Return to Transcripts main page
Hillary Clinton Takes Lead in Newest CNN Poll; Donald Trump Blasting Gold Star Family; Michael Bloomberg Questions Trump's Sanity; Trump-Endorsing "New York Post" Releases Racy Melania Photos. Aired 11p-12a ET
Aired August 1, 2016 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:34] DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Ninety-nine days until Election Day and this race just gets more unpredictable. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.
Donald Trump going where no candidates has gone before blasting the goals on father of a fallen Muslim American war hero and refusing to back down. In the midst of that battle, "The New York Post" the paper that endorsed Trump publishes some very racy nude photos of Melania Trump. Reportedly taken in 1995 for a French men's magazine, Donald Trump during (ph) the first, "In Europe pictures like these are very fashionable and common". But this isn't Europe. Then what will the voters think about this?
We're going to begin now with Hillary Clinton taking the lead over Donald Trump in the latest CNN poll. Our very own John King does the electoral math for us. John?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, Don, 52-43, a healthy lead for Secretary Clinton in the head to head match up against Donald Trump but as you know most Americans will have more choices. So, does it hold up in a four-way choice? The answer is yes, 45 percent for Secretary Clinton, 37 percent for Donald Trump. So an eight point lead there. The Libertarian Gary Johnson, The Green Party candidate, Jill Stein getting some support as well. But that's a healthy bounce even in a four-way race for Secretary Clinton.
One big reason for this, Independents after the Democratic convention swinging her way. 37 percent for Clinton, 33 percent for Trump, that's in the four-way race, you see the other two candidates. Remember, President Obama lost Independents by five points on Election Day 2012 to Mitt Romney. If Clinton can hold that lead over Donald Trump among Independents, she'll be very hard to beat. So watch that as we move forward.
The political pros always ask when both conventions are over. Who did a better job coalescing the party? Unifying the party? Well, advantage Democrats and Clinton. 90 percent of Democrats say as of today they planned to Clinton vote for their Democratic nominee. Only 78 percent of Republicans say they're going to vote for Donald Trump. So Hillary Clinton has done a better job unifying the party. That's an advantage as we go forward. Another reason she pulled ahead in this poll is that more and more voters are looking at her seeing a president, if you want to put it that way. Sixty seven to 31 and a question of who has the right experience to be President. A huge edge for Secretary Clinton. In a change environment, experience isn't always an asset. And that's a pretty lopsided lead.
More Americans, that's been number 45 percent to 30 percent, say they would be proud of Hillary Clinton as their president. More Americans, 48 percent to 33 percent over Trump think she would do a better job uniting the country. If there's a red flag in this poll, Don. It is this.
Only 34 percent of Americans say Hillary Clinton is honest and trustworthy. Her only benefit is about the same number for Donald Trump. Neither one of these candidates is viewed as honest and trustworthy. So, in a poll that is overwhelmingly for pro Clinton that honesty number does standout.
Now, it's a national poll. We elect presidents state by state. If you look deeper in our poll, remember Donald Trump's strategy, Pennsylvania, Ohio, maybe Michigan, he might be even need Wisconsin. It's across the Rust Belt.
In the Midwest right now. It's a tighter race. 39 percent to 37 percent in the Midwest, so even though there's a wind at Hillary Clinton's back in the national polls, when you go to the Electoral College. We're still going to slug it out a bit in the Midwest. Why does Donald Trump want to target these states? They're older and wider. Plays more to his advantage.
Among white voters, Don, their level of education says a lot about who you're going to pick for president. Among college graduates who are white, 49 percent to 38 percent and 11-point edge there for Secretary Clinton. But look at this number, white non-college graduates a lopsided lead for Donald Trump. So, you're level of education in this Rust Belt states, says a lot about who you're going to vote for.
Again, the headline, a big bounce for Hillary Clinton. If you look a little deeper, mostly advantages still looks like a little rock 'em sock 'em robots across the Rust Belt. Don?
LEMON: All right, John King. Thank you very much. We have now. I want to bring in the man who seen it all, when it come to politics is Dan Rather, he's a host of access TV's, "The Big Interview" and tonight he is my big interview.
Thank you for coming in here. Donald Trump just had a really bad couple of days. Here's how our latest wire to put it. By any conventional standard, Donald Trump just blundered through the worst three days of any presidential candidate in living memory. I know he's an unconventional candidate and candidates make mistakes. But have you ever seen anything like this?
DAN RATHER, HOST OF AXS TV'S, "THE BIG INTERVIEW": Never. But the operative phrase there is "Conventional Wisdom." Everything about Donald Trump rise has been countered to conventional wisdom. Each time he makes a major mistake, there's a tendency to thin, he's over the line. He's over the line so far with criticism of John McCain the first time he can criticized McCain. He was over the line with the criticism of the judge born in this country of Mexican Heritage.
