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Trump Prepares To Deliver Big Immigration Speech; Trump Jr.: My Dad Isn't Pandering, He's Talking To All Americans; Trump Surrogates Spark Controversies; Trump Jr. Slams Clinton Over E-mails, Foundation Controversy; Senior ISIS Figure Killed; Trump Trying To Meet With Mexico's President Before Speech Tomorrow. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired August 30, 2016 - 21:00   ET


[21:00:05] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. This time tomorrow night, we're told Donald Trump will be laying out his immigration policy which is either softening, not softening, will or won't provide a path to legalization, is or isn't different from what he's been saying since the beginning of his campaign and so on.

We've been getting some mixed signals for weeks now. Tonight, we got a clear signal from the candidate's son, no softening, no change, perhaps, however, a step by step implementation of his plan to deport every person who's in the country illegally. Donald Trump Jr. also talks about his father's outreach to the African-American community. That's coming up.

We begin, though, with some of the factors complicating that outreach in our Jim Acosta.



JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He's not quite seeking forgiveness but one of Donald Trump's top surrogates Pastor Mark Burns apologized in an interview on CNN after tweeting this cartoon of Hillary Clinton in blackface. An image that's offensive to African-Americans.

BURNS: Obviously my message, I stand by it but the methodology, I do not. The message is simply this. I believe that the Democrat Party has been using the black vote, that black voting bloc.

BURNS: Never, ever will we allow her to step back into ...

ACOSTA: A popular warm-up act at Trump rallies, Burns preaches with a booming voice and a passion for ripping into Hillary Clinton.

BURNS: She don't belong in the White House. I'm going to still say it. She belongs in jail.

ACOSTA: The pastor is just the latest prominent campaign voice to create a distraction for Trump as he attempts to woo African-American voters. The Clinton campaign accused Burns of crossing the line.

JOEL BENENSON, CLINTON CAMPAIGN CHIEF STRATEGIST: I think he surrenders the ability to discuss the issues. I think it's unfortunate. There's an unfortunate pattern here.

ACOSTA: Other top surrogates and staffers from the Trump campaign are coming under scrutiny as well. Buzzfeed discovered this audio of Trump campaign CEO Steve Bannon using a derogatory term for lesbians on a conservative radio show.

STEVE BANNON, TRUMP CAMPAIGN CEO: The women that would lead this country would be (inaudible), they would be pro-family, they would have husbands, they would love their children. You know, they wouldn't be a bunch of dykes that came from the Seven, you know, the Seven Sisters schools up in New England."

ACOSTA: In the anti-Trump keep America great super PAC unearth this 2013 video of Trump campaign manager Kellyanne Conway talking about women in the military. In this panel discussion, Conway argues that rape would not exist if women were as strong as men.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: If physical fitness, if we were physiologically, not mentally, emotionally, professionally equal to men, if were physiologically as strong as men, rape would not exist. You would be able to defend yourself and fight him off.

ACOSTA: The Trump campaign claims it rejects extremist views like those of former KKK leader and Louisiana Senate candidate David Duke, who placed a robocall asking voters to back the GOP nominee.

DAVID DUKE, FORMER KKK LEADER: Unless massive immigration is stopped now, we'll be outnumbered and outvoted in our own nation.

ACOSTA: The campaign said in a statement there is no place for this in the Republican Party or our country. But Democrats counter that Trump's policies like his plan for a great wall on the southern border stir up racial tensions, even if one prominent conservative said he's not buying all of Trump's promises on immigration.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, CONSERVATIVE TALK RADIO HOST: I can choose a path here to try to mollify you. I never took him seriously on this.


ACOSTA: Trump will be walking a tight rope in his upcoming immigration speech in Phoenix tomorrow night. Any changes to Trump's immigration plans could erode support he has in his conservative base.

Later this weekend, he'll be speaking before the African-American community in Detroit where he will find out if there's any lasting damage from Pastor Burns and his tweet. We tried to reach out to the Trump campaign to respond to Bannon and Conway's comments in that piece you just saw but they did not respond. Anderson?

COOPER: Well, so given all what many Democrats see as racially charged controversy surrounding the Trump campaign and given that the candidate is now asking African-Americans for their vote directly, the question is, how does the campaign reconcile the two? Is the outreach sincere?

I talked to Donald Trump Jr. when we spoke earlier today.


COOPER: Your dad's also this, I believe Saturday, going to go to an African-American church. That's something that a lot of African- American Republicans who support your dad have wanted him to do for awhile and a lot of critics of his in the African-American community have said why hasn't he done that sooner. If he's supposedly making an outreach to African-Americans, why just do it in general rallies?

DONALD TRUMP JR., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE'S SON: Well, because I think unlike a lot of typical politicians, my dad's not panderer. And he's spoken with these guys, you know, from the African-American community, big names, for the last 25 years, Anderson. I went to dinners with most of the people.

Now, when you have become a conservative, when you become a Republican, when you run for office, all of a sudden, those people forget all of those times, they forget all of those friendships and they run for cover because that's what's become, you know, that's just the norm, I guess, unfortunately.

You know, he's always had those relationships. He's not just going to run around pander for votes. He's had those friendships for years and he's going to do great things for those communities. He's talking about all Americans, all ethnicities, all backgrounds, even immigrants.

Listen, I'm the son of an immigrant. He's the son of an immigrant.

COOPER: When he wanted to talk about Israel he went to APAC. I mean, he does talk to specific groups, I guess.

