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Super Tuesday Round Two: Michigan and Mississippi Up for Grabs; Cruz Nipping at Trump's Heels; Polls Show Trump Leading Rubio in Florida; Social Media Changing the Campaign. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired March 7, 2016 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN HOST: You know, it is hard to imagine a more pivotal week in the presidential race than this one right now. Super Tuesday tomorrow, democratic debate Wednesday, GOP debate Thursday.
This is CNN TONIGHT, I'm Don Lemon.
Super Tuesday, round two, big states up for grabs, Michigan and Mississippi. Ted Cruz nipping at Donald Trump's heels, but tonight, Trump fighting to hold him off, rallying his supporters in Mississippi.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Raise your right hand, everybody. Do you swear that you're going to vote for Donald Trump tomorrow? Raise that hand. I love you! I love you!
Trump and Cruz both trying to squeeze Marco Rubio. Late polls show Trump leading Rubio in Florida, but is that gap closing one week before the Florida primary?
The man who can tell us all about that is CNN's chief national correspondent, that's Mr. John King. Good evening, sir. How are you?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: How are you? I'm good, how are you?
LEMON: I'm great as well. So, Super Tuesday, number two, round two, tomorrow. Is Donald Trump poised to slam the door on this nominating contest or have the attacks begun to works?
KING: We're going to get good answer tomorrow. There's some crumbs that the attacks are working. Ted Cruz won two of the four states on Super Saturday. The margins in Kentucky and Louisiana were pretty small for Donald Trump and some conservatives think there's a sign of weakening. Let's see what happens, Don. The big prize is tomorrow, Mississippi
and Michigan. If Donald Trump can shut Ted Cruz out again in the south, if he can win Mississippi, that's supposed to be Ted Cruz's Evangelical base.
If Donald Trump can win there, and then if he can win in Michigan, in the industrial heartland, a state Donald Trump says he would contest against the democrats in November, then Trump will say, hey, I took a punch but I came back in the next round and I won the round. So, tomorrow's voting matters a lot.
LEMON: OK. Let's show the numbers here. As you say, Michigan, big prize with the latest poll of Monmouth University that it shows there. Well, Donald Trump is in the lead by 13 percent here, John. But in the last two days, John Kasich appears to be on the rise. Do you think either John Kasich or Ted Cruz have a shot at winning?
KING: Well, that gap would tell you no, but the pollsters did say in the last couple days of the poll, the race was much tighter. Trump was still in the lead, but the race was tighter.
So, again, is that one of the crumbs that suggests there's a moment of pause in the Republican Party? That either voters are thinking, are we sure we want this guy to be our nominee, or that all the attacks on Donald Trump are beginning to have some effect?
Michigan's a diverse state, it's an interesting state. You have a little bit of an Evangelical base. You have more suburban republicans, as well. Remember, Rick Santorum almost caught Mitt Romney there in 2012.
The Romney name people thought was the gold standard in Michigan. Santorum almost caught up with a mix of Evangelical and also blue- collar economic appeal. Trump has that blue collar economic appeal. Let's count the votes tomorrow. Again, if Trump can hold Michigan tomorrow, especially if he also holds Mississippi, he will stabilize heading into March 15th, which is another huge test. But tomorrow's a very interesting test.
LEMON: All right. Let's talk about delegates, John. I mean, if you look at it, Donald Trump and Ted Cruz aren't far apart. So, what's at stake tomorrow in terms of delegates? Does the math really work for all the candidates? Does it still work here?
KING: Well, it works easier for Trump and easier for the rest of Ted Cruz. That's the main delegate total. That fact that Ted Cruz is now within 87 delegates is a pretty big deal. Marco Rubio, a distant third. Marco Rubio, one-word answer, he says can he survive and that is Florida. And that's a week from Tuesday.
Don, Marco Rubio has to win his home state. But if you look at that lead right now, so project this forward. Again, tomorrow will tell us a lot about whether Trump is actually weakening or if he just took one punch and he can come back and do it.
But look at the percentages here. Donald Trump has won 44 percent of the delegates in the republican contest to date. He has to win 53 percent for the remaining contests to clinch. Ted Cruz you see what the percentage he's won, 34. He needs to win almost 60 percent.
And then for Rubio and Kasich, the hill is much steeper. It's almost impossible to see Rubio or Kasich actually clinching. You can only see them being in play if there is that, you know, fabled open convention. But for Donald Trump, even if you see that 53 percent, you say, that's a steep number, can you reach it.
Remember, we go through this week, Don, and then we get to next week and it's winner take all. You win Florida, you get 199. You know, you win Ohio, you get a bunch. So, once we get into winner take all, that math, the 53 and even the 59 percent for Cruz is not so daunting. It is possible. It is possible.
That is why the next 10 days, the next 8 days, really, are so critical in this race. Number one, can Donald Trump get back on track tomorrow or is he weakened further in the tomorrow contest, and then you get to the big winner-take-all March 15th where you're looking at Illinois, you're looking at Ohio, you're looking Florida, the biggest prize there.