Each time you say, surely his support will be peeled back, sometime is peel back a little week, comes bouncing right back.
[23:05:06] The best one can say is that nobody's ever seen a candidate like Donald Trump, plus or minus. Nobody's ever seen a campaign like this and it remains very volatile. I happen to believe that one of the most dangerous things for the Hillary Clinton campaign right now is seeing the polls jump up this way.
Polls in the middle of the summer, this stage, are virtually -- they're indicative of the moment. It was a long way to go and there's some tendency -- particularly with the candidates which Hillary Clinton who does not have the number of really urban, passionate followers. Let's say a Barrack Obama eventually had. It's very volatile. I've said for some time. You know I think Donald Trump can win. It's not to say that he will win. Actually I think he can win. I understand that a lot of people out there saying, how can you say that in the place of the way he treated the Khan family?
RATHER: This is a new low -- as comments about Gold Star families, a brand new low. But there doesn't seem to be any limit.
LEMON: You don't think this one will affect him? You know ...
RATHER: I do. I think, it's already affect. I think in the polls, one reason of polls have bounced Hillary's way.
RATHER: What I'm saying is be careful of concluding that's going to stand pre on November there just two was, too long to go.
LEMON: Speaking of Hillary Clinton let me play this for you. Because she said, she had no -- she doesn't know where the bottom is when it comes to Trump. Listen to this, Mr. Rather.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He has, throughout the course of his campaign, consistently insulted and demeaned individuals, groups of Americans, people around the world. And one doesn't know where the bottom is. It's hard to imagine anyone who has ever run to be president of the United States saying any of what he said. And the accumulation of it all is just beyond my comprehension.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Every other week or so, sometimes there are a couple in the week that the Republican Leadership has to come out and repudiate or try to explain or defend something that Donald Trump says. John McCain says he doesn't represent party, but is he permanently damaging the GOP, You think?
RATHER: Well, he's a wrecking ball at the -- for both empowered (ph) this year. And a lot of candidates down the ballot of congressional candidates, senatorial candidates are extremely worried. The question is going to be at what point do we reach the point that the candidates -- it's only such as John McCain, not only criticize Trump would say, I can't support him.
We haven't reached that point yet. We may not reach that point. But there's something to look for down the line if he keeps doing these things that just defy all political, what we thought were political laws of gravity. But I come back to the point that Donald Trump he has some cards in his hand not the least of which he preaches, I'll do something about immigration, I'll do something about the economic consequences of globalization of the economy, and what's happened in the Middle class. And he's campaigning on law and order. Those are three powerful issues.
LEMON: But he came out of the convention with that. But then with this whole thing with the Khan family, he stepped on it. And that's one of the reasons ...
RATHER: I just want to say, you know, you'd think he scored maybe the high on the dumb test. But each time he comes out of one of these things. He comes back. We'll see whether he can this time.
RATHER: This could be the most damaging of the ...
LEMON: Yeah. Especially, what do you mean a Gold Star family? That's, you know, but usually that's beyond reproach. As I've heard most people say, if a family of a war hero, someone who's died in war, they criticize you, you take it and keep moving. You don't respond to them. You just ...
RATHER: No, absolutely he shout on one of the spokesmen on your program, or one pro-Trump person, he said, look, Donald Trump made a mistake, he made a blunder then went on to try to say positive things about Trump. But I think my any reasonable standard. It would be hard to find an American, even though a very avid Trump supporter, who thought it was acceptable ...
RATHER: ... to talk that way about a Gold Star family.
LEMON: But one thing that's not -- that's still pretty -- battleground state is Trump was in Ohio, Hillary Clinton to the -- and Pennsylvania, and Hillary Clinton, let's see, in Pennsylvania thss evening. Hillary Clinton was in those same states. So, this is really about battleground states. They still need that as John King was showing us. They need to make headway on that Electoral map. It's not just about popularity.
RATHER: Exactly. And one of these two candidates, keep in mind, both of them have the highest negatives combined for any two major party candidates in the history that a Presidential elections. Their negatives are above 50. It's about five states, Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Ohio. And if you had to pick one, you would say Florida.
LEMON: That's because they expect of that -- what were you saying? Yeah. You would say Florida.
RATHER: This my (inaudible) big vote Florida, Virginia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Ohio.
[23:10:03] LEMON: Ohio, New Hampshire, Iowa. Yeah. And you said Florida was the most important one out that, and you think?
RATHER: I do. It's my opinion here in the middle of the summer.
RATHER: That the candidate who wins Florida would probably win this election.
