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Green Party Town Hall Examined; Trump Campaign Shakeup; Looking at New Trump Operatives. Aired 10:20-11p ET
Aired August 17, 2016 - 22:20 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:20:00] DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: Thank you very much, Mr. Cuomo.
You just heard Green Party nominee, Jill Stein and her running mate, Ajamu Baraka lay out their party's case.
And we've got lots of big political news for you this evening.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
I want to begin though with some breaking news. And this breaking news is out of Rio. Those two U.S. Olympic swimmers pulled off their plane tonight bound home from Brazilian authorities that after questions were raised about their account of being robbed along with teammates Ryan Lochte and James Feigen.
Joining me now to discuss this is CNN's Nick Paton Walsh, he is in Rio. And also CNN's sports analyst, Christine Brennan, Christine joins us by phone. Nick, I'm going to start with you. This story is getting more bizarre by the moment. What do we know about these latest developments?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is absolutely extraordinary, Don. Now we are facing two American athletes part of a team at the top of the medals table now it seems taken off the plane to some degree.
Now the phraseology we're getting from the U.S. Olympic Committee, says that Jack Conger and Gunnar Bentz who are the two member of the four swimmers who said they were robbed who didn't give statement to the police, that they have being, quote, "removed from their flights to the United States by Brazilian authority."
That's why they're looking for extra information, but that is quite remarkable. Because earlier on today we heard a Rio judge had issued a seize and seizure warrant for Ryan Lochte and Jack Feigen who are two individuals of that group of four who'd given statements to the police.
Now the suspicions of that judge had been arouse by the fact those statement didn't really that they hadn't been clear about how many of the robbers who was supposedly taken valuables from them have been armed and whether or not they were being surprise by them.
That let the judge a combination with her impression from seeing some CCTV footage of them arriving home after the robbery looking, in her words, "not shaken" particularly and in good condition was the impression she got. But led her to think that something was amiss.
And as the police spokesperson I talked to said, you know, in this circumstances were ended this by routine. This is because police believe they're missing evidence or information.
Now we have this extraordinary development where the remaining two individuals are stopped from leaving the country. Part of the court order was to remove the passports or get in the possession of police, the passports of Ryan Lochte and Jack -- James Feigen.
Now, you have to bear in mind here, we have spoken to Ryan Lochte's lawyer, he says that ever since Mr. Lochte has been ask to cooperate, he's spoken to the FBI the tourist police, anybody who would be willing, he continues to be cooperative, he only left the country as was previous schedule before these search and seize of warrants were even issued.
And he hasn't even received a request for further cooperation says the lawyer at this point. Nobody is suggesting that anyone necessary done anything wrong at this stage. But we are dealing with a huge number of questions about this night.
Just to recap, Don, supposedly, according to the first account we heard, they left the night club in the early hours of Sunday morning, they were pulled over in their taxi by men dressed as police, who were armed, they were robbed.
The big thing that aroused suspicion according to police here and many Brazilians who saw this instance play out, high profile as it was. It was that these men were robbed by armed individuals but appear to have escaped, according to their own testimony with a cell phones and their credentials too.
And if you look at the CCTV of them getting home, well, it appears they got home with a lot of high-value items as well. So, anyone in Brazil knows those are main target of any armed robber.
The question really is what's going on and it's blown now, it exploded from being simply a piece of paper handed to try and get Ryan Lochte who's left the country and jack Feigen who may not have left the country yet to talk to police further...
WALSH: ... so having it seems two pretty high profile American athletes taken off their plane home. Don?
LEMON: I want to get to Christine now. Christine, if two of the swimmers were pulled from the plane, Lochte is at home now, where is the fourth swimmer? Where is Jimmy Feigen?
CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: It's a great question, Don. And we have been told and we've been reporting that he is in Rio. They have not disclosed his whereabouts. Obviously, the other two today tried to get on a plane and we now know what happened to them.
This, as Nick said, this has escalated into a stunning story.
BRENNAN: And one of the things that is apparent to me having covered a lot of Olympics is the U.S. Olympic Committee is really not in control over this.
Also of course, Ryan Lochte is home. And if there are inconsistencies in the story, which there apparently are, and that puts the judges concern about, Don.
The question is going to, I think come back to Ryan Lochte, here are your three friends who are stuck now in Rio, you're home safe and sound. Will Ryan Lochte now face the pressure to have to speak out and say if something is different, if the story must change, I don't know.
