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Hours Away From Super Tuesday: Round 2; Clinton Versus Sanders; The Importance of Florida; Remembering Nancy Reagan; Two Years Since MH-370 Vanished. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired March 7, 2016 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:41] DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: We're now just hours away from Super Tuesday round two. And the big states up for grabs tomorrow, Michigan and Mississippi.
This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
This is a pivotal week in the race for the White House. After the votes are counted tomorrow, the democrats face off in the debate on Wednesday and the GOP candidates on Thursday ahead of the key Florida and Ohio primaries next week.
There's a lot to get too and a very busy hour ahead. So joining me now is Van Jones, CNN Political Commentator who worked for President Obama, Senior Political Analyst, David Gergen, and adviser to four presidents, and Political Strategist, Angela Rye, and Contributor Bakari Sellers. Good to have you all of you on this evening.
Van jones, I'll start with you first. What did you think of last night's debate? What do you think there was a winner? I know you're going to say it was the people of Michigan, but was there a real winner on that stage?
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I do think the people of Flint won, because they finally got their voices heard.
Look, I don't think any minds got changed. I thought that it was -- if you like Bernie Sanders, I thought that he did a very good job. He had that moment where he said, "I'm going to release my transcripts," and when I talk to Wall Street, here they are because I don't talk to them. I thought that was hilarious.
So overall, I thought it was a good night for both of them. He definitely got caught flatfooted of course on that whole question around the auto bailout. It's much more complicated, his vote. It was surprising he was not prepared to be hit on that. He definitely was not prepared. He got very, very aggressive with her at that point. And I think that was not a good moment for him.
LEMON: Angela, do you think this debate was different than the GOP debate last week? ANGELA RYE, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Aren't all Democratic debates different than the GOP debates? It wasn't a reality show, Don, it is talking substantiative issues and while I would actually contend that Bernie Sanders struggles to get beyond Wall Street, campaign finance reform, mass incarceration issues, I think that it was still a very meaty debate and at least folks acted like adults, except for when, of course, Bernie Sanders said, "I'm talking." But other than that, I think it was a very grown up debate on the issue.
LEMON: Why are you so mad at that?
RYE: I think it was a little off-putting. I think personally as a woman, because he has this kind of burly voice that he is already sounding like he's yelling all the time, it was frustrating to see him do that particularly with like, not necessarily talk to the hand, but at least talk to the Bernie finger. It was a little too much debate.
LEMON: All right, I understand that, OK, I understand that as a woman. But if she's interrupting him, why wouldn't he say, "Let me finish."
RYE: Well, I think that it's fine to say, let me finish. I think it's different when you're saying, I'm talking, like when you're talking to someone less than or like child. I think that it was a little bit too much like I did.
LEMON: OK, Bakari Sellers, a major Florida newspaper the Sun-Sentinel says, it can't endorse any of the four GOP candidates. They say, "The Sun-Sentinel Editorial Board is not going to make an endorsement in Florida's March 15th Republican presidential primary because the kind of person that should be running is not in the race." Pretty damning, Bakari?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it's even more damning for who they didn't endorse. You know, Marco Rubio is the native son and Marco Rubio needs this victory. I don't know ...
LEMON: The Miami Herald did endorse him, though.
SELLERS: Well, I mean this is one paper who did endorse previously, but did not endorse in this time. But then just like to my point, I don't know any pathway to the presidency, Don that goes through Puerto Rico and Minnesota.
So Marco Rubio, has going to have to show that the can win some more states put together some victories here. Because look, Marco Rubio, he's at his last stand. You know, this is his mountain to die on or to continue on to the convention. If Marco Rubio doesn't win Florida, it's over.
So I look forward to the next 10 days being extremely, extremely exciting.
LEMON: David, this must be an especially tough blow for Marco Rubio. How bad is it for him that he loses -- if he loses his own home state?
DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: He's out. He's gone. He's finished in this race. He will lose the vice presidency, because I don't think after his, you know, after his controversies and his strange attacks on Donald Trump, he's not going to be chosen by Trump, if Trump is the nominee.
And I'm just not sure where he goes in politics. He's very young. Maybe he can have a comeback, but it will be very, very hard. He's got everything on the line in this Florida race.
[23:04:59] LEMON: Yeah, so Angela tried to jump the gun here for your question that I had for you Van. But last night I asked both candidates what racial blind spots they have.
Let's listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: In a speech about policing, the FBI Director James Comey borrowed a phrase from a Broadway show Avenue Q saying, "Everyone is a little bit racist." So on a personal front, what racial blind spots do you have? Secretary, you first.