LEMON: Let's talk about the Trump and about Russia and Ukraine. This is an interview that he did with ABC over the weekend, and then we'll talk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: OK? Just so you understand. He's not going to go into Ukraine. You can mark it down, you can put it down. You can take it anyway you want.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC HOST: He's already there, isn't he?
TRUMP: Well, he's there in a certain way but I'm not there yet, you have Obama there. And frankly that whole part of the world is a mess under Obama
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So, he's on the campaign trail today telling a slightly different story. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: So when I said, believe me, Russia's not going into Ukraine. All right. They're not going into Ukraine. The person said, but they're already in Ukraine. I said, yeah, well that was two years ago. That's, I mean, if you want to go Back. You want to have World War III to get it back? That was during Obama's watch. So during Obama's watch, you know, all the tough guy Statements, right? So he talks About Donald Trump is not strong on Russia.
First of all, I have to say this. Wouldn't it be great if we actually got along with Russia? Am I wrong in saying that? Wouldn't it be great? OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That's not exactly what he said originally. I mean ...
RATHER: Well, he's confounding. But we ...
LEMON: Does he know enough about this issue?
RATHER: No. Obviously he doesn't. But he has people in his campaign staff, who is his main campaign manager now, is deeply involved with Russia and Ukraine. But what happens with Donald Trump, at time in a time after time. He comes up with these statements. He either tries to deny them or adjust them. But one, very few presidential elections are won or lost on the issue of foreign Policy.
Number two, we talked before, Trump is seemingly, he can make more mistakes than Yogi Berra according to Shakespeare. But each time he makes a mistake. He goes down for a bit and he comes back. And he hasn't fully unloaded yet on Hillary Clinton.
So, you know, I find this confounding. I think most people do. But I will say among those solid Trump supporters who say, I'm worried about the economy, I'm worried about law and order, I'm worried about immigration, these kinds of things just pass them over.
Now, in the battle to get Independents and swing voters in the key states which you mentioned before, it could be the Donald trump is losing really valuable ground and will not be able to get that ground back with that section of voters.
RATHER: White males and white females, both of whom voted in high percentages over 50 percent for Mitt Romney. Obviously Trump's whole plan here is to increase the percentage of those votes he gets and increase turnout. That's what his campaign is about, and when you get down to saying listen, his campaign manager's, quote, embedded with the Russian leadership with Putin and so forth.
You and I care about it. They're in number of Americans who do care about it and follow. But most in the people who say and vote for Trump, but they say, listen. He's a guy who tells it like it is "maybe". Maybe doesn't know all about foreign policy because you know what. I don't give a plan hoot.
LEMON: Yeah. Always a pleasure.
RATHER: Always good to see you Don.
LEMON: Thank you sir.
RATHER: Thank you.
LEMON: When we come right back, Will Donald Trump's feud with the Gold Star Khan family cost him votes in November? We'll discuss.
[23:17:09] LEMON: Donald Trump doubling down on his criticism of a Gold Star family, the Khans. I spoke to Khizr Khan just a little while ago. Here's what he says about Trump's rhetoric and his views.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KHIZR KHAN, FATHER OF FALLEN MUSLIM AMERICAN SOLDIER: This is his dangerous political rhetoric that when I speak about Mr. Trump's disqualification as candidate for the presidency, he says, "Oh, I am being severely attacked, harshly attacked." Well, this is political season. You're a candidate for an office. And I have same rights as you do. You can attack Mitt Romney, you can attack John McCain, you can attack Ted Cruz, you can attack Jeb Bush, you can attack women, you can attack minorities, you can attack Muslims, you can attack judges and nobody can question your caliber? Your leg of empathy and you want to be commander-in-chief?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Here to discuss all of this is Dean Obeidallah, a columnist for the "Daily Beast" and CNN Political Commentator Kayleigh McEnany, a Trump supporter.
Dean, welcome to both of you. Dean, you had said you didn't think it's possible for Trump to say anything more despicable than he already said on the campaign trail until this weekend. Do you think this is different this time?
DEAN OBEIDALLAH, COLUMNIST, THE DAILY BEAST: I mean, he'll probably do something next week which surpasses this. The comments about Mr. Khan and his wife to me were so indefensible, they're beyond anything. But there is a silver lining in all of this. And you know, as we get away from the politics of this, Donald Trump has brought up something most Americans didn't know because of attack on the Khan family that Muslim-Americans are serving the military, that they have sacrificed for our country and brought up even more of a discussion that Muslims have served in the military since the revolutionary war with George Washington, Peter Buckminster, famously always through to now.
And the outpouring of support for the Khan family from Republicans, Democrats, from nonpartisan groups like this VFW. Who would have thought Muslims today in this country now, who were being demonized, would have all these people standing for us? The silver lining in all of this? Donald Trump, despicable but the result was beautiful.
