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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Glenn Frey Has Died At 67; Donald Trump Criticized For Wrongly Reading a Bible Verse; Blistering Attacks in Trump-Cruz Feud; Trump: Cruz is a "Very Nasty Guy, Nobody Likes Him"; Cruz: Trump Shouldn't Be Commander-In-Chief; Highlights of Fourth Democratic Debate ; Hillary Clinton on her Husband's Role If She's Elected; Hillary Clinton Praises Pres. Obama During Debate; Americans Freed by Iran Reunite with Families. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired January 18, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:08] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Thanks very much for joining us.
The breaking news tonight is sad. A founding member of the one of the most popular music acts of all time as died. Glenn Frey, guitarist and cofounder and co-writer for the Eagles was just 67-years-old and he was quite simply a rock star. From the mid-70s to the late 80s, Glenn Frey and the Eagles founded Don Henley wrote and performed songs that virtually defined how the rest of the country saw "Southern California" from tequila sunrise to the sunset boulevard, palm trees on the double album Hotel California who went platinum 16 times over, according to "Billboard magazine."
Just about everyone I grew up with has a copy or has their collection of greatest hits, which is America's bestselling album of the entire 20th century. More copies than the Beetles, Michael Jackson, Elvis or Sinatra. Glenn Frey had chart topping solo career as well which is why tonight so many people are walking around with so many tunes stuck in their head and all the feeling they (INAUDIBLE).
We will begin tonight with Sara Sidner at a record store in Hollywood where it's fair to say they sold more than a few records that Glenn Frey had a part in.
Sara, what do we know about the circumstances surrounding Frey's death?
SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He was having intestinal problems for quite a-while. Ultimately, his publicist says he died from complications from arthritis, also with colitis and pneumonia. To a lot of people, he was still a young man who have done so much, not just for the Eagles but for the industry. He was a perfectionist. You talk to anybody who worked with him and they will tell you there was zero acceptance of mistakes. Everything had to be perfect and not perfect for him but perfect for the crowd that came to see their concerts.
He was the co-founder of the Eagles. And they are playing the music here in (INAUDIBLE). This is the largest independent record store in the country. Lots of people here, you can hear the muni and it really does bring back a lot. For a lot of different generations, Anderson, you mentioned having -- I remember my mother had them and I didn't like the music at first. Now I can't get enough of it.
So over the years, there are so many people that are heartbroken. And you can tell that from going on social media. Everybody from Hughie Lewis to Mike Huckabee has gone on social media, on twitter and tweeted about how much Glenn Frey and the Eagles meant to then -- Anderson. COOPER: They were actually supposed to receive (INAUDIBLE) past
December. It got postponed because of his illness, right?
SIDNER: That's right. You know, this has been a shock to a lot of folks. I mean, first David Bowie and now Glenn Frey. He has meant so much and brought so much not just, like I said, to the fans but everyone in the industry. There is a lot of people are like wait, this is another person? They just simply can't believe it. There is a lot of love being shared for him and of course, the music. Never mind, he was an incredible, incredible musician. He played the keyboards, he played obviously the guitar. He also played the piano and he co-wrote many songs that became huge, huge hits, Anderson.
COOPER: Sara, thank you very for the update. For the California mellow that their songs may have evoked, the Eagles were behind the scenes, anything but peaceful or easy.
Joining us tonight by phone, Alex Gibney, documentary filmmaker, producer of an amazing documentary called "history of the eagles."
Alex, you are obviously got to know Glenn well during the making of the documentary. When you heard he died, first of all, what went through your mind?
ALEX GIBNEY, PRODUCER, HISTORY OF THE EAGLES (on the phone): Well, I was shocked. I heard that he got better. I knew that he had been sick, but I was shocked and surprised and greatly saddened. He was a good guy. And, you know, part of one of the great musical success stories ever and now following just a few days after David Bowie was kind of a - it was very tough one-two punch.
COOPER: He also just - I mean, seemed so honest and willing to kind of go there in the film that you made with him.
GIBNEY: He was honest. That was one of the things that really impressed me about and when we embarked on the film, you know, he said that he was willing to be forthright and encourage everybody to speak up, whether or not, you know, they got along with the Eagles or not. The Eagles could be the (INAUDIBLE) band even though the harmonies were the most (INAUDIBLE) sounding best ever. So that the one thing I appreciated a lot about Glenn. He was forthright and honest.
COOPER: Well, that was one the amazing moments in the documentary that you made. I mean, because you had film of them on stage and if memory serves me correct, Glenn Frey and one of the other band members are basically having a fight on stage and Glenn Frey is saying he's going to, I can't use the exact words I don't think on television but essentially beat up --
GIBNEY: Yes, yes, he's going to take him out and he's right after this song I'm going to take you out.
[20:05:01] COOPER: He's saying that in front of the entire audience.