[21:05:01] TRUMP JR.: He has. But, you know, he doesn't, you know, again, went around pandering specifics with all those things. What he's talking about bringing jobs back to our country, Anderson. That's number one. If we do that, we solve a lot of inner city problems, right? If we bring jobs -- we take care of our education problems, right? We spend more money per capita on education than any country in the world. We're not even in the top 25. We're like number 29 or 30. I mean, there's a long list of third world countries ahead of us in education that spend a fraction of what we do. If we educate our kids, think of what they could do. Think of the productivity they could create that would, you know, trickle down into the economy. Instead, we have terrible education system, right? We have a terrible corporate tax structure forces, you know, our companies to send their technology, send their jobs abroad and overseas, makes it impossible to bring that money back into the country because of the tax structures that the Democratic policy have created.

You know, if we change some of those things, guess what? We'll have good jobs. We'll get rid of the problems in the inner cities because those people would be working. They'll be able to have a productive lifestyle. They'll be able to take care of their children. Those children will be educated. They'll be able to do great things with their lives. That's what my father wants. He wants the same opportunities that I got, that you got because we were blessed with great fortune when we were growing up. He wants that for everyone in America, not just ...

COOPER: When you hear some of the way your dad is talking to African- Americans, I'm wondering if you have any concerns about it. Because again, it's something we have, you know, we do interviews with African-American voters all the time, Republicans, Democrats, independents and we're hearing from a lot of them saying -- a lot of the people we've talked to said, "Look, he's saying, you know, we all live in poverty, our schools are terrible, we're going to get -- we're worried about getting shot on the street, when that's not the reality of life for the vast majority of African-Americans in this country. Obviously poverty levels are too high.

TRUMP JR.: You know, Anderson, it's much more true than it should be.

COOPER: Right.

TRUMP JR.: That's happening a lot more often than it should be. Of course it's not happening to everyone. Nothing happens to everyone, Anderson.

COOPER: The whole, what do you've got to lose, though? Is that ...

TRUMP JR.: You know, no. I think he is pointing about -- that is look at Democratic policies. So many people have been -- well, we just vote Democratic, this is what we do. What have their policies done for those people and those neighborhoods? Crime is up, shootings up, unemployment up. Every statistic, every possible reasonable matrix that you could measure in those communities, in inner cities, you know, about success, they're a disaster under these left wing policies. All of those cities are, you know, controlled by liberals and Democrats and what have those policies accomplished other than making things worse, other than creating more strife for the people in those communities?

So, you know, what have you got to lose, maybe not the right way that some people want to hear it, but honestly, there's an element of truth to it. What could be worse than what's happened over the last eight years for those communities?

COOPER: I mean, just, you know, crime is down and has been going to down ...

TRUMP JR.: Anderson, just tonight terms of shootings in those areas ...

COOPER: ... obviously in some communities ...

TRUMP JR.: ... in terms of shootings in those areas, in terms of ...

COOPER: Right. Chicago was in 20 years.

TRUMP JR.: Of course. But Chicago, it's the prime example. I mean, it's the ultra-liberal city in this country. I mean, it's the benchmark for liberal policies in this country, Anderson. So you can't say well, in one city, things are great and, you know, take all of those places. The Chicago ...

COOPER: But it seems like you are taking one or two cities and nationwide actually crime is down.

TRUMP JR.: I think you can look -- yeah, nationwide and in other cities that don't have those same problems. It's -- you can't look at it that way. I think in the big inner cities where you have these very loyal Democratic voting blocs, they are vastly worse off than they have been in the past.


COOPER: Just as a point of reference, as bad as things are in Chicago, murders are still down substantially from the 1990s, Los Angeles even more and New York which, of course, has had Democratic independent and Republican mayors over the past two decades has seen its murder rate fall 82.1 percent since 1993, according to NYPD statistics, which come out every week and are available online.

That right there is a live shot of a Trump rally close to starting in Everett, Washington. We'll keep our eye on that as we welcome back our panel.

Karine Jean-Pierre, as you listen to Donald Trump Jr. talked about his dad's not pandering, not willing to pander to audiences, what goes through your mind?s

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, MOVEON.ORG NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON: Well, the one thing that he is right about is that his dad is not pandering to African-American voters. What he's doing is slandering African- Americans. And he's doing this in front of an all white audience and saying to them hey, you know, African-Americans live in urban hell holes and that's what he's doing. And by the way, as we all know, it's -- which is not true.

So I am actually curious to see how this is going to go for him on Saturday at this church that he's going to in Detroit, because I'm curious to see, is he going to use the same message, is he going to say hey, you guys live in a war zone, hey, you guys if you walk down the street, you're going to get shot? So I think that that's what's happening. It's a slandering, not a pandering.

COOPER: Kayleigh, do you think he'll use the same message?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I do. And I think that this response emblematic of the problem with the Democratic Party. They're trying to marginalize Donald Trump's outreach rather than address his argument.

His argument is that if you're an African-American, you are six times more likely to be the victim of homicide. That's data you can find in the Bureau of Crime statistics. If you're an African-American, you are going to make your average wealth that's $11,000 for white person, 142,000. These are facts. These are hard, cold facts. He wants to remedy that.

[21:09:59] He is the first Republican candidate, in the words of Alan West, to stand on the stage and say I want to make this better for you. How am I going to do it? I'm going to bring $2.1 trillion back to this country. I'm going to empower African-American franchise owners who are powerful business owners in their communities. He has an argument, school choice. And rather than addressing the question, how are Hillary's policies going to be different than Barack Obama's, you have not heard once the answer to that question. They are marginalizing his outreach.

COOPER: Is Hillary Clinton silent on this issue?

ANGELA RYE, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Absolutely not. I think that we can look at Hillary Clinton's record when she wasn't running for office. Her consistent outreach to communities of color where they were talking about working with Marian Wright Edelman with the Children's Legal Defense Fund or registering black and brown voters in Texas who were disenfranchised by Republicans. I think across the board, whether you're talking about what Donald Trump Jr. said on the interview, when he mentioned what do we have to lose and we couldn't be worse off, that is so tone deaf. It is so untrue.

