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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Rubio, Cruz Looking For Post-Debate Bounce; Awaiting Jeb Bush Town Hall in Iowa; The Two Sides of Donald Trump; U.S. Still Waiting For Access To Egypt Plane Wreckage; Officials Analyzing Sound on MetroJet's Black Box; Unarmed Man Tased While Cuffed Dies in Police Custody. Aired 7-8:00p ET
Aired November 11, 2015 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[19:00:08] ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: OUTFRONT next, Rubio and Cruz on the rise after their strong debate performances. Can Donald Trump and Ben Carson still lead the pack?
Plus, Metrojet 9268. Did the black box capture the sound, the proof of a bomb? How a split second of audio can solve the mystery. A special investigation.
And a black man dies in police custody after being tased repeatedly. Was it excessive force? You won't believe what you see. Let's go OUTFRONT.
And good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, rising stars, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz grabbing the headlines and heading the campaign trail today. Rubio sounding very much like a candidate trying to seize the moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to force the opportunity. Not just to save the American dream but to expand it to reach more people and change more lives than ever before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Ted Cruz sounding equally confident, turning from his Republican rivals and directing his fire at the Democrats.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How fantastic is it to have so many young, dynamic, charismatic candidates standing on that stage?
And what a contrast.
You know, I think the first democratic debate was Hillary and the chipotle clerk. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: But do they have what it takes to stop the front- runners? Donald Trump and Ben Carson.
Sunlen Serfaty begins our coverage OUTFRONT. She is with Marco Rubio in Columbia, South Carolina. And Sunlen, Rubio riding high today in his debate performance, was you know, by-and-large I think very fair to say, he got rave reviews.
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He did, Erin. And both Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz, they really registered strong debate performances for the second time in a row and posing threats to the current frontrunners who is Donald Trump and Ben Carson. So this certainly could set the stage for potentially a big Rubio versus Cruz battle ahead.
RUBIO: The time to act is now.
SERFATY (voice-over): Marco Rubio hitting the campaign trail today in Iowa. Fresh off another widely praised debate performance.
RUBIO: This election is not simply a choice between Republicans and Democrats. This election is a generational choice.
SERFATY: Among the Florida senator's standout moments, squaring off with Rand Paul on foreign policy.
RUBIO: I know that Rand is a committed isolationists, I'm not. I believe the world is a stronger and a better place for the United States with the strongest military power in the world.
SEN. RAND PAUL (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Marco, how is it conservative -- how is it conservative to add a trillion dollar expenditure for the federal government that you're not paying for? How is it conservative --
RUBIO: We can't even have an economy if we're not safe.
I believe the world is a safer -- no, no, I don't believe. I know that the world is a safer and better place when America is the strongest military power in the world.
SERFATY: Rubio also scoring points with his populist rhetoric.
RUBIO: For the life of me, I don't know why we have to stigmatize vocational education. Welders make more money than philosophers. We need more welders and less philosophers.
SERFATY: That statement earning him applause but not from the fact-checkers who role the claim false. Rubio is not the only senator to shine last night. Ted Cruz competing in the surging lane against Donald Trump and Ben Carson wasting little time going after the Washington establishment. RUBIO: Washington is fundamentally corrupt. There are more
words in the IRS code than there are in the Bible and not a one of them is as good.
SERFATY: The conservative firebrand also slamming critics who, his immigration position is too harsh.
RUBIO: The Democrats are laughing. Because if Republicans join Democrats as the party of amnesty, we will lose.
SERFATY: Cruz and Rubio eclipsing party front-runners Trump and Carson who took more of a do no harm approach last night.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We will have a wall. The wall will be built.
DR. BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What I do have a problem with is being lied about.
SERFATY: Could the GOP primary fight ultimately come down to Rubio and Cruz? Texas Senator recently told CNN's Jake Tapper it could happen.
RUBIO: Well, listen, I'm not sure it will come down to Marco and me. I like Marco. I respect him. He's a friend of mine. He's a great guy. There are a lot of political observers that saying that and I think that's certainly a plausible outcome.
SERFATY: And Ted Cruz last night giving a few big hints that he's already looking forward to that potential matchup between the two, really previewing some lines of attack that he's just lining up against Rubio when and if the rest of the field is winnowed down -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Sunlen, thank you very much. And you have rise last night in terms of the debate performance of both Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz. Meantime, the big question is, what about Jeb Bush? His town hall in Iowa is actually going to start at any moment. He'll be speaking live.