GIBNEY: In front of the entire audience and while they are singing beautiful harmonies. It's an incredible moment.
COOPER: And the other band member actually as soon as the gig was over.
GIBNEY: Don Fielder.
COOPER: Ran off the stage and jumped into a waiting limousine and drove away so that he wouldn't get beat up.
COOPER: And I mean, just their history of how long they go back with each other and how they all started is extraordinary. And the sort of the ups and downs they had along the way, I mean, sort of how they found their sound, I guess.
GIBNEY: Yes, look, Glenn started -- Glenn and Don Henley started off as the backup band for (INAUDIBLE). And at some point the two of them, I think, decided they wanted to get a band together themselves. And Glenn and Don were the ultimate blue color songwriters who were determined to do good. And they knew, you know, I remember he asked Bob Seeger at one point but what if I start writing songs, they are going to be bad. He says, yes, they are going to be bad, but over time they will get better.
Glenn Frey and Don Henley were the ultimate practitioners of the idea that if you have what is a will, there is a way and they -- with their will, they found a way to be the most -- the bestselling band in the 20th century.
COOPER: I mean, it echoes kind of what Don Henley said in a statement tonight. He described Glenn Fry with a quote "work ethic that wouldn't quit." That really was his secret to song writing, to everything.
GIBNEY: Hard work. That sums him up in a nutshell. These guys were really -- Glenn was really all about hard work. And a sense of will and determination that if you busted your butt, you could make it someplace and that someplace could be big.
COOPER: How was it that they kind of found their sound? I mean, it wasn't that way from the beginning with them, was it?
GIBNEY: Well, look, they had a sound early on but took a-while for them to be recognized. One of their early producers didn't really get it at first. I mean, (INAUDIBLE), the famous Irving was always their champion. But their sounds really had to do with their voices. You know, they wanted to play rock and roll but it was really their sense of harmony and how those voices blended together not only Don and Glenn but also Randy and Bernie. That was the original incarnation of the band.
Those voices together made this kind of beautiful sound that at a moment when country rock was coming on strong really found a moment and an audience.
COOPER: And when you think of their legacy, I mean, what do you think it is in the cannon of rock music?
GIBNEY: I think it's -- I think it's two-fold. I mean, you can talk about country rock and the country rock sound and little canyon (ph). I really think it's about the dream. The dream of the rock and roll star, you know. That if you try hard, if you work at night after night you can really get someplace extraordinary. I really think it's about hard work. It is all about elbow grease as Glenn Frey said.
COOPER: Alex, I told you before we went on air, I just found your documentary extraordinary. I stumbled cross it on television quite by accident and I was stayed up late into the night watching it because I just thought it was so well done and so fascinating as frankly all of your work. So thank you for talking to us, Alex.
GIBNEY: Well, thanks so much, Anderson.
COOPER: Well, more now on the medical side of what happened to Glenn Frey, his battle with a combination of diseases that collectively strike tens of millions of Americans. For that, as always, we turn to our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
So Glenn Frey died from complications due to a number of illness, rheumatoid arthritis one being one of them, is that normally fatal in of itself? I haven't heard of that.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I don't think most people think of it as a sort of terminal or fatal disease, although it can be something that can shorten one's life span. I think that's how a lot of rheumatologists or doctors that specialize in this think about it.
I think when you think about this, this is an auto immune disease. Your body for whatever reason is sort of attacking itself. It can attack the joints, which is what most people think of when they think of arthritis, why your joints, your knuckles may get large, your other joints or knees, your hips, elbows, everything can be effected by this. But is can also affect blood vessels, for example, blood vessels around your heart and it can cause those types of symptoms where you don't get enough blood flow to the heart, for example, or through the lungs. We don't know specifically what was going on there. But that is some of the other effects of rheumatoid arthritis that can lead to an earlier death.
COOPER: And then another complicating factor is said to be acute (INAUDIBLE) colitis.
[20:10:01] GUPTA: Yes. Well, also colitis is another type of auto immune disease. In this case it affects the gut, the G.I. tract, the large intestines specifically. And again, when they said acute (INAUDIBLE) colitis, it could mean a significant flair-up of inflammation that could even cause rupture of the wall of the intestine that can cause bleeding. All these are sorts of things that can sometimes lead to an earlier death.
Now, I should point out these are diseases that can be very easily managed, as well. I shouldn't say easily but well managed, as well by simply not letting the immune system create as much damage in the joints or in the gut. But the medications can be tough on somebody. So was this a problem with the medications? Was this a problem with the disease for Glenn Frey? We don't know. We just know that in combination, these diseases and the treatment for his diseases they are saying led to his early death.
COOPER: And also pneumonia, which is obviously a danger for anyone who is, you know, compromised.