When I think about what happened in Flint, just over the course of the last year, there is a Democratic mayor, a Democratic mayor that was pleading with the governor to fix the lead in the water of these poor families. That is not a Democratic policy. That is the gross negligence of a Republican governor. Republican governors, they sit in 34 seats in this country. We have Republican run state legislatures, House and Senate all throughout the country.

COOPER: Scottie?

SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Once again, specifics. How is Hillary Clinton going to help the 1.3 million more African-Americans who are in poverty today than Barack Obama first came to office in 2009? We don't hear specific policies.

RYE: Let me answer it because, I think ...

HUGHES: Please do.

RYE: Thanks, Scottie. Happy to.


RYE: So here's the challenge. These are not policies that came about under Barack Obam, which you will never hear from the Trump campaign, is an ability to address systemic oppression and racism. That is the root cause of these policies. It is a bipartisan problem, Scottie. This isn't something that I'm laying at the feet of Republicans and it's not something that I'm just going to squarely lay at the feet of Democrats. Racism is real in this country and it is a result of slavery, it is a result of the Jim Crow south, it is a result of segregationist policies. That is where we have to deal with. And until we can acknowledge that that in fact exists, we're going to continue to have these problems regardless of ...

HUGHES: You're blaming unemployment, because, you know, unemployment ...

RYE: Well, I'm not -- that's not what I just said.

HUGHES: You're blaming that on racism. You're still not telling me specific policies Hillary Clinton is saying. We can tell you, Donald Trump talks about school choice, education, letting parents decide what is best for their children.

COOPER: You're saying Hillary Clinton doesn't talk about education?


HUGHES: You don't hear -- bring it up. You don't ...

RYE: I don't have time to give you a State of the Union Address.

HUGHES: I ask you specifics.

RYE: Scottie, you're sitting in a chair as a panelist just like me. What I address ...

HUGHES: I can give you specifics. You can't.

RYE: OK. If that's what you think, you're ridiculous.

COOPER: Karine ...

JEAN-PIERRE: Look, there's always this argument about why do African- Americans go with the Democratic Party. They go to the Democratic Party because they're actually a large constituency of the Democratic Party. They actually have leadership roles in the Democratic Party. The Republican Party doesn't do that. They don't talk about policies for the African-American community. African-Americans are actually sophisticated, smart voters, just like white voters vote for their self-interest, so does African-Americans.

One more thing I just want to say. Look, we talked about the poverty rate. Under Reagan, the poverty rate skyrocketed. It went down with Clinton. This is all proven. These are facts. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. Wait, hold on one second. Hold on one second. Let me just finish my point. And then, it went back up with Bush. And then went down with Obama. That is -- those are the facts.


JEAN-PIERRE: Yes, it did.

PATRICK HEALY, NEW YORK TIMES POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I was assigned day to day to cover Hillary Clinton's campaign in 2007-2008 and we covered her pretty closely the last two years. I've probably been to about 20 predominantly African-American churches with her covering her there. I've been in rooms where it's just been maybe her and five or six other people on a panel, some of them African-American, some of them whites, some of them Hispanic. I've seen her sort of countless times sort of go into cities, into neighborhoods, walk around. Granted, a lot of this is theater, a lot of it is stage managed, but she has gone into communities and she's listened as much as sort of talked to them.

Donald Trump would be in a much stronger political position if, over the last 14 months, he had made some kind of real effort to go out of his comfort zone, you know, not to simply fly in a jet to a rally and then come back to New York Every Night, but to go and sort of show that he was going to parts of America that ...

COOPER: Is this one of the limitations of the way he has ...

MCENANY: No. Patrick talks about Hillary Clinton going into these communities. Well, Donald Trump has actually brought the African- American community into his community.

[21:14:59] For instance, I'll give you the example of Jesse Jackson. This is a quote from a great civil rights leader. He said Donald Trump had the gusto for people on Wall Street to represent diversity. He gave my Rainbow PUSH Coalition a space at 40 Wall Street making a statement that our people and African-American community have a presence on Wall Street. He also brought African-Americans for the first time into Mar-A-Lago, was praised by Abe Foxman of the Anti- Defamation League who said he put the light on Palm Beach, not on the beauty and the glitter, but on the ...


HEALY: He's created jobs. Hillary Clinton has not created private sector jobs. And he is -- he's certainly given money from his millions or billions, or whatever it is.


HEALY: I think he's not doing what candidates do when they run for president, is they -- essentially they do a restart. They say I need to go and learn about the country, learn about what's happening in people's lives now. Not simply sit in a board room and have a track record creating some jobs, but going out into communities and hearing from them directly.

HUGHES: But has Hillary done that?

HEALY: Absolutely. Absolutely no question about this.

HUGHES: There are other communities that sides Evangelicals. Right now, Hillary Clinton is trailing at 17 percent with Evangelicals. Has Hillary reached out to Evangelicals around the country?

RYE: We need to correct the record just briefly. Jesse Jackson wrote a scathing op-ed today about Donald Trump. HUGHES: Today.

RYE: Yes, because ...

HUGHES: When there's politics involved.


RYE: But you know what? This is -- but hold on, because you guys like to compare Donald Trump to Martin Luther King. This was someone who was along -- right alongside Martin Luther King the day that he got shot, so it's actually really important. You should read the op- ed before you talk about the policies of it because the policies ...


HUGHES: This is all about politics ...

RYE: No, it isn't just about politics.


COOPER: I can't hear anything. Everybody's talking so I'm going to you at the commercial. I'm sorry. No one can hear what you guys are saying when you talking over. Sorry.

We'll focus next on immigration speech and how conservative voters are taking the mixed signals about whether the Trump policy is shifting.

And again, a Trump rally expected to start soon. We'll keep an eye on that as well and the protesters outside, some crowds gathering.

Later, a different kind of signal possibly from outer space. Why more than a few scientists are actually excited about what it might be and why some have their doubts as well. We'll be right.