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, Don, if I could, I think being a white person in the United States of America, I know that I've never had the experience that so many of people, the people in this audience have had.
And I think it's incumbent upon me and what I've been trying to talk about during this campaign, is to urge white people to think about what it is like to have the talk with your kids, scared that your sons or daughters, even, could get in trouble for no good reason whatsoever, like Sandra Bland, and end up dead in a jail in Texas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Van, did the secretary get it right?
JONES: Yeah, I think that she did.
Listen, I think it was a very courageous question to ask. I've never heard that asked before. I also think it was very courageous for them to try to answer. Because by definition, if you say, what's your racial blind spot, you're more likely to reveal it in the attempt to answer it.
LEMON: Exactly. Well, hello.
JONES: And so it's -- I think it was a courageous thing for you to do. I really applauded you. You got a lot of praise for it.
I also really applaud them for trying. And it's very, very difficult to stick your neck out, if you say one thing wrong, you know you're going to get pummeled. I thought they both gave substantively very good answers.
LEMON: Yeah, and I think that, you know, I think in a way, they were, without directly saying it, they were saying, this is something that I've never really had to think about by saying, "I don't know what it's like."
But I want you guys to listen to Bernie Sanders now. And then we'll discuss, here's Bernie Sanders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Senator Sanders, on a personal front, what racial blind spots do you have?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I-VT) DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When you're white, you don't know what it's like to be living in a ghetto. You don't know what its like to be poor. You don't know what it's like to be hassled when you walk down the street or you get dragged out of a car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right, so he got a lot of flack for that answer. Today he tried to clarify it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: What I meant by that is I think many white people are not aware of the kinds of pressures and the kind of police oppression that sometimes takes place within the African-American community.
I don't want to be lectured about talking about poverty, whether it's white, black, or Latino. Nobody in this campaign has talked about it more. And nobody in this campaign cycle, who has proposed more specific ideas on how to address.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Angela, what do you think?
RYE: So a couple of things. One, I think, in explaining his answer, he made hit worse. He said exactly what we thought he was saying last night, at least myself and my Twitter followers, right?
My immediate reaction was like, Bernie Sanders, "White people do live in the ghetto, too." And I think the other issue that I really have is exactly what we seem. Of course, he is by far the biggest champion on income inequality and mass incarcerations, as well as how police interact with people of color.
The challenge is Bernie Sanders has not yet realized, Don, that there are so many other issues that black people in particular care about. For example, our presence on corporate boards, for example, the fact that there are only a few CEOs at the top of fortune 500 companies, for example, affirmative action policies and their inability to really make amends for leveling the playing field after our historic issues with racism and slavery in this country.
So he's got a whole lot of other issues that he's got to discuss that don't just deal with income and poor black people. There are middle class black people that also have issues. And it's clear he doesn't have adviser to talk to him about that.
LEMON: And also, listen, keep in mind, so he had only a certain amount of time to get an answer out. Go ahead, David Gergen.
GERGEN: Well, this is a very tough issue, isn't it? I'm very sympathetic with people who say the candidates aren't saying enough, they're not sympathetic. But I must rise to the defense of Bernie Sanders, as well as Hillary Clinton. Both of these people have worked most of their lives on the right side of this issue, trying to push for a greater racial equality, more opportunity.
You know, People forget about Hillary Clinton and the younger generation, how she went to work for Marian Wright Edelman and for the Children's Defense Fund. Marian Wright Edelman is one of the most noble women in this country, one of the most noble Americans.
And I think they deserve more credit for what they've done, and less sort of like the scrutiny about the black ghetto.
Yes, he made a wrong statement, yes, he was wrong Bernie Sanders is wrong in saying that. But the truth was he -- if he said black neighborhood, there had been no question. So he stumbled over his words. Stumbling over his words versus a lifetime of working on -- for a good cause is ...
[23:10:07] LEMON: I agree.
GERGEN: I don't understand that.
LEMON: I think people tend to cut him some slack, because they believe his heart is in the right place.
Go ahead, Bakari.
SELLERS: Yeah, Don, I was going to say that even, I'm one of Bernie Sanders' larger critics in his discussions about race and pivoting out of the box that Angela so eloquently described.
But just to push back on David slightly, the way we're talking about race is different than when even Hillary Clinton went and worked for Marian Wright Edelman. It's different than when Bernie Sanders protested in Chicago. Not to say those things don't matter, but African-Americans in this country today are facing a different cataclysm of issues. And therefore it requires a new discussion.
But I can honestly say, just to lift them both up, at least we're having a discussion. This is a discussion that was very difficult to have with a black president, but I'm glad we're having it now. And this is a discussion that Democrats are embracing now, which is why I think African-Americans will be better off in this election moving forward.
