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End of Obama Townhall on Guns Replay; Review of the Event; Examining Donald Trump South Carolina Rally; Powerball Jackpot at $800 Million. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired January 8, 2016 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- we are creating a plot to take everybody's guns away so that we can impose Martial Law --
ANDERSON COOPER, AC360 SHOW HOST: Not everybody, but there is certainly...
OBAMA: ... is a conspiracy? Yes, that is a conspiracy. I would hope that you would agree with that.
OBAMA: Is that controversial? Except on some web site around the country?
COOPER: There are certainly a lot of people who just have a fundamental distrust that you do not want to get -- go further and further and further down this road.
OBAMA: Look, I mean, I'm only going to be here for another year. I don't know when -- when would I have started on this enterprise? Right? I come from the State of Illinois, which we've been talking about Chicago but down State Illinois is closer to Kentucky than it is to Chicago. And everybody hunts down there. And a lot of folks own guns, and so this is not like alien territory to me.
I've got a lot of friends like Mark who are hunters. I just came back from Alaska where I ate a moose that had just been shot, and it was pretty good.
So, yes, it is a false notion that I believe is circulated for either political reasons or commercial reasons in order to prevent a coming together among people of goodwill to develop common sense rules that will make a safer while preserving the Second Amendment.
And the notion that we can't agree on some things while not agreeing on others, and the reason for that is because well, the president secretly wants to do X. It would mean that we would be paralyzed about doing everything. I mean, maybe when I propose to make sure that, you know, unsafe drugs
are taken off the market that secretly I'm trying to control the entire drug industry or take people's drugs away, but probably not. What's more likely is I just want to make sure that people are not dying by taking bad drugs.
COOPER: You wrote an op-ed that just got published.
COOPER: A lot of people probably have not read it yet. One of the things you say in it is that you are not going to campaign for, vote for any candidate regardless of what party they are in if they do not support common sense gun reform.
OBAMA: Yes. I meant what I said. And the reason -- the reason that I said that is this. The majority of people in this country are a lot more sensible than what you see in Washington.
And the reason that Washington doesn't work well, in part, is because the loudest, shrillest voices, the least compromising, the most powerful, or those with the most money have the most influence. And the way Washington changes is when people vote.
And the way we break the deadlock on this issue is when Congress does not have just a stranglehold on this debate or -- excuse me, the NRA does not have a stranglehold on congress in this debate...
OBAMA: ... but it is balanced by a whole bunch of folks, gun owners, law enforcement, the majority of the American people, when their voices are heard, then things get done.
The proposals that we put forward are a version, a lawful more narrow version of what was proposed by Moe Mansion and Senator Toomey of Pennsylvania, a republican and a democrat, both of whom get straight-a scores from the NRA.
And somehow after Newtown, that did not pass the Senate. The majority of senators wanted it, but 90 percent of republicans voted against it. And I'll be honest with you, 90 percent of those senators didn't disagree with the proposal, but they were fearful that it was going to affect them during the election.
So, all I'm saying is that this debate will not change and get balanced out so that lawful gun owners and their Second Amendment rights get protected but we're also creating a pathway toward a safer set of communities.
[22:05:07] It's not going to change until those who are concerned about violence are not as focused and disciplined during election time as those who are. And you know, I'm going to throw my shoulders behind folks who want to
actually solve problems instead of just, you know, getting a high score from an interest group.
COOPER: We have time for one more question. And we talked about Chicago a little bit. We haven't really heard from young people tonight, no offense to those who have spoken. Because I'm in the same category as you are.
Sorry, father. But there's a lot of kids...
OBAMA: Sure, kid.
COOPER: ... there's a lot of kids, as you know, growing up in Chicago, fearful of walking to school, fearful of coming home from school.
COOPER: A lot of kids have been killed on buses. There's a lot of moms of kids who have been killed in the streets of Chicago. And I want you to meet Tre Bosley, he's 18 years old, he's a high school student, and his brother Terrell was shot and killed 10 years ago while he was helping a friend in a church parking lot. Terrell would have turned 28 years old on this Tuesday. What's your question, Tre?
TRE BOSLEY, BROTHER KILLED IN CHICAGO SHOOTING: Yes, as you said, I lost my brother a few years ago -- well, 10 years ago, and I've also lost countless amount of family members and friends to gun violence, as well.
And just speaking on growing up as a young black teen in Chicago where you're surrounded by not only just gun violence but police brutality, as well, most of us aren't thinking of our life on the long-term scale. Most of us are either thinking day-to-day, hour to hour, or for some even minute to minute.
I wanted to thank you for your stand against gun violence for not only the victims of gun violence but those on the verge of being victims of gun violence. And my question to you is, what is your advice to those youth growing up surrounded by poverty and gun violence?
OBAMA: Well, first of all, Terrell, I couldn't be prouder and I know -- is that your mom next to you? I know she's proud of you right now. So good job, mom. You know, when I see you, Terrell, I think about my own...
