Return to Transcripts main page
FBI Investigating DNC Hack; Is Putin Trying to Affect Election?; Trump and Clinton trade Blows on Campaign Trail; Clinton Acceptance Speech Examined. Aired 10-11p ET
Aired July 29, 2016 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:00:00] ANDERSON COOPER, AC360 SHOW HOST: Thanks for watching. I hope you had a great weekend. We'll see you on Monday. CNN Tonight with Don Lemon starts now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.
DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: Breaking news. The FBI investigating hacking of the Clinton campaign and Democratic Party.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
It sounds a lot like 21st century Watergate, shadowy forces attacking the Democratic Party and its presidential candidate. But is Russia to blame here and is Vladimir Putin hoping to cause chaos in the midst of our most important election in years?
Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump blasting each other on the campaign trail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump painted a picture, a negative, dark, divisive picture of a country in decline. He insisted that America is weak and he told us all after laying out this very dark picture that I alone can fix it.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Every time I mention her, everyone screams "lock her up, lock her up" and you know what I do? I've been nice. But after watching that performance last night, such lies. I don't have to be so nice anymore, I'm taking the gloves off. Right? Yes?
I'll take the gloves off. Take the gloves off. Right? Taking the gloves off.
Just remember this, Trump is going to be no more Mr. Nice guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLTON: Let's get right to it shall we. CNN's Brianna Keiler with the Clinton campaign in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, Jeremy Diamond with the Trump campaign in Denver. Hello, to both you. Brianna, you first, what can you tell me about tonight, tonight about this new hack, this time with the Clinton campaign?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Don, we know the FBI and the Department of Justice are investigating this. We've learned from two law enforcement officials. Reuters first broke the story. We know have this confirmed.
And they're looking -- of course, that a week ago was the Democratic National Committee we learned had been hacked when WikiLeaks put out all of those e-mails about comm -- that had to do with communications between top official there.
We've also since learned that the D-CCC, that is the political arm of House democrats has been affected as well, and all of this bearing similarities is what we're hearing from officials. And they think all signs right now pointing towards hackers being in cahoots with Russian intelligence, which makes this especially alarming, Don.
LEMON: What is the campaign -- what's the response?
KEILAR: They have confirmed that this has happened. They put out a response this evening and what they're stressing and this gives as you little more insight into what's happening. They're stressing that this is a voter analytics database that all of these organizations are using.
So, they're sort of connected in a way. And they say they have outside cyber security experts who are looking at their internal systems. They say so far there's no indication that their internal communication systems have been breached. So, so far it does sound like this is ongoing, though. But they're saying so far no breach -- no breach there.
LEMON: All right. In the midst of all this there's still a new ticket there, this newly minted Clinton/Kaine ticket. How were they received on the campaign trail today?
KEILAR: Pretty well received today here in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. There was one heckler heckling Hillary Clinton about Wall Street and she's sort of used that to pivot and say maybe you're concerned about the economy like that man there.
He was a little more specific about Wall Street maybe not just the economy.
But what she's trying to do is actually get some support where her campaign feels she doesn't have enough and that is with white, working class voters.
You look at where she's going, Don, she's in Western Pennsylvania, she'll tomorrow head to Pittsburgh, on to Youngstown, Ohio. And you the polls in Ohio you see Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are neck and neck. There is a lot of worry that when it comes to white corking class voters Donald Trump has a lot of appeal. And this is an area where she wants to chip away at his margins.
LEMON: All right, Brianna. Let's go to Jeremy Diamond now with the Trump campaign. What's the Trump's campaign response to this hacking, Jeremy?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Well, over my shoulder, you can see Donald Trump is speaking to his supporters here in Denver. He has not himself addressed the hacking yet. But we do have a statement from his senior communications adviser, Jason Miller who says, "This seems to be a problem wherever Hillary Clinton goes. Hopefully this time there wasn't classified or top secret information that puts American lives at risk."
Of course that's the campaign making illusion to Hillary Clinton having classified information on her private e-mail server during her time as a secretary of state. Something that the Trump campaign is using it as an opportunity to bring up this treason and hacking.
[22:04:59] LEMON: So, Jeremy, Trump responded to Secretary Clinton's acceptance speech today. What did he say? I'm sure there's a lot.
DIAMOND: That's right. We saw Donald Trump earlier at another stop in Colorado, in Colorado Springs. Donald Trump was addressing Hillary Clinton's criticism. He started off mad and he got madder as he went on.
First he talked about the fact that he expected Hillary Clinton to essentially praise him and congratulate him over his victories and eventually he went full on assault on her, as you can see in this clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You know what? I've been saying -- I've been saying let's just beat her on November 8th but you know what, you know what, I'm starting to agree with you. I tell you. Sorry. Sorry to say this.
