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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Trump Taps Unproven Allegations to Attack the Clintons; Clinton Defends Cashing in on Speeches; Interview with Ben Carson; Report: Pilot Signed Log Stating No Technical Issues; Iraqi Forces Pound ISIS in Falluja. Aired 7-8p ET
Aired May 24, 2016 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, OUTFRONT HOST: OUTFRONT next, all-out war tonight. Donald Trump escalating the attacks against Hillary Clinton, dredging up Bill Clinton's sex scandal. Hillary Clinton firing back, slamming Trump over his money and his business deals.
And breaking news in the crash of EgyptAir Flight 804 tonight. We have new details about the pilot just moments before the plane took off. Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight, countdown to polls closing. Donald Trump hoping to get right to the finish line tonight as voters in Washington state are still casting ballots at this moment.
At stake for Trump, 44 delegates as he makes his way to that magic number of 1,237. This as Trump is getting ready to take the stage in New Mexico tonight where he's hosting a $10,000 a head fund-raiser. All eyes on whether he will up the ante after his harsh and deeply personal attacks against Bill Clinton, going after his infidelities.
Trump releasing a new video on social media attacking Bill Clinton for alleged sexual assaults on women. Even though the claims never resulted in criminal charges, Trump tells the "Washington Post" today that they are fair game. He said, and I quote him, "They said things about me that were very, very nasty. And you know, as long as they do that, you know, I will play at whatever level have I to play at. I think I've proven that."
Is it a winning strategy for Trump, though? That's the big question.
Jim Acosta begins our coverage OUTFRONT tonight. And Jim, this is as nasty as we have seen it and, as I said, deeply personal.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. That's right, Erin. It's gotten ugly early. Donald Trump is holding a rally here in Albuquerque, New Mexico within the next couple of hours. But he is really running two campaigns these day, one to organize and rally the GOP behind him, the other to tear down the Clintons early and often. But Donald Trump says, as you pointed out, it's all in the name of self-defense.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) ACOSTA (voice-over): Advisors to Donald Trump say why not. If the Clinton machine is attacking the presumptive GOP nominee on his past treatment of women, Trump is going to hit back hard. It's a line of attack that's been in the making for weeks.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I mean have you ever read what Hillary Clinton did to the women that Bill Clinton had affairs with? And they're going after me with women? Give me a break, folks.
ACOSTA: but in just the past week, Trump went further, drudging up old unproven allegations that former President Bill Clinton had once sexually assaulted a woman, claims Clinton's attorneys have vehemently denied.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deputy White House counsel Vincent Foster, Jr. committed suicide last month.
ACOSTA: And Trump has resurrected the story of Vincent Foster, a friend of the Clintons, who federal investigators concluded, committed suicide in the early '90s. But unfounded conspiracy theories that Foster was murdered have lingered.
Trump told the "Washington Post" in an interview on Monday, "It's the one thing with her, whether it's Whitewater or whether it's Vince Foster or whether it's Benghazi. It's always a mess with Hillary."
TRUMP: Does she have a good body? No. Does she have a fat ass? Absolutely.
ACOSTA: Trump's advisors say it's all payback for attacks like this pro-Clinton Super PAC ad going after the real estate tycoon's past dealings with women.
MICHAEL COHEN, SPECIAL COUNSEL TO DONALD TRUMP: What's he's doing is he's exposing not just Bill Clinton for what he was and what he had done, but it's the same as it relates to Hillary. She attacked Mr. Trump as being a sexist misogynist, and that's inaccurate. Donald Trump's not anything of those things.
ACOSTA: But Trump has defended the Clintons against the same character assaults in the past. Consider what he told Wolf Blitzer eight years ago.
TRUMP: Look at the trouble Bill Clinton got into with something that was totally unimportant, and they tried to impeach him, which was nonsense, and yet Bush got us into this horrible war with lies by lying, by saying they had weapons of mass destruction, by saying all sorts of things that turned out not to be true.
ACOSTA: The Clintons have been down this road before. The former president saw his approval numbers soar after the public determined his GOP adversaries overreached during the '90s. History, he says, is repeating himself.
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You think the stuff I said about her is bad? They accused me of murder. I mean our memories are short. It's what they do.
ACOSTA: But Hillary Clinton made it clear to CNN's Chris Cuomo she won't engage.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know that that's exactly what he is fishing for, and, you know, I'm not going to be responding.
ACOSTA: Now, as for that rally that Donald Trump is holding later here in Albuquerque in just a couple of hours, he will not have the top Republican in the state, Governor Susana Martinez, by his side. She told reporters here in New Mexico she is too busy to attend this rally. But Erin, keep in mind, she has in the past been very critical of Donald Trump's comments on Mexican immigrants.
And meanwhile, we should point out, another notable moment that we should take note of, Donald Trump is holding his first fund-raiser, which is taking place very shortly here in Albuquerque. That is a first in this campaign, something he's doing jointly with the RNC.
So he liked to say in the past that he was self-funding his campaign, but that is no more. But as for the rhetoric in this campaign, it's hard to imagine it getting any lower than this, Erin.
