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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Trump: If Clinton Wins PA, She Cheated; Trump's Many, Many Answers to ISIS; Bill Clinton On Emails: "Biggest Load Of Bull"; Clinton, Kaine Release 2015 Tax Returns; The Key To Victory In Pennsylvania; Trump: If Clinton Wins PA, She Cheated; The Key To Victory: Winning Bucks County, PA; Fugitive On The Hunt With John Walsh Captured. Aired 8-9p ET

Aired August 12, 2016 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[20:00:15] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN GUEST ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. Jim Sciutto here tonight for Anderson.

And tonight, breaking news: Donald Trump telling voters that the only way he will lose the key state of Pennsylvania is if the other side cheats.

Also tonight, which Donald Trump is it? Is it the one who called President Obama the founder of ISIS and even after given chance after chance after chance when he did not mean it literally or the one this morning who said he was only being sarcastic, or the one this afternoon who said, well, he wasn't being that sarcastic, or the one just this evening who said he was being, in his words, somewhat sarcastic?

And in all of those, Donald Trump's campaign tonight in Pennsylvania with polling in that battleground and others showing him falling significantly behind. Despite that, he just leveled the claim that if he does lose in Pennsylvania in November, it will mean that he was robbed.

So, we begin tonight with Donald Trump's election fraud bombshell.

CNN's Jessica Schneider, she's with him on the campaign trail.

Jessica, a remarkable charge to make here in the key state of Pennsylvania.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jim. Definitely a strong charge. Of course, that charge coming after him dialing back some of his previous comments about President Obama and Hillary Clinton being the founders of ISIS, like you said today. He talked about on Twitter that he was being sarcastic and dialed it back again, saying that he was being somewhat sarcastic.

But more potentially controversial comments that could again shadow or overshadow his messaging, he talked about the fact that the only way that he could lose Pennsylvania and that Hillary Clinton could win this state would be if cheating goes on.

Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The only way we can lose, in my opinion, I really mean this, Pennsylvania, is if cheating goes on. I really believe it because I looked at Erie and it was the same thing as this, and I've been all over the state and I know this state well. I know the state well.

But let me just tell you, I looked all over, Pennsylvania, and I'm studying it, and we have some great people here, some great leaders here of the Republican Party and they're very concerned about that, and that's the way we can lose the state, and we have to call up law enforcement, and we have to have the sheriffs and the police chiefs and everybody watching, because if we get cheated out of this election, if we get cheated out of a win in Pennsylvania, which is such a vital state, especially when I know what's happening here, folks.

I know -- she can't beat what's happening here. The only way they can beat it, in my opinion, and I mean this 100 percent, if in certain sections of the state, they cheat, OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: So, some very strong words from Donald Trump, and he also talked about the voter I.D. laws that have been struck down by many judges throughout the country in recent weeks and recent months. He also borrowed some wording from Bernie Sanders, talking about the fact and stressing the fact as he does that the system is rigged, urging his supporters who were here in Altoona tonight and also throughout the state to go out and vote, Jim. But some very serious words from Donald Trump tonight.

SCIUTTO: Incendiary to say the least. Jessica, this happened the same day that you had Reince Priebus there on the stage intended as a show of party unity despite very real concerns within his own party about the kinds of thing he's saying. How significant was that appearance together on stage?

SCHNEIDER: Yes, very significant, Jim. A real show of solidarity and coming in the wake of the fact that over the past few weeks many Republicans have actually defected from the Trump train. We just saw it yesterday, that about 75 former members of Congress and former RNC staffers, signed that letter, urging the RNC to actually back away from Trump and instead pour its money, pour its backing into House and Senate races.

But Reince Priebus, he got up on stage before the big crowds here in Altoona, as well as in Erie, Pennsylvania. He stood with Donald Trump. He touted Donald Trump's experience as a businessman and said that getting behind Donald Trump is exactly what Republicans need to do in order to beat Hillary Clinton -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Jessica Schneider with Trump campaign.

Joining us now, Clinton supporter and CNN political commentator, Maria Cardona, CNN political commentator and former senior Obama administration official, Van Jones, CNN's chief political analyst, Gloria Borger, CNN political commentator and Trump supporter Kayleigh McEnany, "Washington Post" opinion columnist, as well as former George W. Bush speechwriter, Michael Gerson, and former Ben Carson campaign official and current Donald Trump supporter Jason Osborne.

Gloria, I have to start with you. Not just one mention of the word cheating regarding Pennsylvania. You heard him double, triple, quadruple down on that, another trip down the rigged election path.

[20:05:07] GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. At least it does take it to a different level. You say the system is rigged -- I mean, we heard that during the primaries until Donald Trump won at which point and I looked this up from last May. He said, you've been hearing me say it's a rigged system, but now, I don't say it anymore because I won. So, he took that back.