And so, tomorrow is a huge test, then going into what could be the deciding week. I think this is a defining week. Next week, potentially, could be the deciding week.
LEMON: If Rubio and Kasich, if they don't win their home states, the question is, can day go on? But what I'm wondering, though, is what if Trump loses both or even if it's very tight. Is that a game changer?
KING: Yes. Well, he would still in the -- he's still likely to be in the lead. He's certainly to be in the delegate lead, even if he loses both of those. But that's when you get in, Don, to this conversation about, stay in the race, everybody stays in the race.
[22:05:01] But if Rubio wins Florida, he'll stay in. If Kasich wins Ohio, he'll stay in. And then you get into the thing the idea of can Donald Trump get to 1237? The answer is he can. But the math becomes very, very difficult. If he loses both Florida and Ohio, we're likely to have a war of attrition through the end of March, into April, into May, perhaps through California in June, and we could go to a convention.
Now, remember, this story changes every day or every week, this story changes. What I like to say is, we're in the middle of a great drama. This chapter is pretty exciting. Let's not try to write the last chapter yet.
But I do think -- look, tomorrow is key to test Trump's momentum and his ability to rebound from taking a punch. If he can rebound from that, then next week is hugely important in the sense that Rubio and Kasich, life or death in their home states. They have to win their home states or else they're done. If they win their home states, they're in and we've got a really interesting ride.
LEMON: I'm going to call you the John-ac, like the great Carnac. All that magic word stuff is in your head. You don't need those thinking magic well. It's all in your head. Thank you very much.
KING: Most of it.
LEMON: Most of it. Thank you, sir. See you soon.
KING: All right.
LEMON: I appreciate you coming on. Now I want to bring in Hugh Hewitt, the host of radio's Hugh Hewitt show. Hugh, good to have you on as well. So, what's your prediction for tomorrow? Who comes out the big winner?
HUGH HEWITT, RADIO HUGH HEWITT SHOW HOST: Well, I have no predictions on Michigan, because the polling is problematic at best and it's an open primary and they have a great race on the democratic side, as well as on the republican side.
But I'll say this, Donald Trump has been losing altitude for 10 days. I don't think he's crashed, I don't think he's in a nosedive, but he's been losing altitude. So, Michigan, he needs a good double-digit win in Michigan to regain that momentum.
And if it's single digits, I think you'll hear the chatter that John was just referencing about Marco Rubio coming back, the early numbers out of Florida from Monmouth poll, very good for Marco Rubio. He's winning the actual vote.
The election is underway in Florida. There's early voting. People are casting ballots every single day. And so, I think Rubio's got a little wind at his back. Cruz had a great weekend for Cruz, and Donald Trump hasn't crashed it's a...
LEMON: So, why is he losing altitude, what's going on?
HEWITT: ... I will predict that. Well, he had two bad debates in a row. He had the KKK imbroglio that he had to break free from, he had to clarify his remarks on torture and families of terrorism. He just had a bad 10 days.
Now every campaign has bad patches. And I think you could look back to Ted Cruz's bad patch right before Donald Trump started to slip on the ice. So, I think we're going to a contested convention, Don. I've been saying that since 2014 with different rules.
LEMON: You've been saying that. Yes, you have, you have.
HEWITT: And I think today, Chris Cillizza in The Washington Post, Jay Cost in the Weekly Standard, other analysts up and down the network dials have been looking they've been looking at the map, it's very hard to get to 1,237, especially -- this is really in the weeds -- 9 percent of the republican convention delegates are by state law uncommitted.
And you take that 9 percent, you allocate the other delegates, and I don't think see any way anyone arrives a to the shores of Lake Erie with a Peyton Manning-led Cleveland Browns doing anything other than arguing on the floor that they ought to be the nominee.
LEMON: You got...
HEWITT: Peyton Manning, by the way, that's the big story of the day.
LEMON: It is, but I mean, it was expected and he's going out on a high note. We're really going off the rails here. But he's going out on a high note. I think it's a perfect time for him to, you know, to retire.
But I have to ask you I think what...
HEWITT: And a bit of the Cleveland Browns.
HEWITT: And to go run the Cleveland Browns. That's what he's going to do.
LEMON: Yes. Listen, I've got to ask you, though, I think in the crosstalk, I cut you off. People couldn't hear you but you said you think John Kasich is going to win Ohio, because if he doesn't this is life-or-death for his campaign, right?
HEWITT: Well, I from Warren, Ohio, and I have known the governor for a long time and he has a great organization and he has a couple of conservative critics who make a lot of noise, but John Kasich is going to win Ohio. He's a very popular, very successful governor in the buckeye state.
And I think that's going to throw us into a contested convention, in which he's in a very, very good position. If he doesn't ramp up in Illinois and other places to nevertheless say, hey, I should be the vice president. I think Marco Rubio is going to make the same case if he wins Florida and that looks to me to be increasingly likely.
Nevertheless, Donald Trump is the leader. He is by far the most popular with democrats who cross over and vote in the Republican Party primary. And so, as John King just said, you can't beat John King, you're right, he carries it around in his head. I've sat in green rooms with him when he reels off precinct totals from 25 years ago.