LEMON: You say indefensible but I mean, how to you defend the statements against the Khans?
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I don't. Donald Trump made a clear mistake here, when he made the comment about Khan's wife. You know, Captain Khan is an absolute hero. I think it's important to know his story that he left his troops behind to go and investigate a car, the car ended up blowing up and he lost his life defending his troops. He is a hero. Donald Trump has said that, Mike Pence has said that. Where Donald Trump made a big mistake, is that he tried to dovetail his broader criticism of Islam, like in Saudi Arabia where we see fundamentalist strict interpretations of Islam with this incident. And this is not the appropriate place to bring in a criticism of, you know, fundamentalist Islam.
LEMON: When you -- let me read this and then say, here, this is two of his tweets since last Thursday.
[23:20:00] "Mr. Khan who does not know me, viciously attacked me from the stage of the DNC and is now all over T.V. doing the same. Nice." And then he -- another one says, "This story is not about Mr. Khan who is all over the place and the interviews but rather radical Islam and the U.S. gets smart."
So, if you're running for president of United States. You know, it's a Gold Star family member, shouldn't you know better?
MCENANY: I think he should have stepped back and thought about this. I think he just answers questions. He speaks. When he's attacked, he attacks back. This case was not the right time to do that, the right place to do that. And this is where Newt Gingrich what he said is so important. He said, Donald Trump wants to win this. He has to stick to three or four issues. And not get sidetracked with, you know, this Gold Star family incident or the judge.
And I think that this is a moment where I hope, you know, he'd able to wake up and say "I want to win this and in order to do that, I need to stick to issues."
LEMON: So he should have known better than to make this comment?
MCENANY: I think, look, yes, I think he should have stepped back and said this is a Gold Star family, no room for criticism here, only praise of their son.
OBEIDALLAH: Radical Islam, what does it have to do with Donald Trump's attacks on John McCain last year, frankly, or the idea that Donald Trump saying thousands of Muslims cheered on the 9/11 in New Jersey, which has been proven not to be true. To saying Islam hates us.
Donald Trump is trying to pivot to radical Islam. He made a horrible mistake. And the only thing I can say is, I'm happy to see Democrats, Republicans, uniting independents saying this was wrong. And maybe Donald Trump will learn from this. But I doubt it, frankly, I don't think he can.
LEMON: Dan Rather who is my guest. He has said to me that this reminds him of the moment that brought down General McCarthy when attorney Joseph Welch representing the army and the army McCarthy hearings, spoke out forcefully against him. Listen to this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESOPH WELCH, SPECIAL COUNSEL FOR THE ARMY: Let us not assassinate this lad further, Senator. You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At a long last? Have you left no sense of decency?
JOE MCCARTHY, CHAIRMAN: I know this hurts you, Mr. Welch.
WELCH: I'll say it hurts ...
MCCARTHY: Mr. Chairman, as point of personal privilege, I'd like to finish this.
WELCH: Senator, I think it hurts you, too, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Is this similar? Does this rise to that occasion, you think, to that level?
OBEIDALLAH: To me, I believe so. In fact, the first draft of the article of the "Daily Beast" had that line in there, and I took it out. I think it's close to have senators and Kelly Ayotte, John McCain, you know, Brian Duffy from the VFW call it appalling, a group of 1.7 million veterans that he represents says a great deal. I think Donald Trump has made a horrible mistake here. We'll see if the polls pan out or not.
And I think he's shocked. I was shocked. To be honest, I'll be honest, when he did this? I thought he'd get away with it. He's demonized Muslims and immigrants before. This is a Muslim immigrant family. I thought he figured he could bully them, no one would care and I can't believe what happened. I'm so heartened by my fellow Americans. They stood up against the bully, Donald Trump, in this case.
MCENANY: But here's what I think. You're wrong and I don't know that will have a huge effect because people know Donald Trump has stood up for veterans. We've had veteran organizations saying he's donated to my organization for 10 years. He's the only candidate to have raised $5.7 million for veterans. Veterans by a two to one margin support him over Hillary Clinton. He's done a lot for veterans. I know he respects veterans. This is a mistake. And he needs to learn from it.
LEMON: I wonder if he, as you said, he's surprised by this, that he's not getting away with it. Because now, he is sort of pivoting saying the election is setting up, the election is rigged. And I'm wondering if this has gotten to him.
Listen to this. This is on "Hannity" tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Oh, I've been hearing about it for a long time and I know last time there were, you know, precincts where there were practically nobody voting for the Republican. And I think that's wrong. I think that was unfair, frankly, to Mitt Romney. You had areas where a lot of people were curious how is that possible? And I've been hearing about it for a long time and I just hope that there's really -- I hope the Republicans get out there and watch very closely.