LEMON: Go ahead, David.
GERGEN: I agree that the conversation has to move forward. But I think we wouldn't be here if weren't not for the Marian Wright Edelman's and the Jesse Jacksons and the John Lewis' and certainly Martin Luther King and all the rest.
And so I think that they deserve some credit for that. And I must say, Don, I had some question about your assumption, well, they had struggled with the conversation last night because they'd never thought about it. I think they thought about it a ton.
Many, many white -- I make a lot of mistakes in this area. Look, I teach and it's like walking through minefields. You've got to be very careful what you say.
But those of us who are white are struggling to find the language that in which we can build bridges to each other, which we can find where each other is that we can listen to each other in a more respectful way.
I think this campaign has helped with that. I think particularly the Democratic Party debate has helped with that. We're not there yet, but I guess I just feel -- we ought to be more charitable toward each other.
LEMON: Listen I agree 100 percent with everything you said. And if we're going to have a conversation that is meaningful, we have to allow others some leeway. So I respect what you just said.
Go ahead, Van.
JONES: Yup, well, I agree as well, I think that part of the reason why it's hard to talk about race. We always and we want to talk about race. But then if someone says something slightly odd.
LEMON: You start yelling at them, right.
JONES: It's kind of like, it's not fair, it's like. So I think that, you know, for me, I think if he had just said, the hood -- we don't know if nobody says ghetto anymore.
JONES: I think that we don't know what it's like to live in the hood. Everyone would be like, yehey ...
RYE: But that's not true, either.
LEMON: But you have to understand though, you have to understand that certain words don't mean certain things to, because ghetto in a broader term doesn't necessarily mean just black neighborhoods, right. You can have an Irish ghetto, you can have a Jewish ghetto, you can have all ...
JONES: Look, you got to remember this guy is in his 70s, he's Jewish, the word "Ghetto" for Jewish people ...
RYE: But Van, he needs to have young advisers on his team like Simon Sanders who his (inaudible). Who's in his kitchen cabinet? We know who's in Hillary's kitchen cabinet. LEMON: Which goes to my point that they may not have thought about this point, that's all I'm saving, David Gergen. So don't beat me up, OK.
All right, so standby.
SELLERS: It was a good question, Don.
RYE: It was a great question.
LEMON: Thank you, OK, standby everyone, stay with me. And make sure you stay with CNN for March madness in the campaign trail. We have all the days coverage tomorrow Super Tuesday round two Wednesday night where simulcasting Univision Democratic debate from Miami, it's at 9:00 Eastern. And on Thursday, soon as Republican debate from Miami at 8:30 p.m. Eastern time.
Everyone, stay with me.
Again, up next Bernie Sanders has been a winning states even though Hillary Clinton is leading in delegates. Should she be worried?
Also exactly two years ago tomorrow Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 vanished into the night sky. The jetliner has not been found. What do we know at this point?
[23:17:30] LEMON: Back now with Van Jones, David Gergen, Angela Rye and Bakari Sellers.
So David Gergen was -- we mentioned in the last block, how tough it is to talk about this issue in classrooms and really just in our personal lives.
So I'm going to ask you the questions, starting with Van Jones. What is your racial blind spot?
JONES: I have no prejudice against anyone and I pass.
LEMON: All right.
JONES: And look, I'll tell you the truth. You know, when I first moved out of the south, I had no experience with anybody except for black Protestants and white Protestants. When I got to law school on the east coast, I had never met a Jewish person. I had never met, in any serious way, an Asian person.
And so I was surprised -- I had a friend, and I was say, "Gee, I love to meet a Jewish person," the person said, "I am Jewish."
I didn't even know what a Jewish person looked like. So that should give you a sense how we don't have a diverse country, we live in bubbles that touch. And if you don't have the opportunity to really be in part, something with people for a while you can give offense and way that you have no idea. LEMON: Well that was the thing it says everyone -- the reason it was is because the director of the FBI James Comey was in a speech saying, you know, he quoted Avenue Q saying, "Everybody's a little bit racist, and wouldn't we better off," the song goes on, said, "Wouldn't we better of that if we just admit it and talk about it," as David said, just saying "Yeah, maybe I have a racial blind spot." What that's really talking about is this implicit bias, right.
So Angela, what's your racial blind spot?
RYE: I would say being just defensive, assuming that white people don't understand me or my experience. And that's hard for me, because I think it's something I transitioned into in moving to D.C. It's become very black and white for me, whereas I grew up in Seattle, Washington, which is a melting pot, my dad had us around all types of different people and all types of different activism.