LEMON: He talks about differently, you know, different district and counties that I'm like, how do you know this stuff?
HEWITT: Because he was an A.P. reporter back in the day. He was covering Dukakis in Western Pennsylvania during the 1998 campaign. So, John knows his stuff and I tend to trust his on this. LEMON: Let's talk about Florida. Trump is airing a new commercial in
Florida, let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rubio's been a total no-show in the U.S. Senate with the very worst voting record of all. Marco Rubio, another corrupt, all-talk, no-action politician.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, we haven't seen too many Trump ads. What does that tell you?
HEWITT: Well, it tells me he's playing to win and he's got a good argument that he's making repeatedly.
[22:10:01] But I have been in Miami for one day, Don, and I've probably seen 40 ads. Most of them are anti-Trump ads. Some of them using his own language run by super PACS. And I -- it's a 10 major media markets.
LEMON: We have one. Do you want to listen?
HEWITT: Yes, please.
LEMON: All right. Let's play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I heard Donald Trump insult my fellow prisoners of war from Vietnam by calling us losers, that was the most infuriating comment I think I've heard from a politician in my entire life. Trump would not have survived a POW experience. He would have been probably the first one to fold. Learn about Donald Trump. He is not what he appears to be. Donald Trump is a phony. Stop him now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: How effective is this? Continue your thought.
HEWITT: It's very effective in Florida. This is probably the state with the most active duty military registered to vote, because, it is, of course, military can register to vote anywhere they can declare their residence. There are a lot of them in Florida.
If you remember the recount in Bush/Gore in 2000, the absentees that came in from the military, that is a devastating ad. And I expect Donald Trump to be up responding with his long-standing support of veterans groups for a long time.
But nevertheless, an air war is how you win Florida, and Rubio's got the turf at this point. I'll watch every day and new ads will arrive between now and next Tuesday. And I have so say, Don, I think that Thursday night's debate and I'm pleased to be a part of that one, is going to be the most significant primary debate in the history of television.
Not like a presidential debate, but I've never seen a debate with higher stakes than Thursday night.
LEMON: Yes, OK. Well, we all will be watching. We'll be watching you. Thank you, Hugh Hewitt. I'll see you soon.
HEWITT: Always a pleasure, Don.
LEMON: Make sure -- make sure you -- yes. Mae sure you stay with CNN. March madness on the campaign trail. We're going to have all the day's coverage tomorrow. Super Tuesday, round two. Wednesday night, we're simulcasting Univision's democratic debate from Miami. It's at 9 Eastern. And on Thursday, CNN's republican debate from Miami, 8.30 p.m. Eastern Time.
And up next, the move to stop Donald Trump and draft House Speaker Paul Ryan as the republican nominee. I'm going to talk to the man who is leading the charge and get reaction from Trump's campaign.
Also ahead, which candidate is best at getting the last word in this race?
[22:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Time for plan "b." That's the battlecry of the committee to draft Speaker -- Speaker Paul Ryan, a super PAC spearheaded by Earle Mack, a New York businessman and former ambassador, who is hoping to draft the house speaker as the GOP's presidential nominee. Is the speaker even interested? Ambassador Mac joins me now. Good to have you here.
EARLE MACK, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR: Nice to see you.
LEMON: Thank you, sir. So, you started this super PAC to draft Paul Ryan. You promised to spend up to $1 million of your own money. Why now, ambassador?
MACK: Well, first, before we go any further, I would like to urge all of your listeners and viewers to go to draftspeakerryan.com.
LEMON: Do we have it up there, up on the screen. So why are you doing it?
MACK: I just believe in it. I believe he's the right person to unite our country, to unite our party, and he's the best leader that I know that can win the election.
LEMON: So, you don't think the people you have -- before I get into him, you know, maybe not wanting to do it, but you know you've got Donald Trump, you've got Ted Cruz, you've got Donald Trump and Cruz and Rubio and Kasich.
MACK: Except they've all been poisoned by the finger of pollution that these debates that have degenerated into schoolyard brawls, I just don't think at this point they're going to beat Hillary Clinton, or they're going to beat Bernie Sanders, or are they going to beat our vice president.
LEMON: You cite this news to Wall Street Journal/NBC/Marist poll, right, if we can put that up where it shows...
LEMON: ... up against right. Up against the democrats, Trump is at 36 percent, Hillary Clinton is at 52 percent, she beats him, and on and on, Clinton at 48 percent when it comes to Cruz. Cruz is at 41 percent, and then you see...
MACK: And so on and so forth.
LEMON: And so and so forth.
MACK: For all the candidates, and Sanders -- Sanders beats Trump, 56 to 34.
LEMON: What makes you think...
MACK: And Sanders beat Cruz.
LEMON: ... what makes you think that Paul Ryan will do any better? The last time around, he had his chance as vice president with Mitt Romney. What do you -- why do you think he would be do better?
