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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Kasich: "I'm Undecided" on Endorsing Trump; Kasich: Third Party Run Is Not Appropriate; Blasts N.Y. Times Report On His Treatment Of Women; CNN Special Report: Biker Brawl; "Biker Brawl: Inside The Texas Shootout. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired May 16, 2016 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Thank you so much for joining us. AC 360 starts right now.
ANDERSON COOPER, AC 360 HOST: Good evening. Thanks for joining us. Tonight, breaking news and a 360 exclusive, the first interview with Donald Trump's last rival.
For one brief moment, Ohio Governor John Kasich was the last man standing between Donald Trump and the Republican presidential nomination. Trump had just won the Indiana primary. Ted Cruz had just left the race.
Governor Kasich woke up the next morning having just gotten what he said he wanted, a chance to go one-on-one with Trump and prevail somehow at the convention in Cleveland. Instead, that same day, Governor Kasich decided to end his run.
He's yet to explain that in an interview, because as I mentioned, he hasn't given one since then. Then there's speculation about him being drafted to run as an Independent, his being named -- his name being floated as a vice presidential pick and whether or not he'll throw his support behind Donald Trump.
I talked about all of that with Governor Kasich and more this morning at the Governor's mansion in Columbus.
Your name has come up in the news a lot the last couple of days, and I want to ask you about it. There's a story in "The Washington Post" this weekend. It's got a lot of pick up that a number of Republicans, conservatives, Mitt Romney among them, has been looking at the possibility of a third-party candidate or an Independent candidate or conservative candidate. Your name's mentioned. Has Mitt Romney reached out to you? Have you had conversations?
GOV. JOHN KASICH (R), OHIO: Well, I don't -- I don't want to get into who. I've had a phone call with somebody that wanted me to run and consider running as a third-party candidate.
COOPER: Are you considering running?
KASICH: No, I'm not going to do that.
KASICH: Well, I think that I gave it my best where I am. And I just think running third party doesn't feel right. I think it's not constructive.
And, you know, one of the things that's interesting is it's really hard to be thoughtful when you're dealing with the media, because many of them think that everything is sort of a political ploy or a political play.
It's been a little bit of a disappointment for me. In fact, I've talked to somebody in the media to say, you know, you have a responsibility.
You know, it's really been interesting. You can have depth to something, and people think, well, that's just politics.
No, when I talk about two paths, you know, the path of rebuilding the country or pushing people down into the ditch, that's not some political ploy that somebody calculated for me. That's my -- that's my insides. That's my soul.
And so, you know, a third-party candidacy would be viewed as kind of a silly thing, and I don't think it's appropriate. I mean, I -- you know, I just don't think it would be the right thing to do.
COOPER: Would -- it's not right for you. Would you like to see somebody else run at this point?
KASICH: You know, that -- I hadn't even thought about that. I think that a third-party candidacy to achieve what? To win? Or to just go in and disrupt? I mean --
COOPER: To stop Donald Trump.
KASICH: The only reason to do anything like that would be if you had a message that you felt so compelled to deliver that it would give you an opportunity to do that. But I don't see who's out there with that kind of a message and would it work. I mean --
COOPER: So -- I mean does -- Reince Priebus has called the idea, I think, a suicide mission for whoever who does it in terms of hurting their career, hurting their future political career.
You don't want to see a third person -- somebody coming into the race to run, essentially to stop Donald Trump. You don't think that's necessary?
KASICH: No, I mean, I haven't even thought about it. The answer would be no. I just think we now are going to have the two standard bearers.
Look, I remember when Perot ran. He had a very important message he wanted to deliver on the economy and on the budget. You know, I mean, that was -- guy -- you never questioned what Ross Perot was doing. I think a third-party insurgency -- we had -- Teddy Roosevelt did it,
right? I don't know if he did it because he was concerned or because he was angry, that, you know, he'd been left out.
But I just think we're not a third-party kind of a country, and, you know, just to run a campaign to block somebody, to me -- see, because at the same time, I wanted to win and I wanted to get to open convention. My basic deal was not to stop somebody else. It was to be about the ideas I had.
So I'm not kind of an again'er. You know, I'm against somebody. Although, you know, if things get really in bad situation, I could be, but I'm not there yet.
COOPER: The sentence you started and didn't finish is the idea of running to just block somebody. What? That's not something you feel is right or appropriate?
KASICH: Not for me.
COOPER: Not for you?
KASICH: Not for me.
COOPER: Has there been any moment where you thought maybe I dropped out too soon, maybe I should have stuck with it? I mean --
KASICH: Well, you know, the interesting part about that is when Indiana happened and you had the chairman of the Republican Party endorse Trump, which I thought was completely inappropriate, my --
COOPER: Inappropriate because?
KASICH: Well, I'm still there. What -- you know, he just wanted to get this thing over. I'm not happy about it.