OBAMA: Excuse me, Tre. When I see you I think about my own youth because I wasn't that different from you, probably not as articulate and maybe more of a goof off, but the main difference was I lived in a more forgiving environment. If I screwed up, I wasn't at risk of getting shot. I'd get a second
chance. There were a bunch of folks who were looking out for me and there weren't a lot of guns on the streets, and that's how all kids should be growing up wherever they live.
I mean, my main advice to you is to continue to be an outstanding role model for the young ones who are coming up behind you. Keep listening to your mom. Work hard and get an education. Understand that high school and whatever peer pressure or restrictions you're under right now won't matter by the time you're a full adult and what matters is your future.
But what I also want to say to you is that you're really important to the future of this country, and I think it is critical in this debate to understand that it's not just inner-city kids who are at risk in these situations.
Out of the 30,000 deaths due to gun violence, about two-thirds of them are actually suicides. That's part of the reason why we are investing more heavily in mental health under my proposal.
But while the majority of victims of gun homicide are black or Hispanic, the overwhelming majority of suicides by young people are white, and those, too, are tragedies. Those, too, are preventable.
I'm the father of two outstanding young women but being a teenager is tough and, you know, we all remember, you know, that times where you get confused, you're angry and then next thing you know if you have access to a firearm what kind of bad decisions you might make.
So, those are deaths we also want to prevent. Accidental shootings are also deaths we want to prevent and we're not going to prevent all of them, but we can do better. We're not going to -- through this initiative alone solve all the problems of inner city crime.
[22:10:02] Some of that as I said has to do with investing in these communities and making sure there is good education and jobs and opportunity and...
OBAMA: ... and you know, great parents, and moral responsibility and ethical behavior and instilling that in our kids. That's going to be important. So this is not a proposal to solve every problem. It's a modest way of us getting started on improving the prospects of young men and young women like you, the same way we try to improve every other aspect of our lives.
That's all it is, and if we get started as I said before, used to be people didn't wear seat belts, didn't have air bags, it takes 20, 30 years but you look and then you realize all these amazing lives of young people like this who are contributing to our society because we came together in a practical way, looking at evidence, looking at data and figured out how can we make that work better?
Right now, Congress prohibits us even studying through the center for disease control ways in which we can reduce gun violence. That's how crazy this thing has become. Let's at least figure out what works and some of the proposals that I'm making may turn out are not as effective as others, but at least let's figure it out and try some things and let's just not assume that every few weeks there's mass shooting that gets publicity.
Every few months, there is one that gets national publicity. Every day there are a whole bunch of folks shot on streets around the country that we don't even hear about. That is -- that is not something that we can be satisfied with.
And part of my faith and hope in America is just that not that we achieve a perfect union but that we get better and we can do better than we're doing right now if we come together.
OBAMA: Thank you.
COOPER: Mr. President, thank you very much for your time. I want to thank everybody here who took part, everyone who made this vital conversation possible, President Obama, all our guests, George Mason University, everyone, thank you.
OBAMA: Thank you, guys.
COOPER: Thank you very much.
OBAMA: Good job, man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: Not something you see every day, the President of the United States going head to head with his critics on one of the most divisive issues in this country.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
Thanks for joining us. Douglas Brinkley, you were in the room last night, I want to talk to you about President Obama's legacy. I want to do in just a second. But also tonight, this dramatic moment from Donald Trump's rally in South Carolina. I'm going to talk to the Muslim woman who was kicked out of that rally.
But let's begin with President Obama and his legacy. Here is Douglas Brinkley. Doug, this was a remarkable Town Hall, wasn't it? The president facing his critics answering questions. What did you think about it?
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Very remarkable. And what I was very impressed with kind of milling around over there is how the president has been able to really reach out to survivors of all these tragedies of Tucson, you know, people like Gabby Giffords. I talked to people who lost somebody at Aurora or Virginia tech and he
sort of brought them all together and in many ways he is playing a healing role to these families that have been, you know, survive -- have to endure the mass shootings. And beyond that, I thought it was a wonderful form. I hope there are more of these kinds of Town Halls that the president does on this issue. Because I found it very useful and informative.
LEMON: As you know, being a historian, the president has to be concerned and at this point you see the president is concerned about his legacy. So, do you think his eight years in office will be defined in some way by gun violence and the fact that he is doing something about it, is it going to be a big part of his legacy?
BRINKLEY: A very big part. I wouldn't say it will be defined by it, Don. I think the fact that he inherited the recession and how the economy does by the time he ends and it's going to be a big -- a big deal. But there is no doubt about it.
When he ran in, you know, 2008, you had the District of Columbia versus Heller, the Supreme Court decision 5 to 4 based in Washington, D.C. that really said gave some life to the Second Amendment notion of the right to bear arms.
So President Obama is really the first president has had to deal with a very invigorated NRA like they've never been before, and at the same time having to deal with just this tragedy after tragedy after tragedy.