MACK: This man has been vetted, he's a family man, he's a leader, and he got more done in two months, as speaker, than the last two congresses. So, he got the budget passed, which was the most difficult in our time. But he got it passed.
And he stood up -- he stood up for what he was right, what he thought was right and he brought democrats and republicans together and they got along well.
MACK: And I think that he's the only one that cannot only win the election, but he's like an Abraham Lincoln. I think that he can lead the party, lead the country, and I don't think anybody else can win, except Paul Ryan. And these are all fine men, but they've been touched by the finger of pollution in those -- in those silly debates.
LEMON: Thank you, sir. I appreciate it. Thank you for coming on.
MACK: Thank you for having me.
LEMON: I want to bring in now Stephen Miller, he's a senior adviser to the Trump campaign. Mr. Miller, you just heard my interview with the ambassador, Ambassador Mack. He wants to draft Paul Ryan into this race. Paul Ryan has said, you know, as of now he doesn't want to be in the race. What's your reaction?
STEPHEN MILLER, DONALD TRUMP SENIOR ADVISER: Well, first of all, Don, it's great to be here tonight. In response to that, I would say this. Speaker Ryan is famous in Congress for having pushed primarily two things in recent history. A large increase to immigration levels, which would pull down wages for the working class, and President Obama's trade PAC, which would destroy what's left of the car industry in Michigan.
So, it's strikes me as peculiar to say that on two issues where the GOP electorate wants to go in the direction of more American manufacturing jobs and less competition for wages with foreign workers, who would even be talking about putting forward someone for president who wants to go in the direction of corporate America and lower wages and fewer manufacturing jobs.
[22:20:12] So, I just don't think that really merits much conversation. This election fundamentally is about the effort to reclaim for working Americans their economic futures. Look at what has happened to the people of Detroit and the people of Michigan.
Once a shining example, an industrial powerhouse, where one worker could go to work every day and earn a wage that could support their family, they could retire at a reasonable time, they could have a pension, a healthcare, and a quality education for their whole family. That dream has been destroyed.
LEMON: But Mr. Miller.
MILLER: And that dream has been destroyed by trade policies that reward offshoring of jobs.
LEMON: If you let me get in here, if you listen to the ambassador, and if you listen to other people in the GOP, they don't believe that Donald Trump has the ability to do that. They say it's nice talk, it's nice rhetoric, but when it comes right down to it, he doesn't have the experience to be able to do anything like that. It's all just show. What do you say to that?
MILLER: These are concrete policy items. If you look at trade policy, for instance, why is it that the manufacturing jobs have disappeared in Michigan? It's not accidental, it's because of trade PACs that have incentivized offshore, making it easier to open a factory in Mexico or Vietnam or Japan or China and then ship products back to the United States.
This is done through reducing tariffs on foreign countries, it is done through enabling foreign currency manipulation, and through a variety of surrender us trade policies. The other candidates in this race, John Kasich, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz all favor Barack Obama's Transpacific partnership, which will send the U.S. jobs to lower wage countries. And what happens when you force American workers to compete with workers earning $1 or two a day it size down wages.
LEMON: There's also -- there's also evidence, Mr. Miller, that NAFTA and the TPP really doesn't have that much to do with jobs and with what's going on now with the economy and with unemployment. That there are other factors that go into that as well. And to draw that connection is simply being disingenuous.
MILLER: I am so glad that we are having this conversation on primetime TV tonight. It brings joy into my heart. We have lost one third of our manufacturing jobs since NAFTA. One third. Since China entered the world trade organization, we have lost 4 million manufacturing jobs in the United States.
The apparel industry has been decimated. The textile industry has been all but destroyed. The car industry has shriveled. All of these jobs, all of these factors have moved overseas.
And what happens is, when you lose manufacturing plants, when you lose workers in factories, it creates labor market crowding at the lower end of the wage scale, driving down wages not just in manufacturing, but driving down wages in varieties of professions, including restaurant work, including health care work, including all the industries in the community where you now have a larger pool of workers competing for jobs.
LEMON: Mr. Miller, with that said, if you listen to what Ambassador Mack is doing, and others, just been behind the scenes, that there are people within the GOP who are trying to, you know, make it with Donald Trump does not have enough delegates to win the nomination, is there some sort of contingency plan within the Trump campaign to stop this?
MILLER: Our contingency plan, sir, is to take our case to the beaten- down people of this country, the wage earners, who have seen their dream dashed at every turn. You have a political class in Washington...
LEMON: But a realistic strategy beyond rhetoric and beyond talking points? Because this is a strategy...
MILLER: That is not -- that is not -- that is not -- that is not rhetoric. This is reality.
LEMON: A realistic strategy which requires some political savvy to...
MILLER: This is -- this is not -- that is -- this is - it is not rhetoric. When you have a -- when you have a wage...
LEMON: I understand what you're saying.
MILLER: ... earner who has worked at a factory for 20 years...
LEMON: But Mr. Miller, if you'll -- Mr. Miller, if you'll just -- if you'll just hear me out...
MILLER: They like to care for your plant. And that factory is sent overseas...