But anyway, neither here nor there. We learn to forgive and forget.
But we were going to stay in it for four or five days to see if people would really come with the biggest money, because we were never able to get big, big money in the campaign. We were outspent 50 to 1, yet I'm like the last guy standing, right, against Trump.
But they did not want me to say that, my team, unanimously. Because if you say we're going to see how it works, then the media puts, you know, a death watch on you until you're dead.
And so,I was going to go to Washington and do a lot of press, "USA Today" editorial board. I had two fund-raisers. And I was thinking, well, how do I reconcile the fact that I'm going to tell people that I'm going to run as hard as I can to the convention, knowing that in 48 or, you know, 72 hours or whatever that I might drop out.
And we were actually sitting on the plane, and I was really, really conflicted. Not -- I was more -- not as conflicted as one might think. I said, we're getting out of this plane. And then I called the closest staff together. I said it's time to go.
Because I would have been disingenuous to have an interview with you saying we're going all the way, knowing in the back of my mind, we might be gone in 72 hours or -- because I don't know if the money was -- we were actually, financially, we were doing fine. We were going to raise a good chunk of money, but not enough to have made the kind of difference that I felt we needed to make.
And here's what I was really worried about. The message of unity, the message of healing. What I took to the campaign and stayed with consistently. I did not want that message to be belittled. It is so important for our country that that message is alive.
And I didn't want to lose that. I didn't want people to forget, say, well, you know, he's going to get beaten in Nebraska or New Jersey and, you know, what's he doing? And so I sort of felt preserving the message was really more important than anything else.
COOPER: In terms of what happens now, would you -- I mean, I guess the obvious question is --
KASICH: What do I do now?
COOPER: Well, one obvious question is, will you endorse Donald Trump?
KASICH: I don't know unless I -- I told you about these two paths. You know, if I -- if I feel -- you know, I read some stuff recently -- well, I'm not, you know, glued to this. I've read some other stuff that, to me, is too negative.
KASICH: So I'm undecided.
COOPER: Do you want to -- what sort of stuff?
KASICH: Well, I don't think I need to get into the specifics but, you know, people that are, you know, attacking. I don't like when he's attacking, putting people down, or, you know, learn to take it a little bit.
You know, the idea -- you know, at least initially of, you know, well, maybe Paul Ryan shouldn't be at the convention. I mean, come on, man, you won. You know, be magnanimous in victory.
So, Anderson, what I'm saying is I'm for -- I'm for uniting, and I have to see him move to uniting. If he doesn't, I'm undecided here at this point. So we'll see -- we'll see what happens.
COOPER: So just for the record, you're undecided about whether or not you would endorse Donald Trump?
KASICH: Yes, I am. Right. I'm undecided.
COOPER: Are you undecided about whether you'd actually vote for him?
KASICH: You know -- you know, at the end of the day, endorsing is going to mean a lot. And frankly, my wife and my daughters have watched this, and if I were to turn around today and endorse him, they'd be like, "Why, dad?" And that matters to me.
We'll see what he does. He has a chance to move to the positive side and unify this country.
COOPER: Is it a question of tone or policies?
KASICH: I think it's both. I think it's both. And, you know, have some consistent policy and be positive.
If you don't -- look, Anderson, we know that -- the Beatles were right. Money can't buy you love. But we know -- we guaranteed know that the foundation of this country needs to be a strong economy. That gives people hope.
But the spirit of our country doesn't rest in dollars and cents. It rests inside of us. And if we are saying that the reason you're doing poorly is because somebody from Mexico is taking your money or somebody from China is taking your money, you know, that's not a standing against the wind. That's -- in some sense, that's scapegoating.
I don't like scapegoating. OK? We have problems. Have the -- have the elites let us down? Are you kidding me? Of course, the politicians have been terrible, terrible.
OK. So what are we going to do? Just sit around being in a bad mood? Or can we say, OK, what am I going to do for my community? What am I doing for my family? What am I doing for the struggle that I have to bring about a positive? That's what matters to me for our country, because our country is so divided.
I had a delightful conversation with Paul Ryan over the weekend. I intend to go out and campaign for House and Senate members. I left a message for the head of the Senate campaign committee. If they want me, I will go and help them. Paul Ryan was delighted to hear it.
And Paul and I -- you know, one of the things that a friend of mine in New York said is, could you imagine if you were president and Paul Ryan were speaker, could have changed everything. Just like we came in in 2010 and '11 and changed Ohio dramatically. I had a partner there, and that's a little frustrating.
But I told Paul, I said, Paul, I'll do whatever you want, whatever you need. If I can appear for people, I'll be for it. If I have to -- if I come out against them, it'll help them, I'll do that. Whatever makes sense.
COOPER: Do you think Donald -- I mean you talked about sort of, you know, his reaction -- both his tone and also his policies. Do you think at this point he's convinced you he has the temperament, the ability to be president, the qualification?