[22:25:00] But it is a stunning story that has taken over these Olympic Games. And exactly what the U.S. does not want to have happen. The U.S. wants to tread lightly in an Olympics, win medals but not cause trouble.
And, oh, my goodness, this is the exact thing the U.S. Olympic Committee, USA swimming, no one wanted this to happen.
LEMON: No one wanted this.
BRENNAN: They are -- they have a nightmare on their hands.
LEMON: What does -- what does this mean, you know, internationally. What does this mean for the government? Because you have one U.S. -- you said is here at home. The Olympic Committee didn't want it, the government didn't want it. What does this mean for the international level?
BRENNAN: Well, I'll take that first. One of the things that happened with an Olympic Games is you want to get along. And with all of the questions going in as we all know about Brazil and the issues of crime, if there was no crime committed, we don't know, obviously Ryan Lochte said a gun was to his head early Sunday morning.
If that didn't happen, we can't begin to think of the consequences I think for the international relations, obviously relations and just be with the games.
So, there's so many questions we don't yet have the answers to, but this is just, as I said, a nightmare scenario for the United States, for the U.S. Olympic Committee, and for these swimmers.
LEMON: Yes, unbelievable. I mean, Ryan Lochte said they held -- he was held at gun point and on and on and on. So, we're going to continue to follow this.
Thank you, Christine. Thank you, Nick Paton Walsh. Again, the story two Olympic swimmers competing in the -- two swimmers competing in the Olympics removed from an airplane. One is still -- others are still in Brazil, that makes three of them still them, two of them I guess are being held by authorities and are being questioned by authorities, and then Ryan Lochte, the most famous of the four of them back here in the United States.
Again, we'll continue to follow.
I want to turn to politics. Donald Trump shaking up his campaign today hiring Steve Bannon and the man called the most dangerous political operative in America -- in America as a campaign CEO.
Here to discuss that is Mark Preston, Sara Murray, and Joe Johns. What a turn of events, just 80 some days out from the convention. So, Trump's poll numbers are sinking now. This is a big shake-up. What can you tell us how all this came down, Sara?
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, we know Donald Trump loves the polls. So, it's not new to him that he's lagging behind in them. He paid close attention to that. But he had some frustration that this is not the kind of campaign he wanted to run. He felt like he had one foot in the sort of the outsider lane, which is kind of running on his gut, and one foot trying to please the establishment.
He wasn't really doing either of those well. And those frustrations sort of hit a boiling point over the weekend and then earlier this week and that's when we saw him bring on Steve Bannon and elevate Kellyanne Conway, who was an advisor and a pollster, now she's a campaign manager. And, you know, kind of effectively push Paul Manafort to the side.
LEMON: She sat right there last night.
MURRAY: Yes, yes. So, it's going to be interesting to see how this all works out. Some sources are saying this means that Donald Trump will go back to basics, we'll get these big raucous rallies. It will be Donald Trump unleashed.
When I talk to Kellyanne Conway tonight, she was much more measured and said we still want to see Donald Trump talking about policy, we want him to talk about Obamacare, we want him to talk about ISIS.
But mostly we want to remind people that this election is not a referendum on Donald Trump. There's Hillary Clinton on the ballot. There's Donald Trump on the ballot and so, if you are voter who want change, then you vote for Trump, you don't vote for Clinton. But obviously, that's a difficult case to prosecute when so many have already developed their opinions about Trump.
LEMON: How many conversation that we've have about Paul Manafort? Remember when he came on and we're like, oh, you know, they fired Corey Lewandowski. And now they had this -- have this new guy.
So, he put out a press release today, I'm sure you said, Mark. He said "This is an exciting day for team Trump. Victory in November." So, how is this, how does this work? What is he going to be doing now?
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Well, you know, it all depends on who do you talk to. A lot of people think that he is just entirely has been push aside and won't be involved at all. I think they'll be -- I think he'll have some kind of involvement, I don't really think we know exactly what that involvement is.
But clearly the keys of the car have been handed to Steve Bannon to drive it now. Kellyanne, who is on our air often, you know, and we've known her for many years, has being called the campaign manager. But really I think that who's roles going to be is to keep Donald Trump in check.
She's also well-liked by the...
LEMON: She good with numbers, too. She's good with demographics.
PRESTON: Well, she is -- she's a very good pollster and she's also very well-liked with the republican establishment. So, there's a little bit of solace in this movement, the fact that they know Kellyanne, they know that she is even handed and cool tempered and that will be her role.
Now Steve Bannon, who has never run a campaign, is taking over the whole entire campaign which is really not a glorious job. I mean, it is a difficult job. It is not a glorious job and not only...
LEMON: Is he taking over because one of the surrogates said, oh, it's just a CEO sort of figure head to watch the whole thing.
PRESTON: Absolutely not. Not with -- not with the days that are remaining in the campaign so short.
What someone explain to me who is within the campaign today said, listen, the bottom line we didn't have the structure beforehand, we didn't really have somebody running the campaign.
[22:30:06] Paul Manafort never really took over that responsibility. We needed someone to come in and do it. The question is, you bring somebody in who doesn't have that kind of experience.
Paul Manafort never really took over that responsibility. We needed someone to come in and do it. The question is, you bring somebody in who doesn't have that kind of experience.
DON LEMON, CNN TONIGHT SHOW HOST: Yes. Paul Manafort was the sort of the message man. The one who would deliver the message.
All right, Joe. Joe Johnson, I want to bring you in now. You covered a Hillary Clinton rally today. What did she have to say about it?
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's clear the campaign's taking advantage of this, Don. Quite frankly, the campaign manager got on the conference call with reporters this afternoon accusing Donald Trump of small, nasty and divisive instincts in bringing on his new chief executive.
Hillary Clinton took the stage here in Cleveland, not long after that, walked to the microphone and lit into Donald Trump again. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, (D) U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And for anyone waiting for Donald Trump to suddenly become more responsible, remember what a great American, Maya Angelo said, when someone shows you who they are, believe them.
And I think it's fair to say that Donald Trump has shown us who he is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: So, Donald Trump getting hit for going to the right in this situation and Hillary Clinton doing everything she can to continue defining him in the space that he created, more or less, with some of his more incendiary comments, especially during the primaries, Don.
LEMON: Mark Preston, who is happy about this change and who is not happy about it?
PRESTON: I'm pretty sure Corey Lewandowski is happy about this change, right?
LEMON: And Paul Manafort maybe not.
PRESTON: You have to ask him that. He's a contributor, he does comes to CNN often. Listen, I think that -- look, in the end is anyone really happy when you're making a change of the campaign so close to Election Day?
PRESTON: And let me process by saying that it's not surprising that we do see shake up in the campaign. What is surprising is you see it happened back to back within 60 days and when you're about 75 days though.
LEMON: What about this late -- this late is...
PRESTON: I mean, yes, right. With 75, 80 days to Election Day. I mean, that's troubling I think for some folks. LEMON: Yes. Does this help Trump moves the needle with women, you
think minority college educated women he's having problem with, any of the groups he's struggling with?
SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: I think the bonus about might be Kellyanne Conway being on the plane because obviously she can filter the things that Donald Trump says or the things that Donald Trump is doing and sort of nudge him or guide him in the direction that he might need to go.
But you get back to the situation where if you've been watching someone on television for the last year and a half, which is, you know, feels like about as long as I've been covering this campaign, it's hard to move those feelings you already have about a candidate.
And it's going to be a lot of work to try to change an opinion someone has said about Donald Trump in just, you know, the remaining 80 something days.
PRESTON: And can I just part to that?
PRESTON: We can say all we want about the staffing and how the staff is important and the staff is critical. But when you are a personality like Donald Trump that, is a personality like none other, it's very difficult to really change someone's direction and how they address things and how they pursue.
LEMON: We saw the video coming out today of him meeting with his national security advisers today. How did that go? What can you tell us about that. At Trump Tower, in the same, by the way, the same conference room that he does interviews. I was like, oh, I know that room.
MURRAY: Yes. Well, you know, Donald Trump was almost on track to be on message for three straight days. He was talking about ISIS on Monday, he did, you know, a law enforcement speech on Tuesday, today was supposed to be the security roundtable and instead he just added the campaign shakeup in the middle of that.
I think that republicans are encourage to see Donald Trump listening to other people who have some experience on this issue and meeting with members of Congress who are maybe more informed on these issues than he has then.
This is going to be pivotal ahead of these debates is to make sure that Trump goes into them informed. Not that he knows every tiny detail but that he can speak in a way that makes people trust him on security that it's just not bluster.
Because you get deeper into that when you talk about general election debates than we talk about primary debates. And I ran into General Flynn as he was leaving today. And of course, they had their classified briefing together. He said it was very professional. So, we will see how much of that sort of sift in and how much of that carries over the debate stage.
LEMON: Hey, Joe, I have to ask you this quickly, how does the Clinton campaign prepare for an onslaught of Breitbart style attacks coming their way no doubt?
JOHNS: Well, they're pretty prepared. Because I can tell you every single thing that goes across the transom, there is a possibility of at least a paper statement coming out of this campaign.
They seem to be improving on the rapid response and they have suggested that they're going to be responding a lot more in the coming weeks. They think this could get ugly.
LEMON: All right. Thank you, Joe. Thank you very much, Mark. Thank you, Sara. I appreciate it.
When we come right back, a presidential candidate who says that he'll be on the debate stage along with Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.
[22:35:02] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Donald Trump making big changes to his campaign. I want to talk about this with one of Trump's opponents, Libertarian candidate, Gary Johnson. He joins us along with CNN's Mark Preston. Mark liked it so much, he came back for another segment. Governor, welcome. Good evening to you. You're doing OK?
GARY JOHNSON, U.S. LIBERTARIAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thanks. Thanks. I'm doing all right. We just had a rally in Miami. And overflow crowds, I couldn't fit them all in. What do you make of that?
LEMON: Look at you, you're getting a plug in already before I even get the first real -- yes, you sound like Trump, look, I got tons of people here, it was huge.
JOHNSON: Tons! Huge!
LEMON: But let's -- talking about -- speaking of Trump, another change in leadership for his campaign what do you make of it?
JOHNSON: You know, I'll leave that to you, guys. I mean, you know, there's the criticism he doesn't talk about issues. Look, I'm the smaller -- I'm getting the issue plug in here. You know, I'm the smaller government guy, I'm the personal liberty and freedom and people making choices and then when we intervene militarily, when we support regime change, it really has a negative consequence.
LEMON: So, I know you said you'll leave it to us but if I can I ask you one more question. I have to ask you about Steve Bannon.
JOHNSON: You can ask as many as you want. This is your show.
LEMON: Steve -- thank you very much. I'm glad you realize that. Not -- some people come on and they don't. Steve Bannon is described as a win it all close kind of guy. Is that
what you think we need in the presidential race right now?
JOHNSON: Well, what we're trying to sell, Bill Weld and myself are two former republican governors that served two terms each in heavily democrats states by being fiscally conservative and socially inclusive.
[22:39:56] That's, you know, I think this whole campaign, this whole presidential race is just desperate for some issues and I'd like to think straight talk, and that's truth and that's honesty, and you know what, I think it's missing.
And of course that bears itself out in the polls that these two candidates are so polarizing.
LEMON: All right. Let's talk about the polls and talk about getting your message out. Because you said you want to talk about issues.
So, the polls have you in the high single digits, which is not a bad place to be I don't think. I mean, you're getting pretty close to -- you're 9 percent, by the way, in the recent Bloomberg poll, 7 percent at Monmouth University poll.
The reason I mention that is because we're just less than three months to the election. What do you think you could do to boost your support before then?
JOHNSON: You know, Don, the numbers are doubling about every three weeks right now and the Presidential Debate Commission did identify the five polls that they're going to look at.
In those five polls were actually their last numbers we were at 10. So, if you just look at the analytics, which have us right now at reaching 25 million people social media-wise, like I said, it looks -- it looks really good we will attain that 15 percent.
And then in the last couple of days raising about $3 million, you know, that's a real opportunity to actually inform the 70 percent of Americans that don't even know we're in the race at all.
LEMON: Yes. So, 15 percent that threshold, that's the threshold that you need to get to the debate stage, do you think you'll make it?
JOHNSON: Well, I'll tell you we'd be at 20 percent tomorrow if we were at the top line in any of these polls. Meaning the top lines in these polls right now are Trump and Clinton and then Johnson is a couple of -- couple of questions down.
And then, 99 percent of media just reports the top line. If we were on the top line, Don, tomorrow, it would be 20 percent and a lot of that would have to do with just how -- just discontented everybody is with those two candidates.
But Bill Weld and myself, libertarian nominees for president, we're the only third party that will be on the ballot in all 50 states. LEMON: Yes. OK. So, Mark Preston is the polls guy. I want to get him
in. What do you make of what he said? He said that he wants to be on the top line to get 20 percent.
PRESTON: Right. Well, I mean, the way polls are done, too, is scientifically and it's not necessarily when a pollster calls and for our viewers out there who have -- who see top on polls, they don't necessarily say Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton first.
I mean, it will be a random order of sampling. But I think to the governor's point, I think his frustration probably lies in the fact that he doesn't think that the media has done a good enough job highlighting what his position are or what Governor Weld's position are, or even tonight, Don, where we saw the Green Party candidates on trying to talk about their vision now.
I was just wondering what Gary Johnson -- if he saw.
LEMON: Yes. But let me ask you before you ask him a question. I'm just wondering, do you think the Green Party and the Liberation Party, do you think they're cancelling each other out somewhat?
PRESTON: I think that there is probably a discontent within the country that there are some folks who could be supportive of either or party but in the end I don't think they're necessarily cancelling each other out.
LEMON: What did you want to ask the governor?
PRESTON: Well, I just want to -- if Governor Johnson got a chance to see tonight's Green Party town hall and what his thoughts were on what Jill Stein or her running mate had to say tonight.
JOHNSON: You know, my thoughts, and I'm not trying to kiss up here, but CNN, hey, thanks for having the Green Party on and thanks for giving us a couple of town halls.
You know what, I'm not so frustrated about this whole thing. I'm really optimistic that we will be in the debates and, you know, as crazy as this campaign season is, I might be the next president of the United States and you guys, hey, thanks for spicing this up a little bit.
LEMON: Stranger things have happened. I would say...
JOHNSON: You're going -- you're going to be able to say that, hey, we had him on, we had him on early and, you know...
PRESTON: You're going to invite Don Lemon to the first state dinner.
LEMON: Yes, yes. Listen. This has been such a whacky election season that, you know what? Who knows? Anything can happen, even right now in the...
JOHNSON: All right, all right. You heard it first. Don Lemon.
LEMON: So, I want to -- let me ask you the same question. Do you think -- do you worry that you, you know, the Libertarian and the Green Party are maybe cancelling each other out?
JOHNSON: No, I don't think so at all. I really, you know, we're drawing pretty much equally from both sides. And I see that going all the way to the election. A wasted vote is voting for somebody that you don't believe in.
If you don't -- if you don't vote your conscience, shame on you and, you know, I think -- I think maybe six weeks from now you'll be talking about is voting for Trump a wasted vote? Is voting for Clinton a wasted vote given that Gary Johnson has risen so far, so fast.
PRESTON: Very presidential.
LEMON: I know, that was very presidential. Thank you. Hey, listen, you're a good guy. I like your attitude.
JOHNSON: Your good guys are good guy.
LEMON: Thank you very much, governor. I appreciate it.
JOHNSON: Thank you.
LEMON: Thank you, Mark.
JOHNSON: All right.
LEMON: When we come right back, some conservatives are cheering Donald Trump's campaign shake-up. Others not so much. We'll hear from both sides.
[22:45:05] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: What do leading conservatives think about Donald Trump's campaign overall? Two of them are with me tonight. Bill Kristol is the editor of the Weekly Standard, and Matt Schlapp is the chairman of the American Conservative Union who is the former political director for President George W. Bush.
Gentlemen, good to have both of you on. Matt, I'm going to start with you. Good evening, by the way. Big shake-up today in the Trump campaign with the hiring of Steve Bannon.
MATT SCHLAPP, FORMER GEORGE W. BUSH POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes.
LEMON: You say bringing him on to the Trump team is an excellent idea. Why? SCHLAPP: Yes. I think Kellyanne Conway and Steve Bannon, I think this
is great news for all republicans and conservatives and independents who are supporting Donald Trump for a couple of reasons.
First of all, I think Kellyanne has great experience and will really be there with the candidate as a message becomes incredibly important in the final three months. And for Steve Bannon, someone I do know well have a high regard for.
This is someone who really understands 21st century digital media. And he's built a bit of an empire on the right online and he understands its importance.
[22:50:00] He understands how important it is to get messages out in a crisp, clear fashion and I think it's exactly what the Trump campaign needs. I think we all know, all of us who are supporting him know what he needs to do from a message perspective.
The question is, are they going to actually start doing it.
LEMON: Interesting. So, Trump's speech last night, Matt, reading prepared remarks from a teleprompter went very well with conservatives, but sources tell CNN that we should expect to see more big rallies, less teleprompter. I mean, isn't -- that's the environment where trump his off-the-cuff style that gets him in trouble, right?
SCHLAPP: Yes. Let me give some advice here, OK? So, I guess I could pick either one of those as to which one is preferred. I don't think that's what this let Trump be Trump thing is really all about.
I think what I would love to see, when he really popped and made the most favorable impression with voters is when he went out there and talk in a calmer fashion with his kids around quite honestly. Whenever one of his children is with him at an event, they kind of explain things that it's harder clearly for the candidate to do. He's more likable.
His greatest achievements are those children. And I would encourage them to continue to use the kids as they go forward. It's only a couple of months. And I think it puts their father in the best possible light.
LEMON: OK. So, now to Mr. Kristol. So, Bannon's hiring described on your magazine's web site today by Stephen Hayes says this. This is in part. He says "A campaign overall means that Trump is choosing to end his campaign living in the alternate reality that Breitbart creates for him on a daily basis, where everything he does is the best, where everyone who questions him is an idiot or a traitor, where big rallies pretend electoral victories, where House Speaker Paul Ryan is a problem with modern conservatism, where polls that find him down are fixed, where elections he loses are rigged, where immigration and trade are the nation's most pressing issues, and where truly Trump alone can fix it all." I mean, you guys should say how you really feel. But, I mean, does he
-- you think that Bannon just reinforces Trump's bad habit?
BILL KRISTOL, THE WEEKLY STANDARD EDITOR: Yes, Trump has hired like a mini me. I mean, Trump needs -- it's probably too late now honestly. People have seen Trump for a long time, 62 percent of the American people disapproved of him, 80 percent think he's not qualified to be president.
Matt's advice is fine. But the kids come on stage maybe that will go from 62 to 61 percent. But people are electing a president and not someone whose kids happen to like him.
Bannon runs this Breitbart News site. It's his own reality. This is a site that said Paul Ryan in deep trouble in his Wisconsin primary. That was their analysis. That wasn't -- they wanted him to lose of course. But they...
LEMON: He won by 80 something.
KRISTOL: And he won by 84 to 16. This is the site that says all the polls that you see that CNN does and Washington Post and Wall Street Journal that show Trump down 9, 12, 14, in swing states all phony, all rigged.
So, Trump decided to get someone who would, you know, be a yes man and reinforce his worst instincts. And it's been successful I supposed by Breitbart News but it's a terrible thing...
LEMON: What's their role they play in the conservative media? The reason I ask you is because you've had your run-ins and they -- you know, with Breitbart treatment, you've gotten some name calling, a headline once called you "A republican spoiler renegade Jew."
KRISTOL: Well, that's not what I think, right? I mean, I didn't react to with the renegade Jew thing because that's I didn't want to make a big deal out and I was like, I think it's kind of disgusting though, honestly.
I mean, we have plenty of debates. We have plenty of debates on the right as people do on the left.
KRISTOL: We don't normally attack people for their religion or ridicule them in some way or how they --it's totally inappropriate to say. Why was I a renegade Jew suddenly? You know why?
KRISTOL: Because I didn't like Donald Trump and I didn't realize that unless Donald Trump is elected president the state of Israel was in danger. Really? I think I have a pretty long record of fighting pretty hard for the state of Israel.
KRISTOL: And I think a lot of serious people who don't think that Donald Trump needs to be president to save the state of Israel. But for not agreeing with that I was a renegade Jew. That was Stephen Bannon's headline I'm told he put it on the web site as the way to get traffic.
Because as Matt said, hey, they're doing great financially. You put a headline like that up you get a lot of -- you get a lot of traffic. Is that the kind of person you want running a presidential campaign?
LEMON: Go ahead, Matt.
SCHLAPP: I always find it interesting when people say, you know, Donald Trump and maybe some of his allies throw out these charges and use inappropriate language, but you just tried to what Stephen Hayes said on your web site.
You know, I really think that's over the line, too. The fact is that this year a lot of us have been wrong in our predictions, it's been a heck of a strange year in politics. We're all conservatives. We're all republicans most of us. We have to give each other grace. You expect Donald Trump to do that I think that's fair.
KRISTOL: I don't ask for any grace. I don't ask for any grace.
SCHLAPP: I think the audience...
KRISTOL: I don't go around -- I don't go around attacking people on the basis of their religion or their ethnicity or their race. Breitbart does.
LEMON: And, Matt, to your point, Matt, I will let you finish.
LEMON: But what I read here, I didn't hear any name calling. Basically he's quoting saying, you know, that anyone who questions him is an idiot or traitor.
LEMON: I didn't see anything like renegade Jew. And you have seen the bombastic headlines from Breitbart. Go on, finish and make your point.
SCHLAPP: Yes. My only point is that it feels to be fair if we talks about Breitbart ability to do analysis and predicts. I think the Weekly Standard has to be honest that they've been on a lot of their predictions and a lot of us have this year.
[22:55:00] And the fact is this, which is like it or don't like it...
KRISTOL: And he's not hiring me -- and he's not hiring me as his campaign manager, thank God. You know.
SCHLAPP: Well, I don't know. I think you do a good job.
KRISTOL: Yes, you're right.
SCHLAPP: Bill, you did a good job to Dirk Quayle, I think you're -- I think you're a talented person. But, look, I think we get down this has nothing to do with Breitbartnews.com.
This has about this campaign in the last 30 days -- in the last three months. And it needs to do, and I actually think somebody who understands digital media as they move into the advertising portion of this campaign, somebody who understands the idea of getting your message and somebody who can talk to Donald Trump and who he will listen to, I think is critical at this stage.
I think every person who supports Donald Trump should look at these changes as nothing but positive.
LEMON: Yes. Look, Steve Bannon and Kellyanne Conway they've never really run a major campaign, a presidential campaign. Kellyanne has been involved in national campaigns at a high level.
SCHLAPP: A lot.
LEMON: And there's also Paul Manafort still in the tent. Any concern about how this all is going -- this practice this is going to work in practice?
KRISTOL: It's going to be -- it's going to be great. Manafort will give the pro-Putin point of view with the meetings, Trump will discuss how much fun it is to make fun of disabled people with POW's and Gold Star families and the fellow from Breitbart, what's his name again? I can't remember him? Bannon.
KRISTOL: Bannon is going to talk about how it's fun to insult people for their religion and whip up...
SCHLAPP: But those are all insults. Those are all insults.
KRISTOL: Oh, you're being silly, Matt. You're being silly.
SCHLAPP: No, I think...
KRISTOL: Does Manafort's work for Putin's guy or not?
SCHLAPP: Look, I think the charges that you want to make like that -- that are the facts showed to be true I think that's very fair. But I don't think this kind of like -- if you're going to throw out these things about these people...
KRISTOL: Do you defend what Trump said...
SCHLAPP: ... and come ridicule, no, I think it's in the sense.
KRISTOL: Do you defend what Trump said about Mr. Khan -- about Mr. Khan?
SCHLAPP: I'm going to defend the fact that Steve Bannon and Kellyanne Conway are good decisions for this campaign. I think they are actually going to help this campaign. And I'd like to see our coverage of this campaign, the things we're talking about here today be about these issues.
And I think that's the right thing to do. Let's talk about the differences between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton for the next three months. I think it would be good for the country.
LEMON: But there is some worry inside the campaign that Bannon is going to dig up every coffin for the debates with Clinton. Is there going to be a rehashing of all the attacks from the Clintons from the 1990s? I think that's a concern. You first, matt.
SCHLAPP: Well, you know, I think that if they're going to focus on the 1990s it's a big mistake. I think what this election is about is the fact that Washington is broken, our economy needs to get revving again and that we have this fight with radical Islamic terror.
And Hillary Clinton is corrupt and is not the person to fix these problems. Every day they're not talking about that is a day they're losing. Going back to the 1990s isn't the solution. There are plenty of Clinton scandals that's right before our eye.
LEMON: I got 10 seconds. Let him in. Go ahead, Bill.
KRISTOL: That's what Matt -- they brought Matt in who actually has political experience. He would do a good job at advising Donald Trump. But he doesn't want people like Matt. He wants someone like Steve Bannon.
LEMON: Thank you, gentlemen. I appreciate that. When we come right back, an expansion of winners. That's what a top Trump aide calls today's campaign shake-up. But can a candidate turn his poll numbers around with less than three months to go until the election?
[23:00:01] LEMON: Inside the Trump campaign shake-up. The so-called street fighter who is the new chief executive of team Trump.
This is CNN Tonight. I'm Don Lemon.
Donald Trump hires Steve Bannon, the man who's been called the most dangerous political operative in America --