BURNETT: Hard to imagine, but I bet that it might. Thank you very much to you, Jim Acosta.
And OUTFRONT next -- OUTFRONT now, Republican strategist, Susan Del Percio; editor in chief of "Daily Beast," John Avlon; Trump supporter, Scottie Nell Hughes; president of the National Urban League, Marc Morial; Trump supporter, Kellyanne Conway; and political commentator, Marc Lamont Hill. Thanks to all on this election night.
John Avalon, today, Trump going deeply personal, and I mean deeply personal. We are drudging up things from the past, accusations of the past, many of which have been completely debunked. Is he going too far?
JOHN AVLON, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, THE DAILY BEAST: Yes, once you start going into past the self-inflicted sex scandals to the conspiracy theories, to that cottage industry of Clinton hatred that's been totally disproven, when you don't denounce but you encourage and you engage, that's when you jump the shark. That's when you're embracing conspiracy theories and you lose any right to say you're simply fighting back. You're pandering to the ugliest, the lowest common denominators, things that have been totally disproven, and it's despicable even for Donald Trump.
BURNETT: Despicable even for Donald Trump, Scottie? Because his supporters won't care, but it's the Independents, it's the people in the middle he needs to woo.
SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Yes, but he's also got to woo all of those folks that were a part of the Ted Cruz campaign, all those other conservatives that are still in this Never Trump movement. He's got to remind him -- remind these folks why he is a better choice than Hillary Clinton. And by sit hearing and going not after one but two, three, four, five, multiple conspiracies, it's not just like one little spark. There's a lot of flames around.
AVLON: But you don't know that -- look, stop. You just said multiple conspiracies. That concedes that it's a bunch of B.S.
HUGHES: No, but that doesn't mean that it's not. The conspiracy does not mean it's B.S.
AVLON: Yes, but the Republican Party can only be united by trolling conspiracy theories that have been --
HUGHES: Not at all.
AVLON: -- totally discredited.
HUGHES: Has he -- did you hear --
AVLON: That discredits your own party.
HUGHES: Did you actually hear him say I believe in this, I agree with his.
AVLON: You engage you something --
HUGHES: No, he did not.
HUGHES: It worked. He plants the seed of doubt, and then what we did -- and we have to realize --
AVLON: That is so deeply cynical.
HUGHES: No, it is not.
AVLON: Yes, you just admitted he planted a seed of doubt. That's cynical.
HUGHES: He plants the seed, and people go do their own research and make their mind up.
SUSAN DEL PERCIO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Strategically, we know Donald Trump has jumped the shark about 22 times so far. We never know what he's going to say next or how far he's going to go.
So far, it has worked for him in the polls that we just saw there in dead heat in multiple polls. The voters will decide how far is too far, and we'll see that happen. But right now, I agree with part what Scottie said. His job is to
unite the party, because he has to have as many people behind him as early on because he has a heck of a job --
BURNETT: -- are to the right, so you go for the conspiracy.
DEL PERCIO: But he has to have that solid, because pretty soon Hillary Clinton won't be fighting a battle on the left and right. She'll just be attacking him.
BURNETT: So here's the thing. Does it matter what Donald Trump himself has said? Forget that he's drudging up things that have been discredited in these cases, Kellyanne. Here is Donald Trump talking about his once pal, buddy ol' pal, Bill Clinton.
TRUMP: I think Bill Clinton has done a terrific job. I don't think he's been treated very fairly, but I think he's done a terrific job.
Paula Jones is a loser, but the fact is that she may be responsible for bringing down a president indirectly.
Look at the trouble Bill Clinton got into with something that was totally unimportant, and they tried to impeach him, which was nonsense.
BURNETT: OK, let's get --
MARC MORIAL, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL URBAN LEAGUE: Donald Trump is continuing to be consistently inconsistent. In the 1990s he said one thing. Today he said something else. That's been a complete pattern. It's entertaining. It's a side show. The voters want to hear conversations about them, their future, their lives, the plans that the candidates have.
BURNETT: Except they don't seem to want that, Mark. That doesn't seem to be what's resonating.
MORIAL: What resonates in ratings isn't what's going to resonate with voters when they're sitting around the kitchen table really discussing what they're going to vote for. So we've got to understand --
BURNETT: But Marc Lamont Hill, this has -- the polls have moved dramatically, and this has been the conversation. So it is -- it is resonating with somebody. MARC LAMONT HILL, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, that's what's mind
boggling. That's what's mind boggling about this. One, strategically, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Right? You don't go into personal attacks this early in the season. It usually gets chippy around July, August. We're only in May, and he's already doing this.
Second, you don't want to go negative this early, because it takes away from the issues, as Marc Morial is pointing out.
HILL: However, Donald Trump continues to defy logic. Everything he does continues to work, despite the fact that he's -- it's unethical, it's immoral, it's outrageous. It continues to work, and it's shown because the gap is closing here between Trump.
HILL: In fact, in some polls, he's up two or three points.