You know, it's interesting. Every time I mention her, everybody screams "lock her up, lock her up, lock her up," they keep screaming. And you know what I do? I've been nice. But after watching that performance last night, such lies, I don't have to be so nice anymore. I'm taking the gloves off, right? Yes? Take the gloves off. Take the gloves off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIAMONG: So, Donald Trump, of course, right here actually went back to his old line, which was listen, we're just going to beat her in November, that's what we're going to do. But of course that was interesting, Donald Trump saying he agrees to his supporters chanting to "lock her up."
Of course, back in June, Donald Trump himself said he believes Hillary Clinton should go to jail. Don?
LEMON: All right. Thank you, Jeremy. Thank you, Brianna. I want to get now to CNN's Elise Labott.
Elise, what are you learning tonight, exactly what was hacked, and who was the culprit here, do we know?
ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, as we've been saying, all signs point to Russia. Because this is believed, Don, to be all of these hacks that we've seen of the Democratic Party over the last few days, the Democratic National Committee, the House Democratic campaign arm, the DCCC.
And now the Clinton campaign, they all seem to be the work of these same hackers that are traced back to Russian intelligence and that's cyber security firms and the FBI that have been working on this say they seem to be all similar.
And this just could be really the tip of the iceberg, FBI officials, law enforcement officials are telling our Evan Perez, that they feel that these Russian hackers have targeted a whole series, Don, of political entities, private companies tied to the Democratic Party.
Now, of course, the motive is really uncertain. If you connect some of the dots right now and certainly with everything that Donald Trump has been saying favorably about Russia, one would think that this is to influence the election in favor of Donald Trump.
But these hacks go back about 18 months, even before Donald Trump was really the democratic front-runner, so it's possible the Russians intelligence started doing this as a fishing expedition, you know, a lot of countries are all spying on each other, and then they found this target of opportunity. But certainly the fingerprints certainly seem to be Russian right now.
LEMON: Elise, I don't know if you saw AC360 just moments ago, here's is what Julian Assange, and Anderson interviewed Julian Assange. Here's what he said. He said, Assange said this, "We have more material related to Hillary Clinton campaign, to the Clinton campaign. That is to say to say that those who are extremely interesting we will see what will come of it in due course."
What's your reaction to that, Elise?
LABOTT: Well, let's be clear. Julian Assange has made no bones about the fact that he has an intense dislike for Hillary Clinton and he has said over the past year or so that he wanted to ruin her, that he wanted to leak information, that he had information about her that could be damaging and he planned to leak it when he said the time is right.
And so, we really don't know what he has and what's going to be coming, but certainly we don't think this is the end. But I will say that talking to U.S. officials, there's a growing interest in the ties between Russia and WikiLeaks.
A lot of people right now obviously focused on Donald Trump, but if you look back to the Edward Snowden affair, he sought asylum in Russia after the WikiLeaks of all those State Department and other cables, you also have Julian Assange working for RT, the Russian propaganda arm Julian Assange has spoken very favorably in Russia -- about Russia over the last few years.
And so, officials are wondering if there are any more connections to Russia and WikiLeaks. As we said, Don, all countries spy on each other, they try to get out information but U.S. officials feel that this has really crossed a line in terms of publishing that information. And so they're going to be looking at those very closely.
LEMON: I feel like I'm watching a movie here. I'm sure I'm going to discuss with my family.
LABOTT: Certainly seeing like that.
LEMON: Elise Labott, thank you. Have a good weekend. I appreciate you joining us this evening.
I want to bring in Andre Bauer, former Lieutenant Governor of South Carolina and a Trump supporter, also CNN political commentator Bob Beckel, and Alice Stewart, the former communications director for Ted Cruz.
[22:10:07] Everybody recovered yet from the past two weeks?
BOB BECKEL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No.
LEMON: My goodness. Here we are back in the cozy confinement of the studio. But listen, Bob, I mean, again, as I said, this sounds like a movie. Is this -- is this real? Is this bad for the Clinton campaign or is this another thing that unfolding?
BECKEL: I don't think it's bad for her at all. In fact, I think it's bad for Trump. CNN did a report earlier today about Trump's connection with the Soviets and with Putin and with the Russians, rather, with Putin particularly.
After he won he said he had a relationship with Putin, if you remember he said that about four, five months ago. Now they're walking that back because he's never met Putin. They also know he has money from Russia going into those projects here. And I just want to say one thing about Assange, he's a traitor. That simple, he's a traitor and I don't pay anything he says.
