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AT THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA
Turkish President Critical of Europe on Terrorism; John Kasich Press Conference; Former Wisconsin Lt. Governor Endorses Sanders. Aired 11:30-12p ET
Aired March 31, 2016 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:30:00] CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And there is a long-standing, rather horrified look from outside since the Donald Trump campaign at what's going on in the U.S.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's also talk about -- that will continue, of course, that conversation. But also this conversation you had with the Turkish president in talking about -- he was quite critical of Europe and how they're handling ISIS and the threat, especially of foreign fighters, tracking them within their own borders. Listen to this and then we'll discuss.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, TURKISH PRESIDENT (through translation): It was obvious that he was affiliated and involved in the conflict zones and he was wounded. That is the reason why he was deported. And this is the information that was communicated to Belgium. He was born in 1986, and we can call them a young person, and Belgium, unfortunately, attached no significance to this piece of information, and these incidents happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So there the president is telling me in chapter and verse how they found el Bakraoui, one of the airport bombers in Brussels more than a year ago, identified him and deported him back to the West, Belgium and the Netherlands, one after the other. He was saying they did not recognize the threat level of this man, despite what Turkey told him. Europeans are saying Turkey may have deported him but never told them he was a jihadi. He's taking issue with that. He's saying they don't know what a jihadi is.
AMANPOUR: It doesn't help at all. And what's happening is in this blame game and as we see the security apparatus talking about now a super cell, which even European security hadn't prepared for, you know, with French connections and Belgium connections. What he was saying there has to be a much more effective intelligence sharing.
BOLDUAN: That's clearly going to have to be part of the conversation, especially in Washington.
Christiane, great to see you. Thank you so much.
AMANPOUR: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: You can see more of Christiane's interview with the Turkish president on amanpour.com.
Coming up, days before voters in Wisconsin go to the polls, a key endorsement for Bernie Sanders. Why the state's former lieutenant governor is switching sides.
[11:36:30] BOLDUAN: Welcome back. You're looking right there, Governor John Kasich holding a press conference right now here in New York. He's really using the press conference to lay out his reasons why Donald Trump should not, cannot be president. Let's listen in.
JOHN KASICH, (R), OHIO GOVERNOR & PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't even know how he went there. In picking the Supreme Court justice, that Donald Trump suggested that any Supreme Court justice must make a commitment to review and investigate Hillary's e-mails. I don't know how you do that. That's something I can't even figure out.
Listen, in our country today and around the world, it really gets to something that's a really simple point. We have people who are intent on destroying civilization as we know it. And the vast majority of peoples all across this globe are committed to not only preserving civilization but also restoring civilization. At that end, it takes cooperation. It takes restraint. It takes judgment. It takes experience. Not wild-eyed suggestions and basically moving from one suggestion and then the need to try to explain what you really meant once you realized that the suggestion you made confused people or enraged people. That is not the way that a president of the United States. It is not the way that a leader of the free world or the commander-in-chief of our country to be so casually talking about the use, by the way, of nuclear weapons. It just shows that he's really not prepared to be president of the United States.
But I want to also make clear to all of you here that for those people who have been fervent Trump supporters, their frustration, their expressions do not fall on deaf ears from me. I know that many of those Trump supporters are people who fear for the security of their jobs, believing that politicians don't care about them as they see the rich get richer and they are increasingly stuck without wage increases. I understand the concern they have about the fact that they continue to work hard but they can't seem to get ahead with wages not rising but yet the costs around them increasing. I can absolutely understand and even commiserate with those mothers and fathers who always believed that if their sons and daughters went and received a higher education, went to college, community college, that they would have a better life, and many of those children are currently living in the basement of mom and dad with mom and dad wondering what kind of a life will they have?
Oh, you see, I understand it because I lived it. I understand it because my little town was a place, where people did not have economic security, where people who one day would play by the rules would wake up and find there wasn't anything for them, people who never seem to get the special things that can come in life. And they were God- fearing, hard working, community people, who wanted nothing more than the great American legacy, which is their children could do better than they've done. I do understand it. And there are ways to resolve this. There are clear ways in which we can restore economic security. There are ways in which we can begin to improve the situation with wages. There are ways in which we can give them hope that their children can have a great life.
[11:40:18] We've seen a real glimpse of it when I was chairman of the Budget Committee and worked with Senator Dominici to balance the budget. And then in Ohio where now we have pulled ourselves out of a ditch, where we're growing jobs by over 400,000 private sector jobs with wages growing faster than the national average, and with the sense that everyone is included.