And I'm tell you, November 8th, we better be careful because that's election is going it be rigged. And I hope the Republicans are watching closely or it's going to be taken away from us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: All right. Why is he doing this?
OBEIDALLAH: I think what you're saying. He's alluding to the fact if he loses, it's not his fault, he got for votes, the system is rigged. Donald Trump is remarkable. I wrote an article for CNN last week, "He'll never be presidential in the sense of presidential. That is too thin-skinned, he's insecure, he's narcissistic. He's like comedians I know where actually self-destructive."
I think you're going to see more and more Donald Trump self-destruct from now to November. Frankly, the more he gets in the media spotlight. And he'll use any excuse for why he lost, except for saying, "It was me, l said something wrong, I shouldn't have done this." He will never take responsibility. Very unique person, we've never seen before. Dan Rather said in the Green room, never saw this in his lifetime. So, not in my lifetime, either.
LEMON: Do you think he's throwing this? Because I mean, it felt every time he says something, you know, people wonder like is he trying to lose the election? Because some of the things that he says.
OBEIDALLAH: What do you think?
MCENANY: No. I don't think he's trying to lose. I think he gives unbridled access to press, and he answers every question. And sometimes he hears one word. I think he heard the word, "sacrifice", and immediately went to, "Oh, I've made sacrifices." and didn't think about the broader context of the interview.
[23:25:03] I think sometimes he answers too rapidly. And sometimes just got to listen to the whole length of the question and really you know, give thought to the answer and the question that was given but he gives unbridled access. Hillary Clinton hasn't given a press conference in 240 days. I think we see similar mistakes from her if she ....
LEMON: Let assume he's not given a press conference but he does not give unbridled access. Because he went on a Twitter rant against CNN, and he won't be appear on CNN because we actually told the -- hold his feet to the fire or statements that are -- questionable statements or about untruth. So, he won't appear because it's not favorable audience. That's not unbridled access.
MCENANY: I think he'll be back. Because He gave many interviews to CNN, far more than Hillary Clinton ever give in. LEMON: He did. In the past. Not now. You know, not when he's coming down to the wire.
MCENANY: He did some with George Stephanopoulos. So, he's sort of ...
LEMON: That's another network.
OBEIDALLAH: And there again.
LEMON: All right. When we come right back, Donald Trump's fellow billionaire, the former mayor of New York, suggests the candidate is not sane. I'm going to ask our very own Dr. Drew what he thinks about this.
LEMON: Donald Trump's numerous feuds have a lot of people wondering what he thinking?
[23:30:01] One prominent New Yorker is suggesting he might not be sane. Here to discuss is Dr. Drew Pinsky, the Internist and host of HLN's "DR. DREW".
Dr. Drew, thank you so much for joining us. It's been, you know, an erratic few days for Donald Trump. And there's a lot of people asking what is going with him, you know, Former Mayor Michael Bloomberg said at DNC last week in support of Trump's opponent, Hillary Clinton, even before the events of the last few days.
Listen, to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Let's elect a sane, competent, person with international experience.
The bottom line is, Trump is a risky, reckless and radical choice and we can't afford to make that choice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So he's implying that Trump is not sane. Do you agree with that?
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST, "DR. DREW": Well, listen, we have to look at what is insanity. He can be reckless and risky and not be insane, right. There's two definitions of insanity, one is legal definition. And the legal definition of insanity is somebody who is so out of it they don't know the difference between right and wrong. That is a very high standard for insanity. And very few people meet that standard. You're really not functioning when you're legally insane.
Then there's clinically, insane medically, what is that mean, usually when we talk about insanity, we mean psychotic, hearing voices, hearing hallucinations. Again, have a thought to sort of disconnects you from reality. So I'm sorry Don, not insane.
LEMON: OK. No apologies necessary and, you know, it was Bloomberg who made the assertion. If he -- we've spoken about this before. I believe that you think he has narcissist tendencies. Is that always a bad thing in a leader?
PINSKY: No, it isn't always a bad thing with people want to label him with a narcissistic personality disorder. And that is a pretty tough, tough thing to do at a distance. But let me just talk to you, narcissism generally can be a good thing. I mean if you're an, you know, a fighter pilot, we want you to be narcissistic, we want you not to have fear in experience circumstances.
And so most political leaders have some, degree of narcissism that's should motivates them to go into these areas. I mean we've done research on this and it bears that out.
The question, though, is narcissism has a liability, and that's malignant narcissism where you lose empathy, feelings don't matter. Only you're, you know, a sort of point of view is all that matters, you know, at all times. And in that situation, usually you see people really can't function interpersonally so you look at their children, their marriages, and you just don't see the evidence of malignant narcissism in his kids certainly.
