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Shooting in San Bernardino. Aired 10-11:00p ET
Aired December 2, 2015 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: Anderson, thank you very much. Ten p.m. on the East Coast, 7 p.m. in San Bernardino. Our breaking news, two suspects dead after the worst mass shooting since Sandy Hook.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
Here's what we know right at this moment. A police shootout on the streets of a residential neighborhood in San Bernardino that leaves two suspects, a man and a woman dead and one officer injured. The suspects dressed in assault-type clothing armed with AR-15-type weapons.
A third person detained close to the scene. Police don't know yet whether that person is connected to the shootings. It all comes after a brutal attack on a conference center where county employees were having a holiday event.
Fourteen people are dead tonight and 17 injured. And that's where we start. I want to bring in CNN's Scott Glover. Scott, I understand you're on the scene now, in one of the scenes where you are located, what are you seeing?
SCOTT GLOVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Don. I'm in Redlands, California not too far from San Bernardino and I'm standing outside in an apartment complex that is linked to one of the suspects. Police set up here several hours ago, and they are serving a search warrant that is related to the events earlier in the day.
There are dozens of officers on scene, some of them dressed in SWAT gear. Very recently, they took a robot into the area of the residence and there was a loud bang sometime after that. All we know is that they're serving this warrant in connection with the shootings in the events earlier today.
LEMON: They said that earlier they were not sure whether the device or whether a device in the home whether it was explosive, an explosive device or not. Have you heard about anything about any explosions in the area, Scott?
GLOVER: There was a loud sound. I cannot say if it was an explosion. But I have not been briefed recently by the law enforcement officials on the scene. So, I cannot answer that question with any authority. But there was a bang of some sort. Whether that was done by the law enforcement or there was a device and yet, that townhouse I'm not sure. LEMON: OK. So, how far away, Scott, are you being kept away, are you
close to the scene? And have they ordered people who are there to leave the scene? Any sort of evacuations?
GLOVER: I'm about a probably a football field away from the scene. I don't know if you can make out or our viewers can make out that there are, you know, some police vehicles, kind of a heavy armored SWAT vehicle in the background there.
I've been here for what feels like several hours. And, you know, it started with a small police presence and that has grown considerably. You know, that the perimeter here is blocked off in at least in four different areas. So, it's hard to say how many exactly are out here now.
I do not know whether the town homes have been cleared. I would presume that the town homes around the one in question have, but I cannot witness that from my vantage point.
LEMON: Is this the area where they said they saw a third person leaving the area and got reports of someone possibly jumping fences and they had to check the area for a possible third -- for another person?
GLOVER: From my understanding, what was said at a press conference earlier this evening by law enforcement officials, this is an address that was linked to two people who had driven away from here. Police had come here on the basis of a tip. They followed them and that resulted in the officer involved shooting.
I don't think it's a link to the third suspect. But that's what was said at a press conference earlier this evening.
LEMON: All right. Scott, I want you to stand by. I want to get to CNN's Kyung Lah who has been following the story as well. Kyung, tell our viewers where you are and what's the very latest there?
KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm where all of this began at about 11 a.m. today there was a call, an urgent call that there was a mass shooting at a building about a block or so behind me. It is the IRC, the Inland Regional Center. And it's a place that treats developmentally disabled.
They provide services to thousands of people. There are about 550 people inside this building when the shooting took place. They are still trying to clear this building. According to the ATF, they have found some sort of improvised explosive device, they believe and they are trying to render it safe.
That's the language they use, render it safe. That has not yet happened, that is expected to happen sometime this evening. So, still very much an active scene. There are 14 people who have been killed, 17 who have been seriously wounded. And they're still in the process; the police here are in the process of trying to interview all of the people. Then you have the Redlands address, the ATF there had to send in a
robot. They are concerned about whether or not there are any improvise explosive devices there. Then there is the shooting scene between the -- and the two suspects in the SUV as well as the gunfire exchange between the police and those two suspects.
[22:05:08] That SUV, we've seen this throughout the night, those -- that incredible video of all the bullets inside that SUV. The one thing that the ATF says that they want us to know is that these two suspects hat two long guns, AR-style 15-type weapons.
They also had handguns and they are in the process right now, according to the ATF PIO of trying to trace those guns. They hope to have some sort of lead in the next 24 hours, about exactly where those guns came from, Don.
LEMON: Kyung Lah, that press conference was held not long ago, they said they did not know the identities of the suspects but then they were checking on them. But there were two suspects, a man and a woman, dressed in black tactical type clothing. What else do we know about the suspects?
LAH: We don't know the relationship between these two suspects. we certainly know it's extraordinarily rare to have a woman involved, connected to some sort of mass shooting. That really, really struck all of us out here. That it's extraordinarily rare.
Also unknown is exactly what the connection was between the suspects and the people who are inside this auditorium. We need to explain that where this mass shooting took place. According to the police department, it was in a rented auditorium. There were county employees having a holiday party and then the shooting began.