I keep picturing all the historic markers and all the spots of the fallen that we're going to, you know, have to erect and are erecting. So, it's a big part of what happened during the two terms of President Obama.
[22:15:00] And I think the Town Hall was an opening salvo of the president last night, and you'll see round two of the State-of-the- Union to start making this a legacy issue for his post-presidency not just his last year.
LEMON: Well, you know, the president admitted, Douglas, that entering into his last year that he feels humble because he realizes that change take a long time. The changes he proposed on Tuesday were pretty modest changes because after Sandy Hook he proposed bigger changes and nothing happened.
It's hard for presidents to -- for them to accept that they can accomplish everything that they wanted and it's hard for this president to do that as well.
BRINKLEY: Well, of course. But look at how he's stalking out that territory. Nobody is going to solve climate change very quickly but the president is making that a fundamental part of his foreign policy right now and gets a lot of heat for doing it from critics on the right. And now he's making on taking on the Second Amendment issue or gun reform laws in America. And that's controversial. But they come from the heart. I mean, the week started with the tears in the president's eyes at the
White House when he started talking about the first graders that were killed in Connecticut. And then it flashed us back to when he sang "Amazing Grace" in Charleston for the heinous crime that was there.
And I think we are going to see that in the history Barack Obama is almost becoming, what I've been calling a kind of griever in chief on these things. That we count on him to almost hand hold through some of these crises and it's very logical that he is not dropping this issue at this moment in time with 30,000 gun, you know, deaths a year.
LEMON: I'm sure you read this op-ed in the New York Times and this was before the Town Hall that he wrote this. So, and here's part of it. Here's what he says. He says, "Even as I continue to take every action possible as president, I will also take every action I can as a citizen. I will not campaign for, vote for, or support any candidate even in my own party who does not support common sense gun reform. And if the 90 percent of Americans who do support common-sense gun reforms join me, we will effect that leadership we deserve -- we will elect the leadership we deserve."
Do you think that this is going to be his cusp post-presidency, especially with his -- with his ties with Chicago?
BRINKLEY: I really truly do think it's going to be a big part of the Obama presidential library in Chicago. After all he's going to have to build that there, the library. But he's going to have to reach out to his hometown, Chicago that's hurting right now.
I mean, Spike Lee's movie "Chi-Raq," that came out and he did a wonderful interview recently on CNN. It's just awful what's going on in Chicago. And here is the presidential library is going to be in Chicago.
So, I guarantee that this issue is going to be one that we hear President Obama reminding us, talking, educating, going into schools, communicating with about -- for the coming years, it means something to him. His personality gets different when he starts talking about the senseless deaths that have occurred over the last seven years while he's been president.
LEMON: I'm wondering what kind of reaction this is going to get during the State-of-the-union. Because the White House will leave one seat in the First Lady's State-of-the-Union guest box empty on Tuesday. Douglas, that's what to represent the victims of gun violence. So, how much of Tuesday's night speech do you think that he's going to dedicate to this particular topic?
BRINKLEY: I think it will be a major part of it. I think it will also be very emotional if he starts calling on some of the families that have had to endure these mass shootings. And everybody will have to honor their presence in the room. It's very humbling.
Yesterday at George Mason I went up to a woman, I just said, oh, hi, I'm Doug Brinkley, and I see well, what are you doing here, and she said, you know, I lost my daughter in Aurora. What do you say to that? LEMON: Right.
BRINKLEY: And so, there is a kind of moral presence to the survivors and the president's become a leader for these families and it's a very interesting dynamic that's developing between these various non-profit gun control groups and the White House at this moment in time.
LEMON: Douglas before I let you go I want to ask about Bill Clinton and Tony Blair. The Clinton Presidential Library released the transcripts of phone calls and then person meetings between the two leaders. The president and the prime minister talk about everything from their children to Princess Diana's death to Vladimir Putin.
Clinton telling Tony Blair that Putin is, quote, this is a quote, "A guy that a lot of -- has a lot of ability and ambitions for the Russians. His intentions are generally honorable and straightforward but he just hasn't made up his mind yet." What's your reaction?
BRINKLEY: I would have been a little, I think it would have hurt Hillary Clinton's campaign a comment like that if Donald Trump hasn't been giving hugs to Putin in the last few weeks. So, I don't think he gets noticed much.
My take away from this batch of Clinton material is that it shows how close Clinton was to Tony Blair. You know, many people talk about Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher. I think there is a Bill Clinton- Tony Blair biography there. And this new batch released is grist for that mill. It was a special friendship the two developed.
[22:20:09] LEMON: Douglas Brinkley, thank you. Have a great weekend.
BRINKLEY: Thanks, Don. Take care.
LEMON: When we come back, why was this woman kicked out of Donald Trump's rally in South Carolina tonight? She tells me why she find the whole thing, the whole situation scary.
LEMON: And now it's time for the day in Trump. Donald Trump fired up a mostly cheering crowd in his rally in South Carolina tonight. But several protesters were taken out including a Muslim woman who sat quietly during Trump's speech.
