Return to Transcripts main page

ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Suspect In NY, NJ Bombings Captured After Shootout; Bombing Suspect Charged With Attempted Murder; Sources: Suspect Married Pakistan Woman In 2011; Source: Note Found With NY Bomb Mentions Boston Bombers; New Victim In Mall Stabbing Rampage; Witnesses To Shootout, Suspect's Capture Speak; The Politics Of Terror. Aired 9-10p ET

Aired September 19, 2016 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:00:36] ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. We begin tonight with late developments. After three days of violence that leaves New York, New Jersey and the country on edge, and certainly the city breathing a sigh of relief.

A pipe bomb goes off Saturday morning in a Marine Corps charity race on the Jersey Shore. That evening, a pressure cooker bomb explodes in the Chelsea neighborhood of Manhattan sending 29 to the hospital. Then police find another unexploded bomb not far from there packed with ball bearings designed to maim and kill.

Sunday night, five more bombs found in Elizabeth, New Jersey near the suspect's home, one goes off as a police robot examines it. Then this morning, a neighboring Linden, New Jersey, the suspect is cornered, confronted and captured after a changing fire and wounding two police officers.

Today, Ahmad khan Rahami, a naturalized American, born in Afghanistan is in the hospital under arrest and short time ago facing a string of very serious charges.

In just a few minutes, an exclusive interview that you won't want to miss with the man who many would call a hero. I certainly would. He saw the alleged bomber, made the call that led to his capture.

First, our CNN's Pamela Brown and Evan Perez are working their sources and all the angles, including a handwritten note, found with the unexploded pressure cooker bomb here in New York. Let's start with Pamela Brown.

So, the suspect traveled to both Afghanistan and Pakistan in recent years. How much do we know about those trips?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So right now, Anderson, investigators are scrutinizing his travels overseas to see if he may have been radicalized while there. We have learned that in the last few years, he went to Afghanistan, the country where he was born, and the Taliban stronghold of Pakistan.

A law enforcement official tells me that he married his wife in 2011 while in Pakistan and then returned to Pakistan for an entire year from 2013 to 2014. The official says after that he -- or during that time, he filled out paperwork for his wife to come here to the U.S., it was approved. He later contacted a New Jersey congressman in 2014, saying he was having issues getting his wife to the U.S. She apparently had become pregnant and couldn't get her immigration visa until after she had the baby. We don't know, Anderson, if she ever came to the U.S., but she's certainly someone officials want to speak with.

COOPER: Was he on law enforcement's radar?

BROWN: So we're told at this point that he wasn't on law enforcement's radar as a suspected terrorist. In fact, both times, when he returned from Pakistan and Afghanistan in 2011 and 2014, he underwent secondary screening because of where he had traveled to, and both times, he told immigration officials that he was just visiting family. And apparently gave satisfactory answers that didn't raise any red flags, so he wasn't placed on any terror watch list. Of course, that is something officials are going back and reviewing. Anderson?

COOPER: All right. Pamela Brown, thank you.

Joining us now is Evan Perez, who's learning more about how the bombs were made and the notes found with them. What about this handwritten note?

EVEN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this handwritten note, Anderson, was found with the unexploded pressure cooker bomb on 27th Street. It appears to have contained some ramblings that make reference to previous terrorists, and that includes the Boston bombers. So right now, investigators are analyzing this note. It may indicate some kind of motive, motivation for why he did these things.

The other thing, obviously, is the fact that these were pressure cooker bombs, which were similar to the bombs that were used in Boston.

COOPER: And yet, based on your reporting, you've learned some of the ingredients of these bombs, actually more powerful than potentially those in Boston.

PEREZ: Yeah, potentially more powerful. It was inside a pressure cooker. It included ball bearings and BBs. It was definitely intended to maim and kill. It included aluminum powder, ammonium nitrate and HT -- HMTD which is one -- an explosive that we don't normally encounter in these types of cases. We've seen TATP, which is a close relative in the Paris attacks and in other attacks. HMTD was used in the 2005 London bombings, and that raises some concerns among authorities.

The investigators believe that there's perhaps some know-how that he obtained somehow and training perhaps into how to make this explosive. Well, there are some recipes on the internet that you can use to make this. They're really looking at it at the bigger picture, including his travel to Afghanistan, as Pamela was just mentioning, and Pakistan. It really raises the concern that perhaps he may have gotten some kind of bomb training. Especially because you look at the fact that there were at least two different types devices that he made here.

COOPER: And of course, did he actually practice? Did he do dry runs? Would anybody have been involved in that? Do authorities at this point know of any other connections to other people or groups?

