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Donald Trump Due to Speak in Vegas; Bill Clinton Stumping for His Wife; Bernie Sanders Surging Past Hillary Clinton in New CNN Iowa Poll; The Republicans and the Democrats Rolling Out Big Guns on the Road to Iowa; CNN Special: "The Person Who Changed My Life". Aired 10- 11p ET
Aired January 21, 2016 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: Take a look at this, live pictures now at the Venetian Resort Hotel casino in Las Vegas, Nevada where Donald Trump is due to speak at any moment now.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
We're going to take you to Trump event as it happens. Also, Bill Clinton stumping for his wife just a few minutes away and speaking shortly as well. All the campaigns kicking it into high gear on the road to Iowa.
In our brand new poll show -- shows that two -- a two third -- or a two-man race, I should say, on the GOP side with Trump at 37 percent, Ted Cruz at 26 percent. So, it is no surprise Trump and Cruz are duking it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Guys like Ted Cruz will never make a deal because he is striking like, no, you cannot have that!
TED CRUZ, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This past week, as our poll numbers have surged as Donald's numbers keep dropping he's getting more and more rattled. And each day, he's engaging in more and more personal attacks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Meanwhile, as we count down to our democratic presidential Town Hall, Bernie Sanders has an eight-point edge over Hillary Clinton. And this race is really, really heating up.
There's a whole lot going on tonight as you can see alive and we're expecting to hear again from Donald Trump at any moment, Bill Clinton. The candidate is renewing his attacks on Ted Cruz today, Donald Trump at least. That brings us to the day in Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: Cruz is going down. He's going down. No, he's having a hard
time. He looks like a nervous wreck. He's going down. He had his moment. He had his moment and he blew it. But he's, you know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: To bring in now Larry Sabato, he is the director for the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia. Hey, Larry, thanks for joining us tonight.
LARRY SABATO, VIRGINIA UNIVERSITY CENTER FOR POLITICS DIRECTOR: Sure, Don.
LEMON: Let's talk about this new CNN/ORC poll out in Iowa tonight. They are among voters who say that they are likely to be caucus goers on February 1st. And look at that, Trump's 37 percent to Cruz's 26 percent. But then look at what happens when you poll only the people who caucused last time, 30 percent to 28 percent.
You say that Trump's campaign is not that well-organized in Iowa compared to Ted Cruz. What went wrong and can they change that with just a week and a half to go here?
SABATO: Well, no. It's too late to do the kind of intensive door to door canvassing that you really need six months or eight months or a year to do. So, look, that's why I think it's still very close and competitive. Don, it's perfectly obvious why Cruz would have dropped a certain number of points.
He has been attacked from every conceivable quarter and one starts to get the sense that maybe this wasn't accidental or coincidental. There are so many people in Washington out to get Cruz and people say they don't like Trump either. Here's the difference,
Trump is 69 years old. He either wins this time or he's out. He's not going to be back running for president at least. Ted Cruz is 44. He can run again and again and again and again. And so, they would rather get Cruz out, take their chances on Trump, try to get him derailed later in the process.
LEMON: But you said that Trump's voters in Iowa are -- that his new voters are motivated and committed there. But you said he should have started earlier?
SABATO: Well, he should have started organizing on the ground earlier.
SABATO: I mean, the ground game matters so much in Iowa because the numbers showing to -- showing up for these caucuses, Don, are tiny compared to, you know, the three million population. You'll have 100,000 to 200,000, one would assume in each party. That's a small group of people.
So, you have to know who they are. You have to get them there. You have to convince them to do it at the last moment if it's a really cold night, you know, in an Iowa winter. They have to spend two or three hours and some of them get cold feet because -- and I don't mean because of the weather.
They get cold feet because they have to declare their preference in public in front of their friends and neighbors. This isn't a primary where you go into a voting booth and you get to punch a card and nobody knows who you voted for.
LEMON: But Larry, let me ask you this, do you think -- do you think that Iowa voters, or caucus goers are going to be more traditional. Because there's been nothing traditional about this campaign. And I'm wondering what I'm asking you is can Donald Trump break the rules when it comes to caucuses as well?
SABATO: Well, he could. He could. Look, I have about as much chance of guessing exactly what's going to happen 10 days from now as, you know, an astronomer does of finding that big new gas ninth planet circling the sun.
