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THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER

Giant Spacecraft Juno Nears Jupiter; Disney Gator Attack: Child's Father Said 2 Alligators Involved; Patricia Arquette Makes Push For Equal Pay For Women; Arquette Fights The Gender Gap On The Hill; Arquette Calls For DNA Testing On Rape Kit Backlogs. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired July 4, 2016 - 04:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[16:30:00]

DANNY VARGAS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: When they knew she would be meeting with the FBI this past weekend. She was going to be spending a lot of time talking about her situation. That was the wrong move to make, and not just from an appearances standpoint.

There are some legitimate concerns about what discussions took place between former President Clinton and the attorney general. That was a bone-headed move on both parts.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: What was Bill Clinton thinking? And to be fair, it's not just people in Washington or outside of Washington who see it. It looked bad to lots of folks here as well.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, first of all, if Bill Clinton wanted to call somebody, I think he has a phone. I think she has a phone. You wouldn't have to arrange a big public picnic with everybody around for him to go do it.

I think he probably -- what was he thinking? He probably just wasn't thinking that much. There is just a kind of way that people around these circles of power, they go, they hug, they kiss, how's the family? But I tell you, you say it was bone-headed. I'm not going to argue with you.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you about Bill Clinton, because there was this concern before the campaign frankly about his danger. And back in 2008, there were some times when he stepped in it, no question. Is he more of a liability to Hillary Clinton?

VARGAS: I think at this point, after this meeting with attorney general, he is going to have to step back considerably and probably let President Obama step in and be sort of the campaigner in chief for Hillary Clinton at this point, because Bill Clinton has a famous history of suffering from foot in mouth disease.

SCIUTTO: Right.

Van, talk about V.P. selections for Secretary Clinton. What does she need and who gives that to her?

JONES: Listen, there is a big push on now inside official Washington for Governor Kaine.

SCIUTTO: Why? Why does he seem to fit the bill?

JONES: Well, first of all, I think he doesn't fit the bill for me, but he fits the bill for a lot of people, because, first of all, he is as smart as a whip. He brings a swing state.

And also, frankly, he is a loyal guy. He's been with the Clintons for a while. I think that could be a big mistake, though, because I do think that the Clintons may be overestimating the enthusiasm from the progressive wing and from younger voters. And I think there are better choices. A Cory Booker is a better choice. Frankly, even a Tom Perez is a better choice to energize that progressive base and those younger people of color.

SCIUTTO: Danny, is there a V.P. selection for Hillary Clinton that would worry you or would make it a difficult-to-beat ticket?

VARGAS: Oh, any number of too far progressive, too far left-wing Democrats would worry me.

I think to the extent that Secretary Clinton has to nominate a Democrat, I would rather she nominate a Republican as her running mate.

(CROSSTALK)

VARGAS: ... nominate a Democrat, I think there are some that are seen as sane and capable, like Governor Kaine, Senator Kaine, whom I know and I have worked with his wife. He is a good guy and he's a stand-up guy. I think the left would have a problem with him.

He has become more partisan in some cases when he was chair of the DNC. So I think that's a concern. But I think he is a safe choice for her to make at this point. I think that Donald Trump is going to have a really hard time finding a running mate that will choose to run with him, though.

SCIUTTO: And stay with him.

Well, Danny and Van, only couple weeks to go. The convention is coming soon. Thanks very much, as always.

We have a spate of terror attacks around the world just days apart. What is being done here at home in the U.S. as millions of Americans celebrate the nation's birthday today? We ask a member of the House Intelligence Committee right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:36:32]

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

Just in the past week alone nearly 300 people have been slaughtered in three separate enormous terror attacks, including the horrific bombing that ripped through a busy shopping district in Baghdad, claiming the lives, this one attack, of 215 people, many of them women and children. Some of the bodies so severely burned, they are yet to be identified.

This as the world is reeling from who other senseless mass killings from just a few days ago, one in Turkey and another in Bangladesh.

I want to bring in CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr.

So, we try to make sense of those horrendous attacks, there are not one, but two, actually three suicide bombings in Saudi Arabia just in the last 24 hours. What are we learning about these latest attacks?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Jim, suspected ISIS attacks in Saudi Arabia, but not confirmed yet. It has been a very bloody final few days of the holy month of Ramadan and as you said especially in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STARR (voice-over): The fires massive and horrifying, at least 215 people killed in a suicide bombing that ripped through a nighttime crowded Baghdad shopping area. ISIS claimed responsibility for the worst attack in Iraq since 2003. Drone footage shows the devastation. Two days later, the search for victims goes on.