BURNETT: But Kellyanne, you think Paula Jones is a loser, OK? Consistent terminology over the years. She's a loser that got (inaudible) except for now she is the person that he is saying is in the right, and Bill Clinton is this horrible person.
KELLYANNE CONWAY, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, now he's running for elective office against Hillary Clinton. Then, he was speaking as a private citizen, and you're taking one clip.
But let me just say this. I think we're all overthinking this, with all due respect. What is Donald Trump's job right now, as Hillary Clinton takes on two men she never expected to take on? Bernie Sanders on her left and Donald Trump in the general election.
It's his job to show two things. One, he's unapologetically unafraid of Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton and all a Clinton candidacy would mean. And, number two, he needs to get into their heads. And if anybody tells me he's not in Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton's head, you're lying.
BURNETT: OK, but then -- but Marc, here's the thing.
MORIAL: He's trying to not make the election about him, his positions --
MORIAL: -- and prior statements.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it's working.
MORIAL: He's trying to distract attention --
(CROSSTALK) MORIAL: -- away from his lack of policy positions --
MORIAL: -- and what he said about immigrants, Muslims --
BURNETT: Hold on. Hold on. The last person that came out and talked about issues with Donald Trump and took him on mono e mono on issues was Jeb Bush. OK? And look what happened to Jeb Bush. Here's how Donald Trump treated him when he talked about the issues. This is what you got from Donald Trump.
TRUMP: Jeb Bush is a low-energy person. For him to get things done is hard.
This guy can't negotiate his way out of a paper bag.
Jeb, he's asleep. He's asleep at the wheel, folks.
He will do like a puppet whatever they say.
I watched him this morning on television, and it's a little bit sad. Don't forget, he was supposed to win.
BURNETT: Does Hillary Clinton run the risk -- run the risk by saying she will engage with him but not on the level he's engaging of being like Jeb Bush?
DEL PERCIO: But she has to wait for (inaudible) on this. She has to do it.
AVLON: Hold on. There is a case to be made that Hillary is the Jeb of the left right now. Right? She's trying to run a responsible campaign, a policy-based campaign, and he's a showman operating on a totally different level. The different, of course, is when Donald Trump was saying those nice things about Bill Clinton and saying it was ridiculous that it was impeachment, that's when he was telling the truth. Now is when he's lying, but e's a demagogue with a microphone.
HUGHES: Here's what you're forgetting. Today, he actually released a video about the veterans, about all the money that he's raised for them as well as what he wants to do for veterans. Are we talking about that today? No, we're talking about something that he posted yesterday on Instagram.
DEL PERCIO: That's because yesterday --
HUGHES: We're not talking --
(CROSSTALK) HILL: -- 24 hours ago?
HUGHES: No, I'm saying that he did release policy today, and for some reason, it's not being covered.
HILL: Because he (inaudible) murder conspiracy the day before. It's somewhat distracting.
HILL: He's raising the distraction. You can't get mad at us for talking about the thing that he raised.
HUGHES: Well, don't sit there and tell me that he's not talking policy and not releasing it. He's covering all the gamut.
HILL: Yes, veterans and murderers in the same day. You're right. He's covering every aspect. I never expected that to be part of a presidential campaign.
BURNETT: Hold on.
BURNETT: Hold on. Thank you. It's all going to be here in just a couple moments.
Next, the Clintons say they were dead broke when they left the White House. So wait till you hear how much they have earned since then and what that means for this campaign. Our panel is back.
And breaking news on the doomed airliner. New details from the pilot himself just moments before take-off.
And a new Clinton ad using Trump's own words about a real estate collapse.
TRUMP: I sort of hope that happens, because then people like me would go in and buy. You could you make a lot of money.
BURNETT: Tonight, Trump firing back.
BURNETT: Tonight, scandal in Clinton land. A long-time friend and close ally of the Clintons under investigation, and it could shake up the race for 2016. The Virginia governor, Terry McAuliffe, today denying any wrong doing after CNN broke the story that the FBI is investigating illegal campaign contributions. One donor in particular giving money to both McAuliffe and the Clinton Foundation.
And this is not the only money issue that could haunt Hillary Clinton in this campaign. Sunlen Serfaty is OUTFRONT.
SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the campaign trail, Hillary Clinton highlights her humble beginnings.
H. CLINTON: I didn't make much money, but I could afford to do it because I was paying back a low percentage on interest.
SERFATY: But she avoids drawing attention to the vast wealth she and her husband have accumulated since entering the public eye.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Millions?
H. CLINTON: Yes. Yes, indeed.
SERFATY: Millions indeed. The Clintons earned nearly $141 million over an eight-year span from 2007 to 2014, according to tax returns released by the campaign. They own two posh properties, a five- bedroom, four-bathroom home in Chappaqua, New York, purchased for $1.7 million, and a four-bedroom house in a ritzy D.C. neighborhood that came with a price tag of $2.8 million.
The Clintons' financial comfort affords them luxurious vacations, from Martha's Vineyard to the Caribbean. Last summer, the couple rented out a home in the Hamptons. The bill for one week, 50 grand.