LEMON: Because he seems to have evident for Hillary Clinton, right?
BECKEL: But he's a traitor. A traitor.
LEMON: Yes. The Trump campaign already jumping on today's attack. And he's saying this, "This seems to be a problem wherever Hillary Clinton goes." Why is this Hillary Clinton's fault?
BECKEL: That's a good question. I want to know when Donald Trump ever had the gloves whether he had them on.
LEMON: Yes. Can we please play that sound bite...
BECKEL: Yes, please. Do that.
LEMON: Please replay Donald Trump tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You know what? I've been saying -- I've been saying let's just beat her on November. But you know what? Well, no. You know what? I'm starting to agree with you. I tell you. I'm tired -- I'm tired with this.
You know, it's interesting, every time I mention her, everyone screams "lock her up, lock her up, lock her up." They keep screaming. And you know what I do? I've been nice. But after watching that performance last night, such lies. I don't have to be so nice anymore. I'm taking the gloves off, right? Yes.
Yes? Take the gloves off. Take the gloves. Right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. So, I mean, you know, he's saying it's her fault that she at "lock her up," he's going to take the gloves off. I mean, what do you -- what do you think of that?
ANDRE BAUER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: First off, I don't want to laugh at one comment but as an American, I'm concerned that anybody's information could be out there.
BAUER: Now I'm told that the Russians actually if they want to get in there, they can get in there without us even knowing about it, they're that sophisticated. But nonetheless, if they're getting in there and letting us know about it -- are they trying -- you know, who knows what they're to accomplish.
LEMON: I think Julian Assange said that the DNC and the RNC, I mean, they have Swiss cheese as security, right? So, you know, the RNC is vulnerable. I'm sure Donald Trump is vulnerable, his company. We all are vulnerable. And if we get hacked, is that really our fault?
BAUER: I don't believe it is. We won't have, I would think all of us want to try to get the strongest protection we can. Maybe that's who ought to be advertising on your show from now on.
BECKEL: All I can say is I hope to God they don't hack me. That would be very dangerous. But, you know, it's interesting that -- right
LEMON: We don't want to forget about Alice. Let me let Alice get in here. Because, Alice, you know, Trump followed up just a little while ago with a tweet saying "Hillary Clinton should not be given national security briefings in that she is a loose cannon with extraordinarily bad judgment and instincts."
There are concerns about both of them getting security briefings, Alice, but, I mean, they will be getting them. What do you make of that?
ALICE STEWART, TED CRUZ NATIONAL SPOKESWOMAN: Well, certainly. And this goes back to the FBI probe of Hillary Clinton's e-mails. And look, the day after the DNC convention, this is the last thing they want to be talking about, Hillary Clinton and her new running mate are out campaigning, trying to lure in new voters and show them as the new unified ticket for the Democratic Party.
And here they are there are still conversations about e-mails. And I believe Jason Miller is right, the spokesman from that campaign and that, you know, this just once again brings up questions about Hillary Clinton and her history with e-mails.
While she was cleared and no charges were filed with the FBI probe, the FBI still found that there were some irresponsible behavior and it has raised questions. And this is certainly a bad time...
BECKEL: Alice, aren't those apples and oranges a little bit?
LEMON: Yes, what is that? I mean, what...
LEMON: Is that the same thing? Is that apples and oranges one has to do with a private server that, you know, is the FBI, whatever they found, what you said. And the other one has to do with a foreign government possibly hacking the DNC. How are the two related?
STEWART: Well, we're still talking about e-mails that are tied with Hillary Clinton. And while some people may say the two as not connected, it's still the same topic of conversation where there are questions and possibly more questions being raised.
And look, I agree with the comment before, a lot of these begin as fishing expeditions and they throw out a wide net, but who knows what we'll find down the road. But as I said this topic is not something that the democrats want to be talking about at a time when they should be unifying behind the ticket and after this convention...
[22:15:03] LEMON: Bob?
STEWART: ... where we have a lot of boos in her speeches last night, they need to be working to rally democrats and not talking about e- mail.
LEMON: Bob, that is true. I mean, they don't want to -- the last thing democrats want to be talking about is e-mails. And by the way, the boos in the speeches were from like it 20 people. I was there in the audience, some 20 people from the Bernie Sanders campaign when the California campaign, now what is about...
BECKEL: Well, you know, it's true, they don't want to talking about e- mails but when you take like Alice does and put them all together and indict Hillary Clinton, look...
LEMON: Yes. But you would do the same thing, wouldn't you?
BECKEL: No, we wouldn't. I didn't say. I absolutely not. But, you know, the one thing is coming out of this whole thing we're not paying attention to is the relationship between Trump and the Russians.