[21:05:00] PEREZ: Well, they don't. But, you know, the back of the minds is still the possibility that someone might have helped him, someone might have helped him either pay for some of these explosives, helped them in conducting some of the dry runs, perhaps. They do believe that he was the only bomber, the only bomb maker in this case, but there's still a great deal of investigative work to be done.

COOPER: All right, Evan Perez, the one -- there were two people seen on surveillance camera, right? Who were those two people and are they connected?

PEREZ: This is the bomb, the unexploded bomb on 27th Street, right? They do see him wielding a duffel bag and he leaves it behind. These two people come, not clear who they are, and they pick up the bag, they open it and they take out what becomes what is the bomb, and they leave it on the sidewalk. They take the bag. Authorities have not found those people. They haven't been able to find them. They would love to interview them, they, at this point, do not believe that they had anything to do this -- do with this. Perhaps they were thieves. They were homeless people who picked up the bag.

COOPER: Right. I mean there are plenty of people, sadly, who, you know, go through garbage and take things from garbage because they need stuff or they're just looking for stuff to ...

PEREZ: Right. They would definitely like to talk to these folks because they want to know whether or not there's any association. And that was one of the reasons why they initially had this view of perhaps a larger cell at work here. At this point, they don't believe that, but they certainly would love to talk to those folks.

COOPER: Amazing, though, I mean, they could have blown themselves up, I mean, taking out a pressure cooker.

PEREZ: Clearly. And they do -- investigators believe that perhaps just by picking up the bomb and, you know, throwing it on the sidewalk, they may have disturbed the bomb and prevented it from functioning.

COOPER: Wow. That was incredible. Evan thanks very much for the reporting.

I want to bring in the panel, CNN national security analyst and former assistant Homeland Security Secretary Julia Kayyem, CNN intelligence and security analyst, Robert Baer, he's a former CIA officer, and with me here, CNN terrorism analyst, Paul Cruickshank, co-author of "Agent Storm, My Life Inside al-Qaeda and the CIA".

Bob, you say even though the suspect was not successful in detonating all the devices, just the way they were constructed, you believe, puts them in a different category. How so?

ROBERT BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Well, exactly. HMTD is not easy to make. Yes, the formula is on the internet. I've been in a London safe house for the 2005 bombings there and a chemist walked me through this. Very difficult, very unsafe. Your hair gets bleached if you don't know how to vent the chemical. It is just not something you pick up off the internet.

You know, and the fact that he used this as an initiator tells me that he either got training or got help. There's really nothing in between. Same goes for the pipe bombs. You simply cannot put gun powder in a pipe bomb and screw the top on and expect this thing to go off, especially with a cell phone timer.

So we're seeing a bit of sophistication and don't be fooled by t fact that he executed this attack in a very clumsy way and got caught so quick. That's something else I can't explain, but the explosives, you look in totally, and we've got a problem there. He had some assistance somewhere along the line, if just training.

COOPER: You do acknowledge, Bob, I mean, someone who's worked with the CIA, his tradecraft, if you will, was pretty weak. I mean, he's on surveillance video going from one location to the other. He's caught, you know, sleeping in -- outside a doorway of a bar, and we're going to hear from the bar owner in just a moment who, you know, made the call to the police.

BAER: Oh, absolutely. I mean, the fact that just one person put the bomb down in three locations in Elizabeth as well, it tells me he was acting on his own. At least he didn't have assistance, somebody driving there. We just don't have evidence to that. But nonetheless, there are parts of this operation that are fairly sophisticated, which someone who, you know, gets up one day just can't effect this bomb making. And there was a lot of it. And most of these people, frankly, get their hands blown off if they're amateurs and he didn't, obviously, made a lot of bombs and two of them, three of them went off.

COOPER: Paul, for you, the ingredients of this bomb are very important, just as they are for Bob and for Evan?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Yeah, I mean, the fact that there's aluminum powder, ammonium nitrate, HMTD, it's the primary detonator which would detonate that main charge. I've been speaking to explosive experts today. They say that you're talking about an explosive device significantly potentially more powerful than the Boston devices. This could have caused real carnage, especially if it fully detonated in two possible locations on the streets of Manhattan.

And HMTD, as Bob was saying, that's tricky to make. It requires experimentation, often. I can only think of one or two cases in the last decade or so where an Islamist terrorist in the West has managed to do this without getting the training overseas. There was a case in 2008 in the U.K., somebody who had managed to build a suicide device off the internet, but those are very, very rare cases.