Clinton's comments about her economic status has tripped her up before.
H. CLINTON: We came out of the White House not only dead broke but in debt. We had no money when we got there, and we struggled to, you know, piece together the resources for mortgages for houses, for Chelsea's education. You know, it was not easy.
SERFATY: That "dead broke" remark prompting a quick clean-up.
H. CLINTON: I regret it. It was inartful. It was accurate.
SERFATY: The Clintons did have debt when they left the White House estimated at between 2 million and $10 million.
B. CLINTON: It is factually true that we were several million dollars in debt.
SERFATY: But coming off eight years in the White House, the couple also stood ready to cash in on their political fame. Hillary Clinton's books raking in multi-million dollar deals, the last two getting at least $8 million apiece.
Even more lucrative for the Clintons, the speaking circuit. According to CNN's analysis of the family's financial records, the Clintons earned more than $155 million from paid speeches over a 15-year period, with the average speech bringing in more than $211,000 a pop.
Clinton's Democratic rival, Bernie Sanders, has seized on her speeches to Wall Street in particular.
BERNIE SANDERS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now, what I have said is if you're going to get paid $225,000 for a speech, must be a pretty good speech.
SERFATY: Clinton, though, says she does not regret taking the fees for those speeches.
H. CLINTON: Look, I made speeches to lots of groups. I told them what I thought. I answered questions.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: But did you have to be paid $675,000?
H. CLINTON: Well, I don't know. That's what they offered.
SERFATY: And Clinton's latest financial disclosure forms reveal last year alone Hillary Clinton made over $1.4 million in paid speeches and over $5 million just from her book royalties alone. Erin?
All right, Sunlen, thank you very much.
My panel is back with me. Mark Lamont Hill, let me start with what Sunlen just concluded with, $1.5 million in speeches, six speeches in 2015. Some of these were in the month before she announced she was running for president. eBay, $315,000 in March. One month later, she was running for president. Is that bad judgment?
HILL: It's not bad judgment to take a lot of money for a speech. Right? That's what --
BURNETT: It is a month before you announce you're running for president.
HILL: I don't think necessarily, particularly --
MORIAL: Marc's on his way to that.
HILL: Yes, and I was going to say, and I'm available, everybody.
CONWAY: Marc's more interesting than Hillary Clinton.
HILL: But here's the thing. The question is who are you giving these speeches to and what are you saying. I think that's the Bernie Sanders question. But ultimately, I don't think it matters to voters. And the reason it doesn't matter to voters is because she's running against Donald Trump. So I mean, Donald Trump has no moral authority to talk about making too much money or about -- or about molding your message to meet the audience. He does both of those.
BURNETT: Donald Trump has done the same thing. He said if I can get money all the way up the line when I announce the president, I'm going to take the money.
CONWAY: But that's so different, because he has employed thousands and thousands of people. The Clintons are -- they're worth hundreds and -- they're worth over 150 to $200 million. And they've never brought a company public. They didn't hit the lottery.
Look, first of all --
CONWAY: -- association. You just had the graphic, Erin. The American (inaudible) Association, $250,000 the week before -- the month before she's going to run for president. Go and donate the money.
MORIAL: The money was legally earned.
CONWAY: Go and donate it. It looks terrible. That's a silly argument.
MORIAL: It's closed. And number two, Donald Trump licenses his -- licenses his name.
CONWAY: It still looks bad. She should have donated the money so -- she should have donated the money so low-incoming kids can go camping. She doesn't even think to donate. It's all about the money for Hillary Clinton.
HILL: Donald Trump had donated that he made the month before he ran for office?
MORIAL: Let's see his tax returns.
CONWAY: Go to read "Clinton cash" and see the movie. Follow the money.
HILL: Should he have donated a bunch of money that he made (inaudible)?
HILL: He certainly made more than $1.5 million.
BURNETT: OK, the overall speeches, though, 92 speeches. She has disclosed this, to your point. This is a full disclosure by her. April 2013 to March 2015, $21.7 million, John Avlon. I looked through them.
Obviously, you've got a lot of banks. Goldman Sachs, they're all on there, $225,000. You just heard her say to Anderson Cooper the reason she got $225,000 is because that's what they're offering. But when you look at this, almost every single company paid her $225,000. That doesn't look like an offer. That looks like an ask.
AVLON: Exactly. It's not what they offered. It's what they accepted. That sounds like that was her flat fee.
BURNETT: It's the bid offer, to use Wall Street terminology.
AVLON: Yes, and gets a little bit into what the definition of "is" is when it comes to your speaking fees. But clearly, that was apparently her market rate. And look, to the extent that the average family of four makes $55,000 a year, that's a big number for folks to ingest.
AVLON: And that's a hurdle she's going to have to clear. It's more of an issue against Bernie Sanders than it's going to be against Donald Trump.
DEL PERCIO: And they also -- and they also said, you know -- Hillary Clinton recently said she's not that great of a campaigner. Well, clearly, she also doesn't know how to be a good candidate, because a good candidate would not be taking these speeches knowing you're going to run for president. It was absolutely ludicrous.