LEMON: Mr. Miller, if you'll just hear me out. You've heard about the plan, within the GOP to stop Donald Trump from getting to the 1,237. The 1,237 delegates in order to win the nomination. That is not going to happen by you taking it to the people. Is there some plan that you have to combat that? A real political strategy, as we are in the middle of primaries right now.
MILLER: The best and most effective political strategy in this remarkable and historic political season is to rally the voters to victory, as we have done.
[22:25:01] Mr. Trump is leading in the delegates. He is far and away leading in state victories, two to one over his nearest rival. And look, you've seen the collapse. You want to talk about strategy, the establishment has had a strategy since 2010 to make Marco Rubio the GOP nominee.
I have worked in Washington for the last 10 years and I have seen it every step of the way. They groomed Florida senator Marco Rubio to be the donor class vessel, to be the front man for corporate interests in America.
LEMON: All right, Mr. Miller.
MILLER: That's why Marco Rubio pushes the amnesty.
LEMON: Quickly, I need you to come get your point across.
MILLER: So, when you see the failure of the political class to have their chosen nominee, Marco Rubio, it raises the question, why are we listening to these people?
MILLER: Why are we taking advice from people that have poured tens of millions of dollars into the failed candidacy of Marco Rubio?
LEMON: Stephen Miller...
MILLER: So, yes, I am proud to say tonight that we will stand with the working people of this country to victory in November.
LEMON: Thank you, sir. I have to get to a break. I appreciate you coming on. Thank you very much.
When we come right back, Super Tuesday round two tomorrow. The political experts weigh in on who's expected to do well.
LEMON: Voters in four states casting ballots tomorrow.
[22:30:00] Can Ted Cruz continue his momentum from Saturday? Is Trump unstoppable? How much worse can the GOP mud-slinging get.
Joining me now to talk about that is Bob Cusack, editor-in-chief of "The Hill.com," democratic strategist Hillary Rosen, and Matt Lewis, senior contributor for the Daily Caller and author of "Too Dumb To Fail." Good to have all of you on this evening. You doing okay?
MATT LEWIS, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR THE DAILY CALLER: Oh, yeah.
HILLARY ROSEN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Right.
LEMON: Okay, Matt, to you first. Maureen Dowd of New York Times" is out with a new piece. I don't know if you guys read it today. Beautifully written, but it's about Donald Trump and it says, "Trump wants to be seen as Ronald Reagan, but often he is more like Pat Buchanan playing to the crowd's prejudices just to hear the blood thirsty roar.
Trump, who was slow to disavow David Duke and the Klan, stokes the gladiatorial fever, leading to minorities being roughed up and the press being bullied. He has a nasty gift for dragging everyone down to his own vulgar level." So, Matt, is Maureen Dowd right? Is Trump more like Pat Buchanan than Ronald Reagan?
LEWIS: Absolutely and you're right, that's a really good column. I enjoyed reading that one and it was fun and look ...
LEMON: Not that you agree with it, but it was very well-written, wasn't it?
LEWIS: Yeah, absolutely, as a columnist -- I'm a columnist. I admire people who are good writers. Maureen Dowd is great. Look, Ronald Reagan, you can tell that he is this great figure on the right, because everybody considers himself a Reaganite. So, Bill Kristol and Pat Buchanan like, couldn't be further apart, and yet they would both say that Ronald Reagan, you know, was sort of one of their political hero or something.
And so, Reagan did have this ability to tap into the populist zeitgeist, the Reagan democrats of course. So, yeah, there's an argument that Donald Trump has some similarity, but I agree with MoDo. I think that Trump is much more in line with Pat Buchanan, much more of the nationalist populist and more stoking anger than inspiring people to rise to their better angels/.
LEMON: MoDo is Maureen Dowd, by the way, for all the cool people.
ROSEN: Everybody knows that.
LEMON: Yeah, for the cool people. Bob, Marco Rubio is calling Trump a con man, using vulgar references to attack Trump. It seems to be hurting Rubio. Is this another example of the anti-Trump movement not knowing what to do?
BOB CUSACK, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF THE HILL: Yeah, I mean I think only one person can be Donald Trump and that's Donald Trump and Rubio has tried that and gone after him with personal insults back and forth. I think that hurt the republican brand. Donald Trump we heard the other night saying he's going to be more presidential. I think he's going to have to make that pivot and significant.
I think he got hurt by the KKK controversy. He did hit a bit of an obstacle. Was it a speed bump over the weekend or was it a significant pothole that could help Ted Cruz get the nomination? You look at Florida and Ohio, I mean, if the home state guys win those two states, we're probably looking at some type of brokered convention.
But if Trump wins one of those states, and I think he's going to have a decent day tomorrow if you look at the polls, which are you know, not that -- not a lot of polling, but I think he's going to have a good day tomorrow. But really, the focus is going to be on Ohio and Florida. Can he steal one of those states?
LEMON: So, what's the strategy before I get to Hillary, then what's the strategy if you can't out-Trump Trump? Why don't the people in Rubio -- his insiders or whoever's advising him -- why don't they know that? Why are they trying to out-Trump Trump if the conventional wisdom is, don't do it?
CUSACK: Well Don, I think they had tried everything and Trump had taken a lot of punches. I mean, he's been on top for seven plus months. So, they figured, all right, let's stoop to that level and play in the mud because that's what GOP primary voters want. And to some degree, they do want it because they've rewarded the fighter in Trump, and the counterpuncher.
He's a very effective counterpuncher. But for Rubio it doesn't work and if you're being fake, if you're not being yourself, voters can see that and that's why it's not been proven to be an effective strategy for Rubio, and that's why he is on the ropes.
LEMON: Okay, Hillary, so Bob mentioned the KKK. I want you to take a look at this "SNL" skit. It's over the weekend. It's getting a whole lot of buzz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So when people ask why you support Donald Trump, you just tell them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's going to take our economy from here to here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's not some cautious politician. He says what I'm thinking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know what it is, I just like the guy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some of his ideas seem a little out there, but i like that he's looking towards solutions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's definitely not P.C.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So why do I support Trump? Three words -- good at business.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A message from Racists for Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON: Look, we get it. It's "SNL," it's a joke, it's supposed to be funny, but I mean honestly, Hillary, is this the image that the GOP wants out there?
[22:35:00] ROSEN: No, it's not the image they want out there, but it is the sort of the gradual intolerance factor. I think that's why you saw the other candidates go so far out of their way over the course of the last week to talk about how they abhor discrimination, I think farther than Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz has ever gone, talking about how racial disparities are a problem. So, you know, if Donald Trump did one thing, it's to get all GOP leaders to start talking about race in a way that they haven't probably in years.
You know, I think that what Rubio discovered though, was that the more aggressive he was about Donald Trump, the more sarcastic, the more -- you know, throwing mud right back at him -- the more attention he got, the more TV time he got, the more, you know, Twitter time he got. And I think he was a little starved for attention and I say that sort of not sarcastically, but really in truth.
People feel like the amount of media attention that Trump has gotten has helped his poll numbers. And so now, I think I was paying attention to what Hugh Hewitt said before when he talked about sort of is, you know, is the wind coming out of Donald Trump's sails? Is the, sort of the corrosive factor of Trump finally catching up to him? I have my doubts, but you know I think there are a lot of republicans hoping it's the case.
LEMON: All right, everyone stay with me. We're going to continue our discussion in just a moment.
LEMON: Super Tuesday, round two. Polls open in just a few hours, back with me now, Bob Cusack, Hilary Rosen, and Matt Lewis. Okay Matt, Marco Rubio only has two wins so far, Puerto Rico and Minnesota. So, if you look at Florida, it's on March 15th, here's what Monmouth polls shows. He's pulling second to Donald Trump by eight points. You say Florida is his waterloo moment so it's do or die for him there, right?
LEWIS: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And I think right now it's about stopping Donald Trump. And I think Marco Rubio plants (ph) himself in Florida and he runs like he's running for re-election in the Senate or running for Governor or whatever, and he's going to use the turnout (ph) operation, the infrastructure that he has and you know, if he has a good debate and if he continues -- we've seen the trend where Rubio kind of over-performs on election day -- late deciders break his way.
It's going to be tough, but you know maybe can pull off a miracle. And if that happens, you know, as we're saying earlier, it makes it much more likely that Donald Trump can't get the 1,237 delegates he needs.
LEMON: Bob, do you think he can pull off a miracle there? CUSACK: Oh yeah, and I think he can. I think he's got to let it fly. I
think he's been a little bit too careful throughout his campaign. He's also not as been -- and you know this Don -- he's not been as accessible to the media as Donald Trump and if you look at the successful candidates, usually they're pretty accessible to the media, and certainly Trump has been, to a certain degree.
But they really protected Rubio, so I think he's got to let it fly. You don't become president of the United States, you don't become the nominee unless you yourself and you're aggressive and you go for it. You can't be too careful and win.
LEWIS: And I will say this, I think part of why I think Rubio has a shot is that I think all the spin is gone. There are no expectations here. He's laying it all on the line. You know he has to win. He knows you know he has to win. There are no games and you know this is him. I think this is raw, pure, political -- it's why we do what we do why we cover this. It's going to be amazing to watch.
LEMON: But isn't it tough though, when your own hometown paper, the "Sun-Sentinel" isn't endorsing Marco Rubio. His hometown paper, "Sun- Sentinel" -- it is endorsing him but it's -- they're not endorsing any of the GOP candidates, right? Here's what they say. They say, "Trump may be entertaining, but he lacks the experience and the temperament to be president. Rubio lacks the experience, work ethic, and gravitas needed to be president.
Cruz scares us. He also should scare republicans who want to win in November." And then on John Kasich, here's what they say, "We can't urge you to vote for someone who doesn't have a chance of winning the nomination." So, they're not endorsing -- I mean, Hillary, have you ever seen anything like this on any side?