BRIG. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: The government in Baghdad for the entire country of Iraq has failed the citizens of Baghdad. That's very troubling.

STARR: Furious Iraqis desperate for security surround Prime Minister Abadi when he visits the site, then throw objects at his convoy. The coalition says this and other recent attacks suggest ISIS is lashing out because it's losing ground in Iraq and Syria.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As they attract crazies and sickos from across the globe, they are trying to show that, hey, we're still a viable threat, we're still a viable force.

STARR: Turkish authorities are still unraveling ISIS links to the attack at Istanbul Airport that killed 45. In Bangladesh, the government is working to determine what links the cafe in Dhaka had to ISIS where more than two dozen died.

Israel now believes a June 8 attack at a Tel Aviv market also inspired by ISIS.

MARKS: ISIS what been able to take advantage of time. They have increased their message. They have increased their training. They have been able to bring folks in to the Levant to join ISIS and they have been able to train them up and export them out.

STARR: Even as ISIS squeezed for territory on the battlefield, military officials say they have been making the case ISIS and its ideology cannot be killed off with bombs and bullets. LT. GEN. ROBERT OTTO, U.S. AIR FORCE: We can kill the people. We can

kill the leaders. We can kill the person who is in charge of sending out the messages to the various subgroups of the ISIL crooks and criminals, and they will move somebody up in the ranks to take their place.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: The human toll still, of course, the most heartbreaking of all. In Baghdad at that site, some parents turned up to look for hours for their teenage son who they said had gone there the night before to celebrate his birthday with some friends -- Jim.

[16:40:08]

SCIUTTO: Barbara Starr, thanks so much.

To discuss more about these horrific terror attacks, I want to bring in Congressman Adam Schiff. He's the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee.

Congressman, thank you for joining us on this holiday.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, it's good to be with you, Jim. I'm sorry it's on such a terrible subject these days.

SCIUTTO: No question. It's almost exhausting to account. You and I talk about this all the time.

But the past 12 days, there have been at least six major terror attacks, including the one in Baghdad, Turkey, Istanbul Airport, Bangladesh. Let me ask you this question, particularly as we celebrate the holiday July 4.

Does ISIS showing greater capability to attack in a number of countries around the world, does that mean that its capability is growing to carry out attacks here in the U.S. as well?

SCHIFF: Well, I think we certainly have to be on guard for that, Jim.

We are a much more difficult target to reach. And I think in the near term, the greatest risk to us remains homegrown radicals, those that are inspired by ISIS propaganda online.

But over time, I think we do have to be very concerned with the ability of ISIS to get foreign fighters into the United States. We are a big country. We're still a fairly porous country. And that's very much a risk.

They are losing territory. And as they lose territory, they want to show that they have still a very, violent capable force. And they're doing that by sending a lot of these foreign fighters back. And I think we're going to see unfortunately a lot more of this.

The real significance to me about the Turkish attack is they are using some of their Russian, Uzbek, Kyrgyz fighters to go back home. These are some of the best battlefield fighters and it may mean that they are shifting that priority as they see that the caliphate shrinking to lashing out around the globe.

SCIUTTO: You mentioned ISIS losing territory in Iraq and Syria.

Beyond trying to show their relevance and still grab attention, could this show a strategic shift by ISIS to being more of a stateless terror group rather than the self-proclaimed caliphate holding land in Iraq and Syria?

SCHIFF: I think it is a strategic shift made necessary by facts on the ground.

I think they would prefer to have a caliphate. The caliphate itself has been really the draw for these foreign fighters coming to Syria and Iraq. It is what distinguished them from al Qaeda, al Qaeda very much shrinking with the ascendancy of ISIS, at least in the public consciousness.

But now that that caliphate is shrinking, now I think that it is dawning on them that their holdings are likely to go away completely in Iraq and Syria, not immediately, but over time, they are shifting I think to this -- more of a global terrorism model, frankly, a lot more along the lines of al Qaeda, but not focused on the big splashy attacks, rather focused on quantity, rather than quality, rather than necessarily increasing the killing numbers. And that makes it very hard to defend against.

SCIUTTO: So how do you change strategy? As difficult as the campaign has been against ISIS in Iraq and Syria, at least it is a piece of ground with concentrated number of fighters. You could drop bombs on them. You could send soldiers in.