KASICH: I'm going to give him more time. I mean not that I'm -- you know, so I'm just John Kasich. But I have a right to take a position, and I will have a position and opinion.
I made it clear that I need to see a positive approach. And, you know, if there's not one forthcoming, you know, it's going to be a real problem.
COOPER: Do you think he's capable of that? I mean, you stood on that stage with him.
KASICH: I don't know. I don't know. I don't know him really that well. I mean I stood on stage with him. I didn't spend time with him.
You know, there's a sense in the media that we're all kind of hanging out and calling one another. You know, that's a fantasy.
The closest we all were was when we were in the elevator in Cleveland, all of us in one elevator. And I looked around. I thought, boy, if this elevator just crashed, that would be interesting. The people would probably cheer, "Yes!"
COOPER: Was it one of those awkward silent elevator rides or --
KASICH: You know, that was the other thing. Some of these candidates would just viciously attack one another, and then we'd be back stage, and it'd be like, "How's it going?"
You know, I -- it's like it was -- it was like a game. It wasn't a game to me -- at any time was running for president a game.
COOPER: Obviously, your name has also been talked about as vice presidential candidate, a vice presidential pick. Ben Carson has given a number of names that Donald Trump's --
KASICH: Is Ben picking vice presidents?
COOPER: Well, he's talking about who Donald Trump apparently is looking at.
KASICH: Well, remember the last time a guy thought that, you know, maybe Ben will be picked. Right? You never know.
COOPER: All joking aside, Governor Kasich did have a serious answer to the question of whether he would accept an offer to be Donald Trump's running mate. That is next.
Also, the fallout from the detailed and sometime less than flattering look at how Donald Trump has allegedly treated women over the years in and out of the workplace. It's a profile that he is calling a fraud and phoning into one of the control rooms to complain about. He's just been tweeting even more about it as well. So are his complaints justified? Well, stay tuned for that. And later, nine people killed, hundreds of weapons recovered. You
remember this? After two motorcycle clubs went to war with each other and the police. Happened a year ago. Well, tonight, you'll see what it looked like in the crossfire in a way you never have. And why a year later not one single person is in jail.
COOPER: Welcome back to breaking news and a CNN exclusive tonight. Governor -- Ohio governor John Kasich speaking out the first time since ending his presidential campaign. He outlasted 15 other rivals, including some of the biggest names in GOP politics.
He told me he's not interested in running a third-party campaign in November. Before the break, he joked about the vice presidential selection process now under way in the Trump campaign. In this part of our conversation, I asked him directly what he would do if he got the offer.
COOPER: Is that something you would consider? I mean, during the campaign, you said, absolutely not. No way.
KASICH: No, I've not changed my mind on that. Look, I have said all along, I have the second best job in America.
COOPER: So if Donald Trump called you today and said, "Look, you've got to do this. You've got to do this for the country" --
KASICH: No, I'm not inclined to do that, I'm not, no. And I'm really actually excited about getting back here with my team for the state of Ohio. And I gave it my best.
COOPER: Because Trump has said he wants somebody with, you know, experience on the Hill.
KASICH: Well, look, here's the situation. You know, we've had two different messages. His message was, you know, the elites are bad, and everybody is giving you the shaft and kind of gotten people angry.
My message is yes, a lot of these elites, whether it's the politicians, whether it's big business, whether it's athletes, whether it's the media, whether it's entertainment, they've all disappointed us in one way or another, and many people have gotten the shaft.
But my message is, let's stand against the wind. Don't cave in to the negative. Let's figure out how, as people, we can rebuild our country.
Those are two very inconsistent messages. So it would be very hard for me, unless he were to change all of his views and become a uniter, for me to get in the middle of this thing, because, you know, I'm undecided here about what I'm going to do in this race.
COOPER: You know this state incredibly well, obviously. I think there was a recent Quinnipiac poll of Donald Trump versus Hillary Clinton in battleground states. It showed essentially them even, I mean, within the margin of error.
KASICH: Oh, I mean, look, these polls come and go. I mean --
COOPER: Do you think this --
KASICH: -- and I don't know who they're polling. I don't know if they're polling likely voters, all voters. I don't know.
COOPER: Do you think Ohio is a Hillary Clinton state or a Donald Trump state?
KASICH: Well, I think that if you're not a unifier, you have a big problem. If you're going to double down on negative, it isn't going to work.
COOPER: Doesn't work in Ohio?
KASICH: I don't believe it does. No, you cannot be -- you cannot come into here with glass half empty and polarize people and think you're going to win Ohio.
COOPER: The conventional wisdom, which is both conventional -- I'm not sure how much wisdom it is -- and it's usually proved wrong.
KASICH: Yes, nothing's been right.
COOPER: Yes, it proved wrong.
COOPER: So I hate to even use that term. But a lot of people are looking at this race that's coming and thinking this is going to be unlike anything we've seen. It's going to be just scorched earth. It's going to be brutal.