ROSEN: Well, "Sun-Sentinel" matters a lot there, you know, Florida's a lot of media markets and there are other papers that matter and you know, Marco Rubio is probably better known in southern Florida in some respects than he is in Orlando. Interestingly, Orlando is a large Puerto Rican population which is why we saw Marco Rubio so double down on that Puerto Rico win because he's hoping that the Latinos around the Orlando and the corridor will come to pay his supports.
So, you know, I think an unknown here though is whether Cruz actually takes some numbers away from Rubio in north Florida where you've got significant amount of conservatives,. You know the borders on -- and so I wonder whether that's going to end up hurting Rubio and helping Trump of some of those conservatives splitting the votes.
LEMON: But Matt, when your own hometown paper -- you said well, maybe he can pull off a win. Bob says you think -- both of you said maybe he can do it. When your own hometown paper is not endorsing and there are other Florida papers as Hillary said, who have endorsed him, but still, I mean -- and have you guys seen anything like this? We're not going to endorse anyone.
ROSEN: Well, it's the paper -- I should just say, I mean, when you are that state Senator to not be able to get the endorsements of the major papers is a problem. They are supposed to -- you're the one they're supposed to know the best and for your papers to say that they don't think you have the experience has got to be unnerving in this last week.
LEMON: Go ahead, Bob.
CUSACK: Listen, I think it's not a good sign for Rubio but also, he has shown he defied the odds when ran for the senate. He ran against a very popular sitting governor in Charlie Chris and became a three-way race when Chris became an independent, and he dominated. Rubio knows he can give an incredible speech. He knows how to campaign. I think he can do it. The fact he's got down to single digits, that's a good sign but he's got a long way to go.
LEMON: Hey Matt, I've got to go. If you can give me 10 seconds here because Ted Cruz and Donald Trump are calling for Marco Rubio to drop out. If he does, who does that help? Does it help Trump or Cruz?
[22:45:00] LEWIS: It helps Trump. You know, Ted Cruz should turn his get off the boat operation on in Florida to help Marco Rubio win Florida. He needs to stop Donald Trump.
LEMON: All right, thank you. Appreciate it. Up next, how to get the last word in any political debate and who's the best at it in this race.
LEMON: Arguing during political campaign is nothing new. But now, there's more than one way to get the last word. So here with me now is Gary Vaynerchuck, author of #AskGaryVee and Peter Hamby, head of news for Snapchat. I keep wanting to say, you know, Washington correspondent for CNN or whatever but you're big-time now.
PETER HAMBY, HEAD OF NEWS FOR SNAPCHAT: No, I'm --
LEMON: You're big-time. So, we have seen endorsements on Twitter and Instagram, but today, Arnold Schwarzenegger endorsed Kasich on Snapchat. Is this new? Is this -- what's going on here?
HAMBY: It is new and it's powerful. Arnold Schwarzenegger has a ton of followers on Snapchat and he has known John Kasich for a long time. Arnold has embraced the platform and Kasich has too.
LEMON: Let's watch it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, ACTOR: I want John Kasich to be the next nominee of the republicans and to also be the next president of the United States. Here he is!
[22:50:00] GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thank you, Arnold. Love you, man. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: On Snapchat!
HAMBY: It's a Snapchat scoop.
LEMON: It's really cool. Is this more effective than a traditional endorsement, you think?
HAMBY: I mean it depends -- it depends how you do it. Arnold obviously has a tremendous following. I think, you know, early adopters of Snapchat and other platforms get rewarded for it -- Arnold's one of them. John Kasich early on in the campaign was one of the first presidential candidates to go full-bore (ph) into using Snapchat.
You know why? Because he has two kids who are in high school and college and they use it and they said, "Dad, you've got to use it, it's where all of my friends are communicating. It's where they're getting their news," and John Kasich on the campaign trail in New Hampshire, in Iowa, on the road to Michigan, he uses Snapchat every day.
LEMON: So you were here for 2008 and 2012 when we were talking about oh, how is Facebook and Twitter and social media changing the game. How is this now different? Is it different because of the platform, the Snapchat platform? How is this different?
HAMBY: I think -- I think what's different now is that young people, first-time voters are increasingly disconnected from the traditional media ecosystem. They're not watching television. They're not reading The New York Times," but they are spending their time on places like Snapchat -- 60 percent of 18 to 34 year olds in this country who have a smart phone are using Snapchat.
This weekend I was covering CPAC in Washington and you know, everyone was using Snapchat to sort of document what was going on, what they were doing, they can serve meeting (ph), they were using filters. It's genuinely a new thing. But you know, again, I think the candidates who are using it are being rewarded for it.
LEMON: How do you think social media is changing the game? I know it seems like a broad question, but how do you think Gary?
GARY VAYNERCHUCK, AUTHOR: It's just attention arbitrage. I mean, you can't reach an under 25-year-old in America unless you're on Instagram and Snapchat, like that's a factor. Like, it's just attention arb. This has always what's happened. If you really want to go back to what happened between radio and television, that's really the biggest con to give us (ph) what's going on right now. We are living through a massive communication shift in society and people are grossly underestimating it.