GUPTA: Right. So, when someone has auto immune disease, one of the ways that you try and treat it is to tamp down the immune system. The immune system is overacting. So let's decrease it a bit. But exactly what you said when you decrease the immune system a bit, you leave someone more vulnerable to infections. Your immune system can't fight those infections that can be a problem.
COOPER: And what an extraordinary life and extraordinary talent to die. I mean, at 67 years old is so young.
GUPTA: It is young. And I think there is a lot of people who may be watching saying look, you know, I have auto immune disease or it's in my family. Again, it can be a disease that's well managed. It can shorten people's lives. I mean, that has been well described. But you're absolutely right in his case, he does seem very young and my understanding was even active up until recently.
COOPER: Sanjay, thanks very much.
GUPTA: You got it. Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: Well, just ahead, two weeks and counting until the Iowa caucuses. Donald Trump tries to court the evangelical vote, messes up a bible quote in front of an audience as thousands of Christian college.
Later, Iran frees Americans in a prisoner swap. What we know about where they are now and how they are doing, coming up.
[20:15:47] COOPER: The Iowa caucuses are just two weeks away. On that Monday, the first formal ballot will be case in this presidential campaign. In this last push to win Iowa, the candidates according to key voting block there and beyond evangelicals, it is a group that Donald Trump has focused on, of course, for some time now, evangelicals. Today, he spoke to students at Liberty University telling them their
religion is under siege and tripping over an attempt to quote the bible. We will have more on that in a moment.
But first, a quick look at how Trump has talked about God and religion up to this point.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm a Protestant. I'm a very proud of it, Presbyterian to be exact. But I'm very proud of it. When we go in church and when I drink my little wine which is about the only wine I drink and have my little cracker, I guess that's a form of asking for forgiveness and I do that as often as possible because I feel cleansed.
Most importantly, I brought my bible.
I'm a good Christian, OK? Remember that.
The bible means a lot to me but I don't want to get into specifics.
That's my second favorite book of all time. You know my first is? The bible.
God will be very proud of me.
The bible is special.
I have great relationship with God. I have great relationship with the evangelicals.
We love the evangelicals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well, Trump often trumpets the size of his crowd. Today, he drew about ten thousand people to the Liberty University. All of the students didn't really have a choice in the matter.
Randi Kaye reports.
TRUMP: And my generals by the way, they are not going --.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Trump once again cording evangelical voters this time at Liberty University. Attendance for students was mandatory, even for those not supporting Trump like C.J. Wilson who doesn't buy all of Trump's talk about faith.
C.J. WILSON, LIBERTY UNIVERSITY STUDENT: If you're not showing fruits, and I honestly don't want a president like that. If you're proclaiming it and you are not like living it, it is kind of like -- I don't like that. KAYE: So would you vote for Donald Trump if he was the nominee?
WILSON: I wouldn't.
KAYE: Trump, a self-proclaimed Protestant, likes to say he has a great relationship with evangelicals and that may be true. The most recent polling from FOX News shows Trump leading among evangelicals nationally with 28 percent.
TRUMP: 2 Corinthians 3:17. That's that whole ball game where the spirit of the Lord, right, where the spirit of the Lord, there is liberty.
KAYE: Trump said 2 Corinthians instead of second Corinthians giving his audience a good chuckle followed by applause. Many Christian conservatives here are already bothered that Trump has said he doesn't ask for forgiveness from God.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm going to vote for the person who believes the same thing that I do and has the same moral standards. And so, that's definitely going to be a big deciding factor.
KAYE: Does that sound like Donald Trump to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It doesn't. I can't necessarily say that Donald Trump has the type of faith that I would put my vote for.
KAYE: These two sisters disagree. They like that Trump is pro-life, though he was once pro-choice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought that he has changed and he has been faithful since 2011 to that is enough for me. God is about change.
KAYE: Trump again called the bible his favorite book, and promised if he is elected, it will be OK to say merry Christmas again, instead of the politically correct happy holidays.
TRUMP: If I'm president, you're going to see merry Christmas in department stores, believe me.
KAYE: All reasons many here are willing to give trump a chance. This student prefers Ben Carson, but --.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would absolutely love to have like a godly man in office. But at this point I see the wave of Trump, the Trump train and the country getting behind him and I want someone we can elect that can beat Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders. So I feel like that's our guy. So I'm 100 percent behind Donald Trump.
KAYE: This student favors Carson too, but says Trump has his vote if he can protect Christianity as promised.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know where he is with the Lord. If he allows this country to continue with religious freedom, that's a huge thing. I think he is being persecuted today. I want to vote on a president that allows me to practice my faith every day. KAYE: In fact, even some who don't believe his values lineup with
theirs are willing to forgive him.
[20:20:02] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're all sinners, so who are we to judge him?
COOPER: Randi joins me now. Did he mention Ted Cruz at all during the speech there?
KAYE: Anderson, we certainly expected him to go after Ted Cruz hard here today because they are that bitter battle for the evangelical vote. But Anderson, he did not mention Ted Cruz once at all during his speech here at Liberty University. He was really focused on energizing the crowd. And they seemed to respond.
He had huge cheers in response to his comments about wanting to see a female president, a woman president one day as long as it's not Hillary Clinton and about building a wall at the southern border having Mexico pay for it and, of course, his comments about protecting Christianity. The group seemed to love that.
But he was really focused on winning and sending this very positive message. And I have to tell you, the crowd here didn't seem very focused on his faith. Maybe it's because it was a younger generation and it was the college students here. But they didn't really seem to care how many times he has been married and divorced or whether or not he goes to church every Sunday.
They love the fact that he is a businessman. They think that he can get the job done and that he can and their words make America great again, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Randi, thanks very much.
As you might have mentioned, plenty of people know the bible chapter and verse have been weighing in on Donald Trump's take on second Corinthians and Christianity writ large.
Russell Moore, president of the Southern Baptist Convention Ethics commission tweeted trading in the gospel of Jesus Christ for political power is not liberty, but slavery. He is the author of "Onward, engaging the culture without losing gospel." He joins us now. So that David Brody, chief political correspondent for Christian broadcasting network. He sat down with Trump earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID BRODY, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, CHRISTIAN BROADCASTING NETWORK: Already on twitter, there, you know, and even some of the campaigns are saying two Corinthians. You want to clear any of that up, just as?
TRUMP: Well, I actually over the years heard it both ways, but I would probably prefer saying Second Corinthians but I've heard it as you have both ways.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Dr. Moore, a, the question of two Corinthians or second Corinthians, is that important? And I'm wondering what overall you thought of how Donald Trump was introduced at Liberty University and how -- what his remarks, what impact it had?
RUSSELL MOORE, PRESIDENT, SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION ETHICS COMMISSION: Well, it doesn't bother me at all that Donald Trump said two Corinthians. I think we know that Donald Trump not a biblical scholar. And I don't expect him to be one, expecting to be authentically who he is. That didn't bother me at all.
What did bother me, though, is the presentation of Donald Trump as a man of character and as a man of faith with the introduction of by your fruits, you shall know them which is language that Jesus gives on the sermon on the mount, about how to tell when someone has an authentic relationship with God. I thought that was really tragic and a missed opportunity at a great school, fantastic school.
I don't object to Liberty having Donald Trump. One of their great strengths is they are not afraid of alternative view points there. But it was a missed opportunity for the gospel when you have someone as recently as yesterday is talking about the fact that he doesn't need forgiveness from God. And to stand up and to speak of him in that way without coming in and giving the impression that one is made right with God through faith and Jesus Christ, I'm more worried about the gospel than I am about this political election because the gospel of Jesus Christ is more important than the United States of America.
COOPER: So Dr. Moore, just based on when his comments have been publicly over the last couple of months, I mean, do you believe he has a true and deep and ongoing relationship with God?
MOORE: Well, I think what Donald Trump has is a Norman Vincent feel sort of therapeutic kind of main line Christianity. I think he has been very clear about that. That does not mean that he is not qualified to be president. I don't want evangelical identity politics because what tends to happen then is that politicians learn bible verses. They learn how to say second Corinthians and use that as a political tool.
What I do think we need is a candidate that has proven character to be able to lead and that's where my concerns with Donald Trump lye. Evangelicals have been saying for 50 years character matters. If character matters, then character matters regardless of who it is.
COOPER: David, I mean, you've been rather bullish on Trump's prospects among evangelicals. You hear what Dr. Moore is saying. How concern should the Trump campaign be that Iowa voters might have reservations about so-called character issues?
BRODY: Well, look. What I think that the trump campaign will talk with themselves probably explain the character issues as one of leadership. And you know, what Donald Trump at least in my take what evangelicals have been saying around the country is they like the strong leadership.
Look. Anderson, the reality is this. Donald Trump went in to this campaign with a narrative that was already cemented. That he was the 10 billion-dollar success guy, the art of the deal, he could get things done and he is a winner. That was the narrative coming in.
Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, all those other folks had to define their own narrative. And I think Trump was really ahead of the game all along. And so, along he comes with evangelicals. And I got to tell you today at Liberty, one of the big applause lines is when he said I'm tired of political correctness. The crowd went wild. And that was telling because that is a big part of the connection, Anderson.
[20:25:09] COOPER: Dr. Moore, do you define being a winner the same way Donald Trump does?
MOORE: No. I define being a winner according to Jesus' teaching in the sermon mount, which is following Christ, having a spirit that is conformed to his spirit and having a commitment to one's family, to one's community and that's where my concerns are.
I mean, Donald Trump talks quite a bit about leading, but the question is leading to what? And he talks a lot about winning, but the question is winning what? And we have seen just in recent days, I mean, using racially charged rhetoric posting false and racially charged statistics about African-American men, my brothers and sisters in Christ speaking about immigrants the way that he has, talking about women the way he has, this is -- this ought to be a wakeup call for anyone in this country who believes that we ought to have an underlying moral fabric to these decisions much less people following Jesus Christ.
COOPER: I want to play another clip from David's interview with Donald Trump. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRODY: You said in your book, you said it just a few days ago, I think it was with Jake Tapper. I have a great relationship with God. You said this. What is that relationship like? How do you see that relationship?
TRUMP: I feel very secure in my relationship with God. It's been a very strong relationship. I started at Sunday school many years ago with the bible that you have seen with my mother's handwriting on it with my address and, you know, never wanted me to lose my bible. And I just always had a very good, very special relationship. And I feel a lot of what I have accomplished if not all what I have accomplished is because of that relationship and feel very strongly about it and feel very strong about evangelicals. I feel very strong about my religion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: David, in your interviews with Trump, I mean, this is not the first time you interviewed him. Do you think he has change in what he says about faith or gotten better about speaking what he says is his faith?
BRODY: Well, Anderson, a couple things. Look, I have talked to him quite a bit about this from a golf course to an interview setting in Lynchburg today. And it is pretty much the same in the terms of what he is saying that he has a great relationship with God and that we are getting into this whole idea of trying to judge's one faith which we are not going to go down the road, obviously, and do necessarily.
You know, look, if Donald Trump was running for senior pastor at a mega church, I'm thinking he is probably not getting the job. But he is running for president of the United States and he is resonating with sick and tired evangelical voters.
There are three types of evangelical voters in this country right now, Anderson. You got the sick and tired evangelical voter who feel like they have been played as a political pawn in the Republican establishment's game. That's who he is identifying with or at least that's the ones he's attracting. Then you have got the solutions oriented evangelical voter, the ones that leave like more of a Jeb Bush type. And then you have the I wear it on my sleeve, my faith on my sleeve evangelical vote who really wants to see kind of most Christian, if you will, presidential candidate get in there that might be more like a Huckabee, Ted Cruz, or Ben Carson.
So these are the three dynamics. But here is the good news for Trump. The sick and tired evangelical voter right now at least dominating the field.
COOPER: Yes, Dr. Russell Moore, I always appreciate you being on. David Brody as well. Thank you. Good discussion.
When we come back, more on the evangelical vote. And today, notwithstanding, the war of words between Donald Trump and Ted Cruz.
[20:32:28] COOPER: We've been talking about Donald Trump and his effort to win evangelical voters, people can make or break Republican candidate especially in Iowa. Conservative Christians have been key to Ted Cruz' strength there.
Late polling shows him either close to Trump or slightly ahead in the Hawkeye State and as you know when it comes to Donald Trump, the competition is definitely not a case of love thy neighbor. He did not attack Senator Cruz today at Liberty University whoever he has been hitting him hard and Cruz has been hitting back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED CRUZ, (R-TX) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It seems Donald has a lot of nervous energy. For whatever reason, Donald doesn't react well when he's going down in the polls.
DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A lot of people do not like Ted to put it mildly. He finally went off the wagon a little bit and went a little crazy. CRUZ: I think in terms of a commander-in-chief, we ought to have someone who isn't springing out of bed to tweet in a frantic response to the latest polls.
TRUMP: How are you going to be president if you don't know about a million dollar loan from Goldman Sachs and you said it's something you don't know about? Now he doesn't know that he was a Canadian citizen? He's a nasty guy. Nobody likes him. Nobody in Congress likes him. Nobody likes him anywhere once they get to know him. It's not a good thing for the country. Very nasty guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Joining us now is Cruz Communications Director Rick Tyler and CNN Political Commentator, Jeffrey Lord, who in addition to being a former Regan White House political director, is also author of the new book out today, "What America Needs: The Case for Trump".
Rick, how concerned are you about these attacks from Trump? I mean, on one hand there are only two weeks left until Iowa and the other hand, there are still two weeks left until Iowa and there's a lot Trump can say and do in that timeframe.
RICK TYLER, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, CRUZ FOR PRESIDENT: Well, a few weeks ago Anderson, it's good to be with you and everyone was attacking Donald Trump and today everybody seems to be attacking Ted Cruz and predominantly Donald Trump and it just tells you one thing, is that we're doing well in the polls and Donald Trump doesn't like that. And so, he switches to invective instead of talking about the issues that people care about.
ANDERSON: Are the attacks though having an effect on those polls do you think? Because I mean, your candidate was higher in the polls, Trump has come up closer. Do you think it's had an impact?
TYLER: From what I can tell, it really hasn't had an impact. I mean, the birther issue is just nonsense. In fact, when people understand it and explained it actually is marginally helpful. So -- but not that I would choose the attack but none of these attacks have really impacted us at all.
The other thing I would say is that even if we were even -- and I would not trade Donald Trump's supporters for ours supporters in a sense that, you know, we know our supporters are organized and they're ready to go.
[20:35:00] And so, we're looking for great caucus day and we're looking for all of our voters to turn out. I think they'll turn out come, you know, snow, rain, wind, they will be there.
COOPER: Jeffrey, I mean, do you think Donald Trump has that level of intensity of support on the ground in Iowa?
COOPER: You do? LORD: I do, I do, I do. And yes, (inaudible) working for him who really is as Donald Trump's campaign manager said the other day, this is like the Super Bowl for him. I mean, he loves this stuff. He's really good at it. He delivered Iowa for Senator Santorum four years ago. He knows the state very well. He knows evangelicals very well. He knows the voting...
COOPER: But there was -- there were (inaudible) at times which sort of raised a lot of questions about that kind of a depth of his organization.
LORD: Right, right. And we're going to find this out, Anderson, one way or another and the thing that I always say, whether Donald Trump wins or loses or anybody else wins or loses, Iowa has never been a very good predictor of the eventual winner. We've had winners like Santorum and Huckabee as we discussed who never go anywhere and loses like Ronald Reagan who go all the way.
Ronald Reagan lost in 1976, not only lost Iowa, he lost the next five primaries, regained his footing and came within, you know, 117 votes.
COOPER: Rick, this whole debate over New York values, I mean Ted Cruz says Trump is in line with liberals. Trump says, look, Ted Cruz got loans from Goldman Sachs and City Bank. He had a fundraiser in Manhattan hosted by a gay couple and Trump says Cruz is being hypocritical. How do you respond to that?
TYLER: How do I respond to the critics about New York values?
COOPER: Yeah. Or that he's being hypocritical.
COOPER: The criticism that he's being hypocritical, getting loans, coming to New York to raise money.
TYLER: Look, Ted Cruz entering the senate race partially self-funded his campaign, the concept that Donald Trump is certainly familiar with and look, people sign up to us. By the way, we raised more money in Iowa than we have in Manhattan. So, the idea that always big money coming out of New York is not --just simply not true.
COOPER: When you hear Jeffrey say that he thinks Donald Trump does have the organization on the ground, I mean do you have -- what's your indication that you have a better organization, that the depth, the commitment of people to actually come out and caucus for Cruz is greater than for Trump?
TYLER: Well, he would know better than I would about his own organization but I know in our organization, you know, we have 18 -- we have 1800 precinct workers to cover 1300 and something precincts. We have all 99 counties covered with chairs. We have 250 pastors. We have as of this -- yesterday, we had over 12,000 volunteers. We leased a dormitory and when that wasn't enough, we had to lease a second dormitory and that's not enough so now we got to lease hotel rooms for the more than 700 people that are coming to Camp Cruz to work on the campaign. These are people from out of states in the surrounding states who decided they want to help Ted Cruz win Iowa.
So, we just had enormous support. We just finished a 28-day or a six- day, 28 county tour and in these little towns, these huge crowds have come out and these are not people testing the waters. These are people who've dove in the deep end. So people are really excited about the campaign. So we're looking forward to these two weeks getting over and winning Iowa. We sure hope so. But we're not taking anything for granted. We'll be back there in a couple days and we'll finish it out.
COOPER: All right. Jeffrey Lord, Rick Tyler, guys, thank you very much. Appreciate it.
TYLER: Thanks Anderson.
COOPER: And also want to congratulate Jeffrey on his book again. It's called "What America Needs: The Case for Trump" just out today.
Just ahead Bill Clinton wasn't on the stage last night's democratic debate. He wasn't even or in the room but loomed large Hillary Clinton flat out said she'd asked for his advice and ideas if she's elected president. Does that revelation help or hurt her odds? We'll be right back.
[20:42:31] COOPER: Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders took off the gloves at last night's democratic debate. It was their fourth and most contentious face-off. Healthcare, Wall Street, and yes Bill Clinton, were all on the stage, fair game.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are things we can do to improve it, but to tear it up and start over again, pushing our country back into that kind of a contentious debate I think is the wrong direction.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I-VT) DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're not going to tear up the Affordable Care Act, I helped write them but we are going to move on top of that to a Medicare for all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Andrea (ph).
CLINTON: I'm going to defend that Frank and I'm going to defend President Obama for taking on Wall Street, taking on the financial industry and getting results.
SANDERS: Secretary Clinton and you're not the only ones, I don't mean, they just point the finger at you. You've received over $600,000 in speaking fees from Goldman Sachs in one year.
Yes, this behavior was deplorable. Have I ever once said a word about that issue? No I have not. I'm going to debate Secretary Clinton and Governor O'Malley on the issues facing the American people, not Clinton's personal behavior. (END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Well that was the only time -- that was not the only time I should say that Bill Clinton came up in the debate. The NBC moderator, Lester Holt pressed Mrs. Clinton about the role her husband might play if she were elected.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LESTER HOLT, NBC ANCHOR: You have said that President Clinton would advise you on economic issues but be specific if you can. Are you talking about a kitchen table role on economics or will we he have a real policy role?
CLINTON: Well, it will start at the kitchen table. We'll see how it goes from there. And I'm going to ask for his ideas, I'm going to ask for his advice, and I'm going to use him as a goodwill emissary to go around the country to find the best ideas we've got. Because I do believe, as he said, everything that's wrong with America has been solved somewhere in America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Oh Bill Clinton was stumping in Iowa over the weekend. He's been playing a more visible role on his wife's campaign. On the trail, he's been telling voters his wife will be able to find common ground with Republicans if she becomes president.
Joining me now is CNN Political Commentators, Paul Begala and Peter Beinart. Paul is a democratic strategist and adviser to a pro-Hillary Clinton super PAC. Peter is a senior fellow at the New American Foundation and contributing editor at Atlantic Media.
Paul, so Clinton's comments last nigh about President Clinton, doesn't that open the door all the way for criticism and scrutiny? Doesn't that make him and his past even more fair game?
PAUL BEGALA, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Anderson, if they can attack Bill -- this is what they do on the right. This is what people do. They -- nothing is going to keep him out of it anyway.
[20:45:05] He's, I think, one of the most gifted politicians of our life but the controversies he had to put it mildly they're baked in, everybody knows. Literally as I was coming up to do this interview. I'm in Houston visiting my family. My 15-year-old niece Kathryn, 15, she was not born when those scandals happened. So well they kind of asked my work for President Clinton and he had these problems, he's in White House honey. And she rolled her eyes, Uncle Paul, I know all about Monica Lewinsky. OK.
The whole world knows. When they discover intelligent life in the world full of galaxy 30 million light years from now, that intelligent life will go. Oh you're form earth, that's where that Clinton guy had those affairs. So it's totally baked in. So I'm totally -- I'm absolutely not worried about it. Let's use him like Hillary use him for all the good. He represents peace and prosperity, what's wrong with that.
COOPER: It is and she'd appear though. I mean, this is the first time Secretary Clinton has kind of really tried to talk about or define I guess or she was asked about the exact role he would play. Should he be scrutinized, the former president, just as any potential adviser to the president will be?
PETER BEINART, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, ATLANTIC MEDIA: Yeah, he's already been scrutinized. I mean, I agree with Paul. I mean, we know pretty much everything there is to know about Bill Clinton. A lot of Americans hate him but Democrats love him and that's the group of people that Hillary Clinton has to appeal to now and even overall, you know, he's more popular than Barack Obama is.
So if you have to be hitched to someone's star, that's not a bad star to be hitched to. I think the only problem for Bill Clinton to come is if he creates disarray in her campaign strategy because he goes off messages as he did in 2008. That was a bit of a problem but so far this time, you have to give the Clinton campaign credit. They've been very disciplined. He's been very disciplined. He's been on message.
COOPER: I want to ask you Paul you about something else from last night's debate. Secretary Clinton, I mean it was hard not to notice just how big of a bear hug she gave to President Obama praising Obamacare, defending him when it came to Wall Street reform. How much is this former praise to the president directly related to our poll numbers in Iowa and New Hampshire, her need of African-Americans to turn out in South Carolina. I mean just a few months ago, she was very clear in saying she wasn't running for President Obama's third term?
BEAGALA: Right. The model is the only kind in our lifetime that a party won three in a row, and that was George H.W. Bush who succeeded Ronal Reagan. He was of course Bush's -- Bush was Reagan's vice president and he deeply opposed Reaganomics. He called it voodooeconomics (ph). But when he ran, he said, "I'll be like Reagan just kinder and gentler.' And I think that's kind of what Hillary was saying last night. I'm going to be continuing Barack Obama's policy but, you know, a little more hawkish frankly, which she didn't get into as much last night. She'll have her differences but she served in his government. She endorsed him. She ran hard against him, but then endorsed him and joined his government. She couldn't run away from him if she wanted to and did a smart politics. He's terribly popular with the Democrats and by the way, he is right almost 50%, I think 49% approval rating with all Americans.
But South Carolina last night, that's a state with the primary. The last time we had a contested primary there, 55% of the voters were African American and they have about 90% approval rating of Barack Obama, so very smart politics but also I think it's authentic.
COOPER: Peter though smart politics in the primary, but in the general if needing to get independence, some may be turned off by that.
BEINART: Well I think Paul is right that you have to distinguish between domestic and foreign policy. On domestic policy, I think she's more comfortable on running on Barack Obama's record to extend what he did. On foreign policy, I think that's where frankly she is more hawkish. I think there is genuinely more distance between the two of the member. That was a big issue in 2008, that she was more hawkish and it's also politically where I think the Obama record is a little more vulnerable. But on domestic policy, which is really the bulk of the debate last night, I think she's in pretty safe shape running on Obama's legacy.
COPPER: It was interesting to watch the debate though. I mean, there were certainly a lot of mudslinging Paul between the Secretary and Senator Sanders. I mean, the days of playing nice sure seem to be over, you know, it's a far cry from the early days of the campaign when Clinton barely mentioned Sanders' name on the trail.
BEGALA: Yeah, it was not mudslinging, at all. In fact the two of them...
COOPER: It was punching.
BEGALA: There were no personal attacks.
BEGALA: Yeah, they're punching, which thank God.
COOPER: I know you're for.
BEGALA: I'm totally for the earlier debates were very brainy but they were sponsored by Sominex or Ambien or something, put you to sleep. Now at least they're having honest debates and especially the gun issue. There they were seven months to the day after that terrorists murdered those wonderful Christians at Mother Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, blocks away from that church.
And that's a real issue to democrats. It's a real issue and it's one where there is -- one of the few, where there's a clean difference. It's the only corporate issue that I know of where Bernie Sanders was on the side of the corporations, not the consumers. He voted to lift gun manufacturers above the law so that they couldn't be sued, and that's the thing that I think Democrats kind of have a big problem. Bernie tried to walk that back last night I think very wisely. Again my advice to him after the debate is just say I was wrong. It happens. People cast bad votes. Just say look, I was wrong to do that, I'm going to set it right.
COPPER: Paul Begala good to have you on, Peter Beinart as well.
[20:50:02] Just ahead, new details tonight about the prisoner swap that's reunited four Americans with their families, what Iran got in exchange and how that deal came together.
COOPER: Well tonight, we're learning more about the prisoner swap between the U.S. and Iran including how long it was in the works. Since Saturday, Iran has freed five Americans, four of them as part of the swap in return to US pardon their community sentences of seven Iranian or dual citizen prisoners and dropped charges against 14 other Iranians. These are some of the first images the American reuniting with their families.
Our Chief National Correspondent Jim Sciutto joins me now. So what's the latest on the freed American prisoners and do we know what kind of treatment they actually got while in Iran?
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: We're just getting the first signs of that. To be clear, we got three who is now at this military base in Germany. That's Jason Rezaian, the Washington Post reporter, he was there for nearly year and a half in prison.
Amir Hekmati, the former U.S. Marine more than four years in prison for him and Saeed Abedini, the Christian pastor for three years. So they've got physical tests to go through, they also have psychological tests. It's stressful number of years for them. But I having been speaking to families and they could be moving on to the States just in a matter of days.
And when you speak to them -- for instance I spoke to Ali Rezaian, Jason Rezaian's brother this morning and he had been pretty shy about sharing details what they know about treatment while he was in Iran because (inaudible) didn't want to disturb any chances to get him out. But he's saying that they were constantly manipulated and right up to the moment they left the country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:50:09] ALI REZAIAN, BROTHER OF JASON REZAIAN: The Iranians as they have done all along continued to manipulate them, continued to try and mess with them and prevented the idea from leaving for some period time but thanks to the Swiss and thanks to the Americans she came home with them as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: The point was they were on the tarmac on Saturday night ready to fly out of the country Anderson and Jason's wife and mother were meant to be on the plane. The Iranian said, "No, we're not letting you on the plane." In fact they took them away from them Jason, American diplomats didn't know where they were. Americans dug their heels and said, this deal is off unless they're on that plane. Eventually the Iranians relented, but there was a number hours not until Sunday in the end that they got out of it.
COOPER: Wow. One American is believed to still be in Iran as Robert Levinson, do we know more about him at this point?
SCIUTTO: I'm going to tell you, you know, this has been frustrating for American diplomats involved but God knows for the family. I was able to speak to his mother and his son today. 2007, he disappeared on Kish Island doing some work it's believe for the FBI, he was a former FBI officer. His family says he was working for the CIA at the time Iranian military acknowledged in public that they had him, but then he sort of disappeared into the system and now the Iranians are saying they never had him.
The Americans say that they have an agreement with the Iranians to share information, a commitment from the Iranians to continue looking for him, but I'll tell you, you speak to the family, they told me today it's nonsense, in their words, that the Iranians don't know where he is, what his fate is, but the trouble is it's been a number of years since they have a proof of life. So there's even some question sadly, you know, whether he's still alive. It's really a continuing problem God knows for the family but also I know American diplomats want to know what exactly happened to him.
COOPER: Jim Sciutto, thanks very much.
Up next, we have another live hour of 360. We're two weeks to go until the Iowa caucuses. Donald Trump, Ted Cruz battling for the top spot in the GOP field stepping up the war of words. Trump says Cruz is a nasty guy and nobody likes him. That's what Trump is saying.
Today, Cruz responded. That's next.