Athena Jones is live in Iowa. And Athena, does the Bush camp think that Jeb saved his candidacy last night or not?
[19:05:16] ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Erin. Well, Jeb Bush and his campaign feel he did well. We saw a very confident Governor Bush today. He was in good spirits. He said he thought he did well. He liked the moderators' questions. He liked to having the opportunity to spend a little more time answering those questions, delving a little bit more into policy. But he also said he's going to continue to get better. His good cheers was echoed by several campaigns staffers and Bush supporters I spoke to today and last night at a date watch party not far from where we are right now. They were all pleased with his performance. They said he's looking more comfortable on the debate stage, had no major stumbles. The campaign even put together a highlighting reel highlighting
some of what they see as his best moments like his attacks against Hillary Clinton and also his argument in response to Donald Trump that the U.S. needs to be a leader in the world and in the fight against ISIS. The campaign is also issuing a fundraising appeal asking reporters to donate after this debate performance to help keep the momentum going. And while Governor Bush said today the focus should really be on drawn contrast with Hillary Clinton, and he kept most of his fire on her last night, not so much like in his opponents, like Marco Rubio. He did resume his attack on Rubio's attendance record today in Iowa, though not mentioning him by name. He got bigger applause when he said people should show up to do the job they were hired for. For they should show up to work. This is something he singled as fair game.
JONES: So, we should hear more of that -- Erin.
BURNETT: Absolutely, going after Marco Rubio yet again today on the trail. Athena, thank you very much.
I want to go to Ana Navarro, Jeb Bush fundraiser and friend of Marco Rubio. Also with me, our chief political analyst Gloria Borger and radio host Ben Ferguson.
Ana, let me start with you. By many accounts, Rubio was the star last night. He's your friend. Your money though has been on Jeb Bush. They sent out. You just heard Athena reporting a fundraising e-mail today. Is it going to work? I mean, did Marco Rubio though just simply outshine Jeb Bush last night again?
ANA NAVARRO, JEB BUSH SUPPORTER AND FRIEND OF MARCO RUBIO: There is no doubt that Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz are incredible debaters. They are also senators. That's a lot of what U.S. senators do, spend their days debating on the floor of the U.S. Senate. And, you know, let me not pretend that Marco Rubio does not have sheer, raw political talent. You've heard me say it over and over again. He is a very, very talented political candidate. As it Ted Cruz. They are very smart, they think outside the box, quick on their feet, humorous and witty. And I think you'll see both of them shine yesterday. I also think that the expectations on both of them were very high. They have consistently delivered. And if they don't, it's going to be a huge issue. For Jeb, he had a --
BURNETT: All right. I hear you there, Ana. Now let's talk about Jeb.
NAVARRO: Jeb, look, I think Jeb gets the most improved award of the night. You know, I think he was 100 percent better than the last time where he absolutely sucked wind. And you saw me and you heard me say it many times on the air.
NAVARRO: He did what he had to do. I think he had a solid performance. I think he heard the criticism. I think he worked really hard the last ten days to improve. He finally understood that it's not only about policy. That it's also about performance and he went out there and he did it last night.
BEN FERGUSON, RADIO HOST, "THE BEN FERGUSON SHOW": We're not giving out trophies here in first grade for most improved player on the tee ball team. We're talking about the presidency of the United States of America and if the best talking points we have for Jeb Bush is that he got most improved over the last ten days, I think it really sums up his entire campaign. It's in trouble right now. These debates matter and people are looking at them and at some point I think we might be talking about Ana Navarro being former Bush supporter, current Marco Rubio supporter because Jeb Bush did not have a good night last night and he doesn't need to get most improved. He needs to actually win a debate and it doesn't look like he has the ability to do that at all.
NAVARRO: He doesn't need to win a debate, Ben.
FERGUSON: Sure, he does. He's done in the polls.
NAVARRO: Nobody expects Jeb to win the debate. If Jeb had won the debate, if Jeb had hit a homerun last night, that's all we would be talking about today. What he has earned himself is a shot to live another day to fight another day and he's going to continue doing it. There's no doubt that the debates are having a huge influence but there's more to campaign and winning than just that.
FERGUSON: I agree but he hasn't been able to get traction.
BURNETT: All right. Gloria, let's make Gloria the arbiter here. Gloria, can you win the nomination of the presidency if you can't win a debate?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. Well, can I remind everyone here that Barack Obama was not a terrific debater and remind everyone that there was a very crucial debate in the last presidential election against Mitt Romney where the President didn't seem to show up for the debate?
BURNETT: That's true.