[21:20:48] COOPER: The breaking news tonight. Donald Trump Jr. saying his father will not be budging in his speech tomorrow night on his signature campaign issue, immigration policy, not even from his promise to deport each person who is in this country illegally.

He said his father's policy has not changed for months. However, he did indicate it could be implemented a step at a time. Baby steps was his term. Whoever the plan turns out to be comes with no shortage, the expectations that our Randi Kaye discovered on a conservative talk radio air waves in Chicago.


DAN PROFIT, CO-HOST AM 560 THE ANSWER: Diane and Amy, simple question. What do you want to hear Trump say on immigration in his speech tomorrow?

RANDI KAYE, CNN NEW YORK BASED CORRESPONDENT: It's 8:00 a.m. in Chicago at conservative radio station, "AM 560 The Answer".

Co-hosts Dan Profit and Amy Jacobson fielding calls from listeners, anxious to weigh in on Donald Trump's upcoming immigration speech.

PROFIT: Lee and Haman, what do you want to hear Donald Trump say tomorrow?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I think Trump needs to talk about border security. Until you have controlled of that border, it doesn't really make a difference what you do.

PROFIT: Ralph (ph) and Randolph (ph)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to hear him talk about border security because it doesn't matter how many you deport. Without a border, they all crawl back in.

PROFIT: I think it's really, really focused on border security which is why the wall has such an appeal. It's not the wall itself, it's the idea so somebody has being serious about border security.

KAYE: Callers like the idea of Trump building a wall and hope to hear more specifics about it in his speech.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to hear Donald say that he's going to build the wall because one day there'll be another Democrat in office, and he's going to let the floodgates open again.

KAYE: Some callers want to hear Trump take a harder line with employers, insisting they use an online verification system to determine if potential employees can legally work in the U.S.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want Trump to say that he's going to implement E-Verify in threaten imprisonment for employers that hire these people. They're just giving these people sanctuary in a job. It's no different than this other cities.

KAYE: On the question of what to do with the 11 million people Trump once promised to round up, none of the callers are pushing for amnesty. Though some do say Trump needs to be more compassionate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to hear that Trump will be sympathetic towards those who came here for a better life, but I think we need to hold those people to a higher standard and drug test people that have been on the government dole for five, 10, 20 years.

KAYE: Other callers want Trump to limit the rights of those who came here illegally.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you're living here and you're productive but you don't vote for five years.

KAYE: One caller named Steve would like to hear this mandate.

STEVE: If they're here and they're going to get -- if they're going to be allowed to stay, they ought to be speaking English in the first place.

KAYE: How is that make you feel?

AMY JACOBSON, CO-HOST "AM 560 THE ANSWER": That's not a reality and that makes me feel as if a lot of Republicans that are supporting Donald Trump are a little bit racist. You can't force somebody to speak English.

KAYE: Perhaps, it's the caller named Phil who had the most unique idea for Trump's speech.

PHIL: And if you're going to send anyone out of the country, you can start sending the liberals out. That'd be a good start for me.

KAYE: And if Donald Trump does soften his immigration plan, some listeners won't be deterred.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If he changed his mind or modulated, I would still vote for him because nothing is worse than Hillary.

KAYE: Randi Kaye, CNN, Chicago.


COOPER: Well, it's safe to say plenty of people in all sides of the issue are going to be paying attention to what Donald Trump says tomorrow night in Phoenix.

Back again with the panel. Also joining us is Lanhee Chen, CNN Political Commentator, former Mitt Romney Public Policy Director and Research Fellow at Stanford University's Hoover Institution.

Lanhee, do you think it makes sense for Donald Trump -- I mean, it seems like particularly talking is going to be focusing on the border security issue which most of the people who have voted for Donald Trump, that is -- if you listen to the radio and what we're hearing from voters, that's what they most like.

LANHEE CHEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. This is not controversial at all. Every Republican immigration reform plan has included something about border security.

The question is, do you do border security first, do you sequence it then and then deal with the 11 million or do you do it simultaneously? I think that's always been the question.

But to deal with border security is not controversial. And in fact, I think a lot of Republicans will say, good, that we should.

COOPER: It's interesting, Kayleigh, because I mean, I think during the primaries, Donald Trump spoke about it all kind of as a piece. They're now clear.

I mean, Donald Trump Jr. today were saying, you know, baby steps, first you got to do border security, and then we'll see. [21:25:00] You know, another from the campaign have said, we'll see what happens down the road. But still, you know, deportations, everybody's got to leave, the good ones can come back.

Does that make sense to you? To focus on the wall which seems to be for his supporters the most popular?

MCENANY: Oh, undoubtedly. You know, he's listening to voters and just in that anecdotal piece we just heard, voters are most focused on the wall. That's what they want. They want criminal illegal aliens out of the country. So that is his focus. That it's a position of security contrast that to Hillary Clinton who still, you know, has not said what her plan is. I've yet to hear her, give a detailed immigration speech. I've yet to hear her say how she's going to stop tens of thousands of criminal illegal aliens from being released as we saw the Obama Administration do.

There's a clear choice for voters. And it's a poster of security with Donald Trump and protecting your families and it's a poster of weakness on the part of Hillary Clinton.

COOPER: There has been, Scottie, or maybe you disagree. Does it seem to you that there has been something in the last week or two for the Trump campaign whether it's in decision or some people advising the Trump campaign that maybe you got to soften a little bit?

I mean, if nothing -- if there hadn't been any feedback for Donald Trump, why was he mentioning anything about a softening? Why was he even talking about well, you know, I'm talking to a lot of people, they say you got to be, you know, you got to be gentler so now -- I mean ....

HUGHES: For two weeks, Anderson, we have been talking about immigration. Some people might say, yeah but it's about not being clarified, bad communication.