CNN's Jeff Zeleny is there and he has the story. Jeff, a shocking moment tonight at Donald Trump's rally. What happened?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Don, it sure was. I mean, we have seen protesters at Donald Trump's rallies all over the country of everywhere he goes. But we haven't seen moments exactly like this.
And just to set the scene for you, about 30 minutes into the rally or so, there was a bit of a commotion happening behind the speaker, behind Mr. Trump. He kept speaking a little bit. But there was a silent protest. Rose Hamid, a 56-year-old flight attendant from Charlotte was standing silently just -- and the people around her were watching to see exactly what was happening as you could see from this video here.
[22:25:06] And suddenly a police officer escorted her out. But what I was most shocked by and she was making a statement she came to this rally to show Trump supporters what a Muslim actually looked like. And she was just like them and she's a, you know, a proud American as well.
But when she was escorted out and walked up the steps what I was struck by was how the crowd treated her. You can see it from the video there as someone has sort of did a hands down thing to her and other people were screaming, and all the way across the hall where I was standing some people were saying some very not nice things that I won't repeat here, Don.
So, that's what I was struck by how the crowd reacts when something like this happened. Of course, this is all been inflamed by the rhetoric that has been going on for the last couple of months or so on the campaign trail.
LEMON: Yes. And as you are speaking there we just saw the video of the guy giving her the thumbs down and at the end his wife sort of pulls him away. But there were a lot of people booing here as well. Was Donald Trump aware what was going on?
ZELENY: I do not believe that he was aware of exactly what was going on. But of course all of this was sort of a -- started with other people who are also being escorted out. It was kind of a series of protests.
So, he sort of stopped speaking for a while. But I do not believe that he actually knew specifically who was being led out, and Rose was sitting sort of directly behind him. So, I do not believe that he saw exactly what was happening.
And We actually asked his aides for a reaction why she was thrown out and they have not returned our request for comments, Don.
LEMON: Jeff Zeleny reporting tonight. Jeff, thank you very much. I want to bring in now Rose Hamid. She is the Muslim woman who was at that rally and who was kicked out and got some gaffed from the crowd. So, Rose, what happened?
ROSE HAMID, MUSLIM WOMAN KICKED OUT OF TRUMP RALLY: I'm not sure. I think that my purpose for going there as was mentioned that I wanted -- I have the sincere belief that if people get to know each other one-on-one that they'll stop being afraid of each other and we'll be able to get rid of this hate in the world literally.
So, that was really my goal, to let people see that Muslims are not that scary. And the people around me were lovely. There were people who were very nice, they were sharing their popcorn. It was very nice people all around me, the people I had conversations with.
But then what happened when the crowd got this like hateful crowd mentality as I was being escorted. It was really quite telling and a vivid example of what happens when you start using this hateful rhetoric and how it can incite a crowd where moments ago were very kind to me.
Actually one woman reached over and shook my hand and said I'm so sorry this is happening to you.
LEMON: Yes. So, you said that you wanted to show people at the rally that, you know, Muslims are just like you. But some people would say why would you even go and put yourself in that position, Rose, to be around those people?
HAMID: Because I don't want to think of them as those people. I think that's what the problem is. Is that we look at people and we categorize them as those people who are bad people and these people are the good people, and I believe that people in all camps are decent people when you get to know them as was exampled or was evident by the people who are around me, who were very lovely people.
But it's when you get that hateful rhetoric going is what incites people. I never felt truly threatened. I was not afraid of these people because I think I truly believe that the decent people would have stood up and not permitted that. That's my -- that's my belief. I believe that most people in the world are decent.
LEMON: So, what were they saying to you? So, because according to some other reporting they said they were booing you...
HAMID: But one guy...
LEMON: ... and shouting at you to get out. And they -- I mean, did one person really say you have a bomb! You have a bomb!
HAMID: Yes. One guy was saying get out, do you have a bomb? Do you have a bomb? And I said, no, do you have a bomb? So, no. They were saying ugly things. One person was saying God is great. And I like, yes, God is great. And one guy said Isa loves you, which is the Arabic word for Jesus. And I said, yes, I know, and Jesus loves you too.
So, it's -- the thing is that people don't even know what they're saying, they don't even -- they're just get ride up in the hate mongering and they don't even know what they're saying.
So, I basically feel sorry for them. They just don't -- they don't know what they're missing.
LEMON: So we hear, you know, Donald Trump he has told me, he tells, he has told and said in other interviews that he has a lot of Muslim friends. Do you believe that?
HAMID: I don't know. You have to define friends, I guess.
LEMON: Go on.
HAMID: I just don't know.
LEMON: You don't know.
HAMID: I just don't think -- I don't know what would he call a friend? And I don't know what -- so, I can't answer that. Do I believe that he has friends? Obviously he has business dealings with Muslims. But, you know, I don't know if he really knows what Muslims stand for, and I don't think that -- I don't even think he believes in the rhetoric that he's spewing.
