to escape their school. In areas near Kabul, walls shook violently, things fell over, of course, and people were seen running into the streets in fear. The quake was so intense that it also could be felt in neighboring Pakistan and all the way into Northern India.
BERMAN: Tragedy on a whale-watching boat. At least five British nationals were killed and one person is missing after a popular whale- watching cruise sank off the waters of Western Canada. 21 people of the 27 people on board were rescued. Still, questions this morning about why the boat sank in the first place. Witnesses say the water was calm, but the boat might have been motoring fairly close to some rocks. The search continues today for that one person who remains missing.
BOLDUAN: Still ahead for us, crime is up partly because police are nervous. That is from the head of the FBI who points to what's been called the Ferguson Effect, on a rise in crime across America. Is he right? What else is he saying?
BERMAN: Plus a woman drives into a crowded homecoming parade, killing several people, including a 2-year-old child. We're going to speak live to a man who helped save his stepfather in the middle of all this chaos.
[11:22:48] BOLDUAN: Happening right now, a very strong statement coming from the head of the FBI. The director, James Comey, saying publicly that police are nervous, that the increased police scrutiny is -- that increased police scrutiny is partly to blame for a spike in violent crimes in the past year. It's being called the Ferguson Effect.
BERMAN: CNN justice reporter Evan Perez has the details.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPOTER: FBI director Jim Comey, he says that at least part of the reason there's a surge in crime in some cities around the country could be because some officers are holding back. Now, this is called the Ferguson Effect because increased scrutiny on police tactics is causing some officers to be reluctant to arrest suspects.
Now, he spoke at the University of Chicago on Friday and he tackled these issues about race and the effect on police.
JAMES COMEY, DIRECTOR, FBI: Far more people are being killed in some of America's cities than in many years. And let's be clear. Far more people of color are being killed in America cities this year. And it's not the cops doing the killing.
PEREZ: We should note that not all police chiefs believe their officers are holding back. There are some believe the rise in crime can be explained by the rise of synthetic drugs on the streets. Comey is speaking to a convention of police chiefs in Chicago and we'll hear more about what he has to say.
Evan Perez, CNN, Chicago.
BERMAN: All right, our thanks to Evan.
Now, just a short time from now, the woman behind the wheel of a car that plowed into a crowd at an Oklahoma State University homecoming parade, she is due in court. 25-year-old Adacia Chambers has been charged with four counts of second-degree murder. She was allegedly driving under the influence. The crash killed four people, including a 2-year-old child.
BOLDUAN: Our Nick Valencia is there in Stillwater, Oklahoma, following the very latest here.
So, Nick, obviously everyone is looking later today when this woman will be in court. What more are you learning?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kate. It's about 2:30 p.m. Eastern when Adacia Chambers is expected to make her first court appearance since being accused of using her car to crash into this homecoming parade at Stillwater, Oklahoma, on Saturday over the weekend. CNN did obtain some cell phone video from one of the spectators in that parade, and we should give you a discretion, some may find this to be very graphic video.
[10:25:00] But it shows the moment that Adacia Chambers plowed through an unmanned police motorcycle and proceeded into that packed crowd, the result of which left four people dead, nearly 50 people injured. Among the youngest victims, 2-year-old Nash Lucas. His father posting on Facebook over the weekend just saying, emotional, that he misses his little buddy.
Also some of those victims, Marv and Bonnie Stone, just an adored couple here, Marv Stone a prestigious professor at the Oklahoma State University here just up the road. I spoke to one of his family friends who was still very emotional. I'm sure you've said your prayers. What do you pray for in a time like this?
VALENCIA: I'm sure you've said your prayers. What do you pray for in a time like this?
PAUL WECKLER, FRIEND OF VICTIMS: Well, we prayed in church yesterday for all the people involved in this, for all the victims and their families, the people that are still in the hospital. We even prayed for the young lady in jail because she definitely needs help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VALENCIA: That just speaks to the emotion here among those. They're even praying for those accused of killing their friends.
Now, we did earlier catch up with the attorney for Adacia Chambers. He says he does not believe drugs or alcohol played a role in this, although his client is charged with driving under the influence. So police have not said what they suspect her of being under the influence of. He says mental health may have played a bigger role in all of this. He says that when asked about the accident, she did not appear to be remorseful, which to him was an indication that she is not in a proper state of mind. She's also charged with four counts of second-degree murder. Each of those counts carries up to ten years to life in prison. John, Kate?
BERMAN: All right, Nick Valencia for us in Stillwater. Thanks so much, Nick.
BOLDUAN: Thank you, Nick.
Joining us now, though, on the phone is Mark McNitt. His stepfather, Leo Schmitz, was one of the people hit in that crowd at the OSU parade. Mark was there with him, was standing right there with him. Mark, are you there?
MARK MCNITT, STEPFATHER INJURED IN OSU PARADE CRASH (on the phone): Yes, ma'am.
BOLDUAN: Thank you so much for getting on the phone with us. How is your stepfather doing today?
MCNITT: He's in critical condition at the OU Medical Center there in Oklahoma City. Not very stable. But he is alive.
BERMAN: Obviously, we're thinking about him and hoping for the best. You were in that crowd when the car sort of inexplicably plowed in. I read you said you were with your stepfather watching, and then all of a sudden you looked over and he was gone. What happened?
MCNITT: Right. You know, with everything that's going to be happening with the driver, we've been -- we're probably not going to get into too many details. But in a nutshell, we were all watching the parade. We were at the end of the parade route. We were facing south on Main Street. The street behind us was blocked off with barricades. There was a police motorcycle behind us. That was part -- just having a good time. My stepfather's next to me. We're standing with a lot of people that we know, talking.
And then just this gush of wind -- really first thing I noticed was a gush of wind and then an explosion. Really, the sound happened after this black thing flew through the crowd. And I -- I just assumed it was a motorcycle. I thought a motorcycle hit us. And then I looked to the right and my stepfather was gone and I couldn't find him. I couldn't find my wife, my mother.
And looking around, my mom started screaming. I could tell she was alive but she was hurt. Then I looked to my right, a lane or two over, and on the sidewalk was my stepfather. And I took a step and I realized I had gotten hit in the back of my leg but not bad. I managed to get over to him and started CPR and started working on him, helping him out.
BOLDUAN: Mark, when did it set in what had actually happened? I mean, it sounds like absolute chaos afterward and I think that's understandable. When did it set in for you?
MCNITT: yes, I knew immediately something -- somebody or something drove through the crowd. I mean, it -- it just -- there were people that, you know, bodies everywhere. Didn't know what it was. Didn't realize, you know, there was a car involved. I didn't see any of that. It just -- this black thing came through the crowd. Pieces of fiberglass, you know, everywhere. I knew almost immediately that something came through the crowd.
[11:30:02] I didn't look back to see anything, you know, for -- just for a few seconds you're in a daze. And I think a lot of people said it was like a bomb going off.