BORGER: And, you know --
FERGUSON: But he came back.
BORGER: Well, he did. But Jeb Bush is not a natural attack dog. That's not his strength. I don't think he's ever going to be one of these folks out of the box like a jack-in-the-box on the debate stage because he would have to pretend to be something he is not. I think what we saw last night was somebody who was a little more focused, who was able to take it to Hillary Clinton, which he did over and over again, and that was his way of telling potential voters out there, that you know what, he might be electable. But I don't ever expect him to be a great debater.
[19:10:30] BURNETT: All right. So, let me show this moment, Ana. Let me show you. This is a moment from last night that's getting a lot of attention at a commercial break. So, we didn't all see this but, of course, the cameras were rolling so we're seeing it now. Rubio appears to walk over to Bush. Bush appears to shake his head. Rubio immediately turns around and goes over to Donald Trump. So, you know, people are saying, look, Bush didn't want to talk to his former protege there but Bush didn't go after him directly last night. He did though today on the trail, going after him again for his lack of experience. Why did Bush skip last night? Why didn't he go after Rubio? Was he worried he get slammed like last time?
NAVARRO: I think it was because the debate format really did not promote it or provoked it. It was not a debate form that provoke fights among the candidates. There were some --
BURNETT: It was not a debate, for lack of another word. I mean, it was more questions to each candidates.
NAVARRO: And let me tell you. About that little snippet that you just showed.
NAVARRO: I know these two guys very well. And I know when they don't like somebody, I can tell you I remember trying to get Jeb Bush under the same roof in the same, you know, sit code as Charlie Crist and that was really, really hard. When Jeb Bush really doesn't like somebody, you can tell a mile away and the same goes for Marco Rubio. Cubans aren't good at masking their emotions. So, you know, these guys are friends. They like each other.
NAVARRO: You know, this stuff can be weird. It can be tough. It can be awkward.
NAVARRO: But sorry to burst the metal bottle --
FERGUSON: Here's the thing.
BORGER: I don't think any of these people like each other. I mean --
BURNETT: OK. Yes, there we go.
BURNETT: Thank you for the b.s. meter. Yes.
FERGUSON: They don't like each other.
BORGER: Right. One thing that struck me, none of these guys like each other and they were all restraining themselves last night. One of the reasons I think that Jeb Bush did not attack Marco Rubio is that he's so bad at it and he failed at it so miserably last time that I don't think he wanted a do-over on it. So, you know, I think he decided not to. But all of these guys, I mean, Kasich calling Trump silly, if you'll recall, his immigration policy.
BORGER: You know, all the fight --
FERGUSON: We're getting down to the really big fighting moments of the campaign and that is why I think it's so shocking, honestly, last night that Jeb Bush did not throw a punch. I also think really he understands his own limitations now. You don't want to go toe-to- toe with Marco Rubio which is exactly the reason why Marco Rubio is surging and having a good debate after a good debate after a good debate. We're talking about Jeb Bush here having an average debate and that's somehow it gives you most improved. So, I don't get this way --
BORGER: Well, why not let Trump go after Marco Rubio for you which he didn't do last night but he's done on his Twitter account, right? But --
FERGUSON: But it's always easier to throw those punching outside the ring. I mean, look at Jeb Bush today, he was throwing punches out there at Rubio and throwing punches at Trump and everybody else because no one can counterattack.
NAVARRO: This was a different debate than we've seen so far. It was all about substance and policy and it really didn't, you know, didn't promote that kind of exchange.
FERGUSON: It should have played to Jeb Bush. It should have played to Jeb Bush. I mean, literally, if you look at --
NAVARRO: Which is why he did well.
FERGUSON: He did not and it should have.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you all very much.
Next, the Donald Trump of this debate. All right. This is the Donald Trump we have come to know.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Losers. We have losers.
They are the worst.
The worst I've ever seen. She got worse CEO in history.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That is not what we saw last night. We saw a kinder, gentler Donald Trump.
Plus, less than a second of noise from Metrojet 9268, is it enough though to say it was a bomb? You're going to hear for yourself in a special OUTFRONT report.
And disturbing new video of a black man tased by police repeatedly and then dying in the back of a police car. The story.
[19:17:30] BURNETT: Tonight, Donald Trump praising his performance in the latest Republican debate for president. But the Trump squared off against seven rivals for 2016 looked and sounded very different than the Trump who draws many thousands at campaign rallies across the nation.
Jeff Zeleny is OUTFRONT.