And this, cheating takes it a different level. I believe it personalizes it to a certain degree, that Hillary -- not that the system is rigged, but that the Clinton campaign will cheat, OK? And will take this election away from me because whatever draw Donald Trump has had in the polls cannot be about Donald Trump. It has to be about Hillary -- it has to be about a system that is not going to treat him fairly.

SCIUTTO: Kayleigh, the system is working when he's winning, it's rigged when he's losing. The polls are correct and laudable when he's winning and when they're losing, they're rigged. What's happening here?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, this was a show of confidence. He is making the point, I am so confident that I'm going to win the state because my message was tailor made for it, that the only way that I could lose is, is if Hillary Clinton cheats.

SCIUTTO: Kayleigh, he was talking about law enforcement coming out to enforce and prevent mass voter fraud. That does not sound like a confident candidate.

MCENANY: He's not far off. There were four warrants issued after the Pennsylvania primary because people were in fact cheating. There is a history of election fraud in this country. Has it turn elections? Not to anyone's knowledge.

But --

SCIUTTO: He's claiming there that it's going to turn a key state in this election?

MCENANY: It certainly could. We all know that Florida came down to a few hundred votes. So, to put the spotlight on this before the election happens I think is very smart. And he -- we tend to parse every single syllable from Donald Trump. This is a display of confidence. He's saying, I won't lose this unless Hillary --

SCIUTTO: So, what is the parsing of the words there? MCENANY: He's saying I am so confident I will win that the only way I

can lose is if Hillary Clinton cheats. That was hyperbole, and we parse every word, I understand that, you know, to make a story, but there is no story here.

SCIUTTO: Jason, I want to get to you.

But, Van Jones, I want to ask you. Are we parsing the words of what Donald Trump just said there?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, and I'm starting to get concerned. Donald Trump when we had Obama elected did everything he could do discredit him with this birther thing, de-legitimating a sitting president in the middle of two wars in the middle of the great recession. He is now pre-delegitimating his opponent. What is going to happen if she wins?

SCIUTTO: And the system, right?

VONES: And the system. But it's -- I don't think people are thinking about Wednesday morning. Wednesday morning, the Trump voters are not leaving America. The Clinton voters are not leaving America and the green voters -- we're all going to be in the same country.

But you may have millions of people who do not accept the result because in August, a major candidate is saying that the election in the United States is rigged and that the winner cheated. That is dangerous. That's dangerous!

JASON OSBORNE, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: After Bush versus Gore. I mean, you had millions of Democrats out there, and still four years later, saying Gore won this election.

JONES: Gore accepted the results.

OSBORNE: Gore himself did. And when you're talking about millions of people.

JONES: Sir, you would be concerned in any country if a major candidate pre-delegitimated his opponent, you would give. Don't give a different answer here --

OSBORNE: No, I'm not giving a different answer here. What I am is I watched the entire thing that clip that he saw, and what he was saying and to reinforce what Kayleigh just said, is that looking out in the crowd, and he said, I saw this in Erie, the massive numbers of people that are coming out. Should he have put it in a different way, so that you all would understand what he was saying to make his point better? I don't know, but I looked at it and saw, he's seeing massive crowds coming out for him, he's saying that the enthusiasm for his message and what he's saying is actually working resonating and there are the cases in Philadelphia where people have committed fraud.

MICHAEL GERSON, OPINION COLUMNIST, WASHINGTON POST: I think Gloria's on the right track here. This has been a catastrophe in the last couple of weeks and an electoral catastrophe and the polls are going down very badly, he can't blame the Hillary Clinton campaign which has not been very good, actually. He can't blame the media, he can't blame anyone doesn't want to accept the responsibility himself.

This is a candidate who says things compulsively that have no relation to strategy and that's what I think a lot of Republicans are deeply concerned now that he's not in control of his own message. That is the most serious --

SCIUTTO: And we know today that the majority leader in the Senate, Mitch McConnell talking about the very real possibility that they might lose the Senate. Clearly showing -- and that's from inside the same party.

Maria, I want to give you a chance --

(CROSSTALK)

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And that's, I think, a big reason why so many Republicans are leaving the Trump train because they see not just how dangerous his words are, but how incredibly pernicious his campaign has been to the Republican Party brand.

[20:10:03] JONES: And, by the way, you worked for Ben Carson. Ben Carson came on our air an hour ago and was brilliant. I didn't agree with him. He was brilliant. He was well spoken.

He was desperately trying to turn the attention back to real issues, whether the deficit, inner city schools and I said, this is a leader. I don't agree with him. He's a leader. I cannot imagine how you come out here and defend what you're saying from Donald Trump.

MCENANY: Ben Carson was also on the air highlighting the voting fraud in Philadelphia. He was the one who brought this up.