Besides what Kellyanne mentioned, I think the fact that she took all these money from -- all this money from schools, including New York University at Buffalo, she should have donated the money back.
BURNETT: Well, a lot of hit she going to say did go to the Clinton Foundation.
DEL PERCIO: But that's not the same thing.
DEL PERCIO: It's showing good judgment.
HUGHES: It's all about buying influence, and that's not -- it's not about her giving a great speech, something that everybody -- it's all about buying influence. That's why these companies had her in. That's why when she became Secretary of State, Bill Clinton, that day, his speaking fees doubled. It was all about getting face time with possibly a future president.
BURNETT: OK, but what about the perception? Whether that is true or not, whether that actually ever happened, but it could be a perception.
MORIAL: It's fair game. It's fair game in politics, but it's in comparison to Donald Trump, who hasn't release his tax returns. And we have no idea what his charitable contributions are.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But so you're basically say it's kind of dirty but it's not dirty --
MORIAL: The entire conversation is a distraction and a side show away --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No way.
MORIAL: -- away from the real issues in the campaign. And I think that's what we're seeing playing out. Donald Trump doesn't want to discuss his positions or his record.
MORIAL: He wants to keep the focus on his opponent.
CONWAY: Bottom line, ladies watching, it takes you on average four to six years to make what Hillary Clinton made in one speech. That is the issue here. She's here for women. She's here for the middle class. She's going to save everybody. It takes you four to five --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump said that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This billionaire.
BURNETT: OK, hold on. We've got to go, but it is capitalism. Right? If you get to be First Lady or Secretary of State, and you can capitalize on that. What's wrong with that?
BURNETT: Hold on. Hold on. When you all talk at the same time, no one can hear any of you.
MORIAL: She doesn't have to take a vow of poverty to run for president.
BURNETT: Fair point.
BURNETT: Thank you. OUTFRONT next, Donald Trump raising millions in just three days from big California donors. We have the numbers tonight. How can Trump justify that after months of slamming that kind of fund-raising? Well, I'm going to ask my next guest, Dr. Ben Carson.
And Bernie Sanders saying if he wins California, he wins the nomination. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANDERS: And if we march out with the Democratic nomination, Donald Trump is toast.
BURNETT: Is Hillary Clinton making a big mistake ignoring Sanders to attack Trump?
BURNETT: Right now we are awaiting Hillary Clinton, who will take the stage at a rally in California. Clinton expected to hit Trump tonight where it hurts the most, his wallet and how rich he is, questioning whether he's a good businessman. It's a new line of attack from the Democratic front-runner.
H. CLINTON: You know what happened during the great recession. He actually said he was hoping for the crash that caused hard working families in California and across America to lose their homes, all because he thought he could take advantage of it to make some money for himself.
BURNETT: Our senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny is traveling with the Clinton campaign. He's OUTFRONT live in Riverside, California for us tonight. So Jeff, why does the campaign believe that this attack right now is actually going to stick?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Erin, the campaign believes that everyone knows Donald Trump is successful. What they're trying to get people to think about is he being a success for himself or is he fighting for everyone else.
So this, I'm told, is the beginning of a long argument the campaign wants to make against Donald Trump. And Erin, it was happening across the Democratic Party. There were members of Congress from battleground states making it. There were surrogates making it. Of course, the candidate herself was making it and will make it again here tonight.
[19:30:03] So, this is what the campaign is trying to do, is take a part something that is a strength of Donald Trump's and try and turn this into a weakness.
Now, Donald Trump, of course, released a statement to us a short time ago. He says this, he said, "I am a businessman and I have made a lot of money in down markets. In some cases, as much as I have made when the markets are good. Frankly, this is the kind of thinking our country needs, understanding how to get a good result out of a very bad and sad situation."
So, Erin, Donald Trump is not backing away from that. He's simply saying that's the sign of a good businessman. Of course, voters will have to sort out which side they believe in.
The Democrats believe this is a good argument for them. We'll see if they put any money on it, behind it in commercials and ads. That is always the sign of how effective an argument actually is -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Jeff Zeleny, thank you very much. Live from the Clinton rally tonight in California.
Jeffrey Lord is OUTFRONT now from the Reagan White House, political director, a Donald Trump supporter, along with Bill Kristol, editor of "The Weekly Standard", and Democratic Congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio, who has endorsed Hillary Clinton and is right now speaking about this very issue to voters.
I know you're going to the mat with this, congressman.
Jeff Lord, let me start with you, though. Hillary Clinton trying to hit Donald Trump where it hurts, right, how rich he is, how good at business he is. He is doubling down tonight saying this is the kind of thinking this country needs, even as, you know, trying to defend things like saying it would be great if the real estate market crashed so someone like me can come in and make money.
Is that going to hurt him? I mean, those are real words that he said. A lot of people in this country felt incredible amount of pain during that time.
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This is going to be very interesting. I'll tell you, the Clinton's sole business experience was Whitewater. And for those who forget this or were not around at the time, there was a criminal referral to the FBI on their dealings in real estate. In other words, whatever else you want to say, the Clintons had absolutely no business sense whatsoever.