[22:05:06] I mean, it's difficult. It's nearly impossible. And people keep forgetting that over the years, over the decades, about 40 to 50 percent of these caucus goers haven't made up their minds firmly. They enjoy upsetting the polls. They enjoy and -- this is is terrible, I think. They enjoy making fools of the pundits. And they can change at the last minute and many of them will.
LEMON: OK. Let's get -- can we look at the democrats now, because Sanders is leading Clinton in Iowa. take a look at this, 51 percent to 43 percent and there is Martin O'Malley down there with 4 percent.
But again, if you look at the people who voted last time, Hillary Clinton wins. I wonder if this is going to be deja vu all over again.
SABATO: Yes. That's obviously in the Clinton camp they are having these nightmares about 2008 all over again. But the reason I think Bernie Sanders has a better case here, that is that he can pull out all these new voters, is because he has had the ground game in Iowa for many, many months. They have done the hard work.
They know who they have to get out. Many of them are young people. We've seen it over and over again. The last case being Obama himself in 2008. So, it's credible. It's believable that he could pull this off.
LEMON: All right. So, who do you think it's going to be, though? The million-dollar question, which one is it going to be?
SABATO: Well, for Iowa, I think Sanders has a good chance to pull the upset. I think the same thing will be true in New Hampshire. For the nomination, Hillary Clinton will get it unless she gets into some legal trouble at which point it won't be Sanders, it will be Biden.
LEMON: What is the red flag that you're saying that Hillary Clinton is facing? SABATO: That she doesn't seem to be able to energize and communicate
passion to democrats. I thought the fact that she would be the first woman nominee and potentially the first woman president, would be enough to really get enough new people active or get them excited. But it hasn't happened so far.
LEMON: Is that where Biden comes in? You mentioned Biden, is that where he comes in and do you actually think that that is really viable at this point?
SABATO: Oh, I'd say it's a 20 percent chance. But Don, suppose she's indicted -- I don't think she will be. But supposed she is, of course they'll draft Biden. They don't have another choice.
LEMON: Not even Elizabeth Warren? Is that another choice?
SABATO: No. No, I think it will end up being Biden. Look, vice presidents by nature are stand by equipment. That's what he is.
LEMON: Explain to me why -- let's move on and talk more about Iowa, why Iowa is different. How much of a time commitment do caucus goers have to make the night of February 1st. As you said you're concerned about weather and all that. But how much of a time commitment is it?
SABATO: Well, it depends on which caucus. There are so many of these caucuses around Iowa. In some of them in rural areas you have to travel a fair amount of time. If there is a big turnout it takes a long time to organize the caucus and to make sure that it runs properly. Other ones maybe it's over in an hour. I would say two hours would be the most likely result. That's a lot of time.
LEMON: Yes. It's not just like going to the polls and casting a ballot. It is a lot of time. Larry Sabato, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
SABATO: Thank you, Don.
LEMON: We're waiting for Donald Trump right now to speak in Las Vegas. We're keeping an eye on that. And when we come right back, top conservatives who are taking on Donald Trump. Plus, which former candidate says the choice between Trump and Cruz is like choosing between being shot and being poisoned.
[22:10:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We're back and waiting for Donald Trump to speak in Las Vegas tonight. There you see the room. He's at the Venetian. That is as Trump is surging past Ted Cruz and other GOP candidates in CNN's Iowa poll.
So, let's discuss now with GOP strategist, Kayleigh McEnany. Lauren Claffey, and CNN contributor, Bakari Sellers. Are you, guys, ready to rumble?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes, sir.
LEMON: He sounds like, you know, he says Vegas maybe a price is right. OK. Kayleigh, I want to start with you. You know, we are looking at these new polls. The turnout really might be the key to who wins in Iowa. So, who is going to be able to turn it out?
MCENANY: Look, Donald Trump I think has put together a movement like nothing we've seen before. If we have learned anything about this election cycle it's that there is momentum and there is anger among voters. And that has the ability to mobilize them.
And contrary to conventional wisdom all of this folks who are saying that Trump doesn't have a ground game that's just not the case. He hired the guy named Chuck Laudner who is the one, who knows Iowa and took Rick Santorum to victory in 2012.
So, I think there is certainly is a ground game there. And I think that people underestimate just the frustration that voters have and that can certainly mobilize someone to go stand in the cold for two or three hours if it can change the course of their life going forward.
LEMON: You are agreeing, Bakari?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I am agreeing. In fact, this is a comparison I will probably never make again. What you are seeing from Donald Trump especially when you're building up towards Iowa is a lot -- a lot like the same feeling that you felt about Barack Obama. The difference, though...