You know, I think there are a lot of people out there that say that why is there nobody speaking for me, why is it there's nobody working for me, why is it that I hear these promises out of politicians and nothing good ever comes. Well, you know, I share their frustration. You know, in addition to being a candidate for president of the United States and governor of the great state of Ohio, I'm also a citizen. And I see what's happening. And I know it's frustrating. But to the Trump voters, there's hope. We've done it before, putting a team together to improve people's situation, including those who lived in the shadows. And, secondly, we can do it again. So while the person that you have favored continues to move in an untethered fashion, I understand that at times he's the vessel for your frustration, and I want to offer myself up as a new vessel that can actually understand your problems, recognize your problems, and work aggressively to fix them.
I take orders from no one other than my wife. I fought the establishment all of my career, and been able to beat them. And I'm willing to fight and I will beat them again.
Let me take a few questions.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE). Is that an important pledge?
KASICH: Let's go back. That was asked in the first debate, and that was 12 debates ago. And first of all, I don't believe that Donald Trump will be the nominee. This will go to a convention. Senator Cruz needs almost 90 percent of the delegates going forward to win the required number and avoid a convention. There's a greater chance that you will fly out of this building and land in midtown than there is -- well, you're in midtown, but to fly up to where the ball is that's dropping at the end of the year than it is for Ted Cruz to have enough delegates to go to a convention. Donald Trump needs about 60 percent of the delegates. And after New York and Pennsylvania and New Jersey and Connecticut, places where I believe you're going to begin to see him decline, I don't believe he'll have the delegates either. Let's see who they pick. Let's see what happens at a convention. And at that point, I'll make a decision about my endorsement.
And I want you to understand endorsement, there's kind of two groups of people, maybe there's three groups of people that I have to take into consideration. Number one, the people of Ohio. They would rank third. Number two would be my dear friends. They would rank second. And my family, my wife and my two daughters, two 16-year-old daughters who are impressionable. When I make a recommendation, at this point -- in my life before, it probably didn't matter that much, but at this point because of the nature of this election, it's going to matter what my wife and daughters think. And so I've got to make sure that I can represent them appropriately. And -- but all of those considerations have to be made, of course, including the great people of the state of Ohio who have given me the privilege of serving them as governor.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A poll puts you in last place in New York City in GOP.
KASICH: How close is it?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Within a point.
KASICH: One point. Well, that's kind of hard to say last. Of course, I might be second, but there's only three in.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And it also puts you in giving both Sanders and Hillary the best run for their money in New York of the three.
[11:44:45] KASICH: Isn't that the most bizarre thing? I trail Hillary by five points and Trump trails her by 20. Now, here in New York, we're going to do well. We're going to be competitive here. We're going to work very hard. Despite the fact that I got caught eating a piece of my pizza with a fork, I think we can overcome that and get ourselves in -- by the way, I want you all to know that despite all the criticism I'm getting, my wife who heard about this on the Twitter, called me last night and said she was proud that I have finally learned how to use utensils. But anyway, I think we'll do well here. I think we're going to be competitive in Pennsylvania. I think the calendar will move our way. I expect to do well in New York, and we're going to keep at this.
Look, what's happening now is finally people are starting to hear the message that I have, and begin to understand the record, understand who I am, and you know. And I consider that to be a plus. Maybe they'll hear me and they won't like me. That's always a possibility. It hasn't been my experience that that's been the case. We're going to go to a convention, and they're going to -- the delegates are going to think about who can win in the fall. I'm the only one that, frankly, can win in the fall. And here in this state, whether it's in Michigan where I lead Hillary by 11 points, or in North Carolina where the Senator down there is only up three points at this point. What I will tell you I happen to believe that if Senator Cruz or Donald Trump are the nominee, I think not only will they not win, but I believe it puts at risk the United States Senate. And I think the Senators are beginning to look at this. Now, Senators by nature are always nervous. And now they're getting even more nervous. So I think when we get to a convention they're going to think about who can win in the fall. And I believe that the delegates will take very seriously who could be president of the United States.
I got to tell you, I was at a convention in 1976 when Ronald Reagan challenged Gerald Ford. I was a very young man, but I worked aggressive and was in charge of five states for Governor Reagan. The delegates really take this seriously. They begin to feel the weight on their -- on he or she's shoulder. They begin to realize that they're making a choice that can affect the United States of America and, frankly, the world. So when people talk about these -- the disruptions at conventions and people are going to walk out, I really don't believe that. Would some people walk out if they got mad? Of course. Some people walk out of everything. But i believe that the overwhelming majority of the delegates at a convention will take this responsibility very seriously. And I think that's where we're going. And I think it's going to be fantastic. Probably be less Kardashians, more who's going to be president. That's where I think this is all headed. Not that I have anything against the Kardashians, to let them know.