Last week was a bad week, I'll give you that. This week was not a bad week. This week was a week where the media took it out of context. And for all, how dire it is out there, "The L.A. Times" poll has him down by one.

SCIUTTO: That's one national poll. You saw the four battleground state polls, we're actually going to do a segment on this later, Colorado, Virginia, North Carolina and Florida, three of those states with double digit leads for Hillary.

MCENANY: Sure, another Florida poll shows him down by one, the "Reuters" poll, and the Rasmussen poll, both in statistical margin of error. So, for horribly --

SCIUTTO: The direction of the polls though, is clearly and I want you to speak, Jason, as well, but the direction is clear.

MCENANY: But for how horribly Donald Trump is doing, to still be within the statistical margin of error with Hillary, is phenomenal. He's doing a great job. This week was a great week. And you can spin however --

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: In the battleground states, he's well beyond the statistical margin of error. We're talking about ten, 12 points.

Jason and then Gloria.

OSBORNE: To your point, Van, I'm not -- you are sitting here saying that I'm defending that he's saying there's voter fraud out there. What I'm defending because I don't think that he was saying that there was voter fraud, that there's cheating. What he's saying again is that the massive crowds that are coming out and seeing me, how could I lose this election when we're seeing video from Hillary's rallies where there's very small numbers of people here.

SCIUTTO: To that point and just for clarity. Can we play that clip again? You're saying he's talking about the turnout and the rallies. Let's just play the clip again and we'll let viewers make their own judgment, and I'll have the panel react.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: The only way we can lose, in my opinion, I really mean this, Pennsylvania, is if cheat being goes on, I really believe it, because I look at Erie, and it was the same thing as this, and I've been all over the state, and I know the state well. I know the state well.

But let me you just tell you, I looked all over Pennsylvania and I'm studying it and we have some great people here, some great leaders here of the Republican Party and they're very concerned about that, and that's the way we can lose the state.

And we have to call up law enforcement and we have to have the sheriffs and we have to have the police chiefs and everyone watching because if we get cheated out of this election and if we get cheated out of a win in Pennsylvania which is such a vital state especially when I know what's happening here, folks. I know she can't beat what's happening here. The only way they can beat it in my opinion, and I mean this 100 percent, is if in certain sections of the state, they cheat, OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Was that a confident candidate talking about rallies? I heard cheating six times in that statement.

OSBORNE: No, I understand, you're waiting for him to say rally and a number of people. What I heard was him say, you can't beat what's happening here.

SCIUTTO: But in addition to that, I said, and I want to get Gloria to pipe in, he said, if there's cheating, and the only way we can lose is if there's cheating, et cetera.

OSBORNE: Right, it's a confident candidate. When you go into these events, and I remember back in 2008 when we had Sarah Palin up in New Hampshire and we had thousands of people up in Laconia, New Hampshire, where no candidate had been up there, and you look out on the crowd and you're like, how can we lose this?

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: That's a legitimate --

SCIUTTO: Are we dealing with two different version of reality here?

BORGER: Look, what Donald Trump is saying there, part of it, you know, and I agree with you, he's saying, look, I have these huge crowds and I get this amazing support. And, you know, this is where Trump gets his energy and support is from these crowds. How can I possibly lose? Look at you, there are so many thousands of you, and that's what happened with Sarah Palin, right? But she lost because very often the crowds don't translate into votes and therefore, he had to make the case. But if we lose then it's about cheating.

And my larger point here and then I'm going to give you the floor. My larger point is, it's never great in a presidential campaign where you have to parse the words of a candidate to try and figure out what he or she means, and is saying. And over the last couple of weeks, what we have done is tried to parse the words, whether it's on the Second Amendment or sarcasm or whatever -- whatever the issue du jure is. We have been trying to kind of figure it out and that leaves voters, independents, with are seven points behind Hillary confused, right?

SCIUTTO: Folks, we're going to have a whole other block in a few minutes, so please hold these thoughts, Van and Maria, and we are going to get back to you.

A lot more to talk about tonight, including a closer look at Donald Trump's plan for defeating ISIS, all of them. He has said a lot on the subject. We'll hear from a pair of national security pros about how it all fits together or it does not, depending on their opinion.

Later, Hillary Clinton turning up the pressure for Trump release his tax returns, by releasing her own.

[20:15:03] See how much she and Bill Clinton earn and how big a check they wrote to the Treasury when 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Donald Trump is expected to lay out his vision for fighting radical Islamic terrorism on Monday in a speech in Youngstown, Ohio. It's being billed as a major address and presumably, it will be serious, not sarcastic. Whatever it turns out to be, the speech comes after a week that saw some very big former Republican national security figures leveling sharp criticism of his foreign policy knowledge and his temperamental fitness to be president. It also comes after months of Trump being all over the map when it comes to how to fight the Islamic State.