How do you respond when ISIS has proven its ability to attack in so many different countries, so many different kinds of targets?

SCHIFF: You have to use a real multiplicit -- excuse me -- multiplicity of efforts .

And that is, you have to continue to go after them militarily on the ground in places like Syria and Iraq and places like Libya to make sure that we make their caliphate disappear, get rid of that magnet that draws people to ISIS.

But then you have to work on better intelligence-sharing across the globe, so that we are aware of who is leaving the battlefront, who is being reintegrated back into places like Turkey, into the rest of Europe, as well as maybe trying to get to the United States. We have to beef up our homeland security.

We have to attack the ideological underpinnings. We have to work I think more exhaustively with our Muslim allies around the globe, with our Muslim community here at home to counter the whole narrative.

But this is likely to be a generational problem. And it is not going to admit of an easy answer. It's not going to admit of a simple or sort of one-level answer. We are going to have to fight this at a whole variety of different levels.

SCIUTTO: A generational conflict.

Congressman Adam Schiff, thanks very much for taking the time today.

SCHIFF: Thank you, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, an out-of-this-world journey five years in the making coming down to just seconds. Will the Jupiter probe miss its mark?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:47:00] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Welcome back to "THE LEAD", the out of this world lead, literally. After nearly five years, NASA's solar-powered Juno spacecraft is expected to arrive at the planet Jupiter later tonight becoming the first ever spacecraft to pierce Jupiter's dense cloud cover and travel deep into its massive radiation belts considered, maybe, the most treacherous place in our entire solar system.

Let's get right to CNN's Paul Vercammen. He's at NASA's jet propulsion laboratory in Pasadena, California. So, Paul, what are scientists hoping to learn from going inside, in effect, the atmosphere of Jupiter?

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, if you think about it, Jim, they're hoping to go back in time via the spacecraft. They're going to look at the origins of our solar system by studying Jupiter, which is probably much more like our sun than it is the earth. It's huge, it's gaseous, but there's a lot to contend with.

You mentioned that radiation. As you look at the mock-up behind me of the Juno spacecraft, it is a titanium vault meant to protect it from the radiation. They say that would be more powerful than 100 million dental x-rays. A lot of anxiety here at JPL as they're looking forward to Jupiter pulling Juno into its orbit in, really, just a matter of hours now. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BOLTON, JUNO PRINCIPAL INVESTIGATOR: It's hard to describe. I'm torn with the incredible excitement in anticipation with, oh my God, we're going in. It's really happening and it's -- and it's -- I know it's challenging. I mean, I know the business, you know. NASA and JPL are in the business of taking challenges.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERCAMMEN: And this will be the closest any spacecraft has gotten to Jupiter, Jim. And as I said, great sense of anticipation here. They've updated me, all is on schedule. Juno barreling toward Jupiter.

SCIUTTO: Five-year trip and I understand there's some precious cargo on board. VERCAMMEN: (Laughter) That, there is. The project leader -- who says scientists have no humor? He went and contacted Lego and there are three Lego figurines on board, just like the little ones that everyone's kids have. They're made of space-grade aluminum and they are appropriately of Jupiter, they are of Juno, and they are of Galileo.

[04:50:00] You are looking at the only copies or replicas so these are, indeed, the most rare Legos in the galaxy, Jim.

SCIUTTO: We'll see who gets to play with them out there. Paul Vercammen live from Pasadena, thanks very much.

New information about the deadly alligator attack at Disney World. When the father was trying to save his son it turns out he wasn't fighting just one alligator.

[04:50:35]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:53:40] SCIUTTO: Welcome back. Our national lead now. New details in the death of that young boy grabbed by an alligator at a Disney resort in Orlando last month. Two-year-old Lane Graves' father told rescue officials that he was attacked by a second alligator as he tried to save his young son. That's according to email records obtained by the "Orlando Sentinel".

A captain with the fire department also said the child's father initially refused to leave the scene despite lacerations from the alligator's teeth. He was eventually persuaded after he was told he could return after receiving medical treatment. Five alligators were killed in the search for that little boy.