[22:35:00] I think he's just saying stuff to get attention and to get his numbers up.
LEMON: Well, you're not the first person to say that. Because Donald Trump is, you know, a native New Yorker and there are -- there are plenty of Muslim people as there are all types of religion and ethnicities here in New York City.
But you said to me, I thought you said something that was very profound. You said I went there because, you know, I'm not these people, I didn't mean that term, but you don't want people to look at these people, you know, as these people.
But your treatment, were you surprised by how you were treated? Or did you think you are going to go and people were going to be accepting and embrace you?
HAMID: I think it played out like I had kind of envisioned. I knew that the people that I had made contact with would be decent, nice people. Because they -- when you make a human contact, that's what happens. But when you don't, then the opposite is what happens.
So, I'm not 100 percent surprised. I kind of -- I knew that -- I knew -- I've seen what happens before at other Trump rallies. But once again, I don't want to lump all of them as those people either. I think that everybody's redeemable. Everybody's got good qualities, it just depends what they are hearing and what they are being influenced by or allowing themselves to be influenced by.
LEMON: So, Rose, tell us about the t-shirt you wore. You wear the t- shirt to the rally and I think you wore the star, is that a star but I can't see it really clear? I have a very small monitor in here. And the star that you have.
LEMON: Tell us about it.
HAMID: Yes. It is a star.
LEMON: Yes, tell us about that. HAMID: Well, the t-shirt says it's a Salam, I come in peace. It's
from web site coolmuslimtshirt -- coolmuslimshirts.com. And it's just I thought it expressed what I wanted to say, which was that, you know, I shouldn't be feared, I'm not -- you shouldn't be afraid of me, I'm coming in peace, you know that old saying. And that's what the shirt is about.
So, I wanted -- I wanted to be visibly saying so that people wouldn't harass me. That, you know, I'm coming here peacefully and Islam is a peaceful religion and Islam is part of Salam. So, that is my focus.
LEMON: Is this yellow patch, is this is a star that is reminiscent of the one Jews wore during the holocaust? Is that -- is that what that is?
HAMID: Yes, it is. It is. Yes, it is.
HAMID: It is supposed to be reminiscent of that whole -- that whole concept of categorizing Muslims or putting Muslims in, you know, in a database and having them have special identification cards, it's very reminiscent of the Nazi mentality. So, yes, that's...
LEMON: What do you want people at that rally to know about you? Because that, you know, they didn't -- they may not be -- the may not have gotten to hear you speak then but now they may see this interview. What do you want them to know?
HAMID: I want them to know that they shouldn't be afraid of Muslims. That Muslim is not -- Muslims are not the problem. People who rant -- I guess extreme views on all fronts are the ones we need to be wary of. I'm expecting and hoping that people will learn more about what Islam really says. We have more alike. There are more things alike in our faith traditions than there are different.
We worship the same God. We worship the same -- or we honor the same prophet. So that's -- it's something that we -- they should not be afraid of Muslims. We're -- especially Muslims living in America. We're just trying to live the American dream, whatever that might be.
LEMON: Do you have a -- do you support a candidate right now?
HAMID: I'm still looking around. I'm still shopping.
LEMON: Would Donald Trump be among them, possibly?
HAMID: No. I'm sorry, but after -- I mean, he has -- he has some valid points. There are some things that I thought, you know, he has some point with but just his style, I think would not be a good -- a good place for America to be.
LEMON: Yes. Rose Hamid, thank you. We appreciate you coming on CNN. Have a great weekend.
HAMID: Thank you so much.
LEMON: Thank you.
HAMID: Thanks for having me.
LEMON: Of course. When we come right back, some surprises for Trump and Ted Cruz in a new poll.
[22:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: You saw the disruption tonight at Donald Trump's campaign rally in South Carolina when a Muslim woman was kicked out.
So, let's discuss this republican strategist Lauren Claffey, and Kayleigh McEnany, and Matt Lewis, author of "Too Dumb to Fail." Happy Friday night, everyone. Good to have you. Kayleigh, I'm going to start with you, your reaction to the Trump protestor, Rose Hamid, the Muslim woman who was escorted out of the rally. We just spoke with her. What is your take?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, POLITICAL PROSPECT EDITOR: Yes. I watched her interview. She seems like a very nice lady but what she did was not welcome at a rally. The protest was not OK and she deserved to be escorted out. You know, she was wearing the yellow star with the word Muslim on it. The implication of that is that Trump is like Hitler.
Hitler is a genocide old mania who killed six million Jews. That is not welcome rhetoric at a rally. And certainly, she is right behind the candidate. That's not OK. That's the protest that has stepped too far.
And by the way, it's worth mentioning that on a night when a man in Philadelphia fired 13 shots at a police officer and did in the name of ISIS, that Rose chose to incite folks at a rally rather than speaking out against this type of radical Islam that we see in the minority of the religion.
LAUREN CLAFFEY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think that Trump is being pretty consistent with how he's handled other protesters in this. The fact that she was a Muslim protestor shouldn't really matter. He's kicked out protesters in pretty much all of his campaign events so far.
I mean, in Vermont the other night he was threatening one man not to give his coat back, right, in negative 10 degrees. So, I think that what the girl -- or what the woman did was good. I'm glad that she is raising awareness for it and that she cares about, but at the end of the day, Trump's campaign is being consistent.
MATT LEWIS, "TOO DUMB TO FAIL" AUTHOR: I think what bothers me about this it's like a psychological and sociological example of mob mentality. You know, look, it's fine to remove her, have her leave for disrupting this rally, it's a private rally.
I think Donald Trump there is right. But the way that the crowd turns on her, the way that they get into this mob mentality, yelling things, I think it's unfortunate. It's human nature actually, especially if you have a charismatic leader getting them riled up.
I just think it's a -- it's nice a good thing. It would be nice for Donald Trump to calm things down at that moment if he knows what's going on to step in and calm things down.
LEMON: All right. Well, let's move on.
MCENANY: Just doing the case when he knew what was going on.
LEMON: Yes. He did not know it. And according to Jeff Zeleny, our reporter, he didn't know what was going on. And Lauren, I was told that it wasn't 10 below zero, so it was 30 degrees, but still, it still cold outside.
[22:40:08] CLAFFEY: Thirty degrees, even worse.
LEMON: Yes, it's so cold outside, not 30 below but just 30 degrees. So, Matt, you know, brand -- there is a brand new Fox poll out tonight. It is key states, Iowa, Ted Cruz is maintaining his lead coming at 27 percent. Trump is at 23 percent. Marco Rubio comes in at third 15 percent.
And in New Hampshire, Trump has a double-digit, a double-digit lead over the rest of the field coming in at 33 percent. Rubio is second, he's at 15 percent, not even double his numbers will equal to that. And then Cruz is third at 12 percent. Your reaction to these new numbers?
LEWIS: This is really interesting. I mean, we're obviously getting very close to Iowa. So, the fact that -- and New Hampshire. And so, the fact that Trump isn't just sort of maintaining, he's widening his lead in some cases, I think is really important. This isn't going to blow over obviously. We're past that stage.
I think the fact that Cruz is not just winning Iowa but he could be third or a close third maybe even, you know, or snag second in New Hampshire, that would be really interesting if Cruz wins Iowa and comes in second in New Hampshire. We know he is going to poise to do well in the SEC primary. So, Cruz could be off and running.
The other thing I think to note is how Chris Christie seems to have kind of disintegrated in New Hampshire. I think we all kind of thought that Chris Christie might have a moment. He might actually win New Hampshire and it looks like he is going the wrong direction.
LEMON: And national head-to-head poll of the match up in the latest poll, Hillary Clinton loses to Trump, Cruz and Marco Rubio. So, no doubt all three but especially Trump, who loves the polls are going to be singing from the top of the roofs, Matt. LEWIS: Yes, and, you know, it's funny. I think, you know, a lot of
people thought, well, OK, Donald Trump's not going to be able to win a general election. And so, that's -- we're going to make the electoral argument against him that sooner or later will tell voters, look, if you really want to win the election you have to go with Marco Rubio. Well, who knows?
I mean, this is a crazy year. You can't even really make that argument. I mean, there are numerous republicans who have a shot to beat Hillary and I think that Donald Trump for all the problems I have with him I'm not convinced that he couldn't win the general election.
LEMON: Say that again?
LEWIS: For all the problems I have with Donald Trump the notion that Hillary would trounce him automatically -- I think there is a lot of range. I think it's possible...
LEMON: Is that new?
LEWIS: I don't know that I've said that publicly, Don.
LEMON: And Bernie?
MCENANY: I've heard.
LEWIS: I don't think -- I don't think Bernie has much of a shot, honestly. But I think that's a different dynamic, because Bernie's not going to make it out of the democratic primary.
LEMON: Oh, my gosh. Lauren and Kayleigh, I'm sorry. I just -- I am -- I am flummoxed right now. Because somebody just said, someone actually finally admitted it television. OK. So, Lauren, Trump has been -- did anybody else want to comment on that? I mean, Lauren would you like to because I think Trump has more support than people realize.
CLAFFEY: Well, Trump has a lot of support because there are five candidates that are splitting the establishment vote. So, of course he is going to beating everybody in double digits right now is all of these polls.
Once people start to fall off assuming that they will fall off because everybody has so much money right now, you'll see the support coalescing around one or two candidates. And then Trump doesn't have as much as the lead. Those five candidates have 50 percent of the vote right now and Trump has 30 percent.
So, at some point this is going to give, it's just a matter of what happens in Iowa, what happens in New Hampshire, and the -- what's happening in South Carolina and...
(CROSSTALK) LEWIS: And a lot of the - a lot of the vote could go to Cruz, too.
That's another bit of saying. Look, I mean, if Huckabee drops out, if Santorum drops out, if Ben Carson doesn't do well, those voters probably go to Ted Cruz.
LEMON: Yes. Cruz had 20 and then Trump is at 35 nationally in that poll. Go ahead, Kayleigh.
MCENANY: Sure. And to Matt's point, it's worth mentioning that Donald Trump if you go and get Twitter feed right now you'll see a tweet of 20,000 people standing in Vermont in a line to see him.
That is half of a sold out stadium at a Major League baseball game in New York City. That is astonishing that people stood out in the cold 25,000 people to see this man. So, you are absolutely right, Don, when you say that he's got a lot of support, that people are underestimating.
They are all looking at national polls. That is a big mistake. He needs 270 electoral votes and he's got a lot of support and a lot of people who are going to show up that I think are unconventional republican voters.
LEMON: OK. So, here's the thing, when you say, Matt, that it's a different dynamic when it comes to Bernie Sanders.
LEMON: Because if you look at Bernie Sanders' rallies, right? He is drawing huge crowds they did in Hillary Clinton's, but he's not the front runner. And when you look at, you know, in the republican side Donald Trump drawing huge crowds but he is the front runner, right?
LEMON: So what gives here? What's going on, because the crowds, the young people love Bernie Sanders, they are showing up in droves but it's not translating, necessarily translating to the polls.
LEWIS: Well, this might sound a little superficial. I actually think Hillary Clinton could have been vulnerable this time around and Bernie is illustrating that, I just don't think he is the right man for the job despite the fact that he is...
LEMON: So, all those people want him to be the right man, and therefore it's like rah, rah, rah? Or what?
[22:45:05] LEWIS: I think the fact that despite the fact the he obviously is getting big crowds and that young people like him -- I don't think he -- I don't think he's a serious candidate who has a real chance to win the democratic nomination.
I telling you, if Howard Dean instead of running in 2004, if you can take the 2004 Howard Dean campaign and put it this year, then I think Hillary might be in real danger from an insurgent campaign. I think that Dean was a more plausible president. I just don't think Bernie, this kind of grandfatherly a avuncular socialist candidate is realistically could be president.
LEMON: I think you're wrong, I think you're wrong, that's what he would say. But, so, Kayleigh, I let you weigh in on that because I think you're the, you know, for all things Donald Trump would -- you heard the question I asked him, what do you think of that?
MCENANY: Yes. I think Bernie Sanders sealed his fate during - I believe it was the first democratic debate when he said let's stop talking about Hillary Clinton's bleep e-mails. And he used a curse word there. You know, the problem with Hillary Clinton, she is the vulnerable candidate but you've got to go after her negatives.
And it's commendable that Bernie Sanders is trying to run a magnanimous campaign and stay above the fray but that doesn't work. And when he did that he validated her and it didn't allow...
MCENANY... folks to get into some of the scandals that we see.
LEWIS: And the guy who does go after Hillary is Trump. And that's part of the reason I think...
LEMON: OK. I've got to go. I've got to go. But producers I really want to ask this question I want to talk about Matt Lewis' piece. Can we show Marco Rubio's boots please? So, you are wondering -- he's trying to figure out and you are. Why do people care about his boots and not ISIS? What's the answer here?
LEWIS: Well, there is three areas. One, is that they are trying to utilize Marco Rubio by turning him into a dandy, that this is like sort of a...
LEMON: Lauren is shaking her head.
LEWIS: ... a feet. I think the other angle that people talk about it is saying that he is short. I think we got this sort of machismo thing happening on the right - right now. And look, taller guys this is just fact, taller men make more money, taller men get more chicks, and taller men win more elections. And they are saying to Marco Rubio...
CLAFFEY: I just can't -- I cannot believe we are talking about Marco Rubio's boots. I mean, this is obviously a comment by Trump just to completely distract against anything, any gains that Rubio is making in the polls. And he is distracting any ways he knows how by emasculating him.
CLAFFEY: The comment is ridiculous.
LEMON: OK. So, listen, I have to say, I'm 6'8". And when I put on my cowboy boots I'm 7 feet tall. So, I like him. So, there you go. It's all about the heels.
MCENANY: I like him but he's not going to win in the South Carolina voters.
LEMON: He only -- he only wore them because of the heels to make him taller, that's it. I can tell you as a man. He wants to be taller. That's it. Thank you.
When we come right back, the jackpot for tomorrow night's Powerball drawing is an incredible $800 million. We can all dream but what are the real odds of winning?
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LEMON: The big Powerball jackpot now $800 million, the biggest lottery jackpot of all time. The drawing is set for tomorrow night at 10.59 Eastern Time. You know I'm going to be watching.
So joining me now is Chris Hogan, he's a financial expert who is the author of "Retire Inspired," and Walter Hickey is the lead writer for Lifestyle at Five Thirty Eight. I got that wrong. So, Walter Hickey, Walter Hickey with the man with the voice, right? Chris Hogan is the man with the voice. I got it all screwed up. It's Friday, it's been a long week.