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Call it a tale of two Trumps. Last night, voters saw a softer, gentler Donald Trump. Perhaps a bit more respectful and serious. His post-debate recap offering something rare. A compliment.
TRUMP: I thought the moderators were elegant. I thought the questions were really, really on point.
ZELENY: And even print praise for his rivals. Even poking fun at himself.
TRUMP: I don't think anybody did poorly, really. I really don't. I mean -- normally I should say like, they were all terrible, everybody. Right?
ZELENY: Those remarks in stark contrast to months of relentless personal attacks on all of his rivals. Jeb Bush --
TRUMP: Bush is not going to get us to the promise land, folks, I tell you. This guy -- I don't want to say he's a stiff because that's too rude.
ZELENY: Marco Rubio --
TRUMP: Rubio, I've never seen a young guy sweat that much. No, I've never seen -- he's drinking water, water, water. I never saw anything like this with him with the water.
ZELENY: And Lindsey Graham.
TRUMP: Zero, zero. Do you know who we have that has a zero? Lindsey Graham.
ZELENY: Even going after Ben Carson, a man he once said was too nice to attack.
TRUMP: If you try and hit your mother over the head with a hammer, your poll numbers go up.
ZELENY: Hillary Clinton has her own view of Trump style.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think he's having the time of his life, you know, being up on that stage, saying whatever he wants to say.
ZELENY: And Clinton may be on to something. The stage may be the dividing line between the two Trumps. But is one of those Trumps presidential. Something that he all but acknowledged his two personas earlier today.
TRUMP: Yes. Well, I think maybe I have to do that, you know. Maybe that's the way I'm supposed to be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that debates only or on the campaign stage?
TRUMP: No, it's not doing speeches. Because I think people would be very disappointed if I was that way. But I think during a speech, it's different.
We have losers. We have people that don't have it. We have people that are morally corrupt. We have people that are selling this country down the drain.
ZELENY: So while there may be a tale of two Trumps, it's pretty clear which role he likes better and we're likely to see him sharpening those edges once again as he draws distinction with his rivals in campaigns more aggressively. But he did tell us today that tone is important and he added one thing. Maybe I'm learning something -- Erin.
BURNETT: Hmm. It is that. It's a bit more of a humble side of him perhaps that is winning some over.
OUTFRONT now, Katrina Pierson, the national spokesperson for the Trump campaign. And our political commentator S.E. Cupp.
All right. S.E., so you know, there's Donald making his case for why there's a tale of two Trumps sees a different strategy in the debates than he does in the campaign trail. Is it working, though? You say it was a nonfactor in the debate.
S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I think he would -- well, he might not acknowledge but I think most people would acknowledge that the debate is not where he does his best work. I think, you know, it's inarguable that when you watch him at the town halls, there's a lot more energy, he's a lot more effective. He swings harder and it's easier to land punches against people who are not physically in the room. And I think when he tried to land punches at last night's debate against Kasich, certainly against Carly Fiorina, they fell really flat and turned some people off and on policy, whether it was immigration or Putin, I think most of the other candidates got the better of him on those issues.
KATRINA PIERSON, TRUMP CAMPAIGN NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: Well, look, I think that Donald Trump is just Donald Trump. He is the same person every time, though he's a little more calm in these debates but he really didn't lose anybody. If you liked Donald Trump before last night, you liked him after last night. And even though -- and S.E. wants to call them punches. And he wasn't throwing punches, he wasn't attacking anybody. There were perfect opportunities for him to do that and he passed, Erin.
BURNETT: So, is this a new strategy? Was this his acknowledging Katrina that what S.E. says, which is debates may not be the best forum for him? Lay low and do the least damage as a strategy?
PIERSON: Well, I think debates naturally aren't for anybody that is not a politician or a lawyer, for that matter, that's where you go and you have 60 seconds to present a very complex case. Unless you are skilled in litigation, or a current politician, you can't do that very well.
[19:22:02] CUPP: Well, Carly Fiorina has had a number of great debates. She's neither a lawyer. In fact, she dropped out of law school and she's not a politician.
PIERSON: She is a politician.
CUPP: No, she's not. She's never held elected office.
PIERSON: She ran for Senate.
CUPP: And lost.
PIERSON: A full campaign.
CUPP: She's very good at debating. You don't have to be a politician to know stuff and come prepared. Trump is best when he doesn't actually have to provide specifics, which is why he's great at these town halls. When he's not challenged to do so. He is not great standing next to people who come armed with loads of facts and are prepared for the counterpunches that they are naturally expecting.