LEMON: So, let me ask you this Gary, Donald Trump has taken to Twitter to attack anybody and everybody, this is according to "The New York Times." This is what "The New York Times" is saying, "202 people, places, and things Trump has insulted via Twitter." So here, if you put that up, and they say, "many of his fellow candidates for president, democrats and republican, the voters, a podium in the oval office, Fox News and many other media outlets and a Neil Young song.
LEMON: So why isn't this alienating his supporters?
VAYNERCHUCK: Guys, this is another communication mechanism, right? Like it's not -- it's not executing any differently in the paper or on the radio or in television. It's just another medium for his strategy.
LEMON: Is he unique?
VAYNERCHUCK: I don't think -- go ahead, please.
HAMBY: I absolutely think -- among presidential candidates, absolutely. Some days, look, some days it feels like Donald Trump, you know, there are real question about his campaign organization on the ground in some of these states, but some days when it comes to interacting with the media and knowing how the game works, it feels like he's playing chess when everyone else is playing checkers. Like it is a radically different media ecosystem in the campaign and it was just four years ago.
VAYNERCHUCK: I think we need -- I think we need to be careful about social media versus everything else because these are Donald's -- a lot of these are their teams. We haven't seen a live stream -- Don, we haven't seen a live stream --
LEMON: That was my question.
VAYNERCHUCK: -- from any of these candidates, like not one. So like yes, I believe Donald's doing his tweets if you look at it. Yes, like I hear, any (ph) on my team says that Bernie's doing it. But the fact of the matter is, not one periscope, not one Facebook live. Because the truth is, it's still a secondary thing for a lot of them.
LEMON: Okay, so they're using it like old people. Let's just be honest. Is that what you're saying?
VAYNERCHUCK: Don, most of Americans is using it like old people --
VAYNERCHUCK: This is not just a presidential candidate issue.
LEMON: You look at some of the things that some of the candidates send out, like Secretary Clinton sent out something during the GOP debates and you say, did she really send that out or did someone on her team send that out?
VAYNERCHUCK: I mean that is the biggest problem. They can prove everyday that it's -- I mean Snapchat really allows them to prove it more than the other mediums or Facebook live, and I think that they're substantially underestimating what happens when you go authentic.
LEMON: So being you is the most successful approach?
HAMBY: Yeah, I mean authenticity is kind of like a fetish in politics and everyone aspires to it, they fake it. Look at Bernie Sanders though. Bernie Sanders called Snapchat snapshot on Snapchat one day over the summer in one of our live stories, but people loved it.
People were tweeting about it because that's Bernie. And Bernie stands back from the camera and talks to the camera and is doing a selfie video, but that's okay because it's him. You know, every candidate's different but I do think that when you're standing back and sort off your staff is doing it, it definitely does --
LEMON: When you -- when you look at it -- what you're saying is and I think my Snapchat run away (ph) from us. This is what, so usually, this is what my Snapchat looks like right now, if you guys got this.
VAYNERCHUCK: Using a filter, I'm very impressed. I love it
[22:55:00] LEMON: Yeah, I just snapped it when you came in studio and so people sort of know -- by the way it's don_lemon on Snapchat.
VAYNERCHUCK: Bang, the plug!
LEMON: The plug, we're on Snapchat, but people know because on Snapchat you have to do it. You have to put it out there, right, live, or it doesn't go out.
VAYNERCHUCK: You're behind it like a team isn't behind your snap. It's not as easy as a tweet or a Facebook post.
LEMON: I love it when people say you've got to show me how to work Snapchat and I'm like it is the easiest thing to work.
VAYNERCHUCK: I'm obsessed with it. No, I'm obsessed with it.
LEMON: Okay, I want to look at your favorite moment, Peter, from social media. A social media moment from the campaign trail so far.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Why do you love this moment so much?
HAMBY: It's just so...
HAMBY: The internet has been so great. The cycle -- for all the complaints about, you know, the lack of substantive (ph) coverage and our attention spans, the memes that have come out of some of these press conferences are just fantastic. VAYNERCHUCK: Our attention spans are that way on television and
everthing else, too.
LEMON: Can I show you mine? Can I show you mine? Can we play mine real quick?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...and some of them are nice, I mean they're nice people. Then Carson said the other day that he wants to abolish Medicare, how can you...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: She's reading a book on what kind of racist (inaudible) and someone said don't read the book and she goes.
VAYNERCHUCK: Oh, she's going to read it.
LEMON: Hilarious, but these things would not happen if it weren't for social media. These little moments would not bubble up to the top like that.
HAMBY: Yeah, they empower the country, empower the world to get creative and create their own content.
VAYNERCHUCK: Social media is the slang term for the current state of the internet.
LEMON: Yeah, I got to go.
VAYNERCHUCK: Yeah, go!
LEMON: Thank you.
LEMONL All right, come back, don_lemon on Snapchat. And coming up in the hour ahead, the role the race is playing in the 2016 presidential election. I had a chance to question Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders about their racial blind spots during last night's democratic debate. We'll talk about their responses to that question.