Donald Trump has employed more people than Hillary Clinton has ever seen in her lifetime. So, that's number one.
Number two, if we're going to get into the housing crisis and all of this kind of thing, the housing crisis was in part caused by Bill Clinton and his housing policies in the 1990s, in which they wanted to make certain - -
BURNETT: This is about Trump bragging about profiting from people's pain.
LORD: Well, what do you think Whitewater was about?
BURNETT: So you think it's equivalent? Congressman Ryan --
LORD: What I'm saying is that they have no business sense, they have no business sense, they're up against a real business man who has run a successful business like a lot of small business people around this country.
LORD: The Clintons have no clue how to do this and they've shown it.
BURNETT: Congressman Ryan, you were shaking your head.
REP. TIM RYAN (D), OHIO; ENDORSED HILLARY CLINTON: Well, this is a total distraction. The bottom line is anybody who has played Monopoly knows if you have a lot of money, you can make money in a down market. That's not exactly a business genius.
And Jeff does not want to answer the question. Donald Trump was rooting for a market collapse. He was cheering it on. He was hoping for it.
And for those of us who were in the foxhole in 2008, '09, '10, with families calling our office are going bankrupt, losing their homes, breaking up families --
LORD: Because of Clinton policies.
RYAN: It is -- no. Jeff, you had your turn, I have mine.
That disgusts us -- that is disgusting us to think that someone with the means of Donald Trump was sitting in his gold plated tower in downtown New York City, jet-setting all over the world, hoping for a collapse market, knowing that 400,000 families were displaced in Ohio and he was hoping for it. It has nothing to do with business.
This is about the kind of attitude and I think this disconnection he has from how real people live in the world.
BURNETT: Bill, do you think that it's fair to use the word disgusting, a word that Donald Trump likes to use, to apply to him and his behavior here? Will it stick to him and his voters?
BILL KRISTOL, THE WEEKLY STANDARD: I think it's fair, Erin, to use the word "depressing" when I hear this conversation. With all due respect, Jeff Lord and Tim Ryan, who are both intelligent men. I mean, really? Are we going to have the 2016 presidential election be a debate about Whitewater and about whether Donald Trump would short real estate in 2008?
Incidentally, it was Hillary Clinton, a senator from New York, in 2007, 2008. I don't really remember her proposals that would have averted the housing bubble, but I'm not going to defend Donald Trump either, who has no in my opinion, particularly credentials to be president.
So, this is the kind of campaign we're going to have if this is just a Clinton/Trump campaign. There are already -- 60 percent of Americans already dislike both of them and it going to get higher. That's why I think there is an opening for an independent candidate. Not just because I don't like either of them but think about this, are we really going to have this kind of campaign between these two people, who incidentally attended -- didn't the Clintons attend the Trump's wedding in 2007?
BURNETT: Yes, they did. KRISTOL: So, if Donald Trump is so outraged by Bill Clinton's past,
why was he so proud to have that photo taken with Bill and Hillary Clinton? And if Hillary Clinton is so outraged about Donald Trump's business, why was she at the wedding?
BURNETT: So, Congressman Ryan, let me ask you, because this line of attack has been done to Donald Trump before, right? By his own party, right? He was running against 16 other people and they took him on in particular about another issue that was a very human issue related to his business. You remember, the widow that he took away, her home because of imminent domain, because of a casino in Atlantic City. This is an issue Jeb Bush tried to make a big deal of, Ted Cruz tried to make a deal of.
Here's what they said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What Donald Trump did was use eminent domain to try to take the property of an elderly woman on the strip in Atlantic City.
SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: A man who has a multi-decade history of exploiting the immigration laws to take advantage of the little guy is not someone we can trust to stand with the working men and women in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: That failed, Congressman. It completely failed. Both of those men are not running for president. Donald Trump is the presumptive nominee. Why do you have think it's going to work when you're trying it?
RYAN: First of all, nobody's watching. That was 10 percent of the electorate even participating in the Republican primaries.
BURNETT: But those were debates. I've got to tell you, a lot of those people were watching.
RYAN: Second, nobody know what is eminent domain is.
And, third, people know when they go bankrupt. There's 400,000 families in Ohio that went bankrupt or lost their home during the housing crisis, and now they know that Donald Trump was rooting that on. Those people didn't know that.
I think this is just the very beginning of the unraveling of Donald Trump because this hits people in their pocketbook, it hits them in their home, and this is going to be the demise of Donald Trump. This is the beginning, you mark my words.
LORD: Bill Clinton --
BURNETT: We will see.
LORD: Bill Clinton hit these folks in their pocketbook and Donald Trump will remind them.
BURNETT: All right.
RYAN: Twenty-two million new jobs, that was their pocketbook, right?
LORD: They lost their house, Congressman.
BURNETT: Glad to have you both on with Bill Kristol shaking his head in the middle of the screen here.
RYAN: Every economic group growing wages, Jeff. You know that.
BURNETT: Thank you all very much.