KASICH: Oh, they're -- both of them are going to use negative tactics. There's no question about it. Try to beat the other one down. And, you know, that's just -- adds to cynicism about politicians.
I just -- I've always believed that in politics your strength is your -- are your ideas. It's not like beating somebody else down.
People say, well, why didn't you go negative? Why didn't you get into it with Trump? Why didn't you -- at one point I did when he kept talking about deporting 11.5 million, and Ben Carson basically said he wanted to abolish Medicare. At that point, I'd had enough.
But if your thrust is going to be negative, then go get another job, because, to me, you get people passionate about ideas.
COOPER: Well, you -- as we talked about, you were on that debate stage an awful lot. When Donald Trump now says, well --
KASICH: Every one. They never thought I'd make the first one.
COOPER: Donald Trump is now saying the temporary ban on Muslims was just a suggestion. Does that surprise you? Because when he said it -- when his campaign announced it, it didn't sound like a suggestion.
KASICH: Look, if you want to be a great leader, you have to have consistency. Now, that doesn't mean that you have to be consistent on everything. You have a right to change your position or your mind. But you'd better be careful about what you say, because you are, like, running for President of the United States.
COOPER: Final question, you said you don't think Trump can win Ohio if the message stays the way it has been, the tone stays as it has been. Do you think he can win the presidency if the message doesn't change?
KASICH: I think it's very, very difficult if you are a divider.
Now, we have to see how Mrs. Clinton performs. She is going to be the nominee, and we're going to have to see what she does.
I mean, if she's going to move far to the left, it is -- you know, then it's an open race. If she -- if she does not -- if she doesn't have a unifying message, then, you know, it's like a throw it up. I mean, who wins?
But the demographics are a real problem for Republicans if they spend their time bashing Hispanics, turning off African-Americans, and not getting young people excited. I mean how do you win?
COOPER: Governor Kasich, thank you very much.
KASICH: Yes, enjoyed it.
COOPER: So no to the vice presidency. No to a third-party run. No to a Trump endorsement, at least for now. The question will any of it hurt Donald Trump, and is Ohio a must-win this fall? The panel reacts, next.
Also, you've seen "Saturday Night Live's" Donald Trump. How about Hillary Clinton?
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm going to create them. They're going to be great. I know how to do it. But I'm not telling you what it is I'm going to do.
COOPER: Well, you just heard Ohio governor John Kasich tonight covering a lot of ground. His first interview since leaving the race. He ruled out a third-party run. Said no to sharing the ticket with Donald Trump and held off on endorsing him.
He made a lot of news today. So did Donald Trump. I want to bring in the panel. "New York Times" national political
reporter, Alex Burns; long-time "Washington Post" reporter, Carl Bernstein. He's done a thing or two since then, including writing the best-selling biography, "A Woman in Charge: The Life of Hillary Rodham Clinton."
CNN chief political analyst, Gloria Borger is with us. So is Trump supporter, Kayleigh McEnany; conservative Trump opponent Tara Settmayer; and on the left, "Atlantic" media contributor and journalism professor, Peter Beinart.
Alex, let's start with you. What do you make of Kasich not endorsing Trump? I mean he didn't exactly -- he said he didn't really know him well. Is he just buying time here to (inaudible)?
ALEX BURNS, NEW YORK TIMES NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: I think a lot of people in the party are giving Trump not quite benefit of the doubt, but enough time to see whether he can change.
But, you know, Anderson, I think the bigger dead out of the interview was not just the refusal to endorse up front but the way he spoke about what it would take for him to eventually issue an endorsement. He essentially said Donald Trump would just need a full-scale personality and policy transplant in order to get him there, which I guess is not entirely out of the question.
But this is the governor of the most important swing state where Donald Trump appears to have an even shot at winning giving him a very, very cold shoulder.
Gloria, did you take that away as well?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: I did. I mean if you look at every issue, it is kind of like Paul Ryan -- I know he mentioned having a nice conversation with Paul Ryan, too, but on issues like trade, on immigration, on the temporary ban on Muslims, you know, he disagrees with Donald Trump.
And what you see there is somebody who's a party person kind of struggling for a way to get to yes, but he also talked to you about having to answer to his family, who lived through the campaign with him. And you can tell that at the very least he's unenthusiastic about it. If he ever gets there, I have no idea.
COOPER: Unenthusiastic about that, and yet called up Speaker Ryan, saying he's willing to go out campaigning for candidates.
Kayleigh, as a Trump supporter, I mean, he says point blank he's not interested in the vice presidential slot. His name has been bandied about. Ben Carson has even said he is on the list.