PIERSON: But you can also be fair and say that maybe he doesn't talk about all of the specifics in the 60 seconds he's given but you can't deny that he, unlike the rest of the candidates, have full-blown policies on his website that he has pushed out and that he does talk about when he is out seeing the voters.
CUPP: Well, he doesn't talk about them in great specifics and I've read their policy papers and they are very substantive. I'm not sure he would be able to regurgitate them himself or elaborate on how they're going to be implemented. In fact, a number of interviews, you know, people have asked him, can you tell us how you're going to deport 11 million people and he shrugs off that opportunity to be specific and says, well, we'll do it humanely and it will be great through organization. I mean, he's gotten plenty of opportunities to be specific and he just decides not to.
BURNETT: Let me ask each of you something, about a story that will not go away, that is now gotten a little bit bigger. Let me ask you. Ben Carson tonight said he would not abort baby Hitler. All right, now, for people out there who are saying, what did Erin just say? I said what I just said. He was asked if he would abort baby Hitler. He said, no. Now Jeb Bush said the other day, hell, yes, he would kill baby Hitler. Who had the better answer?
PIERSON: I -- that is just very strange. I mean, this is another one of those strange things that Ben Carson says. And for Jeb Bush to say that, I mean, he's supposed to be a pro-life candidate regardless of who the baby is. But again, this is another example of the Ben Carson that we see out there saying the strangest things for the strangest reasons. It doesn't make any sense.
BURNETT: S.E., what do you make of that? Is there a right answer to that question?
CUPP: They are both losers for answering a very really question. I mean, find me one voter. You find me one voter who cares about that question and I will allow any candidate to actually answer it. I mean, honestly, I'm going to write a book about the 2016 election and it's going to be called, would you have killed baby Hitler and other questions that came up, like, does going to prison make you gay? What was actually in the Egyptian pyramid? I mean, some of this stuff is pure nonsense and whether you're Jeb Bush or Ben Carson or anyone else, sometimes you have to rise above, shake your head, figure out where the heck you are and say, that's crazy. I'm not going there.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you both very much. And for all of our viewers, tomorrow I'm going to be sitting down one-on-one with Donald Trump. Please do not miss that interview. You'll see it tomorrow night in its entirety right here at 7:00 OUTFRONT.
And next, Flight 9268's black box, our special report. You're going to hear an explosion and see exactly how investigators figure out what it is. An OUTFRONT investigation.
And then this shocking video showing a black man being tased by police officers again and again and again. He dies in custody. Should those officers be charged?
[19:29:32] BURNETT: New developments tonight in the investigation in the crash of Metrojet Flight 9268. U.S. investigators say they still have no access to the wreckage. Now, Egyptian officials told CNN yesterday that American investigators were invited to examine the American-made engines but tonight, the NTSB says, it is still waiting.
And also tonight we're learning that when they do get to see the wreckage, they may be extremely limited in what they are allowed to see.
Rene Marsh is OUTFRONT. And Rene, what are you learning tonight?
RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erin, we know from a U.S. official with knowledge of the investigation, the Egyptians have acknowledge the NTSB's offer to help and accepted. So, the NTSB is prepared to help but they won't launch until they receive specific information about when and where the plane's engines will be brought for examination. Now, the Russian passenger planes Pratt and Whitney engines, they were made right here in the United States and under international law that automatically allows the NTSB to assist.
But with Egypt leading the investigation, the NTSB's access to the rest of the plane will likely be limited. That's according to a U.S. official.
The engines alone will probably be the extent of what they get to inspect. They will be the first U.S. officials to get access to the plane.
We do want to point out that the NTSB, as you know, they are an accident investigation agency. So, they're not criminal. Their purpose is to determine what caused the crash.
Erin, even though they are on standby to join this investigation, they will not make a move until they receive more information from the Egyptians. So, right now, the ball is in Egypt's court.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Rene, thank you very much.
We know that investigators have uncovered a sound, a sound, just a split second in the final moments of the cockpit voice recording. But how will they go about determining if that sound is from a bomb?
Miguel Marquez with a special OUTFRONT report.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): That's what one half of one second of an explosion sounds like. Here it is slowed down five times.
In the MetroJet 9268 investigation, France 2 quoting an investigator said something at the very end of the voice recorder sounded like a possible explosion. Could that be possible?
Pan Am Flight 103 was brought down by a bomb placed in the luggage haul. The bomb exploded as the 747 was at 31,000 feet. The jet's final moments captured on the cockpit voice recorder left little for investigators to work with, just 170 milliseconds. That's little 2/10 of one second.