You know, the republican platform watered down tough language about Ukraine and Crimea, and then when Trump was asked about the question, he didn't -- he dodge it. He said we have to talk about that later.
And now you're beginning to see the Trump's relationship with the Russians, the money and now what happens in the republican platform, I think there's a growing story here that has a lot to do with Trump's conspiring with the Russians, let me put it that way.
BAUER: But, Don, we can loop the Clintons back in with the Russians, too. I mean, Putin gave Bill a personal phone call, they took speaking fees. I mean, you know, we can all try to connect dots. And I don't think the average American...
LEMON: Let me ask you this, if the RNC was being hacked, right, do you think that they'd be saying -- the democrats would be saying, well, that's because of the Clinton's ties with Russians.
BAUER: I think -- I think both sides are going to jump on it if they have the opportunity.
BAUER: The scariest thing as an American, I worry about our security and what information we might have.
LEMON: That was a question to you. What if Paul Ryan's office...
BAUER: This is above politics. LEMON: Paul Ryan's office called it a global menace led by a devious thug, right, talking about the Russian government interfering with our democratic presence and meddling in our election. We should all be concerned about that, regardless of our party.
BAUER: And as an American I'm more concerned about the safety of the people in this country more than anything.
LEMON: Stick around, everyone. We're going to come right back. And when we come back, the conventions are over and race is on. Is this campaign going to get even nastier?
[22:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Hillary Clinton and Donald trump wasting no time getting out in the campaign trail today and taking aim at each other.
Back with me now, Andre Bauer, the -- and also Bob Beckel and Alice Stewart.
So, listen, Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine out on the campaign trail tonight, Trump says the gloves are off. We heard it earlier. So, is the Clinton campaign ready for what's coming, Bob, do you think?
BECKEL: Oh, yes. I think they're ready and they also have a deep bench. I mean, you know, you need to get out. You have Barack Obama out there, Bill Clinton, Kaine. I mean, we haven't heard a thing about Pence in the last week as far as I know.
And what Trump is trying to do is carry this negative campaign on his own shoulders which is dangerous as a candidate for president. But he doesn't have anybody to stand up there with him. There's no majority leader of the Senate, there's no speaker of the house are not invoke with him or taking the back seat now.
So, Trump's got to carry this on his own or his kids. And I just don't -- or frankly it's a third rate supporters in this. But I think it's going to catch up to him. I really do.
LEMON: Wow, Bob. And that -- that was shade and he is sitting right next to you. Third grade supporter? I mean, i is, it is a bit dangerous because the people in his campaign, and I'm sure you would like him to pivot and be a little bit more serious. Am I putting words in your mouth?
BAUER: Absolutely now. I would like to see them drive home the message of improving the economy, the government's too big, the government is a problem, it's a cesspool in Washington, we need to get all the bombs out because that's where the people all. It's a boiling point and I don't like to see the DVR. I would rather not see him get into it really with her. But I'm not really...
LEMON: But he says he's going to take the gloves off. Will you? BAUER: Gosh, I can't imagine what else he's going to do.
LEMON: Alice, is it dangerous for him to do that in general. It worked for him very well in, you know, in the primaries, but in the general where he said I'm going to take the gloves off, do you think that's smart assessment or smart way to go?
STEWART: No, look, I think a lot of times what he'll do is say look, what I've down to this point has worked, I'm going to continue to do the same thing. But we're in a different ball game now.
Having been on the receiving end of a lot of those punches that he's been throwing on the Cruz campaign, it worked for him but at this stage of the game now that he has a running mate, that's the beauty of having a running mate.
I agree with Bob 100 percent. And that's why you have the new people on the ticket. Let Pence do some of this aggressive campaigning and let Donald Trump should be focusing on the issue, driving his message of what he exactly plans to o do to make America great again.
Because we're talking about a larger audience. It's not just bringing in the base. He needs to drive in the independents and people that ordinarily wouldn't be on his team and you cannot do that by being negative all the time. And that's why he needs to bring in other people to throw some of those punches.
LEMON: Andre, I know you want to jump in. But I think this goes along with what your response is going to be. Because a lot of republicans said that this time around it was the democratic convention that was sunny and optimistic and America sort of loving tone.
And then that has won the republicans the election before when it's like, you know, America, America, America. Does he stand the risk of alienating some voters with the negativity if he continues to go that way.
BAUER: Well, there always is that risk. But, you know, the question is now can he hold folks he's got. And can he get to those blue collar workers. I mean, that's really he's those for half states, can he get in there.