So, Walter, you are self-reclaimed lottery geek. This is the biggest one ever, right?
WALTER HICKEY, LIFESTYLE AT FIVE THIRTY EIGHT LEAD WRITER: Yes. Well, in North America. We haven't had a lot of lottery really go anywhere near above $800 million so far.
LEMON: What excites you the most about this one?
HICKEY: Well, so, we -- since we don't have it we don't know anything about how many people are going to show up for it, right?
HICKEY: So, what we have now we made a model to basically estimate how many folks show up to buy a ticket. And it has worked so well so far. But we've never had something like this. So, we're just kind of working off extrapolation.
LEMON: Could be a billion?
HICKEY: It could be a billion if no one wins it. Yes. We've got a 23 percent chance that nobody wins this one. LEMON: Tell us about your special formula to pick the winning
HICKEY: So, it's my birthday and then my brother's birthday.
LEMON: Wow. Chris. The odds of actually winning the jackpot, one in 292 million. I have a better chance of being struck by lightning, eaten by a shark, and you know, on and on and on and on. So, why did just so many people buy into this?
CHRIS HOGAN, "RETIRED INSPIRED" AUTHOR: Well, I think it's the whole issue of having hope. The idea of winning that amount of money gets everybody excite. And like you said, Don, people forget the odds. You know, 1 in 292 million.
I've a better chance of growing a head of hair by the end of the segment than someone winning this thing. And so, you know, when you look at this what you want people to do is to start to plug in and get realistic.
I'd rather than work a plan that's really going to work by budgeting and getting out themselves out of debt and starting to invest. And so, praying on that hope gets people excited. What they do is end up getting Powerball fever and then they have the hangover, the let down the day after.
LEMON: Jesus, Chris, you are such a Debby downer. So, why, I mean, why is it such a bad idea? Why shouldn't people play?
HOGAN: Well, I think it's just better things they can do with their money.
HOGAN: I think I want them to do things that are going to pay off for them later. You know, the excitement of this, and you know, while looking at his stats talking about how many people bought tickets, you start to run on the numbers on this and you realize it's just people getting excited and they are having hope.
I'd rather they put their effort into a plan that is really going to work. But I tell you what, Don, I do have advice if somewhere were to win.
HOGAN: OK, you want to hear it?
LEMON: Yes, sir.
HOGAN: All right. If someone were to be that one in 292 million, I would encourage them to take a cash payout and then go get the right kind of professionals around them, an attorney, a tax professional. Well, you're going to need a tax professional because you are going to pay federal tax, state, and local tax. You are going to be taxed to death, so you need the right people around you and have a plan for giving. If you are going to win this thing I want you to be charitable and do something for your community and your right.
LEMON: Everyone asks when I buys a ticket, are you going to share with me? And I'm like, nope. I'm not going to share with anybody. Because if you really win people they expect you to share it.
All right. So, let's get down to business. The best way to pick the numbers, all right. Walter, what is that? Is that to let the machine pick the numbers?
HICKEY: Well, it doesn't really make a difference. No matter what you're going to have a 292 million chance. There is no secret formula here.
[22:55:01] What we're kind of looking right now is that there is a 77 percent chance that at least one person is going to win this lottery tomorrow.
HICKEY: It could be you. Yes, it could very well be you. So, there is really like, if you want to play it's $2. Spending money on the lottery is not a good idea consistently. But if you are going to do it once you're not paying $2 in order to win the whole bunch of money. You're paying $2 to kind of think about winning a whole bunch of money for a couple of hours.
LEMON: Have you bought tickets?
HICKEY: I bought tickets before, yes.
LEMON: Yes? Did you win?
HICKEY: No. I aggressively lost.
LEMON: What about you, sir, have you ever -- have you ever bought ticket, Chris?
HOGAN: Oh, in my past, yes. When I was young and silly. I'm focus now. I focus on Roth IRA's and things that make me money that necessarily cost me money.
LEMON: Yes. And as Walter says he is -- and he put because he is on 40 wonk.
HICKEY: Yes. My 40 wonk. I just got one of those, it sounds like a really important financial institution.
LEMON: So, then if no one wins how much is it go over to? It's going to be of course billion dollars. HICKEY: He has some question, yes. So, at this point, like I said
we'd never had a lottery at this big.
HICKEY: We can only kind of guess at this point. It would probably go over $1 billion based on the growth that we saw. The past time it was going up it was 600 million, now it's 800 million. It would not shock me if we get a billion lotteries. And fingers crossed, we kind of hoping for that.
LEMON: Thanks, Walter. Thanks, Chris. Great voice.
HOGAN: Thank you.
LEMON: Al right, guys. Have a great weekend.
LEMON: That's it for us tonight. I'll see right back here on Monday night. Anthony Bourdain, Parts Unknown starts in just a moment.
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