PAUL GINSBERG, FORENSIC AUDIO EXPERT: It's going to be loud enough to severely overload the input system to the cockpit voice recorder. MARQUEZ: In the final moment, Flight 103's voice recorder shows
nothing on the pilot's mike and the co-pilot ending a normal conversation with ground control and a mike recording of everything in the cockpit appears to capture a loud noise, but investigators could never determine what it was.
GINSBERG: It is going to overload the microphone, the amplifier and recording system and cause distortion and that's telltale that something happened that was very quick, very loud.
MARQUEZ: The voice recorder then indicates all power was cut to the system.
(on camera): It's not just about the voices on the voice data recorder.
GINSBERG: No, no. It's everything. You have to be a real detective and use every bit of information that is recorded on the recorder.
MARQUEZ (voice-over): Investigators found the power cut itself this five millisecond investigation assigned all four of the plane's generators simultaneously ceased. The only explanation, the disruption of the passenger cabin floor across its entire width. In other words, the massive jet in a fraction of a second split into pieces.
The voice recorder also gave investigators a time reference for when the cataclysmic event occurred. Eight seconds after that loud noise on the cockpit mike, ground radar tracking the plane showed not one blip but four, the plane was coming apart.
And then 46 1/2 seconds after that loud noise, Flight 103 crashed into the area surrounding Lockerbie, Scotland, 270 people died, 11 of them were on the ground.
BURNETT: It's pretty stunning. And when you hear the quickness of that sound and slow it down, it's still so quick. This is what they are looking at, this right here, one of the flight voice recorders.
MARQUEZ: This is a flight data recorder. It will be similar to the voice recorder. This is an older model, probably more similar to what was on 103. 9268 has a more updated one. It's also a digital recorder on 9268, so when the power cut there, it cut completely. On Flight 103, it kept going for a short bit of time because it was a tape then and it slowed down a bit after the recording stopped.
BURNETT: And this is a heavy thing. It's 40, 50 pounds?
MARQUEZ: Very, very heavy. They survive crashes. They are meant to survive crashes and are very robust.
BURNETT: And so, the bottom line is, when you hear that sound, which we'll play again for Mary Schiavo, it's not clear if they will be able to say that's the sound from a bomb as opposed to something else?
[19:35:05] MARQUEZ: As opposed to the plane breaking up, the airplane coming apart, they will be able to say it was something very fast and very loud.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Miguel.
And OUTFRONT now, Mary Schiavo, former inspector general of the Department of Transportation.
And, Mary, you just heard that sound, just that split second of a sound. Would that be enough?
MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, it's certainly not enough to, you know, conclusively determine what kind of bomb and where it could be placed, you know, how the plane came apart. But amazingly, in prior crashes, including some that I've worked on, that split second of a sound can be analyzed for so many different things, the length of the sound. That sound as compared with other known crash causes, such as TWA 800 or a carrier in which the door came apart and then the frame came apart.
And so, what they do is compare the signature of that sound, the harmonics, the frequencies, and they take it apart literally line by line with the sound and compare it to other accidents. So, it's possible at other crashes or bombings. So, it's possible to determine if it has the same sort of sound signature in harmonics and really can display like the other crashes or bombings did. So, it's amazing what you can get out of it.
BURNETT: And would they be able to tell, Mary, in any way the magnitude of the explosion, you know, whether this was a five-pound bomb or two-pound bomb, a few ounce bomb? As Miguel has been reporting all of those would be possible to bring a jet down like this, crucial to know which it was. Will they be able to tell from this?
SCHIAVO: Well, they'll be -- well, hopefully they will be able to get some indication based on the magnitude of the explosion and they can also tell if there is -- you know, they are lucky, really. The distance from that to the microphones in the cockpit, remember, the CVR microphones are in the cockpit, there is one over the pilot, one over the co-pilot and one there to collect the general sounds. They can sometimes tell the distance.
It's truly amazing what these experts can do in the investigation because we have a database now of so many prior bombings, crashes or in-flight break-ups, you do have quite a bit of data to compare it with.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Mary.
And our thanks to Miguel. And OUTFRONT next, newly released video. This man repeatedly
tased by police dying in their custody. What happened? We're going to show you that in full.
And after this incredible shootout at a suburban strip mall, prosecutors today indicting more than 100 people. We'll be live in Waco.
[19:41:44] BURNETT: Tonight, we have new video of an unarmed black man who died in police custody. Officers fired their tasers multiple times and it happened just outside of a hospital. Here's the hospital.