And I think most of the folks were talking about, they don't care if he takes the gloves off or not. They are the kind of guys that are they have their knuckles busted up. They're hardworking, they're labor people that, you know, they like that. That's not something that would bother them. The question is, which camp can more effectively get out there.
LEMON: He already has those voters, right?
BAUER: Well, no, they're still battling over the blue collar and he's right. The bench is deep for the democrats. They have some phenomenal people. Bill Clinton is as good as it gets. He's masterful. And so, I would have him out on the trail, meeting those workers, I'd have him shaking hands at factories. I mean, he is -- he is masterful... (CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Joe Biden, a middle class show isn't he the guy to do that.
BAUER: I still don't think he is as good as Bill, you know.
BECKEL: Sure. As I said it's a deep bench, they can go to a lot of factories. But the reality of this thing is that if you start going -- Hillary Clinton is trying to make this a referendum on Donald Trump. And that's the right thing to do because the referendum on her is not a good idea.
And frankly, if anybody would but her right now with their negatives where they are, Trump would be beaten badly. And by the way, there are not enough blue collar or white voters to turn this thing for Trump. It doesn't. It's a myth.
And we polled blue collar Ohio, independents and republicans and democrats in focus groups over the last week and went in 20 to 5 against Hillary, it came out exactly the reverse after this convention.
[22:25:04] So, there is a lot for her to move and not much room for Trump to move.
BAUER: Well, I disagree. Number one he's got to be able to turn out the minority votes like Barack gave what she's going to struggle with. She's just not going to be able to turn them out. I don't like he did.
And then when you pivot and you say what's left out there to get. I think he has a better chance. People are frustrated. They're fed up with Washington. I think this goes above party. I think people are so at a boiling point. They want to turn of -- they want the ox out of the ditch and Trump is saying stuff that actually they hadn't heard before.
LEMON: When we come right back, Hillary Clinton says she gets it, she gets it. People don't know what to make of her, but can she get voters to trust her.
LEMON: We've been discussing here on CNN Tonight. The FBI and the Justice Department are investigating hacking, the hacking of Hillary Clinton's campaign. Exactly the kind of news the candidate doesn't need right now.
Here to discuss all of that is Nicholas Kristof, the columnist for the New York Times, republican consultant, Margaret Hoover, and CNN presidential historian, Douglas Brinkley, author of "Rightful Heritage: Franklin D. Roosevelt and the Land of America."
[22:30:00] I'm so happy to have all of you here this evening. Post-two weeks. We're still standing. (CROSSTALK)
MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, my God.
LEMON: Nicholas, I want to go to you. Secretary Clinton can't escape this topic of e-mails. We started talking about the DNC e-mail hack. Ended up a week talking about, you know, a possible hack at the Clinton campaign now. What do you think could be in the air in this election?
NICHOLAS KRISTOF, NEW YORK TIMES COLUMNIST: Well, at the end of the day talk of e-mails isn't great for Secretary Clinton. Now they had to talk Russia isn't great for Donald trump. You know, these are problematic issues for both of them.
LEMON: Can it alter the outcome of the election with this?
KRISTOF: Well, let's see where the Russia thing goes. I think we're going to learn more in the coming days to the degree in which Russia intruded into various systems and the degree to which they then passed information on to WikiLeaks.
We may also learn more about what level of the GRU, the Russian military intelligence organizations made these decisions and maybe better inside into what their motivation was, whether is just to create chaos or whether it was actually to advantage Trump.
LEMON: Douglas Brinkley, I want to get your reaction to this passage. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now sometimes -- sometimes the people at this podium are new to the national stage. As you know, I'm not one of those people.
I've been your first lady, served eight years as a senator from the great State of New York.
Then I represented -- then I represented all of you as secretary of state.
But my job titles only tell you what I've done. They don't tell you why. The truth is through all these years of public service, the service part has always come easier to me than the public part. I get it, that some people just don't know what to make of me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, she then went on and described her grandparents, her parents and gave a point by point account of her accomplishments. She's trying to get people to say, hey, you know, you can trust me here.
But my question is when you hear about all of this hacking of the DNC and possibly, you know, connected to the campaign, does that undermine that message that she gave last night?
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: I don't think so at all. When I just listened to that, Don, I recall 47 years ago she was on the cover of Life magazine. It's 47 years she's been in the mix in one way or another. And suddenly she left off there she ran for president in 2008 and lost.
But this e-mail -- any time the word e-mail or FBI or hacking is raised, I don't think it helps Hillary Clinton. But on the other hand, she's not the one cozying up to Russia, Donald Trump is.