360's Randi Kaye gives us a guided tour of what CNN, what can sometimes seen like unchartered territory.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Trump likes to talk about ISIS.

TRUMP: The barbarians of ISIS.

We have to get ISIS.

We will defeat ISIS.

We have to knock out ISIS.

KAYE: His most recent comments about the terrorist group included this suggestion linking both President Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton to the birth of ISIS.

TRUMP: ISIS is honoring President Obama. He is the founder of ISIS. He's the founder of ISIS, OK? He's the founder. He founded ISIS and I would say the cofounder would be Crooked Hillary Clinton.

KAYE: Whether or not he believes Obama and Clinton are co-founders of ISIS, Trump seems confident he's the expert on the terror group.

TRUMP: I know more about ISIS than the generals do, believe me.

KAYE: If that's true, then why would he have said this?

TRUMP: We don't even really know who the leader is.

KAYE: Trump has suggested several different ways he'd handle the terror group, first, warning ISIS their days are numbered.

[20:20:00] TRUMP: I would bomb the shit out of them.

(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)

I would just bomb those suckers.

KAYE: Then another idea. He told CBS' "60 Minutes", he'd let Russia do away with ISIS.

TRUMP: Russia wants to get rid of ISIS. We want to get rid of ISIS. Maybe let Russia do it. Let them get rid of ISIS. What the hell do we care?

KAYE: And what about the oilfields ISIS has taken control of?

TRUMP: I would bomb the hell out of those oilfields. I wouldn't send many troops because you won't need them by the time I got finish.

KAYE: Eight months later, though, a different plan from Trump. This time, he said he'd send tens of thousands of troops out of the Middle East.

TRUMP: We have to knock the hell out of them. I would listen to the generals and I'm hearing numbers of 20,000 to 30,000, and we have to knock them out fast. KAYE: He also took heat for this idea, saying he'd target those

related to ISIS members, something that is against the Geneva Conventions.

TRUMP: The other thing is with the terrorists, you have to take out their families. When you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families.

KAYE: One thing Trump has made clear is that if he's in the White House, ISIS will be destroyed.

TRUMP: They're going to be gone. ISIS will be gone if I'm elected president and they'll be gone quickly. They will be gone very, very quickly.

KAYE: He just won't say how he'll do it.

This is what he said a month before he officially announced his run for the White House.

TRUMP: I do know what to do and I would know how to bring ISIS to the table or beyond that, defeat is very quickly and I'm not going to tell you what it is tonight. All I can tell you is that it is a foolproof way of winning.

KAYE: Winning, something Donald Trump prides himself on. All he seems to need is a solid plan.

Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Back to our panel now, also joining the conversation is Mary Katharine Ham. She's CNN political commentator, also senior writer for "The Federalist". We're going to get to a deeper dive on ISIS strategy, but we want to go back to this allegation Trump has alleged tonight about cheating in Pennsylvania.

Maria, you have some thoughts.

CARDONA: So, back to what Gloria was saying in terms of the things that candidates say, right? We try to parse them. But the reason we try to parse them is because words matter. When you are president of the United States, the things that come out of your mouth can move markets and they can push people to go to war.

So, this is something that I don't think Donald Trump has either understood or cares about, and we've also seen the effect from his people on down of what those words are doing. So, for example, his person in New York, Carl Paladino, is now saying that the Khan family has connections to ISIS, and therefore, they don't deserve to be honored. For goodness sakes, this is a Gold Star family.

We saw in North Carolina, there is a lawsuit because one of his staffers pulled a gun on another staffer. These are the things that happen when you are the nominee of major party and you say reckless, irresponsible things.

SCIUTTO: Mary Katharine, you probably heard -- we have to give Mary Katharine a chance there.

Is there a danger here as he starts to float that balloon, in effect, to say, if I lose there was cheating and you, therefore, my supporters have a reason to be angry and not accept the results? Is there a danger there?

MARY KATHARINE HAM, SENIOR WRITER, THE FEDERALIST: Look, I think there's some, and I think he does want to have a scapegoat should that happen. I think you're also right to point out that post-2000, Gore was not super quick to say everything's cool, guys, and this is a legit election and many liberals were not quick to say that either.

JONES: No, immediately he said that and that's not fair to Mr. Gore.

(CROSSTALK)

SCIUTTO: There was a question about the votes there, after the Supreme Court.

HAM: After the Supreme Court, right.

JONES: The Supreme Court ruled appropriately and he came out and set an example for the entire world about how to deal with that.

HAM: And the rest of the eight years, Democrats said selected, not elected.

JONES: But not the leader.

HAM: All right. Fair enough. This is an actual issue.

But I do think there is an issue of blowing what Trump says out of proportion and making it the entire conversation. And I think there is a point with the ISIS conversation on this, where he says it was sarcasm. I think he means hyperbole, and I think that's actually what it was, and I don't think it was as big a deal as people were talking about.

SCIUTTO: Calling Obama the founder of ISIS.

HAM: Right. And it overtakes the entire conversation.

By the way, I will point out that back in June, some of the senators who were involved in the antigun -- the gun control stuff were saying that the GOP wanted to sell guns to ISIS. They were being hyperbolic, they were being a little bit irresponsible, I think it's about the same level of thing, and nobody turned it into a big deal.

SCIUTTO: Do you accept, Gloria, that?

BORGER: And I guess the question is, and I would ask you this, what about the Second Amendment question? You know, I think --

SCIUTTO: Regarding Hillary Clinton.

BORGER: Regarding Hillary Clinton. I think the question is if it were just once I'm totally with you.

HAM: He has not earned a lot of charity on this point.

[20:25:00] BORGER: This is my point. It happens time and time again and it puts him in a bad, and his campaign, I would say, in a bad situation because what we are trying to do is interpret and figure out whether it's hyperbole or whether it's sarcasm.

SCIUTTO: I want to add one thing into it because I spoke -- I interviewed the director of national intelligence a short time ago, and I asked him about the issues in the country right now. You know, whether it's racial tension, gun violence and also loss of confidence in institutions and the political system, and he said, he's not an alarmist. He's been in intelligence for 50 years.

He said he's concerned about domestic stability. And he said that he's spoken with the president in his words about being a thin membrane between stability and instability, and I just wonder if it's a fair question and I know you have different points of view, but if injecting this thought that if he loses that, you know, go with your pitchforks to the gate of the White House, is that dangerous?

MCENANY: You know, the loss of confidence in institutions, that's entirely because of the other party. When you have the IRS going after Tea Party groups, when you have the Justice Department hunting down private citizens and saying that they're criminals like Darren Wilson and coming out and saying they're entirely innocent, when you have the DNC, purportedly nonpartisan, saying, let's use Bernie Sanders' religion and make a story about his religion and making fun of an African-American person's name, loss of confidence in institutions comes because --

SCIUTTO: Just very quickly before we go to break.

BORGER: I think voters felt betrayed by both parties -- by Republican Party, too.

MCENANY: Yes, for sure.

BORGER: I mean, I think it's all of Washington.

SCIUTTO: Is it on one party, Van Jones, or is it both parties, that loss of confidence?

JONES: Well, I don't think that you can make the case that the entire -- listen, you have both parties that were responsible for deregulating the banks, both parties are responsible for giving us these dumb wars, both parties are responsible for these trade deals that nobody likes, so I think you have a bipartisan failure and every opportunity to attack Obama might pass.

I just want to point out something about the actual election. The reason that Trump is so passionate about Pennsylvania is because he cannot win without the Rust Belt because he threw the Sun Belt away by attacking Latinos. He loses Florida, Colorado and Nevada by attacking Latinos. He has to have the Rust Belt.

SCIUTTO: Folks, we're going to have to leave it there, but we are back again in a few minutes. So, please hold those thoughts.

And up next, we have some breaking news. Bill Clinton fired up and defending his wife, his take on Hillary Clinton's email issues, and the FBI response. That's when 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:31:21] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: More breaking news tonight. Bill Clinton weighing in when asked about Hillary Clinton's e-mail issues and her claims that she never received any that were marked classified.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITES STATES: First of all, when the FBI director -- first of all, the FBI director said when he testified before Congress he had to amend his previous day's statement that she had never received e-mails marked classified.

They saw two little notes with a C on it and this is the biggest load of bull I've ever heard that were about telephone calls that she needed to make and the State Department typically puts a little C on it to discourage people from discussing it in public in the event the secretary of state whoever it is doesn't make a telephone call. So it sounds threatening to a national security you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: This remarks came at a convention of journalist in Las Vegas, meantime his wife ask her running mate Tim Kaine have released a new batch of their tax returns, both are making the case, they have nothing to hide unlike their GOP rival who has refused to release any of his returns. CNN's Pamela Brown, reports.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hillary Clinton is keeping the pressure Donald Trump to release his tax returns.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He refuses to do what every other presidential candidate in decades has done and release his tax returns.

BROWN: Hillary Clinton and her husband Bill today released their 2015 tax return which showed they raked in 10.6 million last year, much less than the nearly 28 million they made in 2014.

They paid roughly a third of their income to Uncle Sam, 3.2 million, making their effective tax rate 30.6 percent on par with their 32 percent effective rate in 2014. At the same time the campaign disclosed 10 years of returns from running mate Tim Kaine and his wife Anne Holton. They reported about $313,000 an income and paid nearly $63,000 in federal taxes for an effective rate of 20 percent.

MITT ROMNEY, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We will only know if he's a real deal or a phony if he releases his tax returns.

BROWN: It's part of a coordinated effort by the campaign that includes a new web video featuring prominent Republicans calling on Trump to release his returns.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The last 30 or 40 years, every candidate for president has released his tax returns and I think Donald Trump should as well.

SEN. TED CRUZ, (R) TEXAS: He doesn't want to do it because presumably there is something in there that is bad.

BROWN: Trump says he'll release his returns once an IRS audit is complete.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Well look, I'm in a routine audit and every lawyer tells you, including Greta who is a lawyer, but she said, you know, when you're under a routine audit, you don't give your tax return.

BROWN: As Clinton urges transparency on tax returns she is still not releasing transcripts from her paid speeches, a point that Bernie Sanders seized on during the Democratic primary and Trump could revive.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS, (I) VERMONT: I am going to release all of the transcripts of the speeches that I gave on Wall Street behind closed doors not for $225,000, not for 2,000 and not for $0.2. There were no speeches!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: He has said repeatedly that she'll release the transcripts of her paid speeches when Donald Trump does and there's no indication at this point that it's going to happen any time soon. We know after she left the State Department she gave a round of speeches to Wall Street Banks including three to Goldman Sachs and a returns today Jim, showed that over 60 percent of the Clintons $10.6 million incomes come from speeches.

[20:35:00] SCIUTTO: Pamela Brown, thanks very much.

Maria, does this move Donald Trump on releasing his own returns?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well clearly, Donald Trump is going to do what Donald Trump is going to do, it doesn't look like this is going to move him to do anything he had said. He's try to the use the excuse that he's under audit but we know for a fact that that is not an excuse.

The IRS has said that anybody can release their taxes no matter if they're under audit, Nixon did it when he was under audit. 40 years, in the last 40 years every Democrat and Republican nominee has released their tax released. Hillary Clinton has released her tax returns for past 38 years.

And so I think is something we saw the American people, 69 percent of the American people do want to see his tax returns, it's not the same thing as financial disclosure which is what their campaign loves to say. We would see charitable contributions, we would see his effective tax rate which is probably zero.

SCIUTTO: Also, this will value of ...

CARDONA: Exactly, we would see if there are any Russian ties, you know, that has been an issue in this campaign. So I think the American people deserve to see it.

SCIUTTO: OK, on the issue of e-mails because that is the news in the last hour is Bill Clinton making the argument that the e-mails that were marked classified only had a C. They didn't have the word classified, he said that's bull, you know, to imagine that that was a threat to national security, Kayleigh, Jason (ph)do you accept that explanation?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: No, as secretary of state you are obligates, in fact you sign agreements when you come in to understand what classified information is. So even when there aren't classified markings, when you are dealing with very high level intelligence information, you are obligated to know that it is supposed to be classified.

And Maria spoke earlier about needing to parse Donald Trump's words every day. We need to parse Hillary Clinton's actions every day, her actions at State Department where she violated her nondisclosure agreement and her agreement not to conduct work-related matters on her private server. Her actions at the Clinton Foundation that wreak of quid pro quo corruption in the new 44 e-mails we saw.

Her actions in Benghazi where she allegedly lied to two family members. I will take explaining words but you guys have to explain unethical, potentially and unlawful action.

CARDONA: We've been talking about that's over a year.

SCIUTTO: Along is there, along is there ...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Words matter, I mean to your point, when you say words matter and she continually says that she did not lie to the FBI. And continue and then comes out and said ...

CARDONA: The FBI said that she didn't lie to them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not -- are you still defending the fact that Hillary Clinton did nothing ...

CARDONA: Comey said that she was not ...

(CROSSTALK) CARDONA: Comey said it. Read his transcript.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have friends that have come up to me that worked to the Pentagon that got fired from their jobs because they went to the printer to take a document off the printer, and there was one piece of paper that somebody else have printed out. There was a classified document, they lost their national security clearance, they got dishonorably discharged from the military. This happens all over the place. She has thousands of e-mails that we have never seen and all of a sudden we have one ...

CARDONA: You mean her personal e-mails. I mean those are personal e- mails, no one has the right to see personal e-mails.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have server to conduct official business and private business ...

CARDONA: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... then everything is ...

SCIUTTO: Mary Katharine.

CARDONA: This is all that you guys have to go to because you have nothing else.

MARY KATHARINE HAM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: There's no problem with Clinton's making a transparency argument and when she releases her taxes, I mean she can make that argument for a moment but then we move on to these other things because she has to answer for them. You can see them in the polls and she has lied in many a press conference and there is a difference that Hillary team will tell you, she's done nothing wrong because no one is going after her criminally. There's a difference between wrong and criminal, you can do something incredibly wrong, and maybe it's not actually happen about criminal, and the Clintons do that constantly.