The man, though, never got medical treatment from doctors. I want to warn you that what you will see here is graphic but it's an important part of the story.
Pamela Brown is OUTFRONT.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This police video shows three officers in South Boston, Virginia, tasing a man right outside of the hospital emergency room.
Shortly after, that man, 46-year-old Linwood Lambert died in police custody.
The video begins with officers picking Lambert at a motel early one morning in May of 2013, after several 911 calls were made about noise.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've got you. I've got you.
BROWN: In court records, police say because of the way Lambert was acting, they decided to take him to the hospital for a mental health evaluation. They say he made comments about murdering two people and hiding their bodies in the ceiling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to take you to the emergency room and we're going to make sure you're good to go.
BROWN: Inside the patrol car, police say, he kicked out the window. Then, the video shows Lambert running straight into the hospital doors while handcuffed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on your belly.
BROWN: He falls to the ground and the officers repeatedly ask him to roll over on to his stomach while threatening to tase him.
Lambert admits that he was on drugs.
LINWOOD LAMBERT: I just did cocaine, man. BROWN: But instead of taking him inside the emergency room, the
officers take him to the police station.
OFFICER: You're under arrest. Stand up.
BROWN: The officers tased Lambert multiple times. He's bleeding apparently from breaking the squad car window.
By the time they reach the police station, Lambert appears unconscious in the back seat. He was later pronounced dead at the hospital after going into cardiac arrest, according to the medical examiner's report.
The report ruled the cause of death as acute cocaine intoxication, but the family blames the police and they filed a $25 million wrongful death lawsuit alleging, quote, "The officers' callous disregard for Linwood Lambert in tasering him multiple times and depriving him of the desperate medical care he needed violated his constitutional rights to be free from cruel and unusual punishment."
Police have denied the allegations, saying Lambert's erratic action required the use of force.
Pamela Brown, CNN, Washington.
BURNETT: And OUTFRONT now, Paul Callan, a former prosecutor and criminal defense attorney.
OK. So, you see this happening outside of a hospital. They never took him inside. He never got medical care. He went in the back of the squad car. He was tased multiple times.
You know, on a very simplistic level, it would appear that they are clearly responsible.
PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it looks very problematic for the cops here because he's clearly mentally deranged when they pick him up and they decided not to place him under arrest and go to precinct, they decide to take him for medical care. And when they get to the hospital and they're right in the place where he can be restrained, sedated with drugs, they change their mind and they say, all of a sudden, he's under arrest, we're going to take him to the precinct.
[19:45:00] So, there's going to be criticism that they should have had a psychiatrist look at him, he should have been sedated at the hospital and maybe he would have survived this incident.
BURNETT: Because the cause of death is acute cocaine intoxication. But then again, people look at all that tasing and say, but certainly the taser had something to do with it?
CALLAN: Well, the plaintiffs in the case who are bringing the case -- BURNETT: For $25 million.
CALLAN: Yes, $25 million. They are going to claim that. The defense is going to be, the taser had nothing to do whatever to do with it. However, when you look at the report, it's cardiac arrest and the heart operates on electrical impulses.
CALLAN: So, I think it's kind of easy to convince a jury that the taser maybe caused or contributed to the death. And if that's proven and this conduct is reckless and way out of line, the cops could be held liable civilly.
BURNETT: All right. Paul Callan, thank you.
CALLAN: Thank you.
BURNETT: And OUTFRONT next, charges have been filed in a wake of wild shootout that left nine dead in a suburban strip mall, 106 indictments, and prosecutors say they are still not done. That late breaking news tonight.
And no, this is not movie magic or special effects. Jeanne Moos introduces us to a dreamer and his amazing flying machine.
BURNETT: More than 100 people have been indicted for organized crime, including aggravated assault and murder after a wild and deadly shootout. The chaos, which we will warn you is graphic, was all caught on tape.
[19:50:01] And in our exclusive video, you will see people running for their lives as rival biker club opened fire in a suburban strip mall.
Ed Lavandera is OUTFRONT with the new details tonight.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a shootout that looked like a scene out of a Quentin Tarantino movie, 177 bikers arrested, nine killed, and 18 wounded.
The chaos at Twin Peaks Restaurant was caught on surveillance video, and obtained by CNN.
Now, a grand jury in Waco, Texas, has indicted 106 of the bikers, charging them with organized crime, where they could face 99 years in prison. The district attorney in Waco says even more indictments will come.
ABEL REYNA, MCLENNAN COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We're not done. We have a lot of work and will continue to do that. My office is dedicated, as is the team to seeing justice is done in all of these cases.