Now, I'd love to here from its ex-wives. Maybe they know something that we haven't heard yet. But you just can't conclude it because his relationships are actually maintained and seem to be quite healthy.
LEMON: I want you to listen to what John Oliver said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN OLIVER, HOST, HBO'S "LAST WEEK TONIGHT": Honestly the main takeaway from these two weeks is that incredibly we may be on the brink of electing such a damaged, sociopathic narcissist that the simple presidential duty of comforting the families of fallen soldiers may actually be beyond his capabilities. And I genuinely did not think that that was a part of the job that someone could be bad at.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: People throwing around a lot of terms about Donald Trump. Is that unfair to call someone who's a nominee of the Republican Party a sociopath?
PINSKY: Yes, it is unfair because sociopaths are usually tied up with illegal really, seriously a problems with criminal behavior. But, you know, you can be manipulative. You can be narcissistic and you could still do OK in life. But, again, your relationships usually have extreme pathologies a very difficult to raise healthy kids, very difficult to have sustained marriages if you're deep into narcissism.
Though, you can have narcissistic features and there's no doubt that the majority of politicians have exactly that. The question, though, is are some of the reckless qualities that everyone is getting so disturbed about on the campaign going to be translated into office should he get elected? And that's a pretty hard thing to predict.
I don't know if this is just somebody playing politics. Or is this somebody who really can't contain their impulses? And by the way, although people wanted to call it narcissism, people are, like, hypomanic and bipolar at amongst that really have much more difficulty with running at the mouth and you got to wonder more about that than narcissism.
LEMON: You said bipolarism and what else hypomanic would you say?
PINSKY: Well hypomania. I'm not saying he is hypomanic. But I m saying everyone wants to label him with all these personality qualities. But, you know, when I pair -- hear people that are impulsive with their speech, I was worry about hypomania and bipolar types of conditions. I mean he has -- as he says he has boundless energy.
Again, a little hypomania can be great. There are a lot of hypomanic businessmen that get a ton done. But in terms of containing your speech, and being able to be thoughtful, and take a beat before you say something, for those people it can be very, very difficult.
So good or bad, and the point is I think people -- what's more fascinating to me, Don, is not him but his supporters that seem to not be concerned about. I think of this -- that to me is fascinating. As always, what is up with us?
LEMON: Right, even people who are not concerned and who say it doesn't matter if he's telling the truth or not.
[23:35:03] You know, let's talk about that you said not control your speech. Let's talk about the criticism. Mr. Khizr Khan has been doing interviews. He did an interview with me this eve evening. He said he had no right to question his knowledge of the constitution, that's what Donald Trump said. No right to question his another constitution.
Is that a -- is there a psychological reason that he is seemingly unable to take criticism?
PINSKY: Well, again, as -- let's just assume that most people that would choose to be in a very high-profile races like this would have narcissistic tendencies. And there's something called sort of narcissistic injury and then narcissistic rage. If you injure if you really shame somebody with narcissism they tend to be sort of Teflon when it comes to shame. They don't like it. And if you shame them, they can react with extreme aggression and extreme rage. So this is seems to be that kind of a psychological process.
LEMON: Yeah. The best way, if someone criticizes you don't like just ignore them. That hurts the most.
PINSKY: Does that seem, you know, about how this -- of Mr. Trump operates or how this political seems is going to go. But again, it's I'm trying to figure out what is it with us that we find that so appealing? And we're -- yeah, it's something that -- what -- I have a radio program on KABC -- radio program on KABC. What I keep hearing from my listeners there is enough is enough. And so if somebody is going to fight back, they're going to say, whatever, and I don't care what he says as long a it's extreme and it's pushing back and he's putting my country and my job first, I'll get behind him whatever he says. And there's disregard for the content.
LEMON: So we need to examine ourselves. When in Donald trump needs to examine himself?
PINSKY: Listen, why we watch reality television ...
PINSKY: That's all that's all about us. Why do we, you know, why do we do this? Let's examine that.
LEMON: Yeah, thank you, DR. Drew. I always watch you. And I don't watch reality T.V. but I do watch "DR. DREW". What time does your show air again, 7:00?
PINSKY: It 7:00 eastern port on HLN. I know that.
LEMON: Thank you, sir. Coming up, Donald Trump has called wife Melania of one of the most successful models of her time. But the New York Post has printed, let's put it up over this camera, some pretty racy photos that may shock some voters. This was the least racy one day before, yesterday or yesterday's was even racier than this. We're going to discuss it when we come back.
[23:41:15] LEMON: Welcome back to New York Post has published several nude photos of Melania Trump. The photos were reportedly taken in 1995, 10 years before she married Donald Trump.
And up here that now the front French men's magazine, the French in article in the Post, Donald Trump said, "In Europe pictures like this are very fashionable and common."
Here to discuss to all of this is Kate Andersen Brower, the author of First Women. Alice Stewart, a former communications director for Ted Cruz, and Attorney Gloria Allred. Thanks for coming on.
Alice, I'd like to start with you. What do you make of these photos being run by the New York Post, a newspaper that endorses Donald Trump as their candidate?
ALICE STEWART, FORMER TED CRUZ COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, clearly, look, this is an attempt for them to sell magazines. I mean, you look you put a picture like that on the cover, and certainly folks will pick it up and buy it. It's pure and simple what this is.
And look, clearly Melania is a beautiful woman, she's a model. These were pictures that were taken 26 years ago. And what this has to do with the presidential election, I have no earthly idea and I don't think it will have any bearing moving forward on ... LEMON: That's why next question. She's been in the race for over a year. I mean, why now? And how do you think they got these photos?
STEWART: Well, I'm sure there's probably a lot of photographs out there. Look, she's a very successful model. She looks beautiful in the pictures. But I think this is not going to have any impact on the race.
And look, to be honest, if they did this, as an attempt to try and sway the presidential race, look, it's fair game then to go back 26 years and take some pictures of Bill Clinton and Jennifer Flowers just down the street here in Little Rock, what they were doing at that time. I'm sure those are a lot more scandalous than this photograph.
LEMON: I don't think that -- maybe there's some pictures out there, but I mean, you know, that's kind of apples and oranges. But Kate, I want you to give us some context here. You've written extensively about first ladies from a historical perspective. Have you ever had a first lady who had been photographed nude and published on the front of a magazine? And how big a deal is this?
KATE ANDERSEN BROWER, AUTHOR, "FIRST WOMEN": I'm surprised it's not a bigger story. Actually I think that goes to show there's so much more swirling around right now with other things in the campaign.
No, I mean, when Jackie Kennedy had her nude photos were taken of her in Greece in the early '70s and that was a big deal, and they were surreptitiously taken. She had no idea and that was the huge story. And she was very upset by it.
But I mean typically we expect the first ladies to have a certain -- to not have posed nude before. It certainly a new era to have a first lady who's been a successful supermodel and that's absolutely right, she had a very successful career. But this is the kind of image that we don't normally see in the first lady, as a wife, a mother, and sort of the embodiment of American womanhood that she's put up on the pedestal in American politics.
LEMON: Yeah, well let's say she's a model, she's not a supermodel. I mean, you know, people had never heard of her until she married Donald Trump. She was successful but she wasn't a supermodel. What is your reaction to these photos, Gloria Allred?
GLORIA ALLRED, ALLRED, MAROKO & GOLDBERG: Don, I think it's a factor that people can consider, when they decide if Donald Trump and his wife, Melania, are the people that they want in the White House as the first couple.
Obviously, Melania is not Jackie Kennedy who, by the way, as has been pointed out, the naked photos of Jackie Kennedy were taken after she was no longer in the White House. Not during the time they were running or before they were running for the presidency.
So if people want a Jackie Kennedy, if they want a Nancy Reagan, if they want a Laura Bush or Barbara Bush, or a Michelle Obama, Melania is not the person. These photos have been described as racy. Some people might describe them as soft porn. You asked how did they get them?
[23:45:03] It wouldn't surprise me, although I don't have knowledge of it, if Donald Trump himself gave these photos. He's proud of his wife.
LEMON: Yeah, I don't ...
ALLRED: He's using them to market his campaign.
LEMON: Listen, I think it's all -- it's -- listen perhaps -- she can use her body the way she wants. I had, you know, most people have nothing against nudity. But again, I think your question is, how do you assess this with other first ladies in the country? She's going to be the first lady. I don't think anyone wants to shame her. Yes, she was the successful model. There are some nude photographs out there. But again, to what you said about the timing, do you think the photographs, Gloria are going to distract from, you know, the Trump campaign or Khan family controversy?
ALLRED: And if they are going to distract, is that exactly what Donald Trump would like, because he's on the losing end of the Khan controversy with the gold star parents.
But in addition, I mean, we don't -- I think an even more important issue than these naked photos, what is being called the girl on girl photos of Melania is the plagiarism and is the fact that when she gave her speech afterwards, she said -- or before, she said she had written it with a little help from a friend, when it turned out that, in fact, there was plagiarism that had taken place in her speech. To me, that's an even more important issue than the naked possibly soft porn photos of her.
LEMON: Hey, Alice, can I get a really quick response? I have to get to a break or they're going to kill me in the control room.
I think the issue here is, again, it's not Melania taking nude pictures. Again a woman can do with her body what she wants. She was taken nude pictures, that's her business. But Republicans are usually the party of family value. And one can imagine if there was a Democratic, you know, woman or someone, you know, think if that was the current first lady on the cover, don't you think all hell would break loose?