And OUTFRONT next, Donald Trump's attacks on Bill Clinton's sex scandals. Is he going too far? Trump supporter Ben Carson, my guest, next.
And breaking news, with new details about the condition of EgyptAir 804 right before take-off and why the bodies of the victims that they are now finding may hold the answer to what caused the crash.
[19:41:05] BURNETT: Breaking news: Trump getting a big endorsement from a former rival tonight. Rick Santorum who dropped out of the presidential race in February is now backing Trump, saying he was swayed by Trump's list of possible Supreme Court nominees. And this comes as Trump is courting donors. Moments from now, he'll hold his first fund-raiser with the RNC in Albuquerque, $10,000 a ticket and he has another big fund-raiser in Los Angeles tomorrow.
A source tells me tonight, he has raised nearly $6 million in less than 72 hours for that Los Angeles event.
And OUTFRONT now, former 2016 Republican presidential candidate, Trump supporter, Dr. Ben Carson, really the first o get on board.
Dr. Carson, Trump has repeatedly slammed campaign fund-raisers like the one he's hosting tonight and he's bragged until the cows come home about funding his own campaign. A general election caused a million dollars. He wants to raise money. I've talked to donors, at lot of them are hesitant. The biggest donors, they want him to put a lot of his own money in the game.
Are you starting to see big donors come on board?
BEN CARSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, there are big donors who are getting very interested. Right now, I think there's some confusion as who which one of the super PACs to commit to and I think that's in the process of being worked out. But I think the donors will come. They recognize that it's more of an investment.
You can invest your money in this campaign of Donald Trump and somebody who believes in traditional American principles or you can hold on to your money and allow somebody who has more of a socialist bent to get in and they just take your money anyway.
BURNETT: One top fund-raiser, though, told me that he thinks he was raising money for all the governors and others running this election season, that Donald Trump needs to put half what billion of his own money in to convince big donors. He keeps saying he's got $10 billion. If he has $10 billion, it should be no problem to put half a billion, never mind a billion in of his own money.
Is he going to do that? Is he going to put in real serious, hundreds of millions of dollars to put his own skin in the game?
CARSON: Well, I know several people who are big real estate developers and they have a lot of money. But it's not liquid. It's in buildings. It's in properties. So, it's not that easy to liquidate all that and just put it into a campaign. If worst came to worst, I think he would but it doesn't look like it will be necessary.
BURNETT: Donald Trump, of course, as you know, Dr. Carson, is going against Hillary Clinton, reviving decades old sex allegations against Bill Clinton. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She's married to a man who is the worst abuser of women in the history of politics. She's married a man who hurt many women.
I mean, have you ever read what Hillary Clinton did to the women that Bill Clinton had affairs with?
She's got one of the great woman abusers of all time sitting at her house.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
BURNETT: Dr. Carson, I know you're supporting Donald Trump, of course, but do you think that these attacks on a personal level are fair?
CARSON: It probably is a part of who we have become as a nation. Would I love to see a situation where the candidates sat down and actually talked about the issues and about the ideas so that people could really make the right kind of decision, not based on emotionalism? I would love that. I think we would all love that.
But that's not where we are as a nation. We're in what I call the WWE Raw stage. And if you don't understand, you're going to be at a disadvantage. I guarantee you that Hillary and her crew will be using it. So if Donald Trump sits back and says, "I'm going to be a nice guy," it probably will work to his disadvantage.
That's not the way it should be and I hope that someday it won't be that way in America but today it is.
BURNETT: All right. Dr. Carson, thank you very. Always appreciate talking to you, sir. Thank you tonight.
CARSON: Always a pleasure. Thank you, Erin.
BURNETT: And next, breaking news in the crash of EgyptAir Flight 804. New details about the plane from the pilot just before takeoff.
And the battle to drive ISIS out of the key Iraqi city underway. Barbara Starr is in Iraq with an exclusive report OUTFRONT.
[19:49:10] BURNETT: Breaking news: we now know one of the last things of pilot of EgyptAir flight 804 did right before take-off. Egyptian state media just releasing these images, we show them to you now.
This is the pilot signing off on the plane, at that time saying it was in normal condition, this coming as coming to light about whether there was an explosion on board.
Brian Todd is OUTFRONT.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Conflicting accounts of the final moments of EgyptAir Flight 804, deepening the mystery tonight over the plane's fate, still unknown whether there was an explosion on board. The initial answer may come from the bodies.
An official at the Cairo morgue tells CNN more than 15 bags of human remains have been delivered to the morgue. The official says those remains are small in size. EgyptAir's vice chairman is refuting remarks from some Egyptian officials that small body parts indicate there was an explosion onboard.
[19:50:02] AHMED ADEL, VICE CHAIRMAN, EGYPTAIR: In any high velocity impact, it leads to defragmentations. And this is not indicative of what caused the accident. So, as of now, this is all speculations.
TODD: Veteran investigators tell CNN body recovery is critical. A detailed examination of the bodies could reveal important clues.