BOLDUAN: All right. Right there you're looking at Governor John Kasich in a fascinating moment, holding this press conference, really, with one topic on mind, Donald Trump. Laying out his reasons, listing out his reasons why he says he is not qualified, he should not be president, that he is not prepared to be president, especially after the 24-48 hours we've been discussing.
Let's discuss with this our panel. Let me bring in CNN political commentators, Ana Navarro and Bob Beckel; and senior advisor for the Donald Trump campaign, Barry Bennett.
This was not a long-planned press conference, Barry. This came up, and he listed out. He not only was speaking to media, but he also spoke directly to Trump voters, saying I understand your frustration. It doesn't fall on deaf ears. Also saying while Donald Trump continues to move in an untethered fashion, I want to offer myself up as the candidate for you. What do you say?
BARRY BENNETT, SENIOR ADVISOR, DONALD TRUMP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE & FORMER BEN CARSON CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Well, I mean, he's entitled to his opinion. He's earned that. But the laws of mathematics and the rules of the Republican National Convention are not something you can just will away. I mean Rule 40 is something Ted Cruz says he doesn't want changed and Donald Trump doesn't want changed is going to be in effect --
BOLDUAN: That's not necessarily --
BENNETT: I don't know --
BOLDUAN: -- a done deal yet.
BENNETT: -- the delegates. If the two of them don't want it changed, it's not going to change. BOLDUAN: But what do you think act this moment? Kasich up there
listing out exactly what we've been talking about all day, why Donald Trump cannot be, is not prepared to be the commander-in-chief on the president on abortion, nuclear weapons, on NATO. And that was just some of them.
BOLDUAN: Is Donald Trump too far out in front of his skis on this today?
BENNETT: No. Let me tell you about the issues the people are voting about, and they're not because their son lives in the basement or whatever language he's using. It's about securing the border, not just for immigration but also stopping the flow of heroin. Kasich's state has been awash in heroin. I know. My sister died as an addict. The issues of national debt, $19 trillion of debt. I have two young kids. They're going to be forced to pay this back. That makes me angry. Those are the issues people are voting about, not Geneva Conventions language or rather not Japan should have a nuclear bomb. I mean, that's great talking points for him, but he's not connecting with anybody with those kind of points.
[11:50:17] BOLDUAN: Bob, what do you think?
BOB BECKEL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, listen, this comes down to a very simple formula. The Wisconsin has become the biggest primary of the season. The reason for that is if Trump wins, there's a likelihood he could put together enough delegates to win the nomination. If he loses, there's going to be a brokered convention, and I don't think he wins that. Let's remember something about rules, having done these a few times. Rules can change. You can control a rules committee and the Republicans have something like I think 200 of them. I suspect we'll see some rules changing between now and then.
BOLDUAN: Ana, what do you think? Heard from John Kasich, it mirrors the statement that John Kasich just put out. John Kasich clearly sees an opportunity to capitalize on this moment. Did Donald Trump just hand this to him?
ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. I think you put the nail on the head. It was an impromptu press conference to remind us that John Kasich is out there. We heard him be all over the place, which is wonderfully authentic and what a lot of people find appealing. He talked about eating pizza with a fork, he talked about flying through midtown, he talked about all kinds of things that weren't one cohesive message. But what he was trying to say is I am here, do not forget about me, I am a viable option. If we go to a brokered convention, all bets are off. Yes, there are rules that might apply in the first ballot. But if nobody gets to 1237 in that first ballot, basically all rules fly out the window. And the rules committee reconstitutes itself and comes up with new rules and it's going to be a free for all. And it's going to be open season for the delegates who will then be unbound. And John Kasich probably stands as good a chance as anybody. He likes to say, look, it couldn't be happening in a better place. If there's a brokered convention, it's going to happen in Cleveland. I'll have my home-town crowd there. So under his logic, we might end up with Lebron James as the Republican nominee.
BOLDUAN: Well, there we go.
I did talk to one of these delegates, a member of the rules committee, and he said he personally would like to see the rules change. He says he would like to see all of the delegates and all the candidates counted. That just goes to show. But this is not a done deal yet in terms of how the convention rules are going to be played.
I want to get your take, Bob, on one of the things John Kasich brought up. It's raising eyebrows, something Donald Trump has said in the past day, one of the other headlines raising eyebrows, is on his choice for Supreme Court nominee. He said he would likely nominate a justice who would look very seriously at the Hillary Clinton e-mail disaster. Your take on that?