STEWART: Well, certainly if it was the current first lady absolutely it would be. I think -- I believe the Republicans are generally in a situation like this held to a little higher standard given that the social conservative values that many of them share. But I mean keeping in mind she voluntarily gave these photos and certainly I agree with Gloria to a degree, there's a slight chance. Donald Trump may have put them out, himself, because I'm sure he was certainly rather be talking about this than the Khan story because that has not been a good story for him.
LEMON: I got it, I got to go. But we're going to come back with you and we're going to talk about Donald Trump says nobody would be a better president for women than he would. But wait until you hear what he has to say about sexual harassment.
[23:51:26] LEMON: Donald Trump has been asked his thoughts on sexual harassment today and his answer, well, you got to hear it to believe it.
Back with me now, Kate Anderson Brower, Alice Stewart and Gloria Allred.
So, I was speaking about Fox News CEO Roger Ailes resigning over sexual harassment allegations. Trump told a USA Today columnist, Kristen Powers is often on Fox by the way that his own daughter, Ivanka. She was sexually harassed, that he would like to think that she would find another career or find another company that -- if that was the case. What's your take on that? Alice?
ALLRED: OK, I would like to actually ask Donald Trump has he ever been accused of sexually harassing anyone. And if so, what happened after he was accused of that. Did he enter into any kind of a settlement?
LEMON: Alice, do you want to respond to that?
STEWART: Well, I think that's, you know, that's the whole Roger Ailes story is certainly an unfortunate situation that's going on over there. But I beg to differ if that was a situation with Donald Trump's daughter, if that would be his recommendation. It's something that no one likes to think about. But I seriously doubt that would be his recommendation if that would happened.
LEMON: Why would he say it then?
STEWART: It's hard to say what goes on in Donald Trump's mind. But I think he would certainly have a lot more harsh action than that response.
LEMON: Gloria ...
LEMON: Go ahead Gloria.
ALLRED: Yeah, Don, you know, if a woman is sexually harassed, that's a denial of her right to equal employment opportunity. And no, she doesn't need to go and find another job. She has a right to have that job without having to run the gauntlet of being sexually harassed on the job. That's a violation of her rights.
Maybe it's the perpetrator of sexual harassment who should go and find another job. Not the victim of sexual harassment.
LEMON: Before the USA Today interview, Trump had come to Ailes' defense, speaking to Chuck Todd on NBC last month. He said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: And I can tell you that some of the women that are complaining, I know how much he's helped them. And even recently, and when they write books that are fairly recently released. And they say wonderful things about them and now all of a sudden, they're saying these horrible things about him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: As a lawyer on the panel, you've dealt with sexual harassment, Gloria. What do you read in both of these statements?
ALFRED: Well, I deal with sexual harassment every day. What happens is, a lot of women, they have a career, they worked hard to achieve in their career. And they don't want to lose their jobs. So they'll try to finesse the situation, Don, where they'll say nice things, thank you for helping me and all of that. But meanwhile, they're having to each day try to say no, but in a way that doesn't alienate the employer, because once they are sexually harassed essentially, they're placed in a no-win situation.
If they say yes, ultimately, the boss may get tired of them and then they lose their job. If they say no, then the boss may go into ego shock and then they lose their job. That's what's so unfair about sexual harassment.
So -- But I'm glad that women are doing something about sexual harassment. They know they have rights. They're going to lawyers and they are seeking to assert their rights. But just having to go somewhere else and lose their job after they worked so hard for it, no, that's not what they have to do.
LEMON: Kate, it is quite often that a candidate's wife or daughter is supposed to help a candidate of few more human, give people an insight into their personality and their family has done two weeks ago at the convention, at both conventions last week and the week before.
[23:55:09] Do you think Melania and Ivanka fulfilled that role for Donald Trump?
BROWER: I think Ivanka certainly did and Chelsea certainly did for her mother. I think Melania, you know, the plagiarism story really overshadowed the better parts of her speech. So, I'm not sure that she helped so much. But Ivanka can really step into that role that a first lady traditionally plays. And I think we're seeing that playing out on the Trump Campaign. Ivanka is really stepping up, more than Chelsea even. It's incredible to watch.
ALFRED: It's interesting too, that everyone talks about what great kids Donald Trump has, and Ivanka seems to be a great kid, I might add.
But where are the mothers? Why doesn't anyone give credit to the mothers in all of this? I mean, he was divorced. So, some of these mothers were essentially single parents. Yes, at some point. Different points he was involved in their lives but let's give credit to their mothers as well if these kids turned out to be great kids.
LEMON: Thank you all. I appreciate it. We'll be right back.
LEMON: That's it for us tonight. I'll see you right back here tomorrow night.