DAVID GLEAVE, AVIATION SAFETY INVESTIGATOR: We would x-ray the bodies to look for fragments of bomb blasts and things like that. That may give you information.
TODD: Another point of contention tonight, did EgyptAir Flight 804 make a dramatic swerve before it vanished? Shortly after the crash, the Greek defense minister said radar indicated the plane swerved 90 degrees left, then 360 degrees right before it plummeted.
But a top Egyptian aviation official now denies that saying, the aircraft did not swerve or make a precipitous drop in altitude before it disappeared.
A veteran control and radar expert says it's possible neither official is wrong. That they're saying simply what their own respective radars picked up.
ALAN BELL, FORMER MILITARY PILOT AND CONTROLLER: The Greeks had potentially multiple surveillance radars tracking the airplane and the airplane had just flown over their airplane and was in close proximity so they would have been able to have a higher resolution on what the airplane was doing.
TODD: The Egyptian radars, Alan Bell says, may have been much further away when the EgyptAir flight came into their airspace and they only tracked it for about a minute before it disappeared -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Brian, thank you very much.
OUTFRONT now, our aviation analyst Miles O'Brien.
Miles, when you look at this trying to get answers, the man leading the investigation is the same man headed up to the investigation of the MetroJet crash. Of course, more than 200 people died there. The Egyptians denied terrorism was involved for a long time. You've now got the same person in charge of this.
Are we going to ever find out what happened to Flight 804?
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: I don't have a tremendous amount of confidence that we're going to get straight answers from the Egyptians. There are other accidents in history where they haven't come clean as well.
You know, this is a subject of international concern and worry. We're talking about one of the most wildly flown aircraft in the world. If there's a problem with it, we need to know now and if there's a security breach, a terror attack of some kind, we need to know that as well now.
And since it is an international concern, it seems to me these investigations should rely upon the best and brightest in the world, not just one country.
BURNETT: So you have real concern and you mentioned something, if this is a terror attack and it's at Charles de Gaulle, it is a game changer for the whole world and for airports around the world, and for airports around the world, urgent to know that the second we possibly can. But on a mechanical basis, you point out, this is one of the most widely flown aircraft.
You have lives at rick now around the world possibly if this was some sort of a malfunction, like Air France 447 was with those pitot tubes.
O'BRIEN: I think it's the responsibility of airlines and countries that fly these aircraft to demonstrate a certain amount of capability and expertise to get timely, accurate answers when these unfortunate circumstances happen, and what we're seeing right now doesn't give us a lot of confidence that is what's happening.
BURNETT: All right. Miles O'Brien, thank you very much.
OUTFRONT next, ISIS forces under siege. The battle for a crucial Iraqi city under way, our Barbara Starr explosively with this report on the ground.
[19:57:09] BURNETT: Tonight, a battle with ISIS. New video just in to CNN showing Iraqi troops attacking the ISIS stronghold of Falluja. American-led forces pounding ISIS targets with airstrikes.
Barbara Starr is OUTFRONT with this exclusive.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Iraqi forces moving in on Falluja, trying to take back a crucial city in the province from ISIS's grip.
TAUFIQ, IRAQI ARMY FIRST LIEUTENANT (through translator): We have secured safe out let's to let displaced families get out of the city. About 55 families got out since last night.
STARR: But thousands remain trapped complicating the battle. The top U.S. commander running the war against ISIS is watching carefully for the stress on the Iraqi military as it struggles on multiple fronts including Falluja.
GEN. JOSEPH VOTEL, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: They're having to make decisions in terms of where their force is going, where their priorities are.
STARR: Trouble also brewing in Bagdad, even after 13 years of fighting. Suicide attacks are a constant problem, raising serious questions about the U.S. security posture inside the Green Zone, where the U.S. embassy and military headquarters are located.
VOTEL: I do think we have the right security forces on the ground from the U.S. perspective to take care of ourselves.
STARR: CNN was the only network with General Joseph Votel, the U.S. commander in charge of the war against ISIS as he traveled in Iraq, getting the latest assessments on security and the readiness of Iraqi forces. Votel is trying to strike a balance and convince Iraq's military to make sure to station enough troops around the country rather than flood Baghdad with security forces falling into ISIS's trap and removing troops from the battlefield.
VOTEL: They're attempting to divert attention away from other areas where the coalition forces and the Iraqis are having success.
STARR: This U.S. military warehouse in Kuwait brimming with military weapons for those Iraqi forces. Getting ISIS out of Mosul, Iraq's second largest city, remains the ultimate goal. And if Iraqi forces can focus on that, it is here at the rarely seen coalition operation center in Baghdad that the attack will be tracked. (on camera): When the fight for Mosul begins, you want to make sure
there's no unexpected fighting as a result down here in central --
VOTEL: We can't allow this to destabilize down here because it feeds into Baghdad.
STARR: And that's part of the challenge. All of these towns and villages are linked strategically. Progress has to be made on all fronts -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Barbara, thank you very much. Live from Jordan tonight.
And thanks to you all so much for joining us. We'll see you tomorrow night here on OUTFRONT.
"AC360" tonight with John Berman starts right now.