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And if he doesn't want the VP slot, then, you know, his name shouldn't be in the running. But, you know, I don't see it as quite as much of a negative as some of the others do, because here's the thing. He said I was running to block someone. I was running to promote my ideas. And it's completely understandable that someone who ran in one of the
toughest primaries I think we've -- I think we've seen in modern history -- a lot of bickering, a lot of negatively -- is stepping back and saying, I'm not ready to do this just yet. If he changes, if things coalesce, then maybe I'll jump on board.
And I think we're slowing day-by-day seeing more senators jump on Trump's band wagon, more congress --
COOPER: You think it's only a matter of time --
MCENANY: I do.
COOPER: -- that this kind of Never Trump or gosh, I don't really like Trump, that it's all going to evolve to the way things naturally evolve.
MCENANY: I think it's a matter of time, and I think this is the single most important endorsement that Donald Trump needs to get. He must win Ohio. That is one of the four states that must change.
This is more important to me than Paul Ryan's endorsement even. I think it is crucial that John Kasich endorse Trump.
COOPER: When you hear Kasich, though, saying that being negative in Ohio doesn't work, do you think that's true?
MCENANY: I understand that. I think what he's meaning is he doesn't want to see, you know, the Little Marco exchanges and some of the names that we saw in the primary. He wants to see not necessarily not going negative at all.
I think he would be fine with going after the Clinton Foundation or some of these scandals. But I think he wants to see, I guess, the level of rhetoric change to something more suited for a general election.
COOPER: Tara, the governor also told me today he's not interested in being a third-party candidate. Reince Priebus, I think, had come forward and said whoever decides to do that, it would be a suicide mission.
TARA SETMAYER, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I mean I know that the third-party candidacy idea is something that lot of folks are flirting with, and it's still out there. But, you know, it's still a fantasy until you have someone that's actually willing to do it.
SETMAYER: So I think that that the logistical problems with trying to put someone on the ballot is -- I think those hurdles may be too difficult to overcome. I think this effort is a little late at this point.
I understand why. I mean I'm one of those folks that's in the position where I'm not voting for either one of them. So is it a conscious vote? Maybe. Possibly.
But something -- just coming back to the -- what John Kasich said in his interview that I found interesting. I don't know that he will necessarily come around, given he has fundamental issues with Donald Trump, not only on policy but on a character issue.
Something that struck me, you know, Gloria and I both kind of said, "huh" at the same time was when he said, "My wife and daughters are watching." That matters, because he sees the way Donald Trump behaves, and looks, as a dad, outside of just being a politician.
He looks as a -- as a dad, as a person raising daughters. How do I explain support for someone who behaves this way?
[20:30:02] And I think that's a -- that's a conundrum for a lot of people who have an issue with the character, integrity and principals part of it.
COOPER: It's interesting Peter, just talking to the governor, he does seems like a guy when you talk to him, that it is not just politics, that it is personal, and that he is sort of struggling with a lot of these issues.
PETER BEINART, CONTRIBUTOR, THE ATLANTIC: Right, I think the important point about how everything a politician does is seen as political, and the media some of us don't give people credit enough that actually their speaking from their gut. And I think that underlying a lot of these questions about people not wanting to support Donald Trump, whether be Paul Ryan or now to John Kasich is -- they don't think he's a good man.
They really don't. It is not simply that they disagree with some of his policy, don't they think he is prepared to be president, they are revolted by the kind of human being that he has shown himself to be in the campaign. And I thought it was particularly telling that John Kasich would refer to his, you know, wife and daughter on the day when we have been talking about the way Donald Trump treats women, because I think he was playing into that very narrative. It's not the kind of thing you want to hear if you're the Trump campaign.
MCENANY: But that could be interpreted entirely a different way, because when I heard him say, that I didn't hear him say I think he is a revolting human being with my wife and daughter, I think rather I heard him say basically, how could I change -- I criticized this person, how could I change overnight in a matter 72 hours, you know, two weeks, however long it has been, to all the sudden full throttle endorsing or supporting someone. I thought ...
SETMAYER: His wife and daughter had conversations with him, about some of the -- Donald Trump obnoxious behavior and his commentary and, you know, like the ad that came out not too long ago with his actual words about women, you don't think that his daughter and his wife had those conversations? Of course they have.
MCENANY: I don't think any of us can speculate us to the private conversations.
COOPER: I want to bring in Carl over here, it sort of -- it's interesting though Carl -- I mean if Mitt Romney is supposedly calling around people, looking for third party candidate, and, you know, to Reince Priebus' point, whoever runs, it is sort of a suicide mission, it's not something that is really going to be a viable candidacy.
Why doesn't Mitt Romney himself do that, he doesn't have a political career in the future, I mean he doesn't, you know, he's got money. Why not -- if he believes so firmly in this, why wouldn't he be the one to step up?
CARL BERNSTEIN, "WASHINGTON POST": He's a mercurial man and you have to ask him that question, I don't know the answer to that. What is clear is -- there's not any chance of success ...