LAVANDERA: One of the indicted bikers is John Wilson, president of Waco's chapter of the Cossack's motorcycle club.
JOHN WILSON, COSSACKS BIKER: To me, it's ridiculous and I think these families are being sacrificed for somebody's political gain.
LAVANDERA: Wilson says he was on the restaurant's patio when a fight started in a parking long, when gunshots erupted, he says he ran inside. You can see him inside the restaurant ducking for cover. He says the charges had already cost him more than $100,000 in legal fees and lost business at his motorcycle shop.
WILSON: You know, there may be half a dozen people there that committed a crime that day. But the vast majority of them didn't.
LAVANDERA: Some bikers are so angered by the criminal indictments, they are considering civil rights violation lawsuits.
STEPHEN STUBBS, FORMER BANDIDO ATTORNEY: There is major exposure here and I would hope they would let some people loose and say, sorry, we're going to go after who actually participated in the violence and we're going to leave you guys alone.
LAVANDERA: One of the bikers who was already suing, Matt Clendennen, spent almost three weeks in jail after the shooting. Police reports obtained by CNN say Clendennen ran into the bathroom hallway as soon as the fight broke out.
MATT CLENDENNEN, BIKER: It was a nightmare.
LAVANDERA: Today, he's not allowed to speak out because of a gag order. But in June, Clendennen told us as he walked out of jail, he thought the criminal charges would go away.
CLENDENNNEN: I think in the end, when everything gets cleared up and my name finally gets cleared of all this, I think it would -- you know, I can move forward from there. Had I in any way believed that anything, any violence was going to have occurred, I wouldn't have been there.
LAVANDERA: The charges aren't going away. Clendennen is also one of the 106 bikers indicted and facing serious prison time if convicted.
BURNETT: And, Ed, you've been speaking to bikers and attorneys. What are they telling you?
LAVANDERA: Well, most of the stuff we're told today we can't repeat. But various attorneys pointed out one thing, the Waco newspaper reported the grand jury met for nine hours yesterday and worked on these 106 indictments and attorneys pointed out the same thing, if you do the math on that, it works out to spending almost about six minutes on each of the individual cases, so they point to that as a reason why they are so angered.
Of course, prosecutors and investigators say they believe that those bikers were there and knew violence was going to erupt and that's why they were all arrested -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much, Ed.
And OUTFRONT next, Jeanne Moos with the guy who made good on his dream of flying like a real life Iron Man.
[19:57:43] BURNETT: New York is all about taking in the sights, the skyline, the Statute of Liberty and one guy has a new way to do it.
Here is Jeanne Moos with tonight's money and power.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Is it a bird, is it a plane? It's a man in a jet pack flying around the Statute of Liberty.
DAVID MAYMAN, PILOT AND CEO, JETPACK AVIATION: It was awesome. It was a dream come true. I was having a blast.
MOOS: The actual blast off from a boat was fairly gentle, the founder of Jetpack Aviation David Mayman is the test pilot and yes, he and his chief designer had to get all kinds of approvals to pull this off.
MAYMAN: The FAA asked what is it? Is it? A jetpack? What is that?
MOOS: The flight lasted about five minutes, the pilot uses hand controls and his body to steer. Though Mayman took one hand off the controls for a second.
MAYMAN: I saluted Lady Liberty on one of the passes I stopped and turned around and gave her a salute.
MOOS: Mayman has been hooked on jetpacks ever since he first saw James Bond take off on one in "Thunderball".
For 10 years, Mayman and designer Nelson Tyler have worked together. Tyler helped design the rocket belt that sent up man for less than 30 seconds at the 1984 Olympics. For the Statute of Liberty flight, the designer told his pilot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fly slow and careful and not too high.
MAYMAN: Yes, I didn't hear that message, I don't think.
MOOS: Next thing you know, it was 100 feet up doing 65 miles an hour.
Mayman says he can imagine selling a jetpack for the price of a super luxury car, somewhere in the ballpark of $100,000.
There are other devices that transform men into flying machines. Some are big and bulky. Others like these jet wings require take off from a chopper and landing via parachute. But Mayman wants a jetpack like the one 007 wore.
No well-dressed man should be without one, especially when taking liberties with a certain well-dressed lady.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
BURNETT: And thank you so much for joining us on this Veterans Day. All of us at OUTFRONT extend our deepest thanks to all the veterans for your sacrifice, your service and the great gift you have given this country.
"AC360" starts right now.