SCIUTTO: During the flap about Donald Trump's comments seemingly tempting Second Amendment people to take the law into their own hands. A lot of folks, said listen, if an average person said that the secret service would sit down and talk to them, but on this is a fair point, if an average person, a lower-level person at the State Department treated this classified information this way there would be at least be administrative penalties, we know that it's legal penalties.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, as Comey said it was extremely careless and he chose not to prosecute. You may disagree with that. I think the problem, one of the problems for Hillary Clinton here is that Bill Clinton actually just explained this a little bit better than she has, you know?

Is that, you know, he sort of made the point at the end of his statement well, if this was so awful why would all these people who have had these high-level security clearances like admiral Scowcroft and Colin Powell and, you know, former head of the CIA et cetera, et cetera endorse her if they thought that she was such a high national security risk and then he went about explaining what this was.

Now you may not accept his explanation, but when Hillary Clinton went on, you know, on Chris Wallace's show a couple of Sundays ago, she had trouble explaining it. She always has trouble explaining it and so ...

SCIUTTO: Or admitting fault.

BORGER: Or admitting fault. And so, you know, Bill Clinton once again, explainer-in-chief here ...

SCIUTTO: We're going to save Maria, I ...

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: You know, brought up Colin Powell. Colin Powell and senior aides to Condoleezza Rice also said that they on their e-mails retroactively also had classified information. This also has to do with the bigger issue of the interagency bureaucracy of what it takes and how you classify information which is a big mess. And that ...

(CROSSTALK)

HAM: The other guys ...

[20:40:08] SCIUTTO: We're going to have to -- we'll have to let it go there. Thanks very much to all of you.

Up next, we're going to go back to Pennsylvania and the one county in that vital swing state, that truly could determine who wins the entire election.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Again, our breaking news, Donald Trump campaigning in Pennsylvania tonight telling voters he the only way he will lose that key swing state is if Hillary Clinton cheats.

Meanwhile, the GOP nominee sinking in new polling from four other key battlegrounds, let's start in Colorado where the latest NBC/Wall Street Journal. Poll shows her up by 14 points there.

Let's move down to Florida, of course another key swing state, little tighter, but still a significant lead of five points. Let's go up the coast, North Carolina. Keep in mind, this state was red four years ago almost a double-digit lead up by 9 points, 48 to 39. Finally here Virginia, that of course the home state of the vice presidential candidate Tim Kaine, here 13-point advantage.

Going back to Pennsylvania, indeed the key to victory could be there in Bucks County north of Philadelphia. Our Gary Tuchman explains why and talks to voters there to see who they like.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[20:45:10] GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Cramer's Bakery in Yardley, Pennsylvania, in Bucks County. It's been in business 70 years. So they know all about delicacies here. What they didn't know is that presidential candidates specifically treasured their vote. Jill McDade is one of the employes.

Did you know you were a swing voter?

JILL MCDADE, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: I did not.

TUCHMAN: You're the person who Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump want very badly to vote for them in November. Doesn't it make you feel pressure?

MCDADE: It doesn't feel like pressure?

TUCHMAN: All right, good.

Jill, her fellow bakery workers and the hundreds of thousands of other voters in Bucks County are widely considered a microcosm of the American electorate. Almost evenly split between Republican and Democrat, white collar and blue collar. A swing county in a swing state.

Now you may feel some pressure. Who you're going to vote for in November 8?

MCDADE: Donald Trump?

TUCHMAN: How come?

MCDADE: I'm a registered Republican. I've always voted that way and that's the party I want to support.

TUCHMAN: John Barrow also works in the bakery.

John, I don't want to anger you, because you have a big knife in your hand right now, but who you going to vote for president?

JOHN BARROW, BAKERY EMPLOYEE: Oh, I don't know.

TUCHMAN: OK, had you decide right now?

BARROW: If I'd decide right now, it'll probably Hillary.

TUCHMAN: And how come?

BARROW: Because don I don't think Donald Trump would do a good job. He's not qualified, you know.

TUCHMAN: Presidential candidates would declare that every state, every county is important, but in reality some are more important than others like here in Bucks County where recent political history indicates that if you don't win here you are not so likely to make it to the White House.

Bakery employees seem to be evenly split.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clinton.

THOMAS CRAMER, BUCKS COUNTY PA VOTER: Clinton.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump.

TUCHMAN: But what they are not split about is the message to candidates will certainly take note of if they haven't already. The distaste about the way the presidential race is being conducted. Thomas Cramer is the bakery owner.

CRAMER: I feel that the candidates should stick with the subject matter and all this childish behavior should stop.

TUCHMAN: It's a sentiment heard all over this county. Even among people who've made their presidential decisions. Diana DeCecco said she's voting for Trump.

DIANA DECECCO, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: Just to have a chance of better business policies and freer capitalism, more free economic system and also, you know, watching our borders. But Gary ...

TUCHMAN: But Trump -- Trump's your guy.