LEMON: Wait, say that again. I've been saying that for months and now you're saying it. But you went like this. Now go ahead. Sorry.
SELLERS: Well, I mean, if you just look at the pure science of it, if you look at the fact that there is an energy, that there is a mobilization. But the difference that we've yet to see is whether or not he can actually implement and get those people from their sofas and from Twittering...
LEMON: If it turns it to votes, yes.
SELLERS: ... and Facebooking to turning the votes. But even more importantly, one thing that we are seeing similar to what happened with Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama in 2008, is that they are completing -- completely discounting him right now.
Hillary Clinton underestimated the turnout model in 2008 and was surprised by Barack Obama. It looks like Ted Cruz and the GOP may be underestimating Donald Trump in this manner, and maybe we'll see what happens with the turnout model here.
LEMON: That's from a republican strategist, Bakari Sellers there.
[22:15:02] SELLERS: If they listen to me, they may win more goodness, gracious.
LEMON: Hey, Lauren, I want to ask you about this. Because this is a -- I think the actual publication is going to come out tomorrow, The National Review fed up with the establishment republican leaders who have failed to take on Trump and are mounting an effort in this issue to go on the assault against Trump.
Rich Lowry, Billy Crystal, Michael Mukasey, Dana Loesch, EricK Eriksson, and many others. If they were so against him why did they wait until days before the Iowa caucus -- caususes to do something this public about it?
LAUREN CLAFFEY, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, right now is when it matters. For the most part during the holiday season's people aren't paying attention, right? And so, we're a week or two away from the caucuses and people are really starting to tune in.
I think it was CNN's poll who had some 30 percent of caucus goers as undecided and even if they are undecided then there, even the people who have declared are not fully locked in. They have all the way until February 1st to register and...
LEMON: But is it an exercise in futility this late in the game especially considering the momentum that Donald Trump has or do you think it will make a difference?
CLAFFEY: I don't know if it will make a difference. I think we have to see it. I think that right now, the conundrum with Donald Trump is that you have some conservatives for him, you have some establishments for him. You have some, you know, anti-conservatives against him.
It's just -- he is something that nobody who knows how to deal with right now and that's the problem. Nobody knows what to do with him. They didn't expect him to get this far. They have not seen anybody campaign the way that he has campaigned before.
CLAFFEY: Him and Bernie Sanders, I put them in the same camp, they are capitalizing on not only anti-Washington moment and hatred and frustration, but they're bringing in new people to the polls and new people to the caucuses that weren't normally involved. And so, we don't have models for that. They don't know how if people are going to show up or not.
LEMON: But, Kayleigh, quickly because I want to move on and talk about Bernie Sanders. But I'm just wondering if this may backfire. Because you know, Ted Cruz has been saying, you know, Donald Trump is an insider now. He's part of the establishment. He's going to make deals.
Doesn't this make Donald Trump look like an outsider if you have this establishment republicans saying we're going to stop his momentum. MCENANY: It does. It's great for Donald Trump because the National
Review is an establishment publication. They supported Mitt Romney, they came out against Newt Gingrich who is a conservative candidate. The National Review is so far out of the main stream of the conservative movement, undoubtedly you are correct that this helps Donald Trump.
LEMON: OK. Let's move on now. Bakari, this is for you. Let's watch this new ad. It's from Bernie Sanders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: It's very -- I feel like I was watching a Coca-Cola ad from the 1970s. But I was -- I do have a small monitor in here, I am screening. I think I saw one or two not a lot of minorities in there. That's the criticism at least to this ad and people are noticing.
SELLERS: Well, I mean, it's a good ad for Iowa. I think it's an inspirational ad. You know, I think it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside and buddy is Bernie Sanders. I mean, I think the creation of the ad going in is very good.
But this is the fact of the matter, and this is why people still have a lot of faith in Hillary Clinton moving forward. This is also why I mean, -- I still believe she will win Iowa due to turnout models and other things.
But the fact to the matter is, Iowa is about 2.5 percent African- American, and New Hampshire is about 1.2 percent African-American. And once you get passed in New Hampshire and Iowa you start to have demographics that are more reflective of the Democratic Party.
You look at South Carolina, you look at Georgia, Alabama, Arkansas, you're talking about a turnout of about 40 percent, 50 percent of African-Americans in these primaries. And I just don't look like that ad.