And if we -- I do agree this is a very important national security moment. It turns out Russia is meddling in American domestic affairs in this kind of way. I don't think it hurts Hillary Clinton unless there's some smoking gun e-mail that comes off and does damage to her. It really makes one question why Trump is refusing to denounce Putin and recognize Russia for what they are, a nefarious enemy of our country.
LEMON: Same question to you, Margaret. Do you think that, you know, she had a good message last night. Does all of this undermine that at all?
HOOVER: Look, the hit against Hillary Clinton is her trustworthiness numbers and no one speech can fix any one personal characteristic that isn't strong or stellar for a candidate. No, I mean, it didn't do anything.
But I think the convention as a whole over the course of three days was a very powerful speeches and a very powerful narrative did help build this news story about a woman who has served other people her whole life in stark contrast to the person that she's running against.
It's worth noting though, as we talk about trustworthiness and how important that is, the assumption is that if somebody is not trustworthy, voters won't vote for them. And that is actually not true. I mean, many political scientists, data scientist have actually looked at this and oftentimes somebody's personal characteristics have nothing to do with whether people vote for them or not.
Remember Bill Clinton in the 90s,like people actually like him personally but didn't think he was...
LEMON: But that's what's happening now with the president now, right?
HOOVER: Right. So, they are linking, right.
LEMON: People like him but they're not, you know, they feel like they're not as -- the economy is not great. They're not doing well as they should do. HOOVER: Whether people vote for somebody or not often is not linked
to likability. Often it has much more to do with national condition.
LEMON: You said that voters might not trust her motives but they might trust her steadiness over his steadiness.
HOOVER: Or his competence or her capability or I mean, this is also part of the narrative that they're trying to continue to push, right? And unforeseen events that will happen over the next 102 days will determine how she stacks up. But I think we're looking at a number now that probably will have less bearing when it comes to the final stages of the campaign.
[22:35:06] LEMON: I think that's a very smart assessment. Go ahead.
KRISTOF: Yes. I mean, I think Hillary Clinton is trying to do exactly what Margaret is saying to focus not on issue especially than it's been diverted to issue of competence. And on that level the people decide on competence then she'll win votes. I must say, though, that when she's got a 68 percent of the population is saying that they don't trust her...
LEMON: That's a tough road to hoe, right?
KRISTOF: Yes. When so many more people say they don't trust Hillary Clinton than Donald Trump, even though by every metric of truthfulness Trump is far or less threefold than she is. Then, you know, it seems to me that it might have made sense for her to try to address this head on in her speech when she has at times showed, you know, some of her solo in the 18 million crack speech, for example.
You know, it has gone over with voters. I think if she heard just a little bit of her in that way, that might have held on that issue.
LEMON: It's interesting. I have to get to a break. I want to discuss this on the other side but it's interesting because when you had people going over her resume, you're like, my goodness, this is an accomplished -- this woman is so accomplished.
But yet still, you know, this man who has never really had anything to do with politics, they're still neck and neck. It's unbelievable. What's going on here? We'll discuss right after this. Don't go anywhere.
[22:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Hillary Clinton's speech last night was not just for the party faithful. She was hoping to make her case to independent voters, too.
Back with me now, Nicholas Kristof Margaret Hoover, and Douglas Brinkley.
Doug, I want to play this for you. This is another portion of her speech and then we'll talk. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: With your help, I will carry all of your voices and story with me to the White House.
And you heard -- you heard from republicans and independents who are supporting our campaign. Well, I will be a president for democrats, republicans, independents, for the struggling, the striving, the successful, for all those who vote for me and for those who don't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. So, you heard from republicans and democrats who are supporting our campaign, she says. She said right there. Michael Bloomberg was one of the heaviest hitters against Trump to talk about her record against his record. If she a so accomplished, why isn't she still liked?
BRINKLEY: Well, look, I thought Hillary Clinton not only gave, Don, a wonderful speech but all week she got people working on her behalf. I mean, to have the president of the United States call trump a home grown demagogue, you have Joe Biden, you know, say people that are decent don't enjoy firing people, to have Bloomberg come in and talk about Donald Trump being a con.
She had a lot of people do her negative speech for her so she was able to kind of come off last night as being fairly optimistic, even though she made some jabs at Donald Trump.
Look, I think Barack Obama said it back in 2008. You're likable enough. Hillary Clinton has had a problem with being a wonk, with being the baggage of Bill Clinton, she's never been a beloved political figure, so she's trying to remind people of her competence. And I think she got that across last night as well as she could have hoped for.
LEMON: Margaret, you said there's no questions about her qualifications but.