BECKEL: I think Donald Trump should go back to civics classes, because last I heard, the Supreme Court doesn't investigate, they adjudicate.
Here's the problem, every time Donald Trump says something, it's like he almost can't help himself, but he says something that causes controversy. Now at first, it was a good thing because he dominated the press. Now, I think it's catching up with him. Both him and Hillary, by the way. Their negatives are catching up with them. And it's going to be a difficult night for him in Wisconsin. Although, if Kasich does well -- and he's had the best week of anyone --he is going to take votes away from Cruz, which helps Donald Trump.
BOLDUAN: Barry, did he misspeak again?
BENNETT: I think he was talking about the attorney general, not the justice of the Supreme Court.
Going back to what Bob said about Wisconsin, Bob, all projections are --
BOLDUAN: You really do think he was talking about the I.G.?
BENNETT: A.G. A.G.
BOLDUAN: A.G. He was asked about the Supreme Court, though, nominating a justice.
BENNETT: I do. I do think he was talking about the attorney general.
BOLDUAN: Again, add this to the misspoke column.
BOLDUAN: Go on. BENNETT: Bob, going back to Wisconsin, internal projections have us getting at over 1400 delegates. That includes zero delegates from Wisconsin. While Wisconsin is certainly a must-win for Ted Cruz, I mean if he doesn't win Wisconsin, he's already mathematically prohibited from being the nomination. So Wisconsin would virtually be prohibitive. It doesn't necessarily affect our numbers at all.
BOLDUAN: Final thoughts, Bob.
NAVARRO: Kate, Kate, can I get in on this?
You know, we keep talking --
BOLDUAN: Give me a quick one.
BOLDUAN: We keep talking about Donald Trump misspoke column. There is no misspoke column. He never admits that he mistakes, mishears, or thanks God for forgiveness. He tells you the air piece didn't work, that what you heard him say is not what he actually said. He's not one who admits mistakes. He clarifies, which is what we saw him do last night. He doesn't say I misspoke, I misheard, I'm human. That's the only thing that hasn't come out of his mouth.
[11:55:24] BOLDUAN: I'll say the only people who will have a say on that is voters. That is in Wisconsin. If they hear about something that Donald Trump misspeaks or mishears, we'll see.
Guys, this conversation will continue, and it will. But for now, thank you very much.
We'll be right back.
BOLDUAN: The two Democratic presidential candidates are doing battle for the next big prize, Wisconsin. Polls show this contest could go either way. It has Bernie Sanders up four right now. Hillary Clinton saying he's making promises he just can't keep.
I want to bring in the former lieutenant governor of Wisconsin, Barbara Lawton. She has endorsed obviously Bernie Sanders this time around.
Lieutenant Governor, thank you very much for your time.
Let's just get to it. In 2008 --
BARBARA LAWTON, (D), FORMER WISCONSIN LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: Thanks for having me.
BOLDUAN: -- you endorsed Hillary Clinton. You helped organize and campaigned for her in Wisconsin. Why is I different there time? LAWTON: It's different this time. I traveled with her. I was
excited about her campaign. That was right before the bottom of the economy fell out. And now after the recovery, supposedly that has gone to very few people, we're at a time where the middle class is being hollowed out in our country, and even more in our state than in any other state and there's an instability to our democracy that needs a great focus and attention and Bernie Sanders is the leader that understands, it's his bold experience and his willingness to take the biggest threat to our democracy, which is money in politics that takes that head on that brings me to his campaign.
BOLDUAN: You call it vision. Hillary Clinton calls it pie in the sky stuff. Basically he's saying anything he can just to win over people's votes. Is he at all pie in the sky?
LAWTON: No, he's not at all pie in the sky, and in fact, when she talks about what is realistic, actually equates to incremental politics, and it's incremental politics that has brought us to this moment, and locked into the wage inequality that's creating such instability. When Bernie Sanders says I want to bring about universal health care, and single payer health care, that's not pie in the sky. People here in Washington say I would love to be rid of the extensive paper work and hassle for my employees and ensure their good health and get about the business of creating jobs. It's not rocket science and the constituency is there at the moment. He brought them out and it continues to grow.
[11:54:51] BOLDUAN: He's up four points in Wisconsin. You know those voters well. We will see how it all pans out in less than one week away.
Thank you very much. I appreciate your time.
LAWTON: My pleasure.
BOLDUAN: Of course.
Thank you all very much for joining me AT THIS HOUR. A very busy day.
It will continue with the "Legal View" with Ashleigh Banfield right now.