BERNSTEIN: ... in a third party candidacy. But I heard an out that Kasich left here, he said absolutely not to the vice presidency at the beginning of your interview, and then left a little wiggle room for the transplant, for the head transplant that you're talking about. And people close to Kasich that I talk to expect that he might take the vice presidency if something akin to that transplant took place.
Go back to 1980 to Reagan-Bush, this fierce, fierce campaign that the two of them had. Bush despised Reagan and vice versa, thought he was a lightweight, Bush did, that he was almost nuts, and sure enough Bush took the vice presidency. Now that would imply for that to happen, there has to be this turnaround that we are talking. And it is very unlikely from what we have seen that Trump has the restraint to turn around.
COOPER: But Governor Kasich has a political future ahead of him ...
BERNSTEIN: But he wants to be president.
COOPER: ... he's out of office in two years.
BURNS: Well, in a lot of ways, you know, I mean in fairness to Peter's point or the governor's point, you don't want to assume that everything they do is cynical and political, but if there's a path forward for Governor Kasich to run for president again, it probably counts on Trump losing and losing badly and then the party looking back at the fill of candidates they have this time and thinking, gosh we had the opportunity to nominate someone who was the polar opposite of the guy who just lost terribly, and that was John Kasich.
BERNSTEIN: The real front seat on that.
COOPER: Just one more Governor Kasich says he plans to write a book about the campaign, and what he hopes to see for the future of the country, he's going to work on that now. A lot more to talk about ahead for us including what Peter Beinart alluded to, Donald Trump calling a "New York Times" article about his treatment of women of quote, "Hit piece. The paper it says they talked with dozens of women in Trump's life all reporting the story or what have been in Trump's life. One of the women they interviewed says, the reporter twisted her comments. What the reporter said and how Trump is now hitting back, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[20:38:13] COOPER: Well Donald Trump called Hillary Clinton an enabler of her husband's behavior toward women, he opened the door for reporters who scrutinized his own treatment of women over the weekend. The "New York Times" storm through that door with a front page story based to paper says, "On dozens of interviews and women in Donald Trump's life.
Now it doesn't paint a flattering picture, now Mr. Trump is hitting back hard, so as one of the women who is interviewed. CNN's Sara Murray has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Donald Trump is going to war with the media yet again. This time taking aim at the "New York Times" for a front page story highlighting tales of Trump appearing to objectified women and make unwelcome advances. Today, one woman feature in the piece who once dated Trump says her story was misrepresented.
ROWANNE BREWER LANE, FMR COMPANION OF DONALD TRUMP: I made it very clear many times that I had a very pleasant relationship with Donald and that I never felt like I was being, you know, depicted as, you know, a piece of meat or anything like that, I was never offended by anything that he had said.
MURRAY: Prompting Trump to call the story a hit piece on Twitter, adding we have exposed the article as a fraud. The story reveals instances of Trump critiquing women's figures, giving a pageant contestant an unwanted kiss on the lips, and promoting women to high profile corporate positions, even as he made off hand comments that some viewed as demeaning and dismissive. The reporters who interviewed dozens of women about their interactions with Trump are standing by their piece.
MICHAEL BARBARO, NEW YORK TIMES REPORTER: There's no single dimension to Donald Trump and women, and I think our story makes that clear, I think it makes it clear through the voices of the people interviewed.
MURRAY: The transition to presumptive GOP nominee means even more media scrutiny for Trump. Last week it was the "Washington Post" story of on the billionaire businessman posing as his own spokesman, which provided even more fodder for "Saturday Night Live."
[20:40:01] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Trump is the real life inspiration for Ironman. Who am I? I'm his publicist, Joey Pepperoni.
MURRAY: This weekend, President Obama landed his own shots against the Republican, critiquing Trump's plan to bar Muslims from entering the U.S. calling him ignorant without calling him out by name.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: In politics and in life, ignorance is not a virtue. It's not cool to not know what you're talking about. That's not keeping it real or telling it like it is. That's not challenging political correctness. That's just not knowing what you're talking about.
MURRAY: All of this as some GOP leaders, including 2012 nominee Mitt Romney and weekly standard editor Bill Crystal are still trying to recruit a third party candidate to take on Trump. It's an effort the RNC chair denounced as a suicide mission.
REINCE PREIBUS, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Look, it is a suicide mission for our country because what it means is that you're throwing down not just eight years of the White House but potentially 100 years on the Supreme Court and wrecking this country for many generations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: And Sara, I understand Donald Trump actually called the CNN control room this morning to weigh in on the story?
MURRAY: Anderson, that is absolutely right. During CNN's New Day, Donald Trump called into the control room to alert CNN that Rowanne Brewer Lane who is the woman featured who disputed this "New York Times" story had been on another morning show to say she felt misrepresented. He wanted CNN to realize this was going on.
He did not apparently want to be on New Day have misspelled to dispute the story, but it is clear Anderson he wanted to get this counter narrative out there, and he has been tweeting up a storm all day saying the story is false, saying its malicious and of course slamming the "New York Times."