[21:09:58] And given that international travel we're now finding about to places like Qatar and Pakistan, a Taliban stronghold. One of the primary focuses of the investigation right now is did he link up with an overseas terrorist group, could it have been al-Qaeda or the Pakistani Taliban? The Pakistani Taliban being the group that directed the Times Square bomber to launch a car bomb attack here in New York City in 2010.

COOPER: You know, Juliette, I keep thinking about, you know, when you and I were covering the bombings in Boston, the marathon, there was so much discussion of did those brothers or did one of the brothers, you know, have connections overseas? He had spent time overseas, I think it was in the caucus regions, and as far as I remember, if memory serves me correct, it was never proven that he had any formal training in bomb-making, in pressure -- in building a pressure cooker bomb.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, FORMER U.S. ASST. SECY. FOR HOMELAND SECURITY: That's exactly right. And I think -- I think we just don't know yet. It seems to me, at least in terms of biography, that the radicalization process was relatively recent. People had noticed a change in his physique and a growing anger. We don't know exactly what that was related to. But other similarities with what we saw in Boston. One is, as Bob was alluding to, sophisticated planning, no exit strategy. I mean, he didn't want to get killed. That seems clear to us, because he left things behind. But these guys seem to think that people are just sitting around not caring when this happens. I mean, it was 48 hours -- there was a bad news story that you barely blinked and the guy is now under custody. Part of that is the use of technology by law enforcement to essentially crowd source investigations now. We cannot underestimate how unique that is for the FBI and the New York Police Department, which used to keep things very close hold. So I think that is a good use of technology to try to thwart a much more nimble threat these days.

COOPER: When you talk about kind of the use of technology to crowd source, what do you mean, specifically?

KAYYEM: Well, so, basically, once they have the identification, they knew who he was, they didn't know where he was. But they probably knew that he also wasn't going to go down peacefully. By sending the text alert out to the New York area, they engage the public in the search, and basically giving CNN and other networks the picture, that is ultimately how he was found. So this wasn't your sort of quiet manhunt where they were looking for him. They essentially said, help us look for him, and that's exactly what happened.

The challenge is, as New York -- the police department found and part of this is our antiquated communications system, they weren't able to attach a picture. That's something that needs to be fixed in this day and age.

COOPER: Juliette Kayyem, Bob Baer, thanks. Paul's going to stick around. Just ahead, we're going to talk to witnesses to the shootout, including the one who took this video. We'll also hear from the man who spotted the fugitive and made the call that brought his alleged to say reign of terror to an end. Just as to Julia's point, he saw the guy's image on CNN online and realized the guy he had just had an interaction with in the alcove of his bar was this suspected terrorist and he called police.

Also tonight, breaking news on the attacks in a mall in Minnesota. Late word on survivors and what to make of ISIS' claim of responsibility.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:16:56] COOPER: More now on the capture of the suspect in the New York and New Jersey bombings. He was arrested after a shootout with police in Linden, New Jersey. There are several small businesses as well as apartments and houses in the area where the shootout and capture happened. Here's what it sounded like.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(Gunfire)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: That video was shot by David Ayres. He and Derek Pelligra witnessed the takedown. They both join me now.

David, I understand you were working in your auto shop when this all started. What did you see? What did you hear?

DAVID AYRES, WITNESSED SUSPECT'S CAPTURE: Well, we were basically standing on the corner, which is like kind of behind me, you know, just hanging out talking to the local business guys like we do all the time. We're real close around this area.

One of my employees saw something running up the street. He noticed him. He immediately, you know, said he had a gun. You know, we've looked around thinking, you know, that's just crazy or whatever. Next thing you know, he dips behind one of the Volkswagens over by Pegasus, which is over here, and there shot, they're exchanging shots, you know, we're running, we're looking for some cover. We're sticking the video camera out, because nobody wants to stand in the line of fire or anything. It was pretty surreal, to be honest with you.

COOPER: Yeah, it's got to be. I mean, Derek, I understand you were across the street in another auto shop working when you heard the shots. Can you walk me through what you saw? Did you actually see the suspect running?

DEREK PELLIGRA, WITNESSED SUSPECT'S CAPTURE: Yeah, I had heard the first two gunshots go off, which I now hear were the shots made at the police officers here in Linden, and I left my office coming down the street, and I'd seen the cops going after him, and him running down the street towards Dave's shop, Hometown Tire and Auto. And a lot of shots were exchanged and eventually they obviously took him down.

COOPER: And I -- looks like we just lost the feed as happens in live television. We'll try to get that back as quickly as we can. And I'm told they are back.

Derek and Dave -- no, we're back guys, you're back on the air. I think we were able to restore it.