So I grew up fighting for all types of racial injustice for all different types of different communities. And so being here where it's very black or white or brown and no call-mingling on issues. I think it's been tough for me. And so I automatically assume that people don't understand and I would like to get rid of that.
SELLERS: Well, I think mine comes from a place that's very historical for me and personal for me. You know, father was shot in the Orangeburg massacre. He was, you know, in his neck (ph). And we had that heartache and pain here. In fact I remember standing next to you, when you and I shed a tear when the confederate flag came down.
So for me, it's rather relatively emotional, and I think I let my emotions sometimes consume me when we're having this discussion of race. Because I understand that we've made a lot of progress in this country. But still we have yet a ways to go.
[23:20:07] So I think for me, it's allowing my emotions sometimes to cloud the reality in which I live. But that comes because my father's blood is literally in the soil of the state I love so much.
LEMON: And I saved the best for last, David Gergen?
GERGEN: Well I came out of the south as well and I grew up in North Carolina and one of the most satisfying times I've ever had public life was working for a Governor Terry Sanford, very progressive and worked with him on Civil Rights. And but I thought I understood that generation of African-Americans, and I must say as I get older, I have a blind spot I think in trying to understand the perspective of younger African-Americans because there is a lot of anger and dissatisfaction. I see a lot of progress, but I -- I'm also trying to cope with there obviously still deep-seeded issues that I don't understand very well.
And through the generosity of Sheila Johnson, who is a cofounder of Black Entertainment Television, we now have a lot more African- American students coming to the county school where I teach and I spend a lot of time with them. And I just -- I need to -- we need to build bridges to each other and I need to spend more time listening to the -- as Angela said, so I can understand where we still have to go.
I thought, you know, frankly back in the '60s, we would have solved mostly of these problems. I thought before I left this good earth, we would have really conquered the problems of race relations in this country and it's been a great disappointment to me that we have not. And I think we have to double down.
LEMON: So I've shared mine and mine is sort of close to Bakari's and to Angela Rye's, is that when there is a slight of some sort or if I don't feel included in some way that I don't always jump to race or racism as a default. And working as a journalist, I think that I overcome that at least to the extent you can.
And that's really tough for African-Americans to overcome, because we see Van, Bakari, Angela, we see it in our social media feeds, where people don't understand that one, in order to be in this role, in this position, one must be objective.
And as one of my mentors says, it is not your job to be super black man. You're a journalist and you have to be objective. We know how you feel. We know that you're human. But you have to be objective. You have to serve all of your viewers. As much as a president has to serve every person in the United States, every citizen of the United States.
Go ahead, van.
JONES: It's also, it's this weird thing now, where for instance, you take someone like a Donald Trump and he's angry, it's almost like it's a badge of honor, it's like his whole claim to fame is, he's angry.
And I think to myself, when is it OK for anybody else to be angry? If I said I'm a young Muslim leader and I'm going to channel the anger of the Muslims, people would be trying to put to me under the prison. Or if I'm a lesbian, I'm going to get all those angry lesbians together we must be heard, we're going to channel our anger. That's not welcome.
But for some reason, this one white dude can be the angriest person in the world that we're all like Catholic ...
RYE: And he's taken us back so far. You're literally watching someone who -- and I have not seen or experienced the '60s, but I've watched it on Eyes on the Prize heard and I've heard it from my parents and I've heard it from other -- I'm just being honest with you. We have to watch it every black history month with my family.
So when you see someone who's literally taking us back to that, it's scary. I watched a black girl get physically pushed out of his rally last week. That's not OK. And we're laughing at this stuff. It's not OK.
LEMON: Go ahead, David.
GERGEN: I just say, one of the things that I have welcomed this year is this, we have much more diversity among people who are commenting on our politics than I've ever seen before. And I think having people like Van on regularly on CNN has been a real blessing for CNN, because we hear a voice that we haven't always heard before. And we have to hear more voices from people who sit far -- too far down the table and have not been in positions of power. That's the way we're going to bring the country together.
And so I think at least we can celebrate the fact that there are so many more diverse voices now on television, and here on CNN, that makes for a richer conversation and a productive conversation.
LEMON: So both Democratic candidates have met with Black Lives Matter and Spokespeople. Republicans though have yet to engage with that movement or the people from that.
Bakari, why is that? Well, is this going to -- how much will this matter?
SELLERS: Well, I mean, I think that Rants and Sean Spicer have great hearts. I think that they came into this election with the intentions of actually broadening their base, you know, having a Marco Rubio who was actually talking about some of these issues, a Rand Paul who was talking about some of these issues. You know, Tim Scott, Rand Paul, Cory Booker working together.
However, when you have Ted Cruz and when you have Donald Trump, who monopolize the conversation. And Donald Trump just tapped into this George Wallace vein of the political discourse that we're having in this country now, you know, the PlayBook's thrown out the window. You know, I go back to the first debate they had, when Scott Walker literally spent 47 seconds talking about civil rights and issues that were related to Black Lives Matter.
[23:25:00] And just recently, in Detroit, Michigan, Marco Rubio gave the wrong answer to the flint water crisis. And we all know that flint wouldn't happen in Orange county, flint wouldn't happen in a majority white neighborhood. But yet, the Republican Party didn't want to answer those questions.
So I just think that they have kind of thrown their hands up in the air and they're scrambling ...
LEMON: There is one bright spot.
Quickly, Van, I got to go.
JONES: The one bright spot, Paul Ryan. Paul Ryan has really impressing ...
BAKARI: Paul Ryan.
JONES: ... he has lifted up the issue of poverty, he's trying to figure this out. There is one bright spot is Paul Ryan.
GERGEN: Yeah, but for Republican candidates should have gone to flint. It was good the Democrats went. The Republican candidates should have gone.
LEMON: They can still go.
GERGEN: They should still go.
LEMON: You can have a conversation on race without yelling at people or calling them names or racist or whatever. I mean look, we're doing it.
All right, thank you, see you guys soon.
Get ready, Super Tuesday II, its tomorrow.
Up next, Marco Rubio must win his home state of Florida. He is trailing in the GOP race overall. Can he make a come back?
LEMON: The winner-take-all Florida primary will be a turning point in the battle for GOP nomination.
[23:30:01] Trump, Cruz and Rubio throwing everything they have into the race, but as we mentioned, the Sun-Sentinel put out an editorial this weekend entitled "Why we can't endorse Trump, Rubio, Cruz or Kasich" saying, none of them is qualified to be president.
So joining me now is Bob Cusack, Editor in Chief of the Hill and Matt Lewis, Senior Contributor to "The Daily Caller." Welcome back, gentleman.
BOB CUSACK, EDITOR IN CHIEF, THE HILL: Hey, there.
MATT LEWIS, SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR, DAILY CALLER: Thank you.
LEMON: Little secret in our 10:00 hour, eastern hour. Bu they're back. They were so good, we're having them back. Bob, the "Sun- Sentinel" said they can't endorse anyone, even their own Senator. How'd we get to this point?
CUSACK: Well, I think anecdotally, a lot of my friends who maybe lean right, they have -- and actually, some that also lean left, they are not satisfied with the field. It's amazing, because we've had so many candidates, especially on the Republican side, that you're seeing a lot of voters who are unsure. And I think that why Michael Bloomberg was considering getting in, more so if Sanders had defeated Hillary Clinton. That looks less likely now. And Donald Trump appealing to many voters, but certainly not all in the Republican establishment so I think there are some voters out there who despite all of these candidates, are very frustrated.
LEMON: OK, so let's look at this Monmouth university poll Matt. It shows Marco Rubio losing to Trump by eight points, 38 percent to 30 percent. A smaller margin than other recent polls. And his campaign says, he's got momentum. So, can he win?
LEWIS: He can win. It's not going to be easy, but Rubio will plant himself in Florida. And run as if his political life depends on it, because it does. And as a sitting U.S. senator, he will have an operation and infracture that cannot be arrival. And, look, I think he has to have the stars align. A lot of things have to go right for Marco Rubio to pull it off. But the good news for him is that Trump -- we've seen a pattern, whether or not it will continue, we don't know, but the pattern is that Rubio overperforms at the end, and that people who are sort of late deciders will break towards Rubio.
So he has a shot at this thing, and, you know, fingers crossed for Rubio. If he loses Florida, obviously, it's just the next humiliation in a long line of recent humiliations.
LEMON: Yeah, but what about the rest of his political life? Because he's getting hit saying, oh, you know, he's not doing his job in the senate. I mean, can he end up sort of, you know, Chris Christieish?
LEWIS: I mean, it's amazing, because I really believe that Marco Rubio is probably the most talented political rising star that I've seen in a long time. I think he was sort of a once in a generation, political talent, incredibly eloquent. And you know, I think he -- it's really kind of a shame. I mean in a rational world, you might have Marco Rubio being the Republican nominee to go up against Hillary Clinton. But right now I think ...
LEMON: Was it 2008, when he was elected senator?
LEMON: 2010. I remember being in Florida as he was elected, and Biltmore it was his headquarters, and I remember being there saying, this young guy. And so, it was -- people were surprised by his rise.
LEWIS: And now, a year from now, he very well could be completely out of politics. You know, and maybe the best that he could hope for is not to become president, it's to avoid humiliation.
LEMON: Yeah. Bob, he has had a lot of money, big endorsements, the backing of the establishment, yet he has only won 2 of 20 contests. Why hasn't his campaign succeeded more so than this?
CUSACK: He wasn't the establishment's pick in 2010 when he ran for the Senate, but now he is. And I think that can also be hurting him. And big question is whether or not Jeb Bush is going to get behind him. Listen, I think Marco Rubio has a bright future. I mean, Peyton Manning just retiring, he's 40 years old and he's an hold man in football. But in politics, Rubio since mid 40s has a bright future. Maybe it's not his time -- this time. And certainly it's been an very unconventional cycle.
But I think that some voters, maybe they're looking for something different. Less scripted and I think the debate later this week will be big for Marco Rubio.
LEMON: But is he paying a price for not taking on Trump and trading insults?
CUSACK: Oh, yeah.
LEMON: With that insult.
CUSACK: Oh, with that and I think.
LEMON: For now I should say taking on Trump in trading insult for insult.
CUSACK: Yeah, I think ...
LEMON: Because as he coming office.
CUSACK: ... yeah, he should have taken him on earlier.
LEMON: Is he coming off as -- and this is what I thought. I wondered why he was doing it. It's like, it was sort, I know you are, but what am I, right from him?
CUSACK: Yeah. Now, I think going after Trump in his own way earlier would have been better. And certainly a lot of candidates didn't go after Trump in the beginning.
Jeb Bush didn't attack Trump in the first debate and that was viewed at the time to be kind of a wise move. Because Donald Trump will just fade and Rubio didn't go after him. You know this obsession by the establishment operatives about the lane or we're winning our lane. We're winning the establishment lane. We heard it from Bush people. We heard if from Rubio people.
[23:35:10] It doesn't matter this cycle. Because usually the establishment candidate does to the win, but it does not look like the establishment candidate is going to get the nomination this time around.
LEMON: Matt, what about his campaign organization? Has it been effective?
LEWIS: Well, I think that the thing with -- sorry, the thing with Marco Rubio is he's incredibly talented, obviously, as a speaker. I think in terms of messaging, they're really, really good. The thing that we wonder about is the organization. I mean, I was anecdotally heard stories about Rubio comes town, gives a great speech, you know, sweeps people off their feet, they love it, and then they don't hear from him again. Nobody is there to sort of organize the precinct chairman or the county.
All that stuff that Ted Cruz's campaign is really confident and really adept at doing. And so, you know, nobody -- it's really hard to gauge a grassroots campaign, because by definition, it's sort of stealth and under the radar. But I do wonder if Rubio, you know, great at the messaging, great at the sort of wholesale stuff, but at the sort of retail organizing level, I wonder about the campaign there.
LEMON: Do you guys remember, you know, sort of not really in the beginning, but sort of in the middle of where we are now, in the beginning, the other candidates were saying, well, you guys give Donald Trump too much attention, when they really weren't coming on television or accepting interviews. Donald Trump is a master at generating free attention in the media, calling in, doing interviews. Is Marco Rubio's media strategy part of the problem here? Matt, you first.
LEWIS: Yeah, I think it's very interesting. The first time I met Rubio was in 2010 when he was running for Senate. He was the outsider, this grassroots insurgent candidate Tea Party guy running against the incumbent, you know, Charlie Crist was the governor the establishment favorite running for U.S. Senate. And Rubio realized that they couldn't get press in Florida, that they weren't going to be taken seriously, so they did this counterintuitive thing, they sort of went national first, and Rubio did a great job of courting mean stream media, national media and center-right bloggers, conservative bloogers.
And Charlie, he was incredibly accessible. He was very easy to get a hold of them. And it was sort of like the straight talk express model. And I think this time around, they were much more guarded with him. They didn't put him out there and I think it cost them, ultimately.
LEMON: Yeah. Well, Bob, Matt ate up all your time. So next time.
LEWIS: Yes, I do.
LEMON: Thank you, guys, appreciate it.
Just ahead, a top official of the Reagan White House remembers the charisma and charm of former First Lady, Nancy Reagan.
[23:41:50] LEMON: The funeral for the former First Lady Nancy Reagan will be held on Friday. She died yesterday in Los Angeles at the age of 94. And will be buried next to President Reagan at his library in Simi Valley, California.
Joining me now is Kenneth Duberstein, who served as President Reagan's White House Chief of Staff. Thank you. Mr. Duberstein for joining us. Sorry for your loss.