Let's go now to Jake Tapper with one woman's mission to bring light to an issue that's often ignored.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, HOST, "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER": Our buried lead, it's a topic that affects all Americans, one that is mentioned regularly on the campaign trail by Hillary Clinton. Equal pay for women. It's something that recent Oscar winner, Patricia Arquette, spent almost her entire best-supporting actress acceptance speech talking about.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICIA ARQUETTE, OSCAR-WINNING ACTRESS, ACTIVIST: To every woman who gave birth to every taxpayer and citizen of this nation, we have fought for everybody else's equal rights. It's our time to have wage equality, once and for all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[04:55:00] TAPPER: She received, as you may remember, a standing ovation and cheers from several other big-name female actors, including Meryl Streep. Now, I heard that speech again the next day on the radio while riding in the car with my little girl -- my daughter. She told me that Arquette's words made her feel inspired and empowered.

Fast-forward to just a few days ago on Capitol Hill. I was walking to a meeting in the Republican National Committee and I ran into Patricia Arquette. She was on the Hill and at the RNC talking to lawmakers lobbying for many issues important to her, including equal pay, and I invited her on the show, and here she is. Patricia Arquette, thanks for being here.

ARQUETTE: Thanks for having me.

TAPPER: So, first off, just to address to skeptics watching right now, they think you're a multi-millionaire movie star, T.V. actress. What do you know about pay and equity? What do you tell them?

ARQUETTE: Well, first of all, I think I'm in a position where I actually can get in the room to have some of these meetings, or I do -- I can bring my voice to shed light on situations that other people can't. This woman just said to me today -- she said thank you for using your voice because I can never get in the room. I can never get on T.V. to talk about this. You're fighting for me and I really appreciate it. So, that's really what it's about.

But I was a single mom. I know what it's like to not know if you can buy food and diapers and how that is.

TAPPER: I heard Hillary Clinton recently say something along the lines of we're going to get rid of pay inequity. That we're going to get rid of the wage gap. How? How do you get rid of it?

ARQUETTE: Well, I think we need fair pay laws state-by-state. We just passed one in California. We need a more comprehensive look at bias because it's not just fair pay. The truth is, in America, if women had equal pay, half of the 66 million women and kids living in poverty would not be. So, those are full-time working women and they're still in poverty with our kids.

TAPPER: Now, some people pushing back on the idea of pay inequity say hey, sometimes women drop out of the workforce to have a family and then they come back in and they don't have as much experience as the men who are their same age. So, do any of these laws address some of those concerns?

ARQUETTE: Well, in even the most conservative estimates there's a five to seven percent gender bias they cannot account for, other than it is a gender bias.

TAPPER: You were on Capitol Hill specifically, when I ran into you, addressing also issues of this backlog of rape kits all over the country.

ARQUETTE: Right. So here, we have to look at bias again and it's not just one state that happened to have a closet full of untested DNA rape kits. So, these rape kits are taken -- when a woman's raped it takes the genetic material, hopefully of her and her rapist, it puts it through the analyzing machine, and hopefully you can find his DNA in the system and arrest him, right?

Well, it wasn't just one state. Every state has these DNA backlogs, some for decades. Some we still don't even know how many rape kits they have. This is happening because the majority of the victims are women. You see the gender bias in the judicial process, you see it in the funding process.

Look, even in Utah, if there's a male rape victim and a female rape victim, the male rape victim has a 46 percent higher likelihood of his DNA rape kit being tested. So that's why we need the Equal Rights Amendment, which was never passed. But had it been passed, women would have this higher scrutiny of law that women need to have constitutionally to start looking at all these areas of bias.

TAPPER: So you think -- you think this broader law of the Equal Rights Amendment would make states, and localities, and cities more on their guard about doing things that don't help women?

ARQUETTE: It would give lawyers a judicial -- the teeth that they need to go into court and start to examine all these areas of bias and finally make shifts that really make a large difference for women because -- look, two percent of rapists ever spend a day in jail. That's a horrifying statistic but it's true.

We're all shocked and heartbroken about this Stanford rape case, but it's not abnormal. That is the norm and that's why we have to say no more, and we have to give women and their lawyers every ability they can to change this situation.

TAPPER: Patricia Arquette, thank you so much, appreciate it.

ARQUETTE: Thank you. Thanks.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Our thanks to the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences for giving us permission to use Patricia Arquette's Oscar speech.

That's it for "THE LEAD". I'm Jim Sciutto in again, today, for Jake Tapper. You can follow me @jimsciutto on Twitter. Brianna Keilar picks it up from here. Please enjoy the holiday. Happy Fourth to everyone.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Happening now, I'm Brianna Keilar. This is CNN NEWSROOM. Trump controversy -- Donald Trump posts and then deletes a tweet --