It's unknown because there is a report that one person had some of dispute and then left the party. It's unknown if the suspect was that person. So, police right now still in the process of trying to interview people.
But, you know, beyond the fact that these two people, a man and a woman, we don't have their ages, we don't know their relationship, but they were wearing assault-type gear and they were heavily armed, Don.
LEMON: OK. Kyung, I want you to stand by because I want to bring in our justice correspondent Evan Perez who's been working his sources in D.C.
Evan, I'm wondering why during this press conference that the police said they weren't sure, they needed to check more but they would not rule out terrorism.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, at this point, they really don't know enough yet to rule anything in or out. But I can shed a little bit more light on to what the law enforcement believes happened here further to what Kyung was just describing. We're told that law enforcement believes that one of these people --
one of these suspects was associated with this event, went -- was inside this event, there was some kind of altercation and left. And then came back with at least one, or perhaps two other people and that's when the shooting started.
This is all about 11 o'clock in the morning, local time there in San Bernardino. And so, that's what the scene -- the way this began. This is a -- an event that was being held by the county health department or health agency. And this person was associated with that event was either belonged there, was attending it or was scheduled to attend it.
And apparently, either was kicked out or there was some altercation that caused him to leave and then came back and that's when the shooting occurred. Now, it's not clear, again, at this point. The witness interviewed said to law enforcement that there might have been as many as three shooters.
Now at this point, we're told by law enforcement that they're still not sure whether there were three people. We know that at least those two people who were involved in the later shootout, the one where the car was shot and the two people who are dead. We know that those people are believed to have carried out the shooting at a -- at the IRC.
But we do not know whether or not there was a third person. There was a third person who's been detained, who's been interviewed. That person is not been publicly identified. We don't know whether that person at all was associated with this.
So, there is many, many unanswered questions. This is such an unusual event because we have a couple of people who carried out a shooting. And again, you look at the map there, you see that there is interstate, they could have been in Mexico by now. They could have been anywhere and they decided to stay there, clearly for a reason, perhaps to have a shootout with police.
We still do not know. Again, this is something that it's very fluid. The FBI, the ATF are all there working the scene trying to determine whether or not there is a terrorism nexus to this. These are all questions that will be answered in the next few hours, Don.
LEMON: Evan, stand by. I want to tell our viewers they are looking at live pictures now from Redlands, California where police are on the scene. It's also the FBI are searching a home there, a town home there. There are reports or there is a concern there that there is a possible explosive inside of that home.
LEMON: So, police are checking on that. So, Evan, here's the question. During the press conference, police said that there was -- there was a meeting, the folks were in the meeting, the holiday type event. Someone did leave over a dispute, as you've said. But they're not sure if it's the person or people who came back. They're not sure if it's the same people. [22:10:03] PEREZ: Right, exactly. That's what -- that is right. What
is exactly what they said at the press conference? I'm told by other law enforcement officials that they believe that that is the person who was involved.
And now again, this is something that they are still doing a lot -- there is still a lot of great deal of police work to be done here. And we also know, Don, that one reason why they're searching this home is because it is believed to be associated with this event, with this suspect that carried out this shooting.
So, again, that's one reason why they're at this home where Scott Glover was, where you saw the battering ram that entered the home. And again, they're trying to render safe what is believed to be an explosive.
We know that they've been looking at various items to see whether or not they were pipe bombs. So far they have not found any actual explosives, that at least according to what we've known publicly from the law enforcement.
But we do know that that home is associated with this event and with the suspects who are believed to have carried out the shooting at the IRS there.
LEMON: Reports of throwing pipe bombs, they had checked then they were not explosive.
PEREZ: They're sure they're not to be.
LEMON: Not to be explosives. Before I move on, I want you to -- I guess to get you to stand by in a moment. But talk to us about the weapons because as I understand you're getting reports as to what type of weapons exactly were found on the suspects when they were -- when they were shot.
PEREZ: That's right. That's right, Don. They did recover two handguns and two AR-15-type rifles. And that's important because the witnesses at the event, at the shooting said that the shooter or shooters used long guns, long rifles, to carry out the shooting.
And that does explain why you have such a high number of casualties. And that does -- it does explain that type of event. But again, that's what they recovered so far from these two suspects that were killed, was at least two rifles and two handguns, AR-15-style rifles.
LEMON: All right. Stand by, Evan. Again, you're watching live pictures now from Redland, California, Redlands, California police, FBI authorities are on the scene. They believe that there could be an explosives inside of this home.
This is the home that started the whole pursuit for these two suspects who were eventually taken down by agents. Now I want to bring Bernard Kerik. He's a former New York City Police
Commissioner, and he joins me now by phone. As you look at this, Mr. Commissioner, look at what's happening and you're hearing the reports of a man and woman, tactical clothing, tactical gear, where does your experience in authority lead you to here?
BERNARD KERIK, FORMER NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: Honestly, Don, I have to go terrorism on a couple of different fronts. You know, somebody said workplace violence, and he got mad and he came back. Listen, you know, if he didn't come back and just shoot the place up. If, you know, this is the same guy, he came back in military-style clothing, armored vest, long guns, and then some type of AR-15 or AK- 47.
You know, there is supposedly an IED placed in the -- in the buildings. There may be explosives in the place that's now being searched by the FBI. The mere fact that the FBI has just about taken over this thing, that tells me -- that leads me to believe terrorism as well.
You know, the FBI has an enormous capability, experience and manpower. The Los Angeles Office of the FBI is one of the largest terrorist task forces in a state with the exception of New York City. So, I'm going toward terrorism. I think this could have been and I said this earlier, this could been a sleeper that went operational after maybe somebody had a problem. Or maybe this was the whole set up.
And because they were in and out, got out of there, got completely out of the area without being tagged. So, I'd say there was a lot of planning. This was something they intended to do. And time will tell.
LEMON: And it's also unusual to see a woman involved in a situation like this, right?
KERIK: Yes, it's unusual. You know, listen, you know, if this is international terrorism, we see a lot of this abroad, we see it in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, you know, you can go to the Osama Bin Laden, the people who were protecting him, those women, they were even protecting the men during the confrontation with U.S. Special Operations.
So, women -- women who are involved in this type of stuff which is sort of another indicator.
LEMON: All right. Mr. Kerik, I want you to stand by because I want to tell you about a news conference tonight in San Bernardino. The assistant director of the FBI addressed the question that's on everyone's minds right now. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID BOWDICH, FBI LOS ANGELES ASSISTANT DIRECTOR IN CHARGE: I know one of the big questions that will come up repeatedly is, is this terrorism? And I'm still not willing to say that we know that for sure. [22:15:05] We are definitely making some movements that it is a
possibility. We are making some adjustment to our investigation. It is a possibility. But we don't know that yet. And we're not willing to go down that road yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The FBI earlier did not go that far, Mr. Kerik, and now the FBI has a much bigger role in this. Now they're saying they don't want to rule it out.
KERIK: You know, you also have to keep in mind nobody wants to speculate. Nobody wants to, you know, they don't want to say the wrong thing. They don't want to give the wrong impression.
And I think basically what the assistant director did was right on. You know, look, we're changing some things. We're going to be looking at it, but it's still premature to say. You know, and I think that's the right thing to do.
Don't put it out there unless you're absolutely sure. But as an outsider, you know, with you and others as we watch this, I'd say it's leaning in that direction.
LEMON: All right. Thank you, Bernard Kerik. I want to bring in now Chris Swecker, former assistant director with the FBI. Mr. Swecker, there is something, there is information that brought authorities to this home, either names or some sort of identity or something, some information.
So, the FBI knows something. We're being very careful here as we should be and the FBI is being very careful about this as well. Where do you think this is leading?
CHRIS SWECKER, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: Well, I don't think that was a random target. It's an odd target of terrorism if it is in fact terrorism. But I don't think it's a random target. And the fact that they were led to that house by a tip; it leads me to believe that someone may have identified one of the shooters. So, one of the shooters had a nexus to that facility or the party that was going on.
So, I think you're going to see -- of course they're holding their cards very close to the vest at this point as they will should. And Dave Bowditch, the assistant director they run CLA Office is being very cautious, as Bernie pointed out as they should. I think you're going to see this thing have a very close connection to that facility.
LEMON: We're getting indications, though, that this is different from other mass shootings that we've seen before. Do you agree with that? And if you do, how so.
SWECKER: Well, differ in the mass shootings that have taken place in the United States which have all been deranged individuals with a grudge or some sort of mental illness. We've only, we've seen one or two terrorist related attacks, Hassan and the Tsarnaev Brothers. But most of our mass casualty incidents have been deranged
individuals, homegrown, not really driven by any particular type of ideology. So, this is very different. This is multiple shooters, mass casualties, military style of operation. Basically, what we saw in Paris.
LEMON: Listen, I want to tell our viewers that as we're watching this we have Chris Swecker who is a former assistant director of the FBI on the phone with us saying this is different than most mass shootings that happen in the United States, but consistent possibly with ones that happened overseas.
Also I want to tell you that we are watching the scene in Redlands, California where the ATF in far there -- an ATF on the scene now within a robot sweeping a home there, a town home. They believe that there may be an explosive device of some kind.
Our reporters and our crew came up on the scene to see them breaking down the door with a battering ram going inside this. So, they did hear an explosion. They're not sure if it's an explosion from a device going off or if the police set off some type of explosion.
They also said that several magazines full of ammunitions were found on the suspects, tactical clothing after they were killed. Also they said the suspects were throwing devices out may too look like a pipe bomb. It turned out not to be a pipe bomb. They were determined to be fake.