COOPER: All right, Sara Murray. Sara, thanks very much.
Back with the panel. Gloria, I mean in terms of this article, you know, obviously if you don't like Trump you're going to latch onto some details in the article, and if you do like Trump, people going to say it's a hit job and that he's promoted women, you know, through his corporation.
BORGER: Right. And I think quite frankly we can look back at this campaign and say that he has said many more controversial things publicly about women and the women are saying that he did in this "New York Times" piece, and, you know, not only about Hillary Clinton but about Carly Fiorina. And it goes on and on.
So I don't think this is piece as any kind of a game changer in any way. And so if you like Trump, you're going to say, OK this was the '80s and the '90s and a lot of women were treated this way, which by the way I can't attest to as somebody who worked during those years, and I get that, you know.
On the other hand, you read these things, and you say this is just -- this is just part and parcel of the way he treats women, if you don't like him. So does it change anyone's mind? I don't think so.
COOPER: Carl, do you think it has an impact?
BERNSTEIN: A little bit. But I think the real thing that has an impact is when you listen to the Howard Stern tapes. That they when you go to those tapes and you hear his actual voice and what he's saying, you hear some fundamental things about his views of women and they're pretty awful. At the same time, I know women who has worked in the Trump organization and say, oh he's a fine person and he doesn't abuse us, so I think as a time guy said in the clip that we run, yeah there are two sides in "New York Times" account, but Trump knows how to deal with the reality of what he said publicly, and at the same time the Clinton campaign has its own difficulties here that Trump is exploiting very effectively.
BERNSTEIN: So we'll see where this goes.
COOPER: Do you -- Tara, do you think this -- ask or Kayleigh, do you think this, this has an impact? Because I mean again, as Sara pointed out the woman at the center of this article or wonder one who is really highlighted, and a former girlfriend I guess to Donald Trump has come forward and said she was misrepresented.
MCENANY: Exactly. Not only that, but just a few moments ago on CNN, there was also another woman in the article, Trump's employment attorney who said she was unhappy with the piece and she knows several other woman who felt the same way. So you have several people coming forward and saying that this was not at all what they portrayed to "New York Times."
And not only that, the "New York Times" says they were trying to give both sides and yeah if you go look at the actual article, there are 12 highlights throughout the article, that they highlight specific things, all of which are negative towards Mr. Trump. That take this one woman Brewer Lane out of context. So as they trying to highlight both sides, perhaps their own highlights should highlight both.
COOPER: Well Tara, it is interesting that Donald Trump thought it was important enough to call into the control room.
BORGER: That John Miller is Trump.
SETMAYER: Listen, I still find that very strange. You're a presidential candidate. Why are you personally calling the control room of CNN? That's what your campaign people are for, that's why you have a press secretary. So this is like micro managing of things is a little strange to me I don't know how he plans on running government, you can't micromanage everything, you have the delegate to the best people allegedly.
[20:45:04] But anyway I think look, this obviously was an opportunity for him because with "New York Times", you know, it's not exactly his favorite publication, he calls it the failing the "New York Times." It's red meat to conservatives and Republicans, who already suspicious of the "New York Times" and they were reporting on things.
So he looked at this, said uh-huh see this is the "New York Times" trying to smear me once again, and, you know, I agree again with Gloria -- I don't know because this is going top move the needle, because you read it -- if your like Donald Trump you find the good things, and if you don't like Donald Trump, you've buy the negative things, but once -- one thing that stuck out to me in that article, with about the story -- the anecdote about Ivana Trump, and when they were out to dinner with his father with Fred Trump. And how she wasn't allowed to order her own food, that Fred Trump came in and basically said no, you're going to have steak. You know, she wanted fish. He said, no you're going to have steak.
And Donald Trump stood up for his father, not her in that exchange, which tells me a lot about how he was raised, how he views women and their role in the relationship. I found that to be ...
COOPER: Peter, was it a valid article?
BEINART: I think first of all actually the article, it was actually quite a bit of good stuff in ever for Donald Trump there, I mean I disagree. That's actually in some way allow you -- the negative stuff people kind of already assumed to be honest ...
BEINART: I mean after Megyn -- calling Megyn Kelly a bimbo, after talking about the way Carly Fiorina looked, I mean people, the expectations going into that article were pretty low. I think the stuff that people would not have known is actually the stuff that I think Trump probably wants to get out, which is that although he has treated women in a pretty awful way, he's also valued women who do a good job. He seems to have an idea that women were harder working than men.
COOPER: You know, promoting them at the time when it stag whether have Donald ...
BEINART: And I think given the fact that worst stuff has come out publicly as you were saying.
BEINART: And the fact that I think as you were saying, Tara, the fact that "New York Times" is going after him is probably applause among conservatives. I actually don't think the story is so bad for Donald Trump.
BORGER: You know, and it really in the story closely, it sort of seemed to me like it was in a time warp, you know, it took you back or took me back right, to the '80s and the '90s and the way women were treated in the workplace and things men said or did and not just Donald Trump but that's kind of the way it was.
On the other hand, you had Donald Trump promoting women to top positions maybe saying things like one good woman is worth, you know, 10 good men or whatever, but you'll read it and you thought well, he did promote these women.
COOPER: I want to thank everybody on the panel tonight.
Coming up, the biker brawl in Texas that left nine dead, 18 wounded. Who can forget this 177 arrest were made, that happened a year ago. Here's some the surveillance footage and in the top hour CNN investigates exactly what happened during the shootout and what's happened since, you might be surprise, we got a preview of the report, next.
[20:51:37] COOPER: In a few minutes, CNN airs a special report investigating one of the deadliest clashes in American outlaw biker history. Happened in Texas, and a year later, there are so questions about what started the arm melee between motorcycle clubs and shootout that left nine people dead, and dozens more wounded. Investigators seized more than 470 weapons, they arrested 177 bikers.
Ed Lavandera, host the CNN Special Report. I'll speak with him in a moment. But first here's a preview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The Bandidos and Cossacks. The FBI and police fear their increasingly violent feud is headed for all out war.
SGT. PATRICK SWANTON: It was our intelligence that told us they were headed this way, and were trying to get some payment whether it was against us or rival bike members, we don't know.
LAVANDERA: Dozens of police officers move quietly into place near the restaurant, Twin Peaks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Officers of one of the sheriff offices communicated to Twin Peaks that they were going to be having over 400 members at this meeting.
LAVANDERA: It's a meeting at the Confederation of Clubs where bikers gather to discuss and resolve issues. The Cossacks are the first to arrive. They wanted a truce, and believed it was an open meeting, says this Cossacks biker who asked us to mask his identity.
You guys were there to make peace?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were there to talk to them, say let's stop this, you know, every time we turn around, we go to a bar or a restaurant, or we got to a restaurant. Some of your guys are getting stupid and picking fights. Let's see if we can't find a common ground to where you all leave us alone and we leave you all alone.
LAVANDERA: Outside the restaurant, police dash cams capture the scene in the parking lot as a line of Bandidos bikers roll up.
JAKE CARRIZAL, WACO BIKER: I was the first one to pull in there.
LAVANDERA: Including Jake Carrizal who was riding in with his dad and uncle and looking for a place to park.
CARRIZAL: As we turned in the bike parking, I see 50, 60, 70 Cossacks there, you know, it caught me off guard. As soon as we pulled up, I back in and they were surrounding my bike.
LAVANDERA: As the shouting match quickly escalates, you see Carrizal with a yellow helmet right here in the middle of it. He says a Cossack threw the first punch.
CARRIZAL: We were hit so quick that I didn't even have time to take my gloves off nor my helmet.
LAVANDERA: Fists are flying, then far worse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard a gunshot. I just hit the dirt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then someone pulls a gun, pops off three rounds. Then someone else pulled one, then someone else pulled one. So they were coming from all different areas.
CARRIZAL: I remember yelling for my dad because I knew he was there somewhere. I've never been that scared in my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: Ed Lavandera joins us. Now the two man we saw in the clip are charged with engaging in organized criminal activity, same charges as over 150 other bikers. Why is that the case?
LAVANDERA: Well, this is the kind of controversial and fascinating part all of this. So it didn't matter if you were in the middle of the melee, pulled the gun, pulled the trigger, or if you are hiding out in the freezer of Twin Peaks, everyone has been hit with the exact same criminal charge, and now many people kind of there -- all of them are out of jail, out on bond and still trying to figure out, and make sense of it all.
So in many of them face up to life in prison if you're convicted on this felony charge. So that is the big controversy. Why was everyone hit with the exact same criminal charge, if not everyone acted the same in the middle of that fight.
[20:55:11] COOPER: And just in terms of the timetable, is it -- in any sense of when this actually may go to trial, if it is going to trial?
LAVANDERA: Well right, there hasn't been a single trial in Waco yet, it is not exactly clear when that's going to happen. Waco prosecutors say there's a gag order, and they're not talking because of that. There are some lawyers that we've spoken with Anderson who believed that none of these cases will ever go to trial, that there's a superseding federal investigation, and if that's will be really going to be the ultimate test here and the ultimate answer is to what will happen to all these guys.
COOPER: All right Ed Lavandera, we'll be watching. Thanks very much. We'll be right back.
COOPER: One note about my conversation with Governor Kasich this morning, his wife Karen was there as well, she agreed to talk. You can see that part of the interview on our website @ac360.com. We appreciate both her and the governor's time today.
[21:00:02] That does it for us. Thanks for watching. "BIKER BRAWL: INSIDE THE TEXAS SHOOTOUT" starts now.