I think it's a refreshing ad. It made me smile when I woke up this morning. But he has to move beyond that. And I'm sure he will. I'm sure he's going to adapt and move beyond it. I'm not sure it's going to penetrate in South Carolina, Georgia, and throughout the SEC primaries.
LEMON: Well, that's because South Carolina and Georgia I think the bulwark there is her support, Hillary Clinton's support among African- Americans. Correct?
SELLERS: Well, even more particular. And I'm going to say this until I'm blown the faith. It's a very specific group. It's African-American women. African-American women are going to drive this train not just in the democratic primary. But if African-American women turn out in very high numbers then in all likelihood a democrat will be the 45th President of the United States.
LEMON: Lauren, I want to ask you, you know, Hillary Clinton came in third in Iowa in 2008. So, what can the Clinton campaign do to stop this momentum that Sanders has.
CLAFFEY: You know, I just want to point out that this ad, the reason why this ad works is it's uplifting. You have this, you know, chromogenic Washington type Sanders, right?
[22:20:04] And he's rebranding himself or this entire campaign has been about him connecting with the American people and rebranding himself as this, you know, representative for all the Americans and it's very uplifting. It's you smile.
You can't help but smile at it. It's American, right? And Hillary Clinton is not doing that. She doesn't have a big, broad message where she is connecting with everyone and having the, you know, if you go back to Obama and what happened in 2008, the hope and the change.
And, you know, the democrats are very idealistic voters, and they are very idealistic voters and they've been frustrated. They have had White House, right? And they have had eight years to get things done and there hasn't been.
And part of that with - if you're talking about realistically it's because the republicans have stopped a lot of what O6bama has wanted to do. But that being said, people are not seeing the big change that they wanted from eight years of Obama and they are viewing Hillary Clinton as just an extension of that.
So, she's got to move beyond that. She's got to make a tonal shift in her campaign and inspire people to get behind her that she can do big change.
SELLERS: I mean, that's not...
LEMON: All right. Stand by, everyone. Stand by. I have to get to a break. We're going to -- you, guys are going to come back after this break.
In the meantime, I want to tell everyone -- I'm sorry, you don't come back. I thought you're here for two segments. All right. Well, next time. See you. We are waiting for Donald -- bye, guys. We are waiting for Donald Trump who will be speaking in Las Vegas tonight.
And up next, the man who says the powers that be in the Democratic Party had to start taking Bernie Sanders seriously. Frank Rich of New York magazine is right here.
[22:25:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Bernie Sanders surging past Hillary Clinton in CNN's new Iowa poll as Clinton steps up her attacks on him. And my next guest says that it's time for the Democratic Party leaders to start taking Sanders seriously.
I'm joined by Mr. Frank Rich, writer at large for New York magazine in warm Los Angeles. You know, I'm mad at you for that but I'll have a civil conversation with you considering what's about to happen.
FRANK RICH, NEW YORK MAGAZINE WRITER-AT-LARGE: We'll try.
RICH: I've been hearing, yes.
LEMON: Good to have you here. So, listen, your latest conversation with New York Magazine is a very interesting one, Frank. You talk about how you misjudged the Bernie Sanders campaign and you also placed blame on the Clinton camp.
And here's what you say, you said, "If Clinton continues to lose altitude whose self-inflicted wounds through Sanders's ability to sell himself is a wider -- to a wider electorate -- excuse me, or through further revelations about her and Bill Clinton's dubious buck raking from Wall Street, corporate America and foreign governments the democrats are left with only one, and that plan b is Bernie Sanders."
Wow. So, why do you think that Bernie Sanders is a self-proclaimed socialist to pull off the nomination or the presidency?
RICH: I'm not sure he can. And I think the fact that he is 74 and a self-proclaimed socialist doesn't help him. And I also agree with a lot of the arguments with your earlier guests, the demographics of the wider Democratic Party when you get past Iowa and New Hampshire work against him.
But that said, he has enthusiastic crowds among the base of the Democratic Party and he is raising a lot of money from small donors which attest to his prowess, particularly among young people I think. And he is running against in Hillary Clinton someone who is a very flawed candidate and seems to be making a lot of the same mistakes that she made in 2008 when she was a -- can't-lose proposition and did lose to Barack Obama.
LEMON: Yes. I vaguely remember having this conversation with you about -- I think about Hillary and Bernie. But I know we had it about Trump as well. But let's -- I want you to listen to Hillary Clinton, this is in Iowa and she is campaigning -- she is now calling out Bernie Sanders by name. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I'll tell you I'm not interested in ideas that sound good on paper but will never make it in the real world. Senator Sanders doesn't talk much about foreign policy. But when he does it raises concerns because sometimes it can sound like he hasn't really thought it through.