AYRES: Listen, I'd like to just take a second ...

COOPER: Yeah, go ahead.

AYRES: ... to tell you guys how great the Linden Police Department is. These -- all of these businesses behind me have huge doors. Anybody could have ran into any of these businesses and this could have been a hostage situation like that. Linden P.D. had this man under control and down and the threat gone before it was even a threat, before you really even knew what was happening. So I'd like to take a second and thank the Linden P.D. for helping everybody around here, you know, to feel safe. And we felt really safe when they come around here.

COOPER: Yeah. I'm glad you did that. Because I mean, I think, first of all, there's a lot of New Yorkers, too, not only about the Linden police officers, but the response by law enforcement ...

AYRES: Police officers ...

COOPER: ... in this entire tristate areas have been incredible.

AYRES: Police officers in general, they are heroes and let's not forget that.

[21:20:00] COOPER: Yeah. What did you think when you heard the shots being fired, David, I mean, did you think it was connected to the bombings over the weekend or did you think it was something else?

AYRES: You know, the craziest thing, Anderson, is -- the first thing you think nowadays is, is that terrorism? You know, it's sad to even say that, but, yeah, of course, I thought that. Because, you know, it's in the news, it's on your Facebook feeds. It's everywhere you're looking. But now it's right in my backyard and it became really real for us today.

COOPER: And I understand you actually know one of the police officers who were shot, Angel Padilla.

AYRES: Yes, Angel. Angel, yes. He's a very good friend of ours. Good customer, quality person. Never does not wear his vest, thank God he was wearing his vest. Thank God.

COOPER: Yeah.

AYRES: My heart goes out to him. And he's a true hero.

COOPER: Yeah, because from what I understand, I mean, he was, you know, a couple of feet away, six feet or so away, according to one eyewitness I talked to earlier ...

AYRES: Yeah, he was ...

COOPER: ... it could have been much worse.

AYRES: Yeah, he was point-blank pretty much.

COOPER: Yeah.

AYRES: It could have totally been much worse. But he acted just like any of these policemen in our great country would act, selfless.

COOPER: Yeah, I mean, every day, this is what they do. Derek, I mean, it could -- as we said, you know, it could have been a lot worse, what goes through your mind when you think back? I mean, it all happened so fast. As you think about it now, what goes through your mind?

PELLIGRA: I mean like kind of like Dave said, it comes to a shock to us something happened and so close to home. I mean, we're a close- knit community. Hearing what happened in Seaside and Elizabeth and New York, to actually see it, it really comes to a shock. The bravery of the Linden Police Department and all of the police across the country that put themselves before us to keep us safe, it's absolutely incredible.

Really, I'm just shocked we got to see it firsthand. I'm glad nobody was killed today.

AYRES: Thank God. Thank God.

PELLIGRA: And my heart goes out to the police officers that were there at the scene when it happened. Two of them that were hit. I understand Angel is now leaving the hospital ...

AYRES: Yeah. We just heard he's leaving the hospital.

COOPER: We heard that too.

AYRES: Yeah.

PELLIGRA: It's incredible.

COOPER: Yeah. I think the other officer is going to be held overnight, but thank goodness, they're going to be OK.

AYRES: Yeah.

COOPER: Derek Pelligra, David Ayres, guys, thank you so much for taking the time. It's been a crazy day for you, I know. Appreciate it.

AYRES: Thank you, Anderson.

COOPER: Yeah.

PELIGRA: Thank you, Anderson. We appreciate the time, thank you.

COOPER: Up next, another firsthand account and this is an extraordinary one. An exclusive interview with the man a lot of folks are calling a hero. A citizen who saw the alleged bomber and made the call to police that actually led to that dramatic confrontation to his capture. We'll talk to him when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:26:32] COOPER: Well, Harinder Bains has had quite a day to say the least. He called the police after recognizing the suspect in the doorway of his bar. He'd seen the suspect's picture on CNN. I spoke with Harinder earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Mr. Bains, thank you for being with us and for what you did. Take me through what happened because you saw this guy sleeping in the doorway of your bar this morning. What happened next? Did you instantly recognize him?

HARINDER BAINS, CALLED POLICE WHEN HE SPOTTED SUSPECT: No, around 9:00 in the morning, I went in front of my bar and he was leaning towards the door, and the door was a little cracked, you know, the glass panel. So, I just went there and told him, I said, "Hey, buddy, you're going to get hurt, this door is cracked." So he just looked towards the door crack and then said, "Oh, I'm sorry, I'll move to the other side." So he was on the left side. And he just removed his hoodie and just moved to the right side of the building.

So, and I just left, because it was raining very hard, so, and I just ran back to my store because I have a store just across the street from the bar. And that's the time when I saw his face when he moved his hoodie. It like kind of shocked me, because I was watching CNN on my laptop and you guys have his picture on your site like PIP, you know, on a site.

COOPER: Right.

BAINS: So I said this guy looked similar -- like very familiar to same -- like the same guy, you know? And then I got a little busy in the store and then I was still wondering, like, does he -- is he the same guy? Is he the same guy? I'm just thinking.

And then my friend, he has a trucking repair shop, he came to my store. I said -- his name is Vinnie, I said, "Vinnie, did you saw that guy lounging around in the back?" He said, "Yeah." I said, "Look at this photo." I showed him the photo. I said, "He looks exactly like this guy, but only the mustache, but he looks like him, and I recognize like he's the same guy. He said, "Are you sure?" I said, "Yes." He said, let's -- I said -- then call the cops. So I was about to call 911, then he said, "No, I have the number for the Linden cops, so we should call them." And that's when I called the cops, you know?

COOPER: And how quickly did the police arrive? BAINS: Because I just -- I didn't tell them that he -- this is the guy that you guys are looking for and he verified what I've said that, maybe they would have been there in a minute. But I just told them that the guy looks a little suspicious and you have to look, it doesn't look good to me. And she said, "What do you mean that doesn't look good to you. Is he dead or alive?" I said, "No, no, he's alive, but he doesn't look good. Like -- he's like -- you have to send somebody to check it out, you know?"

So I think the cops came within five minutes. And I was just waiting for the cops, because at that point -- by that point of time, I was like peaking to me again and again, this is the guy, this is guy, you know ...

COOPER: You were more sure than ever at that point?

BAINS: Yeah, yeah, I was like watching across street from the bar, and then the first cop rolls in, he just looks at him, he's still sleeping on his hoodies, pulled over his head, and then when the second cop pulled in and he just pick him up, and right away he went to his left side to pull -- I think I'm sure, the gun. And I couldn't hear the conservation because I was across street in my store, you know. And right away, he pulled a gun and he shot twice and the glass splinters almost hit my store across street, and that's when I also ducked behind a coffee table in my store.

[21:29:59] COOPER: So you saw the suspect pull out a gun?

BAINS: Yes. I did. He moved towards his left, like he was like slouching, you know? So he moved towards his left and like tried to take out something. That's the point when the cop took out the gun and he pointed towards him. And it went so fast, it happened in like 15, 20 seconds ...

COOPER: How close were they to each other?

BAINS: Close, like, maybe six feet, five feet. Not more than six feet. He was right there at the small vestibule. He was standing outside the vestibule, and he was right there, you know?

COOPER: And do you -- do you have any idea how long this guy had been sleeping there? I know you only saw him around 9:00 a.m. Had he been there much of the night?

BAINS: No, no, he was there since 6:45, I opened the store. He was there. He was sitting on the bench outside when it wasn't raining at 6:45, and I looked at him and I thought maybe some drunk guy, his hoodie was pulled over his face. And then when it started raining around 8:00, I think 8:30, he went into that vestibule-covered area, you know? I saw him at 6:45.

COOPER: That was the earliest you saw him. And then when -- so they exchanged shots. How many shots was between the first officer and the suspect?

BAINS: He shot twice like one of the shots hit the cop, and the cop, like, ran back towards the brick wall of the building, and he -- the guy got up and they started running towards the Roselle Street and he started running between the parked cars and the cop came behind the SUV and he started shooting too and I came out of the door and I started yelling at the cop, I said, because I knew the cop too, you know, he came to my store for food, you know. So I told him this is the freaking guy you guys are looking for. I started yelling and he looked at towards me and acknowledged me that what I'm saying and then he's trying to shoot but he don't have the clear vision. You can't see him clearly, you know? And he keeps running towards Roselle Street and firing in the air. He's not fighting back towards the cops anymore. He's like going forward and fighting and that's when a couple of other cops started pulling him from the other side, you know?

COOPER: So when the initial officer came on the scene, it was just one police officer in a car?

BAINS: Two.

COOPER: Two police officers.

BAINS: One officer came first. He didn't talk. He was just looking at him. And I suppose he was waiting for the other cops to come in, you know. When the second come came, he confronted the suspect.

COOPER: And how long would you say this entire exchange from the time the first police officer approached to the time he was actually apprehended, how long do you think it was?

BAINS: The second cop came one minute after the first cop, and after that, it only took -- the whole thing took maybe 30 seconds or less than 30 seconds. Because once he went towards the door, everything happened so fast, because he -- right away, he went to his gun and he started shooting. He shot two shots, and both the shots went through the glass panel, and the holes are still there. You can see, you know?

COOPER: Were you ever frightened for your safety? I mean seeing this guy who's being, you know, was wanted by police?

BAINS: I didn't knew at -- in the first minute I went there I didn't knew that he's the guy, but only when I saw his face that time, that things started like, I had a suspicion that this might be the same guy, you know?

Yes, I was like shaking a little bit, you know. When the cop pulled out his gun at that point of time, I realized that, OK, this is the guy. I'm sure this is the guy, you know?

COOPER: There's a lot of folks who are calling you a hero today. Do you feel like a hero?

BAINS: No, I'm not a hero. I'm just a regular citizen doing what every citizen should do. Whatever you see, you call the cop. Cops are the real hero. Law enforcements are the real hero, you know? COOPER: There's a lot of people, though, who, you know, have suspicions, but don't actually pick up the phone and dial the police when they have a suspicion. You did that.

BAINS: Yes, I think everybody should do. That's -- when you see something, you should say something, you know?

COOPER: Harinder Bains, it's really a pleasure and an honor to talk to you. Thank you so much for what you did. You very possibly saved a lot of people's lives. Thank you.

BAINS: Thank you. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: And as we reported earlier, the two police officers in Linden who were injured apprehending the suspect, one, we're told, Officer Angel Padilla, is going home tonight from the office. Officer Peter Hammer is being held overnight, but both seem to be are going to be able to pull through this and be OK.

Up next, we have more breaking news in the attack at a mall in Minnesota where a man stabbed 10 people before he's shot to dead by an off-duty police officer.

[21:34:59] ISIS has praised the attacker. The latest on what we know, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: At practically the same time the 29 people were being treated for injuries here in New York for the bombing in Chelsea, others elsewhere were also getting medical attention for knife wounds. Victims of an attacker at a shopping mall in St. Cloud, Minnesota.

Our breaking news tonight, we now know of 10 victims in the brazen crime, a new one just identified when police watched surveillance video. The suspect is dead. Details from Sara Sidner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Terror in the mall. Dispatchers scramble to send help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're taking reports of shots fired and then people stabbed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're sending people out to the north side of Macy's.

SIDNER: By then, 10 people had been stabbed. They all survived. The attacker did not. Shot dead by off-duty officer, Jason Falconer, who's being hailed a hero. According to the mayor surveillance video shows a customer running with children in two and then the suspect comes into frame. MAYOR DAVE KLEIS, ST. CLOUD MINNESOTA: You see him immediately lunge forward with a knife and you've seen officer fire. The suspect went down. He got back up. The officer fired again, he got back up. This was three times.

[21:39:58] SIDNER: The man responsible, 22-year-old Dahir Adan. An ISIS linked news agency tweeted he was one of their soldiers. The FBI is calling the attack a potential act of terrorism, while police are searching for more evidence of a link to ISIS.

CHIEF WILLIAM BLAIR ANDERSON, ST. CLOUD MINNESOTA POLICE: As we talk today, I don't have anything to make that connection.

SIDNER: The attacker worked as a part-time security officer and was wearing his uniform during the stabbing. He lived in this modest apartment complex.

Minnesota is home to the largest Somali population in America. Somali community leader Abdul Kulane spoke with his family and said the young man had lived in the U.S. nearly his entire life.

Was he living with his family?

ABDUL KULANE, SOMALI COMMUNITY LEADER: He was living with his parents, both parents and members of an extended family was also around, a different apartment at the same building.

SIDNER: Did they give any indication that they saw a change in him or that they noticed him watching videos or anything like that that gave him an indication that he was becoming extreme?

KULANE: They haven't told us anything about that. They were shocked, as everybody else was. And they're in disbelief that it could happen.

SIDNER: From speaking to the family, would you say that this young man had assimilated as an American?

KULANE: He was as American as everybody else is.

SIDNER: Something clearly changed him. He says their son left home saying he was going to the mall to buy an iPhone. About three hours later, his family was informed he was dead and many were wounded.

REV. JAMES ALBERTS, HIGHER GROUND CHURCH PASTOR: Terror has visited St. Cloud and it is our job as members of this community for it not to find a home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Sara Sidner joins us now from St. Cloud. There's a newly discovered 10th victim. What do we know?

SIDNER: The 10th victim didn't come to police, because he was so lightly injured. He didn't get a chance to tell them, apparently, but police found out when they went inside the mall, they started canvassing, talking to store owners and one of the owners said that yes, indeed, their employee was hurt, had minor injuries but didn't need to go to the hospital.

The good news tonight though is that all of the victims have been released from the hospital.

And lastly, I want to let you know what happened to that officer and why he was in here, you know, on his day off. The off-duty officer was inside the mall, buying a gift because it was his child's birthday. He ended up saving a lot of lives and a lot of folks here are very thankful for that. Anderson?

COOPER: Yeah, again, another heroic action by a police officer in this. Sara Sidner thanks. This kind of crime by a suspected self- radicalized individual and a so-called soft target seems to be on the rise.

With me again, CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank, co-author of "Agent Storm, My Life Inside al-Qaeda and the CIA".

I mean, look, we have seen a number of naturalized American citizens of Somali origin, most often going back to Mogadishu, elsewhere in Somali, Somalia, joining up with Al-Shabaab, I think the first in fact American suicide bomber overseas was a Somali.

CRUICKSHANK: That's right. We saw that last decade. But in more recent years, we've seen a number of individuals from the Somali community in the Minnesota area try to go and join ISIS in Syria and Iraq. It's the most significant recruitment pipeline that they've seen in the United States. There have been 11 that have been charged so far. Some actually made it all the way to join ISIS in Syria, and there's concern they've been using social media from there to connect back with radicals in the United States. But this individual seems to have been an all-American kid, well integrated. He had a job as a security officer. So we still don't know how he became radicalized.

COOPER: That -- I mean that's the thing that's so important to point out is that -- I mean, look, obviously, there's got to be tough screening of anybody coming to the United States, but so many of these attacks we're seeing in the United States are from -- and people who have even plotted attacks and been arrested are from people who grew up here, who came here as children, were, you know, raised here, lived here for 20 some of the odd years and then do this.

CRUICKSHANK: Absolutely right. We've seen a whole bunch of these kind of cases. We've also seen a significant number of converts who have got involved in trying to go off to join ISIS in Syria and Iraq or terrorism plotting as well.

But I've got to say, you know, tonight, Americans are asking, where are the trend lines going here? Are we -- is it growing more dangerous or less dangerous in the United States?

And I've got to say, the trend lines are actually have been quite encouraging this year compared to last year. We've seen a significant drop-off in the number of Americans trying to travel to join ISIS in Syria and Iraq. And we've also seen a significant drop-off in the number of Americans being charged in terrorism cases. It may not seem like it tonight ...

COOPER: Right.

CRUICKSHANK: ... but the trend lines are encouraging. ISIS, there's evidence that it's beginning to lose its luster when it comes to followers in the United States. The vast majority of American-Muslims absolutely, profoundly reject this ideology.

COOPER: Right. Paul Cruickshank thanks for being here.

Coming up, new surveillance video we've just gotten. A law enforcement official says this is the bombing suspect less than an hour before the explosion in Chelsea. The latest on that.

[21:45:00] Also ahead, the election, 50 days away. The way the candidates handle this aftermath. We'll take a look at what Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are saying.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: We got a new and exclusive look at video that a senior law enforcement official says is the bombing suspect. This is surveillance video from a local restaurant, Francisco's Centro Vasco which on 23rd Street between 6th and 7th Avenues. You can see a man -- again, a senior law enforcement official says this is the suspect dragging two duffle bags down the side walk. And this is about 7:30 Saturday night. The explosion happened about one hour later.

Now to politics and terror. The first presidential debate is one week away. The election 50 days away, it's putting even more scrutiny on what Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are saying in the wake of this weekend's bombings and bomb scares. Senior Washington correspondent Jeff Zeleny tonight reports.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: One week before their first debate, a new test for Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. Already on a collision course over who's better equipped to be commander in chief and who has better judgment. Trump quickly seizing on the Afghanistan born suspect to make an immigration argument.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me state very, very clearly, immigration security is national security.

ZELENY: Clinton accusing her rival of fueling hate. Blasting his call to ban Muslims from the U.S.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We know that a lot of the rhetoric we've heard from Donald Trump has been seized on by terrorists, in particular ISIS, because they are looking to make this into a war against Islam.

[21:50:06] ZELENY: With the election in 50 days, voters sending mixed signals on the qualities of Trump and Clinton. Asked who is a strong and decisive leader, Trump leads by eight points. As for who has the temperament to serve as president, Clinton holds a wide 20-point advantage.

Both candidates reacting in real time to fast moving developments in the bombing investigation on the streets of New York and New Jersey and in multiple stabbing at a Minnesota mall. All being investigated as acts of terror. Trump taking to Twitter, "Under the leadership of Obama and Clinton, Americans have experienced more attacks at home than victories abroad. Time to change the playbook."

At a rally today in Florida, Trump echoed the call.

TRUMP: That's all we need is four more years of Obama, except worse.

ZELENY: And Clinton delivering a pointed response to Trump for linking her and the President to attacks on the home front.

CLINTON: It's not grounded in fact it's, you know, man to make to some kind of demagogic point. And the facts are pretty clear.

ZELENY: It's an open question how the attacks and terror treats were influence the presidential race or what did they will at all. Clinton using the moment to remind voters of her experience.

CLINTON: I'm the only candidate in this race who's been part of the hard decisions to take terrorists off the battlefield.

ZELENY: Trump bluntly making the case that his message of strength is needed to meet the call for change.

TRUMP: Anyone who cannot name our enemy is not fit to lead this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Now, strength and security already pillars of this presidential campaign, now have a greater sense of urgency, Anderson, with six more days before that first presidential debate, taking place here in New York. This all will cast a, you know, a poll over how both sides prepare here. But Donald Trump, I'm told, is going to keep digging in on this and continuing to make his immigration argument including tomorrow as he campaigns in North Carolina.

Hillary Clinton for her part is basically off the campaign trail preparing for that first debate. She believes she is on the right side of the arguments on this, her experience and her strength. But Donald Trump is presenting himself as the candidate of change here, and if the electorate is fearful, the candidate of change often is the one they go with. But, Anderson, this is going to be front and center next Monday night at that debate.

COOPER: Yeah, Jeff Zeleny. Jeff, thanks very much.

Joining me now is CNN political commentator, David Axelrod, the former senior adviser to President Obama.

Two very different responses, clearly, from Clinton and Trump, how do you see this playing out over the next couple of weeks? Which response resonates more especially with the undecided voters at this point?

DAVID AXELROD, FORMER OBAMA SENIOR ADVISER: You know, first of all, one thing that I've learned over the years of being involved in these things is the next couple of weeks is an eternity, there may be intervening events, how this plays out in the next few days will determine the intensity of this discussion in the next few week.

But I think generally speaking, I'll pick up on Jeff's last point. Donald Trump's basic script is that America is kind of a dystopian Gotham City and he's Batman coming to save us from all of the bad guys. And it's a very visceral appeal. It's rooted in fear. And so when things like this happen, he's going to seize on it to make that point.

Hillary Clinton has an entirely different approach, which is to say, I've been there, I'm experienced and I have the temperament to deal with these things in a responsible way. Because this is one of the problems that Trump has faced. You get into these focus groups, and what you hear is, people worry about his temperament in dealing with these very, very sensitive grave mortal issues that president's have to face. And she's counting on people turning to her as being the more responsible of the two. And that's the way this debate is going to play out.

COOPER: Although, I mean to Jeff's point, you know, Donald Trump has the advantage of saying, "Look, people wanted change and people are fearful. If you vote for Hillary Clinton, it's going to be more of what you've had over the last eight years, "in his words, "only worse." He is the change agent, that's his line.

AXELROD: Yeah, and that's the reason why, you know, he is going to capitalize on moments like this to exploit people's fears and prop up that argument. But the question I think that he's going to have to resolve in these debates if he can -- if he can is to allay people's concern that how much change is too much change? Is Donald Trump as reactive as just we saw this weekend for example him chasing comments by Bob Gates, the former Defense Secretary highly respected guy who questioned his temperament and fitness for the office of commander-in- chief. And he responded in a very caustic almost juvenile way, and went after Colin Powell. And that is his habit.

[21:55:01] People worry about that. They worry about a guy -- it -- there's a point at which strength becomes something other than strength and it becomes reactivity in a way that makes people uncomfortable when they're thinking about a president of the United States. So he has to show in these debates that he has the temperament to handle these kinds of great responsibilities.

COOPER: You know, I mean everyone thought or a lot of people thought going into this election, Clinton's strength might be these kinds of moments, tests of national security, and yet, it's not really clear who comes out of this with, you know, with the lead politically speaking.

AXELROD: Well, and I don't think we'll know for awhile, Anderson. As you can see in these polls, they're a little muddled ... COOPER: Yeah.

AXELROD: ... in term of where people place their confidence. So I think we're going to have to wait and see how this all plays out to see who gets the upper hand.

COOPER: David Axelrod, appreciate it. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[22:00:09] COOPER: That does it for us. We'll see you tomorrow. "CNN TONIGHT" with Don Lemon starts now.