HOOVER: Yes. I completely agree with Doug in so far as she's never been known for her likability. Certainly nobody questions her competence but her likability is, as she knows, everybody acknowledges the challenging part. I mean, I chuckle because she almost couldn't have picked a better candidate to run against.
Donald Trump is somebody who for in the key demographic groups, that he will have to win in order to beat her.
HOOVER: Women, minorities. You know, single women, you know, Hispanics, Asian-American. He is not likable. There's just nothing likable about what he says or the way he's approached these issues. And so for being an unlikable candidate, she couldn't have had a better sort of caricature to run against.
LEMON: But he questions her competence every day. He said, you know, there's no question of competence.
LEMON: But every single moment he questions it.
KRISTOF: And, you know, there's a fascinating social science research element here that with men, there is no tradeoff between competence and likability. There abundant research showing that for women in contrast, you are either perceived as competent or you're perceived as likable, but it's very hard to be perceived at both.
And so, I think in that speech she was trying to kind of thread a needle emphasizing her competence without diminishing her likability rating but it's a very tough road to hoe.
LEMON: Go ahead, Douglas.
BRINKLEY: I believe with that completely. I mean, she pulled off almost a miracle last night. I do think for particularly having Chelsea there, hugging her, reminding people she's a mother, reminding the people she's a grandmother, and kind of made people very warm about her the best she -- the best I've seen her coming off and then I think she must glad of picking Tim Kaine.
Today they're effectively campaigning in Pennsylvania and Ohio, and I think she's going to get a bounce out of all this. She's also created a new category, Clinton republicans.
A number, I noticed, in the republican convention was where was Mitt Romney? Where is George W. Bush? Many republicans want nothing to do with Donald Trump and they may end up reluctantly voting for Hillary Clinton just like Ronald Reagan had created Reagan democrats back in 1980.
LEMON: Doug, do you think that's -- do you think that's a real thing, a Clinton republican like a Reagan democrat?
BRINKLEY; Yes, I do think that's a real thing, Don. Because all the leading establishment republicans I know just can't vote for Donald Trump. So they're going to have to do a write-in or they're going to have to warm themselves up to Hillary Clinton or go third party.
And in the end I think the most leading republicans will care about NATO, are going to care about international affairs and feel Trump is just too dangerous.
So, you are going to have the establishment republicans moving I think towards Hillary Clinton reluctantly and hoping she only serves one term.
[22:45:02] LEMON: I'm getting a lot of head nods here from...
HOOVER: Well, I mean, look, if you were at the republican convention, did you see a single republican of note, of stature, who had been elected from multiple terms and who represents what they hope would be the future of the party r at least a party that could win in national elections, no.
HOOVER: They were not there. Giuliani is not running for anything again nor has he for eight years. I mean, people who are currently elected and care about the future and will continue to be part of the future of the Republican Party in the event that Donald Trump loses disastrously.
KRISTOF: I would add I think that's particularly an issue with foreign affairs, that I think there's a sense that Trump to some degree would be constrained by Congress domestically, internationally he would not be.
And he essentially is proposing to dismantle 70 years of bipartisan consensus on international security order by undermining NATO for example. I think that that, you know, that is not initiated it's going to lose him votes in a lot of places around the country. It has lost him much of the republican internationally minded establishment.
LEMON: Nicholas, Margaret, Douglas, thank you very much. I appreciate it.
KRISTOF: Good to be with you.
LEMON: When we come right back, the must-see moments from the conventions. What the candidates said in their speeches and what they really meant.
[22:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: There are lots of must-see moments at the republican and democratic conventions but what were the best lines of the past two weeks?
Here to discuss Craig Smith, the author of "Confessions of a Presidential Speechwriter," and David Litt, a former speechwriter for President Barack Obama. My gosh, I can't believe it's been two weeks. It seems like a month.
DAVID LITT, FORMER BARACK OBAMA'S SPEECHWRITER: We're in like dog years.
LEMON: Yu told what -- I would say you told me but you actually told my producers your three greatest moments from the convention. So, we put them all together. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA PRESIDENT: We don't look to be ruled
(APPLAUSE) Our power -- our power comes from those immortal declarations first put to paper right here in Philadelphia all those years ago.
KHIZR KHAN, FATHER OF DECEASED MUSLIM U.S. SOLDIER: Let me ask you have you even read the United States Constitution?
I will -- I will gladly lend you my copy.
CLINTON: A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. So, why don't we start with President Obama, right? Saying that we don't want to be ruled. That's a direct hit at Donald Trump, right?
LITT: Yes, it's a direct...
LEMON: What is he saying?
LITT: I think that was the moment when the convention pivoted from unifying the party and saying democrats should vote for Hillary Clinton to saying this is not just about democrats, this is a convention about America, this is a race that is about democracy.
And that was a moment where we elevated above the issues that were dividing us and saying, OK, this is so much bigger than any of that, that's something President Obama has always done very well.
LEMON: So, Khizr Khan, Humayun Khan was his son who died, you can't write that. I mean, how much of it is about writing and performing or just decency and what comes from your heart.
LITT: Well, I think it's both. I think when a speechwriter is working with someone who is not a professional politician, it's taking what they're already thinking what they're already saying and helping edit it down.
And I imagine that, you know, that is something that I'm sure he's been wanting to say personally for a long time and it was this remarkable reversal where trump's Muslim ban sometimes -- suddenly became about this question of is Donald Trump, does he understand America, not do Muslim Americans understand America. It's just a remarkable moment.
LEMON: You were on the floor as was I.
LEMON: It played really well. LITT: Oh, my God. I mean, you know, the other thing is it was so
surprising in so many ways, who this person was, what he was saying and then the surprise of him pulling the Constitution from his pocket and saying, you know, "I'll gladly lend you my copy," and that all of that combined with the rhetoric and the message came together. It was just a really, it was a special moment.
LEMON: David, let's talk about this line that got lots of applause, thunderous applause last night from Hillary Clinton, "a man who can bait you can bait with a tweet isn't a man you can trust with nuclear weapons."
We saw Trump come out today provoked, defending some of his more inflammatory statements. Was that meant to speak to him as well as to the voting public?
LITT: Well, I think it was...
LEMON: That's for Dave. Oh, sorry, for Craig. I want Craig to answer that.
CRAIG SMITH, "CONFESSIONS OF A PRSIDENTIAL SPEECHWRITER" AUTHOR: Well, I think so. And it was remarkable in that it was such a contrast to the republican convention where you didn't see that kind of minority appeal.
The Republican Party, on the other hand, the republican convention I thought was kind of interesting in the way in which there weren't very many good speeches until you got to Trump, and then he gave a very good speech.
And it was highlighted by the fact that he didn't have a very high bar to meet, compared with Hillary Clinton, who had a very high bar to meet compared to the speeches that came before she spoke.
So, things kind of mixed up in terms of whether you are going to have a good convention or a bad convention in terms of setting up your acceptance speech, which is the most memorable moments at the convention.
LEMON: Yes. You were shaking your head talking about the bar, David. Did you think that Hillary Clinton had a higher bar to meet than Donald Trump?
LITT: Well, I think in the sense that she hadn't had a disaster of a convention before that moment, yes, she did have a higher bar. And I do think that expectations for Donald Trump were low. I mean, he's not somebody known for giving a speech where he can stick to a prompter.
I do think that for Hillary Clinton no one thinks that she is a speaker on that level of Bill Clinton or Barack Obama, so I do think the bar was also a little different for her than when President Obama came out to speak.
LEMON: OK. Craig, you gave your favorite lines from both candidates so let's play them now. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: There's too much inequality, too much social immobility. Too much paralysis in Washington. Standing here as my mother's daughter and my daughter's mother.
Way too many dreams die in the parking lots of banks.
[22:54:59] TRUMP: One more child to sacrifice on the order and on the altar of open borders. My opponent wants sanctuary cities.
But where was the sanctuary for Kate Steinly?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, Craig, you like Trump's closing lines. Tell me why.
SMITH: Well, the closing lines were terrific because every day of the convention had a theme. We're going to make America great again, we're going to make America strong again, we're going to make America secure again. And then the last lines of his speech said the same things.
So, that his speech culminated the convention and culminated his speech at the same time. This was the same strategy we used in 1988 for the George H.W. Bush convention. Every day we had a theme and then he repeated those themes in his acceptance speech.
And we went in to that convention in '88 10 points behind, we came out seven points ahead and never looked back. Trump did not get that big a bump but he got a bump according to CNN polls, and so I think the strategy worked very well.
LEMON: I have to get to a break but just give me a name, who do you think gave the best speech? Craig first.
SMITH: Who gave the best speech where?
LEMON: The best written speech at either convention.
SMITH: I think the Trump speech was well constructed but somebody needed to edit it down to 50 minutes.
LEMON: OK. David?
LITT: I think there were lots of good speeches but I think that moment with the Constitution is one that was so special and so unlike a politician, we'll be talking about it for a long time.
LEMON: Gentlemen, thank you very much. I appreciate you for coming in.
When we come right back, what Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are saying, what they're saying about each other on the campaign trail tonight. And why in spite of everything their daughters say, they're still friends.
[23:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)