So, tell -- let's talk about this black SUV, Chris Swecker. Only two miles from the Inland Regional Center, does that surprise you, why would they stay so close if they were -- would there possibly be a second target here?
SWECKER: Well, possibly. My understanding is that they, that the house was further than two miles from where the SUV ended up but they were spotted coming out of the house, they got into a chase. It led back towards the clinic facility.
So, the house itself is not as close as you might think. However, it still leads me to believe that there is a nexus, a very strong nexus to the facility itself, to the clinic. I think we're going to find that one of these people was an employee, possibly and employee or past employee or had some other strong connection there.
LEMON: All right. Mr. Swecker, stand by. I need to get to someone who is on lockdown right now at their home. Her name is Rianne Boitler. Lockdown in the Redlands. Ms Boitler, thank you so much for joining us.
[22:20:04] Tell us what's going on in your neighborhood. How far are you from the scene?
RIANNAE BOITLER, REDLANDS RESIDENT: I would say we're about maybe 300, 400 yards away. We're in the same town home complex, just on the other side.
LEMON: And what are they telling you?
BOITLER: We are just being told just not to go outside and that's about it. My husband went outside to see what was going on earlier and the police told him to get back inside. So, that's -- that's kind of what's going on right now and that's that all that we know.
LEMON: How long ago did they tell you not to go -- not to leave your home?
BOITLER: About 30 minutes ago.
LEMON: About 30 minutes ago. OK.
LEMON: All right. Thank you. Please be safe and tell your husband, you know, stay inside and be safe. We appreciate you joining us here in CNN.
LEMON: Rianne Boitler who is on lockdown about 300 or 400 yards, she says away from the home that they are searching there.
We're continuing the breaking news here on CNN as you're looking now authorities on the scene in Redlands, California where they have gotten two suspects, two suspects dead after a deadly mass shooting in San Bernardino today.
Investigators desperately searching for clues tonight. More on our breaking news right after this very quick break.
LEMON: Breaking news here on CNN, 14 people dead, 17 injured in a mass shooting today in San Bernardino, California. The live pictures you're looking at from our affiliate KABC out in California.
Police are on the scene. The ATF on the scene using a robot to sweep apartments in Redlands of this townhouse in Redlands, where they believe there is some possibly some type of explosive device. They have -- the residents have been told to -- not to leave their homes. It's not been an order of evacuation or evacuation yet, but they have been told to shelter in place until the situation is taken care of, until it is secure.
[22:25:02] I want to bring in now CNN's Evan Perez, he's in D.C. and Kyung Lah who is on the scene in San Bernardino, California. Kyung, we have been talking about the people who they had -- today that they caught and killed, away from the scene, not far away from the scene in San Bernardino.
Two people in black tactical type clothing. The last we heard from authorities they said they did not know the identities of those people, at least they didn't want to release the identities of the people to the public. They probably know far more than what they're telling us.
LAH: And we are getting a few more details about those two suspects. We have spoken to the ATF and they say when they were finally able to approach that suspect vehicle. Those two suspects had two long guns, two AR-15-style rifles, they also had two handguns on them.
And the other thing that I found interesting was they also had a number of clips attached to their body. They were heavily armed. They were wearing military assault-type clothing. And the reason why the police didn't approach the vehicle immediately, the reason why is because there was a pipe thrown from the suspect vehicle while police were engaged in this pursuit.
And that pipe looked like a pipe bomb. It had a wick in it, it was a metal pipe. But when the authorities went to look at it they realize it was just a fake device. But that's the reason why they were so cautious; they were concerned that there might be something explosive in that SUV.
Meanwhile, there is a situation in Redlands; there is also an explosive device, according to the ATF here at the original shooting scene. They're still trying to disable that one, Don.
LEMON: Evan Perez, there is also a third suspect that's in custody but they're not sure if this person was involved.
PEREZ: Right. That's right, Don. At this point even, to give you a sense of the chaos of this investigation, and really, just the difficulty of doing this, they still don't know now whether there was actually ever a third shooter.
That is something now that law enforcement is going back to check on. This is based on early -- early reports from witnesses. And as you know, witness -- witnesses often don't necessarily remember everything that they -- that they see. They're trying to get out of the scene and all that.
So, right now, we do know that these two suspects that were killed some distance away from the original shooting scene are believed to be the people who have, who carried out the initial shooting at the initial -- the initial shooting.
And so now the third scene that they're doing the search where the ATF has tried to resolve whether or not there is an explosive device, that scene is associated with one of these suspects, there is one of the -- it's his home or something to that effect.
So, that is what we know from law enforcement at this point. It's not clear whether or not there is still a third person at large. The third person that you talked about was arrested, was detained and being questioned. His name has not been released. We don't know whether that person has any association with this event or just simply was at the wrong place at the wrong time.
And what's striking to law enforcement officials, Don, is simply the fact that these people carried out the shooting then didn't go anywhere. Didn't -- they stayed right there within a couple of miles of the original scene of the shooting.
They could have been -- they could have gotten -- they could have gotten to Las Vegas by the time of that second event. But they chose to stay there, and so the question is, why was that, was there a plan to just shoot it out with the police. We still don't know that, the answer to that question.
LEMON: And according to investigators at the press conference held not long ago. I'm not sure if there is a third person or potentially more involved in this.
I want to go to CNN's Deborah Feyerick who has been working her sources as well. Deb, my question is, do you know, does anyone know what exactly brought law enforcement to this particular home?
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's actually a very good question. As it is been reporting after the shootout, during that holiday party, the suspect left in a black SUV. Now very quickly, police were able to get some information that led them back to that home in Redlands.
Police were sent to that home and it's there that they're being told by a source that they saw a car resembling the black SUV passed by and the chase ensued. Now one person was shooting at the police officer who was chasing the vehicle and the other person was driving.
As Kyung mentioned, something resembling a pipe was tossed from the window. But the cop was able to return fire at that car and that's when it sort of came to a standstill that two suspects were shot and killed. The man and the woman, both of them had assault rifles, they are AR-15.
It's unclear also whether there was a third suspect. Big question as Evan reported, as to whether the third person was running away from the vehicle.
[22:29:59] But those two bodies that were found near the car, Don, were checked for explosives. The car itself was also checked for explosives. And so, but it was some sort of the information that was developed at the scene of the original shooting that was able to lead police to that Redlands home, and now FBI agents are in midst of -- or in the process of searching that home as well, Don.
LEMON: All right. Deb, stand by as we look at these pictures from Redlands, California where the ATF on the scene. They are trying to figure out if this is indeed an explosive device and so how to disable it.
I want to bring in my panel of experts now. Harry Houck is a CNN law enforcement analyst, retired NYPD detective, also Jim Maxwell, a Philadelphia retired special agent to the FBI and a consultant as well to Buckley Peterson Global, also, Chris Swecker is with us, a former assistant director of the FBI. Jonathan Gilliam is here with us, a CNN military analyst and former FBI special agent. And of course, Casey Jordan joins us now. And she is a criminologist. Thank you, guys, so much for joining us. As I am sitting here tonight
reporting this, and you are listening some of you on the panel say, no, you don't believe it is terrorism that it doesn't point to that. And you say all signs point to it. Why is that?
HARRY HOUCK, RETIRED NEW YORK POLICE DETECTIVE: It looks that way because the attack was well planned, OK? We're going in there, we've got heavy weapons. We've got bullet-proof vests. They go in.
LEMON: Man and woman.
HOUCK: man and woman. Well, at the time we thought it was three shooters, you know. They go in.
LEMON: Hang on, Harry, I just want to tell you this, as we are waiting on the Mayor of San Bernardino. The mayor is going to speak very shortly and if he does, we'll have to interrupt. There is a podium; as soon as he steps to the mic we will get to the mayor. Sorry. Continue.
HOUCK: Yes. They run in there and stay -- I don't know how long they stay in there but it was long enough that they get away without the police getting to them. All right. So, we've got -- we've got a great plan going in, going out, shooting and getting away. Now...
LEMON: The Mayor of San Bernardino speaking now. Carey Davis. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAREY DAVIS, SAN BERNARDINO MAYOR: A tragic incident. Our city is suffering from the effects of those who decided to express themselves in a violent fashion. Our community is coming together to deal with the situation. Our Police Department, our Sheriff's Department, the Fire Department, the ATF, the FBI, our probation. They all have done an excellent job of responding as quickly as they could.
We want to thank those who have supported those that have been gathering at the Hernandez Center. There has been a great outpouring of support and a great outpouring of assistance that has been offered to our community.
Senator Feinstein contacted me today. We know that the President has been monitoring the situation and we know that our governor is also very concerned. We appreciate their outpouring of support for our community.
At the Hernandez Center where many of those families were gathering we had an awful lot of our clergy that was providing support and was aiding those families that were suffering. It's our intent to try to make sure that the community knows that, we, as a city, will support and do all we can for the victims of this violent crime.
We will not be making any statements relative to any of the details. All of those details will be left up to our police department. They will be reporting. As you know they have in the past already had several press conferences. They will continue to keep the community apprised of any events that take place in any additional information.
Additionally, we have been speaking about the possibility of hoping to coordinate and support a vigil in our community. We're not exactly sure where that will be over the next day or so. We will be planning that together with our clergy to find an appropriate venue and to also make sure that those people who would like to attend are made aware of that.
At this time, I want to thank again, our P.D, I want to thank all of those agencies that responded as quickly as they could. Our city council, our city attorney, our city manager, our communications director have all done exemplary jobs of being on board with making sure that the communication that we give to the community is accurate.
And as I said earlier, we will not disclose any information other than that is disclosed by the Police Department as it relates to the investigation that's going on. It is an active investigation and we will leave that effort up to our Police Department.
At this time if there are any questions we will entertain a few questions.
[22:35:01] DAVIS: The council did come together to discuss what actions we thought we should be taking together as a council to be able to plan for the days ahead.
DAVIS: That was a closed session meeting.
DAVIS: Again, it was a closed session meeting and so that cannot be assess. What I'm discussing now with you are some of the details that did come out of that that are disclosable (ph).
DAVIS: We appreciate that question. One of the concerns that we have is to make sure that people do know that the city still is on alert. The P.D. are on full force. They have brought in all the resources that they can. They will continue on the 12-hour, 12-hour shift where they will be bringing in people as they need to.
As you the surrounding communities have also provided aid. So, calls for service will still be responded to. And the other surrounding communities, as you know, are also impacted by this. They are also taking a heightened level of security and also are -- many of our other facilities currently have been in contact with us.
We've asked them to make sure that they take whatever precautions are necessary and follow any protocols for those institutions. Cal State of San Bernardino, I have been in touch with them, I've been in touch with our superintendent of schools. I've been in touch with our president of San Bernardino Valley College.
And so, we coordinate our efforts to make sure that they keep their staff and their students safe.
DAVIS: There have been areas that have been released, you're correct. And so, the P.D. will continue to monitor that and they will let us know when those areas. City hall is no longer on lockdown, it previously was. Many of the facilities were on lockdown earlier today.
DAVIS: I think that our community needs to continue to stay cautious. But additionally, I'm very confident that our police department and our public safety is doing a great job and making sure that they have addressed the situation. They will continue to report out.
And I would suggest you stay tuned to those reports, so that you are able to then know what would be the right protocols individually and as a community that we take. And it's important to stay alert and to be cognizant of the information that does come out.
It's also important though, not to panic. It's not a time for us to become angry, but yet, to also realize that there is a need to be very cautious and to be at a heightened level of alert for our -- for the safety of our community but not just our community.
As we stand in the world today, with those things that are taking place all communities need to be on alert. This is a shocking event for our community. We certainly are very fortunate that we have such a trained -- well-trained Police Department. Our sheriff's department that went into action and they put a massive effort out at trying to alleviate the problem that they were confronted with.
DAVIS: I was at a meeting of the Sandbag board and about 11.25, I was notified of the active shooter involvement, and at that time I left that meeting immediately and came back to city hall to coordinate with our police department and public safety.
DAVIS: Well, the IRC has a number of organizations that meet in that building. The event that where the incident took place today, as you know, as we understand it, was a Christmas party.
So, there wasn't anything that was taking place as far as a conference at that particular time. That's my understanding. That it was a Christmas party. A terrible, terrible event to take place on a holiday event like that.
DAVIS: Absolutely. There is a lot that takes place there. We have behavioral health issues that are going on there. They provide some services. And -- but any venue that you would have to take place would be a tragedy. And it's unfortunate that -- that our community was the target. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[22:40:01] LEMON: That's the Mayor of San Bernardino, California, Carey Davis. Mr. Davis will join us live on CNN in just moments.
But I want to bring my experts back in now. But I want to say this, the mayor speaking for his community but also for every community around the country, he said stay alert and be cautious. That's good advice for everyone.
Again, I think the news that came out about this is that the city is still on alert. City hall no longer on lockdown, but basically this is pro-forma to thank the people who were involved in this, who were helping to keep everyone safe and who save some lives they are today.
And also, to tell the residents where they can go for help. We were talking about your assessment of the situation, Harry Houck, as before we went to the mayor.
HOUCK: Well, I said.
LEMON: We want to be very careful because we don't know what this is.
HOUCK: We don't know. And I could be wrong. The fact that -- what is really making me look like this might be a possible terrorist attack is the role of the FBI here. The FBI has taken virtually this whole show over here.
LEMON: But then the FBI have in every mass shooting that we had, Sandy Hook, we have in Aurora, the FBI has a big role.
HOUCK: Yes, they do. But you could see the presence of the FBI here. It's unbelievable. The fact that when they had the last presser, the FBI came on and they ask them if it was a terrorist attack. He had stated that, you know, well, we don't want to go that way right now.
But he indicated the way he -- he spoke that this was probably a terrorist attack. And that's -- and that's what's got me thinking that this is what it probably is.
The fact is the way the attack occurred, the fact that, you know, it was well planned, they got away quickly. That doesn't say it's a terrorist attack. To me, what says a terrorist attack is the FBI's role right now. LEMON: OK. And again, this is what experts do. They sit around and
they try to figure out exactly what motivations are, they assess the situation. And that's what we're doing here, what they would be doing -- what they would be doing at, you know, at more intense level.
Jonathan Gilliam, you're a CNN military analyst and a former FBI special agent. Talk to me.
JONATHAN GILLIAM, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, first of, I think this name, this particular name, that's been floated over social media came out and was reported over a police radio. And that's how it got on social media.
LEMON: We're not saying it, we're not saying the name.
GILLIAM: We're not saying the name. However, what's interesting about that name is the fact that it's reported that people recognized -- I'm seeing reports that people recognize an individual that was acting nervous, left, and then came back.
So, I think this just goes to show how quickly the information got to police and that's probably why because of good police work and quick Intel they were able to get to these individuals before they got away or got somewhere else or got home.
I think there is clear evidence that we're starting to see here that cops knew quickly who this probably was because that's -- they started moving toward this house which they are at this residence now.
But social media it's amazing how quickly social media starting to pick up on things now, and that is a big help for community awareness. You know, this stuff spreads rapidly. So, people can be aware before law enforcement even reports it on television.
LEMON: But I also want to say that I was listening to the scanner traffic earlier from the San Bernardino Police Department. And you heard names. But again, that is just scanner traffic, that is rumor that has not been confirmed by any law enforcement agency or any law enforcement authority.
LEMON: I want to get now to Jim Maxwell, Philadelphia retired special agent and an FBI consultant. This is right in your daily week; this is right in your wheel house. When you look at the situation of what's happening in Redlands right now at this home, what took place today at the center, the shootout that happened on the street, where does this take you?
JIM MAXWELL, RETIRED PHILADELPHIA FBI AGENT: Well, you know, it does lean toward some sort of terrorist act. But until the authorities can fully vet these two individuals and delve into their pedigree we're merely speculating at this point. But we have to look at everything. Who are these people and do they
have a direct connection to the location where this act took place? The weapons they obtained, the ATF tracing out these weapons. How long have they been in the country if or are they U.S. citizens. All those questions have to be asked. And the search of the apartment...
LEMON: We were told they are U.S. citizens. We're told they are U.S. citizens that at least...
MAXWELL: OK. If they are U.S. citizens, are they naturalized U.S. citizens, were they born here? Those questions have to be asked.
LEMON: At least the name of the person that got them, that the person that brought them to the home is a U.S. citizen.
LEMON: Go ahead.
MAXWELL: Right. But this is -- this is a huge undertaking. We're setting up a tactical operations command. We're setting up a command post where tons of information is coming in at a huge rate. And you need a lot of personnel to sort out these leads to decide what needs to be done first.
[22:44:54] This apartment, the computers, the phones, any types of the records left there, any type of equipment left there will tell us a lot about how this thing was planned and whether or not they had any help.
So, this is a -- this is quite an undertaking and it's something that can't be done in between the commercials.
LEMON: Casey Jordan...
MAXWELL: So, you have to give the authorities.
LEMON: Casey Jordan, there is a reason that I saved you for last. Casey Jordan is sitting here on set with me. She is a criminologist, she taking copious notes. You would urge everyone at this point to take a step back, is that correct? Do you necessarily think that this leads in any one direction?
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: No. And it's interesting to what Harry Houck heard from our FBI representative, was leaning towards terrorism. Well, my take on the exact same statement was that he thought it was terrorism but he's looking in a new direction because they don't think it's terrorism.
So, I have a theory and, you know, I don't hoarseness race. I don't mind if I turn out to be wrong. From a psychological and criminological perspective, this is most likely a disgruntled employee or a disgruntled constituent.
LEMON: But how does a disgruntled employee or constituent get one other maybe two or three more who knows how many other people to go along with that plan.
JORDAN: So, we have one. We have one. And when it was three, I was far more likely to believe it was terrorism.
LEMON: We have two.
JORDAN: Now we have two.
JORDAN: I'm far more likely to think it's a master disciple, a girlfriend of a disgruntled employee who would do anything for him, including getting fatigues out of eBay and going to the shooting range and maybe playing, you know, I don't know what I'd call of duty with him all day long.
And the point is, I think we underestimate how easy it is, a, for people to get the guns, b, for people to watch YouTube and get the training, and, c, for them to hold a grudge that blossoms and grows and then could be inspired by Paris but not caused by an extremist ideology.
LEMON: All right. I want everyone to stand by because as we are on the air tonight, there is a third person in custody. Not sure if they are involved in this. There is also a search going on of a home where they are believe -- that police believe an explosive device might be in that home in Redlands, California.
Those are the live pictures right now coming from California. That is the story today. Investigators still on the scene. A press conference we were told earlier should happen within the next hour or so.
The investigators desperately searching for clues tonight in this mass shooting, 14 dead, 17 injured. Quick break. We're back right after that.
[22:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Back now with the breaking news here on NBC look at -- so here on -- excuse me, on CNN. You are looking at live pictures that are coming in now from our affiliate, KABC in Redlands, California.
Fourteen people in California killed in that mass shooting. Police are now executing a warrant trying to figure out exactly what happened at this home. The ATF on the scene with a robot, a battering ram trying to get into this home to see if there are explosive devices inside of that home.
Joining me now to discuss this is psychiatrist Stephen Seager, co- producer of "Shattered Families, a Collapse of America's Mental Health System." As you look at this and you listen to the information we've had from
our experts and from the officials on the scene, what do you make of the people involved in this and what might be behind it, doctor?
STEPHEN SEAGER, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, I agree with your last guest. My overarching thing is I wish this would all stop. But if this could easily have been done by mentally ill people. I work with these kinds of people who's done mass shootings and this is a kind of thing they would do.
In other words, someone gets disgruntled. They -- if you think about it they went and shot up a meeting then they ran away and went home. And they just kind of sat there and waited for the police to show up and then the police shot them
They were wearing fatigues, which automatically kind of makes them visible. I think this is certainly could be something what your guest said was a master/disciple relationship. In psychiatry that's called the (Inaudible), where you just need one mentally ill person who kind of gets a susceptible other person involved and it could easily be two or three people in a (Inaudible).
So, this is not entirely without the realm of possibility. What I'm interested to hear is what the neighbors have to say. Usually the neighbors will go out and say, yes, these guys lived there, they were odd. Or, yes, they were from the Middle East.
Or somebody must have seen these guys or known them. But the whole story doesn't hang right. And I agree I have heard a couple of guests say that this whole thing about running away and then just going home, I just don't think that. That is something a mentally ill person or I don't think that's really vey well-planned.
LEMON: Casey Jordan is in agreement with you here.
JORDAN: I think that if they returned it was to wallow in it.
SEAGER: And I agree.
JORDAN: They wanted to see the carnage...
SEAGER: Is that they want to see on CNN.
JORDAN: Exactly. They wanted to get...
SEAGER: Exactly what they would do. That's 100 percent right.
LEMON: But people were saying if this were terror, right, wouldn't they hit some bigger place like a mall or some sort of shopping center or something?
JORDAN: I'm not sure. SEAGER: Yes, why would anyone pick...
LEMON: Dr. Seager.
SEAGER: Yes, why would one anyone pick a Christmas party at a regional center unless they had somebody who they messed with their disability payment or someone who has disgruntled? This wasn't an accident. Why would you send somebody in first, have them to get in a fight, leave, then go back and shoot the place up. The story just doesn't hang together for a mastermind.
HOUCK: But that doesn't make sense.
SEAGER: It doesn't make sense at all to me. It doesn't.
LEMON: I want to get now to Mr. Swecker, back with Mr. Swecker, as we were watching this, we're saying why would someone, Chris Swecker, why would someone, you know, pick this sort of facility rather than a bigger facility, shopping center, mall, stadium?
SWECKER: The 49ers game? Well, I think the obvious answer is that there is some connection to that facility, some personal connection to that facility or someone that works there. And you know, I've heard the discussion here and I credit both of them that for what they're saying.
I think that this type of individual is very easily recruited via the internet. We've seen it happen before; we're going to see it happen again. They can be angry, bitter, and then you just give them that, you know, you sort of provide the catalyst to spring into action.
So, I think this could be both. It could be both, you know, a grudge, a personal grudge, and inspired at the same time. So, let's -- we'll have to see what the facts say as Dave Bowditch said, let's just let the facts take us where it will take us.
LEMON: Dr. Seager, we are seeing so many mass shootings and it seems it's happening more frequently. Are more people willing to commit a crime like this? I mean, what is causing this?
SEAGER: I think that from my point of view, this is the fifth time I've been here since September. It's untreated mental illness is the American way. It's people who are basically paranoid, delusional, who have some sort of big thing, big grudge and that it's easy to get guns. It's simple. They amass an arsenal.
They're not this kind...
SEAGER: You know, it's not this kind of foil hat schizophrenics; they're just guys that are untreated. And I think that's the issue. It's from my point of view, it's untreated mental illness is the problem. And it's so easy to get guns. But in America -- I come from Utah and I just don't think that's going to happen, any gun control.
[22:55:07] LEMON: If this is untreated mental illness this is far afield from what you believe is with it, Jonathan Gilliam.
GILLIAM: Well, I'm trying to and I've been saying this all day. I'm trying not to completely label this one way or another. I thing we can look at the facts and we can clearly see that this was a targeted attack.
They definitely -- whoever did this, whether it was terrorism or it was people who have a vendetta against work, this was targeted against that facility.
What's interesting about this, though, this was not a theater. This was a theater where people brought that threat to them. If this guy was an employee, he wasn't necessarily an employee of the facility of the people in the theater.
LEMON: All right. Stand by, everyone. When we come right back, we'll have more on our breaking news. Two suspects dead after a mass shooting in San Bernardino. We're expecting a news conference tonight.
We're going to bring that to you the moment it happens right here on CNN.
LEMON: Hello, everyone. Eleven p.m. on the East Coast, 8 p.m. in San Bernardino.
[22:29:59] That's where our breaking news is happening. Two suspects dead after the worst mass shooting since Sandy Hook. We're waiting a news conference tonight and we're going to bring that to you the moment it happens.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.