KENNETH DUBERSTEIN, PRES. REAGAN'S WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Don, thank you. I appreciate it.
LEMON: You served two terms with the Reagan administration and had the rare opportunity to really get to know the former First Lady Nancy Reagan. Tell us about the woman you knew.
DUBERSTEIN: She was a fierce protector of the president. She had great instincts. She was a good personnel person, in the sense that she could figure out quickly who was on her husband's agenda and who had their own agenda. She was always looking for opportunities to make her Ronnie look even better. You know, every time she walked into a room, you could see him strut just a little bit stronger. She lit up his life. It was an absolutely magical, not Hollywood love affair, but a true partnership and a real love affair. They were mutually reinforcing.
LEMON: Yeah. I'm glad you mentioned Hollywood, because Nancy Reagan lived an extraordinary life. Meeting the former president when she was a young actress, living in Hollywood, and then at the White House. What were the early years of their relationship like, before he was president, when they met in Hollywood?
DUBERSTEIN: Well, let me tell you something about Hollywood. The first movie that Nancy Davis did with Ronald Reagan was "Hell cats of the Navy."
DUBERSTEIN: Starring Ronald Reagan. In the last year of the Reagan presidency, we organized a Ronald Reagan film festival. And the first movie that we showed in the family theater was "Hellcats of the Navy." As we began to have people seated, the President got up and explained the makings of the movie. And then told everybody, my first on-camera kiss with then Nancy Davis was in "Hellcats of the Navy." Nancy, weren't you come up front and let's reenact that scene.
LEMON: Can we bring it to now? Because I want to, you know, tell you about the president. Yesterday, the current President and t current First Lady, Michelle Obama, said that Nancy Reagan redefined the role of a first lady. How did she do that?
DUBERSTEIN: Just say no. She took on drugs and alcohol with youth. She believed in causes and she was willing to put her name on top and absolutely advocate for those causes. In later life, obviously, Alzheimer's, because of the president.
LEMON: why was just say no so important to her, firstly?
[23:45:01] DUBERSTEIN: Ronnie's -- excuse me, her Ronnie's father was an alcoholic, there was alcoholism throughout the families, she knew the dangers of drugs and she wanted to convince the next generation of Americans, this is not something they want to dabble with.
LEMON: Yeah. And then later on, she took on Alzheimer's because of her husband.
DUBERSTEIN: Right, exactly right.
LEMON: Because he had Alzheimer's. The name Ronald Reagan, Mr. Duberstein, is often invoked as the gold standard of Republicans today. What do you think he would think of where the GOP is today, the current state of the GOP and this particular election?
DUBERSTEIN: Well, you know, Don, he was a principled conservative, but he believed that he was elected president to get things done, not to just block things. And what he wanted to do more than anything else is get our country ahead. I have often said he started out to change our country, and he wound up changing the world. Tip O'neill used to say, I don't like compromising with Ronald Reagan, because every time I compromise, President Reagan gets 80 percent of what he wants. And Reagan would say, that's what governing is all about.
And I am afraid in these days, on both sides of the aisle, what you're now experiencing is 100 percent or nothing. And I think we need to get back, as a country, and as a government, to 80 percent solution. Compromise in Washington is now a four-letter word.
LEMON: Thank you, Mr. Duberstein, I appreciate it. Kenneth Duberstein, President Ronald Reagan's White House Chief of Staff. Thank you.
DUBERSTEIN: Don, thank you.
LEMON: And when we come right back, Malaysia Airlines flight 370, disappearing two years ago. What do we know about what happened to the jetliner?
[23:50:45] LEMON: What wall marks two years since Malaysia Airlines flight 370 disappeared 239 people on board. Tonight, the family still don't know what happened to their loved ones. Can you believe that?
Joining me now, CNN Aviation Correspondent Mr. Richard Quest. His new book is "The Vanishing of flight MH370. The true story of the hunt for the missing Malaysian plane." I can't believe it's been two years.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Two years.
LEMON: That's a two right now for Malaysia.
QUEST: This time two years ago we were just getting the first reports that the plane had gone missing. And this is the awful part. Even though they believe they've got a good ideaish where the plane went down, two years on, there's no better evidence and we've no better understanding of what took place that led the plane to go missing. Plenty of people have got theories and ideas and speculation. But we still don't know nefarious or mechanical ...
LEMON: OK, we're talking about that. But there is some new information. Because there was some recently found debris in Mozambique.
LEMON: What do you know about that?
QUEST: This Mozambique debris there's a lot more skepticism about it than there was with the flaperon, but even if it is real and it's going to be sent to Malaysia and then Australia. Even if it is part of the plane, it's not going to give up many secrets, certainly won't tell us where the plane is, it might give us a scintilla of a clue about how it broke off from the aircraft, which will tell you whether it was in a sharp dive or a more controlled dive, but I'm doubtful.
LEMON: Other debris off the coast of Africa and Australia, correct?
QUEST: The only other piece has been the flaperon. LEMON: Right.
QUEST: That large piece and that was found off Reunion Island. And there will be more. There will be more to debris bit by bit, but not much.
LEMON: All right, let's talk about this book.
LEMON: Right, because this is how you and I became good friends. I mean, we spend many, many hours together and that's how this show actually started at 10:00 p.m. this show was called "Special report" I remember saying good evening, this is Don Lemon. This is CNN Special Report, the mystery of flight 370.
QUEST: And I've couldn't written the book without CNN and that's why I've dedicated the book to CNN, and to all the colleagues behind and in front of the camera, because it was the journalism of this network that frankly allowed we have the body of research to write the book.
LEMON: So in the first couple of days, I guess, you know, we sort of tried to figure out exactly what was happening with the plane, but we don't know much more, as you said.
QUEST: None. We really don't. I mean, I can feel people going to be Tweeting me, at Richard Quest to say we know it was the pilot, it wasn't the pilot, it was this, but we genuinely don't know and anyone who says they do is making it up. And what I think we do know is that, although I believe, Malaysia was pretty awful, at the way they handled the families and the way they handled the flow of information, actually, the way they did the searching was not that bad. We ignored many of the facts at time that were open and available to us.
LEMON: This is a picture of you with the first officer (inaudible) within the first couple of days. You realize that you had just met with the first officer, you just flown with him?
QUEST: I had, two weeks earlier. We were filming for "CNN Business Traveler." We've gone from Hong Kong to Kuala Lumpur. We've filmed on the flight deck, and that was Fariq Hamid. And the only way I found out about that it was him on board, was time -- last two years ago, people started Tweeting for me, saying, why is there a picture of you with the co-pilot.
The conspiracy theorists believed that CNN knew what was going to happen, we were part of what was going to happen, that CNN clearly had a hand in it all. They have never let up on this aspect.
LEMON: I can't wait to read this. Have there been any significant changes as I looked through this in tracking planes, plane safety?
QUEST: Yes, yes today, in fact, just today, the U.N. body has absolutely said, planes must be tracked every 15 minutes. And if something goes on, it must be able to track once a minute. So the plane will automatically know and send out the signal. But it doesn't come in until 2018, Don. That it's taken way too long to sort this out.
LEMON: Oh, there it is, a picture of the, you know what. What am I talking about?
QUEST: Well, you're talking about the incident.
LEMON: The infamous -- the mised uunderstand.
QUEST: The black hole incident.
LEMON: The most and misunderstood because we were doing that to dismiss conspiracy theories, right? To say, there's no way that, you know, something like this happened, but people took it the wrong way it just became this moment.
[23:55:10] QUEST: I did, I became -- and I think it was unfortunate. I mean, in that same incident that you are and Mary Schiavo about the black hole, I asked Jeff Weiss about whether psychics could be involved. And I think people ...
LEMON: Those were viewer questions.
QUEST: Those were viewer questions.
LEMON: So we have done two hours before on, you know ...
QUEST: Over weeks.
LEMON: Over weeks and it was but maybe 30 seconds into the show.
LEMON: I think it's interesting, because you have a quote here from -- what was it, 215?
QUEST: Yeah. On page 215 and thereafter. Yeah, it's a quote from the boss.
LEMON: The boss said to you.
QUEST: Who basically says, everyone has forgotten that we discounted it and that actually ...
LEMON: Would you go back and look at the tape, he says Don was just reacting to questions that were submitted from viewers. No one remembers that it was a viewer question or that Don dismissed it. It's interesting, right? Because it becomes something funny and then it becomes a mean. But this is fascinating that the sad thing is that, I know that we have to go. The sad thing is the families still don't know.
QUEST: They don't know, they don't believe, and they compensate their ability to claim compensation, the deadline was today.
LEMON: "The Vanishing of Flight MH370," The True story of the hunt for the missing Malaysian plane, Aviation Correspondent, Richard Quest, thank you.
QUEST: Thank you sir.
LEMON: Thank you. Incredible work you're doing. We'll be right back.
[00:00:00] LEMON: Stay with CNN for March madness on the campaign trail. We're going to have all-day coverage tomorrow, Super Tuesday, round two. Wednesday night we're simulcasting Univision's Democratic debate from Miami at 9:00 eastern. And on Thursday CNN Republican debate from Miami at 8:30 p.m.