But we've been talking about immigration. Once again, the spotlight is on immigration and tomorrow night, the entire country is going to watch Donald Trump to see exactly what his plan is.

This is one of his strongest issues. And so, tomorrow night, if he comes out, giving the solid speech that I'm pretty sure he will, as he said, all along, all year long, he has the entire attention focused back on him.

There's two issues people vote for Donald Trump for immigration, the economy. I'll add security in there as well. Those three issues right there. This is one of his key issues. I think this is actually -- he's been kind of teasing it for the last two weeks, making sure that tomorrow night, the entire country's paying attention.

COOPER: Karine, is that a strategy he's been using to see ...


COOPER: ... or is there some -- do you see some sort of indecisions? JEAN-PIERRE: Not at all, not at all. The reason why we're talking about immigration is because he made immigrant bashing the hallmark of his campaign. That's how he launched his campaign. Yes, it is, that's exactly what he did.

And so, it's softening or hardening, this is all hypocritical. All of this is hypocrisy that we are seeing here. And it actually is insulting to the -- to 11 million undocumented workers that are here, to voters that are trying to figure out, hey, what is it that you are trying to do? He can't even talk about mechanisms. Donald Trump Jr. was not even able to talk about that. None of the surrogates were able to talk about that. So, it goes ...

COOPER: Well, I mean -- I mean, to somebody worked on campaigns, I mean, should somebody at this point a presidential candidate, at this point of the race would be able to say very specifically what their policy is for 11 million undocumented workers?

CHEN: Well, I think they should be able to have a little bit more meat on the bones than we've seen in the Trump policy so far. I mean, what's staggering to me, Anderson, is why they would be trying to make the shift now.

I mean, the things that Donald Trump has already said on immigration, those are going to cause him a lot of problems down the road. So, why then now make the shift?

It's unclear to me who he is trying to satisfy by doing this if he is indeed going to shift. And then if he doesn't, then you've got a bunch of people thinking, well, why did he ever then raise the idea or float the possibility that he would shift? The whole thing is being seemed completely incoherent.

HUGHES: It's simple. It's just separation between him and Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton, who, 2006, actually voted for a wall. She's not clarified whether or not she supports securing the border even though her voting record says that she actually funded to build a wall.

She's the one that has not clarified whether or not she believes in separating family and deporting children back to their homeland in order to deter other children as she stated in previous.

What about driver's license for illegals? In the past, she has said that she did not support giving driver's license for illegals, but yet just recently on the campaign trail, she thinks (inaudible) the driver's license. We don't know talk about flip-flopping on issues. We don't know Hillary Clinton's issues. Maybe if I went to one of her fund-raisers, I would hear exactly what she wanted because that's the only people she seems to be talking to.

JEAN-PIERRE: Look, this is a guy at a Fox town hall gave a survey, right, to the crowd, to the audience and said, what should I do, should I forcibly deport or not? That does not sound like a person who's running for president that has a clear vision of immigration comprehend -- immigration reform. So, it's wild to me. I mean, this is -- you can't leave these types of decisions to strangers, to audience and that's what he did. This is the type of person we're talking about.

MCENANY: I can give you four points right off the bat. One, building a wall, Mexico is paying for it. Two, enforcing E-Verify, three, everyone who wants to be a citizen has to leave and come back.

I'd still -- I've asked Hillary surrogates 10 times over, give me the four points of her plan. They're not out there. They don't exist. She doesn't have one.

COOPER: But you're saying that he's been very clear. But again, what they're hearing now is baby steps on the 11 million who are here. That's not what we heard during the primaries. We heard a very clear, very strong, they all got to go. The good ones could come back, there'll be a door in the wall, it'll be done humanely, there'll be a deportation force.

[21:30:01] But, it does seem like we're not -- I mean, baby steps is different than what it was before, isn't it?

MCENANY: You have to have priorities. We look at Barack Obama ...

COOPER: Well, I get that. I'm not saying you can't -- shouldn't have baby steps. But that's not what we heard early on.

MCENANY: He's being realistic. Look at President Obama, he promised the world single payer. Thank goodness, we never got it. He was not realistic with voters as to what he could achieve. Donald Trump is being realistic.


MCENANY: He says Republican voters care about this. They care about criminals living in the country. They care about border security. In contrast, Hillary Clinton is going to purvey the same weakness we've seen from President Obama.

COOPER: All right. I want to thank very one. More breaking news, CNN can now call another election race. We're projecting that Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz will win her Democratic Primary in Florida's 23rd Congressional District.

Coming up next, more of my interview with Donald Trump Jr., what he has to say about his dad's chances of winning, when we continue.


COOPER: More now with my interview today with Donald Trump Jr. I asked him about the campaign's most recent shake-up, the polls that show his dad trailing Hillary Clinton in many states, the union vote, whether there are some chunk of voters out there that somehow isn't being represented in the polling. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: As you see the campaign where it is right now, I mean, are you happy with it? It is ...

TRUMP JR: I'm very happy with it, Anderson. I mean, if you look at the trends, if you look at where the trends are going, where the numbers are going in the last few weeks, I think it's, you know, been steadily on the rise. I didn't have a lot ...

[21:35:05] COOPER: The new management, you like Kellyanne Conway?

TRUMP JR: I love them. I think the new management is, you know, doing great. And again, you know, I think you're going to see a lot of nontraditional, you know, voters coming out and voting for my father. If you look at, you know, the hard-working union labor of this country that's, you know, always being told by their bosses to vote Democrat, you know, those guys aren't going into the booth and polling ...

COOPER: Right, because a lot of leadership of union are going for Hillary Clinton ...

TRUMP JR.: Well, the leadership -- because the leadership bought and paid for like, you know, like the rest of, you know ...

COOPER: But rank and file is going to ...

TRUMP JR.: The rank and files are going, you know, they get it. I think if there's one thing that my father has been able to do in this election is, you know, expose just that, you know, the ridiculousness and the fraud at the top in the elite frankly on both sides.

COOPER: So, the polls that are showing your dad trailing Hillary Clinton both in, you know, key states but also just nationwide, do you believe there are voters out there who are not showing up in the polls?

TRUMP JR.: I think there's voters that aren't showing up in the polls. Again, I'm not sure that accounts for the entire deficit in some of the places where there's deficits. But again, if I look at the trend and I see where things are going, and I see where, you know, we have 75 left -- days left. You know, in my world in business, building buildings, that's an eternity. I'm sorry, that's an, you know, but in politics it's a long time. I think ...

COOPER: People's opinions are already formed in both things.

TRUMP JR.: Yeah. I think there's a lot of people that we can win over. I think when you look at, you know, just -- the stuff that's come out about the Clinton Foundation, the e-mails that continue to leak, when you look at just the general, you know, haze around, you know, Hillary Clinton and the ridiculousness of what it is. Again, I think, you know, she's got most of the media as her number one surrogate. I mean, if a Republican had these controversies coming out, I mean, they wouldn't be able to walk down the street, let alone run for the presidency of the United States of America.

COOPER: She's ...

TRUMP JR.: And those things, you know, and more and more come out. And now, another 15,000 magically appear, you know, after she gets the best technology in existence, the Snowden stuff to wipe her hard drive clean. And, you know, I mean, she's perpetrating fraud on the American people and we're getting -- you were saying, oh, it's great. She's a wonderful person. I mean ...

COOPER: She has had, you know ...

TRUMP JR.: And you guys are finally, finally starting to come out with it. But, you know, if someone else that was a conservative in her position had those same issues, it would be over and would have been over a long time ago.

COOPER: The flip side of that, though, is -- and again, we hear this from Republicans who are not in support of your dad is, is your dad the best messenger for that anti-Clinton message? When -- I mean, he gave more than $100,000 to the Clinton Foundation, you know, she went to his wedding.

TRUMP JR.: Exactly.

COOPER: You know.

TRUMP JR.: Exactly.


COOPER: If it was to play, was he involved in that?

TRUMP JR.: Over 50 percent of the people that got meetings with her while she was our chief diplomat ...

COOPER: Right.

TRUMP JR.: ... were major donors. 85 people don't ...

COOPER: If your dad was one of those people, what does that say about him?

TRUMP JR.: But he didn't ask for anything. She even try to have a meeting with him. She showed up to a wedding. There's a big difference. But, when, you know, foreign governments say, they can't get a meeting, all of a sudden, they write a multi-million dollar check and they're in the State Department, I mean, that's disgusting, Anderson. We're selling, you know, our children's future to these people who haphazardly donate to a foundation. By the way, and a foundation that charity navigator and a lot of the other big, you know, companies that rate charities for efficiency, make sure your money is being well spent. They won't even look at it because they don't know where the money goes. You know, this is -- it's a big farce. And everyone's finally touching on it a little bit.

COOPER: But your dad, I mean Kellyanne Conway says it does a great work? TRUMP JR.: Right, listen. Yet, no one knows where it goes. You know, most of his ...

COOPER: Millions of people have HIV medicine because of them.

TRUMP JR.: Right, of course. Of the hundreds of millions have raise, I'm sure a couple dollars have been spent the right way. And yet millions haven't. You know, you talked about the people in Haiti who were ...

COOPER: Right.

TRUMP JR.: ... uprisings about the housing that was supposed to be built from -- guess what? Two houses I think were built. What was the number of the "millions" that they were going to do? Come on, Anderson. You and I, if we were looking at a charity to donate money to, we wouldn't be donating there. OK, today. We wouldn't be donating, now that we've shed light on it.

COOPER: Why did your dad then?

TRUMP JR.: Years ago we didn't know. We probably assumed that you did great work, OK. Now that it's been uncovered, now that she's running for a higher office, now that -- even the "New York Times" her number one surrogate probably in the history of her campaign, you know, is saying, you know, listen, maybe don't wait for the election, maybe you have to get away from this thing right now.

COOPER: And the bottom line, though ...

TRUMP JR.: And that should say something, I mean ...

COOPER: ... with 70 some days, your confident, your -- you feel good.

TRUMP JR.: I feel really good.

COOPER: Thanks so much.

TRUMP JR.: My pleasure. Good to be with you.


COOPER: I should just point out for the record, CharityWatch gave the Clinton Foundation an A, said that about 80 percent of the money raised was actually spent on things as opposed to 75 percent which is often for many charities.

Coming up, a major casualty in the fight against ISIS. One of its most senior figures, one who is thought to have led the arm of ISIS that threatens the west has been killed. What we know, coming up next.


[21:43:22] COOPER: Tonight a senior ISIS figure, perhaps second only to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, he has been killed. It's the highest profile killing of an ISIS member so far. The group itself confirmed that Muhammad al-Adnani is dead. He was a spokesman, the most public figure in the terror group and one who is believed to have been the overseer for the division of ISIS that carried out the attacks in Paris.

Our Senior International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson joins me with the latest. So who exactly is this guy and do we know how he was killed?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, Anderson. Perhaps the easiest way to understand who he was is this is the guy who spoke to all sort of al-Qaeda -- ISIS acolytes around the world. And sort of extorted them to come to -- to come join the fight in Iraq and Syria, but it's also the same man that called for ISIS one of this two attack in their home countries. He threatened of heightened attacks by ISIS in advance of Ramadan this year. Then you have the attack of the Pulse Nightclub in Orlando, not long after that. He is the same man that called and said, if you can't shoot them, if you can't stab them, if you can't burn them, crush their heads with rocks and if you can't do that, then drive your vehicles over them. And it's very clear to see the connection between that and what we saw in this in Nice, in France where more than 80 people were mowed down by an ISIS acolyte driving a huge truck.

So this is a guy whose voice carried. It had influence. He was the voice and to some degree, the face of ISIS around the world for their supporters.

COOPER: And do we know how he was killed? And he was with ISIS from, I think, nearly the beginning, right?

ROBERTSON: Yeah. ISIS has kind of been, if you will, sort of PR Savvy on this one. They got ahead of the news themselves.

[21:45:00] They said that he was dead before anyone else said it which kind of indicates that this was some piece of bad news that they didn't want to leave anyone else to sort of, if you will, in their mind claim a victory over them. It does appear that the Pentagon now saying that they did have a targeted air strike in this same area where ISIS is saying that Adnani was killed and the Pentagon saying that they were targeting Adnani. They don't say they have firm confirmation yet of his death but the two things marry up. So, ISIS was trying to get ahead of this, and in their eyes, denied the United States the ability to say we got him. They went ahead and publicized it.

COOPER: And it's believed -- I mean, he really was second only to al- Baghdadi?

ROBERTSON: Yeah, he was a very key player, very close to Baghdadi. Look, his roots with Baghdadi in Iraq although he's Syrian and the most key player in ISIS because he was sort of one of the most senior, or if not, the most senior Syrian figure within ISIS. But his roots fighting the U.S. forces in Iraq go back to at least 2005. He knew Baghdadi for an extended period back then when they were fighting together in Iraq. So he would have been trusted by Baghdadi and certainly a very senior figure.

We know that the operation of ISIS involve, you know, a number of sort of surer councils that run various things from finances to military to, you know, to civilian operations. But he was a very, very close figure and a very important figure to Baghdadi and ISIS as an institution.

COOPER: Nic Robertson. Nic, appreciate the reporter -- appreciate the reporting.

Just ahead, we got some breaking news that we're going to be bringing you. "The Washington Post" reporting and CNN also reporting that Donald Trump may be going to Mexico on Wednesday in advance of his immigration speech. We'll bring you all the latest on that in just a moment.


[21:50:44] COOPER: More breaking news, possibly a big splash in advance of the immigration speech tomorrow night. Before Donald Trump takes the stage in Phoenix, he could be making a stop first in Mexico.

"New York Times" Patrick Healy is back along with CNN Politics Executive Editor Mark Preston and the panel.

Mark, what are you learning?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: So we're learning now that Donald Trump is actually thinking about going to Mexico before going and delivering the speech up in Arizona, Anderson. This would be unprecedented, historic, the fact that he would even do so.

And we're actually hearing right now from the President of Mexico saying that he had extended invitations to both candidates last Friday but no one has confirmed any meetings yet. And we've been told, and I've told that we should know within the next couple hours whether Donald Trump will in fact make a detour, go to Mexico City, meet with the President of Mexico, and then move onward to Arizona for his speech.

COOPER: Patrick, any other details?

HEALY: Yeah, on Sunday, when Donald Trump was out in New Jersey with his team doing debate prep, this was discussed. Steve Bannon, you know, his new chief executive was saying that this could be the kind of move to set up the immigration speech to show that, you know, Donald Trump is trying to sort of reach out to have conversations. He's not just going to lecture the people. That Mr. Trump was very intrigued by this. He sort of asked, you know, can this come about.

He's used to be able to sort of fly to places and make an impact.

COOPER: There's Secret Service concerns.

HEALY: That Secret Service concerns are significant here. And it was -- it's been unclear so far but "New York Times" colleagues and I have confirmed the planning about where the visit would take place, who would be there, you know, the sort of the screening that would take place between the two countries. You know, it's fairly unusual.

COOPER: It's also pretty quick. I mean, an overseas trip like this usually, I assume, would be planned out much more.

HEALY: There's a great deal that there's usually advanced planning.

COOPER: Right.

HEALY: There's folks that are scattered out. I mean, the Secret Service detail that Mr. Trump has is relatively small. You need to have people in place, you know, to scramble in Mexico City if it were to happen there.

You know but it's also, to some extent, sort of the politics of this, you know, it's relatively uncontrolled for Mr. Trump. He would conceivably have to be standing there at some point with the President of Mexico who conceivably, you know, might be stepping on his whole message on immigration if he's going to say something like there's no way Mexico is going to pay for your wall, sir, something like that.

COOPER: Right, I mean that it does run the -- I mean, for the president of Mexico ...

HEALY: It's great.

COOPER: ... he's faced with does he go after Donald Trump?

HEALY: Right.

COOPER: I mean, does he go after -- because, I mean, he has said some very tough stuff about Donald Trump. Does he publicly confront Donald Trump? I mean, how is that, you know?

PRESTON: Right. So, here's the big problem, when it comes to logistics, when you do a foreign trip like this, at least two or three weeks where they send out advance teams to even just have where the motorcade where it's going to be, right? So that in itself ...

COOPER: It would be at the airport in Mexico City so there's not even an issue, I mean, you know.

PRESTON: Yeah, right, and it could at the presidential palace. I mean, you know, we just don't know. But in addition to that, though, you're going to have the media now focused all on this meeting tomorrow in Mexico should it happen, and maybe it would take away from his speech in Arizona. Quite frankly, take away from the e-mail situation that Hillary Clinton continues to be mired in right now. It tends to put a cloud over that as well.

COOPER: A foreign trip is always risky for any presidential candidate. We saw -- we've seen that in presidential races in the past. But it also could come with some big pluses for Donald Trump.

MCENANY: Absolutely. And as we've seen with Donald Trump, he doesn't do the political mathematics of a conventional candidate. What we've seen him do repeatedly is act as a commander-in-chief. Be that going down and visiting the flood sites when Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were out on Martha's Vineyard. She was out a birthday party. Barack Obama was taking vacation. Or in this case, going down and meeting with the president of Mexico, President Nieto. Sitting down and realizing that in less than six months Donald Trump is going to have to renegotiate NAFTA. He will be doing that with President Neito.

COOPER: Well with 70 days to go before presidential election everything is political. I mean, nobody is -- no candidate for president is not thinking about political calculations.

MCENANY: Donald Trump has risen to the commander-in-chief test. Time and time again when our President was absent, Donald Trump was there. And this is another example of Hillary not taking the invitation to meet with President Nieto, one of the most important people outside of the U.S. government that will determine our border security, that will determine the terms of NAFTA, that will determine if American factory owners go to Mexico ...

COOPER: One moment, they're paying for the wall too.


HEALY: All right, given to the fact that Donald Trump is not pretty like your usual politician, that can blow up in his face. I mean, he faced up with Ted Cruz where, at the convention in July, where he was sort of trying to get an endorsement, what would he say? I mean, sort of the -- there's big risk, big reward. You at least have to say that.

[21:55:11] COOPER: Right, I mean, is this a mistake for Hillary Clinton not to have taken up and meet the Mexican president?

JEAN-PIERRE: Look, you know, Donald Trump has spent a year insulting Mexicans and Mexican-Americans. This is the last-ditch desperate attempt to try to present himself as a world leader. The Donald Trump of, you know, 14 months ago is still the same Donald Trump of today.

RYE: Or 14 hours ago. And I think to this point, this isn't just about him going to meet with the President because he wants to solve for calling Mexicans drug dealers, rapist or questioning (inaudible). He's got some making up to do in the polls with brown voters. And so, I think it has everything do with that. I also think we should correct the record and say it sounds like Hillary Clinton hasn't accepted the invitation yet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She usually follows the lead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She always follows on.


RYE: That is probably the only place where she's following him ...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's part of every ...


COOPER: CNN's Phil Mattingly at a Trump event tonight in Everett, Washington. He joins us now.

Phil, has any word reached there about this possible trip?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It hasn't reached the crowd yet. But, Anderson, I can tell you right now, the reporters are all taking in formal polls to see who actually brought their passports with them to the Pacific Northwest. But look, you don't really -- it's tough to manage expectations any higher than Donald Trump has for the speech tomorrow.

And I can tell you, Anderson, in talking to the crowd as they lined up before this event here in Everett, everyone was talking about the speech tomorrow. Everybody was very interested in what he had to say. Everybody was asking me if I had any insight to what that speech was all about.

And I think it's very interesting because obviously immigration has been a huge issue for Donald Trump throughout this campaign. But his die-hard supporters, well, they are kind of wavering on their support and all, Anderson. They're all paying a very keen eye to what he has to say tomorrow.

And when you add the possibility of this trip to that, well, they weren't aware of it when I was talking to them before. It only magnifies the importance of this moment for his campaign. So, if they're trying to downplay it at all, they're not doing a very good job, Anderson.

COOPER: Well, Phil, certainly, I mean, I was up in New Hampshire at a Trump event a couple days ago, it is still part of his key speech and rallies about building a wall and it is still a very, very popular line.

MATTINGLY: Yeah, there's no question about it. It's kind of his key line. You see shirts throughout the crowd right now that says "Wall building construction corp." It's a crucial component of his campaign. I think that's why you've seen him continue to repeat over and over again as there's been questions about where he stands on deportation. The wall will always be there.

Now, the question comes if he does decide to make this trip to Mexico City is the Mexican President Pena Nieto has been very clear, Mexico will not be paying for that wall. I can promise you tonight, Anderson, like almost every rally, Donald Trump will talk about the wall and then he will ask the crowd who's going to pay for it and everybody will yell out Mexico. It could be problematic if Donald Trump is in Mexico City tomorrow, Anderson.

COOPER: Yeah. Let's go back to our panel. Phil Mattingly, thanks very much. I mean, it is -- we have seen in the past presidential races where a candidate has gone overseas hoping to kind of bolster foreign credentials and it can backfire.

PRESTON: It can backfire. Look at Mitt Romney went overseas back in 2011, I guess it was, 2012, rather, 2012, and it didn't go very well. He was in London and they were upset that when he was talking about the Olympics and the security, he said it was lax and the rest of the trip didn't go very well when he went into Eastern Europe. But we don't often see presidential candidates going to Mexico. You know, I think that Mitt Romney might have gone to Canada, right, I think, might have been his first foreign trip back 2012.

HEALY: Right. And usually these are so scripted.

PRESTON: So scripted.


HEALY: And it's fascinating. I mean, Donald Trump is kind of walking into what a lot of people see as both sort of the tinderbox of this campaign.

COOPER: It could be that, I mean, it's fascinating.


HEALY: No question, you know, but it's going into what a lot of people see as his greatest vulnerability. But also plays to strength of someone who presents himself as sort of a take-charge, you know, kind of ...


HEALY: ... gutsy.

HUGHES: I think, you know, we have a problem with our neighbor in America today. And this is Mr. Trump saying instead of going all around the bureaucracy of the city commission, I'm going to go straight to my neighbor and let's see if we can work this out. He's a problem solver.

COOPER: Is that what it comes out today.

JEAN-PIERRE: Well, look, having worked on at a national and local political campaigns, a trip like this is really, I mean, you got to be politically smart about it. You really have to strategize. And it usually takes weeks before you can actually execute this. I mean, he can go there and be protested. Like, there could be protesters there. And why shouldn't they, right?

COOPER: Well, I mean the President of Mexico could go ...


JEAN-PIERRE: Exactly, exactly. COOPER: Well, this is the most ridiculous thing.

JEAN-PIERRE: That's exactly right. Look what the former president said ...

COOPER: Right.

JEAN-PIERRE: ... of Mexico said ...


[21:59:59] COOPER: I want to thank all our panelists. That's it for us. Time now for "CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon.