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CNN TONIGHT

Clinton Gives New Medical Info, Trump Talks to Dr. Oz; Colin Powell's Leaked E-mail. Aired 11p-12a ET

Aired September 14, 2016 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[23:00:00] DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: The race tightens we're learning more tonight about Clinton's health and her pneumonia diagnosis, while Trump reveals new health information in an interview with TV's Dr. Oz and says this in his rally in Ohio tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't know, folks. You think Hillary would be able to stand up here for an hour and do this? I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Plus, have you ever wondered what Colin Powell -- what he really thinks? Well, now we know courtesy of his leaked e-mails. The former secretary of state not so diplomatic calling Donald Trump a national disgrace and an international pariah. That hurts.

And what does he say about Hillary Clinton, quote, "Everything HRC touches she kind of screws up with hubris."

And that's not all he says. We've got more tonight. So here to discuss all of this CNN Politics executive editor, Mr. Mark Preston, CNN political commentator Jeffrey Lord, a Trump supporter, and "Newsweek's" Kurt Eichenwald, author of "500 Days: Secrets and Lies in the Terror Wars."

I'm so glad to have all of you here this evening. Remember, he says 500 days. 55 days.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's it.

LEMON: Fifty-five more days. Yes. Mark, I want to start with these brand new -- these polls out from the battleground states. Florida, among likely voters in Florida, Donald Trump is ahead three points, and in Ohio Trump is five points ahead of Hillary Clinton. Good news for Trump.

What do these numbers say about the electoral map and getting to the road to 270?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR: Well, 55 days left and this is a trend we've seen not in the last couple of days but in the last couple of weeks. Hillary Clinton came out of the convention eight points up nationally. We had a CNN poll come out a couple of weeks ago that showed that that had evaporated and of course that is lagging indicator when we look at the state polls.

Here's the problem right now for Hillary Clinton, specifically in these two states of Florida and Ohio. First of all for voters that are under 45 years old, these are supposed to be Clinton voters in the state of Ohio. It's awash right now. That is not good for her. In the state of Florida, she's only up six points.

Let's take a step back, though. The fact is, if the election were held today, she would still win. She does not need to win Florida and Ohio and the reason being is that Democrats have done well in the states out west.

LEMON: OK. So she's expected to be back on the campaign trail tomorrow. Of course she suffered this bout and is still suffering with pneumonia. She released new medical information today.

Is it fair to say that we now have more information on Hillary Clinton as a -- you know in regards to medical records and taxes than we do on Donald Trump?

PRESTON: We do until we see what -- what Donald Trump releases tomorrow. But, look, I mean, you know, the bottom line is they -- neither candidate is expected to meet the McCain standards certainly on health records where -- you know this prisoner of war who had cancer allowed reporters in, including our own Sanjay Gupta to go in and look at a detailed history of his health. Neither candidate seems willing to do that. And then of course I don't think we're ever going to see Donald Trump's taxes.

LEMON: We have decades of Clinton taxes, Jeffrey. We have her more detailed records. Is the pressure on for Donald Trump to meet that same standard? Because we have zero of his taxes.

LORD: No. And I keep saying, I don't think he should release them. I mean, I think at this point, you know, every president of the United States up until Richard Nixon didn't release taxes, not that George Washington had to deal with income tax.

LEMON: Richard Nixon is a long time ago. A long time ago.

LORD: Are you saying something about me, Don?

LEMON: Yes. Yes, the world is a different place. There was no Internet, there was no cell phone.

LORD: Right. Right.

LEMON: Phones had dials back then.

LORD: This is --

LEMON: There were cords.

LORD: I -- I just think that what we've got here is this has turned into a political gotcha game for all the candidates. Release your taxes and then we're going to focus on one thing over here and we're going to make the most of this and run for it. I don't -- I don't really think it serves any purpose anymore. I couldn't --

LEMON: You have -- you want Hillary Clinton to release her medical records?

LORD: The medical records may be a little bit different. They may be a little different. But in all candor, I'm not sure that releasing medical records is going to be anywhere near as graphic as the photos, the videos of her incident.

LEMON: Kurt Eichenwald, boy, I've been wanting to talk to you because everyone is arguing over your cover story for "Newsweek," looking at the Trump Organization and its ties to foreign businesses and governments. You said that U.S. foreign policy is at risk and if Trump is elected we could see the legal bribery of an American president.

Tell us what connections Americans should be most concerned about?

KURT EICHENWALD, AUTHOR, "500 DAYS: SECRETS AND LIES IN THE TERROR WARS": Well, I want to start off by pointing out, this goes right to the heart of what Jeffrey Lord is talking about, is, you know, let's keep things secret. We don't need to tell you.

Well, here's some of the stuff that we would see in Donald Trump's taxes that people are not aware of. There is money that is coming to Mr. Trump through a series of hundreds of partnerships, many of them that have partners overseas, partners who are not disclosed. I had to work to find each of these people, find each of these organizations just in 15 countries, and these partners have interest that often run directly contrary to the national security interest of the United States.

[23:05:06] So the result of Donald Trump not showing his taxes, more important, Donald Trump not showing who his partners are, is the American people are going to have to stand back with a man we don't know about his health, we don't know about his finances, we don't know about his business, and he's just going to say, trust me, I won't act in my financial interest even though it conflicts with national security interest of the United States.

LEMON: Jeffrey, is that what he's hiding, these foreign connections? Is that why he won't release his tax returns?

LORD: I don't -- no, I don't think so. And let me just say, we --

EICHENWALD: Have you seen the taxes, Jeffrey?

LORD: No, I haven't seen the taxes. But look, look --

EICHENWALD: Then how do you know what he's hiding?

LORD: Well, look, Kurt, we have heard other political families, the Kennedys. The Kennedys had a massive political --

EICHENWALD: The Kennedys did not operate a private company while they were -- John Kennedy did not operate a private company while he was president of the United States.

LORD: The Kennedys fueled their enterprises -- their political enterprises with money from the Merchandise Mart in Chicago.

EICHENWALD: So what?

LORD: So what? There's --

EICHENWALD: We're talking about a man that's president of the United States with overseas --

LORD: Kurt -- Kurt.

EICHENWALD: OK. Yes.

LORD: Kurt, if you're going to go in the conflict of interest route then the Kennedys had plenty of them. In my youth, I worked for John Heinz. The late Senator John Heinz.

EICHENWALD: But John Kennedy getting --

(CROSSTALK)

LORD: All over the world, the whole Heinz food thing, which he personally profited from. I mean, are you saying that my --

EICHENWALD: But John Kennedy --

LORD: -- that John Heinz had a conflict of interest?

LEMON: Go ahead, Kurt.

EICHENWALD: Was John Kennedy getting paid money by the political figures, by -- for example, let's take Azerbaijan, the son of Azerbaijan minister, a senior government official, is a Donald Trump partner. That senior government official, American intelligence believes that he's been engaged in laundering money for the Iranian military.

Did John Kennedy do that? Is John --

LORD: Nobody ---

EICHENWALD: Is Donald Trump going to act in the interest of the Azerbaijani partner or is he going to act in the interest of the United States?

LORD: No one accused John Kennedy of this because they didn't care in those days. Under the kind of rules you're playing --

EICHENWALD: Jeffrey, you are simply lying.

LORD: Under the kind of rules you're playing with right now.

EICHENWALD: There is nothing comparable about this.

LORD: John Kennedy would not have been able to be elected president.

LEMON: This is the bottom line. And again, you keep going back to Kennedy and -- I mean, Jeffrey, again, it's a different world now. There are different standards. There was no e-mail to hack back then.

LORD: What was the standard?

LEMON: The American people set the standard.

EICHENWALD: No, Don, it's actually beyond that.

LEMON: Yes.

EICHENWALD: He's trying to obfuscate what's going on here. There is nothing in the Kennedy experience that is anything like what we are talking about here.

LEMON: Yes.

EICHENWALD: Donald Trump has partners all over the world through the Trump Organization. They're not disclosing them. I found a bunch of them. They're in my report in "Newsweek." You can see what their conflicts are. And John Kennedy didn't have anything like this going on. No president in history has had --

LEMON: The question --

EICHENWALD: Let's not start talking about the Clintons. Let's stay on topic.

LEMON: The question to you, Jeffrey, is -- hang on.

EICHENWALD: There has never been a president in the history of the United States.

LEMON: Hold on, Kurt.

EICHENWALD: Who has had these kinds of conflicts of interest.

LEMON: OK, so then --

EICHENWALD: And we can address the actual topic or we can play the Clintons, Kennedys --

LEMON: Kurt, let me -- I need to ask Jeffrey a question.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I need to ask Jeffrey a question.

EICHENWALD: You're a glue. We can start discussing reality.

LEMON: Jeffrey, would you have wanted the Kennedys to reveal the sort of information so that the public could make their own assessment about it? That is the question. LORD: I don't think -- yes. I don't think it was relevant. I don't

think it was relevant then. We got through the Kennedy administration. He was one of my childhood heroes. I just don't think it was relevant. I don't think --

LEMON: You don't think it's relevant.

EICHENWALD: Excuse me, Jeffrey. What business --

(CROSSTALK)

LORD: What we're saying here is that if you're a billionaire with a global concern going, you should never be president of the United States. That's what we're saying. That's what Kurt is saying.

EICHENWALD: You're absolutely wrong. You can be president of the United States just like anybody else but you've got to decide, is your family going to be in business or they're going to be -- or are you going to be president? Are you going to set up a system where you can be paid by Russian oligarchs or are you going to be president of the United States?

Donald Trump can be president of the United States or he can -- his family can have an ownership of the Trump Organization. If they want to sever that relationship and end that conflict of interest, I have no concerns. If they want to try and do both, which is exactly what they're saying they're going to do, Donald Trump is talking about this nonsense of putting the Trump Organization in a blind trust managed by his children.

A blind trust is supposed to be independent and it's supposed to be a portfolio of investments.

LEMON: Yes.

EICHENWALD: We'll all know it's in the blind trust.

LEMON: Mark.

EICHENWALD: It's the Trump Organization.

LEMON: What are they saying they're going to do?

EICHENWALD: If he wants to sever his relationship, we're done. No problems. If he doesn't, big problems.

PRESTON: Right. Well, what Donald Trump has said over and over again -- has offered very few details but has said that he would take a step back, his three children, his four children, I suppose, would be -- would oversee the corporation as we know it right now.

The problem with the corporation right now is that we don't really understand how it's all set up. It's not set up as one big corporation, it's set up as multiple, multiple, multiple.

[23:10:07] LEMON: But aren't these the same people that are saying that the Clinton Foundation should be shut down?

PRESTON: Interestingly enough, yes, it is.

LEMON: But they don't think that the Trump Corporation should be handled differently but the Clinton -- isn't that a double standard?

LORD: The Clinton Foundation problems stem from her time as secretary of state. She was holding a government office, right?

EICHENWALD: This is completely different.

LEMON: But that's -- it's not -- yes.

EICHENWALD: This is -- we are talking about the difference between people giving money to a charity --

LORD: She was playing a role --

EICHENWALD: Can I please finish? We are talking about a person -- we're talking about an entity that receives money and then spends 90 percent of that money on charitable efforts. These are not comparable. This is a partnership with Donald Trump with the money going into the pockets of the Trump family. It's not going to AIDS drugs in Africa.

LORD: Or the Clinton family? Where do you think the speech invitations came from?

EICHENWALD: It's going from Donald Trump's new limousine.

LORD: I -- I mean look, I don't know -- Donald Trump's wealth is so well-established out there. I mean, he's been a public figure for heaven's sake for 40, 50 years, whatever it is. This is -- this is silly. No one is going to buy into this unless -- unless --

EICHENWALD: Then reveal the information. What's the to hide?

LORD: Unless you are a die-hard Hillary supporter, which you are, and that's perfectly fine.

LEMON: Yes. Well, I don't support either of them because that's not my role.

LORD: Not you.

LEMON: But I think that the American public deserves to know about who is running for president.

EICHENWALD: I'm sorry, I didn't know -- I didn't know doing actual reporting on Donald Trump --

LORD: Sure. Sure.

LEMON: The person they're going to choose.

EICHENWALD: -- meant you're a Hillary supporter. LORD: But he's not going to be running his company when he's

president of the United States.

EICHENWALD: It doesn't matter. He will still be a beneficiary and so will his children.

LORD: So -- again, let me say, so was my boss, John Heinz, the heir to the Heinz catsup fortune.

EICHENWALD: Who cares?

LORD: Who cares? He was a sitting United States senator.

EICHENWALD: He wasn't president of the United States. And we're talking about --

LORD: And he was getting money from all over the world from Heinz Global Enterprises.

EICHENWALD: And we're talking about a public company versus a private enterprise with secret partners all over the world who are in government. Read the piece, Jeffrey, because you clearly haven't.

LEMON: I have it right here, Kurt.

LORD: I did read your piece.

LEMON: Here it is right here. Thank you very much, everyone.

EICHENWALD: Then why are you pretending it says things it doesn't?

LEMON: I appreciate it. Thank you, all.

When we come right back, one Washington insider's unfiltered opinions of Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. Revelations from Colin Powell's leaked e-mails.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:15:51] LEMON: Colin Powell denouncing Donald Trump as a national disgrace and criticizing Hillary Clinton for what he calls her hubris. Hackers striking the former secretary of state and posting his personal e-mails online.

The story tonight from CNN's global affairs correspondent, Elise Labott -- Elise.

ELISE LABOTT, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS REPORTER: Well, Don, it's an unfiltered and an undiplomatic side to Colin Powell. The former secretary of state has avoided picking sides in the presidential race but we see from his hacked e-mails he's not thrilled about either candidate.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COLIN POWELL, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I also want to the debates. At least one debate.

LABOTT (voice-over): He's been pretty quiet during the presidential campaign, but privately former secretary of state Colin Powell is not holding back about the candidates. In e-mails hacked from his account and posted to the site DC Leaks, Powell describes Donald Trump as a, quote, "national disgrace and international pariah."

And aide to Powell confirmed to CNN that the e-mails are real. The retired four-star general and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff slams what he calls a racist crusade by Trump over President Obama's birth certificate. Lampooning this prediction --

TRUMP: At the end of the four years I guarantee you that I will get over 95 percent of the African-American vote. I promise you.

LABOTT: "A schizo fantasy," saying Trump takes us for idiots. But Powell is also lukewarm about Hillary Clinton, writing a friend in 2015, "Everything Hillary Rodham Clinton touches she kind of screws up with hubris. I'd rather not have to vote for her, although she's a friend I respect," Powell said, criticizing Clinton's unbridled ambition and calling her greedy and not transformational. He added an off-color insult about her marriage to Bill Clinton.

Powell also resented being dragged into Clinton's e-mail scandal. After the FBI revealed Clinton cited his advice as justification for her private server, Powell, according to one e-mail to a friend, told Clinton staff three times not to the try that gambit and then threw what he called a mini tantrum at a Hampton's party to get their attention.

In an interview with CNN last month, Clinton was on damage control.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He was incredibly gracious and helpful after I was nominated and before I took the job.

LABOTT: But Powell dismissed the Republican firestorm against Clinton over the 2012 attacks in Benghazi as a stupid witch hunt, though it didn't absolve her or Ambassador Chris Steven who was killed in the attack. In an e-mail to his successor, Condoleezza Rice, he writes, "Basic fault faults on a courageous ambassador," adding blame also rests on his leaders in Washington. And yes, HRC. Rice responded, "Completely agree."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LABOTT: These leaks came from DC Leaks on the same day a hacker by alias Guccifer 2.0 released more information from the Democratic National Committee. Now experts have pointed to Russian state elements as actors behind those DNC leaks.. No word yet on any ties to the hacking of Powell's account -- Don.

LEMON: All right, Elise. Thank you very much.

Up next, more about Colin Powell's leaked e-mails and the impact hackers are having on both sides in this presidential election.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:22:53] LEMON: Former secretary of state Colin Powell, the latest victim of hacking. His personal e-mails leaked online, e-mails calling Donald Trump a national disgrace and blasting Hillary Clinton for hubris.

Here to discuss, CNN national security analyst, Juliette Kayyem, the author of "Security Mom," and political commentator Kevin Madden, a Republican strategist.

Good to have both of you on. Good evening.

Kevin, you first. Before we dig into the content of these e-mails I want to ask you about the impact of hacking in general that's having on this election. It's -- because it's totally unchartered territory.

KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It is, and I think a lot of people are looking at this election and seeing -- I mean, look, there's many new things that have happened in this election. I think this is one of them. But I think it also brings into play the idea that there are outside forces at work in this election. So many Americans have always believed that our democracy was more secure than other countries around the world and now because we see a nefarious actors outside of the United States trying to have an impact on that, many people are I think paying closer attention to some of the -- some of the news incidents and some of the reports about these hackers around the world who may be trying to effect the election.

LEMON: All right. Let's talk about these e-mails. Colin Powell endorsed Barack Obama over your candidate, which is Mitt Romney. He had a lot of frustration in these e-mails. He says, "I would rather not have to vote for her," meaning Hillary Clinton, "although she is a friend I respect. Everything she touches she kind of screws up with hubris."

I mean, there are many Republicans out there who feel the same way, are on the same boat, right?

MADDEN: Yes, I think anybody who's reading the actual content of the e-mails, I think I'd be surprised that anybody would be surprised. The national security and foreign policy community has been very harsh in its descriptions and its assessments of Donald Trump and what he said during this campaign, so I think that is -- I think that it's come to light is actually news, but it doesn't surprise me that Donald -- that Colin Powell would hold an assessment that is held by and large by many inside the national security foreign policy community.

[23:25:05] LEMON: So, Juliette, this is an exchange between Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice. And I want to -- this was about Benghazi. They supported her sort of, all right. So here's what Powell writes, he says, "Benghazi is a stupid witch hunt. Basic faults fall on a courageous ambassador who thought Libyans now love me and I am OK in this very vulnerable place, but blame also rests on its leaders and supports back here, Pat Kennedy, intel community, DS, and yes, HRC," and then Condoleezza Rice writes, replied, "Completely agree." Is this an accurate assessment of Benghazi by the two former

secretaries of state?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I think it is and I think it's an accurate assessment based on some of these independents, not the witch hunts in the House reports which was the ambassador made I think a sincere assessment of his protection and of his safety and security. He was well-known before Benghazi as a sort of your out- there diplomat. He wasn't having fancy teas. He was out there meeting with people and the assessment was unfortunately incorrect.

But as Hillary Clinton has said, as the State Department has said, the standards for him making that assessment and the standards for how the information flowed from the ambassador out in the world to the secretary needed to be fixed and tightened. So there's -- once again there's nothing that as surprising in this except where he calls it -- he calls the -- all these, you know, hearings and stuff exactly what they were, witch hunts.

I want to say something just quickly, though. Kevin is exactly right. There is something new here going on, but there's not an equivalency. The RNC, despite what we've just heard a couple of hours ago, was not hacked. The RCCC was not hacked. It's the DNC, it's the DCCC, it's Colin Powell who supported President Obama. This is a target attack against a party and its leaders and so let's not -- there's no equivalency here and so we just have to remind people this is an outside, likely Russian, attack on one party.

LEMON: OK, Kevin, do you want to comment or can we move on?

MADDEN: No, I think that's right. I think -- and I think many people will look at that assessment through a partisan lens. Republicans will say that it's not untoward and they'll say that -- you know, that the reason that these folks are being hacked is because they're not being secure with their information. Democrats will say that the reason that Democrats are being hacked is because it's -- there are outside forces trying to help Donald Trump.

And I think many of the people who actually have yet to make up their mind, those persuadable swing voters, are looking at all this and scratching their heads. So --

LEMON: All right. OK, Kevin, I think it's pretty safe to say that Colin Powell does not support Donald Trump very much because here's what --

MADDEN: Right.

LEMON: The e-mail -- the e-mail said about Trump. He's a national disgrace and an international pariah. He called Trump's senior military adviser, retired General Michael Flynn a right-wing nutty and writes that General Flynn is a jerk. Got canned out of DIA. And he refers to Trump's racism in another e-mail writing, "Yes, the whole birther movement was racist."

He is greatly respected by many on -- in both parties. Will these opinions sway any voters, Kevin?

MADDEN: I -- I don't think so. And here's why. I think if a -- if someone like Colin Powell who in the last two campaigns made a very public endorsement and campaigned on behalf of and made public statements in support of candidates, that I think has a very big impact because of his profile as a national security leader. I think because these are filtered through e-mails that he thought were in confidence and have now been -- have been released because they've been hacked I don't think it will have the same impact.

I think a lot of those opinions that Donald -- I'm sorry, that Colin Powell, that General Powell held in those e-mails, I think those are shared by many more public figures who are absolutely, totally willing to make that case, and in that sense, that public debate where you have other generals, other national security leaders that are identified with those sentiments, I think that will have an effect on some -- on swing voters.

LEMON: OK. So, Juliette, here's what Colin Powell e-mailed about Hillary Clinton, about being drawn into Clinton's e-mail issues, OK. He said, "HRC could have killed this two years ago by merely telling everyone honestly what she had done and not tie me into it. I told her staff three times not to try that gambit. I had to throw a mini tantrum at a Hampton's party to get their attention."

Again, he is saying that she is not honest and a lot of people believe that certainly about the e-mails.

KAYYEM: Well, I'm going to go with the FBI director at this. I'm so -- this is so irrelevant, and even Colin Powell's assessment, look, there's debate, of which there's evidence cutting in favor of Hillary Clinton about what Colin Powell told her because other e-mails were leaked that suggested he did tell her. It doesn't -- I mean, in other words it doesn't matter at this stage, there's no case and we -- I have confidence in the FBI director.

[23:30:06] So it's like -- I mean, like we can go back to this but, you know, in other words in terms of the safety and security of the -- of America, Colin Powell, one of the most decorated military men in our history, and an African-American that is relevant considering the overtures that Trump is trying to make to the African-American community and what he did to Barack Obama in terms of questioning the president's citizenship, that is relevant I think.

Not to the swing voters, Kevin was saying, but to voters who -- who will look at this including minority voters and say, actually Colin Powell is someone I do respect not for his military history, but because he's a leader in the African-American community.

LEMON: All right, thank you both. I appreciate it.

When we come right -- when we come right back, Colin Powell does not hold back in his assessment of Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, but is he just saying what the rest of America is thinking?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: A scathing assessment of Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton in Colin Powell's leaked e-mails.

[23:35:01] Here to discuss, CNN political commentator Andy Dean, a Trump supporter, Democratic strategist Maria Cardona, a Clinton supporter, John Philips, talk radio host with KABC and a Trump supporter, and CNN political commentator, Bakari Sellers, a Clinton supporter.

So, Mr. Dean, in e-mails Colin Powell calls Trump a racist and essentially says Hillary Clinton's -- Hillary's hubris causes her to screw things up. This is pretty much what a lot of Americans think about these two candidates. Maybe Colin Powell has, you know, them both pegged, do you think?

ANDY DEAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I don't think so. I mean, Colin Powell did of course serve with great honor but in the past decade, we know that he's endorsed Barack Obama twice, so his -- he's been leaning left.

What I found most revealing, Don, in these e-mails and it hasn't been brought up yet, but I think it's important to discuss, is that he talked about an incident with Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, who's a Democratic senator from Rhode Island, and remember this was all Democrats talking over e-mail, and they mentioned a situation where Hillary Clinton could barely walk up a podium of steps, so Colin Powell did have serious concerns over Hillary Clinton's health. I think that --

LEMON: He said she --

DEAN: I just think that that should be out there.

LEMON: He said she was working herself to death. He didn't say that she was sick. That's --

DEAN: No -- no, he -- that's correct. No, no, no. That's correct.

LEMON: Yes.

DEAN: He didn't say that. I apologize if I -- but Sheldon Whitehouse said, quote, "She could barely climb steps."

LEMON: So -- but wouldn't that -- I mean, Andy Dean, you know, if you're a political surrogate, you're going to spin it, and you could say, you know, she has an incredible work ethic.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Exactly.

LEMON: So it's all how you read it, buddy.

DEAN: I don't know. I don't know.

LEMON: OK. So -- but he didn't say I think she's sick, he said she looks horrible in HD, I've read the entire thing, and that she could barely walk up the steps, according to him, and that, you know, she was working herself to death.

DEAN: Well, we do all -- we all look bad in HD. Yes.

LEMON: Speak for yourself.

CARDONA: Yes. I was just going to say.

LEMON: So a new "Washington Post"-ABC poll released last weekend found that 60 percent of Americans believe that Trump is biased against women and minorities, that's for you, Andy.

DEAN: Well, he's not. I mean, I worked for him for seven years and he has people of all faiths, you know, of all religions, of all backgrounds, national ethnicity, whatever, women, so he's just not a racist guy.

I mean, I can see, Don, where some people, through the lens of a third party, when it keeps getting hammered in, that Trump is this or Trump is that, and of course Hillary Clinton saying that we're all -- and I guess she's including me into a basket of deplorables --

LEMON: Well, that's what -- I'm just -- that's just me pushing back on you about Colin Powell because he said the exact same thing when I said, you know, does he have them figured out like the American people do, you know, feel about him and you said --

DEAN: Yes, but look, and I -- look, Powell says that and Hillary Clinton says that, you know --

LEMON: But 60 percent of Americans say the same thing.

DEAN: That Trump supporters are deplorable racist.

CARDONA: You know what, Don?

DEAN: I don't know. I don't know like that poll. I don't like that poll.

CARDONA: I actually -- I actually would say that Colin Powell probably does have them pegged with how a lot of people see these candidates, and so what I would say to that is, if you're going to compare the description of somebody having hubris and being ambitious, and by the way, with all respect to Colin Powell, I wonder if he would have said that if Hillary Clinton was a man, versus calling somebody an international pariah, a national disgrace, and somebody who would put our national security at risk, which is what he was getting to.

I think I would prefer a thousand times every single day what he said about Hillary Clinton, and so while Republicans want to dismiss these comments and the way that he feels about these candidates by saying, well, you know, he endorsed Barack Obama in the last two elections, well, so did the majority of the American people. So if he is -- if he has been right in the last two elections, then hopefully he will be right again, which means that the majority of the American people will also then endorse and vote for Hillary Clinton. LEMON: And by the way, some of the same people who have criticized

Hillary Clinton and have come up with some of the conspiracy theories about her death -- excuse me, about her health will come up -- we have one step to get up to the set and they have trouble getting up that step themselves. We have to have people, so there you go.

(LAUGHTER)

CARDONA: Right.

LEMON: Bakari, Powell endorsed Barack Obama, but he did not join a number of Republican national officials who are rejecting Donald Trump and endorsing Clinton. That seems to be because he was a problem. He has a problem with her whole MO, right?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I mean, today when we're reading his e-mails, first I felt bad for Colin Powell because what you're starting to see is that there's some outside influence and meddling in American elections. You see the DNC, the DCCC, and now you see Colin Powell who we all know supported Barack Obama not once but twice, and has this complete disdain for Donald Trump. So I felt bad that his private thoughts were aired out that way. But, man, he threw some in indiscriminate shade at absolutely everyone.

CARDONA: Yes.

SELLERS: I mean, I was -- I was reading these e-mails and I said in order, in my opinion, it goes 2Pac's "Hit 'Em Up," and Nas' "Ether," and then Colin Powell's e-mails in the order of the best diss record that have been put out recently. This was some quality material from Colin Powell.

LEMON: Let's move on and talk about medical records, shall we? Donald Trump's medical. Here's a clip now from his appearance on Dr. Oz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[23:40:06] DR. MEHMET OZ, HOST, "THE DR. OZ SHOW": Why not share your medical records? Why not --

TRUMP: Well, I have really no problem in doing it. I have it right here. I mean, should I do it? I don't care. Should I do it?

(APPLAUSE)'

TRUMP: It's two letters, one is the report and the other is from Lennox Hill Hospital.

OZ: Yes. May I see them?

TRUMP: Saying -- yes, sure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Is this the right answer for transparency on his health records to appear on a daytime talk show?

JOHN PHILIPS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think the only video that's relevant in terms of health in this campaign is the video of Hillary Clinton collapsing, trying to get into that van.

LEMON: OK, but that wasn't the -- that wasn't the question.

CARDONA: Yes.

LEMON: Do you think that's the appropriate venue?

PHILIPS: Well -- there's no question about his health. He's not the one collapsing. The question right now is about Hillary Clinton.

CARDONA: There is a question, John.

PHILIPS: Is she up to the job? No, there's not.

CARDONA: There is.

PHILIPS: He doesn't -- there's no former chairman of the RNC saying that we need to have this plan B ready to go.

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: He's 70 years old. He will be the oldest person as president if he gets elected.

LEMON: One at a time.

PHILIPS: If they can't fulfill his duties. Donnie Fowler, the former chair of the DNC said the DNC needs to have plan B ready to go yesterday if Hillary Clinton cannot fulfill her duties as the nominee. And you had Cokie Roberts saying that there is a whispering campaign right now going on among Democrats. David Shuster, a journalist, saying the exact same thing.

CARDONA: None of that is true. That is completely untrue, John. So, you know, again --

PHILIPS: Well, take it up with Cokie Roberts and Don Fowler.

CARDONA: And I absolutely will because I actually know what the DNC is doing and that none of that is happening. So I know you like to traffic in conspiracy theories but I think voters -want actual facts and truths.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILIPS: No. That's Don Fowler, the former chairman of the party. This is not some guy wearing tin foil on his head.

CARDONA: So I think there's something bigger going on here -- I think there's something bigger on here, Don. The health records and the whole circus surrounding what he did today -- and I guess what we'll see tomorrow with Dr. Oz, I think goes to this whole issue of a false equivalency because this is a man who has been the least transparent of any presidential candidate in modern history. Not only on health records. And we know a lot more about Hillary Clinton's health records.

Taxes, we talked about, you know, having Hillary Clinton 40 years of taxes, when you can claim the dubious honor of being less transparent than Richard Nixon, then, amigo, you have a problem. And you know, Melania Trump's immigration records, there's huge questions there. Donald Trump's charitable givings.

DEAN: There are no questions there.

CARDONA: He has built -- there are lots of questions there.

DEAN: Actually not. I can walk you through her immigration history.

CARDONA: He has built a huge wall around these issues of disclosure. So Republicans love -- Trump supporters love to compare him to Ronald Reagan, so let's Ronald Reagan him and ask Mr. Trump, tear down this stonewall.

DEAN: Don, if I could --

LEMON: Yes.

DEAN: And Don -- I want to answer your Dr. Oz question but I just want to fix this Melania issue because she's been so wonderful to me and she's an extremely bright, caring, compassionate person. Her immigration status is very clear. She got a b1b2 visa, and then she got five h1b visas.

CARDONA: It's not, Andy.

DEAN: Wait, hold on.

CARDONA: It's not, Andy.

DEAN: She became a permanent resident and then got a green card because of her extraordinary talent as a model and a businesswoman. And that is the flat-out truth.

CARDONA: You see, Andy, that doesn't --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Isn't that coming someone other than a Trump attorney?

DEAN: That's her immigration history.

CARDONA: Andy, that doesn't hold up. I worked at the INS. And what she has said and those pieces of disclosure do not add up. I'm sorry. She was not an internationally renowned model. The visa category of extraordinary talent does not apply to her.

DEAN: That's not true.

CARDONA: This was a category that is even called --

DEAN: That's not true.

CARDONA: -- the Einstein category, and you know, as wonderful as she might be, she does not fit into that category. There are huge questions even from what she said, having to go back to Slovenia to renew her visa, you don't do that if you have an h1b.

LEMON: Yes.

CARDONA: In any of those categories. So there are huge questions revolving here and people need to understand the truth.

DEAN: You're just -- this is --

CARDONA: Especially coming from Donald Trump --

DEAN: Talking about trafficking conspiracy theories.

CARDONA: Especially somebody coming from -- coming from Donald Trump who has made immigration and enforcing the immigration law a huge pillar of his campaign.

LEMON: OK. I want to --

DEAN: She followed all the rules and she's a great citizen.

CARDONA: We don't know that.

LEMON: Bakari, why are you smiling?

DEAN: You're attacking a future president's wife, outrageous.

CARDONA: We don't know that.

DEAN: Outrageous.

SELLERS: I'm just smiling at this back and forth because what we're starting to see is that Andy and many other Trump supporters are kind of -- are shaking and not having too many answers when they're starting to fend off the many, many, many layers of Donald Trump's shields that are going up.

I mean, the simple fact is, you know, we can point -- I like to point to one fact. I like to point to one fact, which is charitable giving, for example. You know, Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton have given through the Bill and Hillary Family Foundation $22.5 million since 2001. Donald Trump is a very wealthy millionaire. We know that he's a millionaire. And the fact that we can't point to a million dollars worth of the charitable giving that he's given is a problem. And the fact that we don't know this --

DEAN: I can point to it.

SELLERS: -- because he won't display his tax returns is a problem. And that these problems -- DEAN: Bakari, if I may --

SELLERS: Many of these problems go on and on and on.

DEAN: In fact I've seen the checks.

CARDONA: Yes.

DEAN: OK. The "Celebrity Apprentice."

SELLERS: You're the only one, Andy.

[23:45:04] DEAN: He's been on NBC -- hold on.

SELLERS: You're the only one.

DEAN: I was the head of Trump Productions. If I might.

SELLERS: You're the only one.

DEAN: I was the head of Trump Productions. The "Celebrity Apprentice" raised -- it raised tens of millions of dollars for charity.

SELLERS: No, Donald Trump. Donald Trump.

DEAN: The idea --

SELLERS: Donald Trump. Donald Trump.

DEAN: He was the executive producer and co-owner of the show.

SELLERS: Not the "Apprentice."

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: No, no.

LEMON: Andy, from his personal --

SELLERS: Donald Trump.

LEMON: From his personal --

SELLERS: Donald Trump. His personal

LEMON: -- account. Not --

SELLERS: Because what Mike Pence says --

(CROSSTALK)

DEAN: Well, he's also given from his personal account.

SELLERS: Where? How much? Where?

DEAN: But he's also given through -- he's given -- OK, Bakari --

LEMON: Can you bring us the receipt, Andy? Because I think that would -- you would solve this investigation that every news network has been doing.

CARDONA: Right.

LEMON: If can come in and show us the receipts, we'd love to see them.

SELLERS: Yes. Yes.

CARDONA: Show us the tax --

SELLERS: Show the receipts.

LEMON: Yes.

DEAN: I know who does his tax returns. I can tell you very quickly.

LEMON: Well, tell us what's in there.

CARDONA: Disclose the tax, Andy.

DEAN: He's a -- I will tell you, hold on, he's a multibillionaire, that's according to Forbes, OK. And they do checking on this. He's a multibillionaire. He gives away -- in his lifetime he's given away over hundred million dollars with the "Celebrity Apprentice," tens of millions, and then the Trump Foundation has given away millions of dollars. And there's clear record about all of this.

CARDONA: There's no record of that.

LEMON: OK, Andy --

DEAN: And remember --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I've got to go to a break, but it would be great --

PHILIPS: Melania is the one person I think the Democrats want to deport.

LEMON: It would be -- it would be great, though, Andy, if you could show us the receipts. I'm serious. You know, you would solve a lot of people --

CARDONA: Tear down this stonewall.

DEAN: I've got his tax --

LEMON: We'll be right back.

DEAN: I've got his tax return in my car, Don. I'll go get it.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[23:50:11] LEMON: Back now Andy Dean, Maria Cardona, John Philips, and Bakari Sellers.

So let's talk about the debates. In the primary we saw a barrage of insults from Donald Trump, watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I mean, first of all this guy is a choke artist and this guy is a liar. You're a tough guy, Jeb.

JEB BUSH (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And we need to have a leader --

TRUMP: Real tough.

BUSH: You're never going to be president of the United States by insulting your way to the presidency.

TRUMP: You're real tough. Well, let's see, I'm at 42 and you're at 3 so, so far I'm doing better.

BUSH: Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.

TRUMP: So far I'm doing better. I never attacked him on his look and believe me, there's plenty of subject matter right there. That I can tell you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Sorry. So -- he beat out 16 other candidates using this tactic. I mean, do you think it's a winning formula? Should he do this again, Andy?

DEAN: I think that Trump is one of the best counterpunchers I've ever seen. And look, he is not the first to go on the attack but if attacked he will destroy his opponent. And I look forward to these debates because if Hillary goes after him, I wish her luck.

LEMON: How does she fight back, Bakari?

SELLERS: Well, it's going to be substance and policy. Look, everybody wants to talk about the showman that Donald Trump is and how he does with a great audience on reality shows in NBC and everywhere else. The fact is, Donald Trump has never done this a day before in his life. He's going to be on stage one-on-one having a debate about policy and substance with professional moderators there and the entire world is going to be watching. He's never done this before. Hillary Clinton has.

And what people also don't know the added advantage that Hillary Clinton has is that she's a woman. Donald Trump has never been on stage with a woman that's going to stand toe-to-toe and tell him that he's wrong and have more depth on domestic and foreign policy than he does. He's going to be so far out of water that it's going to be uncomfortable. I don't think he'll do well the first one. The second and third, maybe he'll be more comfortable.

LEMON: Except for that lady today in the church in Flint who moves pretty close. But listen --

CARDONA: That was telling.

LEMON: John, there's a new CNN-ORC poll that shows Trump five points ahead of Hillary Clinton in the key state of Ohio. And then three points ahead in Florida. How did Trump turn this around?

PHILIPS: He stayed on message and the theme to this segment was the insult comment routine. Well, of late Donald Trump has been on message, he's sticking to the script, he's talking about policy, and what has Hillary Clinton been doing? She's been triumphed the insult comic, talking about the basket of deplorables, and going off script and her numbers have suffered because of it.

I think Donald Trump should just continue what he's doing. Nate Silver just flipped, North Carolina and Ohio, the electoral college, not just the national numbers, is getting better for Trump by the day. So I'd say just keep doing what you're doing.

LEMON: So, Maria, there's a new Monmouth poll that shows Trump two points ahead of Hillary Clinton in Nevada. She was ahead by four points in July. I mean, she was way up there. You were worried that people wouldn't realize how close this race could get. Are you worried now for totally different reasons?

CARDONA: No. I continue to be worried and I hope that the Hillary Clinton campaign -- I know the Hillary Clinton campaign is worried. They need to wake up every day worried and run as if she's 10 points behind. I've said this repeatedly on your show, Don.

It's the only way that they get to the point of not just making sure that Hillary Clinton is out there the way that she's been doing, underscoring her message that she is the one with the substance, she is the one with the knowledge, the experience, the steely steadiness, and the temperament to be commander-in-chief, versus the joke that has become Donald Trump. And -- but more importantly to make sure that Democrats, independents and same-minded Republicans who understand what a danger this man would be anywhere close to the Oval Office with his hands on the nuclear codes do everything that they can to make sure that they get out there and vote, that their families get out there and vote, that their friends get out there and vote.

For the Obama coalition, I think this is good because it will mobilize them. And I actually think that the last couple of days have hurt her because she's been off of the trail. You know, in terms of actual worry, these polls, I don't buy the Florida poll, I don't buy the Nevada poll unless you're polling with bilingual pollsters, your support among Latino voters is not showing up and I think that is the case with other minority population as well but, again, yes, I'm glad that this race is getting closer because it will mobilize Democrats.

LEMON: Bakari, you have a similar theory about some of the polls, don't you?

SELLERS: Well, yes, and I think some of the things that you've been saying, especially in the CNN polls is that I think that pollsters are projecting the electorate to be a whiter electorate. That's something that really hasn't happened in decades. And I think that if you look at the model from -- even the model in 2008 where you had extremely high African-American turnout and Hispanic turnout, in 2012 it was even higher.

And what we started to see is African-Americans and Hispanic Americans, they begin to participate at even higher rates.

CARDONA: Right.

SELLERS: I expect to see the same thing. And so the numbers --

DEAN: Don --

[23:55:04] SELLERS: You shouldn't see in polls the numbers actually retrogress, I think you should actually see those numbers increase and as we know Hillary Clinton does better with nonwhite populations.

LEMON: Go ahead, Andy.

DEAN: Don, I was just going to say, that now that Trump is leading or winning in most of the swing states and nationally, of course the pundits now have a problem with the methodology of the polls.

SELLERS: That's not true either.

DEAN: So we knew that this was coming.

CARDONA: I've always had that issue.

DEAN: Talk about --

SELLERS: First of all, he's not winning -- he's not winning nationally. The CNN poll was an outlier.

CARDONA: That's right.

SELLERS: And if you look at RealClearPolitics, she's up nationally. And if you want to look at the electoral college, even if you give him Ohio --

DEAN: Five polls were --

(CROSSTALK)

SELLERS: If you give him Ohio and North Carolina, you know what happens on November 8th? You're still saying Madame President.

CARDONA: She becomes president. Yes. SELLERS: So I mean, I think that there -- yes.

DEAN: That's right. But he's also winning in Florida. And remember, Trump did very well with Latinos in the Republican primary, beating Marco Rubio, the home state senator who is --

CARDONA: That's not saying a whole lot. Sorry.

PHILIPS: And you know, on the issue of turnout --

DEAN: Well, he won by 18 points.

PHILIPS: There's no evidence --

CARDONA: that's not saying a whole lot.

LEMON: All right. I've got 10 seconds.

PHILIPS: There's no evidence -- there's no evidence that says that the Obama coalition is going to turn out in the same numbers or even similar numbers for Hillary Clinton that they did for Barack Obama.

DEAN: Right.

LEMON: There is an enthusiasm problem. That's right.

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: Fundamentally, though --

DEAN: The enthusiasm --

LEMON: That's why the president is out there stumping in Pennsylvania.

CARDONA: Fundamentally and --

LEMON: Thank you, guys.

CARDONA: Hillary Clinton still has the advantage.

DEAN: OK.

LEMON: That's it for us tonight. Thanks for watching. I'll see you right back here tomorrow. Good night.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)