For example, he suggested we invite Iranian troops into Syria. That is like asking the arsonist to be the firefighter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, I want you opinion on this. Because CNN is hosting this Town Hall on Monday.
RICH: Well, that's just...
LEMON: But let me get the question.
RICH: That's an example.
LEMON: She is -- we are hosting the Town Hall on Monday with the democratic candidates. Of course, with Hillary Clinton is one of them. Do you think that this new strategy, her, you know, is it working for her? Does she need to switch gears? Go ahead, Frank.
RICH: This is an example of what's wrong with her campaign. The biggest single factor at least in her defeat to Obama or at least the thing that opened the door to her defeat was her vote in favor of the Iraq war. I don't think it's wise of her to reopen that by challenging Bernie Sanders on foreign policy.
He's already compared her experience and use of lack of wisdom to Dick Cheney's in the past week. I don't get it. I don't even understand what this strategy is. Also, that commercial you showed earlier of Sanders is very stark contrast to what you just showed of Hillary Clinton.
He's upbeat, he wants to do things. She's saying he's a dreamer. But she is saying sort of eat your spinach and I can get things done and I know what I'm talking about. I don't that's very exciting or uplifting as the basis for a national presidential campaign at all.
LEMON: Is she kind of a Debby downer and he's like, you know, all happy, and joy, happy, happy, joy, joy and she is a Debby downer?
RICH: Well, it is a bit down. I mean, there is an angry populous out there. But what's interesting about Sanders is he has reached a very angry, in some cases group of voters, in some ways comparable to those who support Trump but with different politics. He has done it not by saying, hey, yes, I can or believing in hope and change.
Hillary Clinton is sort of saying, you know, I'm the dutiful person who will, you know, roll up my sleeves and apply all my experience. But you have to wonder, even her experience as a campaigner isn't -- and her last campaign is not showing up here if she is going to bring up foreign policy when he can just the Iraq war around her neck which she'll do.
[22:30:08] LEMON: Let's talk about the republicans now because last night, Donald Trump told me this. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In Europe and in the U.K., is they say they -- they actually say two, they say two Corinthians and a number of people have pointed this out. And it was not a big deal. I'm surprised you're even asking the question. It's a very small deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: And tonight, here is what Tony Perkins told my colleague Erin Burnett.
ERIN BURNETT, OUTFRONT SHOW HOST: So, is Donald Trump right, is this not just a big deal, Tony?
TONY PERKINS, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL PRESIDENT: Well, I mean, look, it shows that he is not familiar with the bible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Does it matter, Frank, to Evangelicals that Trump may not be familiar with the bible?
RICH: Clearly it doesn't. Because he isn't familiar with the bible. And was the "Art of the Deal" constitutes the scriptures, that's the only bible he's familiar with. And you know, when he talks about religion he always makes errors or he's very unspecific in general. But the thing the poll shows that Evangelicals don't care and more of them are for him than even Ted Cruz who has a strong Evangelical background and has an Evangelical preacher father.
So, call it hypocrisy call it whatever you want, there is something about Trump's message that is Trumped by the Trump's consideration of religiosity.
RICH: Jerry Falwell Jr. had him come and speak on Martin Luther King Day at Liberty University.
LEMON: Yes. It seems not to matter because, you know, they said that he -- that he wrote it down, that Perkins wrote it down. But as you say his support among Evangelicals has not waned. So, I don't think it really matters to his supporters at this point.
RICH: I agree.
LEMON: Thank you, Frank. I appreciate it. Stay warm out there in cold and freezing L.A.
RICH: Yes. Take care of yourself. Nice talking to you.
LEMON: All right. I'll see you soon, Frank Rich.>
When we come right back, voters are mad as hell and they're not going to take it anymore. But, what will that mean for the republican establishment? [22:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: The republicans and the democrats rolling out their big guns on the road to Iowa. But what if there's one thing we have learned about this presidential race if we have learned anything. It's that voters are sick and tired as politics as usual and the candidates are hearing them loud and clear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If being part of the establishment means you have to be in Washington, then I'm not. Because I've never lived there. I've never worked there.
TED CRUZ, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you see a candidate who Washington embraces, run and hide.
MARCO RUBIO, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: People are angry at Washington, D.C. and at both political parties. And the reason is because Washington has never been more out of touch than it is right now.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Most of them are just interested in where's my check, how much do I get? Let's make the process complicated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Joining me now to try to answer the question, if Washington is so awful, why are there so many candidates fighting like hell to get there or stay there?
Former Senator Trent Lott and Tom Daschle. They are the co-authors of "Crisis Point: Why We Must and How We Can Overcome Our Broken Politics in Washington and Across America." Hello, gentlemen. Good to have you. Are you doing OK?
TRENT LOTT, FORMER U.S. SENATOR: We're doing great. Thanks for having us, Don.
TOM DASCHLE, "CRISIS POINT" CO-AUTHOR: I appreciate it, Don. Glad to be with you.
LEMON: Listen, we're going to talk about this book in just a bit. But it's because 11 days from Iowa, the Iowa caucuses. And I have to ask you both about wild presidential race.
Senator Lott, Donald Trump is fond of saying that he is leading the race by a lot in the polls, really do bare him out. What do you make of this candidacy?
LOTT: Well, I'm surprised, quite frankly. It's been a very strange political year. We've got a lot of really outstanding candidates running across the board in the republican primary. A lot of us still hanging in there and some have already dropped out.
But for an outsider like Donald Trump to be running as strongly as he is, is unusual and quite frankly, in some respects concerning. But he has tapped into frustration and anger among the constituency and it's going well for him.
Now, I still believe that this race is a long way from being over and decided. Probably will go into March or April. But you know, when you look at Donald Trump and you look at Bernie Sanders you think what is going on with our parties?
LEMON: Yes. It's the outsiders. I have to ask you, though. Because you said there, you know, you have a lot of great candidates but you're not a fan of Ted Cruz. Why not?
LOTT: Well, I've been concerned about how he conducted himself in the Senate, both on a personal basis, you know, he called the majority leader a liar on the floor of the Senate. I don't know the details or what the disagreement was. But I thought that was not civilized or appropriate. I didn't like it.
While I might agree with him on a lot of things philosophically, his tactics sometimes are just not workable. You are going to shut down the government because the president wouldn't sign or override or, you know, repeal of Obamacare? He was not going to do it. The very idea that you are going to shut down the government or make him do what you want him to do was just not wise, to say the least.
LEMON: Senator Daschle, your turn. Because the democratic side, Senator Lott, Bernie Sanders, but on the democratic side, Bernie Sanders a self-described democratic socialist joined huge crowd of this effective or voters who feel that they are disenfranchise.
Is Secretary Clinton in trouble this time? Could it be 2008 all over again for her?
DASCHLE: I don't think so. I support her and I think that she is going to do well. But I think it's more competitive than we expected that it would be in part because of what you said.
I think Bernie, too, has tapped into this extraordinary anxiety, this fear, this problem of inequality that a lot of democrats are feeling. They're feeling that the rich and the powerful, the top 1 percent are far too privileged in society today. And they want more balance and Bernie is speaking to those fears and those anxieties.
LEMON: All right. Let's talk about this big endorsement that Donald Trump got. Sarah Palin and I'm looking at you, Senator Lott. Sarah Palin, let's listen to a clip and then we'll talk about it.
LOTT: Do I have to?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[22:39:59] SARAH PALIN, FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: Even today, the GOP machine, they're attacking their own front runner and his base of dynamic, diverse, very patriotic supporters. They're attacking you because they can't afford for the status quo to go otherwise the gravy train, it stopped and they can't keep slurping from it not if things change the way that Mr. Trump and all of we know needs to change.
LEMON: Before I threw that sound bite I thought I heard you under your -- maybe it wasn't under your breath, you were saying do I have to? Why do you -- why did you say that?
LOTT: Well, I didn't want to hear it. I'd heard it earlier. And you know, you don't want to be too critical of a voice but it's hard to listen to the sound of her voice. It got to be kind of a screech there.
You know, and frankly, I didn't agree with what she was having to say either. Now, her endorsement may actually help in Iowa. She has a lot of people who do and know her and support her in Iowa. And I guess maybe that was the purpose. But a lot of Americans and a lot of republicans I don't think that helped Donald Trump a whole lot.
LEMON: So, Senator Daschle, to you now, let's talk about this Trump, Cruz, and Sanders, they've all launched scathing attacks against lobbyists and the influence of money and politics. They're talking about you, both of you both because you both earned very good living lobbying. Is there too much money in the system, too much influence on Congress?
DASCHLE: There is too much money in politics. About that, there is absolutely no question. We've got to find ways to bring the amount of money down. People spend way too much time raising money dialing for dollars.
And I think that's really one of the corrosive factors today and it's really one of the reasons why the American people are frustrated. But I also think that there ought to be opportunities for people to advocate for the issues and the concerns that they have in our country today.
I'm proud of what we do. Its public issues and public policy has been a part of my life for almost 50 years now. And I believe strongly in what that entails. But, yes, we've got to deal with money.
LEMON: So, either one of you, your book is about working together across party lines. But right now in Congress bipartisanship is for traitors, you know, compromise is a dirty word. So, how do you turn that attitude around?
DASCHLE: Well, I think there is a lot of things that have to be done. First of all, I don't think compromise is a dirty word. If compromise is a dirty word, having your way exclusively is dictatorship, that's even dirtier word in American parlance today.
We don't want dictators in this country. We don't want people to say it's either going to be my way or the high way. Compromise is not capitulation. It's the way you move this country forward when you got 320 million Americans with very different views.
That's what we're seeing, there has to be more civility, more communication, more relationship building, more time in Washington, not less.
LOTT: One of the reasons why Tom and I got along well and got things done is because we had a good relationship. I respected his positions even when I disagreed and I trusted him not to do something underhanded or mean spirited. He just didn't do that.
Those are two things that we need so much back in Congress now, communication and chemistry and a relationship. And by the way, leadership.
LOTT: I found over the years that if you get out there and take a strong position and lead, people will follow. But if you hang back and wait for somebody to show you the easy route, nobody gets anything done.
LEMON: Look at that. You have two senators there, one republican and one democrat coming together to co-author a book, the book is called "Crisis Point. Why We Must and How We Can Overcome Our Broken Politics in Washington and Across America." And I thank you, gentlemen, for joining us here. I appreciate it.
DASCHLE: Thanks for having us.
LOTT: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: We'll be right back.
[22:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Every one of us has a hero, a parent, a mentor, a friend. And this week at CNN we're telling our stories of our heroes, the people who changed our lives. Here's Brooke Baldwin with her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN NEWSROOM SHOW HOST: It was the fall of 1991. With one of the best guitar riffs of all time, Nirvana became the kings of grunge. The governor of Arkansas made his move.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I proudly announce my candidacy.
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BALDWIN: And I was in middle school. You're such a southern gentleman.
BOBBY RASHAD JONES, BROOKE BALDWIN'S FRIEND: That's how we do it.
BALDWIN: It was also the year I met one of the most inspiring people I know, Bobby Rashad Jones. Do you remember your locker combination?
JONES: I do not.
BALDWIN: Same noise.
We were in the seventh grade here at the Westminster Schools in our hometown of Atlanta, Georgia.
Whoever wants to go back to seventh grade in your lifetime, not me. But I remember Rashad. And we pretty quickly clicked.
JONES: Brooke was very outgoing and she was very welcoming and very compassionate toward the new students than she always was, and so we kind of hit it off there in seventh grade.
BALDWIN: Rashad and I had a lot of things in common. He was a starting linebacker. I was the captain of the cheerleaders and our parents had the same rule. Education first.
JONES: Education is the one thing that you can gain in life that no one can take from you.
BALDWIN: Rashad's high school football coach remembers Mrs. Jones, who yanked her son out of practice one day because Rashad hasn't done his homework.
GERRY ROMBERG, FOOTBALL COACH: Bobby Jones, and I'm not saying as loud as it was being said there. Get up here right now, you get off that football field right now!
BALDWIN: We're in a golf cart because this campus has grown so much since even we were here. What were the jams you were listening to you senior years?
JONES: Quad City DJ's.
BALDWIN: Quad City DJ's.
JONES: Face all stars.
[22:49:57] BALDWIN: We bonded over music. I introduced Rashad to Pearl Jam's heavy Seattle sound. And he opened my eyes to the dirty South Beats of Atlanta rap.
And he taught me about outcast. It was music this education for me with Rashad. But that was just the beginning of this long, long friendship that, you know, has gone so beyond that. So, far beyond that. Two decades ago, Rashad and I sat on these same steps, our talks about boys and basketball soon with developed into discussions about much about deeper issues like race.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will you please stand up and face the jury.
JONES: I never forget the O.J. Simpson trial.
BALDWIN: I remember that. I remember you. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Orenthal James Simpson not guilty of the crime
BALDWIN: We sat around in classes and watched on TV.
JONES: It's the first time I head real conversations about race at this school. When I was here at Westminster when I first came in seventh grade it was a culture shock that first semester.
BALDWIN: There were four black kids in the class.
JONES: It was like four or five black boys in the class and I want to say like three other girls. It was very small.
BALDWIN: Rashad and I came from different worlds.
I think that was one of the reasons why early on just how you have certain people when you're younger who expose you to a totally different perspective and a way of life, it really resonated with me in high school in particular.
BALDWIN: He's taught me to always be open to other points of view to tell the stories of people who may not always be heard.
I'm actually in the middle of police. And to be fair.
JONES: When you interviewed people during the Ferguson and Baltimore riots you did your best to empathize and that's why the conversations were very real.
BALDWIN: But I think the only reason that I've been able to fully do that, one of the reasons is because of what you've taught me.
Rashad was recruited by more than a dozen college football teams but he turned them down to attend the U.S. naval academy.
I will tell you that I've never been so proud to be a part of something so much bigger than myself.
BALDWIN: On graduation day, exuberance.
JONES: I kind of lost my mind.
BALDWIN: Even bear hugging his commander-in-chief. Rashad rose to the ranks to become a lieutenant commander in the U.S. Navy. This was the first terrorist attack on the United States from ISIS. Now our worlds are converging again. I'm reporting on a world at war. He is fighting in one.
JONES: Every day that I put this uniform on, I just don't think about the navy, the naval service I think about the classmates I went to school with, some of which who have made the ultimate sacrifice in defense of their country and it's very humbling to even be considered a part of that group, very humbling. The captain will be off the ship this morning.
BALDWIN: Right now Rashad is stationed in the Middle East as the executive officer on the USS Antioch, actively engaged in the war on terror.
I am incredibly proud and not at all surprised. All right. So, cheerleading, football. Here's the football.
I've often wondered what makes a real friend. Someone who keeps you honest, somebody who keeps you in check. I found that and so much more in Rashad. I would say there is nothing off limits in my life that Rashad doesn't have some kind of opinion on.
Love life, professional, whatever. I listen to him. And now, his oldest daughter has started junior high at the very same school where her dad and I first met. I can only hope for her she finds someone in these hallowed halls who will teach her about life and love and fairness.
He, without even probably realizing what he was doing was teaching me. Rashad helped teach me and still does, how to be a better human being. How lucky am I?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Brooke is here with me. You love him?
BALDWIN: I love him. I love him. I just talked to him last night. He's in the Middle East.
LEMON: Why has your bond lasted for so long?
BALDWIN: I mean, it sounded so silly. Well, we initially bonded over music. Music is one of my languages, you know, and his, too. And from there it's silly that things that matters so much when you are an awkward seventh grader.
[22:54:58] But through the years the people who you think you're going to be really close friends with you, you're sitting next to on graduation day when you're 18, see you.
BALDWIN: You know, it's the people who have evolved with you and the way he talks to me. I mean, again, this is a guy, this is a guy, who, by the way, when you heard about the 10 U.S. sailors who were detained by Iran last week and I was supposed to have a date with my friend Rashad and I'm calling his phone and I hear nothing, this is the guy who is in the peak of it who is literally pulling these 10 sailors back on to the USS Antioch and that's why he couldn't take my call.
LEMON: What do you want -- you always think of -- what do you want to say to him that you haven't said to him?
BALDWIN: I love you. He always deflects. He's like, well, you know, what's been fascinating about this series and learning about all of our, you know, our colleagues has been the people I think have reached out to him, the younger sailors who he went to navy with and who he's been to war with, the way they have reached out to him, I think he's been humble in a way that's been just mind blowing for him.
And that if I could give him this one gift of showing my love for everyone to watch, thank you.
LEMON: Yes. Very special. I love watching that.
BALDWIN: Thank you. Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you, Brooke.
BALDWIN: Thank you.
LEMON: There's more to come from our week-long series, a person who changed my life. Chris Cuomo tells his story tomorrow morning at 8 a.m. on New Day. Erin Burnett shares hers' on Out Front, that's tomorrow night. It all wraps up for two-hour special at Sunday night at 8 p.m. Eastern. And there is more on our web site as well, cnn.com/lifechangers.
Again, thanks to Brooke Baldwin.
BALDWIN: Thank you.
LEMON: We'll be right back.
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