DECECCO: ... it's very important, yes.

TUCHMAN: Does your friend agree?

MARGIE CHAMEY, BUCKS COUNTY PA VOTER: No, I don't.

TUCHMAN: Who do you like?

CHAMEY: I don't like anybody.

TUCHMAN: Are you going to vote?

CHAMEY: Yes, probably.

TUCHMAN: Who?

CHAMEY: Hillary, but I don't like Hillary, I'd rather have Bernie ...

TUCHMAN: I take it ...

CHAMEY: ... believe it or not.

TUCHMAN: But I think you just say you don't like Hillary Clinton, the reason you are voting for her is because you like Donald Trump even less.

CHAMEY: Yes, absolutely, yes.

DECECCO: Why can I understand that, totally.

CHAMEY: Yes.

DECECCO: I totally get this year is a rough year. TUCHMAN: And that's the message to the candidates from many of the voters in Bucks County. It's a rough year and many are disenchanted. None more so than this woman.

So who do you want for president?

AMY LOWENSTEIN, BUCKS COUNTY PA VOTER: Alyson Kennedy of the Socialist Workers Party. She's not going to win, but I would rather vote for someone I like that doesn't win than someone I don't like that does win.

TUCHMAN: Their opinions may vary, but the importance of Bucks County voters is not being questioned.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, Yardley, Pennsylvania.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: There's more to come, a fugitive profiled on season one on of CNN's "The Hunt with John Walsh" has been captured. Next John Walsh will join us with an update and a preview of this weekend's episode.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[20:52:19] SCIUTTO: This weekend's episode of the CNN Original Series "The Hunt with John Walsh" takes on sex trafficking right here in the United States. The episode focuses on the search for a man accused of kidnapping young women from Mexico, then forcing them into prostitution in Texas. In this preview, authorities find out a bar in Houston is doubling as a brothel with underaged girls. Let's have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The owner of Las Palmas was woman Raquel Medeles Hortencia Medeles-Arguello. And she were by the nickname Tencha, that's what everybody knew her as.

Tencha had a group of about five or six girls that were minors locked up in a room on the second floor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were 14, 15, 16 years old.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These minors were upstairs and were only offered to certain clients if they paid a large amount of money to have sex with the minors.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They pay good money and when I say good money, they would pay for certain girls $500 an hour.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: John Walsh joins us now. Now, John, you have delved in this horrible world of prostitution trafficking, you dealt with a lot of bad characters. Tell us why this particular target Alfonso Diaz- Juarez is so bad.

JOHN WALSH, CNN "THE HUNT" HOST" Well, for two reasons I have, you know, continually battled the sex trafficking here in the United States because we are the richest, most powerful country in the world and everybody thinks sex trafficking of children only happens in Cambodia, India, Vietnam, Thailand, and it does. I've been in those countries. But the biggest offender, the biggest user of children in sex trafficking is the United States. And this guy has been on my radar for years and I call him a five-star sociopath.

In 2010, he's a Mexican national that kidnaps little girls in Mexico, he's also a coyopte which professional smuggler, a coyote. So he brings them to Houston to that madam that you saw there, and he kidnapped a girl in 2010, rape her, brought her to Houston. She was pregnant by him, had a baby. She tried to -- she gave the baby to a friend, somebody that she trusted in the brothel because they never let her out of that room except to have the baby. He kidnapped the baby to force her back into prostitution. He got caught by authorities. He only served three years Jim, three years for that.

SCIUTTO: For destroying so many lives.

WALSH: This girl's life, definitely, and kidnapping her baby. So in 2013, they had a raid on that particular cantina and there are many of them. Houston is the big gateway for sex trafficking of Latin girls from Central America and Mexico.

[20:55:06] And so they raided that brothel, caught that madam and 13 other people. They're all in jail. She's doing life without but Alfonso Diaz-Juarez and nickname Ponco, is still going back and forth across the border, kidnapping these girls. And these are the criminals I hate the most.

As the father of a murdered child, I hate people who prey upon children and women. He does both. He beats them, he tortures them, he is a five-star sociopath and we have big following in Mexico. I have Spanish operators, Spanish-speaking operators. Only my operators answer the phone, no cops answer the phone. And if you're an illegal in the United States, I don't care what your name is. If you're in Mexico, I have a toll-free hotline. Turn this sociopath in so we can take him off the streets.

SCIUTTO: Please listen to that call, John. You're doing God's work there. We support you in that. If you're watching tonight, listening, heed John's call and watch again on Sunday because the CNN Original Series "The Hunt with John Walsh" will air at 9:00 p.m. eastern and pacific time right here on CNN.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: That does it for us tonight. I'm Jim Sciutto in for Anderson Cooper tonight, thanks so much for watching. Have a great summer weekend.

[21:00:00] Time now for "Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown".