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AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA
New Video of Chicago Police Tasering Man Inside Cell; Donald Trump Says Ban All Muslims in U.S.; Polls Used by Trump Questions. Aired 11:30-12p ET
Aired December 8, 2015 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:30:00] ERIC GUSTER, CRIMINAL & CIVIL TRIAL ATTORNEY: They're being very defensive in Chicago, with decent reason, but they have some problems going on.
BOLDUAN: This case is still -- I guess we can call it open three years later if they're releasing this video, even though Ryan says the officers were cleared. The fact you have this case, you have a man who died, a medical examiner's report that says he died in the hospital due to an adverse reaction to a drug. You also have video. Why is it taking three years for all of this to come out?
GUSTER: That's part of the problem. You have something from three years ago that they know the Department of Justice is going to find. They already know they're going to find these videos, they're going to pull all this video and they're trying to release it now. So Chicago --
BOLDUAN: What does that tell you about what's going to happen with this DOJ investigation?
GUSTER: There's going to be a tidal wave of bad investigations. I believe people in Chicago will protest, hopefully peacefully. That's why Chicago is trying to leak it bit by bit.
BOLDUAN: More videos to come out this week, as Ryan said.
GUSTER: Certainly. There will be dozens and dozens of cases. This is just the beginning.
BOLDUAN: Thank you very much, Eric. Great to see you.
Ryan Young, thank you so much.
Coming up for us, fierce backlash after Donald Trump calls for all Muslims to be banned from entering the United States. One Republican rival telling Donald Trump, in response, to go to hell. But what do Donald Trump supporters say? We'll talk to someone who is defending that man, ahead.
And this: "Popular, not very religious" -- that's what a former classmate says about the terrorist's mother who, along with her husband, killed 14 people in San Bernardino. Ahead, new details about Tashfeen Malik as officials look at her path to radicalization.
[11:36:01] BOLDUAN: Donald Trump's proposal to keep all Muslims from entering the United States. Earlier, on CNN, he had the chance to clarify his statement, maybe soften his tone, but he didn't. He doubled down. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & CEO, TRUMP ORGANIZATION (voice-over): We have people out there that want to do great. They want our buildings to come down. They want our cities to be crushed. Until we figure this out, we should have a ban.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: The response to that idea has been swift and fierce in many respects. We've heard Trump supporters say they think it's a very good idea. Critics from across the political spectrum can't believe what they're hearing from the 2016 front-runner for president.
Let's talk about all of this with Doug Heye, former communications director for the Republican National Committee; Brad Woodhouse, same job, same title at Democratic National Committee; and Scottie Hughes, chief political correspondent at USA Radio Network and a columnist for westernjournalism.com, also a Trump supporter.
Thanks for joining me.
DOUG HEYE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Morning.
BOLDUAN: A lot to get through, ding, ding, ding, so let's get going.
Doug, there have been a lot of controversies in this race. I have not seen one of them get such resounding condemnation from the Republican Party like this one. Trump supporters say Trump here is being Trump. What's different this time?
HEYE: Right now, we don't know if anything is different. The past few months with Donald Trump have been an outrage deja vue and Republicans have spent a lot of time criticizing him. He's a disaster for Republicans, as was in "The Washington Post" yesterday. I say that for two reasons. The Republican Party has had a problem appealing to minorities. This and his comment about Mexicans don't help that. Kate, you worked in the capital. You know what happened in the capital as reporters were chasing down vulnerable Republican Senators and vulnerable members of the House of Representatives, trying to get them on the record about Donald Trump. This isn't what they want to talk about. It's not what they need to be talking about. That's why it's a problem for Republicans.
BOLDUAN: Scottie, I want you to get you to weigh in on this. Is this a problem for Republicans? I know you're going to tell me no, but why? (LAUGHTER)
SCOTTIE HUGHES, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, USA RADIO NETWORK & COLUMNIST, WESTERNJOURNALISM.COM: I have to ask you, what Republicans are you talking about? The same Republicans that have lost the last few elections for the White House? The same Republicans that unless they appealed to the conservative grass root base that is the majority of Donald Trump supporters, they continue to lose? You have to realize, the GOP has been a splintered party for years now. It depends on who is the stronger numbers. If you look at it, all of these Republicans that my panelists are talking about, combine their numbers of their candidates, and it doesn't even equal the beginning of what Donald Trump has been able to surmount --
BOLDUAN: It does equal party leaders. Not often do you see Dick Cheney and Hillary Clinton agreeing on anything. And also you have Paul Ryan, a man who knows what it's like to run in a presidential election. He has been very careful to not speak out. He himself said he had to today on this.
HUGHES: Listen who you're talking to. The true conservative base of the Republican Party have very little faith in. The ones that have caused us to have immigration policies that has allowed ISIS to infill rate, recruit here at home and done nothing about it. The ones that have forced people like Donald Trump to come up with a policy like this to stop the killings within our own country.
BOLDUAN: We cannot necessarily, though, say at this point for sure that ISIS has infiltrated the United States, though. Scottie, we want to be very careful.
HUGHES: No, I agree. But here's the deal. We do know that she was an allegiance to ISIS. We do know people come into this country, that if that's the issue, if we're saying we're not worried about them here in our country, we should be fine making sure at this point until our system is fixed we don't include Muslims even though it's a very small percentage that are extremists, terrorists.
Since 2011, there have been over 35 killings in the name within the United States and the Muslim community is doing nothing to call, to help out. You have counterterrorism, FBI agents saying now they have had very little help from the Muslim community. Thanks to a lot of care. There's a lot of issues right here. Why not take a step back, let's stop this from happening on our own territory and open up. It's not permanent. It's temporary and in regards to immigration only. Not anything with U.S. citizens, emigrants only.
[11:40:43] BOLDUAN: Brad, have you already cut the general election ad?
BRAD WOODHOUSE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Yes. Scottie, hope you -- (CROSSTALK)
HUGHES: Good, I'm glad you have.
WOODHOUSE: I hope you keep talking. You and Donald Trump are the best thing ever.
Let me say this, Kate, I don't think the media should get carried away with this faux outrage from other Republicans. Paul Ryan said we should ban Syrian refugees from coming in the country. What Donald Trump is saying is not a big step away from Jeb Bush saying, we should ban Syrian Muslims --
BOLDUAN: Yes, it is, Brad.
WOODHOUSE: Wait a minute, Kate. Let me go through this now. Hold on. Everyone else had a chance to talk.
Now, Jeb Bush said we should ban Syrian Muslims. Only Christians should come in the country. Ted Cruz is holding a country. This hour on legislation that would ban refugees, i.e., Muslims, from coming in this country from nations where ISIS or al Qaeda holds territory. Marco Rubio compared Muslims to Nazis and Ben Carson compared Syrians to dogs. I mean --
HUGHES: Muslim extremists. You need to be careful with your words. It's not Muslims. Extremists, terrorists. You want to generalize it because it fits your stance.
WOODHOUSE: That is not what Donald Trump and the Republicans are saying. Scottie, that is not what Donald Trump is saying.
HUGHES: It's not the Muslim community. No, it is not.
WOODHOUSE: Donald Trump said Muslims should be banned from this country. Jeb Bush said Syrian Muslim --
HUGHES: Muslim emigrants. Once again, you like to leave out words that are --
BOLDUAN: And anyone of the Muslim faith who would want to be a tourist is part of that as well. HUGHES: Immigrants, tourism, until we get our system figured out, why
not? I will never get angry at someone that wants to error on the side of precaution protecting my family in my own --
WOODHOUSE: What Republicans are doing, Scottie, is stoking anger at the United States. I mean, you want a war with 1.6 million worshippers of Islam as opposed to getting them to help us fight --
HUGHES: Let me clue you in here. If I was a Muslim mother here in the United States, I would actually welcome this because it would help disseminate the stereotypes and root out the bad that has literally been the snakes in the grass in my own community.
BOLDUAN: I had a woman on just now, a Muslim woman, who was very upset because she knows her parents can't come in, in the next year, to come see her kids if this policy would be in place. She definitely --
HUGHES: I also don't want my children being targeted. I know and I understand --
BOLDUAN: Absolutely. You can absolutely say that.
Doug, let me say this, because fear mongering is something that isn't rare, isn't unusual and, honestly, we shouldn't be shocked it's happening in any presidential primary. This is what happens when people run for elections because scared people make them turn out to the polls.
I want to get your take on some of the response we've seen. Let me play quickly, this is what Senator Lindsey Graham said on "New Day" today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R), SOUTH CAROLINA & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know how you make America great again? Tell Donald Trump to go to hell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: So Lindsey Graham has no problem criticizing Donald Trump. Other Republicans piled on. Then you got this softer -- maybe you can call it a lukewarm reaction, from Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz saying, "This is not my policy." That was yesterday. Then saying today, "I'm focused on my policies." Though, he does say, "This is not the right solution. I don't think the world, though, needs my voice added." Those are some of the things he said. Talking truly just about the shrewd political calculus, is Ted Cruz playing the long game?
HEYE: People will tell you, Ted Cruz has been playing the long, smart game for a long time. He uses a NASCAR racing term, since I'm from North Carolina, he's really drafting behind crews -- or behind Donald Trump. If Donald Trump is to go into the pits, which I think a lot of people assume he will at some point, Ted Cruz is perfectly positioned to take those voters. Ultimately, again, we continue to talk about the latest outrage from Donald Trump. You know, this morning, "The Hill" newspaper published a story about how Obamacare will cost two million jobs in this country. That's something Republican candidates would sure rather --
BOLDUAN: Is that why we haven't heard from the RNC yet?
HUGHES: We haven't heard from the RNC, Doug. Why haven't they spoken out about Donald Trump's remarks?
HEYE: I can tell you, I have worked with the RNC.
HEYE: Their mission is to focus on President Obama and focus on Hillary Clinton. I want Republicans to be focused on President Obama and Hillary Clinton. We know she's going to be the Democratic nominee. We need somebody out there fighting against Hillary Clinton every day, even if we don't see it in the headlines because Donald Trump has said something once again.
[11:45:20] BOLDUAN: Very importantly here --
BOLDUAN: Go ahead, real quickly.
HUGHES: Real quick. Why is fear-mongering so one-sided? People in California were targeted because they were Christians or of Jewish faith and shot. That was a hate crime we saw in California. Why is fear-mongering just one-sided? The Democrats have --
BOLDUAN: There was no one-sided. It happens in presidential politics.
Importantly, I think we can all agree, if you make a NASCAR reference, he should also make an Indy 500 reference for me and my Hoosier state.
Guys, great to see you. Doug, Scottie, Brad, let's continue this later.
HEYE: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: Thanks so much.
Breaking news just into CNN. We want to bring you a standoff is under way right now at an airport in one of the biggest cities in Afghanistan. We're just getting this information in. We're told three Taliban gunmen, they opened fire near the airport in Kandahar. The gun fight is still ongoing, we're told. The Taliban already claiming responsibility, saying the gunmen carried machine guns and that they were targeting international forces. We're going to look for updates and bring them to you as soon as we get them in.
Still ahead for us, coming up, the terrorist mother who dropped off her baby, her 6-month-old daughter, before unleashing a mass car in California. She was once a funny girl who spoke about boys on the Internet. Stunning new details about Tashfeen Malik and her path to terror.
[11:51:11] BOLDUAN: New and vastly different views of the terrorist mother who dropped off her 6-month-old daughter before going on a shooting spree in San Bernardino, California. A former classmate in Pakistan describes her as a popular and funny and a jolly girl even and not very religious, but the professors say she was polite and visibly devout.
Our Saima Mohsin is trying to connect the dots of where there doesn't seem to be many connections. She's in Pakistan at a religious school for women.
Saima Mohsin what are you learning?
SAIMA MOHSIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kate, exactly how, when and where was Tashfeen Malik radicalized to the point where she was a shooter in the San Bernardino, California, shootings.
That is why I have come here to Multan to connect the dots. I have spent some time talking to teachers and spending time at the old religious institute, a religious institute specifically targeting women. They are supposed to teach a very social form of Islam, and talking about the Koranic teachings, and translating the Koran and teaching women about the basic tenets of the Islam and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad. That is what they told us.
I went inside of the seminary today to ask them about this previous student, Tashfeen Malik, and they weren't willing to speak on camera. I spoke to one of their spokespeople on the phone today. She told me that Tashfeen appeared to be confident, hardworking and positive-mind and what she called an obedient student. And she said that she had no suspicions, none at all that she was moving toward a radical path. I asked about the institute itself, does it teaches an extreme or radical form of Islam, and she aid absolutely not, we distance ourselves, and we condemn it, because to be a true Muslim is to not kill anyone. And they could not imagine that anyone like Tashfeen Malik, like the woman here in Multan could have become the shooter in San Bernardino.
More pieces to come together for this jigsaw puzzle, how and when did she become radicalized -- Kate?
BOLDUAN: How to connect the dots, and how did she get from here to there, and no one knows, it seems, at this point.
Saima, thank you. Great to see you.
And Donald Trump keeps reference specific polls when he talks about why he wants to ban Muslims from coming into the United States but the problem that those polls are widely viewed as shoddy and bogus. Hear who is behind them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[11:58:05] TRUMP: 25 percent of those polls -- and this was from the Center for Security Policy, and very highly respected group of people, who I know, actually. And this is people living in this country. 25 percent of those polls agree violence against Americans is justified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLDUAN: A stunning claim, but one that you will hear right there backed by the polls, says Donald Trump. What about those polls?
Joining me is senior media correspondent and host of "Reliable Source," Brian Stelter.
Brian, Donald Trump references the Center for Security Policy. This center has a checkered past, this center. And who are they?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT & CNN HOST, RELIABLE SOURCES: Absolutely. It's run by Frank Gaffney, who is a hard-line neo conservatives, who many will call an extremist, and in some cases, called Islamophobic. His group conducted this poll of 600 people, an online poll, and one of the rules of polling, if you conduct an online poll, it is not as reliable, and not scientific.
BOLDUAN: And you and I could do it?
STELTER: Yes, we could do an online poll Christians and find 600 different views of 600 people. So we report reliable scientific phone polls, and that is why the baseline data that he is sharing is unreliable.
BOLDUAN: And he also cited a poll by Pew.
STELTER: And Pew is highly respected.
BOLDUAN: What poll is he referencing there?
STELTER: Yes. We can't find it. He is not providing a link to the data. And the surveys Pew has done with Muslims all around the world is contradicting Trump's assertions. A vast majority of the Muslims are against ISIS and opposed them, and that is one finding of Pew that is counter acting from a man who is on the trail.
BOLDUAN: A man who breathes and dies by the polls, it seems that these polls don't stand up.
STELTER: And "Washington Post" calls it "shoddy" and that is a good word for it, "shoddy."
BOLDUAN: Thank you, Brian. Great to see you. It will definitely be a topic on "Reliable Sources" this weekend.
STELTER: It will.
BOLDUAN: Thank you all so much for joining us AT THIS HOUR.
"Legal View" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.